Why do some survivors use "Second chance" perks agressively.
So i saw a post someone posted Title "What does second chance perk mean to you" and as a killer main i felt i couldn't answer that question fairly because there will be some bias in my response. instead i want to take the topic of "Second Chance" and ask two different questions.
I will say im looking for responses from Survivor mains here. Im not interested in us vs them or killer mains who just want to moan. I am genuanly curious about the answer from Survivor Mains and their thoughts on this.
First Question
Why are second chance perks like decisive strike, off the record and basekit BT used aggressively by some?
As an example i played a game which was already going in the survivors favor. Got first hook on a David, left the area and when unhook happened as i had no one else in view i went back to hook. When i tried to go for the unhooker the David decided to sit and body block me with his basekit BT so i couldn't get to them. This left me no choice but to go for the David as it resulted in the unhooked getting to much distance and if i left David at that point i would have likely lost the game due to so much lost momentum. As a result i got hit with DS after an endurance hit. Similar thing happens with OTR
Second Question
Do you think its fair to now tunnel that survivor at least 1 hook state maybe 2 (depends how mean your feeling) if they intend on throwing themself at you because they have these perks?
The example in question i was able to instantly down the David (Im playing the first and you don't get enough distance to escape his power if he has it after DS) This resulted in the David being tunneled out and the inevitable crying in end game chat that i tunneled them
As i said not looking for any hate or Us vs Them im really trying to understand why survivor mains would use perks that are designed to stop tunneling or for defence and use them agressively which would usually result in being tunneled. Kinda defeats the point of the perks.
Comments
if you use your second chance to protect a unhooker or as an offensive weapon, tunneling no longer is a relevant talking point.
Why would people want to make use of their perks? Great question.
Yeah but the again it starts the question of its ok for some perks to be that strong while they power is determined by their purpose and doing something out of it kinda kills it.
if you use something agressively then you cant be angry when other side does so too. Tha counts doing gen in killers face or forcing bodyblocks or dennying hooks with bodyblocks etc. if you play agressive you cant just expect other side to sit there and take it thats not how it works its just action and reaction.
its because its the best way to use it it buys them the most time its why i have started slugging dont even give them the chance to use it aggressively
Again wanted to know why they use it for not the intended purpose. but i thank you for your valuable input into this topic and wish you a good day
And how can you be the authority of what the 'intended purpose' of a perk is lol?
This is just another 'survivors forced me to tunnel' thread. Just tunnel if you want.
I mean because it wastes the killers time and they are confident that they can lead you on a gamelosing chase.
Prove them wrong.
You seem to have a lot of rules about how other people are allowed to play. I thought you self-professed killer mains hated that.
Are you similarly baffled that perks like Pain Res and Grim Embrace are used when tunnelling? They give a benefit for spreading hooks. Why would a killer use them to tunnel!? (Because they're exponentially stronger in 3v1).
Are you upset when Wraiths use Turn Back the Clock or Dissolution with the Serpent addon? That's not how it's supposed to be used. Why would they do that!?
There is no "intended purpose". Nowhere in the perk descriptions does it prescribe any specific use. Perks have an effect and it's up to players how it is used.
Just like how killers still hard tunnel even though they have perks that reward spreading pressure.
Play how you like, and all that…
I'm not a survivor main (contrary to popular belief) and I don't use the referenced perks, but second chance is a made up term. If the perk exists you can use it how you want. There are often consequences though, so there's also risk, but nothing says you have to use your perks passively and maybe they'll do something.
As for the fair thing, you already have plenty of people that think anything is fair. I also have people doing this to me as Henry. If someone wants to jump in a locker with their DS when I have World Breaker up like an idiot I eat the stun and down them again immediately. It's not a fairness thing, it's just responding to aggressive plays wirh aggressive reactions. They asked for my attention and I gave it to them.
Mostly, it's so they can get value out of the perk. If the killer isn't tunneling them, but they still want to justify having that perk on, they'll do it. They also use them to help the teammate out. If I have 40 second endurance, and my teammate is injured on death hook, why not try and keep them alive? Sure, it puts a target on my back, but at least we won't be down a survivor just yet.
Just as tunneling at 3 gens is strategic for you to win, keeping other survivors alive by taking hits when we can is strategic for us.
Killer mains are just mad they didn't get that down they thought they were owed.
Because they can, and it'd be pretty tricky to try to stop it without unintended side effects, like the sometimes proposed idea of making protection hits disable endurance/DS.. take one moment to think about how obvious it is that'd cause problems, getting in the way of the perks doing their intended job. Not even just around hooks, just imagine running from the killer with DS active, and because an injured Dwight was in a bush that neither you or the killer knew about it counts as a protection hit and your DS turns off 🙃
And yes, I'd argue even most people that might think stuff like hard tunneling off the bat is bad think that if someone actually throws themselves in your face, it's utterly ridiculous for them to complain about you going for them.
When I use my DS and BT aggressively, I almost always expect the killer to tunnel me out and I never blame them because I forced the chase. That david is just an entitled person that’s only complaining because they got outplayed. You also gotta know when to force it, if you do it at 5 gens don’t expect to escape
The simple answer is because people want to get value out of the perks they bring. If they don't then that perk choice was a waste.
For example I've been running deliverance recently. And if I got hooked first I'd get annoyed because it locked me out of using deliverance so I only effectively had 3 perks for the whole game.
From killer perspective imagine you brought a gen regression perk and never triggered it. It's a waste of a perk slot. So you'll go out of your way to trigger that perk.
As surv I personally don't generally use DS. but on the rare occasions I do, I'll make sure to put myself in a situation where I get chance to use that stun, because if I don't then why bother bringing the perk. The fact is simply that survivors have more perks that are very aggravating for killers because they are targeted on messing with the killer specifically and increasing their frustration, i.e. DS, anything that gives endurance, head on etc. Whereas killer perks tend to either affect the trial as a whole or just shorten chases allowing them to down survs which is what every game boils down to.
Before the questions: Intended Purpose is a bad argument. Is something unbalanced? Is something unfun? If it doesn't meet either of those, if it isn't too strong and makes the game fun, who cares whether it was the intended purpose or not?
Onto the questions:
Why are second chance perks like decisive strike, off the record and basekit BT used aggressively by some?Two possibilities
1: It's the correct strategic thing to do (or the player thinks its the correct strategic thing to do). This should be obvious why a player would do such a thing.
2: A little more nuanced as it would vary player to play, but the gameplay is boring without interactions. Trying to pull off a bodyblock is far more interesting and challenging than just sitting on gens. It might not even be the best tactical decision, it might actually be an awful decision, but just doing gen after gen isn't very interesting.
When I play killer I also find it more enjoyable when survivors play like this - I don't understand those who want less interactions and less skill expression in the game.
Do you think its fair to now tunnel that survivor at least 1 hook state maybe 2 (depends how mean your feeling) if they intend on throwing themself at you because they have these perks?You can play the game however you want (within the rules).
However, anytime I ever see this discussion come up, everyone says it isn't tunneling if the target literally puts themselves in front of the killer. People in end game chat might say that, but don't take people trolling comments at the end of the match seriously.
It is an intended purpose.
Logically if you know you have 1 "bonus" health state that is going to expire anyways on doing x or after y seconds, using it to block the killer taking a real health state away from a teammate makes sense
I'd say they want to utilize their value to buy some time. Same why killers tunnel… they do the best to win the competitive video game.
I think people get way too caught up in the made up label of "second chance" and the negative connotation behind it. It shows an inherent bias from 2016 that is pretty divorced from the reality of modern DbD.
Why are these second chance perks? There are so many perks in this game that undo progress or have a defensive effect relative to the role, but survivor perks get singled out as "second chances".
To me, it shows someone's bias. It immediately frames the perk in a negative light.
As for why they get used aggressively: it's someone making a risky strategic decision. They're risking burning through their defenses early and leaving themselves open to a tunnel out.
I genuinely don't understand why so many players get caught up in this stuff. In any sport, you risk getting countered if you overextend and play too aggressively. DbD isn't any different. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Welcome to competition, where strategies may succeed or fail. If someone wants to feed me their DS at 4 gens, go for it. I'll make it a 3v1 after that.
I don't tunnel out of the box, but if you body block with your base-kit BT, or OTR, or some other perk, you automatically forfeit any right to cry about tunneling in post-game chat, you asked for it. Off-hook Endurance is meant to punish tunneling, but if you decide to use it to body block and expect no consequences, you have just given me permission to tunnel you out.