Domicci
Domicci
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4099331#Comment_4099331
feeling tunneled and being tunneled are not the same thing.
That's not relevant here though, is it?
please look into the "spaghetti sauce study"
Link it, because so far I'm finding an Ignobel award for an actual spaghetti sauce thing that has nothing to do with surveys, and something about marketing segmentation which also does not mention psychology.
its shows how giving people limited choices makes them pick things they don't really feel or want. this applies here
How does it apply here? There was a wide list of options and an 'Other, please specify'. It's a very bold and stretching claim to imply that a large number of people were subconsciously shunted to picking tunnelling as an option when the majority of them felt like tunnelling was not a big deal, especially when a hatred for tunnelling is frequently echoed around the forums and social media too.
balance changes should work to make the game more balanced not less.
Okay. Killers are overpowered by all we know, so tapping them down is fine.
But also, if tunnelling is 'just playing effectively', that implies that it is currently, balance-wise, ahead of its alternatives. Which means it would improve balance to nerf it down.
when the devs repeatedly show which side they balance for
Which is killers. They've openly stated this, and ever since 6.1, there's been a deluge of buffs for killers.
but since most of the player base is survivors and therefore have the larger voice they will have more pull
We are seeing the flat opposite though. Killer complaints have their verbiage copied 1-to-1, whereas the biggest survivor complaint for ten years running is still struggling to be addressed. Hell, look at what happened to fog vials!
Anyone who still claims, post-6.1, that the devs are 'survivor-sided' is just pig-headedly denying reality. It is patently obvious that the killers have a death grip on this game's balancing team. Just because kill rates aren't aimed at 80 instead of 60 doesn't mean they're 'survivor-sided'.
"That's not relevant here though, is it?"
its insanely relevant when we are talking about how we should balance the game should we punish survivors for doing gens efficiently because killers feel like they are getting gen rushed? ow wait no you wouldnt say we should sense the survey didnt ask that because the first one didnt have any killer problems just survivors because again thats who the devs care about.
'Link it, because so far I'm finding an Ignobel award for an actual spaghetti sauce thing that has nothing to do with surveys, and something about marketing segmentation which also does not mention psychology."
surveys are an insanely huge part of part of marketing its why our data is so valuable and companies sell it to one another a survey is just a more refined version of out data if you can extrapolate its not hard to see how it connects to not having a choice for killers to talk about there problems then same way survivors do its like the different kinds of sauces if you dont give people the choice they wont pick it. Its actialy why i liked the new what IP's you want to see in dbd survey was actually half decent wit ha entire tab asking for you to think about things you would want in the game. the should have randomized the order of list the gave but other then that its was a good asking for ip ideas survey,
"How does it apply here? There was a wide list of options and an 'Other, please specify'. It's a very bold and stretching claim to imply that a large number of people were subconsciously shunted to picking tunnelling as an option when the majority of them felt like tunnelling was not a big deal, especially when a hatred for tunnelling is frequently echoed around the forums and social media too."
one social media curates negativity so you will see more of it i have seen streamers complain about tunneling for 30 minites and they were not even tunneled that whole stream just killed first. second an other choice is not good when put at the end of a survey the biased of the survey will effect what a person will be willing to talk about its why you should place the other on a seperate page where they will not be influenced by the choices the person asking for the survey gave its why i can praise the new IP survey just a small tweak and it would be perfect.
"Okay. Killers are overpowered by all we know, so tapping them down is fine.
But also, if tunnelling is 'just playing effectively', that implies that it is currently, balance-wise, ahead of its alternatives. Which means it would improve balance to nerf it down."
its the most effective way and always will be the most effective way because a 3v1 is objectively better to deal with as the 1 then a 4v1. its simple math just like spitting up and doing 3 gens at once is better then 2 people on a single gen its simple math yet again. tunneling is used because survivor is so strong, if survivor wasnt as strong killer wouldn't need to tunnel. even in comp the tunnel every single match even on s tiers. the problem is the devs want to hand hold bad survivors which good survivors weaponize, like with the better bt base kit. is constantly weaponized and is one of the many reasons i stopped hooking and just slug because survivors get more from hooking them i do as killer but also why i run an unhook build sense i get so much from unhooking might as well make it even better like with babysitter self pres and will make it letting me reset survivors off hook insanely fast in a safe spot and even if i mess up my teammate will usually use there off hook bt aggressively letting me live.
"Which is killers. They've openly stated this, and ever since 6.1, there's been a deluge of buffs for killers."
they can balance for survivor while still throwing small buffs to killers and lets not forget the massive nerf all killers got with base kit bt being increased and still working in end game and the pallet density update making some killers go from mid b tier to low c tier because they just turn into beavers eating wood most of the match. the devs also shown it this year with nerfing jason off rip yet leaving a broken survivor perk in cross exam unchanged from ptb even tho survivor main creators were saying its broken. we can also look at how they use kill switch's when the infinite item glitch was unkill switched and the devs told players how to do it.
"We are seeing the flat opposite though. Killer complaints have their verbiage copied 1-to-1, whereas the biggest survivor complaint for ten years running is still struggling to be addressed. Hell, look at what happened to fog vials!
Anyone who still claims, post-6.1, that the devs are 'survivor-sided' is just pig-headedly denying reality. It is patently obvious that the killers have a death grip on this game's balancing team. Just because kill rates aren't aimed at 80 instead of 60 doesn't mean they're 'survivor-sided'."
how are we seeing flat opposite killer queue times are around 2 minites or even under a minite thats showing we have way more survivor players again math basicy math we need 4 survivors for every killer so if we have 30 killers for every 100 players 14 of the killers will have to wait for a match and before jason i had the bp bonus on the killer side meaning we had under 20% of the players as killer on my server.
also agins with the math 60% kill rate is a 50% win rate for killer because again its a 1v4 games the killer has 5 possible out comes 3 being negative 2 positive meaning you need a 60% kill rate to have a neutral experience on killer but no killer breaks 60% kill rate on night light because im sorry till the devs make all stats public im not trusting there strats they have shown they don't understand stats multiple times. not to mention the problem of survivors giving up under hook making survivor stats inflated. i play dredge as my main killer and about 1 in 4 games i have someone give up under hook after first chase or even before first chase because they dont want to play into dredge a mid c tier killer.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
I don't see it often in my killer games. Main time I did was a streamer took a hook state off someone on deathhook. Unfortunately for them they timed it very badly and I had a mori token 🤣
It is an immensely strong perk though. Not sure it should be in the game. A surv with 0 hook states taking a hook off of someone who would be on death hook after the unhook is wildly strong and removes a crazy amount of pressure applies by the killer. But on the pther hand it's an excellent way to reverse a killer hard tunneling. Hard one to call imo.
The it should only work if only one person has hook states if you want to stop "tunneling" (which is such a nebula turm sense apparently according to the devs killing is tunneling)
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4099315#Comment_4099315
When survivors play at 100% efficiency then killer does have a very difficult time. But the time it takes to get that good with survivor is thousands of hours. Killers with the same hours are generally able to beat out survs. And in tournaments they also have to put limitations on killers, i.e. no tunneling, slugging, hook camping etc to prevent the killer from having easy matches.
Even if that wasn't the case then you can hardly call the game survivor sided if it's only at the top 1% or even 5% of skill level. At lower mmr killers have the easiest time. And in my experience playing both killer and survivor, killers punch well above their weight when it comes to hours played. I have about 1500 hours currently. As killer I'm up against and regularly outplay survivor teams who have well over 3 times my hours played. And in my survivor games we'll often struggle in games against killers with 200-500 hours.
There is a stage that relatively new players go through where this survivor sided attitude comes from. I went through it. When I started dbd I absolutely clapped all of my killer games because I started in the protected mmr bracket. But all those 4 and 3 ks ramped my mmr high so at 100 or so hours I was up against co ordinated swfs with thousands of hours who'd been playing the game for years vs my month or two. And I spent a while getting humbled because I didn't have the skill to counter their plays. It's a very frustrating stage and it's easy to say the game is survivor aided when this is your only experience for a bit. But often when you lose it's because you are up against survs who have vastly more experience st the gsme than you do.
Killer IS the power role of dbd. It is infinitely easier to win a game as killer than to get a 3 or 4 out as survivors. Losing killer games is just a much more frustrating experience when it happens.
Killer is the power role in name alone swfs and competent survivors are the real power role. The problem is more survivors suck or worse give up under hook and screw over there entire team.
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@MDRSan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4099315#Comment_4099315
Assuming your 340 to 600 second numbers are accurate for the sake of argument:
Regression events never occur? Survivors never spend any time healing? Survivors never spend any time unhooking? Survivors teleport directly from generator to generator? Killers never push more than one person off a generator at a time? Hex totems that need cleansing never exist in matches? Killers can't apply pressure to a generator without fully committing to a 30 second chase on the survivor?
The 340 and 600 are the base each side pulls back but survivors have a stronger base they have chase extenders like sb lith overcome while killers do habe regression only one sides main time extensions being nerfed while the other side has not had theres nerfed as well as getting more time extension tool wirh pallet density with the "quality of life" another thing showing which side the devs balance for.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4099319#Comment_4099319
Aww yes let's use a insanly biased survey. I litteraly have an entire paper abiut hwo what choices you put on a survey effects the survey and it being so survivor sided and survivors also calling basicly killing them tunneling which I have been accused of multiple times when I 12 hook and didnt stack any hook states hooking a new person every time as well as yhe devs nkt even knowing what tunneling is and proving it with the ptbs that survey is utterly useless and so biased to only care abiut survivors needs I would get laughed at by my higher ups if I tried to use thay data in a test and probably reprimanded and retained sense I dealt with life and death problem.
With how badly your sentences run on, that entire paper could be as few as three sentences.
Regardless, you can keep plugging your head in the sand, but regardless of the presence of other options, people would not be answering 'tunnelling' as one of the reasons they quit if they didn't feel tunnelling contributed to them quitting.
You can bicker as much as you like about where tunnelling ranks on the problem list, but the survey does show that tunnelling is, indeed, a problem. Unless you aggressively, specifically bias the survey against it, I don't see a way to change it and somehow have tunnelling not show up as a problem anymore.
People that have left the game have explicitly told BHVR, in not inconsequential numbers: Tunnelling is part of why I left.
That qualifies it as a problem.
But it litteraly is
Yes, but the point is: Imagine if it wasn't.
That's the point of balance changes. Balance changes are useless if they must maintain the current balance.
feeling tunneled and being tunneled are not the same thing. just like killers saying they feel gen rushed when they were not. and again the survey literally asked 0 questions the first time for killers. They literally asked if killer perks were unfun but not if survivor perks were unfun just showing how biased the devs are.
"You can bicker as much as you like about where tunnelling ranks on the problem list, but the survey does show that tunnelling is, indeed, a problem. Unless you aggressively, specifically bias the survey against it, I don't see a way to change it and somehow have tunnelling not show up as a problem anymore."
please look into the "spaghetti sauce study" its shows how giving people limited choices makes them pick things they don't really feel or want. this applies here with a survey that was completely survivor sided and had tunneling be one of the first few options making it more likely to be choses. when you do surveys you 1 dont want the list to be the same for everyone sense you will effect the results with that, second you want a balance of all sides argument and outlooks, so in this case having only a single side cared about will effect the outcome. lastly you need clear definitions that have no real wiggle room if you want to know if someone doesnt like lets use gen-rushing we need to define exactly what it is and stick to that and guess what the devs failed on literally every single one of these
also i was on my phone so sorry i didn't use proper punctuation.
"Yes, but the point is: Imagine if it wasn't.
That's the point of balance changes. Balance changes are useless if they must maintain the current balance."
balance changes should work to make the game more balanced not less. when the devs repeatedly show which side they balance for its a problem that needs addressed, but since most of the player base is survivors and therefore have the larger voice they will have more pull on this weird bad data driven balancing. when the devs can prove first they are not survivor mains with how they address and talk about each side, show they understand how to pull and read data properly and lastly listen to both sides not just the louder side i will start believing the game could be more balanced and not so survivor sided.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4099289#Comment_4099289
"when will you survivor main"
Yeah, this is where i stop reading. If you can't be objective then there's no point. I'm just talking to a brick wall at this point. You can call people x-mains or low MMR or whatever other term to minimise their point, but it doesn't change the fact that both survivors and killers have received balance changes. It's happened. You'll just have to cope with that knowledge.
And no, you're not high MMR lol we've all heard that a million times on here. You can talk about our skill but we aren't the ones on here every day complaining about how bad we have it in the game. Sounds like you're the one struggling to compete. I'm actually doing fine.
Ill stop when the devs stop they are the most us vs them mentally thus form is mostly survivors posts that support survivors talking points are boosted but ones that go against it are downvoted to hell. When in nearly every stream they talk about survivors as I us we and killer as them. You dont like i use it because if I can use the us vs them arguments it dumpsters alot of survivors arguments I play both sides I like both sides but survivor mains are more toxic to everyone even other survivor players while its rare if ever I play into a toxic killer I had one call me an Italian slur because of my name but funny enough I heard it first from a survivors the day before (im not Italian by the way I had to look up what it ment and its not nice to say the least)
Also the reason you dont keep reading is because your identity as a survivor is being threatened so you dont want to look at argument that are against your side. Your doing just as much us vs them when you ignore argument because tou dont want your side hurt or exposed.
Also the game is litteraly built on us vs them its an asim its cant get more clear cut us vs them. And the devs feed into it showing they are on the survivors side with how they talk. So when they devs stop ill stop.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4099315#Comment_4099315
MMR is an invisible number, so you don't know if you are higher MMR or not. Also, the game is handed to you if you can just kill two of the survivors, so you can drop those Killer numbers by half. Also, the fact that the devs aim for a 60% kill rate shows the game is objectively killer-sided.
Coll yet another person not understand why a 60% kill rate is needed for a 50% winrate in killer senses its an asim we have to use middle school math not first grade math. When you have 3 negative out comes for kilelr and 2 positive out comes for killer you need 3 kill avrage per game to have a 50% win rate meaning a 60% kill rate to equal that 50%. Now let's look at survivor we can go back to first grade math they have 1 good out come and one bad out come meaning if escape rate for survivor is 50% they get a good out come 50% of the time. So no the 60% which most killers dont even reach isnt kilelr sided its to make the game balanced because this is an asim not a normal pvp game. This community and the devs in particular need to learn how to read numbers properly and understand them its not hard its basic middle school math .
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4099313#Comment_4099313
Tunneling isnt a problem
It's been consistently complained about for 10 years and features as one of the top reasons people quit the game. That absolutely qualifies it as a problem.
Should survivors be punished for splitting up to do gens? No because they are playing effectively
Legitimately, the game would be better if survivors splitting up on gens (The safest way to play) were not also simultaneously the most effective way to play.
But that requires you to think beyond what the game is now, which necessarily means you cannot simply accept tunnelling 'because it's just killers playing effective'.
Aww yes let's use a insanly biased survey. I litteraly have an entire paper abiut hwo what choices you put on a survey effects the survey and it being so survivor sided and survivors also calling basicly killing them tunneling which I have been accused of multiple times when I 12 hook and didnt stack any hook states hooking a new person every time as well as yhe devs nkt even knowing what tunneling is and proving it with the ptbs that survey is utterly useless and so biased to only care abiut survivors needs I would get laughed at by my higher ups if I tried to use thay data in a test and probably reprimanded and retained sense I dealt with life and death problem. The devs do not know how to read data and its shown every tome the talk about data.
But it litteraly is and survivors have more time to not do there objectively being around 340 second while killers with 30 second chases habe 600 seconds to do there objectives killers have to use every thing given to them to win unlike survivors who can make multiple mistakes and it not impact the game as much as killers mistakes one bad chase can lose the killer and entire match same cant be said for survivor.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4099289#Comment_4099289
If you actually think the game is survivor-sided, that says a lot about your skill level.
Ya im actually im actually in higher mmr the game is objectively survivor sided but because survivor suck so bad at this game and just give up and go next the data doesnt show that. If yiu really think thid game is killer sided your hust showing what yiur true skill level is. Go look at comp they have to ban so much from the survivor side to give the killer a chance in un restricted matchs sirvivors 4 outed and killers never even one there was a single tie and that was from the best Billy player on hid best map and he had to hard tunnel them out. Survivors objectively have more tome to do there objectives them killer sense looking at the numbers it takes 340 seconds for Survivors to do all gems open gate and leave whole it takes kilelr 600 second with 30 second chases to kill all the survivors. You just do not knlw this game well or dont understand data like the devs dont if you think this game is killer sided. Numbers are my thing and extrapolate data from large models for life and death decision for 6 years and I can tell you ad a professional the devs of this game do not understand there game they cant even understand why people get slugged the most on game one of the most pallet filled maps in the game.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4099286#Comment_4099286
Maybe killers should stop giving them reasons to add more anti-tunnel, then.
First off the devs dont even know what tunneling it they consider killing tunneling you canhook everyone and hook the 3 person you hooked 2 times and they consider that tunneling and I knkw this because in the ptb that counted as tunneling the dudes used his 30 second of endurance to body block me so I took him out and the anti hook kicked in because he was my 6th hook. The devs do not know how to read data or extrapolate data and have proven it time and time again. Tunneling isnt a problem its just killers being effective. Should survivors be punished for splitting up to do gens? No because they are playing effectively just like a kilelr tunneling out a survivot when 2 gens pop in under 90 seconds
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@random1543 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4099303#Comment_4099303
well the killers can play macro and kind of force chases into a good gen area and not focus on gens that are too out of the way/ not worth protecting. (most obvious one is no reason for killer to really be patrolling/ protecting the threatre gen in sable map over ones in the middle )
The survivors cant really force the killer to chase someone else, switching the hook stages adds that incentive for the killer to chase someone else, or continue with original target.Yes they can force it by looping well and body blocking it have done it many times on survivor to help a death hooked survivor. I run an unhooking build with out shoulder because im sorry its so broken it makes survivor less fun for me.
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@random1543 said:
What about a side grade with your change implemented?
No longer works on others with STB stacks but you are able to use all your stacks rather then just being limited to one. it makes it more high risk as you can take the only two hooks the killer has to try to get him to chase you as gens pop, or if you use to confidently its one down and out as other would not be able too STB you but they could still do others in match.Survivors just shouldnt be able to move hooks states image if killers could just move which gen is completed so they have a stronger 3 gen. You spent all that time as survivor to break a strong 3 gen and the killer just gets it back
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@Mazoobi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4099287#Comment_4099287
I can definitely see that. I've had many games with just a singular use of the perk and It doesn't do that much damage as long as I already have a few survivors running like headless chickens but having a coordinated group with 3? Yeah the perk needs to have a stricter limit and I play survivor more than I do killer.
I play both sides personally (more killer lately doing a test and the queue times let me put in data while i wait) and genuinly the killer only wins alot because survivors mess up so often because first this game doesnt explain anything well and the amount of people who just give up playing against x kill. i had a game a few weeks ago on dredge where the whole team just gave up after seeing i was playing dredge and said they dont play against dredge a full swf just said no thanks we go next because they didnt like the killer i picked.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4099279#Comment_4099279
Also nerfed the distance survivors got upon getting hit, and kick times (walls, pallets, gens) were also reduced. This community does have selective memory.
reducing the time to do somthing is not the same as having entire better perks added base kit. when will you survivor main learn that the game is survivor sided your just bad. also want to talk about not remembering, remember how apparently killers didnt like being handheld because im sorry thats a bold face lie survivors didnt like killers getting stuff like them. this game is every us vs them because the devs treat killers as the them look how they treat pallet density a massive buff to survivors as a quality of life change and how they use kill switchs on killerin nano second but leave or straight up tell survivors how to abuse perks like with the infinite items.
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@Mazoobi said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/27Q6ZQO8AOFO/untitled.png
Ran into my first squad who used the perk and I must say, it's quite strong. I don't think it was the reason why I lost; granted, the map was FORGOTTEN RUINS a.k.a one of the worst maps to play as twins so there were other reasons at play but I think the perk should be looked at.
Since the map does not allow victor to go through the portals and I sensed that the squad was coordinated with some form of healing (I was correct), I had to rely on a mix of hooks and slugs which were effective until I realized that the survivors were using STB on each other even on those who did have it. That's my main concern.
IMO, the perk should NOT work on survivors who already have a stack/STB hook. The "hook count" doesn't change but I don't think its healthy for survivors to be able to spread those hooks in the first place. It should be a high risk high reward perk but the risk isn't there if survivors can easily spread the hook stages.
Of course as twins I could have easily avoided this but once again, the map was forgotten ruins and the squad was coordinated. The Twins aren't as OP as people claim them to be.
its objectivly the strongest survivor perk in the game it completely removes pressure from the killer and of course they make it so the unhooker is exposed so powers can down them and vigil makes the time your exposed shorter. its should have never been added ot the game immagine if killers had a perk that let them just kick repaired generators completely removing there presure thats how broken this perk is that would have to be what the perk on killer could do let you just undo a gen a have it start regressing
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/469959/shoulder-the-burden-is-crazy
IMO, the perk should NOT work on survivors who already have a stack/STB hook.
I disagree, that'd just make it less effective against tunnelling, which is its core function.
thats not how its used its used to take pressure away from the killer. every single anti tunnel perk and effect the devs have added has been used aggressively to make the game worse for killer.
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@dangersmymidd1ename said:
I agree with the OP that "normal tunnelling" is fine, and a choice made during the game to balance the scales so to speak. However "hard tunnelling" is just not the way the game was intended to be played. Otherwise it would have been a 3v1 game from the start.
What about adding the following protections - but only for the first survivor to be hooked:
- Basekit DS plus basekit Unbreakable - DS for 60 seconds after being unhooked, and Unbreakable for 45 seconds
- During this time the survivor is also Elusive and does not scream
This way the killer is forced to go for someone else, giving that first survivor at least a good chance at participating in the rest of the game.
Absolutely not this would be used aggressive just like current ds but now the first person you hook has 7 perks.
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i dont think she would translate well to dbd imo she could be a skin
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@Angy_Quentin said:
Buff weaker killers, dont stompnerf newer killers.
Jason is fine apart from hexes and addons.
just make it so when your on a totem you don't show up as red
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@Lliart said:
Basically the title. After playing Jason for a few games, it feels like Jason is just a better version of Springtrap. With Jason's on-demand stealth where he can come out at much more favorable spots, his projectile being able to hit more reliably and from further away with more narrow spots, and an insta-kill on last hook, it feels like Springtrap got left in the dust.
Is there any hope on the horizon here for Afton here or is he doomed to be power-crept out by Jason?both are good i prefer springtrap sense his axe is more what i like in projectiles
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Twitch shirt for epi
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It would work as a full chapter
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4098746#Comment_4098746
Yeah that must be why I see no one run it anymore. People at least used the original version a little.
Killer queue times were instant for me at night. Now there's a wait. It'll go back up even more when the banquet ends. It was 10 mins in Australia today. That's not the norm. This woe-is-me killer narrative is just not true. People want to play killer.
I'm playing in a SWF and no one is using any anti-tunnel perks aggressively. The tunneling is still constant. Stop blaming people for other people's actions.
So you're learning a killer and did bad and that's the survivors fault?
cool you arnt but most players do use them aggresivly.
sure i was learning oni but that shouldnt mean the games over in under 3 minutes if gens took longer killers wouldnt need to tunnel as often its that simple tunneling derives from the lack of time killer has. but we wont get any anti genrush changes but we will for sure see them try anti tunnel anti slug again and will fore sure make the same mistakes. the devs pander to survivors sense they make more money off them its simple the devs also talk about us vs them with the devs being survivors how the word things in patch notes shows they are survivor sided with a great example being pallet dencity being called a "quality of life change" thats the biggest load of horse crap its a buff to survivors and a nerf to killers objectivly. you can also see it in how thgey use kill switchs infinit leagon power kill switched before people even knew why infini9t items unkill switched and told players how to abuse it.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4098735#Comment_4098735
A thing that almost never happens. Yet tunneling happens constantly. I've never played a survivor session without a game-start hard tunnel happening to someone. I've never won a survivor match in 3 mins.
The forum isn't survivor sided, there's just some extremely biased people that are only invested in one role and can't understand most people play the whole game. And you realize Fast Track was nerfed to be worse than it originally was right?
It's funny to use the long killer queues as an example since they just show how desirable playing killer is right now no matter how much whining there is.
fast track is still better then old old fast track its perma gen progress compared to normal gen progress so no its still better by a large margen the old old fast track
killer queue times are usaly longer sense they only need to be 20% of the player base so if half the people wanted to play killer and half wanted to play survior queue times for killer will be higher but right now my queue times are under a minite meaning killer area probably making up just over 20% of my servers population and im guessing most of that is due to jason being added pumping up killer queue times before 10.0 i had bp bonus on killer about half the day.
the game is an asim tunneling is a completely okay thing to do and if survivors didnt use anti tunnel so aggressively i bet you you would see less people out so fast. surviors behavior and the devs have made tunneling needed. i personly dont tunnel but thats because i slug and you cant really do both sense hooking is so worthless for killer and helps survivors more.
also just because you cant do gens fast doesnt mean others cant i have had a 3 games this month under 3 minutes 2 as survivor got parred with 2 3man swfs and got chased while they did gens insanly fast and ones as killer when i was learning oni.
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i just hate them all they are all basically second chances on a stick while killers get a poison that can be countered and doesnt really matter with how there are all the pallets. i have only lost games on survivors in this made because a teammate game us
but hands down the worst part is the global heal like really 4 plates on a table and 4 people are healing even if they are in chase the amount of times i have won as survivor with 0 hooks becasue of the food healing people is insane. i had a game where the killer hit me 6 times before dowing me because of the healing meal and me looping him well
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4098714#Comment_4098714
Because a survivor can't remove the killer from the game 2 mins in. What you're complaining about is survivors maybe winning; what survivors are complaining about is not being able to play at all.
and survivors can win in under 3 minutes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fN_ZUUNTzic
so what do you tell the killers that have longer queues and a shorter game. if your tunneled out as a survivor you can instantly get into another match killers cant so i would argue its worse to gen run then to tunnel. but this forms is so survivor sided because they are the majority its not suprising tunneling slugging are a give consern but genrushing and bulling the killer is so low they released that horrible rework fast tack thats still 3 brand new parts if used in a swift and hey look another reason to tunnel out instead of spreading hooks. the devs encouringe slugging and tunneling with how they make perks and how survivors use anti tunnel aggressively which the devs have yet to address.
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@Doctor_Xenomorph said:
I read about 70% of these comments thus far -and here is what I can say -
To start off- I will be perfectly clear, I AM a Killer main because when I like being able to capitalize on mistakes of my opponents + I simply love being able to chase a survivor as they run away (yes I am completely mentally sane, dont judge 🤭).
When I play killer - I notice that I very much have to "sweat" (I made a post about this a few days ago) in order to get a 3k/4k (or sometimes just to get a 1k if I am facing a full sabo/flashlight team). Sometimes after a game I can notice my heart rate actually going down from that match, because I was simply extremely stressed the entire time.
Using the official DBD stats (over the past 30 days) I have a 68.15% kill rate (though admittedly this is somewhat skewed poorly b/c I have let survivors who were nice escape for free). Depending on the killer I can have anywhere from a 64-78% kill rate.
I also have about a 46% escape rate. So in both categories (as killer and survivor) I am exceeding either the 40% escape rate/60% kill rate
Now I say this because I want to demonstrate that I atleast want to believe I know what I am talking about when I say the following: Survivor is overwhelmingly less stressful to play then killer 9 times out of 10.
To prove my point - I personally admit to listening to early 2000's/2010's white girl music when playing as survivor 😅(basically making me unable to hear killer radius) and honestly I can sit there and vibe w/ few cares. When a killer does approach - I just pop a sprint burst or lithe and I am zooming (usually the killer drops chase, if they dont then I just loop them for aprox 30 seconds before I get a slap and go down). I refuse to believe that I am the only survivor that does this (albeit they may have better taste in music than myself). As killer - I don't play music b/c every small sound que is information I need; I need every small tiny advantage I can manage to get to be able to down a survivor and hook them. If I make a mistake - I am immediately punished for it and that feeling of dread just washes over me.
I dont honestly ever feel much of any dread when playing as a survivor, maybe some annoyance here and there but never any genuine dread. But when I play killer - I can feel dread when I get stunned for the millionth time, get blinded while carrying a survivor, get told to **** myself in the EGC, etc.
TLDR: I have experience w/ the game + perform well enough to speak on these topics : playing as survivor has from my experience been a relative breeze w/ very few mental struggles whilst playing killer requires myself to accept that I am going to feel dread eventually at some point most of the time.
when im on survivor i have the heart beat active and jsut jam out to music which i just can not do on killer sense every second matters. i have watched so many video about pharmaceutical science while playing survivor and retained most of the information. while on killer i physicly sweat and my heart reats can reach dangerous bpm (i have a tracker for health reasons.
ya the toxicity on the survivor side is wild i dont know why its liked so much by the toxic players i think its becasue its 1 vs 4 so they are the majority so feel they have the right to do it.
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@mecca said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4098714#Comment_4098714
Sorry but you are wrong. Killer is playing the game in all instances. When you tunnel a survivor at 5 gens they do not even get to play the game. That's wrong, bad ethics because you as the killer is abusing a game to cyberbully another person in a video game. Doesn't matter if the devs say it's not bannable. It just means they are the enabler of bad ethics in a game.
chase is part of the game so sorry you are objectively wrong being tunneled isnt bad its just a strategy. its not bad ethics to play the killer role and want to kill just like its not bad survivors want to escape. your the one with bad ethics trying to force your belifes on everyone else trying to make the dumb survivor rule but like the bible of dbd. tunneling slugging and proxy camping are 100% okay just like saboing blocking the killer from hooking gen rushing stunning and taking protection hits as a survivor is 100% okay. stop pushing your bad faith arguments that killer is so how morally wrong for playing the role they queued up for.
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@mecca said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4098708#Comment_4098708
People that do wrong to people literally don't ever think they are doing wrong. It defines good and bad.
but tunneling is not bad just like genrushing is not bad its just doing your role optimally. why do survivors have all these rules killers have to follow why does the survivors fun and wants seem to overshadow the needs and wants of the killer player. survivors dont owe killers the courtesy of not doing gens and killers do not owe survivors the courtesy of spreading hooks. i would say the only bad people here are the ones trying to force their rules onto others thats evil and shows how little respect you have for the other side.
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@mecca said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4098698#Comment_4098698
Doesn't mean it's ethically ok. There's a lot of things immoral but isn't properly punished.
its completely ethically okay.
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@mecca said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4098607#Comment_4098607
Literally any video game. If you single a person out and grief the person, that's bannable. You prevented them from playing the game. You could even argue it's cyberbullying.
thats litteraly not ture the devs litteraly say tunneling is not a bannable offence. its also not cyberbullying what is is telling people to kill themself for tunneling
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the abandon sysyem is to stop people from holding the game hostage, aswell i have had killers lsugg for the 4k and i was able to get the last gen done pick up the last person and 2man escape
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4098625#Comment_4098625
5 basekit anti-hooking perks besides BT? What?
increased hook timer, anti camp, stopping some powers, no more grab off unhooking. i only count 4 with base kit bt being 5.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
No I'm not complaining about tunneling in general, i tend to be understanding of the concept. The thing I have an issue with is the worst kind of tunneling. Standard tunneling is whatever, if you find a double hooked surv and a no hook surv on a gen, you have a choice and the double hooked surv is the tactical choice every time. I'm talking about hard repeatedly tunneling the same surv off hook to the exclusion of all others straight off the bat. Heck I'm not even that fussed about tunneling straight off hook if it's done mid-late game.
It's this situation. Killer gets their first hook after a realtively short chase, realises that surv is mid/weak at chase. Killer then proxy camps said hook, maybe they manage to force the surv to stage, then as soon as the surv is unhooked, they hit them off hook and commit to the exclusively chase them again down them quickly rinse repeat. You get one survivor dead at 4-5 gens left. That one survivor has no chance to play the game, and the rest of the team is screwed because the game is not supposed to be a 3v1. We've all had games like that.
There has to be a system where the game can recognise that the killer is focusing out one player to the exclusion of all others. In the specific situation where you have 2 hooks on the same player, 0 hooks on anyone else and they are chasing the 2 hooked player there should be some kind of game intervention. Something that stops this kind of play dead. Peehsps a system where the surv on taking the second hit straight off of hook gets teleported to thebopposite side of the map and insta hesled or just invincibility or invisibility that gets cancelled if the killer hooks another player or if a survivor struggles out (obvs I wouldn't want to see survs abusing a mechanic like this for free bodyblocks) this would give the tunneled surv an opportunity to get out of the killer's sight and have a chance to heal and actually try to counter play by going stealthy so they can still achieve something in the match.
Normally it's fairly rare but I've seen an uptick in this kind of play from killers over the last couple of weeks, probably killers getting tilted by black banquet, and an awful lot of jasons too. I'm sure some people will simply call skill issue over this, but this type of tunneling is immensely easy for killers to do and very difficult for all but the best survivor teams to effectively prevent. By the time you realise how hard killer is committing to this it's usually too late to simply genrush. And it literally tanks the game, one surv gets next to no bp and is dead within minutes of the game starting. And the rest of the team is screwed unless there is a wild skill gap between killer and the 3 remaining survivors and they just so happened to demonise the 1 weak surv in a group.
no its part of the game and gives an advantage to the killer the same way slitting up and doing 3 gens at once is better for survivors the goal is to kill and giving your self more time by killing a person is a stratagy only bad survivors dont understand its needed for the killer to stay relivent in alot of matches
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@Jay_K said:
So i saw a post someone posted Title "What does second chance perk mean to you" and as a killer main i felt i couldn't answer that question fairly because there will be some bias in my response. instead i want to take the topic of "Second Chance" and ask two different questions.
I will say im looking for responses from Survivor mains here. Im not interested in us vs them or killer mains who just want to moan. I am genuanly curious about the answer from Survivor Mains and their thoughts on this.First Question
Why are second chance perks like decisive strike, off the record and basekit BT used aggressively by some?As an example i played a game which was already going in the survivors favor. Got first hook on a David, left the area and when unhook happened as i had no one else in view i went back to hook. When i tried to go for the unhooker the David decided to sit and body block me with his basekit BT so i couldn't get to them. This left me no choice but to go for the David as it resulted in the unhooked getting to much distance and if i left David at that point i would have likely lost the game due to so much lost momentum. As a result i got hit with DS after an endurance hit. Similar thing happens with OTR
Second Question
Do you think its fair to now tunnel that survivor at least 1 hook state maybe 2 (depends how mean your feeling) if they intend on throwing themself at you because they have these perks?
The example in question i was able to instantly down the David (Im playing the first and you don't get enough distance to escape his power if he has it after DS) This resulted in the David being tunneled out and the inevitable crying in end game chat that i tunneled them
As i said not looking for any hate or Us vs Them im really trying to understand why survivor mains would use perks that are designed to stop tunneling or for defence and use them agressively which would usually result in being tunneled. Kinda defeats the point of the perks.its because its the best way to use it it buys them the most time its why i have started slugging dont even give them the chance to use it aggressively
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I finally found what caused me so much killer anxiety. While I still have some mostly due to pallet density and playing mainly m1 killers what really got effected by it hard my biggest anxiety trigger is hooks. Hooks for killer shoukd be a reward for winning a chase but it feels more ike a punishment with the 70 second hook timers base kit bt ant camp making 2 floor maps so annoying because I cant use my power below or above them and the 31 perks survivor have that turn on from being hooked or carried to a hook that are all very strong liek deliverance shoulder the burden deadhard ds babysitter self preservation off the record resilience and sabo builds. I just with hooks didnt feel like a punishment for killer
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@LordGlint said:
You do you, but personally I dont wanna try babysitting slugs. It's one thing to slug if I know where the next chase is, but if im about to go patrol the gens LOOKING for another chase... I go ahead and hook.
I play dredge and pig and use both there aura addons I just go check gens and find people in no time.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
I've been seen a lot of creators make videos lately so I figured i would make a post here.
I want to start by saying I've been playing dbd on and off for around 6 years now, I started a little after the clown release and I have killer anxiety. There's many times I load up and get to the killer screen and just stop or maybe sit there trying to find a killer and start thinking of all the stress. That bully squad that was on point and just made that match feel like crap or the match that I ended up having a bad first chase and the game steam roll out of my hands so quickly and then I just close the game out because nah I don't really want to deal with it I'll go play thing else.
I have agree with refined that I'm maybe not be the devs intention but it's most definitely there responsibility to fix the problem. If your game is actively giving one side a real form of anxiety there needs to be some form of change. I think that more attention should be brought to this subject.
I know I'm about to get the loud minority of survivors coming in here and saying how dumb it is and that the killer role is easier them it's ever been but just because the hill your trying to climb is now a 80 degree angle now instead of 90 doesn't make it easy.
If you all want leave your stories here get them out we can try and have an actual discussion.
I have started slugging recently for an experiment to see how many perks I turn off by not hooking but I found it just feel better playing its way less stressful so many strong perks need you to hook and it wasnts so much time and open us so many more things like using base kit bt aggressively and all the stress of that is gone. And losing has felt so much better sense when I lose its been due to skill and not perks so it just stings so much less and the wins feel so much better I feel like im actually scary when I down someone and just keep going looking for my next chase.
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@Wyndsor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4097883#Comment_4097883
How would you account for playing with friends?
well they couldnt get killer so they would still be the power role like normal
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@malloymk said:
My take is that the game is balanced based on Gen slow down perks, and therefore they should get rid of Gen slow down perks and adjust Gen speeds based on the strength of the killer and map size. Same with pallets. They should be adjusted based on killer strength and map size.
Nerf exhaustion perks as a trade off.
There are games where I'm having 20-30 second chases, but since I'm not running Gen slow down perks, I still have to tunnel/slug to win. It's actually pretty wild.
On the flip side, when I play survivor, the killers that run multiple Gen slow down perks do fairly well. They don't win every game, but they definitely fair better than the ones that don't.
I'd actually love to see a long-term no perk mode/item/add-on mode in the game to see who the actual good players are.
Also, way too much aura reading for both sides.
the reason for that is gen slow down perks give killers more mistakes with out slow down you cant make many mistakes while with it gives you more breathing room this game is an attack and defend game the survivors attack while the killer defends. time is the real resourse and why exostion perks are so busted because it can double to tripple the chase time same reason pallet dencity was not a quality of life change it was a buff to survivors and a nerf to killer sense pallets buy time for the survivors while wasting the killers time.
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just add killer bots to killers can abandon when gates open
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
I don't think it would necessarily make him too strong, but I do think it would make him less interesting and remove part of what makes his power unique.
I'm not at all opposed to Dredge getting a buff, he's not a good killer, but imo this isn't the right solution
it was more just a thought because i had 2 game one where the survivors basicly locked every locker and the other they didnt lock one and it felt basically the same just a little annoying waking lockers as i was walking around. the buff i would want to see for dredge is more lockers let him uses chests as well as lockers and lastly have Lavalier Microphone break the locks of the lockers it slams open so not the one your in the once around you
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Sadly dredge us even weaker now die to pallet density. I really like the chest idea as well i think the addon Lavalier Microphone should break locks when it slams the doors open. And lastly add more lockers my god so many maps have large no locker dead zones.
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@09SHARKBOSS said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3928015#Comment_3928015
really?
he seems extremely powerful when I play him and I get iri every month when just messing around with dredge
do people just not use his power mid chase? or what because that genuinely confuses me on how higher skilled players are having more trouble with a pretty good killer
People do the problem is survivor with half a brain can notice and just w key away hes good at killing new players because they dont understand nightfall or his tp well.
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@sanees said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/443776/how-would-you-change-the-dredge
Well, it depends on how it is programmed, if adding additional lockers is a matter of a couple of clicks, then just add lockers, but if it is a big process that requires manually placing lockers on each map, then it is better to just give it +3-5% speed boost at night
Well we are getting a baiscly ground up rework to the game and maps are getting a make over gofor 2027 so if they od it right they coulc make lockers a killer items so when you play a killer that needs additional lockers it would spawn them around the map.
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@ChucksterMainin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4097835#Comment_4097835
Killer anxiety truly is the silent killer right now, Spookyloopz released a decent video recently on that topic too
Ya i saw it and as someone who suffers from very bad anxiety from the military im glad its getting more attention. Killer anxiety feels the same to me as when I used to work on birds stressed that if I mess up even once people can die.
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@ChucksterMainin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4097829#Comment_4097829
your on the wrong mindset. stop worrying about others players fun and play for your fun. for Example i run a Blast Mine build like 70% of my games i love stunning the killer with wiretap so player see him get stun 🤣 and if i can get him at least 2 or 3 times in a game i won in my book.
Dont Limit yourself when Killers and Survivor will still bring their strongest kit
I dont find it fun to do somthing to someone I wouldnt like done to me It makes me feel scummy and I like my build i normally play support classes in games priest in mom lucio in overwatch support necromancer in guild wars 2 so I really like my unhook survivor build as for killer I really dont mind any perks they have they just dont annoy me the same way survivor perks do specifically sb god I hate sb on both sides meg stop ######### slow walking and just 99 your sb for the love of god.
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@Slurpin said:
People are giving multiple so I'll do the same.
- A lot of killer PLAYERS are pretty bad, and I do mean some that put quite a bit of time in the game. I feel like those that act like the game's balanced against them are simply not good. The fact that actually good players need to do insane challenges to lose on some killers speaks volume of the gap between good players and low-ceiling and jaded players that need to whine quite often. Yes the game has BS, but you have more than enough tools to makeup for it. How the hell can you say you're at any sort of disadvantage against survivors unless you purposely bring very crap killers? (I also think MOST killers can blast the majority of public matches if wielded by someone that isn't bad)
- A lot of survivor players are awful too. I'm less inclined to call this a hot take because in the end most casuals go there.
- Killers that say survivor is easy or autopilot only play one side seriously and/or are outright coping. Getting good at survivor is wayyyyyy harder than at killer.
- Survivors that are unable to tell the killer had the right mind to tunnel depending on the tides of the game are just bad at the game and likely not very bright — meaning I think their opinions should be be weighed as far less valuable than someone who plays both sides.
- Nerfing Save the Best of Last was incredibly silly. With pallet density as it is, I don't even think it was ever even close to too strong. Not really a hot take but my God that garbage decision was certainly HOT.
- You should not be playing multiplayer video games if t-bagging makes you angry enough to write a rant about it.
I'm purposely being spicy here because I see too many cold takes. I personally am not actually passionate about any of this, but I like to be on theme!
I play both and survivor is easier im sorry. if you play both sides alot of the macro from killer transfers to survivor while not macro from survivor doesnt normally transfer to killer. Survivor is also way less stress full and why we have a killer anxiety epidemic but not a survivor anxiety epidemic (but I do think survivor anxiety is a thing judt not on the same level as killer)
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@ChucksterMainin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4097819#Comment_4097819
I would Suggest stop listening to your favorite streamer and stop tunneling out the first guy and learn your macro management. I main Legion with 0 slow down and i 3-4k most of my games. Sure there is that game i get pooped on by a wannabe Esports team (in a casual game 🤣) but that is like 1 in every 10 games or so.
A lot of killers lose because they dont know when to break off a chase with a survivor before it is too late.
pick 1 killer and learn. Macro management is a transferable skill.
Hate it or not Killer has been the easiest role (besides a 4 stack swf) coming from someone who has been playing since 2018
I dont use content creators build unless I think the would be fun I run a slow down perk for pressure info perks to get in chase more and quicker and the other pekr is sloppy butcher usaly or sometime rapid brutality sense my mains are dredge pig and hag. Slow i dont tunnel i slug more i find it more fun to just get right into another chase and not have to worry about activating almost 30 different survivor perks. Killer isnt easy survivor is by far easier i play survivor more then killer and I watch videos and listen to music which I cant do on killer. I have a good escape and okay kill rate. I just dont like being hand held its why u run an unhook build and I dont run perks i dont like playing into on killer like vigil lithe or sb.