Gandor
Gandor
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@Starrseed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3263210#Comment_3263210
Yeah that's right I'm all for limiting such perks same for gen perks on survivor. You never know what the enemy brings and that's part of the fun but both sites need to assume the other side brings a Gen focus build and if you don't have on yourself it's hard to come by so everyone runs a Gen build.
I mostly run one Gen regress perk but I'm a Legion and plague main so my killer sloes down the game by himself so I don't feel the need to bring those perks. When I started I played full Gen build cause I was not that great in chase and I admit it helped my mind to know the perks allowed me to sink more time into chase.
I am fine with 1 or 2 regressions and then maybe 1 another slowdown (eg. Corrupt, pain res, CoB + chase perk like bamboozle). But 4 regressions is pain to play against
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@Starrseed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3263202#Comment_3263202
Well the exhaustion Mechanik isn't quite working for killer cause the don't sprint
Change the name to something else. But don't allow multiple regressions stacked on each other. Regressions are very powerful same as exhaustion perks. Why limit it on survivor's side but keep it oppressive and unlimited on killer's side?
I have seen weak chaser win the game just by prolonging the game to the point that all pallets were brute forced and created dead zones. That's equivalent of survivor predropping every pallet and being able to win the game like this
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@Starrseed said:
It's finally time to make perk categories so you can't make full Gen defense builds or on the other side full Gen repair builds. If that happens perks can have a power level that where they are a good pick but you don't need to fear they are to good when paired.
"Exhaustion" for killers. Sounds reasonable.
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@Akumakaji said:
I am sorry for your bad team mates. Usually when I (playing mostly soloQ) encounter a 3 stacks Devour, the game grinds to a complete halt as everyone frantically searches for the totem.
Sometimes the killer gets their 4th stack and then it gets cleansed.
I guess you're either unlucky or your MMR took too big a hit.
This. Actually I have lost games where 3rd stack showed after all gens were completed and we kind of did not realize, that it's safe to ignore it now.
I don't remember something like OP said in a very long time
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3262956#Comment_3262956
Old Ruin is no longer in the game, hence the moniker. But do you think that 2min (or 1:30min) of unrestrained Blood Favor are too strong? Its not a bad perk, but most hex perks seem to either get cleansed within the first minute or survivor's somehow struggle to find them at all.
I guess if hex perks were more viable you would also see more survivors specialising in finding and cleansing them.
I think it would be much easier to find correct protection time if difference between best and worst hex wasn't so large. Also cc is almost bamboozle with hex status, so there is that in this specific case.
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Yeah. Pick me wraith. I have my flashlight ready...
This is not a good idea. Ban system would be much better, but that would also require balancing killers (trapper vs nurse are so far apart of each other), because otherwise everyone would just ban nurse and blight. Overall it's basically the same discussion as opting out of SWF for killer. Correct solution is to actually bring them closer instead.
But from what I read there could be one extra possibility that would not be so game breaking and not mess up MM that much - give option to disable repeated killer. Meaning if I played against say wesker, I can't get him again next match (but can get him again as 3rd match)
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@Akumakaji said:
I proposed a change some while ago that got a few thumbs up, but eventually didn't get traction.
Entities Blessing: when the trial starts no totems are lit up and all Hexes are sustained by the Entity for 2min. All totems are dull and can be interacted by survivors, ie booned, cleansed for toom challenges/Inner Healing/Overzealous etc.
After 2min The Entities blessing ceases and all hex perks are transfered to any remaining dull totems in the trial, with the leftmost hex perks taking precedence if there are too few left.
This would give killers 2min of guaranteed value of their Hexes and prevent them from being cleansed within 30s into the game, while letting survivors do all their usual totem stuff and if someone would want to cleanse all five they wouldn't be effected at all.
I think that this is the best for everyone. Obviously the 2min protection timer could be twiddled with (1:30 maybe?) but I think that's a good start. A new killer perk could increase the sustained timer for a minute or something. All in all I believe that this system would make Hexes more viable and therefore hex anti hex builds more interesting.
Altwrnative: we could rewrite all Hexes in the style of The Knights new hex perk, ie they only spawn onto he map even they first come into effect. Would need a bit of tweedling here and there, but could probably be done without any perk losing its identity.
I still like my solution better:P
It would work well on some hexes (like huntress lullaby), but not on others (blood favor would be very much not fun, old ruin would have been OP).
I agree that some hexes need buffs, because other non-hexes provide same-strength, or even stronger effect. The problem is, that they are in a same ship as boons - if you nerf boons, you do so also to dark theory, which is weird to say the least and buffing them empowers CoH. The same can be said about say dhope vs crowd control
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@Whoudini said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3262845#Comment_3262845
Hook grabs are not unwinnable (I cant remember the last time I got hook grabbed) and if a killer hits u then you automatically get the save, unless the survivor somehow waits or messes up hugely they should get the exchange (otherwise this would literally mean every killer is basically bubba when camping which is just objectively not true). Bubba is a problem for this and his power should not work at a hook or something since he is the one killer where if you decide to camp then provided he is not stupid, saving will not work.
Bubba is worst offender. But pinky clown, iri hatchet huntress, trickster in basement/open, arguably billy and ghostface and original pain pinhead.
That's quite a number of killers
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@Whoudini said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3261590#Comment_3261590
You can just go up to the hook and exchange keep swapping hook states, if you do this then the killer will lose.
We have heathy hook grabs. We have insta down killers. We have (and this one is the only fair interaction) proxy campers that hit you before you get to hook and then while you are unhooking before you can finish.
Also I presume you know about Otz's experiment against Hens's group with Bubba and facecamping (when survivors knew beforehand everything and knew what to expect). Considering all this and the result even these insane guys got...
Do you consider winning the game with very little effort if survivors don't bring reassurence fair? If so what about removing half of all hooks from game and saying you can bring agitation/iron grasp to compensate? I mean it's bandaid perk vs bandaid perk right? The example should illustrate the point well.
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3262720#Comment_3262720
Any experienced killer could say the same. Being one myself, despite my decline in the game, I would say that. It is also still good to get repeats when you can though.
Since getting spread or repeat hooks can either hurt or help in the long run depending how the game goes.
So we are in agreement then? Survivors will not try to abuse it, because it puts them unnecessarily into harms way, but if killer does that, he will get extra "punishment" (and by punishment I only mean harder camping - because you don't want to voluntarily play 3v1 if killer is actively hunting survivors)
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@Bran said:
Big problem. Nothing wrong with hooking the same survivor.
Also, this could be abusable by trying to get the same survivor hooked for the benefit. Some how.
Also just let's survivors get off easily with bad plays.
If someone is so stupid that he wants this value in exchange for 2 hook states (meaning drawing a huge target on his back with a note tunnel me once more so I am out of this game), then it's his fault for loosing it and sabotaging his team.
It's still a very bad move. Any survivor with a bit more experience will tell you that spreading hooks is always better then 1 or 2 people accumulating more hooks. And that's from team perspective. I myself am willing to go down without a chase if killer is running at someone with 2 hooks and I have none.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3262516#Comment_3262516
That's why I run Starstruck on all my killers lol
Sabos are a lot riskier when exposed XD
Starstruck makes it harder, but it does not really stop me (if you are not nurse). What does stop me is one of a, agitation b, iron grasp c, bad sabotage map (like saloon - successful sabotage there are about as rare as christmas in a year). Then again I run (brown or yellow) medkit, so sometimes I really do surprise killer with sabotage (saboteur perk)
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@RaSavage42 said:
Well... making changes to Hexes will cause people to call for changes to the other side
Just look at the comment above^^^
Naturally. Right now it's survivors (specifically soloQ to be precise. SWF are somewhat ok) that needs help.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3262290#Comment_3262290
Yes of course they respawn, but that hooking that I was working towards, the reward for my tough chase, you are ruining that for me, so you put yourself waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay up on my priority list. As I said, touch my hooks, get tunneled into oblivion. Easy as that :) Everyone has their priorities, these are mine.
As sabo are my top fun interaction in a game, I am not really happy 😂 but it is fair I guess 🙂
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@Shroompy said:
Now I think we can all agree that Hex Perks are probably the weakest theyve ever been. Some of them are just outclassed by other perks that arent even hexes, meaning they last the whole game. Why run The Third Seal when Mindbreaker exists? Why run Ruin when Pain Res or Jolt exists? Why run Retribution when other so many information perks exist? There are so many options out there that Hex Perks are simply becoming obsolete.
A solution to this that I thought up is by adding a 5th perk slot specifically for hex perks, and making them all end game perks similar to NOED. This way you're adding a proper secondary objective for Survivors (and if they dont, they suffer the consequences) and youre not potentially wasting one of your 4 valuable perk slots.
Well enough rambling from me, what do yall think about Hex Perks?
Will survivors also get 5th info perk then?
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@halluminium said:
Most people who camp don't do it because it makes sense in the moment. As long as camping is the easiest way to guarantee a kill, which after your change it would still be, people will camp. It doesn't require much effort and campers won't care if the timer takes 120 s, 240 s, hell, they'll camp even if the timer was infinite.
1k is universally considered killer's loosing a game. If he camps for 120s, most of the gens get done. Killer will get his 1 kill (maybe he would be denied even this one if other survivors go for save together) and will think twice about camping the next game.
As I said - there might be a few people that will still go for this 1k, because they can be mad at specific survivor, or want to spoil someone's fun. But majority of killers camp, because it gives them advantage. And there is clear difference if you get 1 bad game out of 20 or (as we have right now) 1 out of 2.
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@roundpitt said:
I played a match today against a demogorgon. At the start of the match, I saw him make a beeline to a structure and he stared at a corner for a few seconds.
After he left, I curiously checked it out. It was a hex totem. I cleansed it.
Some time later I notice that he keeps teleporting to the same area every time his power is available. I go to check it out and he has a portal directly on top of a hex totem. So I start cleansing it. When the totem was at 80% cleansed he started emerging from the portal next to me, but I finish cleaning in his face. He hits me and starts chase.
I was running windows of opportunity so I looped him for a good amount of time and palleted him a few times. But he inevitably downed me.
After he hooked me, he spent about 50 seconds basic attacking me while I was on the hook. A gen was completed and then someone saved me, but he downed her.
Instead of hooking her, he continued to chase me. He followed me until endurance ran out and downed me. He hooked me and then basic attacked me for another 50 seconds until someone unhooked me, then he waited out endurance again and hooked me. I died.
The totems ended up being Thrill of the Hunt and Devour Hope.
I felt like I outplayed him as much as I could, but because he was salty about having his hex totems destroyed, he decided he would single me out. The rest of my team escaped. But I got very little points and didn’t pip.
My feedback is that situations like this are not fun. He showed me where his totems were so I cleansed them. What do you expect me to do? Let you get 5 stacks of devour hope?
There needs to be more deterrences from camping and tunneling.
I would consider this a win and I would be proud of the outcome. Also killer lost the game directly because he decided to be salty - yet another win. If players need to loose when they become salty, it demotivates said behavior. Sad thing would be if that killer got 4k thanks to this.
What you described is very close to optimal outcome in my eyes (ideally team would save you, but come on - that is hard and rare)
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
Unless they bring the offering for spawning together.
Why is this so common? So many times we all spawn together and when the enemy has Lethal Pursuer and it's bound to be a slow early game. That's RNG that favors the killer who already has a perk to hasten the early game by finding people immediately. Why does the game have to make it easy enough that he finds all 4 or 3 together.
I run Distortion so I know when they have it and I try to leave as stealthily as possible, but many times teammates come in your direction with the killer behind them and you can't really make distance.
This happened against Nurse yesterday and we all died at 5 gens, the game just spawned us together and we could not make appropriate distance, which you can't really make against a Nurse anyway.
This is nurse problem. She really should be changed, but for some reason devs don't want that.
As for spawns - I think this is fair. Survivors do spawn mostly together - in exchange hexes can spawn directly in your LOS making it absolutely impossible to defend even if lethal is in game. For balance purposes both need to be fixed at the same time (reduced RNG) or it should stay the way it is now (current RNG being factor of wins).
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@Lastchild said:
If you don't care about winning or losing at the end of the game, then losing voluntarily shouldn't bother you :
The best way, at the end of the game, is to make noise near a hook and wait for the killer arrives, then you get hooked.
After being hostage for 15 mins straight, there is nothing I can do (but DC) to not be slugged any more
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@Tostapane said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3260989#Comment_3260989
Or maybe you are the one who play only survivor, who knows? I can play this game too ya know? i don't have interests to take one side or the other since i want a funny game overall for both sides (in the past i already stated that adding ten seconds to generators was a mistake and that survivors should have a 2nd objective to do, more interactive and funny than pressing m1 on a idle object...). Anyway i'll be brief because it seems that you REFUSE to see how much ######### up certain maps can be on a logical plan:
1 and even so, do you really think that she's not the strongest despite your precious stats says otherwise (by logic dc shouldn't indeed be considered for various factors: things like bugs, crashes and the entitlement of the people can boost wrongfully the killrate, not to mention that having to deal with less people will make a lot more easier the killer's job, so definetely dc aren't something that should be considered)? Please, i don't trust those stats at all for the simple fact that they won't tell you the truth about the real state of the game. I know that pig was in the previous stats, it was just an example about how much ridicolous those stats can be and why i don't rely about them in terms of balance. Game balanced around the top 5%? pfffff LMAO, A pity that this game is BALANCED around average survivors/killers, otherwise we wouldn't have seen unnecessary nerfs like the one did to deathslinger or hillbilly (just to name a couple of examples)
2 Wesker in the top... and nothing, this alone is hilarious and enforce what i said before
3 my statements were done based ALSO on my personal experience and using some logic/brain, thing that people doesn't seems to comprehend (also what you said is wrong since most people are playing to do the challenges in the tome rather than pursuing their "vanilla" goals, making those stats even more useless... again, no logic used to analize the situation)
4 those aren't nonsense statements (for example you have mentioned the 5% of the elite players previously didn't you? so for you those players doesn't know how to run tiles and loop correctly if you think that i just said nonsense stuff... you are contradicting yourself)
5% because official stats were for 5% and that in fact is a good skill group.
But I am done with you. Your "logic" is obviously more then objective data. If I was to insert "logic" from my perspective and disregard things that go my way, I would state the fact that killers now easily can 4k 10x in a row and are buffed beyond belief - because even these things happen. But I don't use personal experience and don't sell it as "logic" like you. I use official stats.
And no - if you knew something about statistics and pre-filtering of data, you would also know that if the game "crashes" way too often against nurse, then a, there might be bug in her that actually indeed crashes the game (but people would complain) b, she actually stomps people so consistently, that people rage quit against her significantly often.
And about Wesker - you clearly did not see good weskers. Like for really good wesker shack (this is example) does less then nothing and is practically trap - same way as you have 0 chance if it's nurse 4m away from you and she has charged blinks. But you are probably not one of those so you can't fathom why he would have such a good score at high MMR
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3261725#Comment_3261725
Sounds like me tbh, but I usually do this if the survivor is hiding and I'm trying to get the survivor alive to help me find where the other one is because they're just waiting for them to die (which I of course won't let happen unless they DC)
It's not to be toxic it's to literally help them escape through hatch and the survivor that is hiding does not deserve it if they are to just let their teammate die
Other times it's when I want them to finish gens and am just goofing around with the survivor getting more points in my categories
Yes but I want out of that game (and at this point cannot care less if I survive or not). Would you hold me if me after wiggling out go to hook and point at it? I hope you don't. Some do...
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3261660#Comment_3261660
Last 2 survivors in a game. Killer got one (the slugged one), other survivor hides. Killer wants to deny hatch. To not allow dying in 4 minutes, killer will pick you up. Hold you, let you wiggle out and down you again. As the other survivor is not doing gens, he can do this indefinitely. You have 0 chance to escape, because this game is designed in a way that killer will always eventually get you. Now you are effectively being held hostage by 1 survivor and 1 killer. And this can take WAY longer then 4 minutes
So you solve complain of being held hostage for 30 mins by going to be held indefinitelly? Smart
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@Malkhrim said:
What if? Then one of the tactics killers can use to get an advantage over actually good survivors will be gone, and since going for hooks is not viable against the strongest SWF teams, killers would have to be buffed in a way that made the 10-12 hooks playstile more viable in high MMR.
Oh, but wait. Know those solo survivor games where the killer destroys everyone even without camping? Well, those would happen even more often. Since the average solo teams aren't very good, they wouldn't need to get camped to get destroyed.
What if killer's buff was as hard to pull off correctly - same as survivor looping killer perfectly? That would mean only awesome killer would be able to do it and newer killers will no longer be able to actually destroy new players with easy camping
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@Cyber_Atlas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/354373/what-if-we-got-rid-of-camping
No. Improve chase quality making chases more rewarding and less frustrating. Pallets cannot be stronger than killer's powers, they should be an obstacle to get some time.
Camping and tunneling is mostly triggered by huge maps and frustrating gens experiences.
Example :
My gf needed to finish the RPD achievement.
She posted the offering.
I was tired to do this map (20th in a row), I advised to go 4 toolboxes so we were done with the challange.
We did 2 gens before the Killer (pig) could find us. We turned the killer into a tunneler by doing gens. And the killer still lost and let the person go out of frustration.
To address camping and tunneling we should improve the quality of chases. So that killers feel it is worth to drop the hook they are defending. Survivors experiencing frustration with being tunneled or camped can easily find relief by using perks made on purpose. Eventually avoid detection.
This will never work so long as camping and tunneling is easier and better for your end result. It's just a pipe dream. Also considering current situation and already huge win rate killers have - if we also buff killers that chases will become more rewarding then camping & tunneling is right now + we leave camping and tunneling without any change, then the game is dead. Nobody wants to play the game in which chance to win is 10% (if you are insanely good) or 0.01% (if you are not).
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@skylarka said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3261012#Comment_3261012
how can a killer stretch the 4 minute (total) slug timer before you die to 30 minutes? It is a max of 4 minutes, and that's if you have spent no time on the ground yet for the whole game. After 4 minutes of being slugged/on the ground, you die.
I play both survivor and killer and I think it's fine. I don't want the basekit unbreakable changes on the beta to ever make it to live game, personally. There is definitely potential to make some changes to speed games up, but the beta changes are way too far a swing in the opposite direction from where the game's been at for forever.
I think a concede option if you're slugged for a long time does make sense. Maybe after 1 minute in the dying state you can have the option to "give up" and it makes your bleed out timer finish, similar to how you can try to escape / ignore your skill checks on hook to effectively concede. I think that's a good balance between where we are currently and what they have on the beta test.
Last 2 survivors in a game. Killer got one (the slugged one), other survivor hides. Killer wants to deny hatch. To not allow dying in 4 minutes, killer will pick you up. Hold you, let you wiggle out and down you again. As the other survivor is not doing gens, he can do this indefinitely. You have 0 chance to escape, because this game is designed in a way that killer will always eventually get you. Now you are effectively being held hostage by 1 survivor and 1 killer. And this can take WAY longer then 4 minutes
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@TDtheDoc said:
Then make Gen times 120 seconds long and don’t have perks and items that cut them down to 45 seconds .
The idea is to reduce AFK times. Gens and camping are AFK times and 0 engage. If killers need compensation buff after this, then make it in chase things instead of longer generator times
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@Beolthar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3261603#Comment_3261603
Now you are completely ignoring what I've said in order to paint me as some spoiled brat. I've never said I want to have at least 3k almost every game. I never said I don't care about the other side. I never said they are not people to me. You are completely ignoring my real arguments and what I am wanting. At this point, I am considering your comments to be some kind of bait and will no longer respond to them after this post.
This sounds like you really just don't like killer players to be honest
I just showed that this can't be the case, because I myself play killer too.
I intend to improve and I still want an option to not play against SWF
Now we are in agreement. You want easy games - you call it being a spoiled brat. I would not use those words, but sure I agree (that was my whole point of 2, from my last reply).
I disagree with the Devs on SWF having comms being balanced.
And I pointed out bits of official stats that suggest (even if this one is not bullet proof), that best SWF have now about 50% win rate (as in 50% - what would you consider balance if not 50%?). You don't want to play against that one, because 50% win is not enough for you and want an option to have all games against soloQ to stomp "all the time".
An option to opt out of playing against SWFs would be fair since it would be up to the killer
What is fair about it? That killers now have about as much a chance to win as loose and they want to opt out of such a matches?
If SWF isn't unfairly strong, as you say, you have nothing to worry about because most killers won't use the option.
They are not. But some people want more wins then just 50% - so they will pick easier option. And solo most definitely IS easier option.
I already thought that I wrote my last message as direct response WITHOUT ignoring any things you said.
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@Beolthar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3260945#Comment_3260945
This sounds like you really just don't like killer players to be honest. You went off topic for most of this post. I have not changed my mind from your statements. I intend to improve and I still want an option to not play against SWF. I disagree with the Devs on SWF having comms being balanced. It would be unrealistic for the Devs to take SWF out of the game altogether and many survivor players only like to play with their friends, which is understandable. An option to opt out of playing against SWFs would be fair since it would be up to the killer. If SWF isn't unfairly strong, as you say, you have nothing to worry about because most killers won't use the option. If I improve enough, I may not use the option or stop using the option if it was available. But right now, I want the option and I would use it.
1, you are wrong. Today I played 2x nurse, Oni, cannibal, 2x spirit and 3 survivor games. It used to work the opposite way, but killer is now much more relaxing then survivor. Btw I lost only 1x nurse and 1x oni + 1x spirit was a draw (2 out) - where all 3 survivor games (btw it was as 3-4 man SWF this time) were losses (because I got in order lery's, midwitch and shelter woods after which I said enough). This is just to show I do play killers too. They are VERY EASY in comparison (and I don't even camp or tunnel).
2, killer is already unfairly strong against average survivor - this means they are VERY unfair against soloQ. What you say is "I want to have at least 3k almost every game and I don't care about the other side. They are not people to me and they can loose nonstop, because I only have fun when I win way more then I loose.". I am reasonably certain SWF don't even have more wins then loses - sure I don't have full stats for this, but from bits of information we have I would guess 4-man SWF winrate is somewhere around 50%. If this is unacceptable for you, then you are very entitled killer main.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
An extra 60s for survivors to sit on gens with no reason to save seems like a really good idea
It's still 3v1. So if killer applies no pressure, then so be it. If killer does not camp or tunnel, there is actually very good reason you want to save your teammate ASAP. That's efficiency.
Actually, there are 2. If 1 is on hook and nobody rescues, second one gets down - you are now really under pressure to unhook very very quickly - because killer is just 2 downs (and 1 long slug) away from total victory no matter how many hooks or gens are done.
@Viktor1853 said:
Camping is fine just do gens
Agreed. If hook stage is long, you are free to camp to your hearts content. Under current situation it's reassurence or killer win (or very late hook), because killer has enough time to fully camp 2 survivors to death before all the gens are done. THAT is not fine. That is huge problem. That is equivalent of permanent hook sabotages that used to be part of the game.
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Yes. No wonder camping and especially tunneling is so popular after 6.1. at least if camping was bad idea, it would be much harder to start tunneling.
I am convinced it would be actually healthy for the game. It would reduce unfun interactions and promote engaging ones instead
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@LapisInfernalis said:
I feel for you.
I had a 4k safe some time ago (all 4 slugged, no gate open) but I forgot that DS deactivates once all gens are done and therefore I slugged a recently unhooked person and hooked another one who was never hooked before. Guess what happened.
I didn't get a single kill in the end. And I was really mad because they were pretty toxic for no reason at all.
I am pretty sure you remember it so well because they were toxic. Sure I also play killers and also hate that stuff.
But it does not mean change game balance because people are toxic. Correct solution is to (temporary) ban toxic people (and I mean it generally - killers can be very toxic too)
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@hastarkis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3261264#Comment_3261264
Oh, got it. Then my last point still should be valid. I told more about structure and size.
And yeah, I know people dc for everything, still if it's 10th midwich with nurse starstruck I pretty can puke my frustration out and just insta DC to close the game and don't return untill next update. And I have DCd intentionally like two times only out of my 2k experience. I just can imagine how frustrating could it be, even for me. Of course, maybe, I won't DC, I just will close the game after 9th nurse without even trying to play 10th game. Result is kinda same.
You said yourself "If there are too many loops on a map you would also fix the map and remove loops and not decrease the survivors running speed", so if there's builds that strong rely on maps maybe we should change builds or maps and not decrease survivors' offerings value to band-aid the problem. Wouldn't it be better to be able to play SM Myers comfortably on most random maps and bring Halloween event offering instead of Lerys? Different playstyles still can be different even after you address the problem. Anyway, even if we have different points on how to fix this we have at least one thing in common: I like SM Myers too xD
I like all Myers, he's my main :) I want some love for him from bhvr :ccc at least graphic.
meyers can't be buffed until tombstone piece is updated. When they fix this (and OK this one is up for debate) and fix also the other (iri) tombstone, then meyers should be on very high priority list of killers that need buff.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3261276#Comment_3261276
Impossible skill check doctor is not a thing. It doesn't work. If lullaby isn't deleted within twenty seconds of the match starting then it's gone after it gets a single stack.
consider all of the things I said. If it's no longer hex, it will work. And do so brutally well in low MMR. Sure enough maybe it will not become go-to thing in higher MMR, but it would still be valuable stuff in mid mmr (forced missed skillcheck WOULD happen. Consider bonus regression and it's fine perk).
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@HuntresssMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/346579/huntress-lullaby
Thats why even as a huntress main i hardly ever use huntress lullaby. It needs a buff BADLY.
I would go as far that only people that don't have access to a lot of perks use huntress lullaby. The perk is just plain bad.
The comparison to colorphobia is a bit unfair though. The perks work in a very different way. Lullaby works everywhere, but is a hex perk. Colour does not need stacks. Completely different. The only thing that makes sense to talk about here is - why if they are both in about same strength does one require being hex and the other does not? I think lullaby could lift it's hex status and be very good perk on it's own.
However given that people create builds that complement each other, colourphobia + lullaby on doctor would be actually way too much. This would require an additional new condition - like lullaby works only on generators or something.
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@Waldbeere said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3261155#Comment_3261155
Oh sry, I thought it was clear. My fault 🙂. He added in my quote "(and not to win)". And that's not what I said.
I don't think it just helps to win. It's required for the build in the Meryer's example. It's nearly useless without a good map. That does not mean it's an auto win, but the opposite is maybe true. Getting another map is maybe an auto loose. And the chance to get another map is much higher, if currently your vote is against 2 votes. Getting another map as survivor while you have Balanced Landing is not such a huge thing. It's not that because 1 survivor couldn't use his Balance Landing they will loose the game. The impact in much smaller.
But again, the whole discussion and maybe the excitement is because of the edge case that both partys throw an offering. I already see in this discussion that winning is the most important thing. And the reason to throw a map offering is only to win. Maybe I'm too different 🙁.
it's about getting fair chance. Devs think that 60% kill rate is fair. For me it's borderline unacceptable. For this reason any additional killer buff is not acceptable. Getting consistently stomped is just no fun.
I would agree that for mirror meyer case he should be able to pick the map. Problem is condemn sadako on midwitch or the game. Problem is legion with anti-pallet build and addons. Problem is nurse or blight that picks mcmillan or autoheaven. Problem is full regression doctor picking saloon and camping his 3gen until survivors DC or sloooowly die... All against 1 meyers build.
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@Flopiyutiop said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3260985#Comment_3260985
Survivors gen time is not hypothetical. It's even kinda underestimated because it's the time it takes for only One survivors to do all gens which never happen. Yes, you have some moments in a game where nobody's doing gens, but there is also moment where 2-3 people are doing them and they occur way more often. Note that I'm always accounting for optimal play from each side in order to get a face value to discuss. In an optimal surv team, there is always someone doing gen because that would be absurd to do smt else. Hell, even healing is not mendatory if you can get a 30s+ chase with only One healthstate.
The killrate stat tells us very few intel on how the game is played. For exemple, I'm a very seasoned killer, if I play at night, I'll find almost exclusively solo players. Then, I can assure you that over ten game, more than half will see someone suiciding or giving up, because gens are so boring to do that, at the first sign they might be doing them for nothing, solos rather go next.
I'm not judging, I do that too when I know my teamates can't handle the pressure a good killer will put. Just run at him and play for the chases because that's the only fun part.
Then I get good teamates that do gens and dont rq and we win nurses by doing 30s chases where we all get hit back to back to back and still get 1-3 out.
So, please, maybe you're New, but don't try to patronize people by using stats that are irelevent to the discussion. It's not a us vs them topic. It's a balance One, where each side get some and lose some for the greater good.
you yourself make it us vs them. Providing theoretical time on one side and real time on the other side is exactly that.
You create calculations where it turns out survivors finish everything way before killer can even if he 1-hooks. What am I to think about that? When I clearly see that this is not the case for 80% of all the games I play? That your timings are just way off for 80% of all games? That it's not super rare for the game to end in 2 minutes, because that nurse caught 3 people and the 4th one is about to go down? And yet you write something about game ending in 14 minutes compared to 11 minutes for survivor. Sorry but this screams you play way more killer then survivor. And the echo chamber how "precise" and "undisputed" your timings are... The reason why killers got so many buffs, that there are always incentives on survivor side.
Also DC's don't count to stastistics. Yet the games go on. And even after this baked in, killers have higher kill rate then survivors. I hate this echo chamber that yes. Survivors are OP. SWF should be removed from game. All the maps are strictly survivor sided and camp & tunnel is fair and it's all survivor's fault anyway, because on average they complete all their objectives way before killers can do their. So sure enough. Continue with this not so subtle hinting. I am already looking for a new game as is. There are already a lot of survivors who left the game. Just continue and watch your queue times as they rise and rise without an end
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3260992#Comment_3260992
what do you suggest killers run to have a chance at winning through hooks?
Baboozle, corrupt, deadlock and i am all ears is fine build that just isn't meta, because specifically regression perks are that much stronger.
And there are many other fine perks that could substitute this regression meta
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@Waldbeere said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3261031#Comment_3261031
Hi thanks for the reponse, I assumed this reaction 🙂.
My suggestion is not for game balancing ☝️. That's a total different thing in my opinion. A mechanic like this must be independent from balancing, otherwise you could overhaul it after every balance patch. So lets assume the maps are balanced.
I play survivor 90% time. So it's not the view from a killer player. And the only exception for balance landing is Shelter Woods. I used Balance Landing a lot and you will find a usage everywhere. And you can sabotage on every map. Of course it's easier on maps where the killer can't see you. But you don't really won't compare a less effective sabotage with a complete build destroyed build 😲. A survivor's build is by far not so independent on a map. I think you can't compare a full build that's ruined vs 4 players where maybe are 2 perks have less usage.
Don't forget you play 4 vs 1. If your build is not perfect there are still 3 other people. For a killer the game can be nearly over at the beginning.
And final, how often does a killer really use a map offering? 🙂 It's already total rare and 90% time it's used for a specific build. There are so many groups outside there. At least a pair of 2 people. Even 2 people can throw the same offering and most of the time they will win. Additionally 4 players have 4 times more offerings then a killer. There is nothing balanced about this, if you compare this equal.
I think the direction of your comment is more that you are afraid that the killers kill tate will increase. But again, balancing is a total differnt thing. Assume the maps are balanced as are prerequisite 🙂.
It's not rare. I see it every 4th or 5th game. And I practically never see more then 1 survivor map offering so in your case killer will always win.
Also as stated above killer can abuse his build more then survivor, because survivors don't know killer. It makes 0 sense to take heal build against plague - but this is ok. If killer brings his build AND map offering AND see survivors brought their own AND decides to try his luck anyway. Why is this unfair to killer but fair to survivors?
As for balance - we will not get balanced maps any time soon. Making this change would be yet another hard blow to survivors, because it means that killer will have his map 90% of time or 100% if he dodges map offerings. That my friend is unfair. And you can't assume like this. It's not in devs habbit to compensate changes like this (sure there are exceptions like buff/nerf flashlight, but they are exceptions)
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3261058#Comment_3261058
If the survivor leads the killer to the hooked survivor and goes or a hook or a starts a stand off, that is on the survivor for doing so.
A bad play that gets punished.
and yet I see this MUCH MUCH MUCH less then killer just deciding to camp (and I mean - it's not rare occurance, but most of killers now camp or at least proxy camp - meaning they forego watching their gens, because they have someone on hook). And even if survivor leads the killer to hook. That is still 1 down without any chase. So still a win for killer
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@Bran said:
It's not the right step because that just let's survivors get even more safe unhooks even when they are not safe. Would just force a trade when the survivor is committing a bad play, camping aside. Unhooking should be punishable.
it still is. 1st punishment if you unhook wrongly, you will end on hook yourself 2nd punishment if you are caught going to hook, you will not even unhook.
Bad plays will be punished even after the change. But as of right now, bad play (being afk in front of the hook) is rewarded with 1 extra hook without loosing camped person. That's actually not fair and promotes bad play.
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3260710#Comment_3260710
Eh, I'm not much of a no way out kinda guy or whatever, but I know I haven't said the 3 perk thing before.
Pretty sure I haven't at least. Doesn't seem like me.
I might misremember the name. Sorry if that's the case.
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This would mean killers will get their map practically always. The only possibility this would not be true is 4man SWF (and as devs stated 4-mans are rare compared to solo or 2-mans or even 3-mans).
Also killers already have 61% kill rate. Why do you want to buff stronger role?
Also perks - not true. As a survivor there is just 1 possibility when you pick midwitch - and that is if you want to try out sabotages. For every other build the map is terrible. If you want to take balanced landing, you never ever want to take mc millan as there is 1 map that has 0 BL spots (not counting shack stairs which have 0 usage) and only coal tower & iron works decent main for BL (compared to say the game or RPD). There are multiple instances like this.
As an addition - maps are quite unbalanced. As killers are able to already win 61% in high MMR considering survivors can pick garden or crows maps, what do you think would happen when killers are almost guaranteed to get midwitch or lerys or any other map they create their build for? (e.g. getting the game against some killers/builds is total pain with very little chance to win).
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@JawsIsTheNextKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3260979#Comment_3260979
I'd love to see a breakdown of the 59% win rate. I want to see where the 3 and 4-person SWFs are. Are they the ones that are getting the bulk of the 41% of the wins? I mean if the MMR works properly then it would make sense that they would because as far as we know the game does not alter the algorithm to take any SWF advantage into account.
I'm a little suspicious of the 13%ish advantage for 4-person SWFs over 4 solos. From a personal perspective admittedly, I get a much higher escape rate even in a 2-person SWF (although that might just suggest I am being carried!)
Unfortunatelly I can't find those stats. They are not most recent too. But I remmeber it was around that number (still it's my merory - it could have been 17% even if I don't think so. But I am 100% sure it's not 20% or above). And yes. Devs stated in those same stats that solo survivors are "about half" of all players and 4man SWF is the least possible lobby you can get as a killer (said in another way everyone solo is most often part of game. Duos being second most common then 3-man and 4-man is the rarest).
Also the reason you are suspicious about 4-man SWF is, that they are demonized a lot. People watch hens and his squad and imagine that is standard SWF play. When in actuality - you said you do play with friends so you know what kind of information you do provide and the info you don't provide. I would assume you don't even take chases to the part of map where your teammate is not present (I might be wrong, but chances are I am right). And as these 4-mans are demonized that much, people tend to say it's 100% SWF every time someone makes an efficient or altruistic play. That's far from truth also from solo's perspective.
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@CBT137 said:
if you can’t sit still for 4 minutes you may have a problem, slugging is only a problem if it is done to bm
it can be 30 minutes if killer decides. Not just 4
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@MrMori said:
Slowdown perks are frustrating to play against when stacked, and I think a few perks are a little overtuned right now.
- Pain Resonance: Reduced from 15% to 12%. No longer interrupts/causes screaming, so DMS combo no longer works. Wouldn't affect higher level lobbies, but that combo is a complete noobstomper and feels awful to play against.
- Merciless Storm: Now activates for a set 10 seconds instead of "until the generator is completed". This solves its interaction with Pain Resonance, which is why the scream on Pain Res came back after being removed in the first place.
- Eruption: Incapacitated reduced to 10 seconds. It's just miserable for solos to deal with, and 10 seconds is still valuable.
- Overcharge: Grows from 100% to 200% over 40 seconds, instead of 75% to 200% over 30 seconds. Just a tweak because I think reducing your base regression on kicks is a little backwards.
- Deadlock: Reduced to 25 seconds. 20 would be too low, but 30 feels too high, there's a reason most high level builds include Deadlock right now, and that's because it's very strong when coupled with the longer gen times.
On the survivor side, I would remove/rework Brand New Parts and make Hyperfocus not work with Toolboxes, and maybe look into even bigger changes to the strongest toolboxes such as Commodious Toolbox with Speed and Charge addons.
Thoughts?
My thoughts are that gen regression meta is overdue to be nerfed. It's unhealthy that killers can realistically prolong the game to 30 minutes. That getting out of 3gen is now absurdly hard and basically impossible in soloQ that does not immediately know what to do.
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@Tostapane said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3260464#Comment_3260464
1st of all stats aren't a proof, just a data to put into the equation (for those data then nurse should be BUFFED and pig NERFED if you wanna look at it for example, this alone is quite hilarious imo). 2nd those stats were done without a real reference point (levels of mmr) but they were related about the ENTIRE playerbase (meaning that this will consider matches with people too much busy to hide in bushes and doing nothing (or just trolling/throwing the match for a challenge in the tomes) rather than doing generators or looping the killer (there are A LOT of those people btw). 3rd stats are too much flawed to be considered a valid data regarding the game balance overall (example i can do a 0/4 with 8 hooks but based on those kind of data this is a complete failure, or the opposite, where i can do a 4/4 with just 1 hook in the end thanks to blood warden, or the survivors are self suiciding on the hook on purpose cause they don't want to go aganist a specific killer). Those are the reasons why i don't consider those kind of information reliable. In the meantime my example despite wasn't stated by the devs, it shows how much broken certain maps can be if you are smart enough to chain loops (in that case midwitch), to put that knowledge on practice could be hard in the beginning, but once you have an idea about how to loop (and based on the killer that you are facing of course), keeping busy the killer become much more easier, and this is a undeniable fact.
1, Nurse is by stats ALREADY strong. Just not strongest. I suspect that's because of DC's against her (and dev stating that they don't count games where DC happens). Check recent stats. She is by no means weakest.
Also pig is not the strongest one. So again you are wrong. Check those stats. Specifically those best 5% stats, because community agrees you should not balance around average.
2, so you are talking about old stats. Check new ones. I am talking about those that have wesker as #1 in both pick AND kill rate.
3, So stats about kill rate are way too unreliable even if most people are trying to kill/survive as their base objective, but your statements are 100% accurate and by no means anecdotal or biased. I see.
4, again you provide bullet proof arguments in "it shows" and "when you know" and other nonsense. Maybe you could just admit that you are totally wrong biased killer main that wants to have every game as easy as it gets? Or try to play both sides to see how much "survivor sided" some maps actually are. You will fix your perspective VERY quickly this way.
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@Flopiyutiop said:
- The base kits for Killer and Survivor are lackluster and don't account for optimal play.
- The disparity between the weakest and strongest loadouts.
A bit long, I'll put some TLDR along the way.
Raw time for survivor objective completion : 5 x 90s = 450s = 7.5 minutes of collective gen time (less than 2 minutes for each individual survivors) + 20s door (x2 optional). Match total duration is about 8 minutes if a single surv is doing gens at a time.
Raw time for Killer objective completion : 4-12 chases. Outside Nurse or Blight minimal chase time all things consider probably range from 30s to 2 min, i.e. a mean of 1.25 min or 75s. If you take the shortcut and do 4 chases all game, you'll need to camp at least 2 people, meaning it takes you 2 minutes each. You'll then need to do 2 more chases. So, 75 + 120 (first kill at 3.5 min) + 75 + 120 + 75 + 75 = 540s = 9 min of total match duration.
If you rather go for 12 hooks, there is also a great disparity between hooking back to back or spreading hooks. If we assume the same average chase time and add 15s to find a new target, we get : 15 + 75 + 15 + 75 + 15 + 75 = 270s, i.e. first kill at 4.5 min if you tunnel. If you don't, you need to do 9 chases to get first kill : (75 x 9) + (15*9) = 810s or 13.5 min to get a kill if you don't tunnel.
These matches length can stretch from 11 to 18 minutes.s.
The only option for the killer to win, if he doesn't camp, is to stretch survivor's objective by stalling them and regressing gens. Base kit regression = 2.5% or 2.25s + 1/4/s. If you kick a 99% gen in between each chase and for whatever reason the game last long enough for you to do 12 and nobody goes back on the gens you kicked you got : (990/4 + 900/4 + 810/4 + 720/4 + 630/4 + 540/4 + 450/4 + 360/4) cap at 90s + 270/4 + 180/4 + 90/4 + (2.25*11) = 855s or 14 min.
TLDR : minimal base kit survivor objective time is about 8 minutes. Killers range from 9 min by full on camping to 18 minutes by playing a 12 hooks game. By playing the gen regression game and getting full value, Killer will kill his first surv when the other 3 get out if 2 surv were doing gens.
A killer that wants to win in a vanilla DbD game wants to camp, if it fails, he wants to tunnel. He never wants to touch a gen. A survivor team want to avoid being camp or tunnel and have at least 2 people on gens at all time, so the Killer can't win a hooking game.
Now, if we add perks and items into the mix.
Best perks for survivors, increase durability in chase or gen speed. Best gen build : Commodious TB with charges and BnP, Stake out, Hyperfocus, BtL or PtS. The box alone shave almost half a gen. The perks can do the same, meaning the build halves the gen time for a solo survivor.
Time do to gens if everybody use the build with only one survivor doing a gen at a time : 4 min.
Then add DH to get 15-60s more chase time 1-3 time a game.
Best perks for Killer increase the time it takes for a survivor to escape the trial. Best regression build : Eruption, Pain res, CoB. If you proc each perk one time per chase, you get (9 x 11) + (13.5 x 11) = 247.5s or 4 minutes of gen time or 2 gens. Add to that best Brine value, up to (990/2 + 900/2 + 810/2 + 720/2 + 630/2 + 540/2 + 450/2 + 360/2 + 270/2 + 180/2) cap at 90s + 90/2 + (2.25*11) = 970s or 16 min.
Best blocking build : Deadlock + NWO = 30 x 4 + 60 = 180s or 3 minutes.
The best Killer stalling builds at max value barely nullify the best survivor gen speed build at min value.
TLDR : Best loadouts for each side completely change the path of the game, doubling or halving the time it takes for survivors to escape.
Now imagine in an open MMR like we have where someone with minimal loadout can face someone stacked out that will double your objective or halve it... It just gate keep players from using non-optimal stuff and play style. And every time you nerf a gameplay aspect from each side to mitigate this disparity, you just incentivize players to use stronger and stronger loadouts to keep the game flow coherent from game to game.
Imagine if in a game like League, some players would start the game with a full on completed item and the opponent is just playing with starter golds. It's basically 75% of games in DbD.
You need to bridge the gap between optimal objective time from each side and reduce the impact of the loadouts.
Killers should use auras perks, chase perks, stealth perks and surv should use deception perks, exhaustion perks and team perks, to create interesting and unpredictable situations in chase.
- Get rid of perks, add ons and items that impact objective speed for both sides.
- Adjust the survivor objective to be faster than the killer when they do good in chase, same if both are average and longer if the killer is winning fast chases by giving base regression on hooks, ex : Give pain res on every hook, give 10% pop on kicks for 60s after hooking, gen auto regress when someone is on hook and nobody is working on it, injured surv repair slower ...
- Get rid of camping by any means, there is like 1 million ideas to do so that would be very simple to implement, ex : make hooks work like PH cages, prevent using killers power around hooked surv, prevent grabing on hooks, get rid of hooks and put a respawn system ...
- Get rid of oppressive killer add-ons or give them drawbacks. Give add-ons and items that complement gameplay aspects or create new interactions between players.
- Normalize Nurse by increasing her cooldowns and base speed.
- Normalize killer's CDs with utility, how can Blight have 3 seconds CDs per rush with almost full on control when Whesker get 1 every 6 seconds with almost no control ? How can PH get 12 m range with almost no steering when DS, Artist or Huntress can 360 no scope MLG ? It's ok to have different power strength, but they should be coherent, like x distance gain by power need x CDs. Or you'll keep power creeping every time you reinterpret an old concept.
TLDR : Shift the objective control mechanics from perks to base gameplay. Give more agenda in chases for each side. Get rid of problematic add ons. Normalize killer powers to have a coherent CD/utility ratio.
WDYT ?
But your math does not check out. On killer's side you calculate some mean/average. On survivors you calculate some hypothetical raw value. Hypothetical raw value on killer's side should be approximately 7s/hook state (2x hit CD and 1x hook animation). If you say this is not real, then I have to agree. It's also not real to presume single survivor would be able to work on all gens all the time without any movement time. Even if you count "raw values".
If you start to count real values the same way as you do to killer, you would need to add stuff like going for unhooks, healing, running killer, doing totems (especially if they have some hex perks like devour hope) and counter all the regressions. Meaning your math is absolutely absurd - you calculate theoretically unobtainable on survivor's side and realistic on killer's side. Of course it looks like survivors are OP in this comparisons. And yet we have 61% kill rate. This alone should tell you how wrong you are at your calculations.
I know your topic is about balancing full loadout against no loadout, but you create an example that shows "bad science" - and people will take this example and point to it in their next arguments. For future reference you should not do that. It's not healthy. If you want to provide raw unattainable values, provide them on both sides (so survivors finish gens in 90s each making the game total in 112.5s+20s for gate - killer gets 12th hook in 84s) or provide some reasonable estimate for both sides (even people that are not chased can be disturbed, take into account unhooking time, travel time, finding generators time or doing different objectives, countering possible slowdown from killer powers, ...)
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@JawsIsTheNextKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/354165/bhvr-when-can-i-stop-playing-against-swfs
You say you are an average killer, then I would expect you to lose when playing against a 3 or 4 person SWF.
Assuming you are matched with solo survivors that are the same MMR as you, you should probably average 2 kills per game. The problem is that if they are SWF then they will be at your level and then given the extra advantage of comms as matchmaking is based on the average MMR.
Even if you improve somewhat, so will the level of your opponents so you will be no better off.
I think the best solution is to for the devs to tweak matchmaking based on the number of members of the team. Four 1600 MMR survivors in a SWF probably shouldn't be matched against a 1600 MMR killer..
That works on a premise, that killer has 50% killrate against solo players. IF that was true, I would agree. But the fact is, that killers have 59% on average kill rate against EVERYONE - SWF included. Also there were stats that max difference between solo and 4-man SWF in some special bracket (so this is not average and can't really be compared) was somewhere around I think 13% (this might be unprecise, I can't find it) and is usually much smaller. All in all even in this maximal case against average it would still be 46% kill rate - when realistically the number will be even smaller.
50% means game is balanced and more about your skill. You as a killer mostly win. It's 61% kill rate in high MMR (so yes 2% more then average). This basically means, that game is MUCH more balanced when it's SWF against killer then when it's solo against killer. So if we really talk about disabling SWF, we should also substantially nerf all killers
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@BlightedDolphin said:
Rank has no effect on matchmaking so rank reset is not the reason for people tunnelling.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3259330#Comment_3259330
Locker saves are a lot easier to balance than tunnelling is. There is no reason to delay a very easy fix just because there are bigger problems.
I agree with you completely that tunnelling and camping suck and should go, but it’s a tough thing to balance. They’ve already tried with base kit BT and Reassurance but they don’t work because someone who wants to camp or tunnel is going to do so no matter what.
I think what they need to do is buff solo queue to be on par with SWF and then buff killers in a way that encourages them NOT to camp or tunnel. They’ll still exist, because you can’t get rid of it, but this way it will be the much less effective strategy and hopefully it’s reduced.
Some killers will tunnel no matter what. I don't care about those rare breeds. They are rare. Vast majority of killers camp and tunnel, because it's easy and it's rewarding. How hard is it to stand in front of survivor and wait for him to die? Or how hard is it to start chase with said survivor if anyone is able to get him out?
But I can speak about rewards - camping means you will probably win the game, because if survivors don't have reassurance, there is no way to do gens fast enough that only that single person will die. Another thing is, that it is WAY much harder to unhook survivor then to camp - so in low elo where there is no experience how to counter this - it's is 100% win. You need to let that person hang, you need to then come in time. There needs to be at least 2 people. It must not be bubba or some other S-tier camper (pinky clown, iri hatchet huntress, trickster in the open - like basement, ....). If you go alone, there's good chance that killer will grab you which is full win for killer (no unhook and another survivor on hook). So if the team does not know, there is nothing that can loose you game. However if the team knows what to do, you will still get quite some advantage (but you can't only camp to win).
For tunneling - getting quickly 1 person out of game is effectively slowing the whole team by 50% (not 33% as people mistakenly tend to think). Meaning after it's 3v1 there is 1 in chase, 1 recovering and 1 on gen. With 4 players it's 1 in chase, 1 recovering and 2 on gens. (to recovering I count time to go for unhook, unhooking and then unhooked survivor healing himself).
Both of these are braindead easy and probably very rewarding. Most of killers will utilize it so long as these things are true. It's very easy to see, because we have already saw it. For a few days after patch 6.1 every killer was winning basically ALL the games. And yet camping and tunneling was at it's highest. Having other agency to do without camping & tunneling did NOTHING to prevent killers from camping. The opposite was true. Meaning any additional buffs to killers will help against these tactics will DO NOTHING.
Also - fixing locker saves is also not that easy problem. Devs just took a shortcut. There were legitimate locker saves that had counter play. Like someone going into locker and another survivor being behind a nearby bush - it was fully possible to get that hiding survivor instead. This is same situation as normal pick up flashlight save. But devs decided locker saves are rare enough that disabling all locker saves is fine. Yet another thing for detriment to survivors - but at least this time survivors got a compensation buff in extending flash save time window (sure enough PTB version was bugged and I am pretty sure it will be fixed so some timing will be required).
But I agree that solo should be buffed so that gap between solo vs swf is much smaller. Also killers can get compensated when this happens AND when camping and tunneling is made risky (by adding more defenses against it instead of taking away existing) OR harder to do (no idea how to make camping harder) OR not so rewarding (no idea how to do this for both camp & tunnel)
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1, this game is inherently unfair. Killers got buffed so, that low mmr soloQ survivor can loose 5x in a row and there is nothing interesting or special about it.
2, maps play a huge role - if you get nurse on the game, you will have very easy time. If you get Oni, good luck. If you get shelter woods with most of killers, enjoy almost free 4k. Get garden and you have tough time
3, nurse and blight are so inherently unfair, that even well coordinated SWF that train together have very hard time playing against them
4, there are things like tombstone piece in a game - killer stalks someone, then leaves them and find you. Once you get to M1 distance to him, you are suddenly morried even if it's 1st hit you got and you are in a first minute of game. And there are many more things like this
5, devs themselves said SWF with comms are ok. They even made balance changes around this. As a result average killer wins 59% of (mini) matches -he kills each survivor with 59% chance. This goes up to 61% for best 5% players. You already have advantage against SWF. Learn to play against it