Jdsgames
Jdsgames
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Many people have taken to asking for this to be an automatic phase. This kinda takes the 'struggle' out of struggle.
@ceridwen309 @MyNamePete @Dreamnomad @edgarpoop and @Kaelum mind putting your thoughts into that thread. It is a suggestion other than removing it entirely.
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@KillermainBTWm8 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/582311#Comment_582311
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/582320#Comment_582320
Killers and survivors have a fairly even chance during this scenario imo it's based on a bit of RNG but the survivors can play 30% the gate then hide in a locker and the killer won't have time to search strat. While killer also has a chance due to perks like Whispers that will tell you if the survivor is close. As well as doing a coinflip and trying to search the locker but the survivor might be a 4head and might be opening the other gate. It's a guessing what the other will do for both sides. Both have a fair chance.
I truly think this comes down to more of a 60-40 split. At least at high ranks. Again favors survivors unless bad gate rng which happens on both sides. Although, I prefer to get back to the struggle mechanic. I am up for balance tweaks. However, I don't find it is too hard or too easy without some evidence to be valid. @KillermainBTWm8
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@Atrushan88 said:
@Jdsgames Enforcing bringing keys shouldn't be the go-to. You force that and killers will have less kills overall because they won't need to wait to be the last person, they can just do gens until the hatch spawns and open for more than one escape with less work. It's not about just the emblems, you're punishing the survivors in multiple ways just for trying to help their teammate. You're making it harder for them to help their teammate WHILE giving them negative emblems. As for the slug fest thing, that can be countered with Unbreakable. You can also run No Mither to pretty much guarantee they hook you if you wanted. If you're the last two and you want to give the last person hatch because you know they're gonna be screwed, you should have that option without so much negative impact while STILL having a worse chance of them escaping through it. That's WHY people disconnect already. I also like being able to look around while in struggle state.
A short post from a different post of mine.
EGC Balance: The only time this is in the killers favor is the following:
Gates are on the same wall. Or the angle that the gates are apart have a hill or something with clear LOS to both gate switches.
Any other time this is an L for the killer.
You have hatch: Nice we can close it but the gates are on the other side of the map. Even if it is near the gates you are now protecting two hatches that you can't prevent from being opened without seeing the survivor. As a killer you do not have time to sniff out the area you are purely stuck on focusing on the gate switch. "30% gates no lights" tactic practically means a free win. Oh did I also mention keys and the remaining chests on the map? In reality you need to be guarding three objectives otherwise you practically give a free escape.
This is one mechanic that favors the killer to at least be able to close hatch. Without needing to focus on slugging. Keys can break the game yes. However, I would prefer to see more keys and have to adapt. Rather than oh there goes another free escape.
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A short part from a previous post:
EGC Balance: The only time this is in the killers favor is the following:
Gates are on the same wall. Or the angle that the gates are apart have a hill or something with clear LOS to both gate switches.
Any other time this is an L for the killer.
You have hatch: Nice we can close it but the gates are on the other side of the map. Even if it is near the gates you are now protecting two hatches that you can't prevent from being opened without seeing the survivor. As a killer you do not have time to sniff out the area you are purely stuck on focusing on the gate switch. "30% gates no lights" tactic practically means a free win. Oh did I also mention keys and the remaining chests on the map? In reality you need to be guarding three objectives otherwise you practically give a free escape.
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@Nea_Death_Experience said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/582215#Comment_582215
Thanks for this that was actually so well explained. I find that hit well too close to home. I play snipe Billy to reduce my chases but that is good for about 2 - 3 snipes before players adapt and they dodge me and I get looped and rushed.
Okay so I opened up a post once right trying to balance killers and give them more of a buff to bloodlust. In a nutshell I thought, Bloodlust is lost slower (to stop using long walls to break chase when you are still technically be on their stirrups), Bloodlust doesn't loose all stacks after breaking a pallet (just 1 stack because chases need to finish) and vaulting speed is increased with bloodlust. Other changes not including bloodlust is windows vault 3 times even when not in a chase and they get blocked. This is the change I want. A few of my loops come down to issues closing the gap in chase (I main Pig, Billy and Myres). I actually think highly of this idea and this is what I want to come from this. But my issue is that when I did this post I got quiet a bit of support and it never went anywhere. Also if killers get this tunneling would be too easy I think.
The only changes/buffs I think would be fair on the survivor side (only if this blood lust comes through) is cleaner vaults that are harder to get hit through and killer doesn't get the noise when someone is saved from the hook unless they have make your choice.
This is what I think would fix a lot of killer looping issues. What do you think?
Vaulting is clean: Latency is the issue. When you have a 150ms ping in reality the gap between you and the killer is 300ms closer. They are 150ms farther than they seem to you. On the killer side you are 150ms closer than you really are. However, as people are ignorant this is not because 'host needs better interwebs.' Many people are capped at their highest in some areas and many places around the world have subpar standards for internet. Not to be rude or prude on the matter, however, third world countries have higher speeds than some places in the US. Let that sink in a bit. Latency also depends on distance. Even at the gigabit range try hosting a server as the killer and having the people in china connect to you. At normal base internet speeds you generally have no lower than 30ms of ping for something that is near you. Branch that out around the world with multiple people is the issue. The killer is not a dedicated server like you play on most games it is a general gaming/mid-tier tower.
Bloodlust: If the maps were balanced out this wouldn't be a thing. It was introduced due to things like infinite loops and extended chases. If the balance of all maps reflected what I experienced in the PTB we have a good chance at seeing blood lust disappear in the future. I played several killers during the ptb to get this tested out and it was surprising. No loops felt to unsafe it was an instant win. While no loops felt like I was gonna go around 6 times and still be waiting for the pallet to fall either. Again mind-game potential.
Let's look at perks. Why is PGTW around? Because kicking gens is useless. However, as a top tier killer PGTW can lead to many instant wins due to increase map mobility and pressure. The problem is general gen kicks they do practically nothing and can be reversed in a fraction of a second. Again perks being band-aid fixes and game changers should not really exist. Core-mechanics are the problem. I shouldn't have to run a perk to make a mechanic worth doing.
NOED and Adrenaline very EGC game changers. This is also the core of the 'No-Healing' meta. Why heal when the killer can't stop you from doing gens because if you leave one chase they get right on a gen. Again not healing being a thing shows the mechanics based around healing are an issue.
Gens being completed in less than 5 minutes when a chase typically takes over a minute each. Not counting animations, toolboxes, etc. Again with kicks being useless without a perk why bother stopping them? Tunnel one out and cut their efficiency, Again the ultimatum survivors who rush gens give killers.
Slugging at EGC: "Oh killer needs a 4k so I DC" - Again I have proven with the basic rules of this game this is flawed logic I will not even expand on it. Suicide on hook for a teammate. THIS IS WHY YOU ARE SLUGGED. YOU can't be trusted to stay alive for more than 10 seconds. Again another ultimatum that incentivized this way of play. The idea of giving your teammate hatch is only in reality: "screw this killers chance at winning." Something we should all really be looking at and punishing not rewarding.
EGC Balance: The only time this is in the killers favor is the following:
Gates are on the same wall. Or the angle that the gates are apart have a hill or something with clear LOS to both gate switches.
Any other time this is an L for the killer.
You have hatch: Nice we can close it but the gates are on the other side of the map. Even if it is near the gates you are now protecting two hatches that you can't prevent from being opened without seeing the survivor. As a killer you do not have time to sniff out the area you are purely stuck on focusing on the gate switch. "30% gates no lights" tactic practically means a free win. Oh did I also mention keys and the remaining chests on the map? In reality you need to be guarding three objectives otherwise you practically give a free escape.
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@Maelstrom10 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/582219#Comment_582219
If they were to do something like that I'd want them to make the struggle phase infinite or at the very least double unless everyone's hooked. However it would increase progressively over time until it is way to insanely difficult to even complete skillchecks etc.
@Maelstrom10 I originally thought the same thing. However, you got to remember newer players would die frequently that way. Gotta make a fair mechanic.
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@Atrushan88 said:
The only issue I find with this is that it already takes long enough to suicide on hook to give someone the hatch if the killer previously saw it. Adding forced skillchecks during the phase would increase that time, add to that the negative to emblems when intentionally suiciding, and you have a killer who has plenty of extra time to get to the hatch, is faster than survivors, and a survivor who tries to help his teammate losing emblems. It's a bit too much punishment all around. If you're gonna lose emblems for helping your teammate, your teammate shouldn't also be punished with you having to wait for skillchecks in order to suicide. Seems a bit too much like killer hand holding as the animation for dying is already plenty of time if the survivor isn't just standing on the hatch and it's close. If this is the case, the hatch should open the moment they die, instead of waiting for the animation to balance it out. Otherwise people will just start DCing to give someone hatch moreso than they already do.
@Atrushan88 this is an incentive to bring keys for the team. I think to compensate they can quicken the death animation since the crawl to the sky is very slow. Also the negative emblems would not be a severe penalty it is just something to make staying in the game and not leaving incentivized. The hatch only opens so quick and if the survivor is nearby they can still manage. That or once gates get rebalanced there will be that opportunity if they have not brought a key. You are not helping your teammate you are putting pressure on the killer. You want to ######### which the killer knows you are gonna do so let's have a slug fest. You hate that too don't you? You can't have the best of both worlds on it. Or as suggested they are considered dead after failing the skill checks. That is still 10 seconds which is fair game. I hope they dc after dedicated servers are implemented... Once they get punished for it enough times I see it being a 'Yeah we lost bring a key' type situation. Mechanics should not be balanced around someone disconnecting. Disconnecting should be heavily punished instead.
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@Peanits what are your thoughts on this?
I have gotten plenty of people agree on other remove struggle posts that this is way better than its current standing. This mechanic also keeps the struggle in struggle phase without being cumbersome on the user. It is fair and has rewards/detriments on both sides of it. It also makes camping early game not as worth while as you are then wasting more than 2+minutes at a hook.
@TAG @Lametart @fluffymareep @se05239 @Netharon
To name a few.
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Many people have taken to asking for this to be an automatic phase. This kinda takes the 'struggle' out of struggle.
I think this mechanic is better than simply removing it.
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Without playing a higher tier killer the average hits of a chase last anywhere from 25-45 seconds. You have two hits so a down can happen within 50-90 seconds. The lower if the killer is extremely optimal or the survivor screws up greatly.
Now let's talk about gen times 80 seconds per generator. You have 3 survivors on gens and one survivor in a chase. This means if the survivor team is optimal 3 gens are already at least at 50 seconds of charges in and almost done with three gens. If the chase lasted closer to the latter which in most cases it does 3 gens are completed. With 1 hook. Now lets give the argument that the person stayed on the hook and you opened another chase.
There are still the two survivors on gens if that chase lasts 50 seconds to the upper 90 seconds on average. You lost as killer. Most killer's are m1 with no real power to backlash back and forth. Base kicks on generators do nothing without PGTW. As several streamers like scottjund and true have said killer is STRESSFUL. The power-role of the 4v1 is the most stressed and pressured aspect of the game.
You are lucky if you can manage more than 3 hooks by EGC. Which it all comes down to how the survivors played. Even playing optimally at this point there are still plenty of pallets.
However, you can camp or tunnel two people and get a 2k and that is the balance point the devs have chosen. Hence why I have been saying it should be based on 6 hooks as a balance because that is half the survivor hooks. Equivalent to the non tunnel and camp pressure.
These gen times are also not considering where the gens are. These gens pop all over the map and most killers have to walk to each one. Which wastes even more time. This does not count toolboxes either or even a decent SWF.
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@fluffymareep said:
Can we just have the option to hold down a button instead of tapping it? Or maybe just make it a passive event. If it were passive, you would no longer be able to ######### for the last person, but you have free range to look around and maybe you could do additional things while struggling.
It is called struggle phase. I am against any form of button mashing, however, I don't really agree with having no real mechanic or thought 'just hold down x' is quite lame. @fluffymareep this mechanic keeps you on your toes a bit. Your suicide isn't instant give up you have to lose the battle to the entity. It gives killer's time to possibly give them a reason not to go full slug mode. You get a buff to deliverance and some other smaller perks. Generally an overall mechanic that makes your struggle worth something.
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@MySpaceBarsBroken said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/581586#Comment_581586
Then theres the guy who tunnels a farmed sucker and doesnt give two sh*ts about the awful experience hes forcing on them in conjunction with their farming teamate, because hes never played a game of survivor before or just doesnt care. Obviously it's always the best play to tunnel the injured guy and gamble for borrowed. But it shouldnt be allowed and should continue to be frowned upon for doing it until something is finally done to prevent it. Right? @Peanits
@MySpaceBarsBroken lets ban the killers for capitalizing on your teammate's mistake! No, if anything the prompt time for "Safe Hook Rescue" should be doubled or made until the person is healed. Another mechanic that can incentive taking time off gens. If you reach that pallet before going down boom you are considered 'Safe.'
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@Entità I know that. I was giving perspective. As I have stated several times if they balanced around 6 hooks instead of 2 kills. There wouldn't be an issue with tunneling. It simply is a matter of efficiency. Survivor's ability to complete all gens in under 5 minutes is what cause it. I am saying the extra blood points isn't gonna be worth much. This mechanic is also powered by survivors. The survivor doesn't HAVE to unhook someone. Again so you would probably really only reach 4-6 stacks in a general game. How many times does someone pull the plug on first down? There goes 2 stacks like snap.
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@Entità said:
@RoKrueger It's a win-win proposal.
@Entità not really. I generally get around 28-32k points religiously in my matches. You simply need more than a hey here is 200 points for playing nice.
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@MySpaceBarsBroken said:
No one is going to admit the latter to you. But literally 95% of killers will slug both and or rehook the same person every single time after waiting and purposely targetting the player being farmed. This is because if you unhook your teamate, you must automatically be a SWF and therefor punished by getting tunneled. Then blame the survivor for being farmed off the hook in front of him. Killer logic
@MySpaceBarsBroken I hate to break it to you... Read the rest of the tread we have no problem admitting we will take advantage of a hook farm. However, "Oh they unhook must be swf" is a lie as well. However, who decided to unhook after being hit by the killer without borrowed time? Not the killer he/she is just the one swinging.
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Yes, there are several times my swings have auto adjusted to something else and I would sit there like "Ya thanks game" Yes, as I was attempting to circle around the barrel I really wanted to just give it a nice smack.
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@kamisen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/581505#Comment_581505
@Jdsgames Whoa whoa whoa buddy - you never save a person if they're playing Nea or Meg?
This came from quite a funny situation when trying to rank up during the season. Where every time we had a good match going it would be completely destroyed by either a farming nea/meg or a sandbag that caused us an early death. So the rule of thumb was nea/meg is left to die unless they did good during the match. However, we would always save dwights/fengs as they were our main. Even if it lead to self-sacrifice. We both hit R1 perkless as survivor and killer so rank/pips didn't really matter. We just prefer to get out of crappy ranks/players. @kamisen
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@martin27 ah PC is different. You can name change like every 10 seconds.
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@Peanits said:
I don't mean to be the bearer of bad news, but #4 almost certainly will not happen. Bloodpoint gains are disabled in KYF for a very good reason, and enabling them isn't very likely. It would likely just result in a bunch of people farming for bloodpoints for hours on end, which isn't fun for anyone and is just going to cause people to burn themselves out more than anything.
We are taking a look into the grind and seeing how we can lessen it, though.
Point #1: There should be No reason blood points are limited. Think about any RPG esk game or most any grind esk games. You grind up until a maximum which is generally like a java/whatever programming limit. 999,999,999 money/points. I can understand a cap of 100 million I really can but nothing less.
Point #2: I did see Rank Incentives on the Road Map so I do figure at some point Devotion will be meaningful.
Point #3: I think 10k/field is fair. That means you cap at 40k rather than 32k. This doesn't impact the game too much as killer or survivor. If you do more gens/chases you at least don't get the "Get screwed it is worthless." There have been games as survivor that the killer ignored me and went after someone else so I was stuck on gens. That or vice versa they simply kept going after me and I couldn't do gens. A balance at making either chase/repair worth the same is nice.
Point #4: No, just no.
Point #5: No, just no. Raising blood points by 100% or more is not reasonable. I really do suggest changing starting any character at tier-3 of their specific perks. So dwight instantly has tier 3 Bond, Leader, and Prove Thyself. That way each character has a unique start. Splinters: I would make them purple tier, however, instead of playing the killer with 0 perks. I would allow them to have their tier 3 of their specific perks. This allows you to test the perks and killer in gameplay. A try before you buy. However, you also get to attempt adept achievements and things that are currently locked behind pay walls. To mitigate the bloodweb problem I would just cut prices a bit. I would also force prestige on killers/survivors that are not prestige III. This puts a value to splinters and makes things cheaper overall. This saves 6 perk buys off every character which decreases the grind a lot. Including a slight decrease makes it more affordable.
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@martin27 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/581495#Comment_581495
I'm a switch but i've never seen that happen.
Oh trust me it happens. @martin27 people hold grudges in this game. Do you ever consider why the toxic ones change their name soo much? It is so they can't be recognized instantly. When I swf we have a thing we never save Megs/Neas when they are randos. Simply because when we play solo they are our two biggest problems. I also play at the same rank I kill. The same times the same people. It happens. I have already been left on the hook or bond/obo sandbagged for 'revenge' because I rekt them as a killer.
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@Peanits said:
I make a point out of it and tell them no. Head shake and all. One hit as they're unhooking, a second after they finish unhooking, I've still got someone on the hook. Generally I'll just let the other guy go unless they're ridiculously bold and immediately try to farm the other guy back.
@Peanits I will be 100% honest with you if I get farmed by you without borrowed. You bet your sweet ass I will return the same gesture. Survivors that don't like me from my domination as killer want to not heal me and instead t-bag ontop of me. You bet I don't even attempt to get them off the hook. This game at its core has the survivors ability to play selfish and cut-throat. I like Dwight's perk bond: "We have to work as a team, I need you to survive so that I can survive!" — Dwight Fairfield If you are working against me in a match you might as well be the killer.
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@Boosted_Dwight said:
I slug the unhooked survivor then chase the unhooker. Then I hook them both >:D
Well, I mean if they made that type of play like "Ha ha screw you killer I am gonna save anyway" Yeah this is how it normally goes.
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@wichael_wyers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/580441#Comment_580441
Although I pretty much agree with Jdsgames as far as yes, this is a game where if you're slugged for awhile, it's on your teammates' hands (whether they wanna help you or not) and I do believe you shouldn't have a reason to DC in a game. You just play the game. It's oh well if you're slugged. That's just my opinion, but I see some validity to what Rakim is saying. I'm not entirely sure the definition of what holding a game hostage is, but what about killers who genuinely slug a whole team just to wait for them to die? Is that an okay thing to do? I usually just AFK when that happens (which only happened to me maybe 2-3 times really), but is that an okay thing for a killer to do? I'm just wondering genuinely, because I've never been clarified if it is allowed or not. It's particularly annoying as hell, but again, I just "play" the "game" (that doesn't exist in that case lol).
@wichael_wyers now I always fight logically.
Slugging is not bannable as it is an inteded game mechanic.
Disconnects frequently are also bannable! As well as hacking and exploiting.
So any logic behind "Oh disconnecting is strategic play" is simply just wrong. They wouldn't ban for it if they wanted it in their game. People also need to understand what "Taking the game hostage" means. You will bleed out the game will end it is not a hostage situation. Here is an example of a hostage situation.
That last survivor is crouched in the corner. The killer walks up and blocks them in. The killer then proceeds to go downstairs get a soda, eat dinner, take a shower, and go to bed. The survivor could not do anything to escape the match naturally and was forced to disconnect. That is taking the game hostage.
Here is a second example of taking the game hostage: The survivors did not attempt to touch any gens and proceeded to urbanly evade around for an hour making no attempt at completing the objective. The killer not wishing to play hide and seek has to disconnect to get into a normal match.
Another example of taking the game hostage. Infinite mending legion blades. The legion proceeded to frenzy everyone and never made any attempts to hook. As there was no way to leave the game and the killer was not attempting to kill anyone as they were able to and forced the survivors to disconnect.
Slugging the entire survivor team will cause them to bleed out in a few minutes. This is again a crappy way to even pip so it is only a loss from the killer's perspective. However, you do not need to disconnect to leave the match.
However, on a side note there should be a concede button. This would be for times that survivors get stuck into a wall and the killer can't do anything to down them. This way if both parties agree the game can just end with the points they have.
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@Milo said:
That's even worse.
I agree think of 3 people being left you being chased one on the hook. "God damn that other survivor is useless" to only find out they pulled the plug 20 seconds into the match.
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@slipttees said:
two more survivor gestures would be welcome.
@slipttees another nice suggestion maybe give like the 1-9 slots that are customizable. @Peanits this is also a good suggestion if the animations between vaults and stuff were all apart of an animation customization set. Then even though you couldn't do 1001 vault animations you make up for the 1001 emotes that you could then have.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/581296#Comment_581296
What if they are set to invisible on Twitch? What if they just use Twitch in an incognito window or log out?
We'd basically be going off of, "You had perks that counter that guy's build, you're banned." If that sounds ridiculous, it's because it would be.
@Peanits I did like the suggestion above to just hide the names. As a killer you can't go to the twitch stream till after the game. As a survivor sniping you can't tell who the killer is by looking at someone's stream unless you are in a swf and all the outfits match. Which even then is not always gonna be accurate. I would also BAN the use of MLGA it simply is being used to block certain players or figure out your killer. It is no longer used for "I need a ping meter"
As a streamer you can look at the survivors then and then leave the character sheet or something open where it blocks the survivor. So even then they wouldn't know. Something is better than nothing.
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@Peanits said:
I've always thought that having different moris available would be interesting. It might spice up mori games a bit.
Vaulting animations are a little bit different- I'm not sure how possible that would be. To give an example, having Tapp dive through the window and roll out of it would cause issues with other animations. You would need to regain control at the same time as a regular fast vault, so the roll would have to be incredibly fast to make it work. You'd also need to regain control in the exact same place as you normally would, so the roll would have to end about two feet away from the window (would look silly). There's also a little bit more to it than just dropping a new animation in, animators would have to go through and make sure the new animations transition into the other animations smoothly.
There's also an issue with hitboxes in that regard. When he dives through the window and rolls, he would be very low to the ground. You'd have two choices here: Make the hitbox smaller (pay to win), or keep the hitbox the same (would cause some wonky looking hits). To give an example of the latter, the huntress would be able to throw a hatchet through the window and hit the area three feet above him.
On a related note, being able to judge whether or not you can get a hit is important. Having different animations could make that tricky. If you dive through a window and roll, for example, the dive would likely be faster than a typical vault to give the roll some time. Even if the hitboxes are exactly the same, it would not line up visually and make it hard to judge a hit.
That's not to say that it would be impossible, but we would have to be very careful with it.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/580816#Comment_580816
These, for example, are pretty safe. They could very easily line up with the original animations. The only issue I can see here though is that sooner or later (probably sooner), you're going to run out of ways to animate vaulting through a window while still following all the rules. These are different enough from the originals, but could we possibly think of dozens more to warrant making a huge change? (Genuine question, I don't do parkour, maybe one of you can fill me in on the 1001 ways to jump through a window.)
@Peanits I agree with you fully on this. However, even if there were only like 2/3 animations it is different. Slight adjustments that allow some 'customization' that makes things look normal. Think of it like freddy hopping up on the window. The animation is different but the same concept. That or just put a disclaimer that the hitbox is still the same even with the animation since you don't want to encourage PTW. Maybe they could instead of an actual vault the running vault be a front flip or back flip over it. Again similar animation they are still landing in the right spot. It doesn't change that drastically. We don't need 1001 animations. a few variations would be nice. You would also have Slow, Medium, and Fast vaults which allows for slower animations like trying to turn sideways and walk over it for a slow vault.
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@Karl_Childers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/580770#Comment_580770
What I am saying though is I don’t necessarily care that much if the fair, but struggling, killer gets NOED. Expecting 3 survivors to cleanse dull totems while a killer is camping is just nonsense, sorry. So if you were on the hook against a facecamper, and the others were running around the map looking for totems, you’d be good with that and not complaining that they are idiots? I find that hard to believe. Every second not on a gen against that basement Leatherface is a win for him. They should make a requirement that has to do the chaser penalty or something....you get penalized for camping, you can’t get NOED. I don’t know, just something.
One person has to run it out of 16 perks. Do them as you do gens. 95% of the time they are not hard to find. @Karl_Childers that person just has to play stealthy and nab them. Then try hard the gens. No NOED ever.
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@Karl_Childers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/580677#Comment_580677
I’m not following how anything you said counters my argument? Are you disagreeing? When anyone complains about camping, literally 99% of people, including killer mains, will respond “just do gens”...aka rush the main objective to punish them. If you can’t do the counter to NOED, then the killer shouldn’t be able to get it. Simple.
Well, in part if the killer is say for example leather face in the basement. You have 3 minutes to get the gens done and totems. You can do that simply quite quickly. Totems can be stealthy taken out while the killer patrols looking for someone. If totems are broken before someone is found the time the match lasted does not effect you. Rushing to gens does. However, a killer playing fair and a killer camping both get rushed. Again the only time a camping killer wins is if the survivors play into it.
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I mean as a killer side if you know the survivor is stream sniping you just lobby dodge. However, put a good 5-7 second delay on your stream. If they start going to the places you were not where you are at it is a good sign.
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@Karl_Childers said:
NOED just needs some type of requirement on the killer’s end. It really makes no sense that a camper should be able to get it to proc. People say cleansing totems is the counter to NOED, but rushing gens is the counter to camping. Do we not see the issue here?!
@Karl_Childers Killers are suppose to keep survivors pressured. Multiple survivors can work on multiple generators all around the map. Killers can only for the most part pressure one survivor at a time. Therefore gen rushing does not counter camping it counters killers pressure. See the problem there? A perk like PGTW shouldn't be needed when the mechanic itself is weak. The only one at the core that is under pressure is the killer. Unless you are top tier killers ie Nurse/Spirit/Billy. That or you have potato teammates that do not know how this game works.
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@BBQnDemogorgon said:
The Plague
Imagine being chased by a 7 foot tall woman puking at you then you start dying from the plague.
You have to hide and fix generators while dying from a devastating sickness knowing that the crazy lady is after you.
You couldn't even trust your friends because they could be infected. If they save you you're killing them by giving them a fatal illness if the big lady doesn't first.
If you try to cure yourself she can use your sickness to turn her puke into acid she'll use to burn you alive.
Yeah, I would actually have to agree with you on that one... @Bbbrian2013
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@Lametart and @Heru_Ra_Ha numbers were adjusted.
Also to Heru as a killer you want the person to remain on the hook. That is one less person on gens. That might be slightly longer you have during a chase to get another one. Although, playing nurse you probably don't need this LOL.
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@Nea_Death_Experience said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/580639#Comment_580639
So I think you might have latched on to half the arguement and whole I agree with your noed stuff this perk does still meet my points as well. Also I also discuss tunneling/camping and how this also Grant's reward and points for taking the easy way.
That half I can argue with logically. However, as far as tunneling goes... It is a needed evil in some cases. As it has already been proven gens can be done in under 5 minutes. It is well easier to remove someone early and spare yourself more time. Think of it as if you are running and I cut your leg off. You can't run as effectively. So it really is a tactic to slow the game down from the killer's perspective. However, I would prefer the balance point to be 6 hooks not 2 kills since they are drastically different points of balance. Camping, any time other than end game is honestly just not feasible so I really can't argue it. However, noed is rewarding survivor laziness for not doing totems. Camping at EGC is fine since there is not much else you can do without having some form of instant down as a killer. Unless survivors really and I mean really screw things up. @Nea_Death_Experience
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@Yamaoka said:
Honestly I would probably be scared enough to be unable to move regardless of which killer it is. Just look at any killer objectively and tell me there's one that wouldn't scare you to death.
Let's go into detail in terms of your described scenario. You're out in the woods at night. It's dark and the area is widely open with loads of trees, fog and there's nothing to defend yourself. You already feel vulnerable. All of a sudden:
- you see Hillbilly sprinting through the fog right at you fast like a car and he wants to kill you with a chainsaw which seems is a gruesome way to die. I would probably die of a heart attack before he gets me.
- you see Trapper placing a bear trap. As soon as he notices you he starts powerwalking after you menacingly wielding his cleaver. There's tall grass everywhere and you KNOW he's been spending an unknown period of time placing said traps everywhere. You know those traps will tear your legs apart but at the same time you know so will he if he catches you.
- you notice Wraith (cloaked) running in your direction. His ability is supernatural and thus naturally scares you as you can't tell just what this "creature" is capable of. Since he's "kind of" invisible you can barely tell where he is while running from him. Everything's dark and foggy. You try and hide in a corner (like a rank 20 survivor using urban evasion) when suddenly a bing bong sound breaks the silence and he windstorms at you swinging his spine weapon.
I reckon I'll stop here as it'd take all day to describe all the other killers and most people wouldn't read it anyways haha. Kinda wish there were more cinematics in the game.
Can't wait for the archives!
@Yamaoka please continue.
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@Nea_Death_Experience said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/580638#Comment_580638
Not really. You can also be outclassed by swf. You cant say a rank 14 is playing poor vs a rank 1 in swf. You can argue this point with "leave chase etc" but they might not know to do that yet
I mean the fact as killer you would have to leave a chase is quite proving how much of a power role the survivor is. @Nea_Death_Experience
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@Nea_Death_Experience said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/580621#Comment_580621
Disregarding your attempt at being patronizing rushing the point is the problem. Bad luck, mind games, having one hooked already. These are some ways this happens. I often just leave if they have noed and only let it be a 1k but I've seen others go for the hook because swf and just needing points for pip.
Your entire poi t is "this shouldn't happen" when my point is "this can and does happen". I just want everyone to get along around this topic and stop flaming noed killers.
See, I understand your point at which 'You need these points for a pip', however, the points you got from unhooking was just taken away against your unbroken and your benevolence since they just got back down without a heal. So it is like killing your chicken for meat instead of cooking an egg. You tried to gain a little bit and lost a lot.
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@Blue_Diamond said:
Go into your car. Turn on the engine. Roll down the window. Stick your arm out. You can do this because there is an empty space where the window is. The killer can do this too.
@Blue_Diamond go downstairs... Get your reading glasses... Put them on... Take a moment to read the thread before replying to it with a smug comment... Because that is not what she is referring to what they are pointing out is latency hits. Which is a client and host matter.
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i thought the latest patches adjusted the window hits so they didn’t seem so late. But in fact they seem to be even worse on ps4.
@Sleephartha you have to see how this works in the client to host relationship. On the client side their client has 0 ping to itself. Although, you traveled out the window your data still has to be sent to the host which is the killer. The killer or 'the host' determines if you got hit. On your side you are just getting the data of the killer getting closer to the vault. At that time the killer has probably already swung at you and didn't get the update that you are away from the window. It is latency. On the killer side most hits at windows are really clean. While some are even misses as you are still vaulting it on the host's end.
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Also in addition to what I had said above. You also need to allow the killer to hit you. If you just leave NOED = 1k at max. Instead of risking it for 1 hook and allowing the killer to get 6 more. At the heart of it just leave they lose more in the long run. @Nea_Death_Experience
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@Nea_Death_Experience said:
@Jdsgames fair points but killers still pop through this because it preys on survivors needing to pip. With competeting to get enough points to pip often altruism is needed so they go for the save and with noed tunneling the killer can often get multiple hooks. Sometimes you think it's safe to have the killer yeet out of nowhere and give you the left, right, goodnight.
I agree with you. But I dont think it is as punishing as you think it is. Plus I main Billy and I pip with him and I try only chainsaw.
I do understand that you can still pip due to it. However, your argument is that bad players who rely on it shouldn't pip up or get as rewarded from the sacrifices. However, try to only get 6 hooks as billy 2 during game play and 4 kill them off. No chainsaws other than that. You will see it severely effects your emblems. If you get several instant downs all game multiple hooks it does balance itself out. I do also know it preys on altruism, however, they now reward you more for doing totems as a survivor. Not only that the person being chased also gets emblem points for it too. Whenever the killer has noed it is always best to just nab the totem. However, at the same exchange as it has been compared to several times as adrenaline since they both are counter crutches of each other. They should lose points for escaping. However, weighting any perk of the game to negatively impact you is not my idea of a 'perk.' Like think of it as a Job perk your perks are not suppose to hinder you.
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Hey, although, your idea is nice... It is already implemented in a similar fashion. Look at any instant down killer their chaser and other emblems take a hit specifically because they instantly end chases. Any form of instant-down or quick removal has been heavily hit against. On a side note did you know that a spirit using her power counts as losing chase? NOED is an instant down it counts for half as many chases. Not only that if you only get the 4 hooks even though it is a 4k you still might only black pip because multiple hooks is required to pip well. @Nea_Death_Experience
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@[Deleted User] said:
I like the mechanic but I do not like the extratime as it will keep others on gens and there is no reason for the others to stop doing what they are doing cause they get extra time.
The mechanic is there since there is a penalty for missing a skill check as well.
-Snip- Jdsgames night time math was a bit off.
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@Captain_Doomsday said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/579206#Comment_579206
Like gen skill checks, I think they should be at random interverals with a minimum time between them, rather than every 5 seconds, and adding new punishments for emblems would cause a lot of backlash.
Though I still support anything other than the mash system.
I don't like random intervals. I was able to do two gens under ruin because there was no skill checks. @Captain_Doomsday also the emblem punishment is for when you miss these basic skill checks. Again trying to suicide in game should be punished in a sense even minor. You are going against the SURVIVOR's objective. (To Survive)
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@Nescau_Fernando said:
Current version of Ebony Mori is still broken, but I don't want BVHR to completely remove it from the game.
My suggestions:
Cipress mori - disable the offering, make it baseline instead.
Ivory mori - change it from rare to very rare.
Ebory mori - nerf it: "Grants the ability to kill two Survivors who have been hooked by your hand during the next trial".
Cipress as baseline is alright.
Ivory doesn't need a rarity change. - One person isn't that bad.
Ebony Mori: Drop the hook requirement make it ultra rare and can only be used on two survivors. You can't get mori'd if you don't get downed.
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@RakimSockem said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/580441#Comment_580441
@Jdsgames I'd rather not waste a perk slot for a perk I may not even get to use if I don't get slugged. No thanks.
And you asked whose fault is it if I get slugged? literally the killer's fault XD
So by your logic: A killer should lag switch or hack if the survivors are doing good because it is the survivors fault? Hmm perks that may not always be used: A few come to mind... Dying Light, Noed, Deliverance, No mither, unbreakable, decisive strike, etc. Who's fault is it that you are on the ground? Apparently you got caught. Being slugged means your teammate is not healing you back up. Therefore who's fault is it really? I will just leave it at that. It is clear it is an ignorance situation. Hopefully when dedicated servers and they actually punish for your behavior we will see less of your slimy tactics.
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@RakimSockem said:
I'm not encouraging DC'ing at all.
I literally just said it's something I do because I'd rather not lay on the ground bleeding out for 10 minutes while the killer plays hide and seek, trying to get a 4k.
Nice try though XD
I'm under no obligation to stay in a match where I literally can't do anything and am holding my teammate back
@RakimSockem I am not sure how familiar you are with the game. Unbreakable comes to mind? If you got slugged and can't do anything who's fault is it? You have a bleed out timer so simply bleed out. Punish the killer by moving somewhere. Your teammate in many cases can pick you up from a safe spot.
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@RakimSockem said:
I've done this plenty of times. If someone is gonna slug and leave me someone bleeding out on the floor for like 10 minutes, I'd rather leave the game and deny the 4k, tbh.
I get it if you down someone and then you SEE the last person or know where they are because they missed a skill check. But slugging someone and then spending 3 minutes playing hide and seek is just petty and I'm not about that life. No thanks. I'll lose my bloodpoints and let the other person get out
Again DCing is not a mechanic of what the game considers gameplay. They attempt to punish it by every means. So you either should stop abusing this functionality or any others that make you 'lose' your connection. Or simply don't play? Get good comes to mind? I get occasional rage quits, however, it is blatant ignorance at this point.
Edit: Generally most dc's either screw the survivor team over or ruin the pressure the killer has at a particular time. Again possibly ruining the fun for another player. It should not be rewarded.