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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632267#Comment_3632267
In terms of categorizing me and calling me out, I wasn't referring to you friend or @MikaelaWantsYourBoon but to Ayodam. But I hope that this topic is off the table now. It has no place here. I always want to discuss things respectfully and therefore I enjoy interacting with you and @MikaelaWantsYourBoon very much.
I'm fine with ds being 5 seconds. I just don't think that this will solve the problem effectively. Bbq old bloodpoint bonus could be made a basekit mechanic. The more different people the killer hooks before someone is dead, the more BP they shall receive. Sounds like a good incentive to me.
With your last point I absolutely agree!
I understand, my friend. There was just a little confusion in the previous post.
DS being 5 seconds again is a good place to start. Maybe it won't be as effective as it used to be, especially because fighting against tunneling is way harder these days, but it should at the very least put a stop to the current tunneling wave. Many killers don't like to eat the stun.
As for BBQ, I would prefer if it was a perk, to be honest. BBQ being used every game means one less stacked gen slowdown to worry about, and everyone prefers killers who spread their hooks.
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@Marc_go_solo said:
I miss the aesthetics of the older maps and some of the more unpredictable chaos, but not a great deal else. What's made it more problematic isn't the older version of the game, but the attitude of the playerbase in general.
There are many decent people out there pkaying this, but it's become a game whereby being a twat, insulting others and generally streaming like a toxic prick has become increasingly more common, and that's really sad to see. Not to say it hasn't happened in the past, but it's more prominent nowadays.
I feel the gold standard was from around Ghost Face and Stranger Things to Silent Hill. That era was good, but before that it was worse and compared to now the game feels a lot better compared to then. At least for me personally.
I feel the gold standard was from around Ghost Face and Stranger Things to Silent Hill. That era was good, but before that it was worse and compared to now the game feels a lot better compared to then. At least for me personally.
I would agree, if Freddy's rework wasn't in the middle of that. It is no secret how I feel about that patch.
But with exception of Freddy's rework and Léry's visual change, 2019 - early 2020 DBD was fire! I would be 100% willing to go further back, but that was a good time to play this game.
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@Marc_go_solo said:
Atmospherically, the earlier maps were streets ahead. The new maps may look better aesthetically and have dealt with some of the big issues (such as infinite loops), but lost an integral part of their individuality and horror factor.
I'd personally prefer the old graphics and aesthetics, with the improvements modern day versions made towards balancing.
That could actually be done.
Back when modding was a thing, there was a mod that attempted to recreate the original lighting of the maps and it actually got pretty close.
I think we should be able to choose which version of the maps we want to see in our games. I would be happy to never see the reworked graphics again, daytime Coldwind in particular.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631796#Comment_3631796
Wow... Thanks. Thats comment feels good @Ayodam .
If you want to make this a "hey, lets look at this dirty killer main, he thinks SWF is the solution to all survivors problems. He cant be real!" - thing, then im sorry to dissapoint you. I play a good amount of soloq and killer both. Just because i have a certain opinion about the game doesnt degrade me in comparison to other players or people here on the forum and also does not make it ok to gang up on me. If this is the level, we are going to, ill stop arguing with you. I have no intention of taking part in a discussion with someone that supports this kind of behaviour. Even if i respect their opinion. Sorry not sorry. Really hope, i took that statement the wrong way.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631789#Comment_3631789
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631786#Comment_3631786
What i meant is, that SWF communication helps out in thses scenarios. It does not make them more fun. That much is true. I mostly looked at the point of handling the situation with regards of winning the match. Not in regards of the fun for all players in the match. Tunneling is unfun (at least for most people). Camping is unfun. Some killers are unfun. Some maps are unfun. Swf does not make these problems go away, it makes them more tolerable to deal with. A good swf on voice communicaiton WILL have a way better time when dealing with these unfun situations.
Solving these problems involves a more complex solution i feel like.
- Its not done with removing killers from the game or changing them so much that they become unrecognizable for the people that enjoyed them. The best that can be done is reworking them slightly to make them more healthy.
- Its not done with putting a jungle gym in every dead zone. Even a LT will not please a lot of people so where do we start? Almost everyone agrees, that Garden of Joy is not fine in terms of pallet spawns, loop design and especially the main building.
- Its not done with giving DS 5 seconds again. There will always be people that tunnel and the reward ( someone leaving the match and making it a 3v1) is still too big without any alternative. If the killer player wants to win, they WILL play optimally. Currently, and as long as i have been playing, the most optimally playstyle for killer is also unfun for survivor. Same way is the most optimally way to play as survivor very unfun for the killer. Making a liscensed perk that people have to pay for a bit stronger IS NOT THE BEST WE CAN DO. There has to be something that incentivices the killer player to go for other survivors. This does not have to be slowdown or as strong as getting into a 3vs1. Just something to making hook spreading worth it. Currently it punishes the killers time investment rather than making them progress their objective. Otherwise i dont think tunneling will see a decrease in popularity.
There will always be people that complain about things. Thats normal. I complain too! I complain about unfair loop design for m1 killers. I complain about the shack and its design. I complain about coldwind long tiles. I complain about Blights ridiculous state. I complain about Nurse power. I complain about Myers being awfully weak without a certain addon. I complain about Sadakos original rework. I complain about Freddy's awful state.
I complain just as much as the rest. But i try to see the facts and see solutions with logic. A survivor killing themselves on first hook, beccause the killer is a Xenomorph is not logical for me. Its a subjective opinion about a character in a video game that the player doesnt like. Therefore the other players have to dislike the match against the Xenomorph as well because one player was entitles enough to say: "Yeah, im out!". Thats not logical to me.
A SWF winning in 4 minutes because of items, a map offering and callouts just to mock the Ghostface-player in end game on how bad they played. Is also not logical to me. These players clearly wanted to win extremely badly. Thats fine. Whats not fine is the lack of self reflection on the stuff that made this win possible and the lack of a fight, the Ghostface was able to put up.
Same goes for Killer, because for some, im a dirty killer player that only sees the killer as a victim and the survivors as evil incarnate.
Its not ok for a Killer to look up the profile of the survivors pre match and single out who to tunnel based on who has the lowest hour count. That is just despicable behaviour. People want to play the game. Not targeted because of their playtime, culture or name. A killer proceeding to "hump" a survivor because they made a misplay and calling them on how bad they played in end game chat is also not ok. Especially not if the killer player played a strong killer with a map offering and strong addons on top of it.
Rant over.
Why is tunneling such a problem right now?
- Not enough punishment for tunneling
- Not enough information for the killer on the progress of the game
- No worthwhile alterinative
- Hooking individual people before sacreficing a survivor punishes the killer more than it helps them
- Survivors sticking to gens, ignoring side objectives like healing, chests or totems
- Strong maps making chases take too long for the killer to handle (pre dropping on some maps is more than enough)
- Some killers are especially good at it (Wesker, Pyramid head, Nurse, Blight, Spirit)
How do we fix it? Some ideas:
- Making the killer a bot (100% success rate to work while also killing th egame in the process)
- Nerfing killers that are epsecially good at it
- Giving the killer some form of incentive to go for multible people
- Giving the survivors some form of tool to deal with it (should NOT be abusable like how DS was in its prime)
- Giving the killer pre lobby information on whether they face a swf or not
Are these the best solutions? NO! Of course not. Its more complicated than that.
As I said, all the problems that are related to players "fun" are hard to tackle because what is and isnt "fun" is very subjective. This does not mean that any opinion has less worth.
What you originally asked was what makes the game unfun for survivors right now, and this is what we've been trying to address. And as you've said, being on a SWF group doesn't make those problems go away. With the exception of MMR, the list of unfun things @MikaelaWantsYourBoon mentioned affects both solo players and SWF groups.
Its not done with removing killers from the game or changing them so much that they become unrecognizable for the people that enjoyed them.
If there is someone who cannot possibly suggest such a thing, it's me.
Its not done with putting a jungle gym in every dead zone. Even a LT will not please a lot of people so where do we start? Almost everyone agrees, that Garden of Joy is not fine in terms of pallet spawns, loop design and especially the main building.
But it can be done by reverting their layouts back to the original map adjustments, before the big reworks. I'm not sure how many people here were around for that, but it was a great patch that aimed to fix the maps without creating deadzones. That was a good effort that should've been continued.
Its not done with giving DS 5 seconds again. There will always be people that tunnel and the reward ( someone leaving the match and making it a 3v1) is still too big without any alternative. If the killer player wants to win, they WILL play optimally. Currently, and as long as i have been playing, the most optimally playstyle for killer is also unfun for survivor. Same way is the most optimally way to play as survivor very unfun for the killer. Making a liscensed perk that people have to pay for a bit stronger IS NOT THE BEST WE CAN DO. There has to be something that incentivices the killer player to go for other survivors. This does not have to be slowdown or as strong as getting into a 3vs1. Just something to making hook spreading worth it. Currently it punishes the killers time investment rather than making them progress their objective. Otherwise i dont think tunneling will see a decrease in popularity.
Decisive Strike will be buffed again, that much I'd say it is a given. I don't see anything wrong with a perk being used to fight against tunneling because it isn't an exploit nor a flaw in the game's design: it is a strategy, but that strategy is frowned upon. With the perk you have a choice between preparing yourself to fight against that strategy, or bring something else that you think will help you in the trial.
As for incentives, we had one: Barbecue & Chili. It didn't stop tunneling completely, but it was an excellent incentive. I think it has to be brought back.
Your next points I do not know how to address. I did not call you a "dirty killer main" (which would be highly hypocritical of me to do, since I've always played more killer than survivor), I did not call you out for having an opinion or complaining about things. Me and MikaelaWantsYourBoon have tried to, respectfully, answer the question you asked.
Why is tunneling such a problem right now?
The problem with tunneling is the sheer wave of it we're currently seeing, mostly because there is little you can do against it. Maybe DS won't be as effective as it used to be as an anti-tunnel perk, but we have to start somewhere.
Problems related to players "fun" can indeed be tricky, but each scenario has to be looked at individually.
For example, Ghostface is the killer I hate most in this game, I never have fun against him. That doesn't mean Ghostface needs a nerf, it is an opinion that I have. But Rancid Abattoir losing most of its loops and being left with deadzones isn't an opinion. It is something that happened and should be fixed.
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@glitchboi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632050#Comment_3632050
I do hope that they listen to the backlash about the STBFL nerf. I don't mind the nerf to 4%, but being able to avoid losing stacks was a key part of the perk that made it fun. It is a strong and powerful perk, but not game-breaking nor overpowered.
STBFL really didn't need a nerf, it is unfortunate this perk was sent to the chopping block.
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I miss the old atmosphere so much. In my opinion, it was perfect.
I sincerely hope the old maps become available again at some point.
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@burt0r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632040#Comment_3632040
Tbh, in this case I would've thrown the match just to bleed that no mither dude out. Constant slug camping.
If the other two survivor catch on and let the other boil over abuser lie on the floor or not wouldn't have mattered to me. The no mither guy had a plan and now would face the consequences.
Depending on how much the other two progressed the gens and if the picked the other guy up or not, I would've simply opened the gates. Anything to not play into their antics, "you don't want a fair and fun match? Then duck off!"
@Shroompy said:
If they were the only 2 left there is actually a way to do deal with this
Pick up the No Mither, and then drop down at the part of the railing where the 'control room' is. Once theyre on the ground, climb back up and wait at the same spot you dropped. If they pick themselves back up you can drop down and smack them back on the ground, which should then give yourself enough time to reach a hook. The one without No Mither can just be slugged.
Is this a fun way of dealing with it? No. But at least you're not waiting for the server to time out
Yeah, maybe I could have tried to do what you suggested here, friends.
But I admit I got really upset when I realized what they were doing and that they had no intention to stop. I played very poorly after that, made a lot of mistakes.
That is on me, of course. I just don't like when people do this kind of stuff.
@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632040#Comment_3632040
I cannot call it anything else, not when the perk completely prevents me from getting a hook. Like I said, it is a very extreme example but I compare it to Infinite Mending Legion.1) Wasn't infinite legion though a bug?
2) BHVR put out a warning message calling it an exploit and threatening bans. Nothing in the game is an exploit until BHVR says it is. As others have said, players using bad game design is on BHVR.
3) Looking backs, lots of people disagreed with how BHVR handled it via bans instead of just kill switching the perks until they were updated.
4) I imagine BHVR would say its not an exploit because there is an end game scenario. You don't have to ever actually chase a survivor up there. You could focus on the other survivors and/or wait until they moved far enough away from where you know they are trying to run to for the down. I wish BHVR would do more to address stalemate scenarios, but that doesn't seem to be on their roadmap.
There's no rule against forcing a killer to waste time. There can't be as that helps the survivors complete their objective. It's unfun gameplay, but that's different than being bannable.
I don't think BHVR handled that situation poorly. No one was being forced to play Legion and stack their Blade add-ons, players did that of their own volition and the punishment was justified.
Players can choose not to abuse exploits in the game, it is entirely up to them. Accidents happen, but doing it when you know it is an unintended effect that causes extreme frustration or completely denies part of the game's objective (hooks and mending, in the examples we're dealing if) has no excuse.
There is indeed no rule against a forcing a killer to waste time, but this isn't what they were doing. What they did completely prevented me from doing anything, and I don't think this is intended as Boil Over's design.
It is not considered an exploit yet, but I honestly think it should be.
@Katzengott said:
Another reason hook offerings are always the best choice for any killer.
Yeah, after that game I'll keep an eye out for Rotten Oaks or Putrid Oaks in the bloodweb. Haven't used them in a long time, but I don't want to deal with this Boil Over situation ever again.
@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632023#Comment_3632023
That was about the time of Artist's mid chapter iirc. Basically, Boil Over was way stronger than it is now and the RPD library didn't have any fixed hook spawns on the upper floor at the time. So you would see some individuals send themselves there with Boil Over, Unbreakable and No Mither. There was no possible way to hook them and there was no way to keep them on the ground either.
I remember fondly a war of attrition against 4 Steves during that time. They were hell-bent on making the match miserable for me, so I returned the favor and kept one of them slugged and downed him again every time he got up. When it was clear that I wouldn't leave him, the others triedt to save him. Which ended with them going on hooks because they didn't make it to the correct spot. The end game chat was priceless.
That sounds incredibly frustrating. I guess I'll consider myself lucky that I wasn't here for it.
At least you got them at the end, but I can imagine how it must have felt.
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632004#Comment_3632004
The thing is, some Perks are in the game just for griefing/trolling. IMO Boil Over is one of them, because it is too weak on its own, but too annoying when used with a specific Build and possibly a Map Offering. Sure, you see Boil Over used sometimes in regular Builds and then it is not a big problem.
But I would rather prefer they rework it to something useful without the possibility of becoming a trolling Perk.
Same goes for Knockout btw, since you mention an "all blinding build". I very rarely see Knockout just being used, when it is used, I often see it in a Build which focusses on slugging all 4 Survivors to bleedout. This should also not be the case, because, again, the Perk is not strong, but can be used for griefing/trolling.
Hopefully the devs will change it soon, and those situations won't happen again.
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@jayoshi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632011#Comment_3632011
Still not an exploit. It's not a known bug. The perk is doing what it's designed to do and the survivor used another perk to work with it. Call it poor game design or poor map layout but don't call it what it isn't. They won't be banned and they shouldn't be banned. Get upset with BHVR, not the player. If you notice someone doing that, go tunnel the other players out so you can take care of them later. If you play around it then they are wasting two perk slots and not doing gens because they will want you to chase them.
I cannot call it anything else, not when the perk completely prevents me from getting a hook. Like I said, it is a very extreme example but I compare it to Infinite Mending Legion.
Boil Over is designed to make more difficult for you to reach a hook, just like Legion's Filthy Blade and Nasty Blade add-ons were designed to make the mending action take longer. But using Boil Over like those two players in my trial did makes it impossible for me to reach a hook, just like using those two Legion's add-ons together made the mending action take longer than doing a gen by yourself.
And the players can be blamed, because this is not something they were forced to do. No, they chose to do it, knowing full well what it does to the trial and to the killer.
The developers were very clear to say that players who abused the Legion's exploit were going to be rightfully banned. I believe this should extend to Boil Over.
And the perk needs to be changed, just like Legion's add-ons were eventually fixed.
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@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632029#Comment_3632029
I have had friends in the past who enjoy making other people upset to an absurd degree. When boil over was peak and I slugged people to death just like I said when I was a dirty full meta blight player, they would often type in end game why I take the game so seriously.
Like ok, you want me to down you, eat your perks and lose. I'll pass personally. The other survivors endorsing it only made me reluctant to let them go even though I did.
Imagine complaining about someone else taking the game seriously while using a perk that can make it impossible for the killer to get a hook.
This perk desperately needs to be changed.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631978#Comment_3631978
I've always loved this sound effect. Gutted they removed it.
Supposedly they were going to bring it back, but only for the killer to hear. Not sure why this wasn't done.
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@Sava18 said:
I literally don't use alch ring but If I could just spawn it into my inventory to slug these people to death I would immediately. You like 0 game play? I guess I do too now. keep getting up, the other two can run out the gates.
It would be completely justified, of course. I cannot understand why anyone would go out of their way to abuse an exploit / oversight and make the game miserable.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631983#Comment_3631983
Were you not around at the time when the RPD library had that issue?
I remember reading the patch notes for the Boil Over buff back then and immediately thinking: "But what about RPD and Mother's Dwelling?" That was the time when No Mither of all perks almost made me disconnect every time I saw it.
Probably not, to be honest. I stopped playing DBD for a bit shortly after the first Resident Evil chapter released because the game was no longer enjoyable, in my opinion.
But I was around for Infinite Mending Legion, which is a rather extreme example but I honestly consider this Boil Over problem to be just as bad. Boil Over just happens to be more situational.
@Caiman said:
It's taking advantage of BHVR's bad map design, but that's not against the rules. Blame BHVR.
I've had similar matches where survivors with Boil Over and No Mither/Unbeakable would hide upstairs in Ormond. Even if I could reach a hook, they were also a sabo squad. That's why BHVR is putting a hook up there now, as seen in the PTB Ormond rework. It's also happened to me in Badham's basement, a TTV and his squad used offerings to put the killer basement in the shack and they would all hide down there every chase because Boil Over and other perks made it impossible to carry them upstairs and hook them. Ended up slugging them to death. Miserable experience.
I agree that Boil Over needs a rework. It causes problems that shouldn't exist, while solving nothing.
Indeed, but a player can choose not to abuse it. It is also their fault for doing it.
I'm sorry you had to go through that, now I really know just how frustrating this feels. Hopefully this perk will get changed as soon as possible and we can stop those situations from happening.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
Most likely nothing will happen. It's super lame, but technically Boil Over is working as intended.
Boil Over should be reworked though, it has done nothing but cause problems ever since it was buffed. It's either super frustrating if survivors use it the way they did in your game, or it barely does anything. Literally it's not even a good perk if you aren't using it to annoy the killer.
It is extremely frustrating that Boil Over making it impossible to reach a hook is intended.
I definitely agree with ya here, my friend. This perk really needs a change.
@jayoshi said:
Nothing will be done and they shouldn't be "punished". It's part of the game. Just like nothing will be done to a killer who brings an all blinding build to slug everyone out. It's just part of the game, and it doesn't happen very often. Just slug them out and move on to your next game. Luckily it's not every game.
I disagree with the idea that Boil Over making it impossible for you to reach a hook is part of the game. This is an exploit.
The Blindness builds you mentioned can be very annoying yes, but they aren't an exploit. Knock Out eventually reveals the survivor's aura and Third Seal can be cleansed. The situation with Boil Over has no counter.
I couldn't hook them. I couldn't slug because one had No Mither. I couldn't stay there to constantly hit the No Mither Nancy because there were other two survivors to worry about.
There was nothing that could be done. This isn't comparable to a Blindness build, it is comparable to the Infinite Mending Legion exploit.
@KazRen said:
It's not an exploit more so just a massive oversight from the devs so I doubt anything will happen. I rarely get these type of players but man does it suck to get them.
I would honestly compare it to the Infinite Mending Legion situation, which was considered an exploit and players were rightfully banned for abusing it.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I don't think it's considered an exploit, but it's super annoying. I usually just tunnel+camp anyone who isn't using Boil Over or slug everyone in that scenario. Hate playing that way, but it's all you can really do.
They should really rework Boil Over. It's a troll perk.
I'm surprised it isn't considered an exploit, to be honest. On those situations there is nothing you can do.
And yes, they must rework this perk. It cannot be allowed to remain as it is.
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Thank you so much, my friend!
As I've said, this is a matter I feel strongly about. I've wanted to my killer back ever since July of 2019 and I sincerely appreciate everyone who has shown support to this cause <3
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@humanbeing1704 said:
the perk needs to be reworked no one actually uses it for genuine gameplay reasons it’s trolling ######### like this
Exactly!
I'm surprised this perk hasn't been changed yet. It is causing problems for everyone.
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@Astel said:
Unfortunately, I don't think they will punished. Even the ones who abused locker bug exploit didn't get punished as I know, so I don't think that kind of behaviors will be considered punishable.
They really need to do something for hook spawns.
Well, I suppose that settles it.
But still, how frustrating. Over 5 years of playing this game and I never had a trial as infuriating as this one.
And to think they will go unpunished...
At the very least now I am certain Boil Over should have never been buffed, if I wasn't already. It is causing way too much harm.
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The only thing they should do with Tombstone is add an warning the killer has it equipped. And I think I have a good way of doing so.
Myers used to have a sound cue that indicated his Tier 3 was close. Perhaps we could make Tombstone piece play that sound cue when he is about to tier up.
For reference, it is this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9qg0KnE-A4 -
@humanbeing1704 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631757#Comment_3631757
Also object of obession worked through pigs crouch and wraiths cloak before undetectable was added
But not on Freddy if survivors weren't asleep :)
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5 seconds is a must.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631777#Comment_3631777
My point is, that most of the problems, that make the game so unfun for certain people, that they quit, is connected to soloq.
Being on comms doesn't fix the problem. Yes, maybe you can coordinate a better save against that one Wesker that tunnels at 5 gens, but it still won't be enjoyable.
Even if I play with friends, it isn't fun to deal with Coldwind's deadzones, nor MacMillan's new tiles and worse layouts.
A full squad can avoid the problems of MMR, but everything else is there. SoloQ suffers more because it always does, but SWFs aren't immune to it, my friend.
Issues that affect the survivor side affects all survivors.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631761#Comment_3631761
Not to the extend of soloq.
Tunneling is most effective if the map is good for the killer (tunneled survivor is hooked in unfavourable spot on the map), the survivor is not playing at their best, the team does not see the steps necessary to help (bodyblock ONLY WHEN NECESSARY, doing gens asap).
Strong gen regression (pain res and pop) is currently based around killer progression. If the survivors in a swf call out the position of the killer, pre run, pre drop and stick to gens like glue, the moment the killer leaves them, the killer wont progress that fast. Therefore not getting their strong slowdown.
Am i missing something? Both of these problems are a lot less impactful if voice comms are in play.
But that is exactly what I said. SWF still has to deal with those things, but Solo suffers more.
I am afraid I don't get your point here.
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Solo Queue will always suffer more, unfortunately, but SWF still has to deal with the first three items of their list.
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631708#Comment_3631708
As a killer, i actually had a challange.
As a survivor, we actually had fun.
Watching the old videos we recorded (i have hundreds of them flying around on my D: ) makes it even more apparent why old DBD was so much better in almost every regard.
Watching the old videos we recorded (i have hundreds of them flying around on my D: ) makes it even more apparent why old DBD was so much better in almost every regard.
Honestly, same.
Unfortunately I don't have my own footage (and I wish I had because it would help me a lot in discussions about Old Freddy), but I watch a lot of Old DBD content and it only proves the fact that it was a better game.
Was there things that had to be changed? Yes, no one will ever deny it. But it went too far, it was too much. Countless things should have been left alone, but weren't.
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@Venusa said:
The standard for what is considered a strong survivor perk has been lowered so much that people find perks like Deja Vu problematic now. How sad.
And to think it was once considered the worst perk in the entire game.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631722#Comment_3631722
Terrible map reworks which created big dead zones.
Tunnelling is so easy.
Gen regression perks are stacking and so strong on several killers.
Dull Merchant.
Bad matchmaking which makes you match with survivors who is doing nothing.
Thanks for the reminder, my friend.
The existence of MMR is also a problem.
Skull Merchant is the only thing in the list I disagree with, because in my recent games against her no one gave up.
But everything else? Yeah, those are the reasons why the game is unfun for survivors right now.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631703#Comment_3631703
Begs the question though...
What makes the game unfun for survivors right now?
My guess?
Tunneling being easier and stronger than ever and several maps being awful.
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@xEa said:
I never DC or kill myself on the hook. However, i can understand why they do it. Dead by Daylight became often times very frustrating for survivors, especially for solo players.
Instead of using all the available braincells on how to deny survivors the surrender option, why not puting the energy into making the game fun for survivors again? Mass suiciding survivors may be a strong indicator that the game is not fun for them anymore?
Instead of using all the available braincells on how to deny survivors the surrender option, why not puting the energy into making the game fun for survivors again?
This.
Well said, friend.
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@ImWinston said:
I agree, it was much more fun before (even if it had flaws in some mechanics).
For example, the atmosphere of the old maps was 100 times better than the current one (I'm not talking about the infinite ones).
But new players (and content creators) wanted bright maps and now we have "modern" Coldwind Farm. Aside from a couple of dead animals and some dirt in the house... it seems like a nice place to retire🤣
Devs, please do your own thing and don't listen to everything they ask you to do
Fortnite did the "OG season"... why can't DBD do it too?
Fortnite did the "OG season"... why can't DBD do it too?
Depending on how they do it, this would be awesome!
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@Mazoobi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631534#Comment_3631534
og DS was pretty bad 1v4 but was extremely oppressive 1v1 to the point where it sometimes made up for his poor 1v4.
Here are my two cents about DS.
Most players who say "Just dodge the bullet" don't get how FAST of a reaction a survivor must have to dodge a bullet because dodging a bullet means a survivor knew exactly at that very millisecond that the DS was going to pull the trigger which requires so much luck since he's zoning a survivor by simply existing.
Dodge? But he doesn't shoot? Easy M1. Don't Dodge? Easy shot.
Sure he was still vulnerable to being gen-rushed due to a lack of mobility or map control, but his chase potential offered very little counterplay unless you were in an indoor map and could hug the hell out of the corners.
Edit: I'd also like to point out how in some scenarios, the survivor would have to rely on the killer missing which means that some of his counterplay at the time was reliant on the killer's mistakes not necessarily the survivor outplaying the killer.
The way I see it, Deathslinger was an interesting character because loops were still effective against him, you just had to be more careful. He wasn't what I would call overpowered.
What truly impact's Deathslinger's strength are the maps, because when he first released the maps hadn't yet been ruined, so there were tiles and structures you could use against him. If he was to return exactly as he was, and we keep our maps as bad as they currently are, then he might indeed feel oppressive.
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I really miss the DBD I loved. The atmosphere, perks, powers and, more than anything else, my beloved Old Freddy.
That was the DBD I want to play.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631359#Comment_3631359
The plenty of fun playing against bad Nurse is the illusion that you think you're a god
Nurse missed a blink, swing.
Woooo Im so good !!!
Against good Nurse, you get hit if drop a pallet, you get hit if not drop a pallet, you get hit if vault a window, you get get if not vault a window, you get hit if W, you get hit if double back.
I don't think so, my friend.
The plenty of fun playing against Nurse is that sweet spot where the Nurse isn't an invincible god-tier player, but she is still good enough to provide a challenge.
Those are the best.
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I once had a trial with 5 survivors, 6 gens to fix and no killer, during the Withering Blight event.
It lasted for exactly 10 seconds before the game just yeeted everyone from the match, but it was pretty funny. Especially the end:
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Never truly understood why they changed that.
I don't think Deathslinger really needed a nerf.
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@Vorahk08 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631464#Comment_3631464
I agree. I didn't necessarily mean relic as an insult to her. Honestly, it sometimes feels like the "relics" like Tinkerer, Devour Hope, and Discordance work better than some of the new stuff! Same goes for characters like Huntress and Spirit.
On the rework front, it seems like, no matter what they do, Nurse as she is will always be Queen Killer because she's the only one that gets to completely ignore basic game mechanics. But then again, a rework would probably leave her with some kind of overheat mechanic. If nothing else, I'm interested to see what happens with the Twins rework. The Billy rework gives be some hope for the future.
Hillbilly being fixed was a step in the right direction, that is for sure. Hopefully they will keep it up.
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@Haddix said:
10
I want his power to be just like the movies again, and I want him to actually pull people into nightmares beyond just dream world. Bring back dream pull, trash the TP and the pools/pallets, put them in an addon and actually design him faithfully like Pinhead.
Old Freddy had a really unique foundation for a killer and with modernization and visual flair, he could be sweet.
Old Freddy had a really unique foundation for a killer and with modernization and visual flair, he could be sweet.
:)
It is good to see you here, my friend. I remember your comments on older threads about Freddy, you've been watching this struggle happening for quite some time.
I will tell ya, this time I am feeling hopeful. Billy's and Onryo's recent changes were massive jumps in the right direction and if they extend that treatment to Freddy... the mere thought already makes me happy.
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@Vorahk08 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631459#Comment_3631459
Thanks for the clarification. It seems like Nurse ultimately is a relic of a bygone era of DBD that hasn't been updated to fit with the times, and this makes her overpowered, as opposed to underpowered relics of the past like Myers.
No problem.
Though I'd say the issue with Nurse isn't just because she is a "relic". Many good things in the game are. Even some players are.
I think the one issue everyone has with Nurse is the fact that, once a certain level has been reached, there isn't anything you can do against her. That was already true all the way back then, and it still is true.
And I don't think anyone truly knows how to fix it. Give her a rework and soon enough you'll see her placing puddles of blood on the ground or overheating. Leave her alone and some complaints will never cease.
It is a complicated matter.
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@Vorahk08 said:
Nurse is weird because, and someone please correct me if I'm wrong, she was added to specifically counter infinites, back when infinites were a thing. She's basically a killer who's built around the foundation of "you're not supposed to be able to loop her." Now, though, infinites aren't a thing anymore, except by accident, but Nurse is still the same. I feel like the only real solution is that she just gets a rework someday.
It is not that Nurse was created for the sole purpose of countering infinites, she is a killer that was never meant to adhere to the regular looping gameplay. As you've said, she is a killer that you cannot loop.
But Nurse happened to be released during the very early days, and survivors were far stronger back then. Now they aren't that strong anymore (some of their advantages had to be removed, others didn't but got removed anyway), and some players believe that Nurse should have been changed, just like those aspects from the survivor side.
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And before that, no matter on what side of the generator you were, the animation was the same.
Ah, it is amazing how a simple question awakens so many memories. I miss the DBD that I loved.
EDIT: This is a good thread, I'll keep it going with my own question for older players.
Do you remember Petrified?
It used to play if you spent too much time on the lobby without finding a match:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEEgy-ZTbCE -
@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631343#Comment_3631343
How do you suggest we adjust? Half the time, it's people who get hooked just give up immediately. They refuse to play games where they ever get hooked. The problem isn't the gameplay, the problem is the player. They want risk free easy mode games and will stomp their feet when they have any semblance of having to make any effort.
I don't know, I do not have all the answers.
First we need to know the reasons as to why someone would give up on a trial. I am sure there is more to it than simply wanting easy games.
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@BlightedTrapper said:
Problem is even if his power is improved, he's still the lame version of Freddy. I don't think there's any way to get the Freddy people would actually care about.
Unless you prefer the remake, like I do. It is an unpopular opinion, of course, but I know some Freddy players agree.
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I have plenty of fun against Nurse, as long as it isn't an invincible god-tier Nurse.
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I almost forgot this killer exists.
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4% isn't a problem, it is an important aspect of the game that should remain untouched. What we need to understand is why people are giving up and adjust things accordingly.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631217#Comment_3631217
If hes in the dream world yes, how ever anything "super natural" isnt included, implying Freddy isnt in his world.
Yeah, I don't get why OP added this rule. Without super natural elements, PH doesn't even exist. Nor Spirit, for that matter.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3630925#Comment_3630925
In general, Boil Over needs to be reworked. The Perk is rarely used in a healthy way (aka just someone bringing it to get value from it and not run a Build around it) and it results in things like upstairs Hooks being added, which are basically a second Basement. It deserves a full rework.
(Same goes for Knockout in my opinion. I almost never see this Perk just used in a normal Build with normal playstyle, almost all the time I see Knockout in a Killers loadout they use it to slug the Survivors to death... Deserves a full rework as well)
In general, both Perks are too weak to be used on their own and can be too annoying when used in a specific Build/playstyle.
Also, Boil Over is way worse if you're a console player or with you play on PC but with a controller. It really messes up your movement.
Yeah, it needs a change.
As for Knock Out, I've actually seen it being used on its own, without heavy slugging. But it was a long time ago, before the perk got buffed.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631194#Comment_3631194
Well yes.. but actually no.
The Freddy we have is not Roberts, its Jackies.
Who cut Dean's throat, his very first kill in the movie.
Yeah, if David is in the Dream World, Freddy easily wins this fight.
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@Marc_go_solo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3630865#Comment_3630865
"When a Survivor is hooked, Scourge: Recover is activated. Upon rescue, the Survivor GAINS a hook state. This hook breaks permanently upon rescue."
I can't see how anyone would object to something so wonderfully balanced! :D
Haha, incredibly balanced indeed! Can't wait for it to be released.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3630959#Comment_3630959
Then we are already talking about specific perks though.
It is just a tip, from someone who plays Freddy a lot.