Gandor
Gandor
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@LapisInfernalis said:
A ping system, some action indicators next to your icon or even something like basekit Kindred or Bond (only soloq players!) would help a lot.
Do not do special things for solo vs swf. Just give solo survivors things, that swf already has (that way SWF can't utilize advantage based on comms). Swf does not automatically mean comms or extra knowledge of player or anything more.
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3236510#Comment_3236510
Bubba has nothing to do with hook grabbing. He's using an M2 power.
Your math is bad, too.
If I camp someone to NEAR DEATH, and then you trade hooks... my kill count is currently.... 0.
If they then escape and leave you my kill count is.... 1
Not sure how you got 3 from that.
If you camp stage because you grabbed. You will camp more. That's 3 stages, 2 survivors at 1 spot and the other 2 needing to both go save. If you get another grab, that's 1 alive survivor (probably out of 3, because time ran out on 1st hooked at this point). So even if survivors recover somehow (and they won't if it's bubba - that's why I mentioned him), they will just not be able to do gens. 2 hook grabs is almost guaranteed killer win when you play out the game and killer is dedicated camper with 2 working brain cells
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@Lastchild said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3236463#Comment_3236463
For adding levels and effects in order of power ok.
But for television I would put the time at 80 seconds maximum, because 120 seconds is too slow for nothing. In addition, survivors will want to interact with television at all costs to save time on their conviction.
That might be OK. I am also guessing how much power she would have in the end. Also it is quite easy to change the numbers in the future. So maybe start with 80s for both onryo TP and survivor taking the tape?
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3235352#Comment_3235352
You don't "win the game" because you camped ONE person to death.
Oh but it is. Because you camped one full stage (possibly more) and got another via grab. If you get 2 grabs like this, the game is almost guaranteed to be killer's win (3k at minimum). Especially if it's bubba - so recovery from this is even harder
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@RaSavage42 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3235894#Comment_3235894
Information is not communication...
Right now there are 3 Killers that match power levels with SWF... Nurse, Blight, Wesker
So if Nurse does get changed... then only 2 Killers may be worth running
I think we agree on these things but find ourselves coming up with different solutions... Do you agree???
If all of these things would be done at the same patch, I would be ok with it. So I kind of agree (it's not worth talking about semantics so take it as full agreement).
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@oxygen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3236452#Comment_3236452
If I'll already be kept in the game for a full slug duration and potentially extra, I don't really care if it takes a bit longer. And a lot of the time the killers that do this just walk around in a 10-15 meter radius of me for 3 minutes and 50 seconds while I'm on the ground anyway (in other words, the other survivor is honestly making the right choice just hiding and playing for hatch/gate).
But it's not 4 minutes slug time. It's potentially ~30 minutes slug time if the killer picks you up immediatelly and you minimize this time by immediate wiggle and then getting hit immediatelly (which realistically won't happen). Sorry but 30 mins slug in 10-15 mins "normal" game is waaaay too much.
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I think you have wrong effects for different levels. The effects should go from most benign to most punishing (because strong effect at lvl1 means you can't "dodge" it - you will get it by single TP next to you).
lvl1 - hemmorage
lvl2 - mangled
lvl3 - blindness
lvl4 - exhausted
lvl5 - hindered (say 5% should do it)
lvl6 - exposed
lvl7 - mori-able
(maybe swap levels 4 and 5. I am not sure which effect is stronger)
Note that sadako is all about number 7 (lore-wise). So you need 7 levels. Also these levels would be a huge buff so maybe change the TV cooldowns to 80s after sadako teleports and 120s if survivor disables it by taking the tape (this encourages survs to actually use the tapes).
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I didn't like this suggestion at the beginning. But as you added the condition that she can no longer blink thru walls, this would be pretty balanced change. I like it.
The only bad thing is, that this would make her too similar to demogorgon.
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@oxygen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3235297#Comment_3235297
While I always laugh when a killer tries doing this with me, that's because I always and with absolutely no exception immediately get on a generator. Preferably right in the killer's face, to make it clear that while they're free to look for the other survivor, I will be doing gens and I absolutely won't help them find the other survivor. So that's one thing you can do.
But be warned, I've seen a bizarre amount of killers get very very upset about this. And I'm talking full on mask off moment, straight up bannable garbage in end game chat.
How does that help? You will still get stuck in a game. Even more so that the killer will grab you (so 0 bleed out time). If you stay on a single spot you at least have to go down so that's 2.7s of bleedout for ~15s of wiggle free time
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@Gwinty said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3236390#Comment_3236390
I do not get why people want to nerf her into the ground. Nurse overall is a concept I like to face, I only think her attack should be a special attack. Everything else is fine for me.
Personally I think that Nurse synergy with perks like No one escapes Death and especially Starstruck is too good and makes her too easy. This is because normally you need two hits to down a survivor, have to land two blinks. Reducing this to 1 means that even I can get downs and kills as a Nurse (and I am pretty bad).
However the suggestion to make her second Blink a special attack is better than mine. This still allows good Nurses (not me) to use Starstruck and other perks while gatekeeping "bad Nurses" out.
Nurse is supposed to be the best Killer for those who invest time and skill to master her. I do not want to change that and nerf her into the ground. However right now Nurse hinders certain perks to be implemented (Awakened Awareness was the most recent perk to hit the wall...) and that should be addressed.
Personally I think that making her blink attacks special is not enough. At minimum I would add on top of this making stuns really punishing (full stun duration, then 1s free to "move"/look around (no blinking) and then fatigue. Possibly remove all her remaining ability charges on top of that. This would make pallets at least mildly useful against nurses.
And I am pretty sure that even if these 2 things were implemented, nurse would still be #1 killer in game (still much better then blight or spirit). That's why I say it is bare minimum that needs to be implemented. But still I would rather have her recharge time go to 6s per charge instead of 3s
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@RaSavage42 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3235878#Comment_3235878
Why... she can't Blink through walls -something complained about-... Her Range does stay the same but if you use the Range Addons they will add more onto her Fatigue and Recharge -something else complained about-... she still is the same at base but with a difference coming from which Addons you use
So I don't think I ruined her... I'll be honest that's about all I can think of when it comes to the Nurse
She would then have an Addon that allows her to Blink through walls
Her being able to go thru walls is her main chasing power and basic identity. If you remove it, you get wesker without slowdown from infection, with fatigue mechanics and much lower mobility. And on top of it you want to also nerf range+recharge...
From my perspective all that is required for nurse to be ok again is increase recharge time for her blinks. The idea is, that missing both of her blinks (so missing twice) should be more punishing then just 6s time waste. Also this would allow for survivors to gain some more distance - so nurse does not have to hit survivors from like ~6m for next try. Also stun timer should not go in paralel with fatigue time. Right now missing m1 is more punishing then getting stunned which is quite stupid.
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@RaSavage42 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3235511#Comment_3235511
SO do you want them to "fix" Nurse or "solve" SWF's
All I'm saying is to do both at the same time if they can't then Buff some of the weaker Killer to have a shot at "sweaty" SWF's
Since SWF's are always going to be a thing... But Killer tier's will always change
It was stated many times here, but I agree with it so I will repeat it. Give to soloQ same amount (not more) of information that SWF has. Together with it balance killers around swf (because everyone is swf now).
Nerfing nurse specifically has nothing to do with it. She is outlier from all the other killers (blight included). There should not be any outliers. If one killer didn't have any power and he would be just basic say 4.8 killer, I would also say there should be no outlier and make him do something more (or delete him). I mean - I already stated that there are several killers that should get buff. But none of them are as urgent as nurse - because only nurse is so far detached from everything else in the game.
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@RaSavage42 said:
@Gandor (seems that I can't use the quote button)
Did I make her weak and unfun??? cause it seems that's what people wanted to happen
Yea I haven't seen a Key in a while... But that has to do with people thinking that the only use for them is to open the Hatch... So I changed how the Hatch works (not really but put penalties on Survivors whom want to use the Hatch for a "free escape")
I really wish nurse got nerfed. But not nerfed into oblivion. I mean I am survivor main. But when I played killer, it used to be almost always nurse. But I don't enjoy her after patch 5.5. And I sure would not enjoy her after your nerfs.
Like if you only made her not being able to blink over obstacles. That would be such a nerf, that her chasing power will immediatelly drop her to D tier. This alone would mean she would require compensation buff (and giving her 3rd blink would absolutely not be crazy idea)
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@Xernoton said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3235336#Comment_3235336
We do not know the exact player numbers this game has right now. What we do know is the numbers on Steam. There is nothing that tells me "OMG the game is in a bad spot. The devs better do something quick." there. Yes, they have been decreasing but this is normal for DBD. You have huge spike in player number and then it decreases again.The reason you see the matchmaking incentives on survivor most of the time is because this game has a ratio of 1:4 when it comes to matchmaking. That means even if there are 20.000 survivors and 7.500 killers the matchmaking incentive would still be on the survivor side. I don't know which region you play on but I can tell you in the evenings killers get the incentive pretty consistently in western Europe.
With that out of the way let's get into your suggested solution. You want something that makes it harder for killers to camp. That is already a thing. You have for example the option to either run Kinship or Reassurence. Reassurence is locked behind a pay wall, which sucks, but so are most good killer perks. These work perfectly fine against anything that is not a Basement Bubba. You can't brainlessly punish the killer for tunneling and camping. How would the game even know if the killer is camping or they just don't have any reason to leave the hook. In many situations survivors get unhooked instantly by their team mates swarming the hook. Why would the killer leave in that situation? What happens when the survivors find themselves in a 3 gen scenario and the killer hooks 1 person in the middle of it? Do we punish this killer for playing smart? The game cannot distinguish tunneling from the killer being unable to find anyone else, the survivor literally running in the killer's face or just having bad luck either. Even most players can't do that.
Now, on to the other points:
Tunneling gens does exist. Wether you like it or not. It's the same reasoning behind a killer tunneling a survivor. Why would you complete 1/3 of your objective and then just leave and do whatever? That is not something anyone would do, survivor or killer, if they are not trying to be especially nice. Survivors are allowed to commit to gens yet the killer somehow is not allowed to commit to a single survivor. Such an analogy exists for camping as well. It is exactly the same reasoning. You know it, I know, everyone else knows it.
Most gen regression perks heavily depend on the survivors in their effectiveness. SoloQ suffers from Eruption while a SWF can deal with it pretty well. Overcharge is easy to counter. Hitting that skill check is not increadibly hard. Ruin is pretty much worthless now. Pain Res only when the killer hooks a survivor on a scourge hook. Prolonging the chase, going down in area you know has no scourge hook or sabotating a scourge hook are effective counters. Also keep in mind even 1000+ gen regression perks will not help once that gen is finished. That is something you see quite a lot recently. Survivors do gens increadibly fast. Prove Thyself is the main culprit and it doesn't have any special conditions other than doing a gen with multiple people. The killer has to do more than that to actually get value out of their perks (except Ruin).
Since you bring up 6.1.0 quite a lot let me explain the issue to you. 6.1.0 was a massive improvement for killers. No argument there. But it did not fix the core issues killers had to deal with. Gens now take 10s longer each, right? So that equals 50 seconds in total. For a single survivor. Fortunately it is not a 1v1 but a 1v4. Meaning effectively gens take 12.5 seconds longer at best. With the meta shake up however Prove Thyself becamore more popular. This easily saves the team 30-60s without any special requirements. There is also Hyperfocus + Stakeout which can speed up matches to ridiculous paces.
If the killer "camps" from far away, get this, they are not camping. No killer (other than Twins) has the ability to be far away and still right near the hook. That is not how it works. Ranged killers do have counterplay if you didn't know. Huntress hatchets sadly do not have an auto aim feature yet. Meaning you can dodge. Same for Trickster. There is also a thing with maps that might help. It's called "cover". They can't hit you through objects. Use that.
I would be fine with some form of punishment for camping and tunneling, personally, as long as the game also rewards killers for playing nice. Right now though that is not the case. You literally throw matches by playing nice. Medkits have lead to killers committing to pretty much every chase and of course when you find an injured survivor you will go after them. Otherwise they will greet you later with a big smile on their face, medkit in hand, fully healed and ready to waste your time with each hit. Camping is (mostly) a reaction to survivors finishing gens so fast the killer can't afford to waste their time running over the map trying to find someone or a strategy the killer might use when they find themselves in favorable position the 3 gen scenario I mentioned earlier.
Absolute numbers don't tell full story. I agree there. But having incentives on one side most of the time and yet having instant Q time is problem. So is 39% escape rate. It strongly signals overall balance of the game is wrong. Sure we can talk about different skill levels and say it's ok in some specific group, but a, we don't really know because we don't have numbers b, it would also mean that other skill groups are that much more broken - and if people loose too much in some skill bracket, they will probably leave the game and never get over that skill bracket = slow player bleed out.
As for reassurence. Sure. I use it every single game. And it's still a bandaid that does not even work all the time. Huntress in the open or basement bubba are the most prominent (but not the only offenders) examples of situations where reassurence does nothing against camper. I mean the perk really helps, but it's like current DS. It just is not good enough. And sure. For killer that defends instant unhook (can force trade) or is able to hook into 3gen. All of this is fine. But the game should allow semi-reliable hook trade. Standing on a single spot being AFK should not be best winning strategy. It makes no sense.
And for your tunneling gens. No. Again. That's bullshit. It's same as me calling killer tunneler for finishing a chase and not leaving survivor to heal himself after a chase. Makes 0 sense right? So why do you mention finishing stuff directly in front of you tunneling? Because real tunneling is ignoring EVERYTHING in game just to get LAST HOOKED survivor again on the hook. Tunneler will ignore other downed survivor that bodyblocked him. THAT is tunneling and nothing else. Does survivors ignore all the other gens just to complete a completed gen? I mean... Last I played I wasn't allowed to interact with completed gen. But maybe you had - if that is the case you could have tunneled it. But please provide me with clip of it.
Pop (yes it's still good for defending 3-gen. You just have to be in position where defending it makes sense), pain res, eruption, CoB, OC (with some other stuff to make it hard - like taking doctor) take 3 of these and you will have easy games in low and maybe even mid elo. Sure in high skill bracket you might struggle. And yet really good killer mains do looong winstreaks anyway (which is still possible with at least half of all the killers).
Also proof saves you at most like 7 seconds with a huge downside - you need multiple people on a same spot. Most of the times this will produce injury/death if killer finds you, because there's just 1 window or 1 pallet in that side of the loop (you don't run into killer). Also those 7s are much less then a good toolbox. I have no idea why people obsess so much about this perk. I mean I understand hyperfocus. But then again - how many people can really use it well enough? You usually take whole build around it which is making it harder to chase/heal/not be tunneled/camped/etc. I mean it's still unfair against killers. But at least it's so hard that only very few people really benefit from the perk.
There are more killers that can be far and still camp. Huntress in the open (say on headonfield mid), hag (but she has counterplay), mentioned twins (which btw also has same counterplay), nurse/blight/wesker in the open (distance is more limited, but it's still there) and I would even argue that freddy, sadako and dredge can too (but at least this requires skillful interactions and pretty good game sense to pull off - so I don't really mind it in these 3).
For your last point. Sure. Killers should not be a joke. They should get compensation buffs. I would especially really welcome something generic (meaning it's a mechanic shared for all killers) that is hard to pull off and punishes you if you don't get it right, but if you do get it, then it helps you a lot. Something like killer moonwalking, but much more extreme (survivor can fool you into loosing you altogether, but if you get it right, you can instadown even on shack pallet). To say it differently - I want for really good killer players to be able to show off. Same way as some survivors that are able to take hyperfocus and solo finish gen in 60s.
One last thing. Once you fall into a trap of camping+tunneling, you will slow down your progress (you getting better at killer). You will suddenly start to meet really good survivors that are able to mindgame you on every loop. Every pallet. And make your chase last so long, that 3 gens pop. They will start to look way too OP and you would see that survivors really do need to be nerfed because it makes no sense to try to chase. Because suddenly all chases are too easy for survivors. But the truth is, that you play against people that have multiples of your experience and they learn faster then you. Because they a tually chase and play the game without taking shortcuts. And they will see if they can make 1 more loop before dropping the pallet. And you will still win the game with 3k. But you will also feel like it was too hard... And the next game will be even harder. THIS is one of the reasons why camp and tunnel should go. It will help also killers in the long run (and again - killers should get some compensation for such a nerf. One that is very rewarding. But also one that does not force you to look at 1 spot and not move an inch)
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@dbd900bach said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3235297#Comment_3235297
That's just gross. I just downed the first one I saw then hooked him. I already had a 3k so I didn't care if the last survivor got hatch, what I did know is that they'd be forced to move now if they wanted to find it. In this specific match I found them in that way before the hatch.
Slugging and going through those lengths is just wasted time and toxic. Not to mention obscenely greedy
Agreed. And yet there are killers that just do that (same as there are survivors that hide and don't do objectives)
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@RaSavage42 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3235427#Comment_3235427
There's 0 Counterplay to SWF's (and don't sit there and type "some SWF's aren't that competitive" it doesn't matter they can flip that switch faster then Huntress can throw a Hatchet)
Gens go by fast as well... what are you going to do when this game has no Killers cause we don't want to be the test subject in matches that feature Bully Squads, Gen Squads, Noob Stomper Squads... Where the match time all depends on how the Survivors feel\
But at least we can agree on the Weak Killer needing buffs... But that's also my point they need buffs before Nurse gets Nerfed cause SWF will still exists... I am not saying that we need a SWF proof Killer but we do need Killers to be stronger against SWF's
So here's my change to Nurse.... Make her have two Blinks base kit and make it work like (that one addon that makes her be unable to Blink through walls), add more downsides onto her Range Addons by having a longer Fatigue and longer recharge... and make the opposite a thing as well decrease her Range but give her faster Fatigue and recharge, and make the Blink through walls an addon that will increase Fatigue and recharge for going through walls while also making the 2nd Blink Attacks Special cause if we make all Blinks Special Attacks then change more perks to activate on Special Attacks... also can you imagine a 1 Blink Nurse STBFL will see use on Nurse
SWF does not mean strong. There CAN BE strong SWF. But you can take 4 Ayruns together without comms and you will swear they have comms and are actual SWF. Then again. You can take someone on at least Otz level (and there are much better killer specialists) with nurse/blight/artist/wesker/spirit and even huntress or twins and you will get loong 4k win streaks all the time.
You can't take 0.01% players and say this is norm. Because otherwise there is also really good onrio player with 100 kill winstreak - does that mean she is OP and needs nerfs?
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@RaSavage42 said:
TL;DR... My change to nurse and explaining how Maps and Keys work... also how I would've changed the Hatch
1-4 I can get behind
5 I do have an issue with... what's the problem with Nurse (people have said that it's her being able to Blink through walls... some people say it's the Range addons... while others say it's her recharge)
So here's my change to Nurse.... Make her have two Blinks base kit and make it work like (that one addon that makes her be unable to Blink through walls), add more downsides onto her Range Addons by having a longer Fatigue and longer recharge... and make the opposite a thing as well decrease her Range but give her faster Fatigue and recharge, and make the Blink through walls an addon that will increase Fatigue and recharge for going through walls while also making the 2nd Blink Attacks Special cause if we make all Blinks Special Attacks then change more perks to activate on Special Attacks... also can you imagine a 1 Blink Nurse STBFL will see use on Nurse
Blight.... I forgot what those two addons do (so I can't comment on that)
Wesker... IDK what that Addon does (so I can't comment) but I will say why are we complaining about an Iri addon (it's supposed to be strong)
6... why make more Items that Survivor have to deal with... but I also think that people forget how the map works, So the Map works with static things (gens, Totems, Chests)... and you can mark certain things (and I think places) and have the other Survivors see the mark)... what else can you think of the maker Maps better
7... Keys are good enough for those players whom don't want to run Aura Reading Perks (Bond, Kindred, Dark Sense, Alert) cause that's what it does with the right addons except that it's just a press of a button away... Just because it's not used to open the hatch and let everyone go when there's 1 Gen left doesn't mean it's less useful... TBF (To Be Fair) I would've cut down the BP gained from escaping through the hatch (basically making it like a Give Up option the Survivors have) and giving the Killer bonus BP for having the Survivors take the Hatch rather then finishing out the match (seems they want to do that kind of punishment on Camping why not test it out on the Survivor side
And adding an animation to opening the hatch along with like 2.5-5 second opening timer... depending on how strong the Key is (pink keys will open the hatch in 2.5 seconds and the purple key will open the hatch in 5 seconds)
Well I am all for nerfing nurse. Because she REALLY needs it. But your nerf would swing her to the other side. It's way too much :D
For keys - how often do you see anybody ever using them? They are really bad. Even aura reading stuff would need huge buff to be worth while (at least make it's usage time instant). AFAIK people don't tend to use them even for challenges that require you to exit via hatch. It's better option to not take it and instead take left behind. Because no killer will let you live as last person if he sees anyone carrying this item. With left behind you have MUCH higher chance to actually get it.
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@roundpitt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3235467#Comment_3235467
Uh, if I chase a survivor and he leads me to the hook, where he attempts to unhook, do you expect me to back off and let him unhook?
If you are talking about face camping. That is easily punished by survivors. Do gens. The hook takes 2 minutes. Longer with certain perks. You should be able to do 4 gens if all three survivors not on hook do nothing but repair.
If he leads you to hook, you are perfectly free to down him. If he's heathy he should get 1st hit just before unhook and 2nd before saved person can take the hit (courtesy of 6.1 killer buffs). So it's trade. If you hit him before he got to hook then normal interaction proceeds - the topic is about hook grabs on heathy survivors.
For camper - survivors would need to have that perk. They need to be heathy to apply it, otherwise they would probably go down before usage (exception to multi-level map if it's not nurse) - so healing time. Also this really works only in swf, because solo will not know and they will go for save instead of staying on gens. Also after you apply it you will most likely end up injured, so it's not even 30s really (and you probably need to heal, because against camper at least 2 survivor needs to go).
On the other hand all that the killer needs to do is just stay on a single spot. Sounds fair right?
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@roundpitt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3235307#Comment_3235307
Good. Most survivors straight up give up or DC once this happens. As a killer, it feels bad, because then I don't get a real match after that. As a survivor it feels extremely bad, because now I'm going to lose no matter what I do.
Spoiler alert - if you camped for hook grabs, you didn't have real match anyway.
I can understand trying to secure hook stage at last 10-15s if survivors let one of them on hook for too long. But this interaction is mostly only abused by camping killers. Because why not? For minimal effort you get a win. No matter if you got outplayed at every loop. Just win in the end 1 chase and get a grab. With a little bit of luck and a single grab 5 gen chase can be nullified into 4k. Very fair mechanics
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@RaSavage42 said:
If they nerf the strong Killers it's just going to bleed into whomever comes next
People are going to start complaining about Huntress, Spirit, Pig (LOL), Legion, ETC...
SO why not buff the weaker Killers to be better then Nerf SWF's and the Strong Killers
because there is 0 counterplay against good nurse. I mean blight is really tough. But at least there is something. For nurse it's just matter of how quickly you all die. Not fun. But I agree with you that pig/ghostface/shape/clown/onrio/.... needs buffs. Against good survivors these killers don't stand a chance (I am disregarding iri addons)
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3235301#Comment_3235301
Yes, it does. Read what I said again.
THIS GUARANTEES AN UNHOOK.
In this scenario, no matter what, the person on the hook gets away.
Correct and desired. Killer camping a survivor should not win the game by having single good chase and lucky grab. This is 0 skill interaction noob play (by this I mean killer with 100hrs can easily win such a game against survivors with 3k hours - all he needs are 1 or 2 lucky grabs and hard facecamp - ideally with iri huntress, trickster or bubba) that should get discouraged instead of being supported.
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@Viktor1853 said:
What about camping when all the gens are done and what about when survivors keep tunnelling gens
Both things don't exist. At endgame there is no camp/tunnel as there are no other objectives. Same goes for survivor - the term makes no sense. If it made any sense then finishing a chase with down would also be considered tunneling - you normally don't leave survivors after injuring them or after getting their DH out or after 1-2 pallets are used (exceptions may apply - but that's same for both sides).
@Xernoton said:
Another thread about how killers need to be punished for camping?!
1) Camping is a SUPPORTED strategy by the devs.
2) Why would a killer not camp when they can get the most value out of it?
3) Camping and tunneling are the logical response of killers that can't keep up with the game's pace.
4) Killers should not just be punished for camping but rewarded for leaving the area.
5) Some killers are literally designed to camp.
6) If killers become prohibited from camping then so should survivors, right? Meaning no one is allowed to do a gen as long as the they are in the terror radius.
7) This is the most important. A killer camping you is not a personal insult. It's the killer trying everything they can to win.
I get it. Camping sucks. I know. But simply punishing killers for doing the rational thing is just a bad idea. Instead camping needs to be understood as an issue and fixed accordingly.
Camping and to lesser degree also tunneling is super easy and yet super rewarding and super boring. Asking DEVS (as opposed to killer players) to change this is only reasonable.
It's as reasonable as killer-players asking DEVS to remove infinite loops and abusing 1 window/loop forever for exactly the same reasons. The only difference is that one side playes killers and got their wish granted (as we have seen the catering to their side on most patches for a few years now) and the other side did not - and we see by queue times/incentives/39% what is happening with the game thanks to that.
@WesCravenFan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/350854/penalise-camping-killers
As much as I love playing DBD, I'm getting sick to death of survivors babysitting generators after I've been getting on a gen, it's happening almost every game now, why do people play as the survivor if they are to lazy to go hunting for other gens?, DBD very much favours the survivor as they get much more teammates that than us, why can't you penalise the survivors for camping at gens and also tunnelling almost finished gens, given us at least some kind of sporting chance! If they camp at gens for a period of time, then they should lose the use of their perks for a time, and constant tunnellers should get their speed reduced, just A suggestion!
You already have like 6 very usable regression perks. If you use them and survivors try to finish their 1 designated gen, you must be very bad to actually loose the game with very few exceptions (like survivors keeping 2+ BNP's for that generator).
@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3230396#Comment_3230396
If we dont adjust gen tunneling then we can't address killer tunneling either.
Both are a relevant issue and it needs to change. If chases are short and gens are longer the killer can go for more chases and not feel they have to tunnel because they lose 2-3 gens in the first chase.
Again. This person thinks patch 6.1 was nerf to killers. Don't take him seriously. Same as his "tunnel gens" "idea".
@Entitled_survivor said:
Killers already are punished for camping by allowing survivors do gens for free,, go do a gen when killer camps and stop hovering around hooks doin nothing, as boring as it is sometimes camping is not only a valid strat but also the correct play for a killer
no longer applicable after 6.1. Gens take too long compared to survivor hook stages. Especially in soloQ where survivors don't know they have to focus on gens (this was issue also prio to 6.1 for soloQ)
@WesCravenFan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234674#Comment_3234674
Yes, you can not unhook a Survivor when the killer is so close to the hook he can reach out and touch it.
How would you unhook survivor with killer far away if killer camps? There is just no way (and as stated before it's not possible to genrush him for it thanks to 6.1 buffs). Reinsurrance counters it to some degree, but there are quite a few restrictions (hooking in the open against huntress/trickster, basement bubba, ...)
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234115#Comment_3234115
Do we play different games? Or are you talking about Starstruck Nurse on Midwich? Because that's were all the people DC in my matches
You don't need midwitch btw. Just add range/recharge addons and you can pick any map you want. Even lery's (by far worst map for her in my experience) for a decent nurse to absolutely slaughter all the survivors.
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@Babadook83 said:
thye won't buff survivors. they've been completely destroying survivor the last 3/4 years. killer still complain. solo Q is in shambles.
IKR? They went so far as incentives are now 98% of a time on survivor side. You can now even rename them into survivor incentives. And yet this forum is still mostly full of buff X killer power or do Y for that killer interaction. And the most-requested things from survivor's perspective (camp/tunnel/soloQ) are just straight-up ignored -.- Sad thing
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@dbd900bach said:
I've had this issue not with full teams but in games with only two survivors left after I killed the first two. They hid the entire match until I eventually found one of them and neither bothered to do gens. They just hid until the other died.
It would be a dream to somehow prevent this as I imagine it's become more common in lower ranks
Agreed. But there is also killer's version of SAME thing. You found 1 of last 2 survivors. Now you slug him. But 4 minutes are not enough and you HAVE TO deny possibility of hatch play. So you pick up survivor and walk with him around the map. Once he wiggles - there is nothing said survivor can do other then coop with killer (this is supposed to be bannable from that survivor BTW). He can't really escape chase. Even if he loops for 20 minutes, the other survivor is not doing gens. If he goes down it just repeats. There is no way how to get out of game other then DC (or help this co-hosting taking killer). Unhealthy and boring.
I say implement aura-showing stuff, but also allow suicide after say 2 minutes the last 2 survivors are up.
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@Lastchild said:
1 to 4: Okay.
5 : No, the nurse is "forced" to use her power because her base speed is horrible.
The only solution would be to increase the nurse's base speed to 4.6 and give her a single teleport.
6 and 7: Ok (I think)
4.6 on nurse. Well. There would be nothing anyone can do anything against her. She is already broken OP as is with 1 saving grace - there are still people that don't know how to play her so you can win some games against literal noobs (I don't mean the term offensively). By making her 4.6, you basically remove the only possibility for a match where you have a chance as a survivor.
As of right now I would not be against removing the killer from the game entirely. Or reworking her to something different. Or at least add massive CD to remove her mobility - to make her equal to 4.4 killer (she would still be quicker, because she would not need to go around any obstacles) and maybe 4.6/4.8 if using 1 or 2 of range/recharge addons. I mean I used to main the killer (but I liked to bring both brown and yellow meme addons). But after 5.5 patch she is no longer any fun. She is so bonkers, that missed M1 is more punishing then getting stunned (insanely hard to this killer BTW).
But everyone knows she is way too OP. It does not matter. BHVR for some reasons would rather buff her even more (patches 5.5 and general killer buffs on 6.1)
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@AcelynnBen said:
i think survivors are broken because of how every single item and addon works
every single one them is useful in their own way, while killers.....well just look at nemesis, and tbh i never heard anyone say that this survivor item is useless
i think that's the main problem addons and items for survivors are wayyy too effective compared to their counter parts
maybe nerfing the addons and items might balance out the game without making survivors weak since we aren't touching perks
or maybe consider adding less but good addons for killers, instead of making 600 useless ones and 3 op
Every single item you say? Have you heard about keys? I mean blood amber could maybe be potentially useful if it did not have ramp-up time/allowed vaulting during use but it does not. There is nothing useful about key and/or their addons EVER (as noted by their usage). Also maps are kind of meh. Both sides have good stuff and bad stuff as was previously noted (E.g. MDR on spirit, most stuff on blight, ...)
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3233524#Comment_3233524
I'm not against it at all I'm all for buffing solo but I'm also realistic and realize that buffing solo isn't going to win that match that 2 teammates go down in 10 seconds. Sure those matches where your matched with good teammates it's going to make a huge difference but now your going to have to compensate killers for that buff and now 10 second Meg is 5 second Meg.
I guess my point is it's definitely going to help but it's not going to be a fix all.
I would argue better loading screen hints or a better tutorial would help more. Alot if people aren't going to want to go outside the game to learn in game tools would probably help players on both side.
39%... Buffing solo does not need ANY compensation EVER
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3231741#Comment_3231741
Except that, no - I get accused of proxy camping constantly. If I chase someone who I find while walking away from the hook - PROXY CAMPER RAGERAGE. If I chase someone to the hook, same thing.
I get accused of tunneling even more. And I'll make a point of not chasing the unhooked person or even hooking the same person twice in a row, unless they are literally running into me.
Clearly, this is not a definition that is universally or even widely accepted.
There will always be sore loosers. It's the same way as some killers will accuse you of gen rushing even if you bring 0 gen-speed perks and 0 toolboxes. It's just that when killer is camping, they sometimes get surprised that gens progress "that fast". Does that mean I genrushed him? Well no. He just did not apply any pressure on gens. And whatever such a killer said does not matter.
This does not mean, that there is real ambiguity what genrush means. If you bring strong toolbox and several gen-speed perks, there is no question about your playstyle. If you don't leave the hook or if you run after single survivor right of the hook (ignoring already ongoing chase and other people that go down for that survivor), there is also no question about your playstyle.
So to make it clear - do not consider genrush/camp/tunnel from people that just lost to you. They are too bitter at that moment to see what happened (and it's always your fault and not theirs). This is especially true for newer players
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3230040#Comment_3230040
Proxy camping isn't really a thing. Ditto tunneling - because nobody seems quite sure what constitutes either.
Oh they are a thing. Face camp is when you literally stand in front of hooked survivor (say within 8m) and looking directly only at him so that nobody is able to safely unhook him - you threaten to grab 100% of survivor's time. Proxy camp is when you opt out of patrolling gens and instead wait for some survivor to come to you and yet you are not close enough to face camp. There are some exception to the rule, but this covers virtually all cases.
For tunnel if you want clear cut - going after the survivor that was last unhooked (just 1 last survivor). If you are willing to accept looser definition, then going for a freshly unhooked survivor without giving him any option to hide or heal himself (or survivor opting to be "fair game" by doing gens or blocking hits - i mean it's still technically a tunneling, but it's like endgame tunnel. Nobody should be mad about it).
I think most people will agree to some degree with this. There will be some fine differences (some people don't even distinguish between tunneling and tunnel-visioning one survivor), but generally speaking this is it
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3228622#Comment_3228622
I don't buy 'survivors DC because killers play scummy' nonsense.
Not one bit.
See - I'm probably the nicest, fairest killer you can imagine. I see a DC or a suicide in maybe 50% of my games. And that's *with me bringing flans*.
This isn't a killer problem. This is a survivor problem.
I didn't say it's killer's problem. I said that from purely selfish point of view it does not make sense sticking out to loosing game or unfun game or killer you don't like etc. There is no benefit to be had.
You will get more fun playtime if you just go next and THAT in itself is a problem. The fact that 80% killers (not 100%) feel the need to (proxy or face) camp or tunnel is just another thing that just feeds into this. It's not the sole reason
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No. And it's not free. You can't use it while vaulting. If you were more patient, you would always get a hit on window
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@IlliterateGenocide said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3228497#Comment_3228497
yes, because this gives survivor opportunity to use there perks, unbreakable. And deliverance ect.
its very rare that you would have all 4 survivors on the ground so its really not that big of a hassle
also i didn't get the opportunity to try but does a survivor really get morid if he is the last one left and in exit gate, even if other survivors escaped? that is dumb and what i was worried about. I'm not looking forward to getting hit with a hatched and getting insta mori the second before I was about to leave
Yeah. That will also rob us of heal tech. Like - if you try to do it, instead of last 2 out (standing survivor making sure the other one gets thru the gate), you get 2 kills (healing survivor gets down for like a 1 second during hit CD).
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@Reshy said:
Like, how are you supposed to be stealthy when your character has loud ambient noises associated with them, or using their power makes a very loud distinctive sound to telegraph it to the survivors.
Myers is super loud with his breathing, and any time you make a milestone with your stalk it makes a loud noise notifying all survivors that they're playing against Myers even if they're the most brain dead unobservant survivor. It'd make more sense if it was played when he swings his knife or moris in tier 3, or just his chase music while in tier 3.
Ghostface has the super loud cloth flapping noises with his outfit and it has a long trailing cloth that makes him easier to notice when he's trying to mind game or move around unnoticed.
Pig's ambush has a very loud verbal cue that announces very loudly that "I am about to attack, you should probably start holding W now." Her sneaking speed is so slow you can't even use it very effectively for actually getting around unnoticed. Her presence is also spoiled by the placement of Jigsaw boxes even before she's even put a trap on someone.
Sadako has a very loud distinct noise made when attacking or using her power, with no chance of it being mistaken as a sound coming from one of the TVs. This means any time she teleports, gets stunned, attacks, etc. she makes a very loud distinct noise that survivors can easily tell what Sadako's doing.
Wraith has a very loud woosh sound associated with using his power, beyond that of the very LOUD AND NOTICEABLE bell ringing. Again, these sounds are very distinct, so there's no chance that they can be mistaken for anything other than Wraith using his power.
to make them fair? Or you want to always have guaranteed hit or even grab all the time? Sneaking on survivor is not that hard especially if you go for a generator that is in some loop and does not allow survivor to see beyond 4m distance. That would not be fun to play. That would be free hit/grab.
Also especially meyers would become way too OP with certain iri addons
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Maybe just balance the game back so that there will not be incentives for survivors 95% of a time for 100%? Right now survivor can DC and spend 5mins waiting the penalty out, 10s finidng match and like 90s to start the match. So let's say 7 minutes to brand new match. Compare this to playing out suffering game where killer camps/tunnels and slugs and you have nothing to do for 10-15 mins. It is only logical some survivors will be selfish and go next. Even more if they can suicide on hook cutting the time for next match to ~2 minutes.
If the game would become fair again and not 39% escape rate (DC's excluded so the number is actually worse), then maybe we would see killer incentives from time to time
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@K139K05 said:
Fortunately I made a buff for it a while ago, here it is:
- In addition to its current effects, Boon: Dark Theory reduced footstep volume withkn range by 50%.
- This effect also lingers for 2/3/4 seconds.
Oh. You might bump the usage by 0.1%. Footstep noise is interesting only against spirit and you need to be healthy. It's like adding 1m radius around steps to basement for territorial as an "interesting buff".
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@fake said:
I too think that tunneling in 5gen is not very healthy.
That said, I think increasing the stun time of DS based on the number of generators is an interesting idea.
However, it is also clear that the emotional aspect of the problem is not solved.
Let's say such a situation actually occurs and a 7 second stun occurs. Perhaps the 5gen tunneling killer will tunnel again to get that stun back for that 7 second stun.
At that point, I can see "DS is garbage". In fact, it is not garbage, because the DS has gained 7 seconds +α. However, the fact that "I die" will cause you to mistakenly believe that all effective phenomena were in vain.
I have already seen some people say that OTR is garbage. It is the same with this 7 seconds DS idea. It actually buys time. Yet, if you are dead, all the PERK will look like meaningless garbage.
Winning as a survivor team is a killer loss, but as long as the dead survivor complains in 1death 3escape, all perk will be called garbage.
Of course, leaving the game early due to 5gen tunneling is not funny, so we need to discuss what should be done.
But whatever buffs we get... they will complain.
Now, about DS, I think we should also test 4 seconds in the next PTB, because 3 seconds is certainly too short.
But if the DS is 7s and it will cost the killer the game, then next time killer will think twice.
The problem with tunneling & camping is not that you will have miserable game from time to time. The problem is, that you will have a good game every niw and again. Because the tactics is easy and good. So everyone who cares about win more then about fun will camp&tunnel (& genrush for that matter).
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I am pretty sure this was done by design so that survivors waste some extra travel time. Anyway, I think BTL is in a good spot. It's not meta, but it sure has it's usage.
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@darkshadows8326 said:
A good way to deal with disconnecting is that any disconnect ends the trial, remaining survivors get a tie game with killer, kills and DC's count as kills and escapes before the DC count as escapes. Very simple way to make the game bearable to those that get abandoned by their teammates, could include any survivor DC gives killer extra points while hindering their selves with extended ban timers. Perhaps returning offering to the survivors and killer left in trial.
It needs some time/event limit. 1deadhook survivor DC's after last gen pops because noed robs 3 survivors of escape. Similarly 4 deadhook survivors all on the ground with 1 DC robs killer of won game.
Frankly I don't know where the limit should be
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I take it you really just list ideas of possible effects without any regard to the actual game. But let's see:
Target locked: loose CD and need for basic attack, and you have worse I am all ears.
Bleedout - camping tunneler's dream come true. No bt, no OTR, no DH, DS is now joke, sounds like a turbospeed into getting single person out of game with hardly any counter ever. No thanks.
Noob assist - aside from hilarious name... It's just horrible version of unrelenting
Anti boon - sounds like a nice perk, but it has quite a few problems. 1, it gets usage only if boons are present 2, if you are unlucky, first boon will go over this hex rendering it useless 3, thanks to minor slowdown, survivors know about it and can stop booning (without warning survivors could be maybe fooled that maybe killer snuffed it giving some fake info about killer's position + waste more time by booning again). Overall very weak perk that would require some serious buffs to be useful (e.g. don't allow finishing booning). I think that for killer to run a perk that counters some survivor perks, it should at least do so very well (that's also why I think shattered hope should get buff).
Wall perk - it would be bad even if the speed was 100% (just walk thru the wall). A lot of maps don't contain that many breakable walls. But if you know you will end up in say saloon... I think 100% version could have some niche usage maybe.
Random blocks - fine idea. I like this one 🙂
Double basement - not a fan of this one, because basement bubba does exist (same for basement trickster and iri hatchet huntress)
Trgenslowdown - colourphobia for gens. I am not a fan. Just a personal stuff. Maybe it would be good, but I don't like it.
Ouchienotunnel - if broken takes away your health state, then it's easy camp perk. I don't like it. Otherwise it would be too weak
complications ok perk, but I don't like it. It's a bit weak and not really something I want in a game. But I don't see any real problem with it
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@rinnai said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3226326#Comment_3226326
what do you suggest in regards to its replacement? My issue with all of these killer favoured sanctions is that while there are more survivors there is much less diversity of itemisation. New survivors bring perks not items and If the killer win rate is 61% as an average, imo you're limiting a teams availability to have agency within a game.
It's hard. I don't know what should be the change. I know, that the main reason for killer complaints is, that killer is MUCH easier to pick up, but has much harder top. As a survivor if you don't learn skillchecks and loops, you will go down every time. If killer "finds" OC and notices that there exists 3gen, he will stomp all other newbs. It's pretty natural to pick up on camping (less so on tunneling, but still quite straightforward) - but it is quite hard to counter it. Killer has to learn killer ability and survivors. Survivors need to learn each and every killer where all of them are totally different and have different playstyle.
What I am getting at is, that for beginners killer is HELL OF A MUCH easier then survivor. Getting 4k after 4k is pretty easy. On the other hand survivors have hyperfocus (highest MMR stuff) and perfect looping (again the higher you go, the better for survivor - especially in regards to M1 killers). Meaning the game is fundamentally unfair.
The way to tackle it from devs is bad - just nerf everyone until top 1% (or 5% or 10% - doesn't really matter) players can enjoy the game on both sides. That's just wrong. Most of the people will suffer. And the very top will still have bad games, because camp & tunnel & stacked slowdowns is now mandatory AND boring. On the other hand survivors just hold M1 and try to get their skillcheck to rush the gens as quickly as possible (again boring).
So to actually fix the game. We need to outright remove camp & tunnel. Make it loosing tactics for every killer on every MMR (still possible, but you need to throw the game), remove possibility to finish all gens within 3-4 minutes, but don't regress the game to boring slowdown meta for 30min holding M1. On the other hand we need to introduce some generic, but hard to do stuff that killers can pull off as compensation for camp/tunnel hard nerf. This way high MMR will not need to camp/tunnel to at least stay competitive and mid/low MMR will actually get to play the game without being slaughtered in most/all of their games if killer decides to play nasty.
The actual things that would make killer express his skill? Well. I don't know. Maybe somebody can think of something.
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4% speed and 8% vaulting would make it worth trying from game to game.
Right now this could be very strong only in ironworks (hard to get to boon) or paradoxically midwitch (floor difference and long route to another floor) and maaaybe the game (similiar to midwitch, but this one does not have loops - only pallets so there is no reason to stay in one area for longer time). On most maps it would be ok as the boon should at most help in 3 loops (reach of boon) making 1 of those contain the boon (very easy snuff), but boon still eating quite some time to set up.
The boon would still be quite risky, because some killers will probably not mind much or don't mind snuffing it (wesker, blight, nurse). And some maps are too large for it to be efficient (red forest outside main, whole shelter woods)
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@rinnai said:
sure but what is the end of the discussion - currently a lot of killer mains are asking for a complete nerf to Brand New Parts
Tbh that would be good change. BNP can be as unfair as alchemist ring or double range for nurse, etc.
On the other hand - I would appreciate some noob-friendly addon on flashlight that would help with timing. RN it's insanely hard to learn the timing if you can't ask friends into customs. All I ask for is addon that will widen time-window by 0.1s. maybe in can also have some negative like wide lense with making the effective distance half the original.
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3225475#Comment_3225475
Fixing one thing by breaking others? Do you realise what you are asking about?
You say good sportsmanship is not to be expected. Then I don't understand you suggesting something that would require good sportmanship on the survivor side to begin with.
You are angry and frustrated, I understand that, but this isn't the solution the problem.
If you know a real solution to the problem, tell me, I would be glad to hear it. If not, this conversation is done from my part.
So flashlight timing fix should be reverted? Because removing 1 bad thing (bm, health issues) is no good if we also remove good thing (lesser consumption, easier readjust and better 360). Oh right. We can swap more broken things for less broken only if it helps killers. Noted.
@Starrseed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3225475#Comment_3225475
But that's not the way to go. Just imagine how it would feel for a killer to do the right thing and don't tunnel just for the unhooked surv to come and use that anti tunnel perk as a weapon.
It would certainly help with tunneling and with the long killer q times cause we would just go back to the before times where we didn't have enough killers.
As was stated multiple times. All you need to do is keep him on the ground. That's it. He will not do anything for prolonged time just for a single hit.
But to the topic. Maybe make DS 7 or 8s, but disable it also when healed or outside chase for 15s (countdown can start immediatelly after unhook if killer does not camp). Reset and double the timer when downed and get rid of 60s cd it currently has. This should almost guarantee intended usage only.
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There are so many counters to the perk. Just let the survivor drop (not with you on the shoulder) to wiggle free from height - stagger will make him be in very short distance from you for very easy re-down on flat floor.
Moving to sides does nothing if you are not in lery's or other indoor map/going thru doors.
The only real effect is hiden aura of close-by hook. So once you become a little observant, you will understand that the perk makes almost totally (you can still get stuck on a doors sometimes if you don't take care enough) 0 difference ever.
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Most of the perk do not think about what it would do with the game/balance. They are ok idea for regular game, but once in combo/combined with something, most of them are just bad
In the dark - all it does is easier tunnel.
Hacksbro - devaluates strong pallets = promotes wasting good (or rather god) pallets. This in itself reduces skill expression - bad for game. It would be fine if all pallets were created equal.
Undesired - no. Pentimento and huge regression perks exists.
Rage - different version of brutal strength. I personally don't like another perk that punishes you for pallet stuns, but maybe it's ok.
Dying escape - closing gate is a problem. What about EGC and time? What about being trapped behind (or in) closed gate?
Smell the sauce - needs buff
growing tolerance - worse enduring that makes sense only if stacked with enduring.
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@adsads123123123123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3224790#Comment_3224790
I'll take that change. In fact, there would probably be less need to tunnel and camp if it wasn't for Dead Hard because of how powerful it is in chase.
Cool. Now we are in agreement. But no (partial) going back
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@adsads123123123123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3224697#Comment_3224697
I don't even play Trickster. He's just an example for how the new Dead Hard is stronger against killer powers. New Dead Hard is stronger against most killer powers. There's a long list of killers I can go on where new Dead Hard is stronger. Here are some more examples:
Huntress: old Dead Hard: survivor dodges hatchet w/e. You can throw another one shortly after. New Dead Hard: survivor gets a speed boost and makes it to another loop and Huntress has to catch up to them with her 110 ms.
Bubba: survivors are guaranteed to Dead Hard against Bubba's Chainsaw. There's nothing Bubba can do. Against old Dead Hard, you just keep chasing them with Chainsaw and they die
Pig: new Dead Hard: they get speed boost and run away. Old Dead Hard: you keep chasing them with your charge attack and get the hit
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3224699#Comment_3224699
Honestly, I bet that's what you say to every killer that asks for survivor nerfs. Doesn't matter what the killer says. They're a cry baby if they ask for survivor nerfs.
I have no idea how not breaking from chase has anything to do with this. Getting Dead Harded in an uncounterable way is something that happens to every killer. Here is an example of this https://clips.twitch.tv/TenaciousUglyMallardUncleNox-HrJ-TjhuvYDTJkRe. If you think it's fair that the survivor can Dead Hard to escape with little to no counter in a situation where they misplayed like in this example, please elaborate. Thank you.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3224700#Comment_3224700
Yes. Worse than Freddy. Trapper is considered the worst killer by many. He is at least bottom 3 if you don't think so.
I agree. Delete DH. But delete camping and tunneling. Fair deal. Both are unfair to play against and provide advantage to other side.
If not, then I am absolutely against YET ANOTHER killer buff
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It works both way. Last time I played nurse (to do my daily) I hit survivor like this without ever seeing him. Just push M1 and rotate your camera and it will pick closest target to you (be it rock or survivor next to you).
I think this feature should really go away. If I missed, then I should miss. If I hit my target, I should hit my target. No locking for environment or survivor is fair.
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@FellowKillerMain said:
BHVR: "duh! *****"
Well, I've never been so happy to have been proved wrong. I think you guys did a great job with patch 6.1.0 and I'm hoping you keep with adjusting things to make the game more equitable regardless of role.
I've been playing for a few weeks now and haven't found the game to be completely different, but different enough to be refreshing. Survivor is a little bit harder but not so hard that it will deter newer players. I know some people have said otherwise regarding solo queue, but that's always been problematic. Killer feels better, and less like survivors are playing with handicaps. I mean, just being able to counter dead hard has been amazing, and probably the greatest relief of all.
I'm hoping that next the maps are looked at, because the problem I find I run into the most now is the inconsistency between tiles and how tiles are distributed. There have been a lot of games where I break more than 10 pallets. It reminds me of when the clown was released, and how pallets were distributed then - granted, that was a lot worse.
Oh but the game is super unfriendly on beginner soloQ survivor players. Starting players can't loop (it takes time to learn it and understand mid vs fast vault). Starting players can't hit basic skillchecks -= inform killer + eat more then ~12s gen progress. OC is pure nightmare. Flashlights probably don't do anything (yes killer needs to learn look up/down), pallets can't stun (you need timing) and don't give you time needed for gens to complete (inefficient teammates/wasted pallets)
On the other hand basic killer is easy to grasp. Just run around and swing at anything in front of you. You don't need your powers (yet). Also camping survivors should be very natural and impossible for beginner survivor to counter in any way.
I am pretty sure any survivor starting this game after patch 6.1 needs some help from someone more experienced, or dedication of a monk or he outright quits. The options are not exclusive.