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@Hoodied said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2622020#Comment_2622020
It solely depends on the kind of game on if you can take hero shooter features into a certain game, dbd you cannot do that as then the game would become an unbalanced mess, moreso atleast
Not necessarily. Specific features being brought in could make things better, doesn't necessarily have to make things worse (just imagine if said feature/mechanic was implemented in a bug-free way by another developer lol)
Besides I never identifed a specific feature from TF2 I'm demanding in DBD, merely pointing out that it's more consistent and not necessarily just because it's symmetrical. The game design comes from classes rather than hundreds of perks.
I'm pretty sure there are asymmetrical games using classes (Ark or something? The one about hunting monsters) so it's not like I'm proposing the impossible
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@Ecstasy said:
As soon as I max out the rift levels I'm taking another break again.
The rubadub? I'm less than a month back from my last 2-3 month hiatus where I skipped the last rift entitrely.
Just allow yourself to not care for the current rift, and don't play.
Even if there are skins you like in the rift, they'll probably be available on the store at some point anyway cause BHVR like money
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@Yogerman1997 said:
reducing positive effects by 1/4 for each player with the same perk, and increase the cooldown by same amount.
Although a DS stun lasting about a second sounds good to me lol
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@Yogerman1997 said:
reducing positive effects by 1/4 for each player with the same perk, and increase the cooldown by same amount.
15 second DS ain't worth much
@Hoodied said:
"If I'm playing Age of Empires IV, and I see I am playing against the English, I know what the English can do, and know that they might go for a early longbow rush. I'll make decisions in my gameplay based around this.
If I'm playing Team Fortress 2 and I see a Sniper across the map, and I am a Scout, I know I will probably lose a shootout, as I know the capabilities of his class against mine, at range. If it is close range, I know that I'll probably win that engagement. I'll make decisions in my gameplay based around this.
With Dead by Daylight when you start chasing a Survivor, you have no such indication of what you are playing against, often until it is too late."
You just compared an Asymmetrical Game to a hero shooter and a real-time strategy game
DBD's gameplay does not do well as a hero shooter, and its not a real-time strat, its cat and mouse
The points I brought up around TF2 is that you generally know what you are dealing with due to the class/character based options. A game could be asymmetric, but have classes on one or both sides, and still be more balanced than what we have ATM.
Just because the games are from different genres doesn't mean we cannot explore ideas and concepts.
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@Dwigtht said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/293179/one-way-to-limit-op-survivor-builds
> E.g. if I see a David, I know he's probably going to have DH. If I see a Bill,
> slugging him is a risk (UB), and I can also assume he probably has BT.
> You can still get some powerful builds, e.g. a Bill could run UB, BT, DH and IW.
But people willingly do this already. When you play against Davids -- you know they most likely have DH. David with sprint burst is a shame.
When you see, Bill -- they most likely have UB and BT. I've tested this many times intentionally slugging Bills -- yep, most of them have UB :)
Those perks "OP" are not OP at all when you play against solo Q.
4 man SWFs on comm are the only OP thing in this game. They know each other's perks. They coordinate saves and gens.
This is OP. Huge advantage just for free. They can synergize their perks, so as a killer you are not playing with your 4 perks against the survivor's 4 perks when you are in chase, you are playing against 16 perks, teammates taking hits, flashlight-saviors in the bushes and head-ons in the locker where you have just downed the survivor.
Every Bill running BT means nothing, EVERYONE runs BT, it's not just Bills. Every Bill runs BT, yeah, but practically every survivor beyond a certain rank also runs BT, despite it being a teachable.
I never said these perks were OP tbh. I said the builds were OP. Even if you are in solo Queue I still feel something like DH/Deliverance/UB/DS can be used in a way that is OP.
Solo players can still potentially run BT AND DH on any Killer. It just means you don't also get to run IW and DS at the same time...
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@Mistikus said:
are you on high dear
What's high? Did you mean to say "on a high", cause that would be very funny and ironic if your message saying so was mistyped
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@Lochnload_exe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/293179/one-way-to-limit-op-survivor-builds
Make the game more predictable? That kind of takes away from the point of what the game is, by you not knowing what you could be going against in each match and adjusting your playstyle midgame. You can't really compare it to shooters or civ games lol
I can compare it to any game I like if we are discussing balance. Typically you wouldn't compare shooters and RTS games anyway but I was trying to make a general point around what balance means to me.
But yeah given its assymetric nature and lack of competitiveness, maybe I'm trying to shoehorn something into the game it should not be
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@BenZ0 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2621486#Comment_2621486
by "usable perk" you mean not absolutely busted that carrys you every single game?
Lmao got em
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@Tsunami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2621767#Comment_2621767
Haha, I don't usually use the forums ( I just had to share that story because I never experienced such a toxic guy before )so there is a high chance that Russians gonna be to blame when I won't post anything xd
For all I know you could the Russian hitman now and it's already too late
RIP Tsunami
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Imagine if OP suddenly stopped posting cause the Russians got him
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@Phasmamain said:
The main problem is a lot of these perks have to be secret or else they’ll be terrible. If I slug someone and they have a tell they have unbreakable I’ll just pick them up
I think to an extent this already happens, e.g. it is considered risky to leave a Bill slugged.
That's precisely my problem though that gameplay as a Killer is basically playing around these perks and a guessing game. In collectible card games this is why seasons exist, bringing cards in and out of being "active". This limits the scope of potential strategic decision as there is a limited pool of cards the opponent can potentially play. There is no such thing with DBD perks, and each time more perks are added, this problem gets progressively a bit worse. Although thankfully everyone plays the same 3 perks anyway so I guess it's not much of a problem.
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@Labrac said:
On a solo team I think it's fine, but on a SWF they should limit survivors to only 2 of the same perk. Playing on a SWF is already a huge advantage, and then some of them still feel the need to equip 4 Dead Hards, 4 Iron Wills, 4 DS and 4 BT.
the problem here I guess is you then have the game working in totally different ways based on if its SWF or not, and if it doesnt indicate to you it is SWF then we're back to square 1 of having no idea if survivors are running all perks, or if the game is in "SWF mode" and they have limited builds
Although I agree with you that this is more of an issue with SWF
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@ElmosPayPig said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2621526#Comment_2621526
This toxic pc elitism needs to end.
Not everyone can afford a 3k pc to play dbd well.
And not everyone wants to be hunched over a desk. Some people like to sit back and "try" to enjoy dbd while playing on their couch with a tv(or in my case, in handheld mode).
my PC is almost 10 years old at this point and runs DBD with no issues. It was 1.5K when I bought it.
Honestly I think owning a console is more expensive than a moderately specc'd PC in the long run lol, especially if you want to buy lots of games.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
This is a terrible idea on so many levels.
Destroys creative builds. I love playing the houdini build q&q, lithe, dance with me and deception. Superfun. Wouldn't be possible anymore cause those are all perks from different survivors
Wouldn't even solve the issue you're trying to solve. Bill has 2 meta perks. So pick him and the meta is still there.
Increases the grind even more. Only for people who want to play around with different builds though. Those who only play meta can just use the survivor who has the most meta perks. All the rest needs to level up every single survivor if they want to get creative with their builds.
Sorry but just a horrible idea on so many levels. There are only a handfull of truelly op survivor perks left. Just adjust those and let those who want to have fun with different builds have fun
"Destroys creative builds"
True that
"Wouldn't solve the meta issue"
It kinda does though because you know if you see 4 Bills you at least know what you are in for and can play hard from the outset
"Increases the grind even more"
Not really, as less builds are viable so there's less reason to even grind. The grind remains the same for unlocking specific builds.
"Sorry"
aint no thing, your response is constructive and I can take that
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/293179/one-way-to-limit-op-survivor-builds
Perks arnt the problem. Maps and gen speeds(slightly, not by much) are the problem.
Most maps are entirely to safe. That it does not allow for killers to get the pressure needed to make people get off gens.
I agree thats probably the main issue. I feel there's a few key small changes which could contribute to the game over my suggestion here:
- remove the ability to tap gens so a Survivor has to spend time starting a gen (much like the Killer takes 3 seconds to kick it)
- make the exit gates regress so survivors actually have to make a tactical decision on going for the hook or going for the exit gate
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@lordfart said:
Also the unpredictability of each DBD match is what has drawn me in and kept me here for years now. Some things have gotten pretty stale so when I come across survivors running some weird ######### that confuses me in the game because I'm not used to playing around it, I get real excited. Having a more predictable idea of what you're gonna be up against in this game is like... the antithesis of fun for me
I hear you
I like diversity in perks, and I'd love to see nerfs and buffs put in place to encourage a wider diversity of perks to be used.
Also, I think at its core DBD is not a competitive/balanced game, it is a game about creating fun and tense situations, and the unpredictability adds to this.
I just feel like limiting the Survivors to being more like "classes", by limiting their perk choices, would be one way to make the game take steps towards being truly balanced and competitive.
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@Yamaoka said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2621531#Comment_2621531
First of all I didn't say "I never play survivor". I said:
"I don't play survivor too frequently anymore". Major difference and you know that.
Secondly MMR doesn't reset making the frequency of survivor matches trivial so if I escape a billion times, then play nothing but killer for ages, my survivor MMR will still be high.
Lastly I have played a ton of survivor matches since MMR in total. It's just the frequency is a lot lower than my killer matches because repairing gens and looping has become boring for me.
And since I escape as survivor far more often than not my MMR obviously will be on the high side. That's how MMR works.
You escape often = high MMR.
Not sure why it's hard to believe that someone has high MMR as survivor with a total of 5000 hours of experience in DBD.
No wait, 5000 hour low MMR player here. What's gens again?
gens are the things other survivors seem to cluster around, they are quite a good way of losing the Killer if they chase you as you can run at the gens and the killer might chase someone else
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Other than the game not starting because someone disconnected during loading, I think I've been disconnected from a game (by the games fault, not my own) maybe once in a year of playing.
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@TheDuhJ said:
Healing takes 8 seconds, but slapping someones back takes 1. Your move
Even ignoring the fact that you need to chase someone through pallets to get a hit, you also have a hit cooldown, so it isn't even 1 second if they stand completely still.
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@IronKnight55 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2621544#Comment_2621544
Not always. What about stealth killers? I thought I was safe against a GF and started to heal myself only to lose DS and get hooked again, lol. I never bring DS without Spinechill anymore. Like I already said: I think making it work twice will make it much better.
TBH this might be a valid point, making it work twice would totally screw over someone genuinely tunneling.
The reason I hate DS is because I used to always get caught out with it and get hit by an end-game DS when I'm not really "tunneling", I'm just fighting for a last kill. Quite often in these cases one DS is enough for them to escape anyway. Although just trying to think if a 2nd would make it too annoying.
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@IronKnight55 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2620949#Comment_2620949
It's exactly the same for me. Camping/ tunneling has been pretty bad since the DS nerf (pretty obvious why killers wanted it gutted, lol). The only thing boons have made killers do (more) is abandon less chases so that survivor's don't get away and heal. That's the only difference I've noticed.
The "nerf" to DS made it work in exactly the same way if you are legitimately tunneling though
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2621514#Comment_2621514
It is the same if you're in solo q.
It's not though, you still have to figure out and play around 4 perks, compared to 16 for the Killer.
Not to mention the fact that some perks tend to always or never be ran on certain Killers, which isn't the case for Survivors.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Bad idea. Was already discussed multiple times in different variations, this would just create a Survivor-Meta. There would be 0 reason to play most of the Survivors if you have to dedicated a few Perk Slots (in your idea, at least 2) to the Teachable Perks. Like, I main Nea, I got all of her Cosmetics and she has the most stuff in her inventory (even if I dont use Items very often, basically only for Tomes). So I am stuck with Balanced Landing (which is one of the worst Exhaustion Perks, but since I dont run any, it would be alright) and then either Urban Evation or Streetwise. Great. Meanwhile, a Bill can have two Meta-Perks. Same goes for Meg.
It would also make cherry-picking for Killers way easier. Killers already cherrypick their matches (e.g. by looking at profiles for SWF to get the easier games), if a bunch of Bills and Megs joins, they would probably just chicken out. But if there is a Lobby full of Ashs, Aces and Quentins, they would hit the ready button ASAP.
And even IF Survivors stick with their Mains, they wont get any Skins for them. There would be 0 reason for BHVR to create a Ace-Skin if they can just create another Meg-Skin, which will sell way better due to better Perks which can be used.
Also, the same can be applied to Killer - why should a Blight be allowed to run Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer? Why not limit it to only one Perk form other Killers? So that they dont have the best Slowdown available + BBQ for massive BPs? I can answer that - because it would be bad game design.
Players should be free in whatever they want to use. It might not be liked by everyone, but they can do whatever they like. No reason to give any unreasonable limitations.
As a Survivor you are usually strategising around a Killers power, as much as you are playing around the perks. Plus you only have to figure out 4 perks. The Killer has to figure out and play around 16 perks.
On the skins point, yeah I don't see this idea being feasible because people already invested into "mains". I guess I'm wondering for peoples opinions on if this was in DBD 2 or a remake lol
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2621469#Comment_2621469
Oh I did. What your post means is that people would only be playing survivors who have at least a good perk.
As someone who mains Quentin and all his perks are garbage, I would have to main someone else so I wouldnt have a garbage perk in my layout that I do not need.
Like we do not see enough of the same survivors already, while some almost no one plays them... That would just make it worse.
As a Quentin you could still run DS and UB. Or DH and Windows. Those two perks will get you a long way. You just don't get to also run Iron Will and BT
At a high MMR sure, you would start seeing more of the same characters, only amongst the tryhard echelons though and everyone would be running Bill and David.
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@egg_ said:
Can we apply the same for killer, so we don't get nurses with 4 stackable slow downs?
I don't think it is a fair comparison because:
- There are 4 Killer perks, so each survivor only has to figure out 4 perks (or 1 each if it is SWF). Not to mention that the main slowdown perks are immediately obvious if they are in use (Corrupt/Ruin are easy to spot, Tinkerer/Discordance less so I guess)
- There are 4 survivors so the Killer has to figure out 16 perks in total, add to this that the Killer also has to deal with the same characters being ran which complicates this
- Much of the counterplay for the Survivor is based on the Killers power, it isn't hard to figure out who the Killer is. As a Killer, pretty much all strategic decisions need to be made around perks, and many of these perks have no indication until they are used.
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@JoByDaylight said:
Yes there are a lot of facecampers out there, sadly. More than before. I get why some people think they have to camp to get kills, which is sad because it not only ruins the gameplay for themselves but also for everyone else that trial. Im mostly talking about facecamping early in the game, not in the EGC or something..
Why is facecamping worse than everything else? Because it totally rejects the suvivor being facecamped from actually playing the game. After 6 games the other day I was facecamped at 4 or 5 gens remaining in 3 of them. I was playing with a friend. Half of my gaming time I was on a hook, totalle unable to actually play the game. Really made me think, is this worth it?? After spending all this time on the grind and money on every DLC, outfits etc, I am kinda stuck though. I never play enough to invest time with a new game wither.. UGH!
Playing in a good SWF, this is not a big problem - you just do gens and get out. Playing Solo or with 1 friend you are hopeless against a facecamping killer (Bubba). The others will use time roaming the hook before figuring out the killer is camping. It is basically a free 4K with no gameplay.
The weird part is the joke is on the killer, for getting these 4K matches means that they will face tougher opponents and then they are stuck with facecamping to even have a chance.. haha!
Again I'm not blaming anyone, but this is not a healthy sign.
THIS GAME IS AN EVIL CIRCLE.
Facecamping doesn't result in a 4K that often though, and eventually you will get to an MMR where the Survivors know what you are up to and it will net you 2K max.
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@Firellius said:
There's like 4 survivors that actually have more than one usable perk, this change would just reduce the game to Dwight, Claudette, David and Bill all the time.
Good luck selling skins for Zarina, Ash, Elodie, Yun-Jin, etc.
Yeah I know it is never going to happen, given that people already have their "mains" and much of the profitability of the game is tied to skins and customization. Just trying to dream I guess.
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@legacycolt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2621474#Comment_2621474
I’m always trying to be unpredictable as survivor and it helps me a lot to survive.
Well by unpredictable I'm assuming that means you are not running a pure meta build, so your builds might still be achievable under this system, but not sure.
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@legacycolt said:
No thank you, solo q is hard enough.
What build do you need to run in order to win in Solo Queue?
For me I usually use Kindred, which means I could run that on any Survivor, under my proposed system. Other than that it is usually DH and Windows. I could still run this on any character, or play David and Jane. I still have one perk slot to choose whatever I want.
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@Marigoria said:
Lol no
I doubt you even read the full post, given length of the text and the fact you responded in less than a minute.
But thanks for bringing this intellectual discussion! Keep on contributing.
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@stvnhthr said:
So the biggest take away is with SWF escape is WAY easier.
I play solo and still feel like I escape more than I don't. With a bit of stealth and working on the right gens you can make a game unwinnable for the Killer quite easily (if your teammates have some basic skills)
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@Bangarang said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2620295#Comment_2620295
I do similar things! I haven’t played much Huntress so I’ve been practising with her recently and I’m doing no add-ons and no perks so that I can get a true feel for how she plays. I’ve been loving some of the hatchet hits I’m able to get, but I definitely need practise as I sometimes aim too high or too low. 😂
I'd recommend using a target overlay tbh. Some of her long range shots are basically impossible without one. You can think about taking the overlay off when you've mastered the timing and spacing of both the slow and fast hatchet shots.
Also don't forget that the dipping/slow shots can be great going over certain loops and also catching survivors out if you mix them in with the fast shots
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@Kiikii said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2620362#Comment_2620362
Tunnelling can net a win but sometimes 4 kills and maintains your pip no gained. So technically a loss.
Yeah but the pipping system expects you to 12 hook, when a high MMR team will be able to pop all gens before you've got 4 hooks. So it's "technically" a loss according to a completely broken system.
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@ShyPirate said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2620536#Comment_2620536
I would be a hard no on changing the number of perks that can be equipped for a match.
However, even though it's probably an unpopular opinion, I think it might be interesting (and make survivor selection more relevant) if one survivor perk slot could only equip one of the chosen survivor's teachable perks.
Unfortunately if that were to happen I'd have to give up lovely Zarina and play Dwight and David constantly.
And that's fine, cause if you played David or Dwight I know on sight I probably need to play around DH or Bond/Prove Thyself (not that the last two have much to play around).
Basically I've had games as Killer where I've lost kills because of big For the People plays, etc. It seems correct to play assuming that no one runs that perk, as in most games slugging would be correct but that perk hard counters it. At least if you were running Zarina I'd have an inkling it was coming and could prepare for it.
Again, anyone could run FTP, but they'd have to make a hard decision to omit DH or DS. Survivor builds ATM are too strong.
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One way to find out, just lemme get a pen and a nail
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@The_BiggCheeze said:
It's the same on killer. Haven't played huntress in over a year and just played her for a daily. First match got a 4k on new survivors (i should have got paired with a little bit better survivors) and the match after I get a toxic 4 man swf with all meta perks tbagging at the exits. That's quite the damn jump in matchmaking.
two matches is not much of a sample size though, maybe one of the two games was a blip
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@Viamont said:
i been tinking this for a bit, specially since a group 3 body blocked me one time and it was the most frustrating thing i have endured when it comes to bodyblocks. In regard to that killers should be allowed to charge their M1 atack for half a second, upon impact the survivor should be sent down to the ground stunned for a moment with one damage of healt, that way IF they want to body block they should also take in consideration they might get downed themselves, killer will still lose some time with the atack but at the very least survivors will have to be smart about it or risk giving the killer another hook/kill
I feel like allowing the Killer to whack space through a survivors hit box would be an easier fix than adding a new type of attack to the game (we'd get about 5 bugs for free with that anyway)
@Seraphor said:
A small bit of Mad Grit should be made basekit; when you hit a survivor while carrying someone, the wiggle meter pauses for the duration of the animation lock.
Yeah I agree, Killer already moves slow as heck so if you manage to hit someone whilst carrying someone else then you deserve a small reward (in this case, no progress on the wiggle meter for the cooldown at least). Hookblocking atm is not punishable enough.
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can't they just "re-use" the mechanic from Pyramid Heads power? Whenever you hook someone, its now a quick animation and they get teleported to the furthest hook. It is also a slight buff to Killer as you don't lose so much time hooking anymore. Also removes slugging as a problem. End of face camping!
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@White_Owl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2620362#Comment_2620362
That is true for a ton of other things... And still, tunneling in those scenarios are the opposite of what you should do. If you realize a chase is gonna take a lot of time, you are just throwing the match by insisting on it.
The reason I hate DH though is that it comes out halfway through the chase, so you already invested the time into the chase, and you realise you already passed the point of stop chasing when it's too late. Then stopping the chase at that point means you've wasted all the time so it feels like a lose lose
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1 is probably too extreme, how about start with reducing to 3 or 2?
Another idea I had was to allow survivors to run 2 perks from other characters, and 2 of their own adept perks. It would somewhat reduce the power-level of some survivor builds... You won't see everyone running DS/BT/DH/IW anymore. Maybe if it's a David King you can run DS/BT/DH and WGLF, however it means that if you see a David in game, you can pretty much guarantee he has DH.
You can still get powerful builds but it restricts it a little bit, and makes the game slightly more predictable for the Killer. Survivors for the most part play around a Killers power. Killers have to play around perks, and you have to figure those out in game.
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The problem with this is, however big the radius is, face campers can just go 1 inch outside the radius.
You can make the radius huge, but the problem is then that the maps aren't that big. Let's say there are 2 gens next to the person you downed. You simply don't have time to get to another hook, and are forced to hook near the gens. You now can't defend the gens due to this debuff, because the gens exist within the radius of the hook.
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I approve this idea
Face camping still works at 5.1 metres, you see.
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Have you been playing lots of Killer in the meantime?
If you are good at Killer you will be a good survivor quickly, as you already know how to loop, and hence know how to counter loop. It's the same the other way around.
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I'm guessing it encourages constant, regular play, rather than short term binges. Since you can't just save up points in a short time and update characters later. It encourages you to play often, and spend often. Which I would assume results in a more stable player count overall?
I'm probably wrong though.
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If you don't disconnect then you won't get hit with the disconnect penalty I guess
/thread
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@Eredestra said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2620461#Comment_2620461
That's his shameful playstyle if he wants to camp or not.
But man is it infuriating to see how 2 kills is not atleast a single point of rank up.
Yeah I agree, the ranking system is a total joke on this game and is a good way to stress yourself out
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The irony here though, if the guy didn't just M1 on gens, Hexy would have probably camped him and then said gg
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2620441#Comment_2620441
I believe there should always be hope.
It is a game of 4v1, if you seriously think survivors should still be able to win in a 2v1, then you have finally given us proof you are fully biased towards survivors, or don't understand how game balancing works.
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2620441#Comment_2620441
I believe there should always be hope.
don't ever play Killer then
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2620414#Comment_2620414
You are admitting that the endgame is so killer sided, you literally need to walk up to the killer and asked to be killed?
we're talking about the endgame when 2 or more survivors are already dead. So yes, obviously that is Killer-sided, in a situation where the Killer already killed half of the team