Nescau_Fernando
Nescau_Fernando
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- Nescau_Fernando
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Screwed up my vote as well. 4/10 in a standard 1 out 10 scale. In TC's scale, that would be a 6/10.
Anyway, this is how I see your scale:
1 (Best) - Nurse and SWF with voice comms
2 - Spirit and SWF without voice comms
3 - Billy/Hag and 4 good solo queue Survivors
4 to 6 - Mid Tier Killers
7 to 9 - Low Tier Killers
10 - Complete garbage (for example, Ghostface when it first appeared on PTB)
Billy is a gorgon with a one-shot and better mobility on most maps, so Demo is definitely no High Tier. On the other hand, Demo has map pressure unlike most Low Tiers so its hard to justify it being 7 to 9.
Mid Tier Freddy has a better teleport and move versatility - choosing snares or pallets - than gorgon. Therefore, Freddy is either 4 or 5 and Demo should be 5 or 6 depending on Freddy's placement. Because Survivors can find and deactivate the portals fairly easily, I'm leaning towards a 6.
IMO, 2.5 would be the ideal balance for a Killer. Demo has a long way to go.
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Surprised to see the one-shot suggestion being this unpopular. With proper adjustments, it would make mediocre Demogorgon much closer to Billy's power level, which many (myself included) consider to be the closest to ideal. An alternative Billy more geared towards indoor maps would be a great thing to have.
It would also be great to face more Demos as a Survivor. Demo was released very recently and is already shaping up to be another Clown/Plague in terms of popularity. :/
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That was a refreshingly civil response, specially for an unpopular opinions thread. Here are my answers:
1 - F2P model doesn't necessarily earn less money. Compared to the traditional monetization model (20 to 60 dollar main game + 5 to 20 dollar expansions), F2P has focus on selling cosmetics and speeding up some of the grind (in DBD's case, paying for a character instead or grinding shards). It tends to earn less from dedicated hardcore grinders, but a lot more from casuals and whales.
Upon gaining independence from Starbreeze, Behaviour started to change DBD's monetization from traditional to F2P model. Problem is we currently have the bad things of both models (base game price + agressive monetization) and few to none of the good things (full content access + free access). The grind (lack of full content access) was always there indeed, which is why this have always had a foot in F2P territory to begin with. BTW, I'm OK with grind (needs to be reduced, though) and cosmetic store (cosmetics could be a lot better, though); it's the access price that IMO needs to go.
2 - I don't think there is a disagreement here, but rather different concepts of "casual". To me, casual is any player who is not going to be a hardcore DBD competitor, regardless of being a non-gamer normie or a gamer who will play DBD at intermediate level or below.
3 - I believe fun and skillful stealth competition is possible against Nurse. The Survivor needs positioning and awareness, as well as the choice of where and if to run or not. Nurse needs to find clues of the Survivor's position (generator's worked on, scratch marks, crow alerts, sounds etc.) and decide where to focus her rotating blinks. Nurse can eventually find the Survivor and will score a down quickly, but the skill matter here is how much of the Killer's time the Survivor wasted. When playing as or against Nurse, I experienced the above situation many times and it was fun/skillful, so I want this to be more common. In other words, I want more balanced/back-and-forth stealth gameplay and less of the extreme cases (no stealth at all or full immersion).
5 - Yeah, Billy in particular deserves better. Not only better cosmetics, but a base appearance upgrade would be nice.
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Oh boy, here we go...
I) DBD SHOULD BECOME FREE TO PLAY: It already has a F2P level of grind, F2P level of bugs, a cosmetic store featuring inflated prices and a predatory premium currency, as well as a lot of gameplay related DLC you can pay not to grind for, not to mention the soon to arrive battle pass. It has all the bad aspects of F2P, but not the good part (being, you know, free).
II) LICENSE BAD, ORIGINAL GOOD: Licensed characters can't be acquired by Iridescent Shards, have limitations regarding their cosmetics and attract a casual crowd that is likely to complain about "Killers being OP". Also, for some reason, no licensed Killer has ever been high tier, which contributes to my pessimism.
III) NURSE IS BALANCED AND HEALTHY FOR THE GAME: Nurse is strong during chases, but bad against stealth. Since most Nurse builds use 3 anti-stealth perks, it's not reasonable for Survivors to beat her if they are using an anti-chase loadout instead of multiple stealth perks. Survivors complain about Nurse because they want to beat her at chases. Instead, they should first change the meta to stealth/immersion, then ask devs for stealth buffs in case that is not enough. Second point: Nurse and SWF are hand-to-hand degenerates; you can't nerf one without touching the other.
IV) SPIRIT HAS NO WEAKNESS, AND THAT NEEDS TO CHANGE: While Nurse has a superior chase power, Spirit is strong against both stealth and chases. Spirit has a smaller terror radius and can approach while invisible while at the same time being virtually "unloopable". The so called "mind games" are not about outsmarting the opponent, but rather a guessing game for the Survivor.
V) SURVIVOR COSMETICS ARE TERRIBLE (Not sure if unpopular): I have never seen a tackier, gaudier, kitschier cosmetic selection in my life. Subjective? Yes, but don't forget that grandma looking cool while wearing kindergarten clothes is also an opinion. Yikes. Also, give us a handsome non-licensed male Survivor.
VI) NOED IS A FAIR PERK THAT HELPS WEAKER KILLERS THE MOST: Nurse can down you in less than 15 seconds regardless of NOED, Spirit will continue to have not counters even without NOED, Billy had a one-shot on demand. Meanwhile, weak M1 Killers with no one-shot ability, like Wraith or Pig, greatly benefit from it. 1 Killer perk should be equivalent to 1 Survivor perk x 4, Hex perks should be stronger than normal perks and perks that activate only at the end game should be stronger than those that are always active. Given all those conditions, an end game hex perk should be powerful and have a strong comeback factor.
VII) "THE GAME" IS A HEAVILY SURVIVOR-SIDED MAP: Except for Nurse, Killers have trouble patrolling two floors and dealing with endless safe pallets. A single Survivor can waste a lot of the Killer's time without even resorting to looping. Just drop the pallet right away, you will find a lot of safe ones. The reason many teams lose on this map brings me to my next point.
VIII) RUIN AND INSIDIOUS HAVE POWERFUL PSYCHOLOGICAL EFFECTS: Ruin can powered through and not represent a significant obstacle if Survivors don't waste time looking for the totem. Likewise, Insidious is a weak perk if the hooked Survivor accepts to patiently wait for death while wasting the Killer's time. Things is, these things generally don't happen. Survivors will become exasperated from repairing with Ruin and look for totems and there is a good chance for the hooked Survivor to suicide on the hook instead or dying a slow death. These two perks are not great for their programmed gameplay effect, but because they make Survivors play badly due to their emotional state.
I would also talk about how Balanced Landing is often a win-more perk or how the new Freddy is still not that good, but this post is getting too long already. :P
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Just having the option to select any Killer in the tutorial would already help a lot.
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I remember back in the day Dwight was considered bad because of his perks. Turns out Bond was always a strong and fair perk. Sprint Burst, Self-Care, Botany Knowledge and Saboteur were just broken beyond belief.
I remember Billy being bottom tier because infinites and the sheer number of obstacles on the map.
I remember Nurse release day. Hexy (former SxyHxy) had orgasms on stream...LOL. And Nea was a considered a mediocre Survivor.
Remember how Trapper could keep dropping a downed Survivor directly in the bear trap? Remember double trap right below the hooked Survivor? Man, those were some trappy times.
Lots of good memories. Even looking back at some bad times, this was easily one of my most played games this gen.
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Vigil should allow exhaustion to recover while running.
Yeah, yeah...recovering from exhaustion while running was OP as a baseline ability, but would it really be too much if it took a perk slot?
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As long as devs don't change their mindset about Feral Frenzy not being able to down Survivors, any sort of rework is a waste of time and resources better used elsewhere (buffing perks that need just a little push to become meta, giving some add-ons the Brutal Strength treatment etc.).
Feral Frenzy could literally be a Thanos snap that caused all Survivors to be instantly injured and Legion would still be low tier: being a no power M1 Killer for the downing hit is that bad.
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Mettle of Man 3.0 - Whenever you rescue a Survivor from a Hook, unlock the ability to heal yourself without a Med-Kit for 60/75/90 seconds at 125% the normal Healing speed.
In addition to that, We'll Make It QOL change/Buff - 60/75/90 second duration (up from 30/60/90 seconds).
Inspired by a comment made by another user in the other MoM thread, I would change MoM to a self-healing version of We'll Make It. IIRC, 125% would mean the same healing speed as the yellow med kit (IMO: fair and good, but not broken).
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My Killer & Survivor combined Tier List:
High - Claudette (SWF voice comms), Nurse, Claudette (Solo) = Spirit, Old Legion (Frank's Mixtape), Hillbilly, Hag
Mid - Old Legion (Moonwalking), Ghostface, Huntress, Myers
Low - New Freddy, Plague, Leatherface, Wraith, Clown, Pig, Trapper, Doctor, New Legion, Old Freddy.
Some explanations:
1 - All characters being played optimally. That means "Claudette" represents 4 top Survivor players playing against a top Killer player.
2 - Claudette is the only Survivor listed because she is the hardest to spot and therefore the best Survivor "skin". Claudette (hardest Survivor to spot) > Ace (hardest Survivor to hear/ "build-in Iron Will tier 1") > other female Survivors > other male Survivors.
3 - Old Legion and Old Freddy included for fun. Teehee.
4 - Still early to judge New Freddy. So far seems better than before, but IMO not by much.
5 - All characters are judged by the No Heal Meta standards.
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Still early for Freddy's placement. First impression is that he is better than before, but not enough to move a tier.
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Completely agree with decreasing the charge time to 2 seconds. Doesn't seem much on paper, but it would actually help a lot.
And to be honest, I would like the perk to have a normal 60/50/40 second cooldown rather than exhaustion.
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Camping is not against the rules and more often than not benefits the Survivor side by giving the other players either a free escape or tremendous gen progress. From a balance perspective, I would say there's a good relation between risk and reward.
That said, the hooked Survivor should totally get bloodpoints when camped, as reward for keeping the Killer occupied.
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Legion rework, by far. Crazy running speed, smooth fast vaults, the choice between risky Feral cancel for an early down vs slower but guaranteed moonwalking cheese, overall relaxing gameplay. Not only the most fun Killer ever created, but also the one that gave Survivors a bit of a taste of their own stressful/annoying medicine.
Imagine a rework that kept his speed and lethality, but added a higher skill requirement. For example, I would like moonwalking to be integrated as a special ability, making the deep wound meter deplete as if not in a chase, at the cost of some tracking restrictions (camera restrictions, inability to see scratch marks and bloodstains etc). Alternatively, implementing both the meter pause while inside terror radius and the power depletion on missed hit, as well as removing Feral Frenzy tracking, but allowing Legion to score two hits on the second Feral Frenzy activation, giving them the ability to down a Survivor with two power activations. I could list possibilities all day, and none of those include making Legion such a boring M1 Killer when it comes to downing Survivors. Oh Behaviour, do your fans a favor and never make a normal speed M1 Killer again, ever.
HONORABLE MENTION: Healing cube. IMO, the solution was worse than the problem. With the no heal meta, Survivor gameplay became more gen-centered while Killer time became much tighter.
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Current version of Ebony Mori is still broken, but I don't want BVHR to completely remove it from the game.
My suggestions:
Cipress mori - disable the offering, make it baseline instead.
Ivory mori - change it from rare to very rare.
Ebory mori - nerf it: "Grants the ability to kill two Survivors who have been hooked by your hand during the next trial".
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Would be great if BHVR made a patch focused on menu/lobby QOL. 5 second cooldown after leaving lobby, 10 second loading screen when Killer leaves at the results screen, lack of requeue option at the results screen, lack of auto-requeue when a problem happens (lobby no longer available, "NAT" problem, match cancelled etc.), lack of an option to disable bloodweb lvl 50 warning, lack of an option to speed up the bloodweb even further, lack of an option to automatically leave lobbies depending on ping and many other annoying little things that could be reworked to greatly smooth out the navigation.
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@Acesthetiic Hag gets even better using NOED!
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(Ruin/BBQ/Enduring/Spirit Fury) for Trapper, Wraith, Hillbilly, Myers, Doctor, Leatherface, Freddy, Pig, Clown, Legion, Plague and Ghostface.
(Ruin/BBQ/Sloppy Butcher/Infectious Fright) for Nurse.
(Ruin/Sloppy Butcher/ MYC/NOED) for Hag.
(Ruin/BBQ/Sloppy Butcher/NOED) for Spirit.
(Ruin/BBQ/X/X) for Huntress. Since BHVR recently changed lullaby to be non-directional, I have been trying different builds for her. Too early for me to choose a favorite build.
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Identity V Survivors each have unique abilities and play a certain role in the team, making their gameplay a lot more diverse than DBD. There are some cool abilities I would love to see adapted DBD as new perks: the Cowboy's lasso allowing you to rescue another Survivor from a distance, Magicians power to become temporarily invisible, Mechanic's ability to control a life-size doll that breaks in one hit and maybe even the Coordinator's Flare Gun. That said, they would all have to be heavily rebalanced and come with many restrictions.
Some Hunters, like Soul Weaver and Feaster, have interesting abilities that could inspire future DBD Killers. Universal Hunter skills, like Blink and Teleport, could become DBD perks and help weaker Killers with some of their issues.
There's also a visual cue before a skill check, which would be much appreciated here.
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This game already has major free-to-play elements such as the extreme grind, a cosmetic store featuring standard and premium currency, slow character unlocking system that pushes players towards instant access purchases and events to promote new cosmetics, not to mention the upcoming "battle pass".
Other than zeroing the base game price, the only thing they need to become a full-fledged free-to-play game is a "founder's pack" to give players access to all current and future original characters.
Personally wouldn't mind if DBD went free-to-play, but I'm probably in the minority here. :/
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@AshleyWB said:
When you want major buffs and reworks I hope you don't mean, give garbage killer players the tools to win easily. It should be a challenge for both sides.
Major buffs would be something like Spirit/Ghostface treatment. These two Killers had a lot of problems and received numerous changes that made them much better. For specific power level, I would like for yellow tier Killers to be in the somewhere between Billy and Myers (wishful thinking of course, but one can dream).
@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/550491#Comment_550491
Swap plague with leatherface and you have a deal
If anything, I would probably lower Leatherface's placement next tier list. But yeah, our tier lists are mostly similar.
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Red is viable against good survivors (lethality + mobility/map control).
Orange is not quite there yet (have lethality, but lack mobility/map control).
Yellow...yikes. Let's just say they each have a lot of problems.
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In my opinion:
High Tier: Old Legion (Frank's Mixtape)
Mid Tier: Old Legion (Moonwalking)
Low Tier: Old Legion (no Frank's, no Moonwalking), New Legion
Old Legion with Frank's Mixtape would down Survivors in 3 Feral Frenzy hits. Pretty similar to Spirit in the sense that they could down with 2 power activations. High Mobility + High Lethality = High Tier.
Old Legion without Frank's Mixtape could cheese the Deep Would timer by artificially cancelling the chase while still being there (Moonwalking, looking down etc.). There was no counter to this and the Survivor would go down, but it still took some time. High Mobility + Medium Lethality = Mid Tier.
Old Legion without Frank's Mixtape or Moonwalking could still down a Survivor with 4 Feral Frenzy Hits. That took at least 3 power activations, making the power quite slow, but still lethal. High Mobility + Low Lethality = upper Low Tier.
New Legion's mobility was somewhat sidegraded, but Feral Frezy lost its lethality, making it bottom of the Low Tier. New Legion's power grants you just an easy first hit. After that, you are a powerless pallet restricted M1 Killer. Similar to Wraith, Freddy, Pig etc...yikes.
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I'm All Ears is pretty decent now. I think your buff suggestion is fair and wouldn't make it overpowered, but personally would prefer if tiers II and III increased the aura reveal by 1 second each. In other words, an 8 second reveal on a 40 second cooldown over a 6 second reveal on 30 - similar power level, different focus.
Furtive Chase should reduce terror radius when NOT in a chase. Devs could change the name to "Furtive Approach" if it bothers then, as well as put a limit do minimum terror radius resulting from this perk in case gen grabs become a problem.
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Brutal Strength, Enduring and Spirit Fury help against pallet drops, not the loop itself (running laps around a pallet).
When you combo Enduring + Spirt Fury, half of the Killer's loadout, which should be equivalent to 8/16 Survivor perks, the best you can do is get a free hit every 3 pallet drops. Assuming you can run at least three laps around a safe loop, you need to go through nine laps + catch-up time after breaking two pallets. That is the optimal scenario. By dropping the pallet one lap early, Survivors completely negate half of your loadout while still running you for six laps every three pallets. SWF can run you for even more laps, since all friends will immediately know if Spirit Fury ever procs.
Is Enduring + Spirit Fury meta? Yes. Is it enough to make pallet restricted M1 Killers be viable at high level gameplay like Nurse, Spirit and Hag? Not even close. If anything, it helped Billy the most, and his combination of fast mobility and high lethality was already strong to begin with.
We have two problems:
1) The perks (Bamboozle, Brutal Strength, Enduring, Spirit Fury) occupy too many perk slots. While you can in fact equip all four at the same time, they occupy too much loadout space for the effect they grant.
2) There's no perk that directly counters pallet loops per se. Anti-pallet perks are too focused on the pallet drop rather than the laps you run around the object.
While BHVR's promise to make safe loops shorter and more susceptible to mind games is part of the solution, I believe they can go even further to help M1 Killers. Here are my suggestions:
1) Give Enduring the Brutal Strength treatment. That means reducing the baseline pallet stun and nerfing the perk to compensate, freeing a perk from the M1 Killer's rigid loadout (Enduring, Spirit Fury, Barbecue & Chilli, Hex: Ruin). Billy would also benefit from this, but this is more of a problem of M1 Killers being almost strictly worse than Billy during a chase than a problem with the idea of "Brutal Strengthening" Enduring. This brings us to my second solution:
2) Create an anti-looping perk that specifically helps against the laps Survivors run around a pallet rather than the pallet drop itself at the price at putting your M2 on a cooldown. Imagine a perk that lets you blink once every 60/50/40 seconds (similar to the blink ability from Identity V) but immediately puts your M2 ability on a cooldown for 30/25/20 seconds, for example. Would be garbage on Nurse, leave Billy without a one shot, Spirit without phase walk and could be programmed to prevent Hag from teleporting during the cooldown, but it would help the likes of Trapper, Wraith, Doctor, Freddy, Pig etc SO MUCH!
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Clown + Freddy: Clown receives an add-on that puts intoxicated Survivors to sleep for 90 seconds, causing them to suffer an action speed penalty of 50%. Intoxicated Survivors can only wake up after the timer runs out (affected by Vigil) or with the help of a teammate.
Clown + Hag: Clown receives the ability to teleport on top of Survivors after directly hitting them with the Afterpiece Tonic.
Doctor + Freddy: Doctor receives a set of add-ons that cause Survivors in Madness II/III to be only able to see glimpses of him during X seconds after being hit with Shock Therapy.
Doctor + Legion: Doctor applies the deep wound status effect when hitting a Madness III Survivor with a Shock Therapy attack.
Ghostface + Nurse: When the stalk meter reaches 100%, instead of applying the exposed status effect Ghostface blinks directly on top of the Survivor.
Huntress + Ghostface: After holding a hatchet for 3 seconds, Huntress loses her terror radius and her red stain, her humming stops and visible Survivors are highlighted in a white aura. This effect would be indicated by an exhale sound only audible to the Killer.
Nurse + Freddy: Nurse needs to put Survivors to sleep before hitting them. In exchange for this drawback, her terror radius is reduced and she gains Freddy's aura reading abilities.
Pig + Huntress: At the end of the ambush attack, Pig throws her Hidden Blade, dealing damage to any Survivor it hits. After the animation, a new Hidden Blade appears as a replacement.
Trapper + Nurse: Trapper gains the ability to set traps from a distance. By holding the power button, a Plaid Flannel style indicador appears, marking the setting area of the Bear Trap, and continues to progress until max distance. Release the button to set the trap. To accommodate this change, normal Bear Trap setting now happens instantly with a single click, no time wasted.
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This could actually be nice as a baseline mechanic rather than a perk.
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A lot of great ideas that would be both powerful AND fun to use.
Monstruous Shrine is my favorite, but I'm not sure it could be implemented because some maps don't support two basements and it would probably be too much work to add that second structure. Instead, I think the perk could keep the special basement shrine, but the second teleport point should change: maybe adding a marker to a far generator, maybe adding a "charm" to any hook (which would open the possibility of a direct interaction from the Survivor, as well as Saboteur and Breakdown counters), maybe straight up teleporting as long as you are at least X meters away from the basement shrine.
Coulrophobia would be powerful and stressful. I like it, but RIP intermediate Survivors.
Mad Grit would be a BEAUTIFUL dance of death! This change needs to be implemented.
Shadowborn would be cool. A fog matters perk is definitely unique and interesting.
Territorial Imperative would be powerful, but very unfair. I would like TI to cover a certain area around the basement stairs (for example 10-20 meters in all directions) instead, adjusting the cooldown and minimum distance if necessary. In case that is not strong enough, the perk could spawn a totem in the basement and make it the priority for hex activation.
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There's no reason for this perk to have a timer in the first place.
You can't stack perk activations. Survivors having less ways to predict whether the kick is going to be standard one or not is a good thing. Such timer also doesn't prevent camping, since hardcore campers are probably not even gonna bother with this perk and situational campers are not going away from the hook in occasions where camping is the optimal play.
My proposed QOL Changes:
1 - After hooking a Survivor, the next Generator you break is instantly regressed by 15/20/25 % of its total progression. Normal Generator regression applies after the damage is done.
2 - After hooking a Survivor, the next Generator you break is instantly regressed by 25 % of its total progression. Normal Generator regression applies after the damage is done. Pop Goes The Weasel is active for 80/100/120 seconds after the Survivor is hooked.
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I agree. Pig should be able to see RBT timer progress.
Furthermore, Plague should be able to see Survivor's infection meter.
I would also like Hex: Huntress Lullaby totem to not light up until the first hook and not give any notification until the full 5 stack is in effect. During the time the notification was bugged, the hex was able to stay for a healthy amount of time while also allowing the Survivors to deduce something was wrong with the skill checks.
Killers should also know when a Survivor has the "endurance" status (Borrowed Time, Mettle of Man).
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Completely losing the item is too harsh, specially because of skill checks that appear right when you cancel healing or repairing actions.
Taking 10-20% of the item's charge when you miss a skill check? Not a bad idea, as long as the game gives you the opportunity to complete the skill checks that appear after cancelling an action, similar to what happens with Overcharge.
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I hope we get a double BP weekend soon, even if not on Easter. Ash being released so soon after Chapter X got me BP starved.
Manage to obtain Ash and Jane's perks on my main Survivor, but getting Plague's perks on all Killers is gonna take very long. 😧
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The Legion update goes against a big feedback from the community regarding Feral Frenzy's lack of lethality: without Frank's Mixtape or moonwalking, it took 3 activations to cause enough meter damage to down a Survivor. The rework worsens the problem, making their power completely non-lethal.
My question is: now that Feral Frenzy is slower, immediately ends upon missing an attack and renders Legion unable to see blood stains, could you make it so the power retains the ability to damage the Deep Would meter, allowing Legion to deal up to 2 hits per power activation, effectively giving them the ability to down a Survivor with 2 activations (4 hits) of Feral Frenzy?
I understand the original design intent was for Feral Frenzy to be simply an utility power for getting the first hit and spread the damage against multiple Survivors, but M1 Killers with 115% movement speed and no one-shot ability (Clown, Doctor, Freddy, Pig, Trapper, Wraith) are simply not good enough against good Survivor teams even if some of them often get free first hits (Freddy, Pig, Wraith). I would rather have a 110% movement speed Legion with a lethal Feral Frenzy that doesn't allow moonwalking or missing any attacks than yet another underpowered M1 Killer whose build relies on Enduring + Spirit Fury combo to even hope to down Survivors in a timely manner.
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Instead of allowing the Killers to open the exit gates, could you allow them to surrender and immediately leave the game once the exit gates are powered without losing bloodpoints?
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High Tier (don't need buffs) - Nurse, Billy, Spirit, Hag
Mid Tier (could use buffs/ QoL changes) - Huntress, Legion (current), Leatherface, Myers
Low Tier (need significant buffs) - Clown, Trapper, Wraith, Plague, Pig, Doctor, Freddy
Too early for Legion (rework). First impression seems to indicate a Wraith level Killer.
Trapper is difficult to place. When everything goes well and Survivors fall for multiple traps, he has high tier performance. Worst case scenario where no traps get triggered makes him worse than a Killer with no power.