Grandpa_Crack_Pipe
Grandpa_Crack_Pipe
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2756462#Comment_2756462
I agree with all those been great examples I'm just saying we need to be careful balance because of fun or unfun is a slippery slope. I think the biggest issue with TP seems to be that your teammates an idiot and you end up paying for it. I understand stand why that is frustrating but that is also the nature of a team game take fps for example if your doing awesome but you have teammates that just keep dying your going to pay for it even know your doing great.
Yes.
And I and a lot of other people seem to agree that TP is part of that list that BHVR simply missed and ought to correct.
The problem is the abruptness and speed of it-- you don't know they have TP until you've been booted back to the main menu. When you pay for a teammate's mistake, you go on the ground and onto a hook-- you could potentially die on your first hook, but at least have a chance to play the rest of the match out.
TP bypasses all of that. One left click and the entire game gets forcefully skipped for you. No downs, no hooks, no saves, no chase, no match. Usually because some peanut on your team stared at a gen and fed Myers 'till he 99'd his tier 3. It's one of the few things introduced in the Halloween update that wasn't severely overhauled from its incredibly silly release version.
I don't know what seems to exempt it from the list I just gave.
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@pseudechis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2756416#Comment_2756416
Yeah and in that lies the problem. People would be fine with almost anything if the killer was a really hard to beat computer.
But because its PVP everyone's sensibilities get hurt constantly and we have to pander to the sore losers and make everything fair rather than exciting.
I hope they make custom game bots one day because frankly PVP blows.
I don't understand why you're not just playing a single player horror game.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2756443#Comment_2756443
It is really tough especially if you nerf or rework TP you got to remember your taking something fun away from the killer. I do think alot of people forget that in the argument when then say it's not fun it needs to change, your making a change because x isn't fun for survivors but now you have taken something fun away from the killer.
I'm sure people also had fun with Iri head, old MoM, old DS, old Balanced, pre-nerf Moris, Keys and Instaheals, but taking something that a side might find fun away is baggage that clearly hasn't stopped good changes from happening.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2756416#Comment_2756416
The thing is fun been the number1 reason for change opens up a bag of worms because if fun is the reason for change then those crazy outliers you pointed out have a valid argument in why things need to be changed because there veiw of fun is just as valid as anyone else and where do you draw the line at what's ok because it's considered fun.
Alot of times people act like that because this isn't fun is there whole argument and everyone else that finds it fun or doesn't have an issue can also make a completely valid argument. So now you have multiple conflicting arguments but they are all still valid based on fun.
I'm not advocating for fun being the #1 balancing factor, i'm just advocating for it being a major consideration along with game balance.
You can have both. It's tough, but doable.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2756380#Comment_2756380
Yeah you could look at the extremes only but that doesn't change the fact that fun is completely subjective and balancing around an idea that can and will change for almost every person you ask isn't a good idea. Where's the middle ground in what's fun and what isn't. I can say DH isn't fun because I just don't find it fun to think I have a hit and them DH and have to continue chase for 5 more seconds and that's a legitimate reason in terms of it been fun.
Btw I'm not saying they shouldn't take fun into consideration but it shouldn't be the number 1 thing you base balance on.
Neither am I.
Taking fun into account is very clearly possible because it very definitely happens, but my problem starts when people scoff and put up quotation marks whenever """"fun"""" factors into changing anything, like it's some fairy tale told by liars to baby game developers.
Except people clearly can figure out what's generally fun and what isn't somehow, because we're still playing video games for some reason. Hope the "fun doesn't mean anything for balancing" crowd enjoy their validation and Dead Hards.
And you might be surprised to hear that i'm in favor of changing DH and a lot of other things that absolutely suck for killer, for balance and for fun.
@pseudechis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2756310#Comment_2756310
Yeah but it just seems so silly and childish to hate on it because you might potentially get eliminated by it in an elimination game.
There is this real mentality that it all has to be fair all the time or somehow its not fun, but in asymmetric survival horror its not really meant to be fair.
The "fairer" it gets the more boring it gets because I want Halloween not Scooby Doo. Like I said people want safe chases not intense scary chases and that just sucks gameplay wise given the game's theme.
You're playing a horror game. Everyone else is playing a multiplayer game. Asym or not, you play against other players and expect a fair shot.
You're here for an entirely different reason than almost every other player. But as long as you're having fun, go wild.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2756271#Comment_2756271
The problem with using fun as a balance point is fun is completely subjective what I find fun and you find fun could be complete opposite how are you supposed to balance around both opposite ideas of fun? You could ask 20 different people what they consider fun and get 20 different answers how you balance around that? Fair isn't subjective like fun you can ask was there counter play, did I mess up,did they make a really good play and thats why x happend.
Balancing for fun is a guaranteed way to make a bunch of people mad because they don't think that it's fun that way and you can't argue with them because they are right because what they find fun is completely there opinion.
Some people like stepping in bear traps and getting punched in the face.
Others like playing against old Legion.
There's always outliers. Doesn't suddenly mean fun is this invisible mythical force we just can't fathom or comprehend.
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@pseudechis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2756261#Comment_2756261
Hey each to their own but it is interactive just in a more intense way.
I for one really enjoy facing tombstone myers as survivor because its flee or be killed not just flee to waste time.
Chases often feel so safe as survivor that there really is no threat from the killer at all. Myers takes that and tips it on its head. You can't even finish a gen in his face because you may die and that's how it should be.
I'm scared of the terror radius rather than wait till the last minute and here comes the loopy train. Its a much better game.
But can you see why everyone else hates it?
@OpenX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2756271#Comment_2756271
Because it's a PvP game and people in this community seem to forget that PvP is zero sum. Especially an elimination game like DBD. One side having more fun directly equates to the other not having fun.
I read some post on here about "rah rah got tunneled with my fun build" when the build was like Head on, Breakout, Power Struggle and some other perk that only exists to annoy the killer. And yeah, having fun with that build means the killer is going to be miserable. Does it stop anyone from running it? Haha. Lmao.
So why is tombstone any different?
"People tend to have more fun when winning and less fun when losing" is true.
"Therefore, ######### everyone and don't even try to make it fun" is not a good place for this thought process to lead.
You can't make losing fun for everyone, but you at least need to make it as fair and interactive when you can, because "I lost due to being bad" and "I lost due to total bullshit I had no control over" hit at completely different severities.
Tombstone piece falls squarely into the latter. It breaks the conventions of the game over its knee, skips the fun, makes the enjoyable part of the game an 'avoid at all costs' and generally feels like a total robbery.
I'd rather it got evaporated from existence and Michael got some well-needed buffs to rocket him up the tier lists, but I get the feeling you want an outlet than you want something reasonable, so you've still got it.
Go nuts, bud.
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@OpenX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2756261#Comment_2756261
I don't think fun is a measure for DBD balancing. You can flip everything you just said around because running ultra-safe god pallets as an M1 killer isn't exactly fun or interactive either. But guess what? That happens alot more than tombstone myers killing people.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2756260#Comment_2756260
Having more than double the stalk time is not "no slowdown or anything to speak of". It's the survivors fault for feeding myers. Tombstone myers has NO PRESSURE at all until he reaches tier 3. A good team can easily finish the first 3 gens or more in that timeframe.
But here's the thing...most survivor teams are not good. So like how people think Bubba is OP they think tombstone is OP because bad survivors get dunked by it. I say too bad, git gud. Tombstone is fine.
No one gives a damn how balanced your game is if it isn't fun.
Consequently, I think a gap can be bridged between fun and balance-- it doesn't have to be one or the other. Otherwise, Hag would've been deleted outright.
Don't know why some people scoff at the mere idea of """"""fun""""""" being a factor for changing anything in this video game we play for our entertainment".
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@pseudechis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2756180#Comment_2756180
Sort of in addition to what I responded above. The idea of "don't interact with the killer" once people figure out its tombstone some how being unfun.
Interacting with the killer is the fun part but you see from most people's posts its only fun if its really safe to do.
The moment its actually threatening and horrifying its not "fun" anymore. People don't want killer interaction they want "safe" killer interaction. Predictability with lots of second chances.
Which is a lackluster experience game wise and makes every game the same dull loopy chase experience. Its an exercise in tedium over thematic gameplay.
No, it's only fun when it's interactive.
Blight and Oni are some of the most dangerous killers in the game to be around, far more so than Michael. Yet they're agreed on to be some of the most fun killers to go against. They're not safe, and yet they're fun.
Tombstone Michael is not fun, and not safe either. He's uninteractive. He walks at you, left clicks and instantly removes you from the match. He's not dreaded because he's sCaaAaaRy, he's dreaded because you're now guaranteed to have a gross frankensteined half-match where you skip the fun part to get right to the dead part as soon as you do anything with the killer.
Again-- what's usually the fun part.
He's not scary, or horrifying. That's you trying to flavor away the fact that your favored playstyle plain blows fat pog logs for everyone that isn't you and appropriately hates it.
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@Shaped said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2756180#Comment_2756180
Okay that is a good point but chasing survs as m1 killer is not really a fun experience either. Both sides should have fun during a chase which is often not a thing in dbd depending on a killer.
I would be fine with tp nerf as long as they buff his base kit or something in a meaningful way to push him up.
Otherwise, I say nope.
Myers as a whole is terribly outdated, and I think the Tombstones show that best. I'd gladly trade them for a significant overhaul to his kit that made him much better overall.
And yeah, M1 killers usually don't do great, but you can still make it work.
More to the point, you can choose to just not play an M1 killer. You can't choose who you go against as Survivor.
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@Shaped said:
I am curious about something.
If tp is so broken and op why is Myers not played often, and why is he at the bottom of everyones tier list?
Also if you nerf m1 killers in any way you better give them so buffs since they are underpowered af especially these days.
Because most tier lists don't assume you're running Tombstone Piece literally every single game.
He doesn't suddenly become nurse, he's still an M1 killer and thus beatable, it just kinda sorta incredibly blows to get suddenly booted back to the main menu with little to no warning or input.
Someone gets booted, and the rest of the team gets the message "don't interact with the killer ever".
Which is usually the fun part.
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@pseudechis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2755650#Comment_2755650
That's a shame as every time something is really threatening or unpredictable it tends to get complained about and watered down.
We shouldn't want the exact same survivor playstyle to be effective against every killer because that is really dull. The game becomes loop, pallet, rinse, repeat or sit on a gen. Every game the same regardless of killer.
Tombstone Myers is fun because he's threatening. A chase against him is high stakes and may result in insta death. You have to break line of sight to deny stalk, you have to be aware of your surroundings while working on a gen. You can't just circle the same pallet then run to your boon spot and reset the wound pressure with a quick heal.
The great thing about powerful killer addons and powers is that they make the killer threatening and as a result the game scarier. That's the whole point of survival horror.
Gameplay over flavor.
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I don't think BHVR ever plans to change it, unfortunately.
Let's just be thankful the BP Grade Rewards can go over the BP cap.
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Not a fan.
Not seeing the killer the entire game, only for Myers to catch you out with his baby terror radius and instantly delete you from the match could be a whole lot better.
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@meomaycacbu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2754680#Comment_2754680
That is why I want to flame the "motivation" to be higher, not keeping this mechanical to myself. I spread the word to everyone so they can make a big wave. Also, lots of survivors is not innocent when it's come to defending their "right" so they get what they deserved anyway. Some don't... BUT HEY! I'm using the logic 4v1 of BHVR. The amount of survivor is around 4 times larger than killer at least so the chance people deserved this kind of treatment is very high.
"Get what they deserved"
Case and point.
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@meomaycacbu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2754529#Comment_2754529
It's never the way to fix it. But when the people who can fix it doesn't fix it, then they need some motivation.
The "motivation" would have to be on such a macro level higher than this it would literally have to be every other game for a company as sedentary as BHVR to do anything.
This won't do anything other than make the game suck for random people for no reason other than spite. And I don't imagine you're dumb enough to trick yourself into thinking otherwise.
So I guess we only have one side of Occam's favorite shaving tool left.
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Do you not consider getting bad teammates, something that is completely outside your personal control and has a massive effect on whether or not you survive, bad RNG that could lose you the game as survivor?
Because I and a l o t of people have stories to tell you.
And yes, i've played a match of Killer on a suffocation pit that had like, 7 pallets across the whole map. Guess how it turned out.
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@meomaycacbu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2754323#Comment_2754323
More like the water in this pool hasn't been cleaned since last year. All they do is install a new water slide for kids to play with. So I will crap in this pool to force them to clean it.
Or, like everyone who says being part of the problem is actually the way to fix it, getting the pool cleaned is just the excuse.
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@Warfaredragon7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2754293#Comment_2754293
When was the last time you saw someone in this game reported for saying such horrible things. I advice is just make your profile private and skip end chat
Never.
I don't keep tabs on every person i've reported to see if they've been banned or not. I report, move on and forget about them in 5 minutes.
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They are.
Report them.
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Astounding.
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@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2753913#Comment_2753913
I hate validation more...
This way DH wouldn't save you if you get mind gamed etc.
It would be better if the perk was reworked entirely, I think.
On that subject, I think all exhaustion perks (aside from Head-on and Smash Hit) need a lookover.
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So the part of DH that everyone hates most is the main effect?
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Open the chest.
Then, I find the basement, and open that chest too.
I have a chest challenge.
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Yes.
They are.
No one said they weren't.
Dramatizing bog-standard BM is tiring.
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Some people load into the game looking for any reason to be an ass, no matter how nice others are.
Don't worry too much about it.
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I don't understand people who yell "DH brainless perk, only bad survivors use it!"
DH is most often run by good survivors who know exactly how much extra value they can get out of it, and could run you like champions without it.
That's not to say that DH is a healthy or balanced perk, but equipping it isn't announcing to the world that you have no skill and suck at the game, it's literally just additive.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2752978#Comment_2752978
I feel like people have forgotten how incredibly unfun old Freddy was and that people would DC en masse to get out of games with him.
Don't get me wrong, his design was much more inspired, but his actual implementation was horrid.
Nostalgia goggles grow strong after 2 and a half years.
People always take a wistful tone when they talk about Old Freddy, as if we just didn't have the time to fully appreciate him.
Except no, it didn't really take a long time to figure out that the "I take forever to hit you and then you're asleep and you take forever to do things and the game is long and sucks for everyone" playstyle really was incredibly boring and terrible.
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Put him out of his misery.
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Pretty much what @jesterkind said.
They toned down the annoying part, except he can still kinda zone you for free, and they gave him absolutely nothing to compensate.
And he wasn't exactly a top tier killer to begin with, so..
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@Nos37 said:
I really hope they add my HUD idea so that the other survivors can see that I've been doing things the entire match before it get's to the point in the match where being near a gen or going for an unhook just means the killer 4ks. Hopefully then, they won't try this crap.
Using that quote is probably the worst way you can justify not doing suicidal altruism.
For your future posts.
You don't need to thump your chest and say "IT'S ALL ABOUT NUMBER 1 BRO, JUST CHECK THE STORE PAGE" to not do something like charge into a facecamping bubba when it's just you and the hooked survivor left.
It just makes it sound like you make your games 3v1s on purpose.
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@TotemSeeker91 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2752404#Comment_2752404
Otz is one professional, how about the entire community who isn't?
Did you see the rest of my post where I said Pinhead needs a well-deserved buff?
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If I get hitched on the basement stairs one more time
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That quote on the store page is the stupidest justification for the stupidest things in this game.
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Pallets?
Funny joke.
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Do you think BHVR scours Twitch every day for all those 3 view hackers?
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As Otz has shown, a Pinhead who can successfully keep his Chain Hunt up is terrifying. It doesn't matter if you can dodge his chains, you have to dodge them constantly and progress gets ground to a complete halt.
But unfortunately, that's the only real case where Pinhead has some serious strength. Either he's incredibly oppressive there, or he's basically nonexistent everywhere else.
His Possessed Chain and other facets of his chain hunt need a well-deserved buff.
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@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2752380#Comment_2752380
They want us to play more? Which makes sense from their POV.
Earning and spending 6 million BP or hoarding up to 6 million BP have the same amount of playtime.
If you're that dedicated to maxing out characters, you're already in and probably don't need subtle manipulations to make you play more.
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@Dino7281 said:
Not really removed, there is a reason for it.
If there would not be any cap, you would have players with maxed killers / survivors same day it was released. This way you are kinda forced to play DBD to unlock it, which is what they want.
But I agree it should be higher, maybe like 2M would be nice and it would make more sense with new grade rewards.
You would have maxed killers/survivors the day of release.
..and?
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Has Victor ever been doing okay?
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This has probably been my go-to build for at least the past few hundred hours.
WGLF for extra bloodpoints and ground healing speed (comes in clutch more than you think), BT because some unhooks just won't ever happen without it, WMI for an amazing boost to heal speed, and IW because I don't like hearing Bill cough.
I wanted a very team-centric build, because i'm tired of builds that're only to help you survive like most meta builds, and I want to be able to play effectively without finding myself relying on things like Dead Hard, Sprint Burst or Decisive to act as safety nets.
But Iron Will is my guilty pleasure, so shut up.
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If my dumb ass could do it on Fractured Cowshed, anyone can do it.
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It's like the current Bubba, except if you had to consume every single token every time and couldn't end the sweep early if you downed someone quick.
So worse.
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No
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@AngyKiller said:
Honestly, the Survivors should need to hit 2 Good or 1 Great skillcheck to stop regression.
But until it's stopped; it will resume if the Survivor(s) leave the gen before those skillchecks. Which means Killers can chase Survivors off gens.
It also means they can't tap in 1/60th of a second (aka; 1 frame of animation)
That'd be cool if I couldn't go an entire generator without seeing a skillcheck.
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From my experience, they're either sitting behind a tree in a corner of the map in sheer terror of the killer or every single one of them is rushing the hook in front of the killer without BT.
Literally nothing in between.
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2747619#Comment_2747619
If a killers power isn't lethal then it is pointless. Look at plague. If nobody cleanses then she is just a super tall m1 bot that you can loop for ages.
Add lethality to Legion's current power.
Like if they rework Legion to give him some cool secondary skillful way to down people, that'd be awesome.
If adding lethality to legion's power is literally just him going stabby stabby like 3 times and they go down like release Legion, ew.
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Controversial counterpoint: No one should see anyone's name.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2745710#Comment_2745710
Absolutely. I see flashlight saves about every 3 games and god forbid you have 2 people really good at flashlights, they can get instablinds. Not to mention how good flashlights are for chases.
People desperately going for flashlight saves aren't doing gens and can get punished for it, and people blinding in chase aren't making distance while you can just follow their footsteps.
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@Sludge said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2746993#Comment_2746993
They could just do both, even though a response wheel is unnecessary. Hundreds of games have voice comms with no issue.
You want the DbD community to have access to your ears?