GeneralV
GeneralV
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I really don't understand this system. I play Freddy pretty much exclusively, and whatever is going on with my MMR level with him creates some... interesting scenarios.
And that ranges from survivors that are clearly better than I am to a Jill who I grabbed off a dull totem without her being asleep.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3633638#Comment_3633638
In this case. the overhaul would effectively be a removal of her current gameplay.
So, basically exactly what happened with Freddy, Doctor and Legion.
@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3633638#Comment_3633638
I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting or expecting that she be deleted. Like I said earlier, just deleting content is a non-starter, and I think just about everyone realizes that. It's hyperbolic rhetoric to express their displeasure with an irredeemable killer.
If BHVR were willing to take such an extreme measure, odds are Nurse would have been long ago, if nothing else but to save themselves from having to balance around her constantly. Or they would have taken all the Stranger Things content when Netflix pulled their license. But you can't just take content away.
But if it were to be done, you'd need a relatively equivalent exchange that would replace the removed content with something similar but better (like replacing imitation Freddy with actual Freddy, which would be glorious).
For SM, I'd advocate totally gutting her and replacing her power with an entirely new one. Not tweaking, replacing. Like bye bye drones altogether.
But they won't, she'll just fade into obscurity on the island of misfit killers no one uses or cares for with the Twins, only to be a novelty that makes people say "OMG, what is that?" when they see her once every 6-8 months.
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3633200#Comment_3633200
Not sure on that one. Skull Merchant is the first Killer where I actually think that they should have killswitched her, reworked her completely and bring her back with the option to refund if someone does not like her anymore.
IMO she even trumps old Legion when it comes to the worst addition to the game.
@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3633638#Comment_3633638
There is something to be said about an annoying amount of people asking for a feature to be removed.
Sure, it's not exactly constructive criticism, but even shallow, emotionally-charged feedback can be constructive.
It is the responsibility of no one on this forum to find solutions to the game's problems, and while I think we can all agree that problem solvers are more helpful than complainers, the least anyone can do is express their opinion on the state of play.
"Rework X" doesn't convey the same thing as "Remove X." It is important to consider the implications in that distinction.
Ok, I expressed myself very poorly on this one. I'll try to explain better what I meant to say.
It is not that I think Skull Merchant doesn't need changes, because I think she does. I don't like full reworks for obvious reasons, but there are always exceptions and this killer may very well be one of them. Maybe it would make her better, unlike Freddy.
So it isn't a possible "removal of gameplay" that I am worried about. That can happen and it should happen in her case.
However, removing a character the same way that Common and Uncommon map offerings were removed from the Bloodweb is not something that is likely to happen. And I think that saying "delete her" and nothing else ends up hurting the discussion instead of providing a constructive debate.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3633200#Comment_3633200
It's mostly a joke (obviously just deleting content is a non-starter), but because she can't be fixed without fundamentally overhauling her, and that depth of change is not something BHVR has shown a willingness to do in any case. There are a few killers in this category (Nurse, Legion come to mind), but while others are too weak or too strong, SM is just completely insufferable to play as or against. It's DBD at its least fun.
By far the worst designed killer in DBD history, and I'm not sure that there is a useful discussion to have about her that doesn't start and end with "take her back to the drawing board".
But there is a difference between suggesting an overhaul and suggesting a removal. BHVR will never remove a character that people paid for and then refund everyone, that is simply unreasonable.
The most extreme thing that can happen to Skull Merchant is the Freddy treatment. And while his rework was the worst change ever made to this game, at least in my honest opinion, maybe SM would be luckier than the Nightmare was. Or maybe not.
However, asking for a character to be removed from the game won't take us anywhere.
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Every time you decide to go solo in Dead by Daylight, you roll a dice. You can get lucky and your teammates are good players who will do their best, or you can get situations like the one you described.
Yesterday I had a match where 2 people DCed immediately when they saw who the killer was and the third one left soon after, leaving me alone with the bots. Sometimes these kinds of trials happen.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3633431#Comment_3633431
That's not right. If I am held hostage by a group of survivors that only hide for 60 minutes, then I surely didn't "completely determine the gameplay in its entirety".
The same goes for survivors that limit interaction by finishing the gens in under 5 minutes. The killer does not determine that they don't want any interaction in that situation.
Both sides have a big impact on how the match goes. Only, a killer has about 4 times the impact of a single survivor. So for the survivors to match that, they need to work together (can happen in solo queue but mostly only happens in SWF).
The funny thing about gen kicks now is that they aren't "worth it". You will not be able to stall by simply kicking gens anymore. Just like pre 6.1.0. Every good regression perk now only works when a killer does actually progress. That's even more than you could say for Ruin. Ruin worked as soon as you started to chase survivors off gens but it didn't take a down for it to do its magic. The question is: How in the world do you get downs / hooks without chasing?
Yeah, the current slowdown perks do not compare to Ruin, but I honestly think nothing ever will. Especially the first two versions of Ruin (1.3.1 and 2.6.0).
Those two perks grinded the game to a halt because survivors would go hunt for the totem, even if it was possible to power through Ruin's effect. Reworked Ruin used in conjunction with the original Undying also had a similar effect. It is a perk that reached the top of the killer meta with three different versions of itself.
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@KaTo1337 said:
"The recent Onryo changes aimed to restore her old kit while improving it, and I sincerely hope Freddy gets the same treatment."
EXACTLY WHAT WE NEED.
I wonder when we will see the adjustments for Freddy. In a recent AMA some months ago, the devs told us, that Freddy is "on our radar for killers to update".
His last update was in patch 4.7.0. Minor number tweaks like Unicorn-Block from 60 to 90sec or Z-Block from 60 to 90sec mean literally nothing and are not important at all.
Thats literally 3 years ago.
A lot of players say that Freddy is probably the worst killer in the game AGAIN. The "Sadako-Way" with a combination of both Freddies could be the way.
1.) Freddy tags survivors for falling asleep
2.) While in Dream Transition, survivors suffer the Incapacitated-Status-Effect
3.) By pressing CTRL, he can switch the "Pull in dream"-ability into Dream Snares/Dream Pallets.
4.) Dream Projection will stay, but the Channeling-Speed is increased (or you can increase it with addons).
5.) Addon-Pass.
6.) Make the Dream World a place you want to leave.
7.) Alarm Clocks stay in the game (to restore his old aurareading in a weaker version cause you have Dream Projection, you could let Freddy see the Auras of the Clocks turning from white to yellow when used or something like that, but no more Aurareading of survivors outside the TR - just an idea)
8.) Passive falling asleep gets removed.
Just an example how you can get OG Freddy together with the current one.
OR
just go back to OG Freddy with the Incapacitated-Effect in Dream Transition and restore his old self at all.
Precisely, my friend! It is good to see ya here, on this topic that matters so much to us.
I will admit to ya that even if he came back without a single QoL improvement I would still love him as I did back then, but there are many ways to improve his kit while keeping him fun and unique.
Especially the Incapacitated status effect during the Dream Transition. This one would help so much.
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@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632895#Comment_3632895
Its subjective, for example I hate stealth killers as they are easily countered by having eyes and in some cases ears and they are just a lazy addition to the game, I mean the undetectable status effect as a power is incredibly lazy just slap a status effect and boom power.
In my opinion and I will give it to you the only interesting stealth design in this game was old freddy.
And in terms of stealth killers we have rn I think the only one who is not boring to face is chucky (it is boring if they are a scamperbrain chucky), as he is the only stealth killer that makes chase interesting with slice and dice and is not a boting m1 killer.
Yes, everyone has a different idea of what is / isn't fun in this game.
With the exception of Ghostface, I like killers who are more silent on their approach. I think they contribute towards the horror aspect of this game, which is suffering right now, and provide an interesting experience.
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Killers aren't getting a nerf in this next patch. You can play the game exactly the same way you're playing it right now and you should be fine.
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Wanna trade that for my endless wave of Wesker?
I see him far too much. Always with Ultimate Weapon, of course.
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Skull Merchant.
I only played her once because I wanted the adept, but that match was pretty fun.
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@MegMain98 said:
I feel as though people have a lot of anger toward her because of what she used to be. If SM were released at launch as what she is now, she wouldn’t be as hated. Same reason I still hate Legion and always will is because of old 2018 Frank’s Mix Tape Legion. Some people will hold on to what they used to be and still despise them and I can’t blame people for that.
People DC at the sheer sight of her and don’t try even though she is very beatable. I understand she’s “Status Effect: The Killer” and still not fun to face but neither is like 70% of the killer roster. I don’t like playing against her either but she ain’t going nowhere nor is she probably getting another rework anytime soon :/
I honestly have that with Legion.
He is to me and to you what Skull Merchant is for most players. No matter what is done, the killer will always be hated.
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@FFirebrandd said:
I lowkey miss the DS + UB + BT + exhaustion perk meta. Why? Because it left nearly no room for gen rushing perks. Also, if you didn't tunnel, camp, or slug you frequently invalidated 75% of the survivor perks in the lobby. I planned to play that way anyway, so getting an indirect reward for it was nice.
Same.
Essentially most survivors in my trials only had Dead Hard available for them to use, and maybe WGLF if they were in need of points. Everything else had no use at all, and that felt good as killer.
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@Peanits said:
There were a few major gripes people had with the original Freddy. I'll try to name as many as I can remember in no particular order.
- Survivors had to be put to sleep manually before they could be attacked. This took 7 seconds. In practice, this gave Survivors loads of time to get somewhere safe, causing people to lose a lot of easy hits, so it was a major point of frustration for people playing him at the time.
- Adding to the above, Self Care was very popular at the time (still is in some regions, but nowhere near the extent it was then). Failing a Self Care skill check would wake you up, even during the Dream Transition. This gave you a reliable source of skill checks (even in a chase), letting you wake up at will as long as you got lucky with skill checks.
- He was a slugging machine at first. He could see the auras of sleeping Survivors outside his terror radius, making them easy to keep track of. Survivors who helped the person being slugged could not take protection hits if they weren't sleeping, making it almost impossible to rescue the person on the ground. And to add to all of that, sleeping Survivors had a 50% action speed penalty (and had their aura revealed), making it incredibly difficult to pick up a slug before he could return.
- Forever Freddy. Sleeping Survivors suffered from a 50% action speed penalty by default. There were no alarm clocks to wake up either, the only way was to fail a skill check (removing progress from whatever you've been working on and slowing it down even more) or finding an awake survivor to wake you up. This was also at a time where old Hex: Ruin was the meta, and hitting good skill checks would knock 5% off your generator. Cleansing the totem also because difficult because sleeping Survivors had their aura revealed and cleansing speed slowed by 50%. This, combined with the Dream Transition issue, made matches very long and drawn out. More often than not, the Killer would put Survivors to sleep and walk away if they weren't able to secure an easy hit.
The slugging issue was partially addressed shortly after he released, but the other three were the main reasons he needed a change. Stats aren't everything, but it's worth noting that his pick rate was also extraordinarily low at this time - even by today's standards, and there were far fewer Killers to choose from at the time. I know he's often remembered fondly, but the sad reality is that hardly anyone was playing him. (Not to dismiss the OG Freddy lovers out there! He definitely has his own cult following.)
The other thing to keep in mind is that he didn't have a lot of the QOL stuff that he has now, like teleporting to gens, Survivors passively falling asleep, and being able to hit awake Survivors to pull them into the dream world. This isn't necessarily a problem with his old kit, but they certainly make him feel better to play.
In short, the meta at the time may not have played well with him, but there were other problems that would have been an issue even today.
(Not to dismiss the OG Freddy lovers out there! He definitely has his own cult following.)
I take it I'm part of that, am I not? I'm happy to know that the love for that killer many players here expressed has been acknowledged.
I'd like to address the points you made here, as someone will never stop advocating for his return to the game. It is important to look at it from all perspectives.
1- The Dream Transition itself is not something I consider a problem. Not only could you make it shorter with add-ons if you wanted to (although it messes with your 7 seconds muscle memory), but there was also potential for striking a hit, either with the Transition mindgames with glimpses or the on-release version having a shorter movement speed penalty after using his power. What I do believe was an issue was the Transition not blocking certain interactions, like Madeness 3 did.
2- Self-Care meta had a little danger to it that I don't think many players realized: if you get a Skill Check during a chase and you wake up, then he can put you to sleep again and there is a chance you won't win another Dream Transition mindgame, if the Freddy player is going for those (or using Pill Bottle). Of course, that stopped being true after Self-Care fell out of the meta, but it was a reality for some time. Still, I believe the Transition should have blocked all forms of healing.
3- Slugging is a double-edged sword after his first nerf. Originally it was very powerful as you had to manually wake someone up before trying to get them up from the dying state, and that is huge for a player who wants to slug. But being automatically woken up after healing from the dying state I believe was far too damaging for him. Especially because if the survivor was awake and went to pick someone up from the ground, sometimes it was impossible for you to interrupt the action. Slugging with Freddy could be powerful, but it could also fall apart quickly.
4- The action speed penalty was something that contributed heavily towards his strength, as it was one of the Dream World's dangers. The penalty has to exist because it is an incentive for you to wake up, and it contributes to Freddy's map control, which he used to be excellent for. In today's game I often play against survivors who don't bother to wake up the entire game, mostly because there is no real danger in staying asleep. I think the slowdown could be reduced if he is to return to the game, but at least some of it was needed.
The other thing to keep in mind is that he didn't have a lot of the QOL stuff that he has now, like teleporting to gens, Survivors passively falling asleep, and being able to hit awake Survivors to pull them into the dream world. This isn't necessarily a problem with his old kit, but they certainly make him feel better to play.
The closing remarks would probably be to address this sentence. Because I am still playing him, and all of this doesn't make him feel better to play. To me he hasn't felt good to play since July of 2019.
Don't get me wrong, the teleport is good, but everything else just makes him... bland, boring, not special. Freddy is in a state where many players are considering him to be the weakest killer in the game. I know some people said the same about Old Freddy, but this time it isn't a matter of not understanding the potential the killer had, it is a matter of his power not being enough. Not in terms of strength and certainly not in terms of fun for both sides.
It is not a coincidence that he is remember fondly while many ask for his current version to be reworked again.
The recent Onryo changes aimed to restore her old kit while improving it, and I sincerely hope Freddy gets the same treatment.
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As someone who wants him back more than anything else in this game, I'll try to answer that.
Freddy had one bad weakness: the fact that the Dream Transition didn't interrupt any actions. So there was essentially nothing stopping a survivor from finishing a generator or getting an unhook right in your face.
But in terms of design problems, this is as far as it went. Complaints from the killer side mostly came from players who didn't bother to properly learn how his power worked, and tried to play him the way people played Wraith back then (focusing the first person you found).
But if he is to come back, and I sincerely hope he is because I miss my favorite killer, I am sure we won't have those problems anymore.
@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3633237#Comment_3633237
Back then, Ruin was meta and you couldn't stop them from cleansing the totem. Survivors could also heal in your face or simply cancel falling asleep infinitely by missing skill checks. This made Self-Care a hard counter to Freddy because it meant pretty much on demand skill checks when you were injured.
You can argue that it wasn't very effective because you wouldn't finish healing but this still meant that Freddy wouldn't even be able to hit you. So he couldn't down you either.
I think he could also be safely bodyblocked from hooks but I'd need someone else (@GeneralV, I summon thee) to confirm this.
If he was taking someone to a hook and you weren't asleep, it was impossible to bodyblock. Freddy would just phase through you.
@Alice_pbg said:
surprised @GeneralV didn't get here before me honestly.
but what was wrong with him is being made early. so the 7 sec transition was basically free time for the survivors. now you can just give them a status that stops them from doing stuff besides vaulting or using a pallet.
freddy was fun to play. and being in the nightmare MATTERED.
As funny as this is, I was actually asleep. Sometimes I miss these early morning posts.
But I'm here now, my dear friend! There can't be a Freddy thread without me.
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@humanbeing1704 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3633196#Comment_3633196
Sloppy butcher hit and run wraith is the most boring build to play against
A thousand of those Wraiths is better than a single Wesker with Ultimate Weapon, in my honest opinion.
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@HamsterEnjoyer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3633135#Comment_3633135
They would need to refund me every dollar I've spent and the base game as well cause I'd never touch this game again lol
Honestly people need to stop with the whole "delete Skull Merchant and refund everyone". It is annoying and it doesn't contribute to the discussion.
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Isn't it next week? Pretty sure that is when the new update drops.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3633052#Comment_3633052
Some of my first memories with this game were the no mither/unbreakable builds using DS.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3633091#Comment_3633091
Cool. Then why is it every time I run into that exact scenario I don't spam my buttons and still get into those 50/50 scenarios with the pickup techs?
And yeah, good luck going around survivors in indoor maps/doorways with walls. And we're still talking about the high chance of them bringing both DS and Unbreakable.
And no, if they bodyblock correctly you lose ALL pressure, especially if they run DS and OTR.
Cool. Then why is it every time I run into that exact scenario I don't spam my buttons and still get into those 50/50 scenarios with the pickup techs?
What happens in your games happens in your games, not mine. I would need your footage to try and answer that.
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I usually go with Prove Thyself, Adrenaline, We'll Make It and Lithe.
It is a good build.
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@Seraphor said:
Sloppy, Franklins and Plague say hi. All hard counters to medkits.
Tbf though, Lightborn would probably be fine if it did something like "increases time required to blind by 50%". That would throw off survivors timings and would most likely result in 90% of blind attempts failing simply due to not having enough time to finish the blind before the killer moved away, while still scoring the aura reveal.
Old Lightborn, then. With the addition of the aura reveal.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632949#Comment_3632949
I've been on the receiving end of the pickup tech many times, if they vault or exit a locker as soon as you try to open it and the game decides you pick up instead. All it takes is telling your SWF buddies to go down near one and baiting the killer into it.
And really there isn't much choice if you're bodyblocked aside Sadako's demanifest or well timed shots with an M2 killer. Most survivors will block doorways until they get hit and they absolutely will waste every second of their perks to do it. Then killer has to decide if it's faster to try and hook who bodyblocked or go for their teammate, risking the downed survivor having perks to pick themselves up. Meanwhile, their teammates are doing gens and will pop those before grabbing their friend if you keep going with your original chase. A lot of your options are a lose/lose scenario if you choose to not tunnel in these circumstances and buffing DS to have no downsides to using it as a weapon and not as a defensive tool will only amplify that.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632957#Comment_3632957
I've seen a few in this discussion alone ask for that, a few others on other platforms as well.
And I'd be fine with 5 seconds max, personally I'd prefer 4 seconds and no drop delay after getting a hit so you can use the full 4 seconds, as long as the perk can't be weaponized like it used to be. My main point comes from reading a few of the suggestions I've seen floating around that it needs to be EXTREMELY buffed to compensate tunneling because of tunneling itself with no thought towards normal gameplay.
That doesn't work if you don't spam it. If there is a downed survivor standing close to anything you have to take your time, make sure you know which interaction will happen before you do it.
As for bodyblocking, you can go around them. If there is no way to go around you hit, depending on how long it took there is no more basekit BT to help. If they don't have Unbreakable they now need help to get up, the other two survivors can be those SoloQ teammates that will take time to help.
Meanwhile you are putting the pressure on someone else, that can be a Thanatophobia stack taking effect during that time or a Pain Res after a short chase. There are countless scenarios where bodyblocking fails. Sometimes they don't even try to do it.
@Murgleïs said:
It’s funny because nobody talks about counterplay. You all want this perk back in the meta by buffing it to narnia but you don’t think for a second about how the killer could avoid it while getting value.
Because right now, going for 12 hooks doesn’t give you any value. At least back in the day you had BBQ for the extra BP but that’s gone.
I asked several times for BBQ to be reverted, so I'm good.
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632245#Comment_3632245
I completly agree. STBFL is only really a good perk on M1 killers and they could need some extra help in chase compared to M2's.
Exactly.
I hope they cancel the change before the patch hits live, it is not needed.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632952#Comment_3632952
Mostly agree. I dont know some matches it just annoys me. Because it can just completly disable a whole item thats already niche. (Also the perks robbed me of so many blind challenges i swear) like franklins at least has a back and forth. Broken perks don't completly disable healing as a option you will always have a way out. Lightborn its just. "No flashlight/blind gameplay" and its weird. Understand its probably just me and a few others. But it does definitely have a annoyance factor to it imo. I remember seeing a joke post on what perks to nerf "if the killer has Lightborn. The survivor can throw their flashlight at their head. Instantly breaking the flashlight but stunning the killer in the process" i thought was halarious.
But flashlights / getting blinded has an annoyance factor to it. I myself cannot stand it.
An annoying perk to counter an annoying item is balanced in my book.
@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632952#Comment_3632952
In fairness it is one of those weird ones.
From a game design perspective, Lightborn is what is known as a 'hard counter', and it's never good to have a hard counters, because it removes options and dumbs down a game. In a ideal world, what would be better is if Lightborn made flashlights a greater risk to use and offering some skilled counterplay...
However in the same breathe... you are absolutely right, Lightborn specifically on the context of DBD is fine, and not a problem... and this is by virtue of the fact flashlights are not strong. It'd be better to rework Lightborn, but because flashlights aren't good, there isn't really anything you could change it to that would make it worth running....
This means right now, we have a bit of a throw perk. All veterans will tell you you don't need it, you shouldn't rely on it, and it actually hurts you in the long run by forcing survivors with flashlights to not bother, meaning they spend more time on gens... but for the one thing it does, its really good against that one thing.
So yes, the OP is right... it's a poorly designed perk... but its also fine... in a weird way. 😅
what would be better is if Lightborn made flashlights a greater risk to use and offering some skilled counterplay...
Well, the way the perk used to work is that it increased your resistance to flashlights, rather than granting you full immunity. This is what it did when I started playing DBD:
I'm not sure if this would fit your idea of greater risk / skilled counterplay, but that is how it used to be.
If memory serves me right, the perk was effective only because many players didn't know the proper timing to get a blind once Lightborn was being used.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632948#Comment_3632948
I haven't seen too many people asking for the Conspicuous Actions change to be reverted, I'd agree with you that it'd be a bad idea to do that.
Most people just want the five second stun back from what I've seen, and that won't lead to people being able to weaponise it. It's currently not possible to use DS aggressively unless the killer takes the bait, and even in most of the cases where they do make that easily avoidable mistake, you've still thrown the match getting them to do it.
No extra changes would be needed if all they do is raise the stun time again. Anything else, sure, there might be some issues, but the stun being raised to where it was before will just mean the perk is partially back to its healthiest state. Hell, even raising the stun time further wouldn't be an issue in that regard, but I do think it wouldn't be necessary to go further than five seconds.
This.
Well said, my friend.
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Lightborn is fine as it is.
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@ChaosWam said:
I feel like a ton of survivors need to be reminded of why Decisive was nerfed in the first place: Killers who didn't tunnel.
You'd get survivor SWF who would take bodyblocks for their team after an unhook and try to get you to pick them up, or get their team to do a pickup tech when you try to break a pallet/grab another survivor from a locker, get stunned for 5 seconds, rinse and repeat for trying to SPREAD hooks.
Anyone asking for 5 or more seconds, endgame availability, and no downside at all are just asking to abuse it again.
I disagree with that.
Bodyblocking can be annoying, but there are ways around it, there always have been. And that "pickup tech" doesn't even work.
The perk is no longer active at the end game and I don't think this will change. But it needs 5 seconds back because right now there is nothing to stop tunneling. It has to be done.
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@Vanishlord said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632476#Comment_3632476
Judging by the first 6 month plan that they have given us, it seems 2024 may the year of highly requested reworks. Lets hope Freddy has a big enough playerbase to defend him like we Sadoko and Billy mains did for ours. Sadly people are back to slandering her for being a C tier or lower killer again I think. Besides since its coming up to the 5 year mark maybe it will be like Dead hard.
On topic I much prefer this legion to old legion. For me he is fun and good for beginner survivors.
We've all done our best to make our voice be heard, and we have to continue doing so until we get our killer back.
And yes, we are coming up to the 5 year mark. 5 years since that horrible patch 3.1.0 dropped. Heh, it feels longer than that.
But hopefully this year will be better.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632280#Comment_3632280
It’s very unfun to go against. His potential for stealth would be awesome.
It would have been way more fun to go against, especially because we don't get stealth killers that often.
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@Heliosse said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632714#Comment_3632714
I think you are right on this, Alien on ptb was cheered by almost everyone, some even said it was a perfect killer and a perfect chapter. The hype was enormous.
First day of live, Alien everywhere with the queen skin (seriously, i have seen more queens than drones even tho i think this skin is ugly, the mouth, the crest, the little arms and the butt are all very badly done and not like the regular queen from Aliens, the size i understand, she is tiny because of gameplay but the rest, not so much), but in term of sales, it must have been a big hit for Behaviour.
The bug made Xenomorph unberable (even for me, i was really frustrated with it, and i did a lot of ptb so i knew that something was off).
It is a say that the first impression is the most important, well it was a miss for Alien, and after that, it all went down.
Add to this the short range anti loop design that is generally disliked, TCM on fire at that moment, people burnt out of the game, the fact that dbd is still dbd at the end of the day and no Xenomorph will change that, the fact that most of this community is unfamiliar with the horror genre at best and only play dbd for the pvp comp experience and finally, the fact that their is a tendency today of consuming/judging things extremely quickly then going next (Otz video on the xenomorph ptb, someone asking right away "what is the best build", "Is xenomorph strong", "It's like demo and nemesis" and any things like that, there is no hype, discovery or even just enjoying things, this guy, without any offense, is not an anomaly, he is the norm, and that, hurt new content, killers, perks etc.)
I don't think Alien failed as a chapter, or even the Chucky chapter for that matter, but it opened my eyes on a things:
- Trailer hype, ptb hype and people saying things like "ive been waiting so long for this" or "never been so excited" are a non factor, at the end of the day, IPs are irrevelant, only the pure gameplay count (wesker best exemple, you give him a "crap" gameplay, and no one plays him, even the wesker "fans" of today. Most of the dbd knows the character by name, but doscovers the movies/games afterwards (it's not bad, but it diminuqh the power of an IP since it plays around that).
- We reached a point in dbd concept designs were there isn't much to do without new mechanics, killers are going to feel (and only feel) similar and it would help to create new mechanics, objectives or things to play around, screw simplicity, i would love some new things to interact with. Moreover, when i play killer, everything feels the same, killer power, perks, no matter, it's only down hook, rince and repeat, i would like some changes.
What makes horror, well, horror is buildup, in dbd there is no early stage of stalking, lurking ambushing (this hurts Alien too, same for ghostface, pig and myers). Dbd lacks a proper early and late game, i think they should take inspiration from movies with a slow start, an explosive midgame and a chaotic lategame.
On a positive note, Xenomorph not ending like Wesker is great. Wesker is popular only because of his gameplay, having a real loving playerbase around Alien is cool (most IP's have a small dedicated playerbase that is here out of love for the IP itself, Sadako, Pig, Demogorgon, Pyramid head, Pinhead and Freddy come to mind). Freddy mains that plays Freddy because they love Nightmare on helm street, you have my eternal respect, that is so based it's unreal. That is the true power of having an IP in a game.
Freddy mains that plays Freddy because they love Nightmare on helm street, you have my eternal respect, that is so based it's unreal.
Thanks :)
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632197#Comment_3632197
Survivors have FTP, buckle up... I could go on. That’s 2 perks in the meta right there. Let’s be real.
I think, my friend, that @Pulsar is talking about survivor perks being added to the meta,which the most recent example would be Made For This before its nerf.
Overall, the community seems to be very hostile towards survivors getting a new meta perk. That doesn't mean Made For This was fine, to my understanding the perk was poorly designed, but it seems to happen every single time a new survivor perk has the potential to reach meta levels.
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The Old Dead Hard is one of the few things from Old DBD that I do not miss, and I don't say that very often.
The perk is fine now. It can still be decent, of course, but the perk got the change it needed.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632678#Comment_3632678
How could the game possibly be Survivor-sided?
The last official stats we have show that Survivors have a 39% escape rate at "high mmr".
Killers have been massively buffed in the last two years. I would actually go as far to say that the game is Killer-sided at an average level.
Once again, I am asking you, politely, to prove your point. How is the game Survivor-sided?
Oh, also, Adrenaline activates once after every gen is done. It's a fine perk. Shouldn't wake you up against Freddy though.
Shouldn't wake you up against Freddy though.
Yeah, this was overkill. Patch 1.8.1 was already a big nerf to Freddy, there was no need to make Adrenaline another nerf to him.
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I agree with what you said for Billy, but overall I'm really happy with his changes.
Hopefully they will actually nerf Blight's add-ons, as it was supposed to be. Those two Iri add-ons cannot reach live servers.
And please cancel the STBFL change. That perk doesn't need a nerf.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
The only people at fault in this situation are the people who design the game in such a way to allow this type of thing to happen. Allowing this perk with its current design while ignoring glaring issues with maps forever is the real problem here, not the players who abuse it, IMO.
Hopefully Boil Over gets a change at some point and we get rid of the problem.
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@Selfpreservated said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632576#Comment_3632576
Obviusly its not intended a perk that takes away the ability of the killer of hooking but still we shouldnt blame the players especially if this technique its very weak since it focus in stop doing generator
The developers are aware that this exist and they dont want to change this perk wich is why we this is more the devs fault then the players
Yes they can choose not to do it yet they do because its fun why wouldnt they do it?
Yes they can choose not to do it yet they do because its fun why wouldnt they do it?
Because it makes the game miserable.
Not every Legion did the Infinite Mending Legion exploit back when it existed. Sometimes we had bugs where it was impossible to pick up a survivor if they got downed on certain spots and I've seen players crawl out of those spots because they realized what was happening.
Accidents happen, of course, but there is no excuse for willingly abusing an unintended effect. The community can do better.
I think this perk needs a change and hopefully it will get one.
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@Selfpreservated said:
"There was nothing i could do" there was something you could do and that you did, as you said you focused the others survivors wich is what you should do against this since they cant have a repair build if they have a boil-over one.
they wont be doing gens so they cant affect you anywhere that isn't that one spot
still i'll say that it isn't players fault that something like this exist since the developers allow this on their game
But against them there wasn't, and I sincerely doubt this is intended.
And I believe it is their fault, because they can simply choose to not abuse it. It is their choice.
@Nathan13 said:
Boil over needs to just be reworked into something completely different, I can’t maneuver around on my controller.
I agree completely, my friend. This perk really needs a change.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631055#Comment_3631055
Just to be clear, I'm not advocating for them changing the current system to remove inventory. I'm not asking for any changes to the current system.
Yeah, me neither.
Except my little request for the devs to give me my Splinter back:
@GeneralV said:
I was going through some old threads earlier today, and I got reminded of a rather unfortunate situation from before the Prestige change, that I kinda wanted to fix. But since it is impossible to do so, I decided to ask the developers a little favor:
Can you go to my Freddy's Bloodweb and spawn a single Glass Splinter on it?
If you are not familiar with that name, the Glass Splinter was an Ultra-Rare offering:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/G88BYHIIBB5G/image.png
And it was the only Splinter offering I had left. This is mostly because of when I started playing DBD and which DLCs I bought first:
-The non-licensed Splinters for Hag and Doctor had already been retired.
-I bought the ANOES DLC together with the base game, so I've never seen a Smoking Splinter. Same goes for TCM, just a few days later, so even though I had a Bone Splinter on my web there was no reason to get it.
-As for the Black Splinter, I used the one I had and it was what convinced me to buy Myers, so that was it.
All that was left was a single Glass Splinter that I got on Freddy's Bloodweb but never used it, so it was kept as a little souvenir for a while. But then I prestiged Freddy and the offering was gone.
Back then I didn't know they were going to be removed. But they were, and now I no longer have the treasure I had. And I wanted to change that.
So...devs? Can you help a friend? Please?
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Players are responsible for their actions, though. No one is forced to use a playstyle, or in this case exploit, that makes the game miserable for everyone.
1- Because I consider this to be an exploit, as there was literally nothing I can do. I don't think this perk is supposed to create such a situation. This cannot possibly be intended.
2- Because I was curious to see if they were going to be punished for abusing such oversight. Apparently they won't.
3- Because No Mither allows you to get back up from the dying state.
4- I did.
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@WishIcouldmain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632245#Comment_3632245
Yeah, but I’m quite sure that it’s getting nerfed because a full 8 stacks and with right killers it could ignore the endurance quite well and just tunnel. I’ve also noticed it can be quite extra devastating to Solo Q, because there’s no real effective way for the obsession to figure it out and pester the killer. Also it’s very popular, like I see it in basically every game.
It is a very popular perk indeed, but I'm not sure if its use for tunneling was enough to warrant a nerf. But Freddy won't be affected, so at least I can still use it.
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There is an easy solution:
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632415#Comment_3632415
That is a challenge I accept. 😉
We may not agree on Freddy's standing on the tier list but we definitely agree, that he deserves better. The Hillbilly rework gives me hope on what is to come for Freddy. They addressed almost all of his many, many, many issues and it is clear that they took our feedback into account (some of this reminds of what I suggested as a possible rework for him).
One day, my friend, Freddy will rise.
It's on, then :)
And yes, Hillbilly's and Onryo's recent changes gave me a lot of hope for Freddy. The developers deciding to revert her rework while improving her old kit was a massive jump in the right direction, and doing the same thing to Freddy would be absolutely perfect.
He will rise again eventually, and it will be a glorious day. It is something I've been waiting for since July of 2019.
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Whenever this game goes temporarily FTP we have problems. I don't think it is a good idea.
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@Huge_Bush said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632328#Comment_3632328
What can Freddy do that she can’t?
I think it would be a stalemate, to be honest.
It doesn't matter much that Sadako can will people dead when Remake Freddy cannot die.
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@Huge_Bush said:
I wish for the fog to make a comeback and for Claudette power of Blending to be unsealed so she can strike fear into the hearts of killers everywhere.
Same, my friend. It has been a while since I last made my fellow Claudette mains proud with my Blendette skills.
Our ancient tech isn't what it used to be.
@Xyvielia said:
Back in the days of old, Every (and I do mean every) all-Killer or mostly-Killer player was on these forums complaining about not being able to see “Blendette” and other Survivors whose clothes were “too dark” due to them having ‘superior camouflage’ with the map aesthetics; even to the extent that, eventually, not only were Claudette’s as well as other Survivor’s cosmetics adjusted (lightened-up), but the maps were also made more plain as your photos depict, with more plainly open, well landscaped or completely vegetation-less area; and the strategic “trap placing” tiles still with enough cover or deceptive color to conceal the Killer’s devices… also appealing to all the whiners and complainers.
Subtle nerfs along the way that aren’t usually mentioned when comparing and contrasting the various Survivor to Killer DBD nerf ratios since the games inception. Who had more, who had less, etc.
It’s all very plane to see.
Just the facts
And I have no doubt some of those players now want those maps back, because they realized the map reworks did nothing but kill the horror atmosphere.
It is funny how these things turn out, isn't it?
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632389#Comment_3632389
Just out of curiosity, where would you rank Legion?
I think Legion is in a somewhat ok-ish spot but comparing him to other killers he doesn't get very high. Not a candidate for D-tier (that's Myers, Trapper and Freddy in that order). I just don't know if I'd put him above Clown (both have their strengths and weaknesses).
One day, my friend, I'll convince you that this version of Freddy we have now isn't the weakest killer in the game.
But hopefully when that day comes Freddy will already have his old power back with some QoL improvements and his reworked power will be nothing more than a mere bad dream.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632373#Comment_3632373
That is true. I'm just not a fan of :"if you have it, you can enjoy the game more, if you dont have it, you will get targeted and tunneled out."
It is what it is, I suppose. It is how the game operates.
If you want the best perks available, either pay for them or get lucky with the shrine.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632340#Comment_3632340
But we also have to think about new players. Those that are especially endangered to get into the "i tunnel every game because i have to" - mindset. These people dont have the shards or time to go into the shrine, wait until one of the perks show up and grab them. As you correctly pointed out, many players had purchased Bubba and Laurie, back when it was meta. New players see DS and BBQ maybe as subpar perk right now. With how much negativity DS especially gets right now, i cant blame them.
If you ask me, a buff to survivor could be: after getting unhooked, and the survivor gets chased and downed within 40 seconds after being unhooked (tunneled) they can hit a skill check, stunning the killer for 4 seconds (DS could be like borrowed time , adding seconds to the stun). This mechanic is deactivates when the survivor makes a conspicious action AND makes the survivor lose collicion with the killer if the killer is chasing two or more survivors at the same time (similar to Sadako).
This is by far not a perfect solution and would need to be tested, but its better than locking something that effects game health behind a paywall.
Same thing with BBQ. Make a basekit mechanic that rewards the killer in any way for spreading hookstages. Bloodpoints as you said could be a start. Especially for newer players, spreading hooks would be more interesting, because more BP = faster progression.
I think it is okay for the perks to solve this matter. Especially now that shards aren't particularly difficult to get. And getting the character to P1 unlocks the perks for everyone.
Most of the meta already works that way.
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It is supposed to be funny, but in reality it is just an annoying situation for the rescuer.
Back when the DC penalty didn't exist, some players would disconnect if their teammate managed to kobe right when they arrived for the rescue.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632318#Comment_3632318
But what if the killer doesnt own Laurie or Bubba? I dont think important apects of the game that need to be looked at should be fixed with something that is locked behind a paywall.
The shrine can help them.
Though honestly, I don't think I have ever met a player who doesn't have Laurie or Bubba. Many players bought those DLCs to get the perks, back when they were part of the meta.