Haddix
Haddix
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been abusing boil over in a swf all day, very fun.
people say it's not a big deal because nobody runs it, but...that doesn't stop YOU from running it and ruining a match for a killer.
but hey man, I'm having a good time. i don't mind at all.
edit: i'd like to clarify that i think it's stupid and was an awful change that's very unhealthy, but me "not minding it" is because i'm enjoying using it. i guarantee you that once I play killer, i'm going to hate it. i'm not gonna fault players for using it, though, I'll fault the devs, just like everything else in this game that's BS.
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@SilentShepherd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767983#Comment_2767983
Myers = to instadown, needs to charge up Tier 3, which takes a long while, AND is not forever. It runs out and he has to do it all over again.
Ghostface = to instadown, has to stalk you to fully charge
Bubba = to instadown.... nothing. he has to do nothing. he just runs at you and starts swinging.
right, and the aforementioned killers are bad killers
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Don't know why BHVR's designers saw The Game's high killrate for killers and decided the best way to make it "fair" was to add a bunch of mindless god pallets. Great job guys, don't add any interesting loops, just...artificially bump up the survival rate by slapping in no-gameplay pallets. Nice. Very nice.
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mmmmmmmmmm, but was that REALLY a skilled 5gen run in the first place, though???? did you REALLLLLY put forth any skill if you ended up DYING?! MMMMMMMMM IDK MAN...
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@Shaped said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2766792#Comment_2766792
Why do you call it special too?
I know you're asking Sluzzy, but you can tell OP is a very very casual inexperienced player by just their usage of that term lmfao
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@GeneralV said:
I understand where you are coming from, but touching a beloved killer like Michael sounds...a bit risky, in my honest opinion.
all they need to do is not freddy-ify him (i know who I'm replying to) and just keep what makes him currently appealing but add on to it and evolve it a bit.
keep stalking, keep tiers, keep 1shots, keep vaulting, keep the TR, etc. however, for him to be in line with modern killer design, it would make sense if he had an ACTUAL ability (something that isn't just M1 killer with stat boosts) that changes based on what tier he's in.
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pick top 3 killers, make post complaining about, ez lazy bait
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it's funny how it's kinda obvious you're a noob by just the phrasing
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@Mandy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2765626#Comment_2765626
That's pretty much exactly what he was saying. At the end the goal for survivors is to survive, the goal for killers is to kill - and that's effectively the win condition.
right but this is a skilled-based matchmaking system, not a win-based matchmaking system. fulfilling your goal in this video game does not require skill. if it were called a win-based matchmaking system, then this would all make sense to everyone.
people use edge cases like "Just play Bubba and use xyz perks/Just play claudette and hide all game with a key and Left Behind!" but those are extremes that aren't very convincing. they're brought up because they're replicable, so I understand why they're used in an argument, but they don't have a lot of weight when it comes to discussing how an MMR system gathers data from loads of games.
however, they are extremes of fairly common scenarios. I've recently escaped 17 games in a row, through the exit gates 16 of those times, and only a handful of those games did I actually express any real skill beyond "I can stick on a generator and put down boons." but here i am, gaining MMR. I'm not 1 out of a million either. there's a reason high mmr has watered down so much since it's been released.
you can then argue "well, that's YOUR experience after 17 escaped games as survivor, in the grand scheme that's nothing!" sure, but I'm gonna value my personal experience, because why wouldn't I. in 3.5k+ hours, i've played thousands of games where either side achieves a great end result but expressed but a sliver of real skill for the entirety of the match because it's DBD and there's a bunch of extremes that tip the balance to either side. my experience with SBMM reflects what I believe about SBMM; that it's not utilizing the right data. I'm gaining MMR in so many games for doing absolutely nothing but the bare minimum.
but whatever, this is all meaningless because none of it is actually discussed between the community and developers in any meaningful way. a QnA comes out, comments are made, people don't understand them/think they're ridiculous, and then we wait another 3 months for the same thing to happen again. this is a neverending cycle and no personal experience or collective thought from the community is going to top the value developers put into faulty statistics and the results they see, so oh well. when they have 20 years of experience that may or may not be any good, what reason do they have to throw a bone to people rambling and ranting about them being wrong despite their 20 years of experience? i'd probably feel the same exact way.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2761192#Comment_2761192
I totally understand where you're coming from here. As someone who watches every stream, you probably don't want to hear the same questions and answers again. But there's a lot of people who don't catch every single one, or who may tune it half way through a stream and miss the answer the first time. We try to keep the duplicate questions to a minimum, but when they're highly voted and frequently asked, we'll toss 'em back in there to spread the word a little more.
To put it simply, for every super hardcore player who catches all the news & Q&As, there's two or three more who play the game casually and check in on the news only every once in a while, if at all.
yeah, although I wasn't the biggest fan of the QNA personally, I don't think people should get onto you for this. it's unfair, most would do the same as a community manager.
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well, yeah. increasing the charge time of any killer without any real compensation will feel like hot garbage to play. viability aside, he just feels bad.
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@SunsetSherbet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2754512#Comment_2754512
They're literally nerfing him in the upcoming patch so it's not that crazy.
not wrong
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are you suggesting a clown nerf loooooooooooool
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2735761#Comment_2735761
I'll try to keep this shorter than my last post, but to touch upon a few of the points you've brought up:
1: On the subject of The Nurse, using pick rates as a determining factor is very shaky territory. First, you've gotta consider the fact that part of the reason she's picked less often is due in part to the bugs with her power. Even if someone likes The Nurse and is doing moderately well with her, it's totally within the realm of possibility that the bugs were too frustrating for them to continue playing. Secondly, pick rate is not a universal thing. While it stands it reason that she may not be picked at lower skill levels (owing to her higher learning curve), she becomes far more popular at higher skill levels. I won't speak for everyone, but I'm assuming at least some people would like to see more Killers pop up regularly in the higher skill levels.
But beyond this, The Nurse's bug fixes is also a prime example of something that has come up a lot over the years. Often times we're asked to focus on things like game health rather than content / balance, and The Nurse and her various bugs was often tied directly to that as a poster child of sorts. Fixing these issues did require a complete redo of her coding, but it's a prime example of us doing exactly that: Putting content / balance to the side to focus on fixing things. I totally understand if you're not pumped for this next Mid-Chapter, but it's a pretty shocking reaction to something that was asked of us very often (focusing on fixes/game health over content).
2: To think point of Circle of Healing, I just want to say that this is absolutely not something we're ignoring. We make a point out of letting things settle before making rash decisions these days. Between PTBs & live these days, the changes we make are almost always fairly minor. We've been burned in the past by making rash decisions when the initial feedback was rough. Nowadays, we try to let everything have some time to settle before we start thinking about how it should change. This gives us a better idea of where it actually sits rather than making a knee jerk reaction and hoping it works out. Circle of Healing is an even trickier scenario since it came bundled with an entirely new mechanic (boons), so it's very important that we see how things work before diving head first into changes.
That said, though, I can't reveal if/what will happen to Circle of Healing right here, just please keep in mind that there's always a cycle that looks like this:
- Something releases
- Wait for it to settle
- Determine if changes are needed
- Create changes
3: On the subject of Freddy, I feel like this something that often gets misconstrued as well. In reality, kill rates only play a small role. You compared him to The Nurse, and I'm really glad you did because she's the perfect example of why that's not the case. The Nurse overall has a fairly low kill rate (well below the rest of Killers), but that doesn't mean she's weak. She's tough to play, and in the right hands, she can be hands down the best. But that also isn't necessarily a problem because there's a ton of skill that goes into playing her extraordinarily well, and there's also a lot of skill that goes into playing against her well.
In the case of Freddy, on the other hand, you had a Killer that was very strong without needing much thought or skill. Dropping a couple traps at a loop would yield very strong results with very little risk or strategy. His slight tweaks aimed to make the strategy of spamming traps constantly while in a chase less viable.
On the point of lack of skill, I won't delve too far into this, but that is a very loaded point to make. Many developers play the game daily (typically not with BHVR tags in their name, they don't want to be recognized). I myself used to stream this game three times per week, and I was playing at the higher ranks just fine. Sure, not every game developer's going to be ready to jump on an eSports team, but expecting everyone working on a game to be able to play it at a competitive level is a frankly unrealistic standard, even if some of them are pretty good.
I was told by the designer who was in charge of adjusting Freddy that him being easy is not the reason for his high kill rate, but I could not agree. The reason why the Nurse is so low is because human error is an extremely common factor in how successful player are with her, as you said, whereas Freddy, who was weaker than a Nurse at her MAXIMUM potential (and that may or may not be something indicated by your data collection), was performing the best out of all characters because of his power level and ease of use.
Wouldn't the objectively better solution for "too easy for the level of strength" be to make a character harder, not weaker? If you make more room for error, then a killer will always be weaker on average statistically, which would allow for more interaction between survivor and killer and force players to improve at the character to reach his maximum potential. That's not what happened, though.
Why directly weaken rather than introduce more room for error? Changes of either nature can be mutually exclusive.
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i do think it's a really solid combo, but i think only casuals are gonna struggle against it a lot. like, i can see my team just falling for scourge deadman's bait every time.
i know I'll be looking out for it once i know it's in the game, so it's not gonna be HUGE (scourge is still really good even without the deadmans part) unless it's used on an artist, but again, it's just kinda casual/noobtrap that isn't something you can communicate very well with others.
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@Blue_Archer33 said:
...is.. is this new information? Are these voice lines you're mentioning newly added..?
yes, a BUNCH of new voice lines were added, voiced by doug bradley.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2731648#Comment_2731648
I really didn't intend for that to be a snarky comment. Was just my observation that you threw my response out the window and posed the same question over again.
Your point is much more clear now.
I agree with you, I think they do a pretty poor job responding to problems (even glaring ones), and they have a history of releasing content that is incredibly tone-deaf. I don't work for BHVR, so obviously I don't know what their internal structure looks like, and how that effects the game's development, but whatever process they do have in place is wildly inefficient.
The second half of the developer notes are all changes I probably would have thought up on the drive over to the office. An hours worth of work at most. These are the kind of changes I think they should be implementing every week, because they are easy number changes to program and the worst that happens is they break the game for a week--instead of months where we all scream and shout and wait until the next major bug fix.
But when it comes to listening to community feedback, I think there is a major case of "too many cooks in the kitchen." There are a lot of strong opinions on this forum, and very few people seem interested in having an actual conversation.
Just look at the Feedback page on these forums. Its dead. No one actually wants to discuss potential improvements to the game or promote community-made ideas. Its no wonder that so many feedback-related posts are created in General Discussions, because everyone knows their ideas are Dead on Arrival in Feedback.
As a result, there is no real serious discussion happening on these forums.
It must be really difficult for the devs to filter out the noise, especially when mods are constantly punting conversations over to Feedback that are far from constructive.
BHVR missed the boat when they decided not to use Fog Whisperers as consultants. Not only are Fog Whisperers playing their game as a full-time job, but they are directly interacting with the community. They may not always have the best ideas, but they've got their finger on the pulse.
I have almost nothing to say but you hit the nail on the head. All extremely good points.
Though I don't greatly value the opinions of fog whisperers like others, you once again made a great point that even if they're not all-knowing geniuses, they definitely can come close to good ideas, and with enough collaboration with the community and amongst themselves, the Fog Whisperers who ARE most passionate and knowledgable about balance (and not just balance, because sometimes things are balanced but unhealthy) could've absolutely been a GREAT resource for the devs. FAR more than their current data is. As you say, the forums definitely hold some civil, constructive discussions, but they're DROWNED by how much garbage is on here. Filtering that feedback through knowledgeable members of the community and having it relayed it to the devs would do so much good for us (if it's actually listened to).
Whether or not you like the idea of content creators having so much influence (I'm someone who usually heavily opposes that), it's either that or this, and I would prefer that any day given it was a GOOD system that gives thorough, valuable feedback for the devs to use. It'd be a huge improvement over what we have now. I hope there's still an opportunity for this someday, but I fear it's incredibly unlikely or impossible at this point.
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@Axx said:
It would be too good. Maybe with 15 seconds tops, but ain't no 45 seconds seeing a live version.
15 seconds would do nothing. literally nothing. by the time you'd get to a gen as 90% of the roster, the perk would have 1 second left, amounting in 1 whole second of gen blocking.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2731100#Comment_2731100
The bigger picture is that they have a vision for each killer, and they adjust add-ons based on that vision. ...as was the case with Marvin's Blood.
You're looking for a reason. I told you the reason.
Apparently, you prefer to just assumed BHVR is a studio filled with idiots.
You're looking for a reason. I told you the reason.
You did not, and I stated this. I'm looking for a reason as to why all of these meaningless changes are prioritized.
Apparently, you prefer to just assumed BHVR is a studio filled with idiots.
Nope. I'd prefer not to throw snarky comments at each other either, so keep them to yourself. I'm not insulting your intelligence or your deductions, and I actually validated the reason (for individual changes) that you provided. It makes SENSE for BHVR to use "identity" as reasoning to change things regardless of their place in the overall balance of the game or character, even if I don't personally agree with that reasoning. However, as I said, you're missing my overall point. It's not about Marvin's Blood or Toy Sword and the individual cases as to why they were changed, it's about priority and how it's been consistently bad, confusing, insulting, and out-of-touch with the community for a very long time now, and, since you introduced your argument, given that you're correct in your assumption about the value they place on the identity of characters, why they'd value identity and the minuscule, time-wasting changes they're making to adjust their personal visions for the game over balance when balance and the health of the game are far more of an issue at the current moment.
It's like a surgeon who's fixing a broken toe and treating a cut on the leg while a brain is leaking blood, with a whole room of people behind them SCREAMING to just address the brain. Sure, maybe fixing that broken toe and patching up that little cut on the leg would be good things to address later on, but you cannot deny that the leaking brain is far more of a problem, and neither can you blame all of those other people in the room for getting more frustrated for every minute the surgeon ignores that problem.
I hope you understand my point this time around.
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bhvr being bhvr. i have no idea man. they are the only people in the WORLD to think the things they do and they're just not aware enough to realize that. i don't get it.
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@WishIcouldmain said:
Truly I don’t think the devs are biased they’re just very inconsistent. Take last chapter you decide to nerf Wraith for being a wee bit OP. Then bring back viable three blink Nurse because that’s not as strong apparently. Including this update buffing a Blight add-on because he needs it apparently. While nerfing Twins add-ons
Agreed. They don't have a bias when they have very little to base their bias on in the first place. Their understanding doesn't come from being some survivor main, killer main, or some enlightened centrist main. Their understanding comes from inconsistent numbers that are ever-changing. They don't pave the road that they follow when it comes to balance, they let numbers do that for them. Meanwhile, everyone else here that DOES play this video game expects them to do the same as they would, which is to NOT blindly follow numbers and instead use good experience alongside statistics to make genuinely good decisions. That's why this whole community gets fed up so much. We have more first-hand experience and understanding than they do.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2730571#Comment_2730571
The reason thematics is as important as balance is because a character's theme is the reason you play them--it is their identity.
Balance is such an iterative process; it is a lot of trial and error, looking at data, listening to feedback, etc. If you just follow that process wherever it leads, the final result can end up very far from where you started. Identity is the captain that stears the ship.
So when any developers are designing a game (or elements within a game), all the changes they make are held up against the game's identity and asked "does this change your identity?"
If yes, then they go back to the drawing board and try to find a better solution.
Sometimes, in the case of Freddy, the developers will decide to abandon an identity and establish a new one.
Marvin's blood did not remove or significantly change his identity.
If something slightly alters the identity that Game Designer #4 intended, then its position in the game should be assessed. First of all, to a degree, we have to recognize that addons are intended to change the killer's identity. It's when they go too far is when they're problematic (i.e extremely transformative to the point where the killer is FAR different in a way that's not very healthy).
Is it stripping the killer from their entire identity? No.
If it WERE to, could that "new identity" be adopted as an improvement on the original? Sure thing, because game design as a whole is an iterative process.
Is it unbalanced? No.
Is it widely agreed upon that it feels bad to play against? No.
Is it too transformative? No.
Is it even really TALKED about? No.
Is it used a lot? Yes.
Is it used a lot because it makes Nemesis far too strong of a character? No.
Is it used a lot because it's a useful add-on that's more appealing than the other weak links in the addon set? Likely.
Is Game Designer #4 very happy that it doesn't PERFECTLY align with the identity that they intended Nemesis to have? Sure! What should we do about it? Give them a "too bad."
Why "too bad?" Because there are so. many. other. places. to direct focus, time, and thought towards; things that THOUSANDS of people are asking for, not just one person in BHVR's office. This change is meaningless. It's unnecessary as hell. So are all of the others that I listed.
I'm not here to talk about Marvin's Blood my friend. That's one teeny tiny little piece of the much bigger picture that shines a light on the awful design philosophy that BHVR has. I'm done talking about Marvin's Blood. We disagree. That'll be all.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2730269#Comment_2730269
Dude, you need to calm down.
Just because you don't understand, doesn't mean there isn't a good reason.
While you might only care about balancing changes, BHVR values thematics and design intention.
Looking at the discussions around Trickster's Main Event, and the Developer's desire to build up to a crescendo with his power, we can reason that Nemesis is designed with a similar power curve in mind. Nemesis is not supposed to be super strong early in the trial--his Tier-system is an intentional design choice, as is the limited number of antidotes.
Early in the trial, survivors can shrug off an infection by picking up an antidote, and pallets can actually be used to put some distance between the survivor and the killer. As the trial goes on, Nemesis grows in power--quite literally as he Tiers up, and by proxy of a deminishing number of antidotes remaining in the trial.
Marvin's Blood completely negates the thematic intentions of Nemesis' design, and provides players with an underwhelming shortcut to the finish line.
Dude, you need to calm down.
I understand that I'm being a little dramatic, but that statement has never once calmed anyone down in the history of humankind. Convince me instead. Convince literally everyone else here.
Just because you don't understand, doesn't mean there isn't a good reason.
While you might only care about balancing changes, BHVR values thematics and design intention.
That is not a good reason. This is a multiplayer PVP game; you don't value "thematics" over important, significant balance changes that can improve the quality of this game. Neglecting good changes in favor of things that nobody else but BHVR's balance team deem an issue creates such a huge disconnect between the community and them. What you're providing as reasoning is the kind you'd see in patchnotes for a game like Fallout or Skyrim, not Dead By Daylight.
Either way, that reason alone does not help me in understanding their thought process. If they're valuing thematics, then I can get why individual changes are made, but I don't understand THAT'S what they value for their multiplayer PVP game. Why is Marvin's Blood's nerf being more thematic for Random Game Designer #3 and #4's intended gameplay flow for Nemesis more important over 1. Balance 2. Actual changes that we are asking for.
I don't care if Toy Sword being 0.05% weaker is more in-line with the 3rd paragraph of Twins' lore, nobody is asking for it. This wouldn't be that much of a problem if this was just an isolated incident, but this has been happening over, and over, and over, and over again. This community is dissatisfied. Prioritizing so much ######### that's barely relevant to the design of this game is an i n s u l t to that. This is the type of garbage that is filling up more than half of a midchapter patch. This is what they dedicated time and resources towards thinking and changing instead of things that we are asking for.
So TLDR, to respond to your first statement, I DO understand why specific changes were made. I DON'T understand why those changes are prioritized, nor why their reasoning is anything but balance (not thematics, not design intention) when so many things could benefit from the effort that was put towards these meaningless changes.
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@SunsetSherbet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2730136#Comment_2730136
This is why statistics should be handled by a statistician and not game developers.
This.
But we're NEVER gonna get that. We are stuck with this because they are extremely stubborn and keep a steady flow of cash coming in, so why care, right?
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@Brokenbones said:
Acknowledge the cheating problem for a start
Thank you for mentioning that. It's been a major problem for months and hasn't gotten a SINGLE comment from BHVR.
I feel like we're working with AI. I'm just so sad about this.
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@MrCalac123 said:
They look at raw numbers and that's it. It is the absolute laziest way to decide what gets changed, they literally, OBJECTIVELY do NOT play their own game, and yet go forward with these decisions anyway.
I have nothing else to say, I am simply ashamed of them and I loathe how they do not care about their game at all.
Nemesis is a peak example of what I am talking about, they nerfed his best addons because they were overused, but didn't even acknowledged that 99% of his addons are actual asscheeks. The addons were not even broken or anything, but they still got nerfed.
Pure, 100% undeniable laziness.
This is why I'm so fed up. There are SO MANY people here who play this game a ton and have so many great ideas for healthy balance changes and fun gameplay ideas that would improve the gameplay loop...but the people who ARE in charge, the ones who are making these changes, are making them off of raw numbers. I know they argue that they play their own game, I know Almo2001 used to stream this game every other night or so, but that doesn't MEAN anything. What makes that mean something, what SHOWS that they understand the community, is reflected in the changes that they make.
The changes they make are not based on good experience playing this game. I haven't heard a single person complain about MIKHAEL'S EYE or MARVIN'S BLOOD being too strong of an addon. That is PURE, PURREEEEE ignorance. It was a change that was EXTREMELY obviously made from blind faith in statistics, and I doubt those statistics even indicated they were too strong.
I understand they're minor, but it's not the changes themselves, it's what they represent in how the devs prioritize and make changes. It saddens me. It saddens me so much.
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dead man's is still mostly garbage on it's own. with pain resonance though? THAT'LL be good.
OR on artist. other than that, it's still a bad perk.
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This is a dev team that only uses statistics as a way to understand their game. Big number for usage on this addon? Hmmm, let's nerf it. Must be super strong! This'll encourage diversity, while we simultanously give these tiny buffs to addons that will still remain hot useless garbage! We don't know that because only STATS can tell us, but that's what we believe!
But yknow, for some reason that doesn't apply to things that ACTUALLY need changing. Thank god marvins blood and stale biscuit were touched before alchemist ring, COH, DH, and NOED, right?!
Thank you for the stellar work, BHVR. I'm so glad that you CANNOT look away from your statistics.
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badham needs an entire rework. start from 0 with it. it's embarrassingly bad.
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@Tr1nity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2727499#Comment_2727499
Hey at least they’re doing it at all.
i agree, but it's just at a painful snail's pace. every time they say something like this, it's like "REALLY? WOW BHVR, NO WAY! MANY THANKS FOR THE SHOCKING REVELATION!" on top of that, they're also going to make, and already have made, misguided decisions/statements with data.
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that's how they are. they literally need data to understand things that the community has been saying for 5 YEARS NOW.
it's also very no-brainer. of course swf is going to be far stronger than solo.
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if you got a direct bottle hit, then yeah, that'd be fine. otherwise, it'd be too easy.
wouldn't make him op, just very bland. he already is pretty bland.
maybe if it made you vault SLOWER, like by 20% of something small but noticeable. i'd rather his antidote get a buff though, it has more potential for skill expression.
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@Fantasy said:
So it's kinda like a killer's lunge attack?...
it can't, because they don't cancel each other out. dead hard tops a lunge. it also provides distance. if a killer's lunge went further or had 0 missed attack cooldown at the end of it, then it would be more comparable/the same.
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there's a lot of 50/50, which is technically very balanced. it's extremely hard though. looping him well is stupidly satisfying but it's also really awful feeling when an oni downs you in 2 seconds. but yeah, i'd say he's loopable and balanced despite his power being very very strong.
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once you stop running DH and improve at the game, you understand why exactly it's unnecessary and way too strong. i almost never use it anymore and am very happy without it.
there are genuinely a lot of fun and useful survivor perks and builds, but nobody realizes that because everyone has to spam DH every single game. and why wouldn't you, if you wanna run the best build you can? it's just not healthy.
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not a killer main anymore but I'm on a 2man swf winstreak with boons every game. they're basically extra teammates. auto-win if people know what they're doing, the killer literally cannot generate pressure and you can FEEL it.
they're dumb as hell, easily the most broken ######### to be added to the game in years, but boy are they fun.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Twins usually have the highest pick rate in comp when Nurse and Blight are banned, so it makes sense that he has them there.
it's true, and they're high on a comp tier list atm, but that's because literally all healing perks, anti-slug perks, and medkits are completely banned. there's no wonder at all why twins are so high on HIS tier list, as he casted a tourney where they slaughtered every single game, even against really good players.
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he has a very weird viewpoint on dbd killer strength, with "oppressive 1v1 killers" always landing in his top of A/S tiers, even if those killers are stupidly bad or inefficient in the big picture.
he's also overrating twins likely because he casted a tournament in which they won every single game they played, against extremely good players too. but that was in a tourney where all healing perks, anti-slug, and medkits were completely banned against them. all of which can slaughter twins in public games. they're just too high risk high reward to be an S tier killer.
do not understand A tier for billy either.
tofu has some good takes and he's a good player, but i think he's just kind of a rambling veteran with opinions of the past that has very little people agreeing with him in 2022. nothing personal, i think he even acknowledges this himself lol.
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she'll be able to put down pools of hair that slow survivors by -15%. she'll also be able to teleport to gens. on top of that, survivors can interact with a well to uncurse themselves, which makes them immune to her pools of hair for 90 whole seconds.
i think that sounds like an extremely creative power. anyone with me?
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@Shroompy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2723216#Comment_2723216
I was thinking slightly faster than the Max throwrate he currently has, just fast enough to be able to turn a corner and try to get 3 cheeky knife throws.
With the faster movement speed while doing so and the audio cue of him pulling out the knives, I think it creates a unique back and forth similar to Huntress, where both wides have a chance at outplaying each other.
okay, i see, that doesn't sound bad then. actually feels a little more streamlined.
although i like current trickster, i think your main event idea is a very creative callback to the theories about time reversal back when his teaser came out. I'm all over time travel stuff so naturally, I'm going to be into it. i also respect reworks and power/perk concepts that are not based around extremely generic ideas that everybody parrots. i appreciate the thought and creativity, it sounds like it came from a dev.
however, I'm confused by your idea for the Flurry. what's the usage of this ability that you're seeing?
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@GannTM said:
I’d consider Lopro Chains to be a bit overrated as I feel like it’s easily countered by just taking a corner. Spiked Boots massively increases the turn rate which is a big deal so I’ll take the boots.
the biggest strength of lopro is zoning, not for hits. that's why it's rated so highly esp in competitve.
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yeah this year was total hot garbage for this game. since September, I've never played it less.
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Tuned Carburetor is only good with Engravings, otherwise it's hot garbage. Lopro is just always good, especially for pallet zoning, which I don't think the guy above me realizes.
Sooo
- Lopro
- Tuned Carburrator WITH DEATH ENGRAVINGS
- Spiked Boots
- Pighouse Gloves (that rework really sucked lol)
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dont mind her. i like facing her ranged crows, her 1v1 is just chain tiles or hope she doesn't time her crow launch properly, otherwise I'll get hit. when you've got tiles to chain, i think it's fine to face, but even if i don't, it's whatever. i just get hit and move on, either run to my boon and heal or overcoom away and extend the chase.
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very interesting.
- Sends out a short burst of 3 Knives.
how quickly is he throwing these knives?
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The movement speed buff in ADS still keeps him far worse than pre-nerf, because you didn't have to ads before. Essentially, you were 110% while aiming with how quick his gun was wound up. The only other basekit "buff" he got was that stun buff, from 4 to 3 seconds. They never once stated he was overperforming but just felt unfair, yet did virtually nothing to balance out the changes to keep him fun and viable. Thus, from a design perspective, unless they deemed him broken OP, that was an objectively terrible change for a multiplayer PVP game.
Deathslinger is not some singeplayer boss. He's a playable character. You don't nerf a playable character for being too frustrating to face, you READJUST their strength.
I really don't know how this game has been out for 5 1/2 years and stuff like this STILL happens.
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@Akumakaji said:
Bubba with both his Iri add-ons is just some deranged mofo. I play this combo every once in a while, and nothing can prepare the survivors for whats comming. I once got 3 survivors down in one activation! I disturbed an unsave unhooking in the classic Bubba fashion, but then kept chasing behind the unhooked survivor with his BT and hit him twice, then noticed another survivor at some nearby gen and also caught that one. The last survivor managed to pick one of the others up, by the time I had hooked two, but the game was pretty much over by that time and I gave the last one tha hatch ^^
you're better off using iridescent flesh + chili, since carb tuning guide decreases your speed, and it'll consume all tokens for breaking a pallet which can suck. chili gives the same benefit without the downsides of tuning guide. it's only worth using if you don't like timing your charges.
iri flesh is really nice though, i like it.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2721992#Comment_2721992
Hmm.
- Fang is still decent, but it has a big trade-off.
- Nurse's bookmark is nutso.
- Honestly, I find Demo's soda to be a bit stronger. People also sleep on the Lighter, which can be used to keep an entire team Blind.
- Plague's seal is decent, especially against teams that refuse to cleanse.
- Hag's shackles are nice, but they have a huge trade off in that you can't use traps to shunt people's camera around.
- Finger is very strong.
- Pig...now I really like Video+Ruleset 2 if I'm feeling mean. People will auto DC within the first 30 seconds of the game so I generally don't use it though.
how often have you used lichen? i see it as a huge upgrade over soda tbh. see EVERYONE no matter what they're doing (except lockers) while tping and for 3 seconds.
i guess if you miss them behind the gen then soda would be better in that specific scenario? but overall i don't see it being better in the majority of times personally.
sorta up to preference though, but i'd still argue that lichen is stronger and gives valuable team-wide information in every stage of the game whereas soda is too focused on one thing.
also i do like the brass lighter praise, it's very easy blindness.
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Most powerful/consistently great/positively transformative addons in the game (According to me).
? - Unsure
"Formerly" - No longer the case.
Spirit:
Mother Daughter Ring (+ Yakuyoke Amulet/Dried Cherry Blossom)
Blight:
Compound33
AlcRing
Blight Tag
Myers:
Tombstone
Pinhead:
(Formerly?) Engineer's Fang
Huntress:
(Formerly) Iridescent Head + Belt
NUrse:
Torn Bookmark
Kavanagh's Last Breath
(Formerly) Omegablink, 5 blink
Oni:
(Formerly) Scalped Topknot
Trickster:
(Formerly) Cut Thru U + Splash
DemoGORGON:
Leprose Lichen?
La Plaga:
Black Incense?
Iridescent Seal?
Hag:
Mint Rag
Rusty Shackles?
Based Clown:
Pinky Finger
Legion:
(Formerly) Frank's Mixtape
Billy:
(Formerly) Carb Tuning Guide
Pig:
(Formerly?) Tampered Timer + Crate of Gears?