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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/592736#Comment_592736
You missed my point entirely.
You are comparing essentially an FPS game with an Asymmetric horror game.
Definition of asymmetrical. 1 : having two sides or halves that are not the same :
However, when the balance of someone on one side completely dominates gameplay no matter what the other team does. Which I have already said is not skillful play to begin with. You are comparing two people with similar mechanics one with more experience. Vs Nurse who generally just avoids most mechanics of gameplay. I don't get your point please explain. @Sluzzy
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/592503#Comment_592503
Imagine asking for nerfs because a 3000 hours CSGO player beats players that have 500 hours. The CSGO community would castrate you. In DBD, a cult is formed and the 3000 hour player is OP and needs nerfed. That's where we are with Nurse debate.
@Sluzzy I mean alright there I don't see the full point now we are bringing in some mystical hours here. I mean I guess when someone with 3000 hours plays nurse and loses nurse should get a buff. Those 3000 hours I can genuinely say at least 500-1000 hours is lobby time for most people. Let's not forget there are two sides killer and survivor with how many different killers. A person doesn't usually dedicated 3000 hours to the same killer. Let's also not forget it counts app run-time not gameplay time. So when DBD doesn't fully close properly and steam considers it 'running' you gain hours that you didn't even play. In addition to general AFK time.
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/591780#Comment_591780
You're ignoring the fact that Zubat in the video faked his movements, used LOS breakers, used DH a few times, and juked the nurse in the corn. She's P3, it wasn't her first rodeo.
Ok, faking movements what this does is again attempting to get the nurse to blink the wrong way. However, this saves you one set of blinks.
He had dead hard in most cases unless the nurse is able to instant come out of the blink into a hit is a free escape. Again Dead Hard isn't skill it is a free dash and invincibility.
LOS breakers it is probably the nurse attempted to go through the wall. This is actually the worst idea as I have stated earlier you want to remove the LOS problem.
Please tell me how Corn maps are any good indicators of balance? In fact I will give it Nurse is terrible in corn maps even good ones. You have the fatigue which makes you look down which means you lost the corn battle. You can't see where they went this isn't OMG GOD TIER JUKE MY DUDES. Nurse must be balanced. Just because Nurse has a severe weakness in corn doesn't mean she is balanced.
Again this is cherry picking for the argument. The first argument this generally only works one or two times. You adapt to what the player is going to do more often so you will blink in the middle and then blink to them on the second blink. Dead Hard - Is a nice counter to nurse I won't lie. However, a perk should not mean she is balanced or that the survivor was skillful. The core mechanic is broken if he didn't have dead hard GGEZ for that nurse. Corn is not skillful it is dependent on the players eyes. Some people have corn blindness some don't. Again this just doesn't equate to balance or skill.
However, all these tactics you will do as generally any other killer. Waiting for the dead hard, Trying to outplay the mind-game. This doesn't mean the mechanics of nurse takes skill. Nurse's mechanics are solely based on time/distance ratio which is a muscle memory trait.
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@gantes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/592458#Comment_592458
The devs are EXTREMELY conservative to make balance changes in this game, probably because they know that 1. the community is so entitled on both sides it causes an outrage every time something balance-related is released and 2. they know they don't have the manpower and time to revisit said changes efficiently if they backfire.
I do think this game would be miles better with a small, dedicated balance team that listens to good players, but the community isn't mature enough for that, clearly. It's obvious to see every time someone suggests nerfs to Nurse or anything that makes looping slightly weaker. The entitlement in this community is absurd.
I agree with this for about 85% of it. However, in the case of nurse. You have nurse mains saying she is OP, survivors dcing/giving up simply because it is a nurse, killers avoiding playing nurse knowing it is brutal to play as on the survivor side, and the best logical argument for counters for the nurse is 'Use Brain' or 'Break LOS' in which has been all but proven to only work for so long. Not to mention everyone calls the killer 'god' tier.
Now, as many people say it takes skill to use nurse. I couldn't disagree with that statement more. It takes muscle memory to get down the blink distance. It takes basic predictions that you make with ALL killers to be god tier.
The only time a nurse that really loses is either full swf that can pound out generators or the nurse player themselves is god awful. However, with the swf group usually the play is to try and at least get someone out. You can say 'nurse counters swf', however, this again makes her viable for all the wrong reasons.
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From my perspective: Yes, they should be color coded or show a mini icon of the perk above the totem for the killer. However, the reason behind this is not 'I want more information' if the killer is heavily guarding their hex just do gens they won't get the benefits.
However, from the survivor's perspective survivor auras are red the killer aura is that weird off gray color. While the killer just has red hooks,gens,totems, and a slightly more vibrant but hide-able survivor aura. Already a lack of knowledge between auras from the survivor and killer perspective.
Totems in more than one way are completely useless unless the survivors don't feel like cleansing them. Which you also have how many ways to find and cleanse totems to begin with. So this boost wouldn't really help that much. Actually, if you frequent a certain location because it is your devour for example the survivors know it is there.
Hex perks: The totems are also lit up for the survivors. Why do they not remain dull isn't that giving too much information? Again just a devil's advocate point. You can distinguish which totems are and are not hexes so we should be able to distinguish between what they are. Pretty simple balanced logic there.
For the example of how many skill checks there wil be: That is a joke when there are times skill checks don't even appear for the entirety of a gen.
Items, I believe are generated as you open them since if you open it 99% with one survivor and finish it with someone with plunder's and Ace in the Hole you will generally get an attached add-on. So this cannot be told to the survivors since it is generated on the spot. So good luck having future telling of who will open it and what RNG you will get.
Also do not forget these are perks that can be broken and removed from the game at any time. So in some ways this should favor the killer the gamble is real if you are essentially going to be running perkless or not simply due to bad RNG. Which we all know RNG does not equal balance.
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@rina said:
Make offerings for “not this map”.
Sadly, this would cause a bloodweb bloat issue. @rina We use to have addons that Slightly and Tremendously gave chances to go to a map. However, this made 2x/map offerings which again bloated the bloodwebs in map offerings. You would cause the same having 1 let's go to and 1 get away from map offerings.
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/591186#Comment_591186
In other words, survivors should have offerings that Slightly increases their chances to get sent to a certain map, while the killer gets offerings that tremendously increases their chances to get sent to a certain map. I like that idea! The killer's offerings should be a lot stronger than a single survivor using their offering! :)
@NMCKE this is how I would do it personally.
For example: If the survivors put in 3 macmillian and 1 haddonfield offerings while the killer put in lerys.
The RNG based thing adds 3 blocks for macmillian, 1 for haddonfield, 3 for lerys, and a Another map block which will be a randomized map and location. This way the killer has potential in getting what they want the majority of offerings has a chance, even the solo haddonfield has a chance. If all else fails and they all got rekt they get a random map. This makes it not a guarantee but a better increased chance. However, if the map happened to be that RNG based one I would make it slightly less favorable for the maps that the killer is particularly weak on. As I stated above Rotten Fields for Myers.
Edit: However, this does not make it so myers would never get rotten fields just a little bit less common. Idk what system they are currently using for the map selector. However, I have had games where I played the same map 3/4 times in a row which makes me question how this would even happen.
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@NMCKE said:
Here's your favorite YouTuber showing you that Nurse isn't easy to play, this proves that Nurse isn't an easy pick up killer!
@NMCKE she requires muscle memory. Once you get the basic grasps of blinks her power is broken. It isn't like wraith where you either cloak/uncloak or spirit phase/not phase. She has several different distances for blinks. Do you cancel a blink and shoot it to the ground. etc. However, once that is learned which is not hard. It is like riding a bike just takes a bit of practice. The killer at the core is broken.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/587716#Comment_587716
The issue with that is; survivors outnumber the killer by 4:1. Only one survivor would have to burn an offering while the killer would have to burn one every time. As the killer, you would run out of offerings fairly quickly while survivors only need to use one in 1/4 games on average.
@Peanits weigh the killer's offering as like worth 3 survivor offerings? I mean there can be counter balance. Like if I own 20% of a company and you own 80% your word matters more. The killer is a condensed team they should be valued as such. That or say 3 of us pick game map and 2 people pick haddonfield. If we load into haddonfield the people that used the game offering doesn't lose their map offering. I mean you will eventually get the RNG in your favor.
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No, it is tactic. Do you even know what FaceCamping is? You use to be able to block the unhook prompt to the point survivors couldn't save.
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@TheGorgon said:
I totally disagree with one of your points for Spirit; How are you going to make a vault animation for a killer who heavily depends on the use of mind games; that's both ridiculous and silly. Plus, I don't know about Wraith, my man is sitting at one of the worst killers currently, c'mon.
@HeyItsNick123andnea I would like to see any other killer be able to stand at a window and it is considered a mind-game. Simply put she has enough potential the vault animation would be the only nerf. The phasing sound being accurate when she is phasing is a QOL change on the survivor perspective. It is how you are suppose to counterplay this killer. If there is no phasing sound because of bad audio in-game than there is no counterplay. IE viable for the wrong reasons.
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@Atrushan88 said:
@Jdsgames You realize whether it's based on distance or TR would be exactly the same for your situation with Wraith, right? You'd still be able to see stealth killers because they'd still be a set distance from you. I mean yeah, they'd be able to see you a bit less, but I don't think it'd do much difference as if you got in 32m you could still walk backwards. TrU3 does this quite well, although he's a higher tiered killer so he knows where survivors will be when, which I guess is why he can counter OoO so well when it pops up against him(despite me viewing his videos and only seeing it maybe 3 times out of 10 killer videos). I mean distance would be a fine change, not too problematic, since it wouldn't really destroy the perk. You'd still be able to see stealth killers within the range you generally should. Although making it a 32 meter distance would mess with interactions like Distressing. I suppose if the killer's terror radius is 0 they could set it to a 32m distance, but that'd mess with lower TR killers.
@Atrushan88 No, if it was distance based when I was cloaked they would still be under the 32m distance. That means when I am close enough to them I still have the capability to use wraith's uncloaking speed as a possible cut of distance in a chase. You CANNOT do this against OBO.
Even walking backwards you have to predict which direction they are going to run blindsided. This is especially problematic at jungle gyms. You cannot cut them off while being cloaked or double back as they see you. Even trying to hide it the aura only has to show for a split fraction of a second to give away position and break any form of mind-game chance you had. This is how you play optimally Wraith is extremely strong when you know when to just disappear and go after someone else or stay on them and trap them. However, if I ignore you because you have OBO you will do gens. If I go after you I have to do it uncloaked which means wraith has baseline killer potential at max. At least with it being distance based In a tight-loop based chase it doesn't affect the killer.
Ghost Face - Goes into shroud person knows you are coming and can see you from any distance on the map practically. Oh, they are going over there let me break them out of stealth. The perk simply counters the entire power simply by abusing the mechanic of terror radius being the minimum distance it can be used.
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No, it simply should be based on distance not TR. 32 meter minimum distance. Boom solution solved. The picture above should show you why I used nurse. That perk obliterates any no-terror radius reliant killer. Yes, I will not deny the poor dwight that was gonna bully me as wraith may or may have not been wiped from existence. He even nodded once the match began because he knew what was going down.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
She is OP and we don't need a video to prove it.
However, she takes a lot of skill to learn, but its not fair to say that because she takes skill to learn she is OK when it comes to completely ignoring many mechanics in the game.
She does not take skill to play @Johnny_XMan
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@ThirdSealOPplzNerf said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/76539/to-all-people-saying-nurse-basekit-is-fine
To all people who complain about assymetrically balanced killers with very high skill caps. If someone masters nurse and gets a 4k they deserve it and that how assymetrical games are suppose to play like.
You cannot master a straight line. It is muscle memory. The perdictions come from your ability to play as a killer. Ie How a survivor will react to you playing nurse. However, in many cases you can take the cheated route and instead of blinking through the wall you blink to a side that gives you LOS. Use the second blink to catch up or down the survivor. This is not skillful play.
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@Atrushan88 said:
@Jdsgames You ALSO see their aura from 72/64 to 0 meters if you have 0 terror radius. You realize this right? It grants the SAME bonuses to the killer as the survivor in EVERY situation. Btw as for Ruin, it does actually have a use if you can hit great skill checks. It prevents a bonus to progression even if you hit it. It's not like it's completely nullified by hitting great skill checks. Not saying what you said has no weight, but it's not completely useless even if you can hit great skill checks. Even if you have 0 terror radius, you can also look the complete opposite way to counter it and trick them.
@Financial_Stability This would be true, if TrU3Ta1ent didn't upload his youtube videos from his streams. You can't fake that.
@Atrushan88 I don't think you have played wraith to know about how his best potential mind-game plays work. The problem is you are forced out of cloak mode as wraith then become the easiest loop-able killer. When you are in cloak mode wraith gets his power from the mind-game potential at pallets due to the speed boost. However, you can't mind-game something that can see your aura. There is no way to sneak up without walking backwards through the entire map. Even looking away you need to have some indication of where they are to use your ability. So essentially wraith is powerless in all chases against an OBO. If you would like to KYF you would see the potent damage. A perk should not nullify a killer. Similar to how one perk shouldn't guarantee a win.
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@Atrushan88 said:
@Jdsgames You can't. If you're running Object of Obsession, you can only see up to 72(If you're the obsession, otherwise 64 meters) meters with tier 3. Also if they're INSIDE the killer's terror radius, they can't see their aura. This means that in general(I'd say most killers have 32 m TR), they can see you within 32-40 meters with OoO, and that's outside of your terror radius.
@Atrushan88 see cloaked wraith has no terror radius. <3 Stealth Pig has no Terror Radius, GhostFace has no Terror Radius. So they can be seen from 0->~whatever meters. It's minimum should be distance based not terror radius based.
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@JMFF_4TheGr8terGud said:
well i feel as if its fair, if killers can have bbQ hex ruin and noed all at once that OoO is not that bad, it helps both sides, learn to play against instead of getting rid of it
hex ruin is useless. If you can hit greats on gens without ruin. How does ruin actually affect you? Get good at hitting skill checks. Not to mention this perk is HEAVILY RNG dependant. I have gotten games where I was 2 gens in without a skill check. Noed, please do totems there are at most currently 5 to a map. If you can't take the time to do them. You risk the chance at noed. BBQ the equivalent is WGLF with an aura reading that is countered by Hook and gen auras, Lockers, Distortion, and being in range of the perk. So please tell me how any of this compares to a perk that you are in control of for an aura reading 24/7 that completely destroys killers like Wraith, and Ghostface. @JMFF_4TheGr8terGud
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@PrincessPoop said:
I really don’t know how many people it will take speaking up before the devs finally realize that mandatory button mashing is an absolutely terrible idea, and it is a 100% outdated “mechanic”. I understand that they want to keep struggling interactive, but practically ANYTHING ELSE would be a better option than what we have now.
@PrincessPoop what are your thoughts about the suggested mechanic. @Peanits already said if enough people speak up they will look into changing it.
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@Atrushan88 said:
@Financial_Stability And what would your nerf suggest? Nerfing it to where it won't work on stealth killers would just make it so that it's a 100% negative effect to the user of the perk, and there's no such perk like that for anyone, nor should there be. Also even watching rank 1 youtubers, you don't see OoO that much so I don't think it's become some meta.
@Atrushan88 honestly I have been playing wraith quite frequently I am getting at least one OBO user every 4 games or so. However, if I feel there is a user that is running OBO I run nurse. Now let me tell you something I NEVER see their aura then? Coincidence I think not. Although, I agree OBO shouldn't work within a certain range to a killer. So if they are within 32 meters to whatever their max is you can't see the killer nor can the killer see you. Play wraith and try to cloak-mind game a survivor running OBO.
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@ElusivePukka said:
Bonus Idea: allow both a normal offering and a map offering as separate slots per player.
That way more people will play map offerings they want, and they would overall be more appealing in the bloodweb.
Very nice idea @ElusivePukka Then we can have two rows on the offering screen. One for the normal offerings one for maps.
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@fluffymareep said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/586895#Comment_586895
That was the only thing I wasn't sure of, but it could translate differently to a game than I'm thinking it would. I know some people were concerned for newer players who aren't the best at skill checks, though.
I see what you are saying @fluffymareep However, this idea is again bending to the new players which is why we have a balance problem at high rank. I can understand new players issue with camping and tunneling. However, before I bring anyone new to play I let them KYF a few skill checks just to get the hang of it. Camping this mechanic would punish the low-rank campers more than they already do so it would be a slight buff to new players in a way that it doesn't affect high-rank non camping killers. In fact if survivors got left on the hook just a bit longer. That is less time they were on gens. See the picture? It is a mechanic that slightly tends to the balance issues. I see the same problem with survivors being injured and gen kick at base. A perk shouldn't be what is needed to make a mechanic work or be benefited from. Like dull totems for example. How, I percieve it there should be a bonus to the killer for every dull totem remaining. Maybe like +2% to their movement speed per dull totem. This makes the mechanic necessary to do rather than a side-ho objective to possibly counter a perk.
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I generally find the severity of what is being said is more important.
"Hey loser uninstall the game" "######### killer get gud"
is far less 'deep' than
'I hope you and your family die tonight in a fire'
One is silly, The other has blatantly pushed boundaries. If you are getting offended by the silly ones that is an issue on your end. As people said sit and enjoy the salt. It isn't toxic if anything it is poor sportsmanship. Although, I am not sure they care about being banned most of them.
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My perspective in this is that it should determine based of the killer slightly. For example say myers is really bad at Rotten Fields. Since the stalk is kinda blocked by corn. The map system adds a 'bonus' of chance to maps that are more balanced or favors myers. However, this wouldn't remove the chance at rotten fields. It just becomes less likely. That way you don't lose because you are playing X killer on Y map. Like Huntress on Yamaoka.
That or it gives no preference to any map and it is total RNG. So Haddonfield has the same chance as Rotten Fields.
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@Peanits has already mentioned this in another "Can we buys currency" thread that they have no plans for this currently. However, they are looking to reduce the grind. If it is really bad pick up BBQ and Chili and go gain stacks.
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I know Enduring and Spirit Fury is the ultimate combo, but...
Eh, the difference Brutal Strength gives not really. The reason they bring enduring is because when that final pallet you run into smacks you boom not as stunned. Quick hit. Otherwise you would deal with the entire stun and they probably got to another pallet or some distance.
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General Mechanic Many people have taken to asking for this to be an automatic phase. This kinda takes the 'struggle' out of struggle.
A mechanic that fixes struggle state and even further punishes campers. If you turn it into skill checks staying on the hook for struggle can be considered objective points from the skill checks. Then struggle points for surviving. Therefore you gain points for helping your team beat the campers! Although, you never really face campers at higher ranks.
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@DaS_only said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/587122#Comment_587122
But after 30 hours u ain't gonna be rank 19. U would have already past rank 10
Could have been playing survivor or had it afk @DaS_only It is strange though.
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@ClogWench said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/587121#Comment_587121
He said 30 hours recent so I'm guessing he dropped it for half a year or so and then picked up back up. OP ran into him 30 hours after he restarted.
Possible I guess. @ClogWench Especially if they were a killer main.
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@ClogWench said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/587092#Comment_587092
The howling grounds mask from like 2 years ago means it was an old inactive account
@ClogWench didn't read that part must have missed it. Although, it doesn't make sense having that cosmetic and that low hours. That grind for the mask was god-awful.
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I just bought an Alt recently during the sale. Been leveling it for meme builds and changing my name. Soz it might be possible you faced me LOL.
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She is a licensed character. Probably making up the difference after the license holder's cut <3 Although, I will agree cosmetics are expensive.
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@fluffymareep said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/586459#Comment_586459
I dunno about perks/powers affecting the skill checks.
@fluffymareep if you notice for the most part they are all weaker perks/powers so I generally don't think it would be a super-ultra god tier meta change. @ClogWench what do you think about this suggestion? I have seen you post on other anti-struggle threads.
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@Glisurd if that is the case can you vote up the main post of the suggestion. I want to show how many people agree with the change. See if we can change something.
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I suggested this as a repair to Stuggle Phase being a joke. It punishes camping in a way that isn't a detriment to normal killers. It also cannot be easily abused like the previous punish camping PTB suggestion.
General Mechanic Many people have taken to asking for this to be an automatic phase. This kinda takes the 'struggle' out of struggle. -
^ What the three mods just said XD.
Also: You should take another picture ones it cleans up a bit.
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@fluffymareep said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/585473#Comment_585473
I didn't get any of that, though. If anything, it would make times longer, which wouldn't be an issue if the killer decides not to camp. It could be an organic way of punishing camping when/if they introduce additional objectives or change the gen times. It also gives you something to do that isn't button mashing. As someone who plays both and leans more towards survivor, I think it sounds fair and it could make perks more useful and possibly give you more points, too.
@fluffymareep thank you, do you have any suggestions to the main suggestion?
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@Atrushan88 said:
@Jdsgames You're right, I meant Unnerving, sorry. I never use those perks so I always get them mixed up. If I owned Legion I might use Distressing on him for more information, but I don't generally see a benefit of the perk otherwise(unless playing Doctor and I just don't play Doctor), and survivors don't generally stay in TR for long while doing gens anyways for Unnerving. Also I looked at them and they look fine to me. All that would need to be done would be for them to add extra text to define Unnerving not working under struggle conditions.
I agree and also Any other suggestions? @Atrushan88
You seem to be someone more interested in balance and better mechanics rather than GG I win or "Just use a macro."
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@RegularPlayer said:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA..... Your joking right? In Iden. V the struggle faze is the worst part its worse since the Hunters dont move viciously in that game & move overall faster but to master Iden. V Hunters is like becoming a GOD... Hunter Camping is big problem in game but Iden. V is more....... Diverse.....
Soo uh? What are you talking about @RegularPlayer how does anything you just mentioned add any sort of input to the thread. However, if you want to input any form of actual input I have a different suggestion for struggles that isn't automatic:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/585657#Comment_585657
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@Atrushan88 said:
@Jdsgames I definitely agree there'd be a balance problem, obviously, but something would have to be added so that people know "Hey this doesn't work", if things were done that way. Balance is important, but so is consistency. That's why things like Autodidact have specific text that says "Does not work with med kits", or We'll Make It says "Cannot exceed 100% healing speed". At the very least that would need to be placed on Distressing.
@Atrushan88 Look at the perk effects and changes. I specify if a perk will or will not work and why. If you have suggestions or thoughts on more perks do let me know. I could have forgotten about others. Ruin is already tied specifically to gen skill checks so it wouldn't apply. Distressing I think you mean unnerving. However, it would be op and abused. It shouldn't even need to hit live to figure that out. Although, I agree 100% with text information of the perk should be accurate. I didn't know autodidact was non-medkit specific until someone told me a few days ago. Same with dark sense you need to be on the generator for it to renew auras. Although, I will look into cleaning the section up a bit so it easily readable.
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@Atrushan88 said:
@Jdsgames Might want to take out this sentence as it is now meaningless due to the other changes, but looks fine to me.
"Slipping up too much is essentially your give up option. This plays into how people suicide for hatch and various mechanics where you are limited by at least 10 seconds before you can do this."(For some reason can't use quotes on Microsoft Edge for me)
Although Distressing not working while Huntress Lullaby DOES work still confuses me. It doesn't make sense for some perks to work while others don't. I mean I don't WANT Distressing to work, but for the sake of everything working the same way, if Huntress Lullaby works, that would dictate that Distressing would as well.
Good eye @Atrushan88
Also I think I strive for balance more than "Oh if X works Y should work" I am up for extra mechanics on some perks that would effect it, but, current standings of some of the perks. Little OP you can't lie.
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@Atrushan88 said:
@Peanits Can you suggest this change with a suicide button that can be used at any time?
@ThatGuyFromThatPlace Your friend and brother should at the very least be able to hit normal good skillchecks right? Although if they're newer it'll come with time.
@Atrushan88 I have been updating and managing the original post of the thread with the ideas. Take a look suggestions have been credited even. Thank you guys for also taking the time to like the original post. It takes a bunch of people to make a change to a mechanic like this. The more support it gets the more likely it is to happen in some form. Still open to suggestions that flesh out this mechanic more for implementation and how mechanics would work. Please keep in mind I am looking to have this implemented in a fair way both good and bad aspects for both the killer and survivor.
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@Atrushan88 said:
@Jdsgames Well in that case the only thing left is deciding on a button for both deliverance and letting go, as you said you need to press a button to activate deliverance if you have the option to use it.
@Atrushan88 that can be up to the devs. I really don't care as long as they are not the same button LOL.
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@Atrushan88 said:
@Jdsgames So you can press this suicide button even during skillchecks? If so that'd be fine I guess.
Yes, @Atrushan88 I am down for that working. It adds dynamic to the phase. Think of suicide like just letting go. Missing two like screwing up so bad you lose to the entity.
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@Atrushan88 said:
@Jdsgames Doing this though prevents you from suicide during skillchecks, and I don't mind no time at all being added, which was why I said you could remove great skillchecks, or at least reduce their skillcheck success zones, making it not a buff, well aside from deliverance, but honestly you should get to use your perk if you got the stack for it regardless imo. Camping killers are punished enough by normal struggle time as is anyways.
@Atrushan88 no, I was originally saying miss two on purpose was your suicide. However, that was exchanged for the button like you suggested. However, missing two still kills you. It makes the gamble have a punish side to it and makes it so you have to actually attempt to keep concentrated to stay alive. If you miss two in a row boom you are gone. So you have to balance making sure if you miss one go for that saftey net of a good. Want to gamble you can lose time in the struggle. However, camping is still quite viable in certain cases so I do like punishing it. EGC camping is fine it is a good strat, however, doing it to be an ass to someone isn't.
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@Atrushan88 said:
@Jdsgames That should be fine. As long as there's a prompt telling you which button to use. I suppose it wouldn't be available during skillchecks, but you could just fail the skill check to ######### in that situation anyways so it should be fine. I do feel like if you fail one skillcheck you should die immediately, but in return perks wouldn't work on it. Doctor's power could PERHAPS work on it due to it being a power and not a perk, but that would likely have to be tested. This way you could suicide any time you wanted to exactly like live, rather than needing to fail a skillcheck and THEN press the dedicated button during skillcheck sequences. Plus I can only imagine how bad Huntress Lullaby would affect survivors if someone got full stacks with it. I don't think it should be any harder or easier than live. To compensate, you could remove great skillchecks completely and make no time be added, or reduce the great skillcheck success zones.
@Atrushan88 I don't want to make a one-miss death. It really would make trying to gamble for extra time severely not worth it. Removing that mechanic would make other suggestions need to be nullified like the deliverance buff as it would be nothing but a pure buff to the survivor stand point. Although, I am down for huntress lullaby affecting the skill checks on the hook differently. Although, if she was full stacks maybe you should be paying attention <3. This just makes the mechanic worth more overall on both sides. It also as stated in a previous point it punishes camping if you bring certain perks or are good at hitting greats. The longer you are on the hook from a killer perspective is better. So allowing extra time naturally would make rushed saves less incentivized. Although, the suicide option can be presented throughout the whole hook phase as 'e' like dead hard. It simply just works to bring in what @Peanits said a way to ######### on hook. Doesn't make it so you have to wait 10 seconds and then death animation. This allows you to give yourself some actual 'borrowed time' hah get it? The animations will make this bit better to look at than having to button mash.
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@Kaelum said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/583010#Comment_583010
WOW, just WOW! I generally talk about the damage that button mashing causes, and you go directly to water poisoning. WOW!
I read your entire original post and here is how it reads:
Hey, I’m the killer. You know, I don’t think it’s fair that a survivor gets 2 chances on the hook, so here is how we can kill the hooked survivor faster.
That is exactly what your entire post sums up to. I play both killer and survivor, with a preference towards killer, and I would never consider any of what you discuss as a viable option. Being on the hook should be nothing more than a time-out. The only thing in your entire post that is survivor sided, is the option to use Deliverance during second hook, which would mean that there is no counter to it.
So, there is the response that you asked for, both here, and the other thread. If any part of your idea became true, I can see people leaving the game in droves.
I would LOVE for you to explain to me how this is killer sided? @Kaelum
I acknowledged Unnerving Presence would be abused and specifically stated it shouldn't work with these skill checks.
I acknowledged that madness with doctor should be tested to see if it is fair.
I gave you the miss, safety, or bonus for the hook state. Gives the ability to gain extra time on your struggle phase, with a detriment for missing. If you don't want to gamble you have the good skill check as a safety net option.
This isn't an instant death punishment for missing one and is negated by hitting the good skill check or a great. Again a dual punishment and reward system that is balanced.
Most survivor perks that benefit this I see no reason with allowing them to boost you here.
This mechanic can hard-core punish campers depending on your ability to hit greats. That or bringing perks like stake out.
Changing animations to make a more in-depth mechanic.
It also gives a slight buff to deliverance. Although, to be fair you have to work for it.
This also removes your complaint about button mashing. In addition to removing the instant death penalty for a lag spike to kill you.
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@Kaelum said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/584401#Comment_584401
Unfortunately, you didn’t see where I refer to passive and active actions. Also, there is a difference between first hook and second hook. You seem to be fine with us “kicking back and enjoying some tea” during first hook, but certainly not during second hook, so that point is moot by your own acknowledgment. How about instead of what we currently have, we either:
- Push and hold a button, like all AAA games allow you to opt into, let go and you die immediately.
- You display a bar in the middle of the screen that fills horizontally over 10 seconds. If the bar fills, you die. If you press X, the bar resets to 0 and starts to fill again. If you press O (circle), you die immediately.
The fighting for your life comment is a little silly. Having skill checks every couple of seconds is ridiculous, and I hope you understand why. Do you think it is a good game mechanic to do this for the entire time that you are on the hook? No other game that I am aware of, has FORCED a player to mash a button for long as DbD does. NOT ONE!
That is because first hook isn't struggle state you just sit there on the hook. Almost like a safety net hook. Although, I don't want to put it down I will say most AAA games are very stale with the same mechanics each release. So I really don't find following their path always the best strategy. Otherwise we would be buying loot-boxes I mean um "Surprise Mechanics" in dead by daylight.
Your first suggestion is trash it takes the struggle out of the struggle state entirely. The second one I am kinda down with I just don't really see it as an active struggle. Kinda a stale mechanic like the current struggle.
Although, I do agree that button mashing should go. Lag spikes, input lag, and various things cause premature suicides to the point macros or key-rebinding is needed. However, I do not want to see it gone to an even more mindless option. @Kaelum