Gandor
Gandor
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The map is strong on survivor side. But I can't say it's impossible (at least for me) to win there as killer or to loose as survivor.
Considering cowshed is same realm as rotten fields, I think they are fair exchange. So sure - if we want to have everything more balanced (I am not opposed to it), then take a few loops from cowshed and move them to rotten field somewhere to mid area so that map center will not be a dead zone.
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@PongWick said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3265184#Comment_3265184
So, change the BNP to Rare and change effect to Increase 16 Charges. And make new Ultra Rare Add-On "Brand New Tools" has effect "Increase progression when Great Skill Check to 5%, Increase Skill Check chance 15%, Increase Skill Check zone 10%". How about it.
What?!? No! BNP's are already broken strong
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what would be the benefit? Having shorter distance from killer AND wasting part of your sprint burst? why?
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Ok I can't find it. When I do, I will try to return to this post
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@Lastchild said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3265365#Comment_3265365
It's an "asymmetrical" game
so powers should work assymetrically? one time it works too unfairly against killer and 2nd time unfairly against survivor?
What I meaned by inconsistent is, that sometimes I don't have him on screen or I have in on an edge so I don't really see him & yet I reveal him. Other times he takes up 80% of my screen and I look directly at him & yet I can't reveal him. That is not cool. (But I don't care that much, because the game has much bigger problems then this)
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@AverageAshEnjoyer said:
play him yourself and then tell me revealing him is too hard.
it's not about how hard it is. I agree it's easy. The problem is, that the game is so damn inconsistent.
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It already exists. Look up and down. It mimics a little what you do when you lounge. Works against dead hard pretty well (for reactionary users). However nowadays people use it proactively more then reactively (because lags and 0,5s duration)
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@Entitled_survivor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3265176#Comment_3265176
yeah if u're gonna give up a second slot for self care it's fine,,but the amount of times i see my team mates self caring vs sloppy for a year makes me wanna alt F4
agreed
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@Entitled_survivor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3265162#Comment_3265162
Even with deadlock you got plenty of time to finish the remaining gens with a bit of decent looping from the next survivor to go get chased,,A killer that is afk in front of a hook is free gens ,it is that simple ,,And what is that video linked supposed to prove ? ( If that first hooked person hadn't killed themselves on hook all gens would have been done before they died btw )
That you are wrong and that for minimal effort you can get very high reward with just camping. You can't finish all the gens before you camp out of the game 2 survivors (if someone does not bring and is able to apply reassurence) + you can get 3rd one via NOED.
The video (and the previous one that he mentions in it) is from quite well known high mmr streamer/fog wisperer/killer main. So just "push gens" does not really work considering how much time is required to do so and how short hook stages are.
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@LiveBritishReaction said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3265207#Comment_3265207
Oh boy, now we’re arguing use rates. How to truly tell when someone doesn’t actually have an argument.
The correlation between stats and actual strength are not nearly a be-all-end-all level of substantial. Twins is the single least played killer in the entire game by a huge degree but that doesn’t change the fact that they are very, very strong. That’s just one example; if you want, I can go find more.
If anything, I think the fact that Windows of Opportunity—a perk literally designed to be a pair of training wheels—is one of the most used perks according to your stat machine speaks volumes about how a playerbase as uninventive and imperceptive as DBD’s would fail to make value out of strong builds that require even basic smarts.
If something is obviously powerful, then it would be used. Instead we see the exact opposite. Especially in higher MMR's there's more focus on chase or genrush or tunnel/camp protection then on heal. That should also indicate something ;)
Another thing - WoO is not used by beginners only. It's used also by very skilled solo players. The intend for usage is just different. The idea is to know which part of map is already exhausted by some other player. So it's bad example from your side, because you outright dismissed usage if this perk for people that are NOT new to the game.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3265111#Comment_3265111
No killer power makes the killer move at 400% ms. Besides that you said that items are survivors versions of killer powers with no other context I'm just going off what you said.
It's sounds like you don't understand how building pressure on killer works. See if you injure a survivor w/o a med kit for them to get healed someone has to get off a gen to heal said survivor that brings survivor efficiency down to 50% on gens(assuming your not in chase) or that survivor has to risk not healing a been a one shot which is a huge difference in time sink then a killer hitting a healthy survivor and then having to chase them down and do the looping thing. With a med kit a survivor can heal themselves making it 75% survivor efficiency on gens then you can take that and the whole team can have med kits meaning survivors never have to have someone get off gens to get the heal. You can also make it to were the survivors can repeatedly heal themselves in under 16 seconds meaning you don't even know if the survivor will take 16 seconds to heal themselves or 6. A survivor been able to heal themselves is a huge advantage because it allows you to deny the killer the ability to build pressure by injuring survivors its part of the reason tunneling has increased if an injured survivor can heal themselves in 16 seconds and not bring anyone else off gens to build pressure why not just take out the injured survivor forcing the survivors off Gens for the rescue? Limiting the killers options to build pressure is never a good thing and normally only leads to killers playing in ways survivors don't like to continue to build pressure.
Recently I play quite a lot of twins. I know what medkits do. I also know, that they have limited number of usage. And I also know, that creating deadzones exists (especially on maps like the game that has nothing but pallets). If you chase well enough, you can exhaust medkits. Or you can commit to the chase. Or you can take franklins (I don't do that). Or you can take slowdown perks which gives you more time to exhaust all survivor's stuff.
Sure enough medkits are strong survivor's tool. So is killer's speed (he is always quicker then survivor). Should we change it because it gives you the edge? I don't think so. I don't want the match to be dull simulator. You can play single player games if you want that. Both sides should have access to tools that help them win the game
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@Little_Kitten said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3265174#Comment_3265174
I may have misspoken about these statistics, I am not criticizing them at all; I would be hard pressed to do so, as we are not even sure of some of the details 🤗
It would be interesting to have an official response from BHVR (or a link to said response, which may have already been given somewhere) on the following:
- Are DCs counted as "kills"? Or are they just not counted in the killrate of the killers?
- when a player DCs in a game, is that game counted in the killrate of the killer it is?
I myself am not 100% sure. They did not write anything. It was only in one of their streams that they talked about it (and it wasn't even the most recent one) - so sure enough, I could have misunderstood. But know what? I will look for that stream and will post the link with correct timeline - so you can judge for yourself :)
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@LiveBritishReaction said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3265180#Comment_3265180
Almost all of those scenarios you described are either simply too uncommon to render this build weak or even begin to counter it, or are simply a matter of grave, GRAVE user error.
Antiheal builds are borderline useless when your healing speeds are this fast and should only be a problem if you’re trying that dumb strat of healing mid-chase. Franklin’s is Franklin’s so it sucks, you have 90 seconds to go pick up your item and even if it is completely drained you can just rebuild it with BtL. If you are spending that much time booning totems or running around looking for boon spots that it truly detracts from you doing gens then you are simply very bad with boons and really need to work on your game sense. Plague is fair but this build is monstrous against the other 29 or so killers in the game bar Legion because he’s Legion so I hardly think 2 killers out of like 30 is a strong argument. Your exhaustion perk argument is patently false because we’ve already been over how this build only requires at the very most 2 perks to be extremely good. If the killer is focusing you so incredibly hard that you don’t get to heal then as we’ve been over you can bring Sprint Burst or any other exhaustion perk with no real cost to your build so you should be looping them and wasting their time just fine.
Your proposed scenarios are incredibly situational at best and/or are your fault for lacking the game sense of when and where to use your medkit.
Yeah. Nobody plays what you say, but my scenarios are incredibly situational and/or fault for lacking the game sense.
That might explain why Adrenaline, DH, resilience, WoO is most used perk combo instead of what you say is incredibly powerful. Actually according to nightlight - your proposed combo is basically not even used a lot because BTL is generally used in only 2.69% (this perk alone - and I don't even count that it's probably used for flashlights way more often then medkit - but I don't have numbers to back that statement so sure maybe 2% of usage is on medkits)
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The problem with this perk is it's low reward (compared to it's competition - other exhaustion perks). On paper it already has longer sprint then other exhaustions. The illogical thing devs did is, that it's applied at the start of stun instead after the pallet throwing animation ends (so you are locked in it for whole second where there is 0% chance to actually run). Making it look like the perk is better for sprinting then other exhaustions when in fact it's the same (but it has worst possible initiation condition from all the other perks).
A super easy solution to this one is to actually make it longer sprint duration or alternatively add additional stun duration.
The alternative someone mentioned in previous thread is to add secondary effect to the perk by extending the range of pallet stunning area (making it easier to actually stun the killer with it). This sounds like a fun interaction so I like this one best.
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3265162#Comment_3265162
Outside of a Perk, I would not like Survivor Aura's being shown to the Killer without any time investment involved. Do something like highlighting the Generator with the most progress or having generator Auras show their progress for a duration after a Hook.
And yes, Bubba is the Killer I always have in mind when considering Hook Health. I am not saying that your solution couldn't work, rather that it would require more effort than needed (EG: needing a compensation buff), while leaving some remnants of janky gameplay (Unhook lethality when Killer is face-first into the Survivors' crotch and Instadown/AttackSpeed concerns).
We are talking about problem that has been here literally for years with many repeated complaints all the time. It needs to be finally solved.
If people will agree to the solution even if it's complicated one - but it would indeed solve it, then the game would instantly become much better.
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This is beyond crazy.
"Hey I like how brand new parts speed up my gens and it's fun, but I want to balance it - make BNP have skillchecks until generator is finished (each still giving me 5% progression), also the addon should not be destroyed upon usage. And to make it more fair, let it recharge itself after usage. What do you think about my balancing proposition?"
As I already said. Beyond crazy.
Also legion is already in a pretty good spot. If we are talking about pure buffs, let's talk more about trapper or freddy or maybe (non-condemn) sadako or (not insta kill) meyers.
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@LiveBritishReaction said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3265166#Comment_3265166
6 full self heals at double speed is something you should absolutely have to dedicate an entire build for. Being able to do that and still having 2 entire perk slots for more meta perks like Sprint Burst, Unbreakable, Circle of Healing (which makes this build even stronger), Stake Out + Hyperfocus, etc. is, frankly, disgustingly strong. Hell, you could always just replace Botany with Circle to get the same +50% effect without the efficiency penalty to get even MORE self-heals on top of all the team-wide bonuses that come with Circle of Healing
Or maybe not. Because in the end that would mean I would spend the whole game enabling my healing instead of doing gens.
Finiding totem. Booning it. Hoping to not get interupted or it getting snuffed. Hoping there's no franklin and killer that camps it. Healing against sloppy and again hoping to not get interupted. Going for locker. Waiting 12s for locker. Moving thru whole map to boon area or finding yet another totem. Going down real fast because I have no exhaustion, because I spend everything on healing perks. Killer being plague so I screwed myself up royally. Killer being doctor with antiheal build so I show my aura to killer all the time and not get more then 1-2 heals from the medkit anyway. Killer never leaving me in chase so my medkit is used 0 times in trial....
The point is - you don't see people bringing best medkit with best addons and 2 healing perks very often (I would say almost never). There are very good reasons for that.
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@Entitled_survivor said:
Plz yes i wanna dodge every single self care /left behind /urban evasion gamer, they are always useless
SC can be actually good if you are willing to pair it up with botany. Left behind and urban (and sole survivor) on the other hand really indicate bad teammate
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@Little_Kitten said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3265139#Comment_3265139
Oh, okay, I didn't know that detail! So, we can say that the killrate of the killers is completely representative of the reality of the games :-)
it's the best that we have. And it does not rely on someone's feeling or personal experience.
Meaning I could take trapper without any addons on say crow's map and get easy 4K if survivors don't pay attention to any traps and fall for them like crazy - from this personal experience I could say trapper is very OP and in fact needs huge nerf to traps especially (make them glow or something). Or maybe I played that game against people that just started the game and it's unfair comparison. How do I get something that's more fair? Right - by looking at large number of games. Which in the end are killer stats provided by game.
Sure enough such raw data probably needs some context/interpretation, but that thing needs to be backed up by said data. So for example if we see that nurse IS much stronger than the data suggest, then maybe we need to look why that could be the case. And one explanation is, that games that would be in her favor are actually filtered out (not counted) - because they would fall into DC category. So maybe that is the actual case. There might be some different reason, but nobody gave any alternate plausible explanation. So I am going with DC's actually screw up nurse's kill rate.
The point being - you are fully allowed to criticize reasons/interpretation of the statistics. But not the stats itself. That is just wrong and shows the bias you have (I don't like those stats so they have to be wrong).
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@LiveBritishReaction said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3264895#Comment_3264895
Built to Last. Very common perk to run with medkits. Even with just a brown duration addon, BtL gives you enough charges out of a green medkit for almost 4 full self heals with Botany Knowledge’s efficiency penalty and almost 5 without it. If you go overkill and bring double duration addons, BtL gives you enough medkit duration for just over 8 full self heals, or just under 7 with Botany’s penalty. Even if you want to talk about the delay of rebuilding the item in the locker, being able to heal yourself in 8 seconds 6 times in a single match with just two perks is absurd.
Oh so if you dedicate 1 item 2 addons and 2 perks you get strong effect! I am shocked by that! WOW. Maybe we should nerf hubris/enduring/sprit fury, because together they create a strong effect too...
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3265133#Comment_3265133
If you're not going for Hook while the other Survivor is in chase, you're not Unhooking efficiently.
What an increased Hook timer does is increase the potential for hide-and-seek team strats (while a Survivor is Hooked) instead of drawing the Killer into a chase.
More time on Hook means I have less incentive for the Killer to chase me, so I hide, and the Killer has even longer time-between-downs, overall preserving the teams health/hook resources longer, and shifts the meta into less interaction over the same amount of time.
And yet I gave a suggestion that would be DIRECT counter to hiding - by showing survivor for a short time. It was in my compensation buff just now.
https://youtu.be/cO1U7TGWJmg@Entitled_survivor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3265144#Comment_3265144
Face camping brings very good results only vs bad survivors who don't do gens period,, yes its boring for everyone but it's the easiest way to throw a game as killer unless ure camping someone in a 3 gen,, also do you realize that if hook stages take so much longer it's free time to do gens without having to go unhook or are you completely clueless?
From killer main's perspective. Looks like it's not just bad survivors after all
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@Entitled_survivor said:
This has to be the most "I'm a survivor main and i demand game to hold my hand" thing i have ever read on these forums
So removing unfair stuff for killer is totally understandable. But doing the same stuff for survivor is hand holding? What about returning perma sabotaged hooks? Otherwise why should we hand-hold killers?
Camping - especially face camping is the most complained stuff that is still part of the game. For minimal effort you get very good results. And instead of solving it, we recently got buff to this strat in patch 6.1. Why should no-brain go-to tactics that get you kills for no effort and 0 engagement win you games? What's good about such a thing? How hard is it to go to hook and sabo/camp it?
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@Little_Kitten said:
There is also something that occurred to me about the nurse's killrate, which is, from memory, around 53%.
Some people make the argument, "The nurse is fine because her killrate is correct."
So far, I understand the argument.
To which others respond, "No, the killrate is biased because it doesn't take into account the players' DCs against the nurse."
An argument I also completely understand.
Indeed, it is reasonable to think that the players who DC as soon as they hear the first blink of the nurse are players who would not have been able to/will not play against her anyway.
We can therefore reasonably classify them as "potential kills for the nurse".
In other words, these DCs, which are not counted in the nurse's killrate, are in fact uncounted "kills", which should therefore increase her killrate.
So far, I agree.
But this is where it gets a little tricky.
Everyone will agree that when these players DC because "I don't like the nurse", they do it in early game.
DC in early game is like completely distorting the game, leaving 4 or 5 generators to repair for 3 survivors, against the strongest killer in the game. No need to draw you a picture, 3K (or 2K if trap).
Therefore, EVERY time a player DCs against the nurse, he actually distorts the nurse's killrate himself because if he had stayed, maybe she would have done the same number of kills (3), but maybe less, in any case, never more.
Some people might then reply to me, "Yes, but the number of DCs is anecdotal, so the number of falsified games is too."
Okay, but then there's a dilemma.
Either there are a LOT of DCs against the nurse in the early game, and thus, a LOT of games artificially giving her extra kills, and thus an upwardly biased killrate.
mber of DCs is NOT enough to offer enough "fake wins" to bias her killrate upwards, BUT in this case, it means that the number of DCs is basically anecdotal AND, if this is the case, the argument : "The nurse's killrate is not compliant because it doesn't take into account DCs that should be kills" is no longer valid, because the killrate would only be very slightly increased
It would be interesting if BHVR could indicate what the nurse's killrate is, if they were counting DCs as deaths, as well as the proportion of DCs that exist in games against the nurse.
AFAIK games in which someone DC's are not counted. So if 1 survivor DC's, then it's not 1K that is not counted in for nurse. It's "4K" that are not part of statistics.
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Both playing (recently) as and (often) against ghostface. Yes the reveal mechanics is just so stupid. Sometimes I reveal him without even knowing he's there when looking at the exact opposite direction he is in. Other times I look directly into his soul and nothing happens. So inconsistent
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@Tostapane said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3262101#Comment_3262101
i should have expected it... you are one of those white knights who blindly defend stats without question if those stats were TRUE IN THE 1ST PLACE (and even if those were truthful, you REFUSE to see the main causes that lead to those data) and when out of arguments just says "i'm finished to talk with you"... stats aren't reliable, period. You can think otherwise if you want, but it won't change what i said... You don't have any valid argument to substain your thoughts, at this point it's pointless keep arguing with ya since you know that i'm right.
No you are wrong and have 0 things to support it. You just say you are right because you want it to be true. That's it. Your wishes are not facts. Sorry to break it to you
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@AssortedSorting said:
There should be some urgency and tension if a Survivor is on Hook.
Making it too long reduces the urgency to go for the Hook, as Survivors do not need to get to the Hook before they complete objectives.
However, making it too short means the best play is to Facecamp, as Survivors need to get to the Hook before they are able to complete objectives.
Facecamping works because Killers are able to completely deny Survivors from getting an unhook (Power/lloadout dependent) while standing next to it, and because Hook Stages for a single Survivor take less time to chew through than it does for the remaining three Survivors to complete their Objectives.
You're suggesting increasing the Hook timer, which impacts the urgency and tension of unhooking a Survivor, but also doesn't touch on the ceiling of Facecamping lethality.
I'd suggest looking for another lever to tweak, such as the lethality Killers have while standing in front of Hook doing nothing.
Unhooking includes Healthy Grabs, so a Killer can just stand behind the Survivor doing nothing, and still get a pickup.
Unhooking also includes interruptible Unhooks, so a Killer with enough damage output can prevent any Unhook from happening in the first place. (This can be achieved simply from a Killers Power Design, or Perk loadout)
Addressing the above would help address problematic Power design regarding Unhooking as well as making Facecamping less lucrative (as Unhooking will generally be more about Trades rather than getting a grab or a down).
While I generally agree, there's still a thing about leaving teammate on a hook for artificially prolonged time - it's bad for efficiency reasons.
If killer does NOT camp, you are willingly playing 3v1. If killer downs another survivor, you are getting very close to a territory where killer can outright win the game by very little slugging - meaning it no longer is just problem of efficiency. It's real urgency.
But the main point is, that longer hook timer will totally destroy camping (and by proxy tunneling) strats. Killer will no longer be able to just camp it out or stay very close to hook and let survivors come to him. So sure this is (desired) nerf to killers. This can be also compensation-buffed. I liked the idea to give non-chase (it cancels if chase starts) sprint burst after unhooking to help killer get to the map quicker + maybe really show that one survivor who is most distant from a killer for a very short time just to give some target to killer outside of hook.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3263760#Comment_3263760
You'd see the problem comparing survivor items been equivalent to killer power. Your saying survivor's items is like them having a killer power which would put them on the same footing as the killer in a 4v1. Having something that allows one of the 4 to be equal with the one is way off balance. Killer's have powers because they have to compete with 4 survivor's there Powe helps level the playing field and your saying that items are equal to killer powers which would throw the balance off completely if just one person bring it and you have the capability for all 4 to bring it and that's exactly why it throws the game out of balance.
Are you trying to say that having an item that can heal me 3x is the same as having the ability to dash at more then 4x the survivor speed, going thru the walls and use that 2x AND THEN IT RECHARGES? Same strength? Really? Ok. Give me 1x half a nurse blink that recharges then please - it's 1/4 of killer so it should not be a problem to have item that gives me permanently just this. Or maybe in fact survivor items are MUCH worse then killer powers.
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In current situation - if you get dodged lobby 4-5 times. How much longer will you wait? 30s? Maybe a whole minute? SoloQ feels really bad right now and the ability to actually show I have perks like deliverence (so don't go for my rescue) or I have Kinship (someone come to 16m distance and then go back to generator). I think the benefit outweighs the negative with current state of game. And there are even better things - I take saboteur so someone please take leader to speed up the interaction.
At least allow me to ping/show my perks when I am in game if it's such a problem in lobby.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3262942#Comment_3262942
Original pain only causes deep wound tho? It's not instadown
yes. But anyone going for a rescue will actually farm said survivor. You wait for unhook, you hit unhooked with this addon (to get rid of BT/OTR/DH) and you immediately down him. Now your only enemy can be flashsave (so you take lightborn) and you have guarantee to kill that survivor. You allowed unhook, but not really
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3264779#Comment_3264779
About the wiggling... You can have your opinion on that but I still strongly disagree... Wiggling has nothing to do with skill... It's just random movement combined with whacky hitboxes of survivors... Truly skillfull is different stuff...
wiggling is definitely a skill in dbd for survivor. there's survivor that just go left, right, left, right at exact same distance every time. those survivors are pretty easy to hit. proper wiggling is mix-up's. Its more like left-small right-left-large right-left-left. you wiggle in non-obvious pattern. Wiggling is pure mindgame. Its also assertion of risk vs reward in term of distance. sometimes you have to take risks to move forward for 0.5-1 second in straight line at 4.0 m/s. often the most obvious wrong moves in normal looping are correct moves in wiggling. its all about being unpredictable. Its pretty hard to describe. I would argue it's one of top-survivor skills that is difference between top-level survivor and mediocre survivor. good movement goes a long way to winning games as survivor especially against the projectile-type killers.
I mean if you played trickster or huntress against top-level survivors, there's staggering difference between hitting trickster's knives vs tricky movement and people that just run in straight lines with obvious wiggle patterns. Its same for huntress as well. nobody really plays against twins. If you played Twin's PTB, In PTB of twins, Victor used to move like at 1.0 m/s or something when charging his pounce. He was so slow to the point that you could loop a generator and Victor would not be able to hit you. that is how it became obvious for what his weakness was. He got buffed from PTB. Victor is definitely unique killer to loop. Its hard to compare him to anything. you could compare him to demo shred but its not quite demo shred. demo shred feels something like laser-type hitbox. Victor hitbox from what I remember is something like oval. it is harder to hit victor the further away you are from him but its near guaranteed hit if he is pointblank assuming twin's player is competent at aiming victor's pounce.
Smells more like luck interaction then "skill" one. I don't want to have main looping/dodging ability to be mainly based on a luck. That feels bad both as a survivor and as a killer. I would rather have situations when I am favored and situations where survivors are favored. My task as a killer is creating favorable situations for me and as a survivor wise versa. I feel twins do this already pretty well. So again - all I want for thins is for them to be generally quicker to play - but not really stronger
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3264433#Comment_3264433
Nobody is saying they're not strong. Of course they're strong. The problem is that everything they do is slow and clunky. Switching from Charlotte to victor takes ages. Survivors can just run away with your power. You cannot make Victor respawn at will. All the inconveniences add up to an unpleasant experience.
This. Twins don't need buff. They are already strong. They are just so slow, that it always takes ages to do anything (and I don't mean you are slow to catch survivors).
Twins literally only need true QOL changes. Stuff that make them more fluent to play. Reduce the wait time. Remove inability to swap right after the hit (you need to move victor a little for 0 reasons). The way how she can't use her power after hooking, because she is so damn close to that hook - I mean I have 0 intentions to camp, I just want to use my power. Allow me to swap to victor and let Charlotte walk away from the hook on her own. And I would actually be ok if I got some compensation nerfs for these things. Just let me play them instead of waiting for everything.
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@Starrseed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3264294#Comment_3264294
While your way can certainly work I would be hesitant to go that rout cause yes fixing facecamping is thr right thing and should be done sooner then later but we might don't want to hit the normal playing killer while we do so and I don't see how we can buff them in compensation because the pressure you can get from a strategic camp can't be compensate so easily I think
like hook grabs will touch facecamping killers WAAAAY more then normal legitimate strategic campers. I mean I see the issue when you just run to the hook after being let to it. But this is disproportionally less important (because you will still get a hook out of it), then spoiled game from a camper that never ever left the hook after hooking at 5 gens.
And as for a compensation - someone suggested "sprint burst" for killer right after hooking until he is not in chase or X seconds pass -> to help get to the map quicker. I think this is reasonable stuff and again - only non-camping killers will benefit + survivors that go for insta unhook can be punished the same as before.
This is just one example how to make camping much less rewarding even if it touches legitimate case - but killers would get valid compensation for it.
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I like OP's suggestion and would be very happy if 1, and 2, got implemented (3, is a bonus that I don't really need).
If these things were not very acceptable, then I would go for alternative solution - make nurse 105% killer when not using power, but make her effective speed when using ability at most 120% killer. Meaning prolong these actions: ability charging speed, blink speed, after blink speed, fatigue time and token recharge time (including that token recharging starts after fatigue finishes) - that overall average time will at most be 120% (or 4.8m/s). When you think about it, 120% speed is already pretty fast - even more so, because she can ignore elevation and all the other things, that block any other killer - so she would still be quicker then most killers.
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@Starrseed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3264259#Comment_3264259
I get it camping is a plague and we fight against it for far to long now. I will assure you most killer are against straight up facecamping as well. And I understand that people are at a point where they don't care what happens as long as something happens. Many threats in this forum just overshoot it and buba is often the prime example that gets used because he is so good at it.
We need a good working solution that hinder the effectiveness of camping to win without lowering the value of a strategic camp. Killer get angry at this matter to because often it's just stuff like take away there power take away there attack outright just teleport either the killer or the survivor and most of that stuff comes down to don't defend your hook at all cause that's bad.
Sadly I haven't seen a really good solution to this day that would a) work good but b) not be to strong and or c) let it feel wierd for killers.
I also think just focusing on buba and thinking how his camping could be nerfed is the right way cause we need a general solution
Bubba is just prime example. Not the only problematic stuff. So overall I agree with you.
Now to my opinion - camping on killer's side is so common and such a plague, that I would not oppose to nerf it even if it touches also legitimate use of hook defending. Of course I want to minimize this unintended nerfs as much as possible, but given the state the game is in, there needs to be something done about it even if it's not perfect. If anything, compensate-buff killers in some way if the solution touches legitimate camping too much - as this is still lesser of 2 evils.
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@Emeal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3264243#Comment_3264243
you confuse defending the hook with face camping.
I have 0 problems with defending the hook. Killers that defend the hook (and don't camp it) will probably get first hit before the survivor is next to a hook. If he happens to down that survivor before said survivor unhooked, then it's very well done from killer's perspective. I am 100% for this interaction as it makes perfect sense.
Also if you are able to make hook trade (and I stress the word TRADE) by hooking someone into your 3gen, then once again - very well done. I don't see any suggestion in here that prohibits it or hinders the interaction.
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@BlightedDolphin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3263932#Comment_3263932
I see way more survivors bring MacMillan and Azarov offerings than killers do. The only killers I ever see bring those offerings are sweaty Nurses.
If a killer is using an offering it is almost always Dead Dawg or Midwich.
not just nurses. Blights really love these realms. Spirits are not opposed to them too. But I generally see the offering on most killers anyway.
Also I would trade having dead dawg any day to even get a chance for shelter woods.
@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3263556#Comment_3263556
???
Blood Lodge, Ironworks, Suffocation Pit, Groaning Storehouse, Gas Heaven and Wretched Shop are all generally really good Survivor maps
Blood lodge has very low loops - getting any ranged killer (like huntress) is very punishing. Getting slow M1 killer is rewarding. But if the killer has at least mobility, then it's getting damn hard on this map as it's very hard to hide (meaning tunneling is very easy).
Ironworks is very tiny and usually (even if not always) spawn strong 3gen that is easy to defend
Suffocation pit has a split - really strong mid for survivors, but really strong sides for killer - and by strong sides I specifically mean 3gens that are super easy to defend in this gen-kicking meta.
Wretched shop - very low density of loops. Main is rather weak, mid (part of map between shack and main) is very open and contains very little stuff.
These maps are by no means "survivor sided". At best I would consider them even. And I am already very generous.
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@Emeal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3264235#Comment_3264235
Why would I not enjoy the current state where I am able to defend the hook if I need to without any number of random forum suggestions preventing me from doing so because face camping? I am allowed to defend a capture, yes?
because it's boring? You enjoy staying in a single spot and it winning you game? Ok let's bring also some other ######### stuff that was boring but allowed survivors to just win games. Let's start with old key mechanics. You find a key, you fix a few edge generators, let killer facecamp that one unlucky soul and call it a 3man out without any real effort. Sounds healthy right?
Genrushing and facecamping is super boring. Tunneling is not so boring, but it's frustrating as there are very few things you can do to combat it. All these things should be reduced, so they are not a go-to mechanics.
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@Emeal said:
Unfortunately there is no way to prevent face camping while still allowing legitimate ways to protect your hooked survivor.
All we can do is make sure all Facecamping situations that happen gets genrushed or has perks that help that.
bHVR also need to make more perks that do this, SOME FOR THE GENERAL PERK POOL.
yes. But from 6.1 this is no longer possible. 6.2 made a correction, but you need that bandaid perk.
There are many many suggestions that would fix this problem, but all I see is that many killers enjoy current state and ability to just camp it out. And it's not rare
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I don't know where the sentiment from 3 SWF never rescuing solo comes from. From me personally - if I play 3-man and 4th one does not outright troll (there are people that would hide whole game, not do generators, selfcare in corner instead of finishing that 90% gen, not going for rescue ever, ...) then I (and my team) will go for save even if it's 50:50 (or to be precise, even if it's 70% against us - but anything above this and I just take leave).
If that solo carried us and looped the killer for say 3+ gens and then gets downed. And I see there's no way for us to all leave (say my teammates are already dead, or they were forced out), I will happily trade myself for that solo.
I have hard time believing, that I am so special in this. I know that my teammates have similar mindset to my own.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3264209#Comment_3264209
Its not a problem for me, i guees we are just at different leagues you and me then.
Sure enough. Killers don't have this problem.
Also I do take this badaid every single game and if I get semi-competent teammates that actually look at HUD from time to time (to see reassurence is applied) AND use it to push generators, then I also don't really have this problem. But the fact is, that camping requires very little effort and can be very rewarding in games where survivors did not bring reassurence. That is bad design IMO.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3264204#Comment_3264204
I like how you use top mmr as an example for the majority, most of us are not even close to that league Otz plays at.
And if bubba gets a 4k on a camping, its on you...
NOED is so easy to find now, so if thats a problem, its on you too.
HA! This works WAAAAAY better against lower MMR bracket (where people don't know how to efficiently slam gens and that there's no way how to rescue against bubba). And I would argue Hens is a bit better then Otz. Sure enough this is debatable. But there's no denying, that at least they are both very high MMR.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Start by quitting the meta perks, go with something like Kindred, DS, Diversion, Reassurance or Kinship. I have triced a camping bubba more then once with a setup like that. Or Run with perks like Distortion and get a less noisy survivor to avoid getting caught in the first place.
Also if you cant loop him well enough, replace Adrenaline with Lithe (or another perk that helps you get distance).
Also a facecamping killer is loosing so much on that tactic, if the team knows what goes on (Kindred) and know how to counter this. (To rush gens). A facecamping killer should loose at least 3 gens on 1 hook camping, and if you looped him just for a bit, he should have lost 1-3 already.
Drag time as much as you can by doing all skill checks, even if no one is comming to get you, If you give up on the hook or DC you reward this playstyle.
Bubbas chanisaw is fine as it is, 2k is a draw, and i doubt he gets more than a 2k from that match.. unless the team really messes things up.
You are not entitled to an eascape.
oh you are SOOOOO wrong. If no reassurence or kinship is in game (so are we AGAIN just bandaiding stuff?) and bubba knows he will want to camp, he will just take 2 perks - deadlock and NOED. Because of these 2 perks, he will get 2K by the time last gen pops and 3rd kill with NOED. This presumes survivors KNOW what is happening and go slam gens immediately. Even very skilled survivors have very hard time against this AFK strat. See Otz's video (where he explains that even against Hens's godly SWF squad that fully knew what is about to happen and could prepare, he still got 2K):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGLLWqKysfk -
@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3263746#Comment_3263746
The audio occlusion is undeniably buggy
My response was response to specific message. Not to whole topic. Lowering the chase music so that every other noise is clear IS bad idea in my opinion
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4.8m/s speed. IDK. This alone sounds like unbound victor and go play superpower M1 killer.
Also twins will put you into loose-loose scenario. You can kick victor and send charlotte to overdrive and be screwed, or you don't kick victor and play against 6m/s killer until he hits you.
Overall I don't like your suggestion one bit.
As I recently played twins quite a few matches, all I feel is needed to make her feel good is to reduce swapping cooldowns. This will already make her feel much better. It's not even a thing of directly buffing her. I don't care about that one. She feels plenty strong already. It's just so not fun to wait for all the swaps all the time.
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@Whoudini said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3262942#Comment_3262942
Some of those it is still possible to save against given you do it correctly.
it being possible is one thing. The other is, that it's super duper hard. And comparatively much easier for killer. Killer just needs to wait it out and not hit a tree or hook. That's it. Not very hard at all
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@dgbug said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3263595#Comment_3263595
if you're getting afk camped your teammates can do three gens in that time. and removing hook grabs would make really risky plays impossible for non instadown killers to punish. just dont unhook directly in front of killer lol
you can fullly facecamp 2 people until all gens are done. Then you can have NOED. 3K very cheaply considering your tactics. Sure it can backfire, but only if someone brings reassurence AND is able to apply it.
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@Hannacia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3263584#Comment_3263584
MDR has a downside and how often do you see michaels in this game anymore? :D Medkits have no downside. Purple and green medkits are very common nowdays with syringe or syptic and i see lobbies usually with 3-4 medkits all the time.
The downside is really funny one. Which spirit with more then 100hrs will even watch scratchmarks instead of listening to sound? It's like saying syringe is bad, because it consumes my medkit. Sure it's downside. But c'mon.
Also about shape - actually pretty often. About 5-10% of all my games. But they will usually bring one of tombstones or at least infinite tier 3. But getting tombstone piece feels actually very bad.
And if you want to see other items, then ask devs to add more options. Currently there are toolboxes which is hated by every killer, because BNP "is unfair", flashlights that got nerfed so many times, that only very good players can use them now (same applies to firecrackers, but they are even worse, because they are 1-time usage) and medkits. Maps are very useless and keys are beyond useless now.
@CookieBaws said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3263584#Comment_3263584
Health state are the most valuable thing survivor can have, even having 1 heal, can reduce a lot of pressure because you are doing it alone and maybe even faster. Don't even get me started syringes.
sure. So are killer addons. Medkit is survivor's version of killer's power. Medkit addons is survivor's version of killer's addons. I agree medkits are very strong. So are killer addons. Being able to instantly (or very quickly) replenish your power on many many killers is not strong? Or you allow only killers to have strong things?
@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3263584#Comment_3263584
You say that like me being able to heal myself at full speed 3 times isn’t a big deal, when it absolutely is a big deal. Medkits are too quick for self-healing and the better ones also have too many charges.
And MDR, tombstone piece, and several other OP killer addons are overpowered and need changes regardless of medkits. That has nothing to do with it.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3263600#Comment_3263600
That doesn’t make any sense.
The problem is, while I agree they are too good for self-heals, there also isn’t enough incentive to use them on a teammate. I can either have it to heal myself with half the normal input required (1 survivor spending 16s instead of 2), or I can heal my teammate anywhere between 3 to 5 seconds quicker depending on the medkit’s rarity. It’s pretty obvious which option I’m going to choose 99% of the time. The only time I’d ever use a medkit on a teammate is to try and pick them up faster from the ground or if the killer is trying to tunnel them and those few seconds might make a difference.
They are directly the same thing - one being on killer's side the other on survivor's side. I have no idea why talking about one does not influence the other? I mean - they are even on same spot on screen.
@LiveBritishReaction said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3263584#Comment_3263584
3 full self-heals is more than enough for a full match, especially at +50% speed, or god forbid +150% because you brought Botany and some other guy brought Circle.
It can be enough in some matches. It can be too little on others. And we are talking about best medkit with best addon. What you usually get is ~2 heals and maybe syringe/styptic.
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@Hannacia said:
Noticed as well theres some problems with the sounds lately. Also can we talk about lowering the chase music? Would be nice to hear something while chasing the survivor. As a spirit player id appreciate hearing the survivors more than the repeating chase music :). I hate to put my sounds on 100% all the time and then the music kills my ears.
this is intended behavior. Otherwise sound would be permanent wall hack for both sides (so no mindgames)
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@dgbug said:
just-
no-
hook grabs being removed would make survivors bumrushing hooks with dead hard broken-
that's. a really bad suggestion.
Wdym? There's hardly any time to use DH. Also you can wait it out.
Maybe you should play also some survivor and enjoy hardcore campers that afk whole game and still win.
Oh wait. You will not. Because survivor (soloQ) is now way too frustrating and who would want to have afk game after stomp after another tunnel game after getting one baby killer (so that game can check out you have also wins even if it was 0 fun) after another camp and tunnel?
Yeah current situation is "fine" for killers only
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No.
Medkits have very limited amount of usage. Equivalent of medkits are killer addons. And let's be honest - MDR and tombstone piece and all the other OP addons are way worse then medkits, that can at absolute max heal you 3x