Gandor
Gandor
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@VaporLion said:
i think there should be more counterplay or a rework on certain maplayouts with 3 gens. good example for broken 3 gens is Azeroth Resting Place but even a survivor sided map like gideon meat plant can provide a nasty 3 gen. if the killer just camps a good 3 gen the entire game there is literally nothing you can do to win. you can do the other 4 gens sure but after that its over. as long as the killer doesnt overcommit, hell always win. with gen degress perks like call of brine its even more busted.
maybe add a perk that gives you more genspeed in lategame to break 3 gen combos.
honestly i think prove thyself could do excatly that. feels a bit too strong in general.
could start at like 10% efficiency and every completed gen gives you another 10%. ( im not sure what the exact numbers should be, just putting an example ).
Gideon is not survivor sided. It's very much about killer/build. Get regular freddy or oni for easy win. Get nemesis or nurse for quick stomp. Get wraith or legion and it all depends on his addons/perks.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3240752#Comment_3240752
Your math is off, keep in mind that players have four perk slots. So the average perk usage is actually about 3.5% for survivors (with 113 perks) and 4% for killers (with 100 perks), not 1%.
Pls reread 🙂 I agree 4% is average (hence my uniform distribution)
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3240699#Comment_3240699
Here's the historic chart for Dragon's Grip. 6.1.0 was the perk rework, and you can see it got a bump for a bit after that but has since fallen out of favor back to its pre-rework usage numbers.
I see about 100 killer perks and if I take the graphs recent usage, I see something above 1%. That is already not horrible. I mean some minor buff still makes sense, but perks above 2% should probably not get any more buffs (with 100 perks and 4 per game 4% usage on every perk is equal distribution - meaning all perks are equal and people pick them uniformly). But it's funny that I see (or at least perceive) much more usage of the perk.
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/351835/lack-of-regional-servers
Totally for more locations. I don't have the problem myself but in EU Central (Frankfurt I guess) there are a lot of players from eastern Europe because there is no EU East server. And if you get a killer with bad ping (the icons show) because of server locations you also get these 5km hits through windows. Even if your ping is good.
Tbh your clip with the first Wesker is nuts. There, the bad killer ping icon also lit up. I really don't understand why window and pallet hits have no hit validation yet. If they have, this should be fixed.
Agreed. I am also from EU and can say the same when playing against especially Russian players.
But validation would not fix it. You loop by seeing/hearing where the killer goes. If you decide too late, because of bad killer's ping, you will not get that window even after this validation.
This can only be fixed by more server locations and showing ping in lobby (for easier dodge).
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@dugman said:
Continuing a series of threads on the least picked perks according to Nightlight, next up is Blight's perk Dragon's Grip (0.63% usage)
Dragon's Grip - After damaging a generator, for the next 30 seconds, the first Survivor that interacts with it will scream, revealing their location for 4 seconds, and becoming afflicted with the Exposed status effect for 60 seconds. Dragon's Grip has a cooldown of 120/100/80 seconds. Exposed Survivors will be downed by basic attacks even if uninjured.
The good thing about this perk is Exposed hits can be really valuable. Even one or two instant downs on a healthy survivor can build a lot of killer momentum. And 60 seconds is a pretty decent amount of time to be Exposed as well, it's long enough that the killer has an ok chance of finding the Exposed survivor again and maybe hitting them before it runs out. And it even gives the killer an idea of where the survivor is when it triggers.
The perk does have some downsides though which is probably why it doesn't get used too often
- The perk has a fairly long cooldown. So if you kick a gen to place it then it takes a while before you can do it again. Realistically you're probably only going to be able to place this perk on gens a few times a match before time runs out, so that means the number of possible times it might trigger is likewise limited. And unlike, say, Haunted Grounds, it only affects one survivor per trigger, not all of them, so the number of survivors potentially hit by this perk is going to be small.
- Even if you kick a gen to place this perk, it lasts for 30 seconds and then goes away. It's quite possible for survivors to simply move to a different gen for that time and never trigger this. Of course, the upside then is the gen you kicked will be regressing for 30 seconds, so if you combo this perk with Call of Brine or Overcharge then the survivors will lose a lot of its progress, so at least when paired with those it can put the survivors in a tricky situation of stopping regression and becoming Exposed or not becoming Exposed and losing time.
- Also a minor downside is that Exposed only triggers on basic attacks and some killers simply prefer to use their special attacks instead when possible (e.g. Huntress, Wesker, Victor in the Twins, etc). And since the killer doesn't necessarily know specifically which survivor is Exposed from this perk unless they saw it happen they might not know to use a basic attack instead of their special one when this is in play. That probably cuts slightly into the number of killers that try this perk out in the first place.
Overall Dragon's Grip might not be used much but still be kind of ok, especially if you pair it with Call of Brine and/or Overcharge on a killer who primarily uses basic attacks and maybe has decent mobility to reach survivors who scream at a distance (e.g. I could maybe see this being a decent combo on Dredge since they can teleport close to a scream and, during Nightfall, even have an ok chance of ambushing the Exposed survivor quickly.) Dragon's Grip by itself on its own might not be that exciting, though, so I could maybe see it benefiting from a very slight buff to increase its usage a bit?
If it were to get modestly buffed, some possible ways to do it could include:
- Increase that 30 seconds time limit so it lasts longer on the gen you kick. The longer it lasts the more likely it will trigger.
- Increase the 60 second Exposed time. 60 seconds is already pretty good in my opinion but obviously the longer it lasts the more likely the killer can take advantage of it.
- In addition to the scream, show the aura of the survivor who triggers Dragon's Grip for a short time. That would help the killer get a better sense of what direction they were running away from the gen to better catch up to them.
- Reduce the 80 second cooldown. The lower the cooldown the more often you can place the effect on gens and the better the chance some of them will pay off.
- A more unusual buff might be to highlight the outline of the survivor who is under the Dragon's Grip effect to make them stand out from other survivors if they're in line of sight of the killer (similar to how Freddy's ability highlights survivors who are in Dream state or Sadako's ability highlights survivors who have high amounts of Condemned status.) If the killer can differentiate who is Exposed from this perk versus who isn't it could maybe help them prioritize their targets when there are multiple survivors in view. Or you could even simply have Dragon's Grip have a side effect that it highlights ANY Exposed survivor for the killer, making it have additional synergy with other Exposed effects from things like Haunted Grounds or Devour Hope or various ultra rare add-ons, etc.
How recent are the stats? I mean. Before meta shakeup I never saw the perk. But now with gen kicking meta.... I mean dragons grip is still not meta perk, but I would say I see it every like 15th game. Which should be often enough.
Anyway I think the CD is ok, but the perk should reactivate immediatelly if it did not trigger exposed (same way as blast mine used to work). Using this perk together especially with Overcharge should be strong combo in this case making it decent (but not meta) perk choise.
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@TeabaggingGhostface said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3240315#Comment_3240315
Seeing what the survivors bring is one of the few advantages killer has
Sure. 61% killrate "agrees" with you (and this does not count games where somebody DC's). Higher base speed. Abilities that survivors never have. Many changes that buff killers. Much stronger perks. Camping and tunneling addressed NEVER (to satisfying degree). But your "only" advantage is, that you can see what survivors bring.
Well if you want the game to have 30mins killer queue time than go on and promote this trend developers have for last several years. I am sure you will enjoy the game when there will be more killer players then survivors.
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@FrodoTbaggins said:
You shouldn't be able to switch items last second in lobby. It's not all that fair to the killer who could have countered their item choices with perks. Plus it just clues me in that I'm dealing with an swf which is, for someone of my low experience in this game, just leaves me feeling defeated before the game even starts.
@TeabaggingGhostface said:
Survivors should be fully locked in at 15 secs
@PB_TORCHer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3240062#Comment_3240062
It’s shady and toxic. Idk what you’re telling yourself. I hate survivors that do this. You think your sly and pulling a fast one. So yes TOXIC
It's toxic that devs decided to show what survivors are using in the first place. More so, because killers can bring anything and survivors don't even know what killer is against them. This is toxic. Ability to switch last second is still unfair to survivors. Get over it
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I don't like special treatment for soloQ. It subtly hints that all swf are on comms and can relay information perfectly, which is 100% not true.
Ping system and perk loadout in game and in lobby + action indicators should close the gap just fine without the need to handicap swf compared to solo
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/351912/better-together-should-work-backwards-as-well
that perk is called bond.
Bond has no conditions and so is infinitely more useful when running. The perks do totally different things even if they both show aura in 32m
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@TorQueMoD said:
Small Game is very useful if you're running a Boon or any other perk that relies on Totems, however, it actually gets worse as you level it as the range increases. This means that you get notified of totems that are still hidden and sometimes it takes ages to find them, especially on levels where there're multiple floors. Could you guys please decrease the range as it levels?
Just use detectives hunch. Small game does same thing but much worse
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3240200#Comment_3240200
That's only true if you're camping and tunnelling. I thought we weren't supposed to do that.
And yet it happens in vast majority of all games. I mean delete all boons for all I care if you remove camp and tunnel.
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@Seraphor said:
As I said when CoH first came out; killers do not want or need a second objective.
Time investment is one of the ways in which this game is asymmetrical, survivors can safely spend time doing secondary objectives, slinking around the map, scouting out potential plays, hiding, doing absolutely nothing, and their gameplay is not impacted. Meanwhile killers literally need to make the best use out of every second of the game in order to turn it in their favour.
It is not even a straight cut case of the killers time being worth 4 times of a survivor, it's not as simple as that. 14 seconds to boon a totem is not equal to the time it can potentially take to find and snuff it out. It is not a straight trade.
This is why destroying boons when snuffing should have always been a basekit feature, and this ridiculous idea that "some killers might want to force survivors to spend time reblessing" is nonsense. No killer has ever wanted this, because it doesn't work. I've been in situations where I've snuffed out a boon 5, maybe 10 times, and all it takes is one survivor to keen reblessing it, while the other three progress the objective, it's like pissing in the ocean. Simply put, keeping a boon out of action is only possible if you identify the booner and tunnel them out of the game.
Further more, totems should be a finite resource. The second best healing perk before CoH was Inner Healing, which gives you ONE heal per totem. ONE. CoH gives unlimited heals per totem. The power gap between those two perks is measured in lightyears.
So Shattered Hope's ability to destroy a boon should be basekit, and in exchange, boons themselves should have other buffs, such as not alerting the killer to their presence by a global sound effect. This allows survivors to make use of their limited use totems, before killers identify them and snuff them out. This would bring them more in line with other similar survivor perks like Inner Healing, and in line with how Hexes work as finite effects. It would also mean blessing a hex totem wouldn't need to take twice as long.
Oh that's totally wrong. 61%. If there's someone who can afford to not be efficient, it's killers. Maybe you did not notice patch 6.1
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@Bran said:
I continue to say if a survivor it downed on the gate they should be barred from leaving. Giving killers enough time to pick them up.
There are legitimate reasons when survivors get down in gate - e.g. to stall killer so other survivors have time to escape. So hard NO.
@XANA7274 said:
So sick of survivors getting a hard on to t-bagging at the gates. Like, you won, congrats, isn't that awesome. So go already.
If you're gonna stick around and be toxic, I think it's only fair that if you sit in the Exit Gates for more than 5 seconds, and the Killer enters the exit gate area with you, Bloodwarden activates.
Sure. While we are at it, unhook survivor and reset 1 hook state if he starts to hit survivor on the hook. Also allow soul guarded unbreak if killer slugs after last survivor is downed and killer does not pick up said survivor. Same reasons...
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@GatorsRaid said:
When wiggling off a killers shoulder you get a .5 sec stagger which hinders the survivor to get away. This perk would give them a slight speed boost to counteract the stagger. Tier 1- 5% speed boost for 1 sec. Tier 2- 10% speed boost for 2 secs. Tier 3- 15% speed boost for 3 secs.
Waste of effort. 15% speed boost for 3s is 0.6m distance. That's 3s extended chase time after wiggling free. Most matches you will wiggle free 0 times. But at most 3 extra seconds (if it's not mobility killer, 110% killers don't count because they will use ability to negate the effect) makes 0 sense even if it's used in sabo squad.
Anyway the perk makes very little sense one way or another - even if the numbers were higher
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@dugman said:
Continuing a series of threads on the least picked perks according to Nightlight, next up is Elodie's perk Appraisal (0.43% usage)
Appraisal - Start the trial with 3 tokens. When a chest has already been opened, consume a token to rummage through it for an item. Rummaging can only be performed once per chest. You rummage through chests 40/60/80% faster.
Truth be told, I don't play survivor that often, but when I do my survivor of choice is always Plunderer Ace because it's kind of fun just going around grabbing random crap from chests. 🙂 (He uses Plunderer's Instinct, Appraisal, Ace in the Hole, and Open Handed). I'll go in with some cheap tools, head to a gen near a chest, use the tools up, loot the chest and hope I get something useful, and then use that and so on. It's a total gimmick, definitely not even close to being a meta build or anything, but I have fun with it.
That disclaimer out of the way, I can understand why Appraisal isn't used that much.
- Are the tokens even necessary? Honestly, would this perk even be close to overpowered if it simply let you loot every chest twice? Why does it even have these tokens at all, it's just an unnecessary complication.
- Just for reference, it normally takes 10 seconds to open a chest and loot what's inside. Appraisal reduces that to 5.6 seconds. Hypothetically if you rummage around in chests four or five or six times that can add up to a bit of savings, but I suspect since a lot of people don't really notice it when they rummage an individual chest they don't really think about that benefit.
- Another ding in its popularity is probably simply that I suspect looting chests is seen as a distraction from the main goal of repairing the gens and escaping and even from secondary goals like healing and rescuing each other. It takes some time traveling to a chest in the first place, after all, and then it takes time to loot it, and even when you loot it you might just get an item like a key or flashlight that you might not bother using anyway. If you do happen to get a toolbox it can save time on the gens but when you factor in the amount of time you spent looting that toolbox it's not as big a benefit as you might think. A medkit can be useful to heal yourself, but again you could have spent that time maybe just finding another survivor who can heal you if you can't do that. So while the items are kind of fun to play around the time it takes to get them out of chests kind of eats away at their benefit. Of course if you also run, say, Plunderer's Instinct and/or Pharmacy with this it speeds up the process of finding the chests and you're more likely to get an item you want, but now you're looking at multiple perks to loot chests which isn't something a lot of people are probably interested in. (I do it for fun but I'm weird! 🙂)
So I do think this perk could probably use a bit of a change or buff to make it a little more popular and maybe help it stand on its own.
- The main buff that jumps out is remove those token, they're not needed at all.
- Also you could maybe simply reduce the Rummage time on an already opened chest to 1 second, basically making it as close to instant as animation allows. That extra time shaved off would make rummaged items worth that much more benefit in total.
- Another possible buff would be to give Appraisal an aura effect similar to Plunderer's Instinct where you can see the auras of already opened chests. (So you'd have Plunderer's Instinct shows you auras of closed chests while Appraisal shows you auras of opened chests.) This would maybe help Appraisal stand a little more on its own a bit.
One last note, in the long run I think part of the reason appraisal and Plunderer's are less popular is simply that, while toolboxes and medkits are obviously useful, the other types of items are definitely perceived as being not quite as good. Flashlights are fun but honestly not that great overall since time spent trying to flashlight saves is usually better spent on gens. Maps can be somewhat handy but I think aren't used as much simply because once you know where something is you don't really need the map for it. And Keys, while they might on rare occasion let you escape at the end of a match, are really only useful for their secondary aura abilities from various add-ons. So in the long run I do think the game might be well served to reexamine Maps, Keys, and Flashlights and maybe buff or merge some of their abilities to put them more on par with tools and medkits. (For example, you could merge Maps and Keys into a single Compass like item that has both the aura effects and the hatch opening effect. That would both reduce the item clutter in bloodwebs and from chests and also give a new stronger type of item that might be a little more in line with tools and medkits.) If or when a broader item adjustment happens then I think it would also in the process help perks like Appraisal or Plunderer's Instinct.
I like and also hate the idea. All these buffs would make the perk more appealing. The problem is that looting chests even if it was instant is still something that helps killer more then survivor team. Any perk that encourages looting is killer's perk in disguise.
Then again - if we do want to buff this perk I think even all of these things combined would not make it too OP. Maybe reducing the time to 1s might be a little too much, but it still promotes going for chests so...
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
There shouldn’t be any perk that affects mending at all because it would be infinitely more useful against legion than any other killer. That’s not good design.
same as medkits are terrible against plague? Vigil is not even popular. I don't think it would be too OP
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@The_Scarlet_Witch said:
Trapper-one of his traps auto set every 30 seconds, he carries three traps.
Michael Myers-He gains evil when hitting a survivor, and gains more when killing a survivor, survivors performing conspicious actions increase their juicing bar.
Sadako-Reduce tv teleport please, make condemnation stacks obtainable after a said amount of time, like gain a stack every 60 seconds, sadako stays manifested after teleportation but she is able to hit a survivor within 10 seconds after teleportation while in manifestation. Remove red stain for 5 seconds after demanfistating cool down 20 seconds.
Amanda/PIGGY-Three hooks in the trail are now game hooks, RBT activate after a survivor has been unhooked if they were hooked previously on a game hook, traps activate after an exit gate is powered, either remove dash or buff it, its so bad. if replaced i would maybe add a dash grab attack, where she can grab healthy survivors and put traps on them without depleting her maximum traps in her inventory, make her crouching and unchrouching speed quicker, reduce TR to 24m
Freddy-give him dream pallets and snares. same ability
the twins-either buff victor or rework his mechanics, perhaps make him ai controlled.
ghost face-while night shroud is active hit cool down reduced by 20 percent
nemesis-rework stupid worthless add ons and fix zombies
legion-rework his power, add an ai legion member, if its frank you will have jullie. if its joey you get the other one. keep feral frenzy.
meyers can't be buffed until tombstones are reworked or deleted
pig - too many buffs. I mean those ideas are OK, but not all of them
twins - are actually very strong already in hands of skilled killer. They are just very much not fun. They don't need any buff. They need rework
And I don't know about legion - that could create too OP killer or it could be new zombies. I don't like that idea.
Other ideas are fine
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3239427#Comment_3239427
Uh i think you replied to the wrong person dude?
yes I edited the answer.
But to be constructive. Lifting distance requirement for aura reading for boons should still be OK. Making shattered hope basekit is very unwise idea borderline killing the perks altogether
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3239030#Comment_3239030
You want to make boons exactly like hexes, so i proposed an equally stupid idea
Making boons actually breakable by basekit and without any buffs to compensate would make boons useless, as if most werent besides COH already
If you care abt boons so much as killer either use shattered hope or ignore them, simple as that
They take time away from doing gens anyway to set it back up, if its annoying for you, nobody's forcing you to snuff them
No I made an exactly as stupid idea as "xni" did with his "actually pretty good idea"
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@xni6_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3238760#Comment_3238760
you know that a killer snuffing a boon takes the time it takes to walk over to the boon which can be upwards of 30 seconds on some maps for some boons, then the animation, then the whole time until a new chase is started or gen is kicked which can be another 30-60 seconds (if a survivor were to place a boon and taking this exact amount of time, gens are still getting done since its a 4v1)
so youre suggesting to add minimum 10 seconds to this action, and making it so the boon can be instantly placed somewhere else (no risk all reward, kinda like it is currently, except its even more in the survivors favor)
and yeah, some boons arent that good, but coh exists, is basically infinite barely slower medkits, and is so ridiculously strong that if a boon is placed its always coh
so map wide 21 second heals. wow that sounds fun. no scratch marks or auras on the entire map? awesome. permanent 16 second unbreakable? the killer doesnt even get time to check around for pallet savers before the person gets up, thats amazing. permanent haste? yeah its 2% but thats still added distance, those poor 4.4s, sounds great
so now you can see youre an idiot, and how my idea is actually pretty good, its still 5 boons a game, and that means the killer still has to go and hunt down 5 totems to destroy bc my change wont even cut down the time of the first part, its just the same spot cant be used twice
1, it can take 2-5 minutes to find totem on some maps. Survivors don't have sound aid and blue visual like killers
2, if killers takes 30-60 seconds to start chase, the problem is killers not boon
3, boons are huge risks. inner healing, overzelous, full hex build (everyone cleanses totems), bad map with hard to find totems (e.g. lery's), doctor wish shocks/retribution/undying, plague and also shattered hope - meaning you can end up without possibility to heal at all
4, it's not map wide. It's very localized. On avarage it takes 30 seconds to move to boon area + heal. That is super risky, because you have to move thru the map where killer can see you - and killer can deliberately fish for you in boon if he knows the location. +14s for actual heal. Meaning boon is worse then self care on it's own if you want it just for yourself. your 21s heal is NEVER reality.
5, other boons are not even worth mentioning. Shadow step will help you only in maps where you can hide your line of sight (meaning interier only) - if you are hit, then you get almost 0 value. Also it's noisy and visible and easy to snuff so the perk is used very sparingly. Exponential is the same - the perk could be valueable if it did not work in small radius only and if the radius at least did not contain strong warning that boon is in the play = you can MAYBE use it once. UB works once no matter where you are. And dark theory. Those 2% on such a limited spot (if you could know it's dark theory it's not even worth to snuff it even if you bump into it) helps you exactly NEVER. Nobody uses that perk. The chance that it helps you is nonexistend. People that bring it are people that play perk rulet and that's about it.
"so now you can see youre an idiot" - and your idea is just terrible. Making shattered hope base means boons are dead. It's the same as saying killer should need to hex totems for 14 seconds and those hexes should have same radius as boons - you can still get value from dhope if you kill people in that spot and you should now see my idea is actually pretty good.
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@AetherBytes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3238194#Comment_3238194
I mean, I understand that, but it doesnt stop it being an issue. If nerfing COH visibly reflects on the kill rate, then we can slightly nerf killers until it comes back in line.
But this is it. In my SWF games heal is convenience that I don't really need. Brown medkit is all I need. But solo is different. Nerfing self healing ability will just create bigger divide between solo vs SWF. The idea should be to lower the devide. Not make it any bigger
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@Archol123 said:
For the first part... As far as I know you just used to need to have better timing and they made this fast hit easier to not make people struggle as much. I would not mind the pallet stun thing being added again, but then again weapon wipe animations and so on also get canceled by the pallet stun... and you should honestly never try to use pallets against a nurse, but yeah like I said, I' m fine with making stuns + fatigue a thing again, even though I don't believe it will change much.
I mean her hitting you before you can see her would only apply if she blinks on top of you without line of sight...Because otherwise you can try to get to a different place during the time it takes for her to blink. Otherwise aura reading I guess? And with aura reading you either can keep the aura reading perks in mind and react to it once you've made sure she has it or do what people usually do and pre run.
I don't think you can balance this game for different skill levels of players all at the same time without contradicting yourself when it comes to different groups... So i guess the middle ground has to be fine, as we got nothing else ^^
The part about demo is not true, you can absolutely hit people in the vault animation, Demogorgon is basically my most played killer and i usually just wait for them to start the vault animation and then just shred at the window, Demogorgon moves so fast during the shred it will still hit, only if you waited too long it will miss but most of the time it hits. The gen in shack also makes demo struggle a bit more but i think it is mostly possible to still hit the shred, you just need to be a bit more precise. But when you vault from the outside in he struggles, so yes in the end wesker is still better at that point.
My point is more like that at a certain degree of skill it does not matter anymore, because the game is over anyway... When you have a well coordinated group of survivors the gens will be done in 4-6 minutes if 3 of them are constantly on gens (depending on how big the map and the distance between gens is...)... So I don't really think it matters if you loop the killer for 5 or 8 minutes, the game is over anyway as soon as you've reached that point... I mean sure it is still more impressive the longer you loop the killer on a limited amount of ressources, but when we're outside of the 1v1 setting again everything above the time it takes the team to finish all gens is just luxury, that's what I meant.
I just read the 5.5.0 patchnotes and that thing you mentioned is not even in it... The removal of fatigue after pallet stun is but not the quality of life thing where you don't need to press the attack button perfectly to hit right after the blink... But a lot of other bugs considering her...
Like I said before if this is the same thing we're both meaning then it was already possible before to hit immediatly after the blink, it was just waaaaaaay harder to do so...
I doubt it was possible. After 5.5 I hit a survivor with my back. I never saw him. I just used M1 after second blinking at his direction. This was from my (killer's) POW. This never happened before 5.5. I mean sure. Nurse was always broken. But not THAT much. I now refuse to play her when not having daily. It's just too much.
Also hit right after blink - if my memory serves, there was always like 0.1s delay. Maybe even longer. It's no longer there now. The delay made a huge difference. Especially in chases. Also why buff hands down best killer in the game? Makes very little sense to me. I mean. I would understand if they lowered skill floor and also lowered skill ceiling. But just buffs? I don't get that
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@cheryl_enjoyer said:
I think some kind of aura reading should be basekit for killers. Hiding survivors are the worst, and its even worse if they manage to do gens while hiding. I got a game with people with maybe 100-200 hours in game as a 1700 hour nurse on boneyard and couldnt find anyone for 3 gens. They couldnt last long in chase so it was pretty frustrating to not be able to find anyone. That was the match I vowed to always have a perk slot open for bbq.
i am sorry but you play nurse. What would you expect? If legitimate hiding (all hiding against nurse but 2+ gens for last 2 people) is problem for you, sacrifice 1 perk slot for spies from shadow or whisperer
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@Archol123 said:
I just think about Blight it not like you can do nothing but more like ping pong, whatever you do he can do something about it, so there is still skill involved and what you can do might work, but mostly when the Blight cannot react in time. He can get a hit on most generic tiles.
For the hard to master killers I think there already are quite a lot of them, obviously not all the same hardness of mastery but Pyramid Head, Huntress, Nurse, Billy, Blight, Wesker (maybe), Deathslinger, Artist (if you try hitting crossmap birds otherwhise she is pretty easy).
I don't know about the shack thing for wesker since he is quite similiar to demogorgon in hise power usage I think even the average wesker should be guranteed a hit at shack, unless it has a generator inside. Yeah he cannot really use his powers at rock loops, which is fine I think.
The difference to nurse is Wesker can just M1 you at a tile where he cannot use his power, Nurse must be able to use her power at every tile in the game as it is the only way for her to get hits otherwise you would to just abandon chase as soon as somebody reaches a certain structure (which you might to anyway because it can be to time consuming to chase there (main building in saloon for example).
I cannot imagine that there is only one person that is that good... Even he is the best, which I don't know I would think there are still many players that are good enough in chase so M1 killers won't a down in a reasonable amount of time. It does not have to be 8 minutes for the survivors to win the game, if the other three teammates stay on gens for the entire 4-5 minutes is enough for a 5 gen run... I think it is highly unlikely that there is only 1 really good survivor for the same reason as I think there is not only one unbelievably good killer xy, I think there are some god nurse, god blights and whatever but there are not that many of them to frequently encounter them in matchmaking.
Billys skill ceiling is basically the same, it is about the outcome, but I think that's what you meant anyway. The skill ceiling is only the amount of sill required to master him I think, and that portion is really high about him, but what you get for mastering him is really limited.
Yeah sure, camping and tunneling should get nerfed, I think we can nerf some addons of nurse and blight, but their basekits are mostly fine (except the exposed on nurse).
I'm not sure about the generic stuff, I mean basically m1 killer gameplay is already that kind of thing so the question is how long would it take people to figure out how this new generic things work and then you're just in a circle where you need to come up with a new gameplay mechanic every time to keep some killers viable :/
In the military trained comparison i would not make an exception for nurse as she can still loose in that tournament setting, but when we take away camping in tunneling in that setting we would need to come up with a buff for nurse... Let's say our target is not tunneling and camping but 2 hooking everybody before somebody dies... In a comp setting there would need to be some delay in the flow of the game to make up for it even on nurse, and I have absolutely no idea how to manage that... Longer gen duration? More gens? All seems terrible so... Clueless on that one...
The all around problem is for which group of players are we balancing stuff? Obviously not for comp players, as nurse seems to be fine on that end... If we go for the mediocre players like most people (you and I and probably 60-80% of people) we would still run into problems with better guys... Maps being too safe or unsafe for them, the same for worse players or beginners :/
But to go back to the nurse topic... Do you think Nurse needs more change than nerfing her addons and making it impossible to one shot people with blinks? Because since we're probably not balancing for the god nurses in our mid range setting she can be looped, so that should be all there is to it? Without the exposed which shortens change drastically it should be fairly possible to win against her.
For the nurse topic - yes I think her base kit is not OK. I think it was barely OK before 5.5 patch. But right now she can kill you before you can see her (desynch allows her to hit you before you can possibly see her. Before patch 5.5 there was small delay before you could hit. Right now she can hit just before she finishes her blink (or at least lock her target before she finishes). Another point is, that they changed how stun works. Before this rework, if you were lucky enough - you would be able to stun nurse with pallet. The result of it was full stun duration + fatigue time - which was punishing enough that she lost quite a distance. Right now stun duration and fatigue time and recharge run at the same time. It means that stunning nurse gives you less distance then nurse missing M1 - so if you stun, you will go down in next blink. That is just wrong.
About balance - ideally you balance for every skill group separately. Meaning you buff/nerf easy to do stuff for low MMR and you buff/nerf hard to do (but more rewarding) things for more skilled players. If this is not possible, you balance for above avarage player base as a compromise between rewarding skillful stuff and targeting most of the player base. But you still have to keep in mind that if you make the game too bad for beginners, you will slowly loose your player base, because you will not keep beginners long enough for them to actually become good. So you never want to have too hard game for basically any skill group.
Wesker is better at shack then demo. He can hit you the same if you vault and if you don't (he just needs to have both charges and need to be good). Demo has to make it before survivor vaults...
For Steve1v1 topic - I don't really know him. There is Otz's video that exactly showed this tournament. And I think the difference between best and steve was like 3 minutes of chase. I mean. 3 minutes can be enough to pop at least 4 gens. And that's only difference. That guy is on different level then anyone else.
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@DBD78 said:
Nurse is the only strong killer that could be a problem, but there are so few OP Nurse players so why make Nurse even worse for 95% of the players who sometimes play Nurse when she have the lowest kill rate? Makes no sense so..nerf no killer!
After 5.5 and then 6.1 i say 20%-30% nurses are a problem.
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@darkshadows8326 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3226880#Comment_3226880
How about any downed survivors on disconnect trial end count as a kill for the killer, if the survivor side has the disconnect.
Right. You want to remove everyone from soloQ. A lot of people don't care. He tunneled me I DC even if it's after last gen pops
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I see systematic tries to destroy any self-sufficient way to heal without another survivor. Stop it. Killers have already 61%.
I don't care that much when in SWF, because most of the times I can ask for help. In solo which is already so much harder with all the selfish players I need self-sufficient way to heal.
Also medkit with 2+ heals is definitelly better more often then not. CoH poses too many risks and takes too much time that can be input into gens instead.
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You should really start to play both sides at least a little. Current state is already balanced around SWF. That's why solo is in such a terrible state. I mean I get that strongest players that train together many hours and then go to normals have unfair advantage. But most SWF don't. Because most SWF can't even communicate where they are or understand why such an information is important/how to use it.
Punish these players the way you just proposed and expect even longer Q times.
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3237649#Comment_3237649
I in fact, think the gauranteed trade would not be okay. That being because I am not basing the mechanic solely on camping.
This interaction would feel pretty bad for killers who are ran to that survivor and now aren't able to defend the hook unless that survivor was already injured.
And yet flashlight clicky click was rightfully nerfed even if there was legitimate kind of use (adjust your timing or to make better 360).
Also if I play the next game now, I am pretty sure I will be (proxy) camped if downed. It's that common. I mean it's far from guaranteed, but it gives me better chance to guess it will happen then basing my guess the other way.
And if you are not camped, there is high chance you will at least get tunneled. Again. There are games where none of those 2 happen, but that in fact IS rare (like 1 out of 5 games killer does not camp or tunnel). That is a problem.
Also to make it cristal clear. Endgame camp/tunnel does not exist - there are no other objectives for killer. Proxy camp means you look for a chase by going around hook instead of around generators (so no - if I get unhooked to killer's face it's not killer but other survivor farming and if you happen to find someone when going away and chase him to the hook - that is also not camping).
Last time killer was hitting me on a hook because I did not allow him to camp freely and reassurence is "such an unfair perk" (in endgame chat). This is the current state of game.
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@bjorksnas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3235301#Comment_3235301
not always, id rather keep it how it is than give survivors the potential to just run at the hook and never be able to punish them if they wait too long to save by either securing a kill or making a very weak link than getting some spread out pressure that doesn't really help my bottom line
but you can punish it. You will just have to injure him before he gets to hook or accept hook trade. One way or another unhooker still goes down
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@StarLost said:
I still really, really like this game but I'm finding it harder and harder to log on right now - and if it wasn't for that bonkers Artist skin, I'd probably be taking a hiatus.
Why? Well, probably the major reasons are:
- Ragequits. I'm about the nicest killer you'll meet. I don't camp, I try not to tunnel and I generally at least give hatch or gate to the final survivor, unless they've been BM. I still see at least 1 person bailing very early in some form in maybe half my matches, completely sabotaging it. If it's not a DC, then it's a suicide on the first hook. If it's not a suicide, then it's someone going AFK in a locker. And that's with me usually bringing flans. This completely ruins the game for the other 4 players; the remaining 3 survivors have to play out an unwinnable game and I either have to ease up or just wipe them out. Zero fun for all involved. Honestly, this is my single biggest gripe with the game. We really need a Leaverbuster system or something, because the current DC penalties are pathetic.
- The grind. Yes, the changes helped somewhat, but some of my favorite playstyles rely on specific, game-style changing addons, like Vanity Mirror, many of which are ridiculously rare. Due to the prestige changes, these are even rarer than before, and I have to spend a horrible amount of BP to sustain it.
- Hide and Seek. Similar to #1, there's a trend of the last 2 survivors refusing to play the game out and instead stealthing around the map to artificially stall it out, I guess in the hopes that I get annoyed and leave. If it's done cleverly, they'll never get AFK crows and on bigger maps/killers without some sort of detection, it can be almost impossible to find them. Apparently this is 'taking the game hostage', but I've never even found anecdotal evidence of anyone being actioned for this nonsense.
Ugh.
4, facecamp into tunnel
3, has also survivor being hostage version where killer won't let other survivor bleed out and last survivor hides (leaving downed survivor be a hostage).
For me personally #2 is not a big deal, because I don't play no mirror meyers, but I can feel you
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3237613#Comment_3237613
6.1 added ten seconds to gens. TEN. SECONDS. People need to stop acting like they added five minutes.
Well it's 10 seconds PER GEN. Killers go crazy about proof thyself. It adds AT MOST 6 seconds and requires multiple people to be on a single gen (so if killer comes, someone will not get that window). 10s per gen IS A LOT
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3237021#Comment_3237021
There is even an addon that no one uses which makes you 115% after you hit a blink attack. With that you could still use powerful M1 triggered perks if you want to. You could even make use of STBFL.
True 😂 But I have to say - even if I liked to play nurse with meme addons. Out of her 3 memes this one I never played. It was too much xD
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3237617#Comment_3237617
If the killer chases the healthy survivor to the hook, then instead of the stand off all the healthy survivor does is begin the unhook and at that point it is a hook trade no matter what. (Unless the killer lets them unhook).
This is also the same in any scenario really. If the survivor is healthy, that hooked survivor gets off unless the killer can interrupt them (like witch slinger it doctor).
So the way I'm seeing it is, a healthy survivor will get the trade in many cases. And if my own suggestion isn't added in that unhooker can then be rescued by flashlight sabo whatever else.
Maybe I'm missing something, but that doesn't sound very country roads.
I think this would actually BE FAIR.
Note that if you are not facecamping the survivor (or are ranged killer that actually uses his range), you are able to injure the survivor before he gets to hook - this would mean such a survivor will NOT get the unhook and that's fair. On the other hand just standing next to hook will not give you huge advantage no matter what happens (well this still does not fix canibal, but so be it).
Flash save is always preventable (minus 2 lockers - which I agree should be deleted from game). Sabo play is almost always preventable (minus some corner plays on some maps - which I agree should get fixed. But ONLY those corners - hook density is otherwise mostly too much as is).
Giving chance at hook for survivors in every case is actually healthy for the game. It nerfs camping. Meaning if the killer is unable to chase survivor (and chases are generally (there can be unfair RNG/map for both sides) fair now after 6.1 - because killers did get chase buffs), then he should not get free win regardless. Or do you think staying at hook is something that should be rewarded with killer win?
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@Archol123 said:
I think even then there are some structures where nurse will struggle for example on 2/3 of the buldings on badham, but yeah she will eventually get you without much you can do.
But then again the same goes for other killers like Deathslinger at some distance he will hit you unless he messes up, if you get the right structures there is much more you can do against him then against a god nurse, I also agree on that.
And if we consider addonless Blight and addonless Nurse on some maps I would even say Blight has it easier, since Nurse mobility without addons really is not that much better than that of a normal 4,6 m/s killer, Blight will have the better cards in reaching the other survivors faster and I would say besides some godpallets that you have to kick he can still play around most tiles with pallets even after they are dropped.
And I completely disagree with the gen defense part, on larger maps when survivors split up and Nurse does not control some gens she will most definetely lose. Especially when it comes to tournaments those guys still go for a 3gen strat basically all the time as far as I know... Somebody even said that generally speaking tournament players will protect their 3 gen with 5 gens left... The Nurse still needs to play the macro game...
About the last segment... I understand that you want every killer to be viable, but then again when a killer like clown really does not take much to master him, why should he be able to keep up with the best survivors in the game? Most killers that are on the lower end just don't require that much mechanical skill to master them, besides the basic m1 killer knowledge, I don't think you can ever make it possible for a basic m1 killer to perform even similiar than those with good antiloop.
Considering that there are 1v1 tournaments where the player who loops the killer for the longest time just wins, I've seen one where a guy looped the hillbilly for like 8 minutes or something, and by all means that billy was not bad... It's just that the tiles and how to play them vs m1 killers have been figured out in a manner where there is really not much to can do to shorten the chase when the other guy knows what he is doing... And I'm honestly fine with easy to master killers having a limit to how good they can perform, I really would not want a legion for example to be as good as huntress or so...I want there to be a certain prize for people who put in the effort and the hours to master a complex killer... Probably half the killers in this game are quite easy to pick up and easy to master without much nuance to it... So let's for example say you take 50-100 hours to know everything there is to know about legion, which is to be honest rather high, I think you can know everything about the killer in 10-20 hours, because there is really not that much... But then compare it to Billy for example who will probably take you like 1000 hours at least to be able to curve most tiles and consitantly play around that. I think there should be a difference in how good they perform because of how much you needed to get good at him...
What I always like to say about that is basically a easy to play killer takes effort to perform good in a match whereas a more complex killer takes effort beforehand in learning him. (Just as a sidenote, I think billy is underperforming for how hard to play he is, but that again is a whole other topic...)
I don't think there is something like genrush, gens are just the objective and when the killer can't pressure the survivors into constantly unhooking and being in chase then 3 people will sit on gens, because what else are they supposed to do? Hyperfokus however especially with stakeout can give great value to even mediocre players... especially when combining it with a toolbox for more skillchecks...
I totally agree on the camping and tunneling stuff, it should be basically impossible to make this work in effective way... Maybe teleport hooked survivors when the killer is too close? Or make the hook timer slow down when the killer is less than 16 m away but then drastically... But that would be a whole different topic where we could come up with ideas....
Against god deathslinger you can't prevent injure. But after being injured, you can predrop in some loops and be safe enough to actually loop until he decides to destroy the pallet (and it's up to you to identify those - because insane deathslingers can hit you at loops that should have been safe). So no. Deathslinger is super hard to master (all the miniscule holes and possible hits), but he is still loopable and there are still things you can do (just not always, because a lot of loops are actually no loops at all for best slingers).
As for blight - there are no addons that make him impossible to do anything against. Even alchemist ring does not guarantee you anything if you can't get any hits.
For all killers topic - I don't necessarily want ALL killers to be viable. But I want higher selections of hard-to-master killers that can express their skill and yet always leave out something for survivors to do. Very good example is wesker. Against your average wesker shack is god-tier loop that might not be worth the chase. Against god-tier wesker, you can catch the survivor on it no matter what they do. But there are still loops you can use. No matter what kind of wesker it is, rocks with pallet will always provide you with ability to loop him for at least some time until the pallet gets broken. So there are things you can do. I don't really see this with god tier nurse. Maybe if you have (veeery long) flashlight there could be an argument even if it's super hard to actually burn nurse (or rather force fatigue) mid-chase.
About 1v1 tournament. I am pretty sure you talk about steve1v1. It's 1 person. The second best was several minutes worse. If it's exactly 1 player that can do that, then we should probably not count him in these discussions. For same reason I am not really mentioning supaalf.
About Billi - agreed. Considering how hard he is, he lacks the rewards. He at least had some funny exploits to him (being able to "fly" on a map and get ON the loops) which rewarded insane time needed to make him good, but this was also taken away from him. I agree that it is time to return some skill ceiling to him (but as a side note - he is still very viable against beginners. Because on low-level play, he is not really that hard to "master").
So to sum up - for survivors I want nerfed camp & tunnel + nerf nurse (maybe blight addons - leave wesker be as he is almost perfect - with maybe an exception to how easy it is to tunnel with him). For killers - create some generic stuff that is hard to use and can get you punished, but can reward you when you know how to use it. I really think that best killers can have it too hard against "military trained SWF" (except nurse). But this requires "military training" on survivor side. If it was possible for "military trained killers" to actually compete with these teams without reliance (on now nerfed loosing tactics) of camp & tunnel, but there was still things these survivors could do (just both sides would face hard risks in doing them), the game would be in much better state. The only unfortunate thing is, that I have no idea what such a killer buff would be.
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@Bran said:
First actually talking about the suggestion. As long as the hook on the rescuer is gauranteed, so no blind or sabo or the unhook destroy perk (the Jeff one) is usable, then it would be better than completely getting rid of it.
Onto the reason it shouldn't be a thing. That is if the killer isn't camping. Survivors shouldn't have a free unhook. If the survivor wants to go for the unhook as the killer chased them towards the hook that is their risk they are willing to take.
We are talking about possibility to unhook without being grabbed while healthy. It does not do anything with regards to unhooking person if he runs YOLO at hook. He will still go down (because unhooked person still does not have any time to take BT hit for unhooker) - so such a playstyle will still get punished (for new free hook).
The difference is, that the unhooker while still going down will no longer be unable to at least get the unhook. And killer would still be even able to tunnel if he decides to leave unhooker on the ground. This is important because campers exists so sometimes you just have to go for unhook even if killer is present (because he never left)
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3237574#Comment_3237574
This is not realistic? It's extremely common to lose 3 gens before the first kill. I don't know what video game you are playing. Against a really good team of survivors you can lose 3 gens before the first HOOK.
Maybe before 6.1. After 6.1 it is common to down a survivor before any gen finishes.
Maybe you haven't played the game recently, but 3 gens in 1st chase is outlier (still possible, but far from common thing). Same thing as having 1 kill before 1st completed gen is an outlier (but that can happen too)
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3236991#Comment_3236991
I camp person A.
Team does 3 gens.
Person A dies.
The Killer now has to find, chase, down, and hook a second Survivor when he is already 30+ seconds deep into the last 2 gens popping.
This is not a 3K scenario.
This assumes perfect knowledge of what is and will be happening (something even SWF does not have) and 0 travel time. This is just not realistic. And it was tried out that this is not realistic. Otzdarva prooved it in 6.1 (so before reassurence) where he took facecamping canibal (and with canibal you have indication that there will only be facecamping) several games. He was always able to camp to death 2 survivors before the gates were powered (so you can't loose at this point - it's already secured draw). And then there is NOED time for very probable 3rd kill.
Meaning you are forced to bring reassurence or face possibility of certain team loss. It's the same as you needing to bring BT (making it one of most used perks) before 6.1 otherwise you would probably farm your teammate into next hook within 10s of unhook.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3235511#Comment_3235511
One instance of the killer's totem is here - spotted mid chase or telling a friend to work on your gen that is 75% completed can save 40 seconds. Imagine if the killer got a buff because they were playing vs SWF that they could activate with the "T" key where a survivor loses a hook phase immdiately after being hooked.
SWF even not so great teams save lots of time and it breaks the game for killer. The counter is nurse/blight. Asking to nerf strong killers and not touch SWF is not fair.
Totem stuff makes no difference in vast majority of maps after certain skill level. Even (old not the very old) Ruin was not prefered in higher skill level, because it was usually gone at most after first minute (exception with lery's and maybe you can find one more map) - if you spawned on say ormond - then you had no hex perks and only 14s+travel time slowdown. So this is bad example on it's own.
About generators - well this one is better example. And with even better survivors this does not matter too. Because after several thousand of hours you as a survivor will start to track not only killer's position, but fellow survivors too. It helps you to know which generator to go fix next, where not to take the killer and also - where to go finish the gen if the killer moved to that region and there was fellow survivor there for say more then a minute. I mean - SWF is still a huge buff for this, because you don't need that huge level of game sense to (correctly) guess the situation. But you should also keep in mind that most of SWF's are bad enough to not relay these kind of information.
To sum up - even information-wise you can have better-informed solo team then SWF team. The difference is mainly in skill level. But I agree that for most of players SWF is considerable buff. That's why I repeated on this forum many times what other people said - buff solo with same information that SWF has (making SWF being able to relay those information superfluous - even if they SHOULD still get it) and balance killers accordingly. The idea is to buff solos as much as possible with buffs that are as useless as possible to SWF. Once the gap is closed (you don't even need to close it fully), you can adjust killers for a fair game. And sure - you can make all this in single patch.
My idea to close the gap (as I already said in different thread) - show in lobby and in game other survivor perks, add pings to distinct actions and add action indicator (of what is survivor doing at this moment). You don't need to add basekit stuff (like kindred) because good ping options could substitute it to SWF-like level.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3237090#Comment_3237090
I agree to some degree with that, but then again if both sides don't make mistakes who should win? We can get a draw in the match itself with 2 kills possibly, but there is no draw in the chase, which is as I pointed out before the main thing in this game, after 2000 hours I really don't care about winning or loosing, it is all about the chase interaction.
I would even go a step further and say the game wants the killer to win, that is why bloodlust exists, at some point the survivor is supposed to get hit and supposed to go down... I don't think you only win the chase when you didn't go down or run the killer for several gens, I think you win when the killer has to give up chasing you when he recognizes that he is throwing the whole game to get you and even then might not get you at all, and unless you're playing against somebody who has mastered the killer you definitely can delay the chase for so long that it is just not worth it to continue chasing you.
But at this point is it not basically the same with all the high tier killers? Blight and Spirit and so on? If somebody has really mastered the killer you will go down against those guys... And I think this is fair to be honest... I'm just gonna assume you're not a tournament player just like 99% of the players in this game we're average or above average or whatever, would it be fair if a team of average survivors was able to beat a killerplayer that has basically mastered the killer? Shouldn't all the effort be rewarded?
If we have a Nurse with 2000 hours of Nurse I think this guy should basically win almost every match to the point where he will probably play other killers as playing Nurse isn't really fun because the outcome is clear from the beginning. And even this guy will struggle against the 4 man comp swat, which again is fair, the killer has mastered Nurse and those guys have mastered everything there is to know about playing survivor. It will be a struggle on both sides, probably the most fair thing to match up players that are both "the best" in some sense.
To sum this up: Yes, Nurse is gonna get you eventually, but so is basically every killer, the game is build around the idea that the killer is supposed to get the survivors and bloodlust makes it fairly obvious that you're supposed to get the hit after some time. But as long as the Nurseplayer has not mastered Nurse, which most players have not, you are able to loop her. And I do not think it is fair to say that the average player should be able to consistently win against someone who has put that much effort into a killer that he has mastered playing the killer. And when we look against the best players playing in tournaments those guys can win for sure, Nurse is not guaranteed to win the match. And when we look at the recently released stats we can easily see that not every Nurse is good at her, many of them are just learning and will get destroyed by bad or even average survivors.
(Yes I agree those stats have been overused in some sense, but if it was really so that even bad Nurses would have an easy time stomping survivors her killrate would be higher, my guess is just some people underestimate the effort you have to put into nurse to get a decent result (yes I know she is not as hard as Billy or Blight to master, but for a beginner she is just frustrating, because you cannot just play like a normal m1 killer if you constantly mess up your power) and many people just don't go that far or don't play her often enough to the point where those guys will pull down her winrate... And even in the top 5% of mmr where all those starters are not supposed to be but all those streamers with thousands of hours that will push her killrate up, and still she is only at 61% in the top ten, so i would definitely still say: Most nurses can be looped because not many have mastered her.)
I am not talking about not going down ever. I am talking about being able to delay the chase. About being able to mind game. Nurse is the killer that after mastering her, you don't go 50/50 any more. Survivors no longer play into looping obstacles. They only choose where/how to go down - to maximize carry time and minimize interuption time for other survivors so that they can fix generator while other people just ARE going down.
I mean - you CAN loop even best blight while there are pallets on the map. Even with hug tech there ARE things you can do. There are 50/50's you can win. This does not really work against nurse. Or to be more precise - this works for nurse until she gets close enough - then you can't 50/50, because she will be able to get that hit every time.
And about the mistakes - I am talking about nurse not needing to do something clever. She just needs to not mechanically do the bad thing. What I mean is, that nurse just needs to find a survivor and down him. She does not need to care about anything else. No gen defense, no securing 3gen, no survivor tracking (with exception to finding them ASAP), no need to think if slugging is desired. You just go for survivor in front of you and if you make no mechanical mistakes you will win.
About mastery - well this is EXACTLY what I want. I want the game to be determined by mastery. Across all skill brackets. I mean killer is very easy to pick up in contrast to survivor so every beginner killer will slaughter beginner survivor 100% of the time (with exception to paradoxically nurse which HAS TO use the power and this killer will actually struggle). On the other hand if you have 4man tournament players - then killers like clown are basically unplayable, because he will loose 100% of games. This is not OK. But sure. Considering avarage to above avarage player base - at least this part (vast majority of all players) should get somehow balanced matches. But that ain't so, because camp&tunnel is still too strong and it's too difficult to counter it and yet so easy to do. On the other hand genrush needs mechanical perfection with hyperfocus to be OP strong - so it's again reserved only for best players that quite frankly were winning more then loosing anyway - making it additional game-breaking stuff.
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@Gwinty said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3236904#Comment_3236904
I do not know how my suggestions lead to this conclusion or how anything BHVR did made you think that.
They did plenty for survivors during the last updates. Boon: Cycle of Healing is "better Selfcare", Off the Record is a good anti-tunneling perk, baseline borrow time is great when you do not try to bodyblock with it (and even better when stacked with real BT), Reassurance is great to detere camping, various regression perks got nerfed...
Sure they did things for Killers as well, as they have to take care of both sides. But acting like they only care about Killers and want to grind survivors into the dust just ignores all positive changes for survivors they did.
CoH is very time consuming. I do use it now, but only because they nerfed SC. If I was able to trade deleting CoH for getting old version of SC, I would do that 100%. People don't realize all the risks involved (and there are MANY) with CoH and the fact that it is very unreliable. The only thing why killers don't like the perk is, that sometimes it can help teammates. Other times it's huge time sync + risk of moving on a map injured and sole reason why your team failed to survive.
OTR useless against real camping tunnelers because BT hit disables it. On the other hand DS is now useless - so we are in a worse situation then before.
BT basekit - yes. This one is one of real huge helps that we got. Same for reinsurance - which would not be so sorely needed if gen times didn't go to 90s (making camping hook much more rewarding).
Overall I see something done for survivor is always compensated with something horrible (OTR for DS, phramacy and calm spirit on it's own, reinsurence for 90s gens) and then some clear nerfs (0.5s DH with those inconsistent killer timing = hard usage, stun recovery (this one is my #1 nerf that hit me the most), quicker pallet breaks, shorter after hit run time (so dead zones are deadlier), repeating missing pallets on maps (e.g. temple of purgation stonehanges can now contain 0 pallets), new TERRIBLE loops being introduced (like trash window and trash pallets and several pillars is supposed to help me extend the chase? Any M1 killer can get me there within at most 10s).
And then we have map reworks. So we take strong survivor map and butcher it (headonfield and RPD) but we keep midwitch & shelter woods exactly as they were.
Sorry but the evidence is overwhelming. I am really curious when will the devs decide it's time to nerf survivor running speed because 39% (instead of 50%) is way too much.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
They could also rework it? Even after your proposed changes it sounds a bit weak and like it's more geared towards beginners, but then the question becomes is it a good perk for beginners to use or will it make it necessary as they go forward and they're essentially left only with 3 perks if using this perk becomes a bad habit?
It could use a secondary effect.
Idk. His suggestion could be enough. For medkits every great saves you 1 charge. If you take max-heals medkit and don't hit any greats, you are 4 charges away from 4 heals. With this new version of the perk you would semi-reliably get 4 heals out of best medkit + some extra gen speed.
I think these buffs would be enough. Especially considering hyperfocus does exist
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@BringShaggytoDBD said:
Are there any plans to do something about this? The darkness makes going against dredge one of the worst experiences in the game.
He's already got map pressure by teleporting to lockers, which also prevents survivors from hiding, and has the anti-loop ability. Does he need the darkness as well?
Instead of darkness, they could bring back the fog making it difficult to see objects without making you completely blind. Obviously fog would make it harder for the dredge to see survivors so it wouldn't apply to him.
Give it a few games. You will get used to it to the point you no longer realize the screen is so dark. TBH at my current state progressed deep wound make me see much less then dredge darkness. And I saw 0 complaints about deep wounds brightness (I am also not complaining)
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3237000#Comment_3237000
Then implement voice chat in DBD. That would be the simplest solution. Although not the best one.
Yes. And you know why. Bad audio quality (not everyone uses headset and you don't want echo from another survivor's game), hardcore slurs from squeeky young voices, language barriers and so on.
Showing surv builds to each other during game and in lobby, ping system and action indicators would already close the gap enough. There would still be difference between solo vs swf. But it would not be so large. Balancing for everyone would immediatelly become much easier.
Notice I did not mention base kindred. If you have ping system with I am being camped & rescue me (@person) & i go rescue, you don't really need any aura.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3237067#Comment_3237067
Yes indeed good sir ^^ And I do not get tired to have long discussions :D And I kind of also offered some changes to her, that at least adress the exposed perks on her ^^
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3237076#Comment_3237076
I mean at least she has something you can do about her unless she has been mastered, I don't think with 100 hrs you would be good enough to never get juked...
Sure you are right. I also think current nurse is perfect the way she is. Just not in pvp game. Good nurse takes away what you can do to win and makes it exclusively how much did she screw up against these survivors (survs can only make it somewhat harder for nurse). This is something cool in pve type of games. In pvp both sides should be able to play the game
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@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3236713#Comment_3236713
She's right, right now. 😀
Sure is. Maybe she needs some buffs as well? What about making her also 4.6 killer? /s
She is the most NOT fine killer in the game. I mean. She is ok for people that did not put at least 100hrs into learning her, but she is way too OP otherwise
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@Starrseed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3237021#Comment_3237021
I mean if she was as fast as hag or atleast as fast as a survivor but I really struggle to see that I may look it up later maybe I can find some videos to this matter
Believe me. I mained nurse for some time and (ab)used it when playing against her. Sometimes best mindgame you can do against her is going to her. But if she suspects, she will just not blink. Those situations are not super rare. M1 hits without M2 are very possible. Lunge is much quicker then movement speed
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3237011#Comment_3237011
I like sabo with toolbox although I don't run it often (I'm trying to get good with Flashbang for saves and it is quite fun anyway). It is risky in the sanse that most of the time you end up bodyblocking which means you lose a healthstate AND your sabo can be interrupted. I think being able to see hooks by default would be a nice buff as well as not go on cooldown if you down't complete the action.
And maybe your buff is also reasonable. I just think it would be a lot more reliable if some of those things were taken care of. I'd consider running it with flashbang for a sabo build, but as it stands now I prefer flashband with a fully blindness oriented build (Blast Mine and Residual Manifest for the aura reading denial and when gens are done changing to a flashlight). I'm still not good with it but it's fun none-the less (unless enemy has lightborn which makes all of that useless).
I'd run Sabo, Flashbang, Breakout and maybe an exhaustion perk if it got a little bit buffed. I mean now that I think about it I should really try this build although it does lack teammate aura reading which is useful imo.
Try DH for exhaustion. I don't like the perk normally, but for sabo plays it gives you chance for one more body blocks.
Also flashlight is almost always better (sure lightborn or franklin exists, but so does iron grasp/agitation) if you can get the correct timing.
Seeing hook always is QOL update that I can always live without. If you have enough time to pick from that many hooks, you have enough time to spot them without aura (hooks have some spawn rules). With regards to how dev team operates, I don't want this buff (because in the end it does almost nothing, but dev team would consider it huge buff). It's like you also don't take visionary/dejavu after some playtine.
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@Starrseed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3236679#Comment_3236679
But there is a big difference in working bad cause the terror radius is short or stuff like phead can't use certain perks when he uses the cage because he can choose not to use the cage and even huntress can have use from unnerving presence as a Legion main I can tell you noed has safed me a bunch of kills when I was new cause I just don't have to use my power and run them down but nurse can't use m1 perks without the blink cause she is slower then a survivor so she will never catch them so she can't use them and that is not OK and I think bhvr thinks the same cause making her blink attacks m2 would be so easy and they like the easy way
Oh that's not true at all. Nurse can m1 outside ability. Being in loop with nurse requires mindgames or you go down in 2-3s. So you sometimes end up vaulting into (not blinking) nurse.
Also this is much less common (I think this is low elo exclusive thing), but nurse still can get bloodlust. Meaning she eventually is quicker then survivors. 100% with active agitation. She is just to very high degree not good with hitting people without ability. But it's far from impossible
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
I also agree that it should not go on cooldown when it does not get completed.
I dunno about the duration of the hook being not on commission, but I like the buff about always being able to see hooks with Sabo on and not just when your teammate is being carried.
Definitely if 2 out of those 3 things got fixed I'd run it a lot more often tbh, as it is right now I feel like I get better value on other perks ans Sabo is too risky on solo.
Sabo is not just risky. If survivor does not die in corner or in gate, killer will be able to hook survivor even if you sabo hook perfectly (because hooks are so close to each other). If killer downs someone nect to hook, then don't even bother. You can sabo 1 hook and there will be 4-5 more he can carry the survivor to even if you take 2 hits.
I mean I play the perk almost always, because it's so much fun when it works. But this perk is hands down THE worst one in my build. One thing that I would really love to see if devs ever wanted to actually buff the perk. Make it sabo the hook in 2.5s. that's the time in perk description. In reality it takes 3s and this is huge.