FFirebrandd
FFirebrandd
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I do very much want Red Herring buffed. The one concern I have with how you've done this is if you've got your new Red Herring and something else that uses the Active Ability button ready to go at the same time. Dead Hard, the 3 medkit addons that need that.
I've actually come up with my own way to buff it. The way I came up with to buff it is to add 2 effects to the current perk.
- Increase the speed of slow entering and leaving lockers by 30/40/50%.
- The auras of Survivors within 8m of your marked generator are revealed to you.
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NOED is fine and is fulfilling a very very necessary niche.
I want you to try to name all of the good anti gen perks that a new Killer can get their hands on without spending shards, auric cells, or real money. So, base set or a teachable from Trapper, Wraith, Billy, Huntress, or Nurse.
I would be willing to bet you came up with either zero or one with Thanatophobia. New Killers don't have the skills or perks to prevent generators from popping. They just don't. That's why NOED exists and is in the base set. Its there to give them a big power spike when all the gens inevitably get repaired, because BP only perks for Killer are generally *garbage*.
At the absolute most I would be willing to concede that NOED has a telegraphing problem. However, that could easily be intentional. If it isn't, then I would be willing to have NOED promote all Dull Totems to a state between Dull and Lit that I call Smoldering. Also then also make it so Thrill of the Hunt also promotes all Dull Totems to Smoldering and also has the loud noise happen on Smoldering Totems.
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@Visi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1947380#Comment_1947380
Your posts are so devoid of logic that they are painful to read, and the OP is one of the most entitled people I've ever seen discuss this game.
"Why the heck not?" You answer that question with the next sentence. A developer cannot conceivably account for every single possible disability. Game development is a business. You have finite resources and time, and that creates problems if you try to "include as many as you can." If you account for X disability, but not Y disability, then the people with Y disability get to ask the very justified question of why their disability wasn't worth the investment that X disability people got. Why was X prioritized over Y? Do you know what would happen then? They'd be called the same names OP is calling them, and it would be just as absurd then as it is now. It's cheap and quick to accommodate extremely common disabilities like colorblindness and hearing impairment, and these can be accommodated for without negatively impacting or changing gameplay for other players. The same can't be said for those who struggle to pay attention for brief periods of time. Feel free to brand me for wrongthink and hurl the ists and isms at me for being a reasonable person.
With that said... the hook struggle mechanic is boring, pointless, and sometimes flat out doesn't work. I've died before despite mashing my ass off. It should be changed to skillchecks or automated like the first stage, IMO, but it should be changed for the right reasons, and this ain't it.
I did not in fact answer that question with the next sentence.
Just because you cannot deal with an entire massive problem does not mean you cannot and should not chip away at it. I get that this is a business and the Devs have a finite amount of resources to put into the game. Here's the thing though, having your game be playable to a wider range of people is good from both a humanitarian point of view and a company point of view. If you can make the game more approachable by changing something in a way that doesn't negatively impact the rest of your player base, why wouldn't you? Outside of Time and Money constraints that is, those do exist and hopefully your player base will be understanding of that. But, those constraints don't change the fact that it is overall a good thing to do as long as it doesn't compromise the game. The players you have with that issue will be better off and you could easily end up with more players by making those changes.
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@JediWithASniper said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1947580#Comment_1947580
In any sport or competitive game, if you make rules, or design gameplay to include anyone who is not able to compete at the same level, then you get an easier game to play. There is no way to include less skilled players, (not even talking about disabled here) without changing the skill threshold. This is why nurse, spirit, billy, probably soon wraith all get nerfs. They are catering to less skill. Now if you start changing game mechanics for those who can’t hit the right button combos or whatever, the end is that it is easier to play. You lose competition when that is the governing philosophy.
Well see that's your problem right there.
You are under the impression that this is a competitive game. It isn't. This game is way too random, too asymmetric, and way too... everything to be anything more than a fun party game. I've seen some of the Tournaments for this game. They've all been either meme fests on purpose or absolute messes.
If you were after ESports level of competitiveness... well you are just flat out in the wrong game.
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@JediWithASniper said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1947380#Comment_1947380
If you want games that are ridiculously easy, then do it your way.
What on earth does that have to do with anything we're talking about?
I specifically said that accessibility should happen as best it can without compromising the game. Take Rock Band for example. There's sometimes long stretches of repetitive button pushing. Its there because that's how a decent chunk of songs are written. "Fixing" that would break the core of the game, so it shouldn't be fixed. For DBD on the other hand... there's no reason DbD needs repetitive button pushing, so it should get fixed.
If most of the difficulty of a game is coming from some weird, archaic side mechanic that doesn't need to be there, then that is a terribly designed game. Luckily the struggle mechanic isn't where most of the difficulty comes from in this game. Instead it comes from the fact that there's a crazy guy with a machete after you and you need to get out before he kills you.
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@JediWithASniper said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1947305#Comment_1947305
The defense of the position has already been made, but here it is again.
#1 You can’t have dual mechanics running at the same time. The reason for this is that you create an unequal playing field. So you can’t have one guy tapping x while the other just has to hold x. That is completely ridiculous as a way to build games.
#2 You don’t alter game mechanics for disabled groups as the reason why you are altering the mechanic. The reason why is because there are an infinite amount of disabilities, and if you don’t appease them all, then you are discriminating against them. You can’t make decisions like that. You have to make decisions based on the player base, which is not disabled. The moment you start changing mechanics for the disabled group, you are no longer making decisions for the player base. Sorry, but that’s the way it is.
Finally, I don’t care whether they keep it or get rid of it. But I do care why they do it. The moment they start catering to a minuscule group, that’s when the game gets worse, not better.
#1: Never said they should do that... even though in this instance they basically have done it.
#2: Why the heck not? Yes there's an infinite amount of disabilities, but just because you can't include all of them doesn't mean you shouldn't try to include as many as you can. Double that if the methods of including them don't make the game worse for anyone. This isn't an all or nothing thing. Its a case by case thing, and in this particular case there's no reason to keep it the same. Also... disabled players are part of the player base so... your assertion that they wouldn't be making decisions for the player base are just flat out wrong.
#3: Not if the Devs are careful. It is entirely possible to make the game better for a minority group without compromising the game for the majority. Besides... every time they add a new killer or buff a particular killer, they are also catering to a minority group. Unless you think the majority of players main Clown (for some reason)... that rework was 100% a change for a minority.
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@JediWithASniper said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1947274#Comment_1947274
The answer to both issues is no.
Now if you want to debate whether the mechanic is good or bad for the game, that is a separate issue.
Ok then, defend your position. WHY is the answer no? In the context of a change that would not matter for the majority but be significantly better for the minority... why should that not be changed?
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@JediWithASniper said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1947236#Comment_1947236
Right, and nobody is debating whether the mechanic is good or bad, nor whether it should be changed. What is in debate is whether it should be changed because of someone’s disability, or whether there should be dual mechanics operating simultaneously.
and the answer is obviously yes. If the mechanic can be changed to be more accessible without drastically altering the game, it SHOULD be changed. The 2nd stage struggle mechanic does not drastically alter the game in a particularly large way, so it should be changed.
The game would lose nothing by changing it and it would be significantly better for some players by changing it.
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@JediWithASniper said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1947191#Comment_1947191
You don’t get to say that a game mechanic that has been in the games since the beginning is not a core mechanic.
Who cares if it has been in the game since the beginning?
There is literally a replacement for it in the game, right this second, and getting that alternate mechanic instead does not change the game in a large way. Beyond that, there are several ways that you can go through a game and never encounter the hook struggle mechanics. Those are just the facts of how DbD is right now.
Those facts means that that particular mechanic is not core to the game.
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@JediWithASniper said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1947168#Comment_1947168
People who don’t know what a slippery slope is engage in foolish actions that end in disaster. There are thousands of games that cater to disabilities. Most games do not need to and shouldn’t.
If you actually knew what a "slippery slope" was, you'd know it was a logical fallacy.
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@JediWithASniper said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1947019#Comment_1947019
The hook struggle is as core as any other mechanic in the game. What is being discussed here is changing a game mechanic in order for someone with a disability to be able to play it. I am not in favor of that regardless of the disability. Color blindness does not change mechanics, just colors. They are not even remotely the same.
A game mechanic should rise or fall on its own merits, not because some group wants access. That’s a ridiculous reason to change a game mechanic. The moment you start making a, “press x instead of tap x” type of setup, the game is no longer an equal playing field.
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.
You're just flat out wrong then.
Nothing about the 2nd stage struggle mechanics are core to the game. Not even close.
As Survivor, the core things you do are repair gens, rescue people, heal, sometimes cleanse totems, and loop the killer via pallets and windows. If any of those change as far as how they work... the game could end up being incredibly different. Maybe for the better, maybe for the worse... but different. However be honest, how much different is it to have your 2nd hook state be in a PH cage? That can already happen right now in the live game. There's a small amount of difference. However if they changed that over today... does it have the potential to completely change the flow and feel of the game? No. It absolutely does not.
The struggle mechanic IS NOT core. It just isn't. As such, I have exactly zero qualms about changing it to be more inclusive, because changing it simply will not change the overall gameplay experience
Besides, it is being looked at by the Devs anyway.
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@JediWithASniper said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1946985#Comment_1946985
I’m not defending the hook struggle. I’m defending building games normally without taking into account every disability on the planet.
Firstly... you are in fact indirectly defending it because that's the only mechanic getting discussed for changes in this thread. If you didn't want to defend it... you shouldn't have posted what you did in this specific thread.
Secondly... sure there are too many disabilities to build every game around every single one. However building games around as many disabilities as possible without compromising the core mechanics is in fact a GOOD thing. The colorblind options that are coming are a good thing. Changing the struggle mechanics would be a good thing. Why wouldn't you want gaming to be accessible to as many people as possible?
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I'd say keep both. Firecrackers are neat and its a shame they're only available during the event, but flashlights shouldn't be removed.
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@JediWithASniper said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1946561#Comment_1946561
I am never in favor of trying to make everything cater to the smallest minority. Why don’t the devs make the game play itself for people who don’t have arms? If you aren’t in favor of this, then you are discriminating against people without arms!
Just shut up.
Why the heck are you defending the hook struggle mechanic anyway? Even as someone who has zero physical or mental issues doing it, it is dumb, not fun, and just a pain to do. I've wanted it replaced with PH's cage mechanic since PH came out.
I could maybe understand your position if Kenthria was asking about changing a core mechanic in the game... but they aren't. The hook struggle mechanic is a minor side thing that you might not even have to do. Changing it to be more inclusive and less dumb is not a bad thing.
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My guess would be that there are very few left between Reset and the Unbroken emblem not getting any points for time survived. Seriously... the Unbroken emblem either gives you nothing or Gold solely depending on whether you get out or not.
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The point of Deep Wound when it is inflicted by a Killer is to give that Killer some natural game slow down and the option to switch targets more easily because that person with Deep Wound won't really be able to just instantly go back to being productive because if they do for too long, they'll go down.
For Legion, it does its job very well. His playstyle of using Frenzy to harass every survivor on the map if they're near each other would not function without it. It doesn't function quite as well for Deathslinger, but that has more to do with him not getting an information dump when he hits someone with his power, so finding a Survivor to switch to is more difficult.
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As Killer I've been saving TTV names and watching the VoD later... they have a tendency to be either incredibly immersed or incredibly up in my business all the time with very minimal middle ground. I'm not entirely sure why that is but that has been my experience.
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So firstly, play whoever you want. The Survivors don't get to pick who you play.
That said, I rarely have people get salty when I'm playing Legion. What I find is that it is less about what the Killer is and more about how you use them. Tunnel, camp, or slug a ton? Especially early in the game? You'll get hate. Best way I've found to not get hate is to slow down the game in other ways that aren't those. As Legion I can *usually* slow down the game enough with Frenzy, Thana, and cheeky ToT downs that I don't usually need to do those things until late in the game, if at all. Similar story for my Deathslinger build that's designed to milk his Deep Wounds as much as possible.
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It does kinda feel good to fill it up, not going to lie. I will say though that the one practical use I've found for it is to make it more obvious when a Survivor has gone 2nd stage. You can miss the score event for "Entity Summoned" since it goes away. The pip on the counter doesn't.
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I mean, they explained it during the last Q&A. Having the PTB doesn't always let them fix everything they need to before release due to the process of patching the consoles. However what it does do is let them get a jump start on the hotfix patch that almost always shows up a few days later.
Without the PTB, the Hotfix might very well end up taking a week or more to show up.
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I don't think they should revert the whole patch. The UI and Survivor Animations? Sure. Seems like these hit live way before they were ready (haven't had a chance to try it myself). Everything else is actually pretty great. Clown, Wraith, Trapper, and the perk changes? All great. Maybe not enough in some cases but still great. I'm a little more unsure about the map updates but they look really nice at least.
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Because while Hawkins has lots of pallets, most of them are pretty bad. They can get good if you have a bunch thrown and can loop between them, but just about each individual pallet is incredibly easy for the Killer to get a hit at if you try to play it.
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So basically you just dislike the new movement animations? I mean the movement itself (in theory) shouldn't be any different. If it is, that's probably a bug.
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So... I was going to say Plague because very few people would miss her. Then you said the teachables are gone too. People would definitely miss Corrupt Intervention and Infectious Fright. So, that's not an option.
So... despite the fact that I've been really really liking Oppression... I think I'll also have to say the Twins. They might be played even less than Plague, also have a problematic power, and their teachables are not nearly as central to nearly as many other Killers.
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@gatsby said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1925728#Comment_1925728
Spine Chill and Whispers are conditional perks, which means they light up as long as their conditions are met regardless of any statuses or perks a player may be running. That's just how they work
and I don't think Spine Chill should work that way.
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In all honesty, I think Myers is more hampered by the newer maps than anything else. Any map without a reasonably high amount of LoS blockers hurt him so much. Even if you aren't going for attacking people while in EW1, your stalk rate is dependent on how close you are to your target. If they start running really early, you'll get next to nothing. Well... and Spine Chill.
However... overall I dislike your rework. Here's the thing. Oni does the whole "Charge up, go HAM, and Snowball" thing way better than Myers does. Honestly he always will. For that reason... any rework that pushes Myers more towards EW3 gameplay at the expense of EW1 and EW2 is, in my opinion a mistake. Instead they should look into making using EW1 and EW2 better. Those states are actually unique. EW1 is the only permanent Undetectable that allows attacking. EW2 is the only 115% Killer with a lower than 32m Terror Radius.
Also, the EW2 teleport. Like initially I was like "That'd be neat" but this again kind of bumps up against what other killers, namely Freddy, Demo, and kind of Hag can do. I'm just not too sure about that.
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Adrenaline. I really like how the game shifts after the last Generator pops. The whole thing gets a lot scrappier and more intense... and Adrenaline basically gives the Survivors a shortcut past it. Hate it so much.
Prove Thyself. It makes one of your Survivors significantly more of a threat with zero indication that it is in play, much less who has it. Don't like it. Don't think it should have gotten buffed back when the Gen stacking penalty got increased to 15%.
When I'm Myers especially T1 Myers... Spine Chill. Like... I'm undetectable. Outside of seeing me or hearing my breathing/footsteps, you should have no way to detect me. Why does one singular perk break that as bad as it does?
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@WishIcouldmain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1925340#Comment_1925340
Self-care is in the needs something to be efficient. Tenacity yeah it's good but killers will usually pick you up so I prefer to run it with something else. I just don't believe Better Together is necessary I see it pop when I was already going to that gen. And Detectives is still better then Visionary which is a beginner perk only coming in clutch on indoor maps where gens can be tricky. You play the game alot so Visionary isn't necessary you know gen spawns. Why run Visionary with a range that doesn't cover majority of the map and a Cooldown instead of the superior Detectives a perk that has done me just as good on indoor maps and find me that Devour Hope or Ruin. And that three gen much more easily. Why run Visionary over that? And Aftercare is an unfortunate perk where why go through those requirements risk it deactivating when I can have Empathy or Bond always up and running. The problem with most of the perks I listed is there's a better option. And why have off the record which one has a requirement you don't want to do get hooked doesn't last whole game when I can Iron Will help me more actively. Why run Visionary a beginner perk when you know gen spawns Aftercare extra steps that can be taken away, or Off the Record with a requirement you want to avoid perks with limitations when there are superior versions. Detectives rewarding you with so much information, Bond always gives you info that can't be taken away. And Iron will where it can actively help you in first chase avoiding the first hook throwing off the killer. Face it Visionary, Aftercare, and Off The Record aren't as good. But I will run Aftercare sometimes. But Visionary is unnecessary and Off the Record is bad
You seem to have missed my point. You are making a blanket statement that certain perks are flat out, unilaterally better than another when they each have different strengths and weaknesses so they flat out aren't. Maybe you personally find certain perks to be more useful, but that does not mean that they are for everybody in every game under every possible situation.
Bond gives you nothing if your teammates are outside 32m of you. Empathy has a much longer range than Bond but is useless if no one is injured. Aftercare has zero range restriction, but has some other restrictions. You can't just say one is better. Each of those perks have strengths and weaknesses and which one is better heavily depends on what you're trying to use it for.
Similar story for Visionary vs Detective's Hunch. If you only care about where the Generators are, Visionary is better because it has substantially higher uptime than Detective's Hunch. Including at the very beginning of the game.
You also seem to have completely missed the point of Off The Record. Speaking as someone who used to play super stealthy on the Survivor side all the time, the hardest point to be stealthy is right after getting unhooked. The Killer knows where you are, you're bleeding, you're loud, and if you want to get away at a decent rate you have to run which leaves scratch marks. Off The Record is designed to help with that pain point of playing Stealth. Sure, Off The Record isn't active for the entire Trial, but it doesn't need to be to do its job. If your goal after getting hooked is to hide, heal up, then get back to it... well that aura reading blocking its got is really nice since BBQ and Nurses exist AND you don't need muted injured noises permanently... just long enough to heal back up. To get both those effects without running OTR, you'd have to run both Iron Will and Distortion, eating half your perks and Distortion is crazy limited with the number of tokens it gives. Now would it be swanky if Off The Record also blocked scratch marks? Sure. But to argue that it has no purpose just because Iron Will exists is just wrong. You can maybe make a case that it doesn't do its job well enough but that's not what you said.
Also Off The Record is getting an indirect buff with the coming buff to Fixated. Sauntering away from the hook 20% faster with OTR + Fixated sounds like a fantastic way of disappearing. No noise, no scratches, no auras. If your Killer isn't good at tracking blood or you're running Lucky Break... well you just turned into a ghost.
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Something to consider, as the Survivor, your team winning the match is not solely dependent on whether you personally lived or not. It is entirely possible that you were being a thorn in the Killers side in multiple different ways, but you got downed and hooked at the end and your team got pushed out. Yeah you died, but you definitely didn't lose.
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@WishIcouldmain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1925264#Comment_1925264
I meant that some perks are pretty meh on their own but with a proper combo can perform well. And name those several perks you mentioned.
Self Care for one. Yeah sure some people use it badly or at the wrong time, but it eats the same amount of time as a standard heal and makes you a lot more self sufficient even without comboing with anything.
Tenacity for another. Granted if the Killer insta picks you up it isn't so good, but if they leave you alone even for long enough to kick something you can disappear on them and save yourself a hook state. Sure you can't pick yourself up, but the fact that you can use it more than once in a match makes it better than unbreakable in some ways.
Better Together is another perk you seem to be under appreciating. As the teammate of the person, it lets you know that you can come there for healing or to bust through a generator or you can not go there to not bring the Killer there or to spread out on gens because that's the most effective way to get gens done early on.
Also... I just read your OP more closely. Some of your claims are just... what? Visionary is not trumped by Detective's Hunch. Detective's Hunch doesn't do squat to find you your fist Generator because it needs to have a gen pop to activate. Visionary is "I need to find a gen now", Detective's Hunch is "I want to find everything". Similar story for Bond vs After Care. Sure After Care can be turned off, but Bond has limited range and doesn't give your teammates any info at all. With full After Care, your whole team will know you're going for the unhook so they can stay put and... if you get intercepted, they'll know that too before you take a hit.. Iron Will vs Off the Record don't even have the same purpose? Off the Record is Stealth version of Decisive Strike. Iron Will is to limit the Killers info whenever you're injured and won't do crap for you when you're med kitting yourself post unhook vs a Killer with A Nurses Calling or a Killer with BBQ who just got another hook.
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So... here's a tip. Just because a perk needs a combo to be really good doesn't mean it isn't good. Like sure Dance With Me needs Q&Q but with it, it is really good. Also there's several other perks in that list that are pretty good. Just because a perk isn't "meta" doesn't mean its useless.
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That Legion one is so accurate it is mildly uncomfortable. Then my other 2 are Myers and Slinger the ones you couldn't pin down. I'm not sure how to feel about this.
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@CajunStirfry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1923635#Comment_1923635
That might be the issues then — the add ons.
Just fyi, all of Myers add ons that make Tier 3 last longer also make it take more to reach Tier 3 the first time.
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@LeThougLiphe said:
I can't understand all the people saying they agree with the change and I won't bother to. It's a nerf to a perk that doesn't need a nerf cause it's a high risk high reward perk to begin with. If a "rank 20" player runs it, he simply gonna die in first 5 mins. If a skilled player runs it, the "entitled killer main" should avoid tunneling him cause he's mad lmao. The perk is fine as it is and I don't mind survivors using it against me when I play scratch mirror Myers, Ghostface or Pig, and at the same time I don't care if they know where I placed my trap as a Trapper. The rework makes the perk useless for everyone that runs it and isn't the Obsession, and fundamentally makes the perk worse than distortion. It should be left alone and devs should focus on changing/ removing other perks from the game. Should I remind you that NOED is still a thing? I suppose since you still haven't removed it. The general direction the game is taking is further and further away from it's community and the things that matter to its playerbase, and that proposal undoubtedly proves it.
Its not a nerf. Its a rework for a perk that has multiple very problematic use cases. Seeing where Trapper puts every single trap is way too good. Knowing where the Killer is at will (unless stealth) is also way too good. The fact that that information can be passed to your 3 teammates makes it even more broken.
Also upper floor of Midwich. If you have current OoO and the Killer doesn't have hyper mobility, you can just loop him around the giant square in the middle and he basically can't get you.
Edit: Also whining about NOED? Really? Firstly, NOED isn't that bad and Secondly, NOED has a very important purpose that it is fulfilling quite well. Which is more than I can say for current OoO.
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@HuDawg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1922434#Comment_1922434
Seems to me they are promoting tunneling rather than make it a true anti tunneling perk again i haven't used it many times because i only have it on laurie and david king
They aren't promoting Tunneling.
If you're actually being tunneled, you won't have a chance to touch a gen or anything else that turns it off. What they are doing is trying to prevent people from using DS offensively. Things like going for a really dumb unhook because you have DS and BT and the Killer can't really get either of you even though you're unhooking in his face.
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@HuDawg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1922421#Comment_1922421
That's ass if you cant repair gens or do anything other than running throwing pallets or vaulting then i would make it so you can use it more than once
It isn't. It just means that you can't progress the game while having partial immunity which wasn't exactly fair for the killer. Progress the game? Alright but you lose your protection.
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@HuDawg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1922397#Comment_1922397
So basically if i have ds no gen repairs no cleansing totems no healing or any other interactions for the whole game whatsoever?
No.
By turn off I don't mean the 1 time stun goes away. If you do an objective it'll be exactly as if the DS timer ran out. You'll get it again next time you get hooked but THIS activation is gone.
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The new DS will become inactive if you do things that progress the game. So... repairing a generator, cleansing a totem, unhooking a survivor, healing a survivor. I forget all of the specifics, but if it isn't something you might want to do in a chase, it'll probably turn off DS.
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Overall I think the new OoO will be better for the game. The current version of OoO is obnoxious and very overbearing against certain killers. The new one will be a lot less obnoxious and gives the Survivors an unlimited way of figuring out which aura perks the Killer is running which is pretty neat. I'd never run the current OoO cause I'd feel scummy but I think I probably will try running the new one.
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I'd be Ok with its range getting changed to be Killer's Terror Radius +4m or 12m whichever is larger. The perk is fine against pretty much all standard 32m killers but its a bit unfair against Stealth killers especially since a several of them are slower while they're stealthing.
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@Dennis_van_eijk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/223963/what-s-the-point-of-new-object
The killer only sees your aura for what 3 or 4 sec?
Plus bbq has counterplay to it to hide your aura,go in a locker or hide behind a gen in a direct line with the killer.
Now what counter does OoO have?
0
0 counterplay whatsoever.
Even with the suggested rework (if you can call it that) it has 0 counter.
You aying with a friend?
He just takes a perk with him where he can change into the object, ds or that perk where you heal another for 1 health state (sorry forgot the name) and the OoO person has now again everything that the perk does now but without the aura reveal time on it.
Imo, just revert it back to the old ways where it actually had a counter by looking away as killer.
Way better than it is right now and way better than what the devs suggested.
And personally I would change it for against freddy too, because now it is really unlimited info when you're asleep.
All you have to do is run to the shack and there is very little chance of him getting you there
But that is my suggestion
So... couple things.
Firstly, you need to reread the suggestion. If the person with new Object of Obsession is not the obsession, they don't get the 3 second mutual reveal every 30 seconds.
Secondly, with current OoO looking away as the Killer doesn't counter anything. The Survivor looking away turns it off but not vice versa. The only way to counter current OoO is to have the user in your TR or be Undetectable.
Thirdly, Shack is not nearly as safe as you seem to be implying. Its a good tile, don't get me wrong. But it isn't invincible.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1916940#Comment_1916940
Thank you.
Looks like games as trapper against new object will be actually playable again, this is fantastic news. You can just...place traps right after object lights up.
My only concern comes from if like....a SWF. If multiple people, with comms, take this perk- they will be able to always know where you are. You can't play around it every 30 seconds if it's going off every like 10 seconds to someone.
The every 30 seconds reveal only happens between the Killer and the Obsession. If a Non Obsession has new OoO, they can only see you when you see them with BBQ, Nurses, I'm All Ears, etc. So if all 4 have it you don't need to dodge 4 sets of reveal every 30 seconds.
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@Pig_Is_Pog said:
Ds change is nice but object change is useless. only time the killer will see your aura is with bbq anyway and what would be the point t of seeing the killers aura when you know there at the hook anyway? it just doesn’t make sense
You'll get to see which direction they're heading and act accordingly. That's honestly half the use of Kindred.
Also there are other killer Aura perks. A Nurse's Calling, I'm All Ears, Bitter Murmur, and more.
Also new Object helps you figure out all of the Killer's loadout. If you have Object and can see the Killer post hook, you know they have BBQ. If you are healing and can see the Killer, you know they have Nurse's. If you vault something and can suddenly see the Killer's aura, you know they've got I'm All Ears. In all cases you've gained useful information and can act accordingly in the future.
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I'm not going to comment on all of this because... good lord there's a lot. But... why on earth are you nerfing Deathslinger that hard in that way?
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@Terro said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1915546#Comment_1915546
I think it depends on the killer. I've seen a lot of streamers and even a few friends struggle to figure out how killer is played. They struggle to find survivors and even struggle to chase them without losing the survivors. They don't even use their m1 very well let alone their killer powers. When they play survivor they struggle to find gens... But they manage to "loop" a bit. Although, I use the term loop loosely here.
Also, basement seems to be the bane of any new player. When they play killer they'll struggle to find the way down and the survivor Wiggles free. As survivor they can't find the way down and even when they do they struggle to deal with the killer.
It probably does depend a bit on the player behind the Killer... but it doesn't change the fact that the tools given for free to new Killers are... kind of bad. Especially compared to the tools Survivors are given for free. I think the only "meta" killer perk in the free set is Tinkerer (which doesn't really become stupid good unless you have Ruin or Pop) and maybe you could argue Enduring. Over on the Survivor side, you've got Dead Hard, Sprint Burst, Borrowed Time, Unbreakable, Adrenaline, and Iron Will all of which are meta or very close to it.
In addition to that... the 5 free killers are all underwhelming for new players in one way or another. Trapper and Wraith are add-on dependent and kind of perk dependent too. Huntress and Nurse can be difficult to play. Hillbilly's rework made him quite a bit worse and it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of new killers used to get into higher ranks by playing Billy a lot.
All I'm saying is that if Newbie killers were given better tools, more of them would probably stick around.
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I will admit that the new HUD has some layout issues that need to be fixed. However, you can actually see who's who. Makes keeping track of who the Obsession is significantly easier. Having a hook counter is pretty nice as well. Also, have you played with the new HUD? I'm not exactly sure how or what they did, but skill checks with the new HUD are super smooth.
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The key to maintaining pressure is to be constantly forcing the Survivors to do things other than generators. It doesn't much matter what those things are, it just matters that they aren't doing generators. There's the obvious things of course... have somebody on the hook, have somebody having to rescue someone, have someone on the floor, have the Survivor feel like they need to heal, and for some killers have the Survivor need to mend.
However, that's not where your options end. There's numerous perks I've found that can... either let you kind of be in two places at once *or* convince Survivors to do other things or just play inefficiently because they're scared.
- Corrupt Intervention. If a Survivor ends up wandering around for 20 or more seconds looking for an unblocked generator, well that's really good for you. Even better, that time wasting comes at the very beginning of the game where you have basically no pressure.
- Oppression. Every so often you basically can be in multiple places at once. Also Survivors who miss the skill check now have a bad choice to make. Stay on the Gen even though the Killer could easily be coming or leave which wastes time but is safer. This might in fact be one of my favorite perks now.
- Surge. Get a free kick on every gen near you when you down someone and 8% regression. Not good on M2 killers obviously but it can be a real time saver for M1 killers.
- Sloppy Butcher. If you're on a killer that Survivors really don't want to stay injured against (like Wraith), making them heal 20% slower every single time is a great way to stretch the pressure you do have just that much farther.
- Dragon's Grip. It only takes one guy going down to this to make all the other Survivors super skittish about touching generators that are regressing. They don't know how long ago you kicked it, they don't know if your Cool Down was ready. They may not even know that you didn't even kick it and the regression started via Surge. It doesn't matter, they have to respect that if they touch that... they could scream get Exposed for 60 seconds, which is not a good time.
- Trail of Torment. Not really necessary for Wraith, but for Legion in particular I've found this perk is perfect for convincing the Survivors to heal even though healing against Legion isn't usually a good idea. Nobody wants to have the now Undetectable Killer step around a corner and down them for free because they were trying to bust through a Gen while injured.
- Solo Thrill of the Hunt. Survivors don't like leaving glowing Totems lying around. They spot this and they'll just keep coming back to it over and over and over again trying to kill it. If you defend it, those wasted cleansing seconds can really add up. Doesn't really work unless you're on a mobile killer or on Trapper but its an option. Also seeing Thrill of the Hunt pop up will probably leave them wondering what other Hex Perk you might be running and searching for it, because who runs a Hex defense perk without more Hexes?
- Make Your Choice. Similar vein as Dragon's Grip. The rescuer is probably not going to Gen Jockey it up while having that 60s Exposed effect. And well... if they do and you find them... well, congrats on your easy down.
EDIT: Oh and also, don't underestimate the base Gen Regression. I realize it doesn't sound a whole lot... its essentially regressing at 25% of 1 survivor's repair speed, but consider this. You have one guy on hook, one guy going for the rescue, one guy in chase, 2 gens regressing, and 1 guy repairing gens. Overall, the generators are only gaining 0.5 charges per second. Without those 2 gens regressing, the gens would overall be gaining 1 charge per second. In that scenario the base regression is essentially cutting the Survivor's progress in half which is not too shabby.
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Something to keep in mind is that Myers essentially has 3 separate powers. EW1 where you have permanent Undetectable but are slower and have a shorter lunge, EW2 where you are a standard killer with half the normal Terror Radius, and EW3 where you have insta downs, better lunging, and better vaulting. It is your job to use each one of his different powers when they are most useful and make your build around whichever one you are planning on using the most.
So... your mileage may vary greatly with this build... but this is how I make Myers work.
I run Surveillance, Oppression, Nurses Calling, Sloppy Butcher and Boyfriend's Letter. What I do is I do not leave EW 1 until I feel I need the extra power and mobility that EW 2 and 3 give. I get downs by playing very hit and run with Sloppy and Nurses with extra regression and info from Surveillance and Oppression. It is my personal opinion that EW1 is criminally underused. You have no idea how often teams fall to pieces when they have zero clue where the Killer is for 90% of the Trial.
However, that is by no means the only way to run Myers. If you want to rush to EW3 and snowball... faster stalk add ons are good along with Play With Your Food and Infectious Fright. If you want your EW2 to be super scary... maybe run Monitor and Abuse and Dead Rabbit and rock a 4 meter Terror Radius as an otherwise normal killer, maybe with Save the Best for Last and only pop your 99'd EW3 to ruin the Obsession's day and save stacks.
So... tl;dr: Figure out which aspect of Myer's kit you want to lean on and come up with a build that highlights it.
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I don't necessarily think its a "Killer is no fun" problem.
Let me explain.
When I started out on Killer, the Killer queues were actually significantly longer than the Survivor ones. Funnily enough a friend of mine ended up back at rank 20 Killer because he hadn't played in quite a while and it was the same way. Rank 20 Killer queues are actually kind of painful.
Why?
Because the basics of Killer are much simpler than the basics of Survivor. Chase them, hit them, down them, hook them, find the next Survivor and repeat. Beginning Survivors on the other hand have no idea that looping is a thing, are bad at spotting windows and pallets mid chase, miss skill checks, and have a tendency to play very inefficiently. Throw together a game where legitimately everyone has only played the tutorial... the Killer will probably win.
Now, fast forward some... both sides are starting to get better and are starting to get teachables. Skill wise, Survivors have at least 4 different vectors to improve on that I mentioned in the previous paragraph. Killers have less ways to get better. Mostly mind gaming and moonwalking but attempting to learn those skills will make you worse before you get the hang of it. To make matters worse, Survivors can acquire nearly a full meta build (minus DS) by just maxing Meg and Bill. Killers simply cannot get a fantastic build by only investing Bloodpoints.
Those differences represent a massive difficulty spike for killer players with a bit of experience but not much. Honestly I suspect most don't force their way past it.
What does this result in? Well, 2 things. First a shortage of Killer players unless you're in Brown Ranks, and... the vast majority of Killers you run into will either be rank 15-17 Killers who are obviously not great yet or red rank vets with hundreds of Killer hours that have gotten the skills and perks necessary to pretty consistently wreck Survivors again and almost never will you get a killer in between those two extremes.
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@Terro said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1915348#Comment_1915348
I think the reason they haven't done that is survivors are much smaller than killers, harder to see and have a 3rd person camera to look out for killers. It's much more difficult for killers to visually find survivors compared to the opposite. Then even after finding the survivor the killer will probably still need to chase the survivor. Adding in a single perk for all your stealth needs let's you have stealth plus other options that might be a bit much especially across 4 survivors.
I do kind of see where you're coming from with that, though I do think there might be exceptions. It actually wouldn't surprise me if Jeff was larger than any of the Legion members or Hag.
That said... Off the Record and Babysitter are literally trying to be the stealth variant of Decisive Strike and Borrowed Time respectively. They are... not up to the task. Not even close. I definitely don't think every Survivor Stealth perk should get their version of Undetectable, but those two might actually challenge the two perks they're competing with if they got it. Also connecting that new mechanic to unhooks heavily limits how often it'll actually get used.