EvilSerje
EvilSerje
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Buffing killers (lower weapon cooldowns, lower hit distance gain, higher gen time) led to much more abusable camping and tunneling. It is really hard to unorganized average team to counter it technically. So SoloQ now is "go Pro or go home", which is unacceptable for many simply because people come to play for fun at leisure time, not to win tournaments. Especially when they play survivor.
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@DeleteSWF said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3145893#Comment_3145893
This guy has never played high MMR killer.
Wow, you cracked me. How did you know? You have stats? And did you play? Rhetorical questions, of course. "Whatever doesn't fit in my beliefs does not exist."
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@DeleteSWF said:
Solo survivors don't need buffs of any kind.
They need to start repairing gens more and stop playing badly. Low survival rates are entirely due to poor tactical decisions, cockiness and entitlement.
In short "if you want to play survivor, git gut and be a pro", right? And it doesn't apply to killer, of course.
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@Murgleïs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3145774#Comment_3145774
A year ago lmao there was no skill based MMR. Please delete your post already you must be joking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acWwLSP558Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_9x9gExc5s
Lol, just don't bother with so many words and just write that it's your agenda ;-)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kixQIjjy1XQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47i9ipN5n5M
Omg! Now it's killer sided, right? (and it was even before killer buffs and with old Dead Hard). Right? Or is it wrong because contradicts with your agenda?
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@ShinobuSK said:
How would it work on 3rd person view of survivor though ?
Like all arcade games and 3rd person games on Oculus I suppose (technically doesn't differ from basic monitor experience)
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Kindred + Reassurance to basekit
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Spirit stronger, I think, but they both very close. And both fun.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
What do you expect Killers to do?
Spreading pressure isn't worth it when the current meta Perks are all about 3-Genning and camping a single area. Tunneling makes that even easier by forcing a 3v1
Exactly, expect to play smart, that what they should do. Trying to get easy win by cheesing one survivor out, and then slapping and BM-ing the rest is super "great". But the moment they find decent team, lose all gens completely and cant get more than one hook. And start weeping how "survivor sided" game is.
Just saw it few times. Wanted to scream to him "game is not survivor sided! You, dummy, run around my gen I was repairing and don't even bother about it, bloodlusted to get injured nea that just got of hook. I repaired and didn't even move, you won't bother even shoo me off! Genrush my arse!" or "Blue angry girl! You were so preoccupied to remove me out of the game at 4 gens so you ferociously ran after me for 5(!!!) minutes and all gens were done in peace and gates are opened."
Watch how pro's play, how they make survivors uneasy and always busy, how to play strategically, how to play smart and turn everything in your favor rather than hold "W" and "M1". That what I expect killers to do. That what I do. And there is much to learn for me, yet, and that is great.
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@GrimoireWeiss said:
I never understood this notion of Sadako being fun to play as. Her stealth is a watered down version of Wraith + Spirit's passive phasing and her teleport is a watered down version of Freddy. That's the whole killer for ya. Oh yeah, she also has a gimmick that only works if you bring certain addons and with very specific playstyles (moonwalking in chase? Is this 2018 Legion?).
I play Sadako since release almost constantly and she is fun. Fun is not dry numbers and perfomance charts (otherwise everyone should play nurse and blight). She just feels nice. She is comfortable to play. Her power, her animation, lots of small things that builds up into whole fun. Fun is just experience, not her strength.
But recently stopped playing killer because queue time is abhorent, can't blame anyone though, because survivor experience is down to the floor frustrating. So I moved more to other games. Sorry, a little less Sadako in the queues.
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@Omans said:
Unless there are four tournament level survivors on comms then dbd is killer sided currently.
In my 6k hours on DBD I have faced fewer than 10 of these tournament level SWF's while they were on comms.
Many killer players here will say every second game they face is one of those SWF's. It isn't true. You can see all the top MMR streamers for proof.
I don't think the vast majority of games should be easy wins for killers just because tournament level players have a slight edge against the absolute best killer players (excluding nurse, of course)
No, you wrong, everyone that complains about "survivor-sidedness" just face exclusively tournament teams and tournament teams only with no exception. Also every map layout is infinite connected to infinite especially for them.
Yesterday saw one victim of survivor sidedness: ghostface tunnel claudette so dedicated that they both literally ran around me, while I was doing a gen. Two others did other gens too in peace. At the end we broke NOED (ofc, all skilled killers don't go without noed), unhook Claudie and left. And as expected, usual rant about how survivor sided that game is.
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Mindgames + Bamboozle. That's what keeps my Sadako afloat for example.
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You're absolutely right about matchmaking. Because it is general misconseption. SWF is not equals tournament team. SWF is just some dudes play together 80% of the time. Main fuzz is that strong players get very much valuable information. Thing is that very few killers that complaining about SWF are actually meet strong SWF teams.
But bond info is still useful if random Meg is used it too. Kindred helps a lot, btw.
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@GolbezGarlandGabrant said:
Let's not pretend killers aren't complaining either.
Already handfuls of posts to nerf PT.
Truth.
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@fogdonkey said:
In 3 hours I managed to escape only once. My MMR should be close to negative infinite yet I still didn't get easier games.
In 3 hours? Bro, I had few days when I didn't escape. Besides that, I usually escape 1 in a 10-15 matches, and that's for a long long time reference. Only today I escaped 3 times because game gave me 3 potatos in a row and decent teammates.
Point is: MMR is not adjusted because it is calculated wrong.
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Nah, 3 gens absolutely proper danger from killer and complete failure as a teamwork. 3 gens need to stay. It's not like camping and tunneling.
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Absolutely second that, I was talking about it almost a year ago. BHVR tries to balance game so mediocre killers could compete top-notch survivors. Maybe better balance bad killers with bad survivors and pro-killers with swat-teams. At least by adjusting MMR, because bad killers rockets to high MMR and start crying there.
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@zHypnotism said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3142947#Comment_3142947
this man wants to "force killers to develop skills". in a party game. Camping isn't even necessarily cheesing. Stand in front of the first survivor you hooked for a min and see many kills you get. 1 at best... there's no such thing as "forcing people to develop skills", campers, tunnelers, normal players and everyone else will achieve better decisionmaking just by playing. and survivors aren't forced to git gud either, because your solo escape isn't as much as 4K for a Killer. If you get tunneled out and are the only survivor dead by the end of the match then technically many would consider your team as the winning team. there's your prize - if killers go out of their way to kill you, others will benefit form it. Not being able to camp anymore won't lead to a skill inflation in killers. Getting a Kill trough camping is not a cookie. It's just the best thing you can do at a certain point to get the most kills. It is your objective to get as many kills as possible, and camping is just a way to complete it: getting as many kills as possible. if that is the 1 kill you get from camping a basement hook in endgame collapse, you still got more objective completion than a 0k... your point makes zero sense, what are you talking about?
"This man" is talking about, if you tried to read what I wrote before ferociously defend camping, that it is unhealthy and unfun for most of players. That's the main issue. In computer game it is cheesy unfun tactic. Unfun. DbD is not a job, not a war where everything goes. It's competitive multiplayer game with rules and conventions.
So again, please, stop defend camping with "at certain point" or "at some circumstances". It is abused by many without "certain points" and at least because of that should go. "Yes, sorry, it would be nice to have camping in that scenario, but it's not exist. Sorry, use other tactics, have a nice day."
Tactic that works only on average teams is not a good tactic. And if some killer got 0K instead of 1K because there is no camping, nothing terrible with that.
Anyone can tell me about certain circumstances all day long, but I wouldn't understand it anyway, because LITERALLY last 5 matches I saw tunneling and camping right of the bat, from 5 gens start.
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I agree, it's not every camper, but majority of them (at least on my MMR/server). But I really inclined to think that giving abusive unhealthy tactic to "downtrodden" killers as consolation prize is not healthy:
a) it will be abused by others, ofc, but besides that:
b) it won't force killers to develop skills
c) it is unfun behaviour for all participants (at least 4 of 5), and in computer game everything should be fun (that's the idea, right). I'm not talking about "I'm losing, it's not fun, that on is personal"
Let's take survivor, for example. Extremely frustrating experience unless you're many-thousand-hours god-looper. (I have 1200+ and playing survivor is still can ruin my mood). And yet there is not any "consolation prize" for survivor. Like "Ok, you get downed every 5 seconds, here's invulnurability till the end of match, bud". It sounds absurd, right? But for the killer it's turning off most of protection perks in endgame, camping/tunneling, etc. No, for survivor you have to git gud, because there is no other option. And I think THAT IS what should apply to BOTH sides. Forcing killers to git gud. Just by removing cheese option. Like it is not existed in DbD like AK-47s and rocket-launchers for survivor.
Look, you can't saw survivor in half with chainsaw right away, right? He first go down, then you hook him, if he unhooked you need to down him again, hook again. Ridiculous, right? In real life the moment survivor on the floor, I'd saw his limbs off. That is "game convention".
So for the same reasons devs should just remove ability to camp, under same game conventions.
Yes, it will be painful at first, but will drastically improve killers skill, which is great in long term. Because now no reason to develop if it's fine as it is. That's our human nature.
TL;DR
Patting new/bad killers on a head and giving them a cookie to not being frustrated is very bad. Throwing in a middle of the lake to teach them how to swim much better (exactly like survivors are thrown).
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Yes, that's very healthy change. I think hooked survivor still can get skillchecks on a second stage. Maybe rare ones, but still.
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I like that such posts pops over and over, maybe devs pay attention. I gave many many suggestions too, but now I'll give simple idea: weld Sadako's addons into her basekit.
Iri tape + Drawing + Newspaper. It will already make her very neat and still far from strong.
And lullaby have to go. Just completely.
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I'm sorry, but your idea is very wrong in it's basis. You think that campers and tunnelers do this because otherwise you can't win. They do it because it's easy cheap cheesy tactic, where you need zero skill and don't need to lift a finger to win. You can give trillion reasons to play proper (and I know, some will immedieately cling to the word "proper": by "proper" I suggest tactic that allow to compete with strong teams, because strong teams will wipe floor with camper/tunneler killer, therefore camping/tunneling is a dirty way to prey on average teams with zero skill development).
We now have tons of perks that benefit from macroplay (MYC, Grim Embrace, BBQ, etc). Cooldowns, breakanimation, genspeed, all were tuned in favor of the killer. Did it made stupid tactic less frequent? Quite the opposite.
The changes have to come from devs, that is you right, but it have to be changes that deny cheesy tactic. Just so it no exist. Not inducing "NOT CAMPING", but completely punish "CAMPING". That's the only way it will work, sadly.
Reassurance is a great step, but sadly just a bandaid. It need to be basekit, like BT.
Btw, haven't you notice, at least every second camper/tunneler will be super toxic, BMing, hookslapping, etc. Carrots won't work, only sticks.
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Wait, you mean you need super skilled thousands hour tryhard to play one role, right?
Lately, 4 games of 5, hard tunneling and facecamping at 5 gens. If tunneled one is skilled, he run to some extent and other 3 just sitting holding M1 the whole game. If he is not (which is usual), 1 death at 4-3 gens and it's basically gg.
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You know what give away "loser" mentality? Phrases like "not leave the game completely empty handed" and "getting 0 kills with 8 hooks - one of the most unsatisfying things". This screaming "I'm not a killer, I'm beaten downtrodden creature and accept scraps from the floors". Camping and tunneling even more adds to it (first one doesn't work on skilled teams, second one is very dangerous roll dice), plus neither adds any skill to you and that's the most important things.
So, don't be that person. The most effective way for killer:
- Fix your mind. It's a computer game, nothing wrong is to lose, but it's very wrong not to learn and wrong to cling to "scraps from floor".
- Learn macroplay and strategize every your next move (when to drop chase, when to start, where to push survivor, when to use ability, etc). It will change your playstyle immensely.
I recommend RedsGamingGears channel for education, dude explain every his move and decision, I learned a lot from him.
Problem with killers is that at the start its easy mode. Killer just technically cannot lose. And when there is no challenge, no need to improve your skill. Suddenly, when MMR skyrockets, you meet decent teams without skill, and dynamically killer cannot comprehend that it's skill issue.
For me Killer is never stressed, because:
- as killer I always play. Win, lose, successful, not so much, I play still. From start to end. As a survivor it's never your decision and that is frustrating.
- I would 100 percent chose to go against strong and challenging opponent and lose that go against weak and win. Maybe it is my former sport experience talking, but still, I'd better be worst among the best than best among the worst. I never learn and won't improve from weak opponent. In short, again, make up your mind.
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Old RPD was close to one in original game, now they have drilled new walls, removed deadends. Looks promising, we'll see in two weeks.
RPD is one of my favorite maps.
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Nah... Hook suicides and match throws quenched drastically, almost everyone play normally on my MMR, but still win is a luxury. So, update to your phrase would be: "You can win in Solo Queue... if you got baby killer"
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I wonder what your reaction would be if someone suggested some way to revert hookstate or ressurect survivor. That's your answer.
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Does it work with Myers? I remember same challenge in previous books, and Myers's built in power didn't count.
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If "lose" is not escaping (gate/hatch), then around 30-40. Definetely more than 30.
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Dreams, dreams...
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No, zombies are half of the time very annoying and inconvenient for survivors. The only thing I'd add is give Nemi power ability to direct zombies, so they go towards designated location or patrol certain area.
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Except of bad killers weepings no downsides. Also Reassurance should be in basekit.
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I agree that tunneling is not as trash as camping, but terrible still. Because you either have to be a god looper, or you just tunneled out of the game immediately.
Let me explain (just came back 5 minutes ago with fresh examples):
first match: very toxic PH tunneled out of the game first, got one score point of 15 and lots of hookslaps. Had OTR on me, although teammates tried to bodyblock, nothing helped.
second match: not very skilled nemesis. Found me first, I ran him for almost 5 gens and then died. Was it fun for me? Well, kinda, at least I ran. Was it fun for my teammates? Unlikely. They did gens and escaped. And I got scraps of BPs. Very "fun".
But you said absolutely right thing "why should the killer ignore the injured one that came off the hook??" He doesn't if it's pay off. So it's devs responsibility to make tunneling unviable, also as camping. So tunneling would be as beneficial as standing in the corner.
Again, it maybe fun for some god-loopers, but for average people - not so much.
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So called "Lone Wolf" is pretty much only after last gen is popped, and that is already a rare occurance. Before that without altruism you won't survive.
But in the end, if NOED, I'll try safely find it. If survivor camped, it depends on killer type and other survivors. In general, everyone are lone wolfes.
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2 to 3 weeks if playing consistently. For example, got bored with the current game state and played only to close book challenges and last month got only to gold.
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I don't know what's going on, but let's nerf the Pig
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Bubba - 100% it will be facecamping with all baggage of insults, taunting, etc.
Wraith, Legion, Nemesis - majority of players are very tilted, toxic (in more than half of matches it will definetely be hookslaps, hard tunneling, camping and BM in chat).
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@Cameragosha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3136649#Comment_3136649
They nerf thanatophobia and adding many pallet god in new RPD.
And give reassurance OP perk to survivor.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/KYPY776XPDNQ/reassurance.png
Oooof! I feel smell of camper 😀 "Reassurance" is like litmus paper.
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Perpetrators still has 100 and 1 way to circumvent it and abuse/insult you, but normal people are the one that suffer. Censorship should not exist in first place, anywhere.
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Wait wait wait, you mean "scummy exploit" is a counterplay to instakill? You're not serious, right?
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@Biscuits said:
The only way to stop tunneling is gameplay changes, people like to talk big and say they don't do it. Everyone does it when they have to, this isn't a "community" problem. BHVR is responsible for tunneling and camping, nothing will change until they do something about it.
ABSOLUTELY 100% true. You can't force people to play computer game in proper intended way, they will tend to play with the least possible effort instead of learning (our human nature). So it is totally on devs shoulders to make unhealthy ways to play non-existent.
What is computer game (any game, actually): set of rules according to which you must achieve your goal. Adding camping and tunneling to rules that prohibit it and everything would be fine.
In long term it would be even more beneficial, because killers would increase their skill level.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3132183#Comment_3132183
Again. Only in YOUR mind.
Maybe I think survivors are "cheating" because they rush gens. It's unfun and not proper gameplay.
Sorry, only I am against camping? I must be delirious, because everyone talk of camping over and over.
"Genrushing" is great example. I don't think is was an issue anytime before, bad killers just don't interrupt survivors and they do gens. But still, if majority agrees, than it's not proper. As I remember gen repair speed was increased and killers were buffed (to the point that it's complete hell for SoloQ). Now for healthy gameplay let's remove camping, and many agree with that (I believe all except campers). It's a win-win situation, survivors won't have a stupidly-boring gameplay, killers will learn how to apply pressure (and find out that "genrushing" is not exist when you do "proper" gameplay that allow to increase skill and compete with stronger team in the future)
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3131648#Comment_3131648
There's no such thing as "proper gameplay" Only in your mind. On how you THINK someone should play the game.
There IS such thing.
a) Cheesy tactic that works only on casual players is not "proper" gameplay, it's lame playstyle.
b) In computer game some behaviour that is UNFUN for 4/5 people is not proper. I can easily copmare camping with cheating, latter one is only fun for only cheater too. And I believe majority of players would agree, otherwise there wouldn't be complaints about camping every 2nd post.
So yes, there are ways to objectivly determine "proper" gameplay.
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Legion and Bubba hands down. First one I hate from concept to gameplay, second one will camp in 99% of games.
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@Dead_Harder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3131799#Comment_3131799
You would do it if they were the only person with 2 hook while every one else had no hooks and there were only 1 gen, maybe 2 left that are already partway done. In that situation, you would be throwing by unhooking rather than stalling with reassurance. Not in the way that you would be more likely to lose no. In the way that you would make a 4 man escape way less likely by giving the killer a bigger time span to sacrifice that survivor.
Yes this is only useful to good swfs. Yes this is not an issue for solo q or average swfs. I know.
You described rare scenario when survivors choosing least bad play against bad play (3v1 against risking 4th teammate being tunneled out). So what? I can tell 20 lose-lose scenario for both killer and survivor, and that ain't one. It's just a "slug" that teammates don't pick up.
More of that, and most important one, if one "tactic" (I still have nausia calling camping a tactic) suffers A LITTLE from one rare scenario, but completely detriments fun and game absolutely for everyone in lots and lots of matches, I can easily sacrifice it.
Camping should be gone. Like DH is gone. Just being not existant.
Reassurance should be a basekit.
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Dunno about ghostface, but Pig definetely should be nerfed. In any emergency nerf the Pig.
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@Dead_Harder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3131739#Comment_3131739
All you said is true yet it changes nothing? Killer doesnt need to be camping for you to use reassurance. You can do it when they are on the other side of the map.
I don't know why I would do that as survivor, leaving teammate completely useless. Only if I want to throw the match. But as killer, I'm absolutely fine with that. 3v1 is much easier 4v1.
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@Dead_Harder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3131648#Comment_3131648
Reassurance means a single survivor can add up to 3 minutes to any hook stage no questions asked. Doesnt matter if you are near the hook or on the other side of the map. If some one is on death hook and the rest of the team is doing fine, its 100% better to use reassurance to keep the guy on the hook than to save them and risk getting them sacrificed.
Reassurance needs a few conditions to not be batshit insane.
If one is on hook, he is inoperational, then it's 3 survs only and you already going for another one. Unless you are camping.
Reassurance must be a basekit.
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How Reassurance even affect your gameplay if you are proper killer? Definetely won't affect mine.