some 3 gen are too op
i think there should be more counterplay or a rework on certain maplayouts with 3 gens. good example for broken 3 gens is Azeroth Resting Place but even a survivor sided map like gideon meat plant can provide a nasty 3 gen. if the killer just camps a good 3 gen the entire game there is literally nothing you can do to win. you can do the other 4 gens sure but after that its over. as long as the killer doesnt overcommit, hell always win. with gen degress perks like call of brine its even more busted.
maybe add a perk that gives you more genspeed in lategame to break 3 gen combos.
honestly i think prove thyself could do excatly that. feels a bit too strong in general.
could start at like 10% efficiency and every completed gen gives you another 10%. ( im not sure what the exact numbers should be, just putting an example ).
Comments
Gideon is not survivor sided. It's very much about killer/build. Get regular freddy or oni for easy win. Get nemesis or nurse for quick stomp. Get wraith or legion and it all depends on his addons/perks.
Outside of Azarov’s Resting Place, Suffocation Pit, Sanctum of Wrath, and RPD, I always blame survivors for letting a three gen happen. Those maps need to be reworked or deleted, though. They are the most unfun maps in the game for both sides.
i don't agree. every single map has a powerful 3 gen nearly. like 95% of them. the main maps that i think of that do not have a good 3 gen are like Ormond, Mother dwelling and Eyrie of crows. What a surprise? all these maps are majorly survivor sided. Not just in regard to gens, but loops themselves. These are also some of the main maps that killer complain about being "too big".
the reason why this was not a problem before was because killer had no way to consistently regress generators. Before sadako's update and 6.1.0 overcharge, there was no perk in the game that reliably regress generators for killer. All of them were conditional with a totem, a down condition or skill-check condition. Kicking gens was straight up unrewarding. gen-tapping was an effective counter-play to 3 gens.
Post-update, we have opposite problem. They fixed survivor gen-tapping, so now survivor have no counter-play towards 3 gens. There is no perk that survivor can bring that punish kick-tapping. survivors would need a perk that gives them progression every time a killer kicks a gen to counter overcharge+call of brine 3 gen camping with 30 minute games.. Some of them are winnable but its like serious waste of time.
ok but can you guys address the idea with prove thyself giving more efficiency on every completed gen ?
I feel like it fits the theme because you literally prove yourself by completing gens. it adresses the problem with 3 gens pretty well because you wouldnt gain much value early to mid game and in the endgame only if you work with another survivor.
I think 3 gens have to be addressed because it drags out games in an unfun way for both sides and gives the killer a win condition he often doesnt deserve if he has failed at getting downs. You could argue that its the survivors fault for not breaking a 3 gen as you have already stated above but i think this is not always the case if the killer decides to camp the 3 gens at any point in the game. its like a backup plan kinda like old hatch. and you cant always break a 3 gen right from the get go, thats why killers often cycle to the most middle gen first.
having this lategame genspeed would make it more healthy for the game. there would still be play around the 3 gen and you would have to sacrifice a perkslot to fight it.
Maps like Azarov's Resting Place and Suffocation Pit are just bad maps altogether.
Some of the 3 gens that can happen on Grim Pantry are pretty nasty too.
Improving prove thyself the way you envision would make it broken on any occasion that ISNT a 3 gen or in other words would make holding a 3 gen a necessity.
so currently prove thyself gives 15% for each survivor. if it starts at 5% and you would get 5% for each completed gen, that would be 25% for the last gen.
currently genspeed with prove thyself and 2 survivors working on it is roughly 185%
the last gen with that idea of prove thyself and 2 survivors working on it would be roughly 195%.
with that you would even out with the current speed of prove thyself on the 3rd gen and get 5% more on the 4th and 10% on the 5th.
could also start with 0% where you would even out on the 4th one and get 5% more on the last one
The math works differently here. 1, proof gives those 15% to everyone so that would correct it to 200% 2, it actually takes different base value (the lowered one from penalty by multiple people) so your final efficiency for 2 people is 195.5% with current proof.
Also I don't like your idea. Proof is a means to delete time penalty for cooping. Many people don't realize that cooping poses also inherent risk of multiple survivors being in 1 spot (and 2 survivors can't both e.g. fast vault single window). This is also the reason why I think proof is highly overrated and that it already does not work well if you don't have last 1 or 2 gens.
I'd honestly be fine with having a perk that makes you start with -30% repair speed and a 20% bonus for every generator completed (by anyone)
Kind of like an autodidact but for gens instead
Breaking a three-gen/Making one not happen in the first place is a survivor skill
That can be completely denied by killers. I have already had games where killer camped 3gen from beginning (from 5 gens) to end. Thanks to some strong 3gens and killer regression perks it's already possible. If you can't reliably hit OC (and yes some players can't), it's winner's tactics. Only if you are able to hit them reliably you chip away slowly at those gens to actually fully do them
yea youre right about the maths. but why dont you like the idea if you think that prove is overrated?
im sick of 3 gens and i think its too much work for the devs to rework maps with balanced gen layouts which is why i think this would be an easy solution.
you literally cant win in some situations. in fact i just had a game in lerys memorial where a myers just facecamped a claude near a 3 gen and won on the spot. if i experience this type of stuff it just makes me sick of this game.
Because you always can win. Even in 3gen situations it's possible - but I agree everyone needs to know what to do (which is kind of hard in soloQ). Also you should take care to not create 3gen in a first place. I mean - killer can camp his 3gen from the start of the game, but that also means he is giving you 3-4 gens for free - so you could potentially have enough time to teamwork into deleting his 3gen instead (this is currently still possible even if it's hard. I mean it will be possible until they make an additional buff to regression perks). The teamwork is about doing all 3 gens at once and once the killer comes, you immediately loop away from the 3gen to maximize the time for everyone else. This will take long, but survivors should slowly win if they can hit overcharge skill check.
About proof. As it happens there's a streamer that has almost identical opinion to mine. So I will post link instead:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5ZDB3v5h8UAlso there is 1 additional strong counter to 3gen you can use. If you are so afraid of 3gen, take toolbox with brand new part. But when loading into match, find an obscure place and leave that toolbox there (so no franklins can take it away from you and your teammates will not steal it). Once you identify 3gen, you can take this toolbox and break it rather quickly. Alternatively take dejavu and work on marked gens first
i disagree with you there. you cannot win certain 3 gen situations. if the killer uses degression perks and walks back and forth he gains more slowdown than you get gen progression. if you want at least some progression which is initself such a time wayst for both sitdes, you have to overcommit which will then allow the killer to down or hit you. and this even more of a problem in solo q because without comms you dont know what the killer is doing.
in the game i just had at some point i just surrendered and walked into the killer because ive had enough of this. its a prison of constant degress, just not fun gameplay.
As I stated. It's hard. Especially on soloQ. But again. If everyone knows what to do (and there are at minimum 3 survivors alive, but 4 is preferable), you don't need to be in SWF to play around it. You need people split up on all 3 generators. Once the killer comes, you run (or rather loop) away from 3gen letting other 2-3 survivors work on other generators. Killer has option to go for you and let 3gen progress, or turn around to go back to 3gen - which lets you in worse case heal and go to gen, in best case directly hop on a generator.
I played a lot of games. This works always (ofcourse if you are bad looper and go down within 10s, it will not work). There might be 1 little exception to this with wesker if all sprays run out, but there's a good chance you will break that 3gen before this happens.
ok wow thx for letting me know that i have to loop the killer. i didnt know that.
but jokes asside, you cannot win certain 3 gen situations especially with insta down killers. if the killer isnt stupid he doenst overcommit. and as long he doesnt overcommit he doesnt lose. as long as the survivors dont overcommit on gens, they dont get hit. so yea good luck escaping this never ending cycle without ever missing an overcharge skillcheck i would love to see you face a good killer so you can agree with me :)
Believe me. I do. I actually play SWF (and am learning from) 9K hour survivor main. But not all my games are with him in SWF team and I do win against this also in solo and against insta down killers. I mean of course you will not win them all and that's OK. But to say sometimes it's not possible is... Overstatement. So long as other survivors know what to do - if they are clueless, then I agree that there is nothing you can do - but that's matchmaking/player problem