FFirebrandd
FFirebrandd
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No... that's pretty much exactly how I've been playing him in my last few games. Use M2 to zone and punish mistakes but use M1 for most of your actual work. Despite me playing him that way, I have not had a single game as Trickster where my last defendable objective wasn't a survivor on a hook.
That sort of play style might actually function if Main Event was less ridiculously easy to counter. That way... yeah you're losing time as you do a mix of M1 and M2 to both get pressure and work towards your power spike, but you make up that time by using Main Event and opening up a can of pain on one or more Survivors. Michael Myers works the exact same way with balancing M1's and Stalking. The problem is that for Myers it mostly works because EW3 is actually very strong and can (basically) be activated at any time. Main Event... is not near as strong as EW3, is significantly clunkier, and is significantly easier to counter.
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@Yords said:
What is the heal tech?
The heal tech revolves around the fact that Killers can't pick up Survivors who are being healed by another Survivor.
What this means is that in an open exit gate, a Survivor can prevent a pick up on a downed teammate and force the Killer to hit them instead. That gives the downed survivor more time to crawl and may result in them getting out when they otherwise wouldn't especially if the whole rest of the team does it.
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So, here's the thing about the word Trick... and by extension the word Trickster as one who does tricks. It has at least two definitions that describe very different things. There's the acts of misdirection and deception. Picture magic tricks, card tricks, sleight of hand... all that stuff. There's also performing physical feats that are flashy, over the top, and usually completely unnecessary. Think skateboard tricks, bicycle tricks, motorcross tricks and the like. Judging from his weapon wipe animation being over the top, just how ridiculously fast Trickster throws knives in Main Event, and how... kinda ridiculous his Mori is, I would say that Trickster is perfectly embodying his name... when taking the 2nd definition into account.
Your idea is good, great even, but I think you're working off the wrong definition of the word trick.
What I'd like to see instead is more over the top ridiculous physicality from him. Especially in Main Event. Like... in Main Event give him a 1 time use of a forward somersault that somewhat slows his throw speed afterwards. Let him do over the top fast vaults of both windows and pallets while in Main Event. That sort of thing.
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@MadLordJack said:
The Kobe chance is definitely higher than 4%. It's far too common for the survivors to yeet off the hook than a 1-in-25 chance to be the reason.
Pretty sure it isn't.
What you are forgetting is that Survivors each have 3 shots at that 4% chance. The odds of the Survivor getting off on at least 1 of those 3 attempts is 11.5%. If you tried to Kobe every game, you'd get off about once every 10 games. Those aren't good odds mind you, but they aren't terrible either.
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Fun fact, if 1 Survivor takes all 3 4% chances, they get off 11.5% of the time. 2 go for it? 21.7% chance that one gets it. If all 4 have to go for it? You're looking at a 38.7% chance of at least one getting off.
A 4% chance stacks up real quick when you've got a lot of chances at it.
So... my guess would be either confirmation bias, or you very frequently put Survivors in a position where that 4% is their only shot. They take it and it happens so much that you're gonna get some to get it.
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Its actually still all about denying CP. Before her free pool buff, the best way to never see CP was to never cleanse. After her free pool buff, one CP vs 4 broken Survivors will probably result in Plague starting a massive snowball if not outright winning the game. Now going for cleansing all fountains to remove all of them is... in some ways better.
At the very least, doing that will keep CP from being as scary.
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Ruin was reworked.
New Ruin is significantly better for fast killers who can easily get to and push Survivors off of gens. However, if a Survivor never gets threatened while they're on a gen, New Ruin does exactly nothing.
Old Ruin is significantly better for slower, setup killers that aren't very good at pushing Survivors off of gens. As long as they got skill checks, they lost at least some progress. However if you can push Survivors off generators, new Ruin will eat so much more Survivor time than old Ruin would.
Ironically, New Ruin is kind of hot garbage for Hag who owns the perk. So... whether Ruin was nerfed or not kinda strongly depends on which killer is/was using it.
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I am 100% ready. I have 9k shards, 1.2 mil BP, 3 dailies, and roughly 6 tome achievements all ready to go.
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@ALostPuppy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2055576#Comment_2055576
In "less time" than Huntress or Slinger? Slinger can hit you within seconds of him seeing you, and Huntress can if you're a good Huntress. Trickster will hit you 2 or 3 times by the time Deathslinger hits you once, and that's all he needs to do to injure you, Trickster still needs to hit you more to even injure. I think it would be fine if you kept stacks of laceration on a survivor but you don't, so there's no incentive to pepper multiple survivors with them, which would actually give him a strength over Huntress and Slinger.
Maybe I need to play him more when he comes out but I really don't see it. I play a lot of Deathslinger too and I just don't know why I'd ever play Trickster over him.
Yes... less time.
It takes Trickster less than 3 seconds to pull out his knives and throw 8 of them. He starts off still moving at 3.68 m/s and if my numbers are right he's still moving at 3.4 m/s after throwing 8 knives. That's actually very quick and really not that much speed lost while doing it. In addition to that, after he's thrown 8 knives there's no mechanics preventing him from continuing to throw them.
Most Huntress players I've watched usually fully charge hatchets before they throw them. Makes sense, you're making an ammo and time investment by throwing one and charged hatchets are much harder for the Survivors to dodge. Here's the thing, fully charging a hatchet also takes 3 seconds and slows Huntress to 3.08 m/s. Also after Huntress lands a hatchet, there's a minimum of 1.25 seconds before she can throw a 2nd one and that'll be an uncharged snap shot so Survivors know they can just run away post hit without worrying about an immediate follow up.
Now for Deathslinger, he can go from seeing you to having you on his spear incredibly quickly. However, at that point Deathslinger hasn't injured you yet. He still has to reel and swing which can take several seconds depending on how long he has to reel you. Then after that he has gotten his injury, but now he has to wipe his weapon and reload before he's really a threat again, all while the Survivor can safely hold W with a 2 second speed boost which he'll need to catch up to. When taken together, all of that is going to take way longer than 3 seconds. Way way longer.
That's why I think Trickster is going to be better than a lot of people are saying. He can be far far more relentless in chase than either of them can be, but as a trade off he needs line of sight on his target the whole time. Now I can't say for sure how that tradeoff will pan out, but I'm excited to see it.
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In all honesty, Trickster's base kit felt pretty strong to me. His knives can actually injure and down incredibly quickly while losing less time and distance than either Huntress or Deathslinger in the right circumstances.
If any part of him does still need buffs after the PTB changes happen, I'd say they should look at Main Event. The concept behind a primarily ranged power burst killer is fantastic... but his burst of power was just... eh? Blood Fury, EW3, and Corrupt Purge are all a huge deal when they happen. Main Event just... kinda wasn't. They have made it a bit better though, so we'll see how that turns out.
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Honestly I think Trapper really only needs 2 changes.
1. Base Trapper starts with 1 trap and can carry 2.
2. All randomly placed traps start open and active.
Bag add-ons are practically necessary for Trapper because repositioning traps one at a time is way too slow. Trapper also currently has an insanely bad early game because he has to go around and place and arm all his traps. Randomly placed armed traps probably won't be a huge threat, but they'll be more of a threat than closed traps or traps on Trapper's hand.
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@KlapzCheeks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2051239#Comment_2051239
The only perk thats somewhat good is No way out.
Starstruck literally tells them theyre exposed so it will do nothing.
Another Hex totem? Yeah, dont get me started.
I think Star Struck has potential. I'm not expecting to get many insta downs with it, but I can see using it to make the Survivors play less efficient. Picture this...
Run Thrilling Tremors, Pop, Agitation, and Star Struck.
Pick up a guy... Thrilling tells you were a gen is in progress. Hike yourself over there with Agitation with the guy still on your shoulder. Suddenly the peeps on the Gen get exposed when your 40m or 48m Terror Radius hits them and are very likely to peace out way earlier than they'd need to because no one wants to get insta downed. This gives you the time you need to get over there with your now active Pop and break the gen before it gets completed. Since you probably just exposed a bunch of people, they're not likely to come in for a fast save or to tap the gen.
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He isn't? From my experience, most of the time Doctor is considered either low A or high B tier. That's nothing to scoff at and the only thing keeping him from being higher is his lack of mobility.
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Does it count if it was mid game on a Twitch chat instead of end game?
I sometimes go rewatch games vs ttv people if they were live during our game. So, while I knew I had a TTV, I didn't know they were in a 4 person SWF.
What I did know is threefold.
- I hate keys. The fastest way for you to get me to tunnel you out of the game is to bring one.
- The Christmas Claudette brought a Key.
- I had queued as Pyramid Head who... kind of specializes in tunneling.
Then half way through the game after Christmas Claudette was dead, they put in Twitch chat "I brought a key for this." subtext being that they were sad/disappointed/annoyed that they wasted a very strong item on a terrible game. Mate... the game turned terrible for you the second you brought the key. Seriously... just about every Survivor should know at this point that bringing a key frequently buys you a 1 way ticket to Tunnelville.
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@JasmineDragon said:
Sitting at his desk every day, he felt his soul slowly chipped away through the monotony. The faint buzzing of the fluorescent light overhead, the faint stench of mold growing on the cubical dry-wall. The tapping of fingers on keyboards incessant, mind bending, reality warping. Not a thought passed as he mindlessly fulfilled his role. He had accomplished nothing, been loved by no one, unable to have kids in a marriage of convenience. His reality would be soul crushing, if there were a soul left. Empty and alone, there was nothing left to take, the dark walls of reality began to crumble around him as his senses were clouded by a thick, drowning fog. Somehow thicker than himself, he felt weightless as he began to float towards the ceiling upon a wave of dark smoke, before a black tendril snaked around his chest and began dragging him deep into the fog.
Join us in the Hollow Crypt DLC, and meet the new killer, John "The Husk". No power, no buffs, a puppet with no will of their own, driven only to act by mindless obedience for command.
ngl I love that lore.
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I personally strongly dislike playing as the Twins. From reading a description of their power, one would expect that you could do a mix of ALL of the following. Use Victor as a deployable Killer Instict detection thing and obstacle. Injure a Survivor with Victor then down the oblivious Survivor with Charlotte. Injure a Survivor with Victor then go for the KI proc next to them as Charlotte. Injure with Charlotte then down with Victor and go for the pick up with Victor standing guard. Injure with Charlotte, down with Victor, Victor camps the slug while Charlotte hunts other Survivors. Go on a massive slugging spree with Victor.
The only one of those options that is powerful enough, fast enough, and not way too clunky to function is anything involving Victor slugging people. Honestly its an absolute shame that they're power turned out like that. I thought I'd love them... but they really are only set up to slug.
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I would be intrigued. Then again... I seem to be the odd one out that I really like M1 Killer gameplay. Love playing Legion and Myers. My most fun game of Twins was one where somebody kept Victor for 90% of the match and I let them.
However you'd have to give this guy some crazy good passive buffs to not make him too weak. Like... they move at 130% or higher when there's no healthy or injured Survivor within 32 meters of them and they perform all break, pick up, hook, and vault animations 10% faster. Even with that or things like it, a lot of people probably wouldn't bother getting them. And yes I realize that that first buff would essentially give them arguably a better Whispers as a base kit perk.
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I pretty sure I'm in the minority here, but I'm incredibly excited for Trickster. I've been enjoying Myers quite a bit and Trickster feels a lot like a ranged version who's stalking can injure and down Survivors. Also I see a unique set of strengths in his kit that I'm eager to try out in game on the live servers.
Also part of me loves that he does the turn and wink at you thing in the lobby... and part of me finds it creepy as hell. Either way, I'm here for it.
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It depends on which killer I'm on. if I'm on a Killer who can handle it like PH or Slinger, I'll tunnel the key user out of the game. If I'm not, I'll probably dodge.
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@Mandy said:
Thank you for the extra information @FFirebrandd
No problem.
One thing I should maybe mention that shouldn't have mattered but might... I don't remember how many exactly but a fairly large percent of my hooks ended up being on one particular hook. The survivors kept going down near a particular Gen, so the nearest hook got quite a workout.
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@Mandy said:
Trying to figure out what could have happened...what map was it on, and was the basement used?
Azarov's Resting Place.
Basement was not used. I ended up spending 90% of the match on the side of it without the basement.
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@wojtech said:
Try lerys institute, The Game map, Hawkins laboratory, Yamaoka or coldwind farm, on these maps I had gold devout with 10+ hooks
Seeing as 10+ hooks is a minimum of 2 kills, I would suspect that in those games you should have gotten iridescent Devout instead of gold.
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@OMagic_ManO said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2045284#Comment_2045284
Issue is that he shouldn't be comparable to any Killer, he should be unique to himself.
And he is.
EW1 is the only undetectable state that you can attack in and stays after landing a blow. No other stealth killer can do that. No other 115% Killer has a 16m Terror Radius at base with several options to make it even smaller. The only part of Myers that has an easy comparison to another killer is EW3 and Oni's Blood Fury. In all honesty, Blood Fury should be stronger than EW3 because that's all Oni's got.
Myer's issues arise on maps where he cannot leverage either EW1 being undetectable or EW2 having a tiny Terror Radius. When all he's got left to work with is snowballing with EW3, he can easily fall apart. That's why I'm neither saying he's outdated nor that he's fine. On some maps he's fine, unique, and strong. Other maps rob him of his strengths and he's a bad version of Oni.
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@Mandy said:
Did anyone disconnect in that match?
Nope, no disconnects.
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@OMagic_ManO said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2042977#Comment_2042977
I was planning on putting more pulls but I accidentally submitted early, i'm not talking about add ons rn or anything to enhance him like other killers, talking of his kit, does it feel up to date with the current game?
His kit works just fine in the current game assuming he doesn't get a map that actively works against it. If he does get a bad map, he's basically a bad Oni.
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Infinite Blinks Nurse sounds absolutely insane.
Deathslinger who doesn't need to reload would be super scary.
Oh lord... BUBBA! With infinite charges on his chain saw... he'll just be constantly going 132% movespeed and insta down anyone he comes in contact with. It'll be like his rework PTB where double Iri add ons kinda made him insta down Legion... but worse.
The funny thing is Legion... would be significantly stronger than they are now... but... as long as their post power Cool Down stays the same, I don't think they'd be completely overpowered.
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When viewed from a particular lens, this chapter is kind of bringing out 3 Killers.
There's the obvious one, Trickster.
Lots of people never played Wraith due to how weak he was without add ons. Having Purple Windstorm be base kit along with his earlier buffs helps that a lot and you'll probably see him a whole lot more.
Blight's ridiculously low PoV caused lots of people to not play him because it was too easy to lose survivors behind short obstacles. Those changes will probably result in seeing him more often than once every 2 weeks.
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I would not say he's outdated. He honestly has something that is incredibly powerful that no other killer does. 100% undetectable that only ever ends when you want it to and you can attack out of. That being EW 1. A smart Myers player can get a ton of value out of robbing the Survivors of all the info they'd need to avoid him and not get stabbed, even without the Scratched Mirror add on.
However... there's a lot of maps in the game now that are way too large, way too open, or way too safe for Myers to be able to get any value out of EW1 or even out of the half size Terror Radius present in EW2. When you get one of those maps, you end up just trying to make him function as a slower, weaker Oni and it just rarely works. I don't think there's really anything wrong with Myers himself... I think the map design has just been screwing him over quite a bit.
Seriously, there's all the Badhams, Rotten Fields, Shelter Woods, Ormond, Mother's Dwelling, and Blood Lodge that all suck for Myers for how open and big they are. The recent map reworks haven't done him any favors either. Chapel and Asylum got brightened up a ton so Myers sticks out more. Gideon Meat Plant used to be really good for EW1 gameplay but it got brightened, opened up, and made tons safer so now it sucks.
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Honestly Star Struck will fit perfectly into my "Kool Aid Man" build. Its never good when a Survivor gets hooked near a close to done Generator. That build aims to cause that situation as much as possible. Thrilling, Pop, Agitation, Star Struck. Pick up, run at any unblocked gens, the survivor(s) on it should run, hook your guy near it, pop it. I think I had Surge in it before... but Star Struck fits so much better.
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Inner Strength is a good perk. Slightly less so if you have trouble finding Totems like I do, but it is good. Also it is a teachable from Nancy Wheeler who's a licensed Survivor, so you won't be able to get her and unlock her perks through the bloodweb without spending irl money.
I wouldn't bother spending shards to get any of the other 3. None of them are bad, its just that Iron Will is on Jake, who's free. Agitation is on Trapper who's free. Stridor is on Nurse who's free. If you are new, your Shards are worth significantly more than BP because you need those shards to unlock other characters and cosmetics you might want.
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Is it weird that it was on killer? I was Legion, trying to hunt down this Bill late game. I knew he was in the area because of Whispers, but not where exactly. I definitely didn't know he was camping the pallet I was walking through... ngl, it made me jump.
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No.
Removing Victor is non functional as a slowdown for Twins specifically because Victor can get crushed while on the move. For Legion, who is 100% dependent on Deep Wound to act as slow down to function, this would make them useless. It would probably break them the way Old Legion was broken by giving them 100% guaranteed downs. No thanks to both of those outcomes.
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@AChaoticKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2032795#Comment_2032795
What he is trying to say here is that he has no pressure when it comes to multiple survivors besides m1'ing them.
It's not a learning thing it's just he can't really do much like the only good option is to either hit one then fully commit to the other since you can't use your power on multiple survivors it just takes too long to injure them and the laceration decays pretty quickly.
Unless survivors body block he literally can't use his power on multiple survivors, best he can do is go into main event get a down and then go to the next survivor but with how long it takes to down a survivor anyone nearby probably won't be nearby anymore.
Trickster's knives don't take that long to injure though. If you ignore his stacking fire rate buff (which helps him in this case), he raises knives in 0.35 seconds and throws 1 knife per 0.33 seconds. That means that without the stacking buff, he throws 8 knives in 2.99 seconds. With it, its even less. I'm not sure how much because I'm not exactly sure how it works. For context, Huntress takes 3 seconds to fully charge a hatchet.
If you decide to try to stick a gen when Trickster has chased your buddy off, after that ~3s injury... Trickster can turn around and injure you in less than 2.64 seconds assuming he hasn't lowered his knives because his knives have no charge time, no weapon wipe animation, and no cool down. Granted this does need some pretty good accuracy, but it doesn't start getting significantly longer/slower unless the Trickster is managing an accuracy of 50% or less... at which point you probably have a bad Trickster.
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My experience with SBM has been... reasonably good with a few misses.
My first game as Legion seemed like I was against largely competent Survivors. I think I had a Yui who was trying a bit too hard to get the Any Means Necessary tome challenge. It was fairly even until I took a way too long chase that let them finish the last 2 gens and committed to hooking someone after Gens were done who I forgot was on Death Hook. 1k mostly due to my mistakes.
Did 3 Myers games who is my current main. First one, I got 2 not great Survivors, but in spite of that they did get 4 gens done. 4k for me. Next one, I got 1 dead as doors got powered. They grouped up on a single gate and Tier 3 got me 2 more downs. Last one noped out the other gate. Last one was Ormond which isn't great for Myers. They did a decent job of looping and I stayed in Tier 1 too long for the map. Didn't have anybody dead when doors were powered, but had 1 hooked in basement. They got overly altruistic and I scraped together a few more hooks and another kill during end game.
I was curious to see what it would do for my Blight who I'm much worse as and who got bodied the last few games I tried as him. Match took longer to get and I got a crop of significantly worse Survivors. Honestly it undershot a bit. None of them where particularly good at looping and you need to loop vs Blight. Though if I'm being honest, it maybe wouldn't have been so bad if the team hadn't been going way too hard on Sabo and Flashlight attempts. Either way, they only got 1 gen done (though 3 more were close) despite no real tunneling or camping. 1 guy got out cause Unbreakable + Hatch.
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@gamer1 said:
Okay, I get that... but this is why I feel this is not right, because this is what happened...
I got into a locker, when someone got downed, so I could avoid BBQ, so I could then get out and rescue the person off hook. I was waiting the 4 seconds, didn't even have a chance to exit the locker, because they frenzied and hit someone else and then frenzied straight to my locker, and pulled me out right as I was getting out. How is that fair?
To be honest, in that situation the Math says that you either waited too long in the Locker or never needed to be in there in the first place.
BBQ has a minimum range of 40 meters. During BBQ's 4 second aura reading and we'll guess 1.5 second slow exit locker animation, Legion can move 28.6 meters in Frenzy. 40m is significantly longer than 28.6m. Either you were well within BBQ's minimum range and could have instantly left the locker after the hook or Legion could absolutely not have made it to you before you had a chance to leave.
This math even ignores the fact that Legion stabbed someone else, and that most maps have obstacles that prevent people from running from point A to point B in a straight line.
Edit: Also, did your Teammate get Frenzied like... right next to your locker or something? I'm pretty sure a rushed locker exit takes about the same as a fast vault... so 0.9s. Just a general rule of thumb against the Legion... if you can hear their TR and you see someone get Deep Wounds... that means it is time to run as far and fast as possible and it doesn't matter how much noise you make doing it cause they can see you anyway.
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Alright, let me try to provide rebuttals for these...
0 gen pressure:
How often are you trying to interrupt generators at 95%? Cause that doesn't happen to me all that often. Even if Trickster does end up in that position, he can just... walk about 22 meters in the time it takes to throw 16 knives. He can just bat you off the generator if he really needs to interrupt you.
No snowball effect:
Fun fact about Trickster, he can throw 8 knives before Huntress can fully charge a single hatchet. More fun facts, Deathslinger's whole Shoot, Reel, Stab, Wipe weapon, Reload routine takes longer than Trickster throwing 16 knives. Sure, all those knives do need to be heading at the one Survivor, but the guy can get those knives out really fast.
No power pressure:
15 seconds. It takes 15 seconds before laceration starts falling off. That's a fairly long time. If the Survivor is able to loop Trickster for that long without taking a knife hit... you shouldn't be using your knives there. Why do you think Trickster is the shortest ranged killer? Its because that way he can pull off normal M1 mind games at loops where Huntress, Slinger, and Plague would all be too tall to do that. I am fully expecting this guy to need to do a mix of slapping people with his bat and throwing knives and not be Huntress who may as well always throw a hatchet.
M1 remove the laceration:
Easy solution... don't M1 someone who's close to max laceration. You have 60 of your little neon throwing knives. Running out at a bad time is unlikely and honestly if you do run out of ammo at a bad time... that's on you. Especially since you might be able to pull out Main Event and have infinite ammo for a bit.
Now how about we talk about something that Trickster can do that Huntress and Deathslinger wish they could?
When you take a Huntress Hatchet to the back... you know that the next one isn't coming for... probably at least 2 seconds. That means you can milk the post hit speed boost for all its worth and she won't be able to punish you for it. Similar story against Deathslinger. You get shot and reeled while healthy and you can just book it after he stabs you because he's gonna be a 110% M1 only killer until he reloads and cuts his movespeed to 60% for ~2.5s. Now what happens if you get injured by knives? Well... the dude has 60 of the things in his pockets and can rapid fire them. He continues to be a threat even after his knives get you injured. If you decided to try to just hold W away from him and don't get behind something... you'd get 6 or more additional knives in your back before your speed boost runs out. You simply can't milk your post injury speed boost because his power doesn't allow it.
In addition to that... all 3 Killers get slowed by using their power. Guess who gets slowed the least... and has 2 add-ons to reduce how much he gets slowed even more? That's right, Trickster. Using his power loses him significantly less distance than Huntress or Deathslinger.
That is what Trickster has over Huntress and Deathslinger. With Trickster, the killer can be absolutely relentless in ways that those two simply can't. Now will that be enough to make him decent? I have literally no idea. I've generally decided that trying to guess how balance will shake out ahead of time to be incredibly difficult and a waste of time. However it bothers me to no end that seemingly no one can see the parts of Trickster's power that are undeniably better than Huntress or Deathslinger.
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Mori's bypass nearly all of the high risk, high reward interactions Survivors can do to try to save someone who'd otherwise get killed. That includes but is not limited to, Flashlight/Firecracker saves, Sabo saves, Body Blocks, and Break Out shenanigans. Giving the killer a way to freely bypass all of those mechanics for 25% of the hooks is not a good idea.
However... I would like to point out that the Cypress Mori has no such issues. There's no one else left in the game to perform those interactions. If the last Survivor is on the ground and the killer is on top of them... they're basically dead. The only way they aren't is through ridiculously dumb luck, liberal 2nd chance perks, and really shouldn't happen. Letting the Killer end the game with some style points seems largely harmless.
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I absolutely love how Tier 1 Myers is the sneakiest sneak to ever sneak. Sneaking up on and stabbing or gen grabbing Survivors is fantastic. However, playing that way doesn't work vs all teams or on all maps... so... Tier 3 is there for if/when I need the extra mobility and power. Also Tier 2 is still pretty stealthy and Tier 3 can easily be used to be like "Guess what? *SURPRISE INSTA DOWNS*!"
Maybe I was doing it wrong, but as Ghostface I felt like I was playing a really weird version of peekaboo with the Survivors. It just didn't do it for me.
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Are you talking the Killers using Stealth or the Survivors using Stealth?
Killers with Stealth are great fun for me. I also have a strong tendency to load non stealth killers with stealth perks. Everybody is good with not healing against Legion... until he activates Trail of Torment and becomes budget Ghostface. Heheheh.
For Survivor its a bit more tricky. I do enjoy being Stealthy as Survivor too. I want to get my hands on Dance With Me and Deception for that reason. However, going too all in on Stealth can easily result in your team dying earlier than they should because you aren't taking any of the Killer's chases.
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@ManWithALemon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2028073#Comment_2028073
"Which is literally the entire point of the Undetectable Status and using bits of level geometry to break Line of Sight. The only time it doesn't work is if the gen is out in the open or they have Spine Chill, and Spine Chill is actually not super common."
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/VQJC7DMWOGGI/image-2810-29.png
"The only time it doesn't work is if the gen is out in the open"
Even if the gen isn't out the open, Survivors' wide, third person camera allows them to peek around all kinds of corners. They can survey a huge portion of their surroundings even despite walls. And it's not even that hard to do. Just look around you as you're on a gen.
"Spine Chill is actually not super common."
What rank 20 matches are you getting that people don't run Spine Chill? I see it every single game.
"Sloppy buys you 6.4 seconds per injury outside of survivor healing perks or medkits which isn't too bad."
Where the hell did you get these numbers from? That's not true at all.
Sloppy reduces healing by 20%. It changes the speed at which you are healed at base from 1 charge per second to 0.8. Healing requires 16 charges. 16 / 0.8 = 20. It adds 4 seconds. Or at least, it's supposed to. I heard from somewhere that it's actually bugged and only adds 3 seconds of healing time. Even if it's not bugged, though, 4 seconds is barely nothing. Even if you injure all 4 Survivors, that's 16 extra seconds, less than one-fifth of a generator. It's garbo.
"Then... downing someone mid heal can buy me more time than a single instance of Pop."
I don't even know how you made this absurd deduction.
"Despite what you seem to be implying, I do know what I'm doing... and it has been working for me."
I really highly doubt you do if you don't even know the numbers behind the Perk you rate so highly.
I am aware of Survivor's 3rd person camera. I'm wondering what kind of camera you've got if you think you can see most of what's going on around you when you're on a generator that's inside a Jungle Gym.
I'm in red ranks. Most people up there are much more scared of tunneling, slugging, and camping than what I do. Because of that, I don't see much in the way of Spine Chill or Healing perks. It's not unheard of mind you... but lobbies with zero spine chill is FAR more common than lobbies with four spine chill. 4 DS is way more common.
Then Sloppy is even better. 32 * 0.2 is what I did. Yes a survivor healing another takes 16 seconds, but that requires 2 Survivors to stay put. That means that total amount of time the Survivor team loses by healing is 16 * 2 or 32 seconds. If dbd is calculating things your way, then a 2 person heal takes 20 seconds for a total of 40 seconds of lost Survivor time.
The heal progress bar disappears into the ether if you down a Survivor before it completes. If 2 survivors are 15 seconds through their 20 second heal and I stab the person with the heal bar before it completes... well they can kiss that 30 seconds of time goodbye. That's 10 more seconds than Pop will buy you. Its from a different source and can end up being less than Pop's 20 seconds but it still works quite well. That doesn't even count all the time you save if they haven't even started running before you stabbed them. Closing the distance when the Survivor isn't moving is so much easier.
As for the numbers... well... its dbd. They do math weird and I forgot that when I wrote that.
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@ManWithALemon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2027884#Comment_2027884
Sounds to me like you have Survivors who lack situational awareness. The strategies you're describing can be W keyed by just, you know, having eyes and ears. And if that fails, run Spine Chill.
Also, Sloppy is garbage. Just saying. Even ignoring the fact that Survivors have enough healing Perks to give any DBD player a shortcut through medical school, Sloppy barely adds any time to healing at all.
Holding W is difficult when you don't know you need to do it. Which is literally the entire point of the Undetectable Status and using bits of level geometry to break Line of Sight. The only time it doesn't work is if the gen is out in the open or they have Spine Chill, and Spine Chill is actually not super common.
Sloppy buys you 6.4 seconds per injury outside of survivor healing perks or medkits which isn't too bad. Also it gives me 20% longer to spot and ambush them when they do heal with Nurses Calling. Then... downing someone mid heal can buy me more time than a single instance of Pop. Despite what you seem to be implying, I do know what I'm doing... and it has been working for me.
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@ManWithALemon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2027792#Comment_2027792
Your Survivors must be very bad at holding W then.
More like I purposefully have a playstyle or build that makes holding W nearly impossible or significantly less strong most of the time. When Tier 1 Myers abruptly steps around the corner 1 meter away from you, you barely have enough time to not get Gen Grabbed much less hold W and unless the Survivor does something dumb, I don't continue the chase post hit. My Legion build has M&A and Trail of Torment in it for a reason. I run Sloppy on a lot of Killers so switching targets post M1 is much more viable.
The only way holding W is a problem is if the Killer lets it be one... except for a few badly designed maps that are still in the game.
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Honestly, I am excited about this new chapter. Trickster was quite fun the couple times I played him on the PTB, and he's getting a few much needed changes to Main Event, so that's good. I'm hoping to have enough shards for him by the time he comes out.
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I have. It works vs Killers who don't know how to counter it. When I'm on Killer I usually have very few issues with it.
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Outside of Mother's Dwelling, Midwich, and maybe Haddonfield... the "Holding W" problem isn't one. Most killers have Mobility, Range, or Stealth to mitigate it... or are a territorial Killer who shouldn't be following any Survivor who does it. Also there's a decent number of Killer Perks who can further mitigate it.
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I really don't understand all the hate Self Care gets. It is just as time efficient as another Survivor healing you. Maybe more time efficient since you don't have to go run somewhere to find someone to heal you.
Can Self Care get used badly or in bad situations? Sure, but that doesn't make it a bad perk.
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@AChaoticKiller said:
This is only valid against certain killers that don't have any form of a ranged attack or mobility, also this isn't that valid if the survivor is already injured/exposed.
So pig, trapper, doctor, myers (EW3 not ready), freddy, ghostface (if spotted early), Oni (without power), and PH (his power doesn't have enough range and is too slow), plague (at base the survivor is injured and you don't have a chase power).
So if this was used in every chase only 7 killers suffer from this so it's not as big of an issue as true makes it to be. Still against this killers it is very effective and makes them a lot weaker.
This also ignores that they don't go to a loop when the killer is almost too close so PH has a slight advantage over everyone else but for the others this tactic will cost them the game if all survivors use it.
Your list is not exactly accurate in my opinion. Pig can mitigate the first half of that with Crouch and line of sight blockers. Myers can as well with being undetectable in Tier 1 and only a 16m terror radius in Tier 2 which can be pushed lower with perks and addons; the 2nd half of the chase he can mitigate because nobody runs away in a straight line vs Myers cause that's a good way to feed him Stalk. Freddy is invisible to awake Survivors past 32m and inconsistently visible outside 16m so that could end up making it not work and I've had Freddy teleport to a gen in front of me when I've tried to hold W on him.
In addition to that, every killer has Perk options to help with either side of it. M&A, Trail of Torment, Tinkerer, and Dark Devotion for the first half. Save the Best for Last and maybe Play With Your Food for the second half.
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@Dragonshensi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2023064#Comment_2023064
Thanks man. That’s actually good advice. I’ll try it out and see if it works. I patrolled the 3 gens on one side cause someone advised me that way work. Just had another match where I hit and downed an ash at the start barely spent any time in the chase and three gens popped. I’m starting to think gen speed is way too fast. And I keep getting SWF teams. I wish there was a way to disable getting teams.
Playing that way can work... but I'd say doing that is much better as a defensive killer like Trapper, Hag, and maybe Demogorgon. Also if you are playing that way, you are basically purposefully giving up the other 4 gens. If you get discouraged at losing 3 gens really early, I'd recommend not playing that way. Also I've found that playing that way has a tendency to either work great or fail miserably with zero in between depending on whether the Survivors break your 3 gen because you put all your eggs in 1 basket.
Another thing to think about is maybe trying to get Legion. Legion's kit is basically purposefully built around keeping multiple Survivors busy and off Generators and he's got built in slow down to boot. Another upside for Legion is that Thanatophobia is borderline better for him than something like Pop or Corrupt which I'm guessing you don't have and can't get easily.
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Ok, a few things I've noticed from your posts that I can maybe help with.
Firstly, I think I saw a post where you said you were patrolling half the gens on the map then lost 3 gens on the other half. It doesn't take 80 seconds to patrol half the map, so you must be repatrolling gens you've already checked. Why? Generally speaking Survivors won't get off a generator unless you do something to get them off, so you don't need to recheck a gen you've already checked unless at least 1 gen has popped.
Secondly, your early game is having trouble. For this one I strongly recommend getting and using tier 3 Whispers. It should help immensely with not wandering around aimlessly for 80 seconds trying to find someone. If its off, you know there's nobody within 32 meters of you, so you need to be somewhere else. This is immensely helpful in general, but especially for newer killers who don't have a good sense of where and what the Survivors will be up to. In addition to that, it is part of the base Killer set of perks, so you don't need to spend shards or money to get it... and your GF likely already has it. Don't bother with tier 1 and 2 Whispers though... the range on those is too large to be useful.
Thirdly, you don't have many good perks. I feel this one. I was in the same boat for a while as Killer. However, let me try sharing some numbers with you that might help you realize you have better options for slowing the game than you think. A Survivor healing another takes 16 seconds, but it occupies 2 Survivor's time so it actually eats a total of 32 seconds. If you interrupt a heal and down the injured guy 10 seconds through, you just bought yourself the same amount of time as if you had Pop Goes The Weasel. Now, lets say that you're running Sloppy Butcher, which pushes the total heal time to 19.2 seconds. If you interrupt a 19 second heal or 99 stalk and down the guy who just got healed, you just bought yourself 38 seconds! That's nearly 2 uses of Pop and they have to deal with one of their teammates on the ground or hooked. Where am I going with this? A Nurses Calling. That's where I'm going. Its a Nurse Teachable perk (meaning no Shards/money required) that lets you see Survivors healing within 28 meters of you. If you successfully interrupt heals with it, it can buy you so much time. As GF or Slinger, you should be able to use it well since GF has night shroud and Slinger has 24 meter Terror Radius which is less than Nurses range.
Fourthly, I have a suspicion that you are over committing to chases and getting hooks. Do not underestimate the amount of time you can buy yourself just off of getting injuries, especially if you're using Sloppy Butcher which is probably your best game slowdown available to you right now. In fact, I have a whole Slinger build based off of the fact that fully healing off 1 reel and stab with Sloppy will take the survivors 50 seconds (over half a solo gen) and it works. Now, there will be the occasional team you run into that'll just slam Gens while being injured. For those guys, you need to do things that heavily encourage them to heal. Ghost Face kind of does this on his own since Survivors don't generally like having an undetectable Killer step around the corner and easily down them. On Deathslinger, I'd recommend bringing Tinkerer. Works wonders vs healthy Survivors too because you can round the corner, M1 them, then shoot and down them before they get anywhere. You can throw on Thanatophobia (another Nurse teachable) for additional incentive for the Survivors to heal too.
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Maybe it was people wanting to get their rank back after reset? Legion may not be your favorite and may have some flaws, but no one can deny that they are ridiculously good at getting pips. Seriously, I'm pretty sure they're the only Killer I've ever pipped off a 1k with.