Dizzy1096
Dizzy1096
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2035511#Comment_2035511
There are loops where the tonic sometimes is not enough, especially with something like Dead Hard. Instead of placing 2 tonics in a loop and even then only being able to eat a pallet, you place a tonic and an antidote to give yourself free bloodlust and get a guaranteed hit. I don't see how the effect is minimal, especially that the reload time was buffed and you can reload mid chase no problem now.
And before he had exhaustion bottles for DH, and I never had an issue with any loops, used to use either flask of bleach of 10% ether (which has now gone).
So yeah he's no better than before. Amazing rework, fantastic even.
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I guess I didn't put my point across well enough.
People say if you camp you have no skill, you're a bad player etc etc but all of the highest level players use these tactics because you have to. The game is unbalanced everyone knows that and at the high level you need to use every kind of strategy to win.
I'm fed up of survivors dictating what takes skill in this game. Camping 1 hook and you're terrible, meanwhile they hold W in every chase.
I played spirit with stridor because as expected it was a swf with 4 iron will. Apparently I'm terrible at the game, ok but these people all needed a perk thats nothing but "press E for another chance"? and they had iron will, think about that its just a perk that turns off sounds so killers can't hear you. These are common builds too and somehow one side has twisted the narrative so that having extra chance perks and disabling all sounds is high skill but anything on the killer side is bad? I won btw, which is funny because everyone says you're bad but they lose so what does that say.
Sometimes you need to play to your characters strengths. Imagine you're playing Bubba and you have a survivor in the basement in the Myers house and some other survivor starts tbagging, wanting you to chase them through the house of pain. Why on Earth would you take that bait? why should you put yourself in a situation that is a great advantage for the other side and throw away the great hand you have?
I'm just going to play as dirty as I want to be honest. Funny how it always ends up in disconnects though. I guess thats what happens when the developer coddles you for 4 years.
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At high MMR the games basically reflect the high level tournament games - survivors hold W and killers camp and tunnel hard. Fun for everyone!
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@SilentHillOnDvD said:
He is a pub stomper. He doesn't have tinkerer so if he was playing against a 3man swf that's good on gens it would be pretty hard to win.
lol if Freddy was playing against good survivors, swf or not, they'd have 3 gens at 75% before his power even took effect, and he wouldn't have a hit in.
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@AChaoticKiller said:
I haven't has any issues with hooking survivors and from playing survivor i can say that as soon as the killer starts the hook animation the wiggle meter stops.
Nothing has changed.
Oh no aside from indoor maps I haven't had survivors kick out.
It's just that previously it make take 25% wiggle, 50% wiggle, 75% wiggle, and odd occasions 99% wiggle before hooking a survivor. Now I find that every hook takes about 70-95% wiggle before the hook.
Basically the hooks feel really far apart, which obviously really isn't good as killer as you can't afford to hook survivors some times.
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@Withered8 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2035414#Comment_2035414
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2034850#Comment_2034850
I don't think you guys have actually seen a good blight then. What does spirit actually have over blight? The ability to occasionally down survivors faster than blight? Even then if the survivor plays well the spirit with have to phase at LEAST twice to down them which with a 15 second recovery + phasing time and over time wasters can stack up tremendously. Blight downs survivors way faster in a lot to circumstances, gets a lot more free hits, has 1000 times better mobility and map pressure.
There's a reason at comp level a lot of ppl swap out spirit for blight.
Blight gets looped, Spirit doesn't. I've only seen one comp person play Blight, that was fingerguns and he seemed to be missing a lot of swings due to Blight's poor turning.
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@WiiFitTrainer said:
Some of reworked maps have nearly no hooks in some areas, and if you use the one in the area it's basically impossible to down and hook another survivor in the same area. This is especially true in map corners.
This could be it, the reworked maps.
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@gibblywibblywoo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2035918#Comment_2035918
Probably because he's aware that thats only at the top level of play which an absolutely miniscule amount of players actually play at, even less in actual public matches.
If he believed that were the case altogether he wouldn't be playing and winning with Wraith and Oni as often as he does on stream. And I'd say he's up there with Otz as the most impartial public figure in this community in regards to balance.
But these guys sit and play DBD all day every day. They're the equivalent of these strong survivor groups, so them winning with low tier killers against average players game after game and going on huge winstreaks isn't a realistic experience for the average killer either. Heck I've seen all of these good players lose hard when they play low-mid tier.
In general though it's widely accepted that a number of killers have a cap to how good they perform.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2034933#Comment_2034933
That is also what the streamers say. The game is not balanced around top players and once the MMR stays, all the sweaty SWF groups will get the same killers over and over.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVqHp6DiT-w&ab_channel=ScottJund
I don't get Scott. He finally admits openly that Nurse & Spirit are the only 2 viable killers, and yet half the time he does more to influence killer nerfs than anyone else.
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dead hard or object of obsession
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Dont you see the irony of your point? You are bringing up Dowsey losing against a Top 1% SWF, and basically ignores why he had to go against such a team - because he waited for over 2 hours to get into a Lobby. First of all, this is obviously a MMR-flaw (no cutoff point to the top), but this also shows how rare those teams are.
Most of the time you dont need to play perfectly to win as Killer. Sometimes people act as if the Survivors can mess up the whole time while the Killer will lose after doing one little mistake, but this is wrong. I make quite a bunch of mistakes as Killer and still have decent Results. And I also have seen one Survivor messing up and the game going downhill from there.
Most of the time you are fine with basically every Killer against the usual Survivors. Only in competitive play you will need the strong Killers, but again, this games dont happen in your usual random queue.
And well, Nurse and Spirit are not really good examples for good gamedesign - one of them is a design failure who only gets balanced because not many people want to put effort into her and the other has basically non-existing counterplay to be good.
There are plenty of good swfs out there. Voice communication, good teamwork, and each survivor has thousands of hours experience on the game. On PC EU the game has a very dedicated playerbase and I see these teams all the time. If you're lucky they're just good, if you're unlucky they're really good and also toxic and only out to troll other players.
Do they have unique callouts for parts of the map like tournament teams? probably not, but they all know how to run a killer, killer weaknesses, which gens to hit first, how to waste the killers time, and how to split the map. Why should we have a situation where these groups are literally unbeatable? especially when so many of them are toxic and the kind of groups that put people off playing killer altogether, hence the queue times.
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@dezzmont said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2034867#Comment_2034867
>In a fighting game for example you both immediately and throughout the match have the chance to do damage to each other at any point.
You actually don't, and I think this is one of the key problems.
In fighting games advantage vs disadvantage states are a huge thing. In a fighting game it doesn't matter how well you play, if your in mid combo or are going up against a 50/50 how good you are doesn't matter, you got put in a position before that has you at your opponent's mercy and your just trying to mitigate damage at this point.
In DBD, such a absurdly huge goal of the game is to ensure the survivors never feel powerless. So you never get a situation where the survivor can't try something to get out of a bad situation, up until you lose the entire interaction anyway. Sometimes it takes a LOT of skill to pull this off, so at the mid game level DBD functions, but at high end the game breaks down because one side NEVER loses agency, and this is a critical game design flaw, because it means survivors never lose control over the game.
But that is just one part of this whole issue. The other core issue is that survivor base kit is just way stronger than killer base kit, and its stronger in ways you... sorta want but its not good once exploited. Case in point is "W meta." It sounds stupid because at the mid level it would be INSANE for survivors not to be able to get distance to start a chase with, but the issue is the math of gen time means once your really coordinated you can just... make it so killers literally can't win in a majority of maps and killer cases. The ones that ignore this tend to be so strong mobility wise chases don't even resemble anything like the base game.
In a fighting example here, imagine if 95% of the cast can't use throws or overheads, so if you crouchblock they never can open you up ever and the game is just inevitably going to go to timeout against them and as long as you jab them a tiny bit you always win. And then for that 5% of the cast they get to not only throw, but have a full screen projectile you can't jump over that requires you to perfect parry at a random point during the animation and which pierces blocks.
Loops might be a little too strong right now, but at least you can mindgame them. In the context of a loop and this 'blocking in a fighting game' example, most of the cast are what we would call 'honest' characters: They CAN open you up, its just hard and so they struggle but can still do absolutely fine at the top end. Its problematic in how it compounds with the killer basekit weakness overall, and how killers aren't rewarded enough for winning chases and how W is just so strong, but loops themselves are actually in a pretty ok spot.
The big issues I see facing DBD and general killer viability are:
Dropping chases/stealth isn't even a goal ever anymore, its just maximum time wasting using non-interactive systems.
Killers aren't rewarded for winning chases enough: Unhooks are too 'powerful' not in the sense they are too easy, but killer gets jack all if there is an unhook and they don't snowball, leading to a campy/sluggy meta.
Gen times can't get longer without the game getting VERY boring but killers just can't... spend time on anything without gens popping too fast. A killer winning a chase extremely fast at 45 seconds still probably loses because winning that chase doesn't stop 3 gens from popping.
The fixes here that would allow you to lower the power level of S tiers and make gameplay more diverse in general would be weird and controversial. Something like 'reverse bloodlust' where your faster OUT of chases so that you can still loop the killer and mindgame with em fine but if you just run over open ground they catch up to you absurdly fast, basekit 'Mini-pop', some way to block gens if your defending them, something that rewards the killer for hooks that don't result in kills or further downs, and something that slows the game down globally if the killer is playing well even if some gen jockey is just slamming gens would allow a lot of power to be moved OUT of killer in ways players often find annoying.
Like, if landing a hook is REALLY GOOD intrinsically, like say... permanently slowing that survivor's repair speed, suddenly you CAN do things like make the hook timer slow down if the killer is near and not in a chase, because the killer no longer NEEDS to either secure that kill or get a second down off that first hook, they already meaningfully got a tempo advantage off the hook. You now can meaningfully punish camping more than it already is. But in the current space the game is at you can't, and in fact all these anti-camping tools like BT actually force you to camp more because you need to be like 2 inches away from the hook to block a BT rescue or get something like a down out of it and you can't get NOTHING out of a hook because you gave up 3 gens for it.
Ultimately the killer needs more room to breath and 'slack' so that more killers are viable and super sweaty killer play not only isn't required, but no longer as rewarded. But in a reality where the survivors always have control and the killer only is rewarded with keeping people off gens now and forever, with no intermediate goals in the game, there is no room to do anything but sweat every chase, every down, every hook, every unhook.
And I get it, this all sounds crazy if your playing outside of a sweat squad and your a survivor main and never have seen one in action. I get it, the killer doesn't feel weak cuz when they win they REALLY WIN. This is a lot of abstract math nonsense as opposed to the in game experience where sometimes you do just get out played and blown out.
But that mathy nonsense matters a lot an affects the game a lot. For example, its BONKERS how much better slugging is tempo wise than hooks. Tempo wise your goal with hooking or slugging is to get survivors off hooks, but slugging is so insanely better at it: The time it takes to unhook a survivor is just the travel time to the hook, which means 2 survivors are 'incapacitated' and not doing gens for just that amount of time. Meanwhile it takes you time to not only go to the hook with the survivor, but pick em up and place them, so you lose time as a killer doing this to pressure others. If you slug, you don't lose any time, and it takes the survivor 30 seconds to get to the point they can instantly be picked up. So if you slug, you can pressure another survivor right away, one survivor isn't on gens for 30 seconds plus the time it takes for the third to reach them, and the third is off gens in the time it takes to reach them.
That is asinine, slugging should be a short term choice to instantly start another chase, but the fact its not just better but ridiculously superior to slug unless you think you can use the hook to gain tempo via camping/patrolling/whatever by sometimes over *two minutes* of survivor gen repair time is absurd. That is the kinda deep at the bedrock issue no one really thinks about that causes a lot of negativity for the killer and a lot of unfun killer strategies trying to mitigate this weakness of the hook for survivors.
Good post, this part stuck out for me
"In DBD, such a absurdly huge goal of the game is to ensure the survivors never feel powerless. So you never get a situation where the survivor can't try something to get out of a bad situation, up until you lose the entire interaction anyway. Sometimes it takes a LOT of skill to pull this off, so at the mid game level DBD functions, but at high end the game breaks down because one side NEVER loses agency, and this is a critical game design flaw, because it means survivors never lose control over the game."
It goes back to the argument about 360's with the last update.
Lets ignore whether they work or not for a moment, the fact is that survivors wanted another chance to evade the killer. They're caught out of position, they're in a dead zone, and they still want a way to fight back. The devs caved in and gave them it.
It's that kind of mentality which holds the game back and a development team terrified of its audience. It's not just about 360's, its that same mentality that invades every part of the game. Just the other day there was a thread about the twins and there was suggestions that it should be easier to kick the twins once they miss. So the idea being that if the killer misses the one attack it should be easy for the survivors to run up and completely negate the killers power for a while.
Tru3ta1ent has made a similar point about Deathslinger. People complain there's no counterplay and I completely understand and don't deny that Deathslinger isn't the most fun killer, but imagine you went against a killer with an aimbot who could never miss a shot, survivors want some kind of dodge mechanic, something where even if the killer was on point every time they still had a chance to evade.
I get it you want that agency all of the time when you play survivor but when you take a step back and look at the game as a whole and the 4 vs 1 mechanic, you realize that dead zones and caught out of position, no thats it. You're meant to be hit and you should be hit, there should be no second chance.
I think devs should stop the "every survivor for himself" attitude. It made sense kind of with the old hatch because it was always to play for but now there's no point because if you don't work as a team and do the gens then you're all likely to die anyway. Make the survivors feel like more of a team, reward dead survivors for the team escaping so that people don't feel as crappy when they're tunneled/camped.
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@remoirel said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2033905#Comment_2033905
holding W is how you play against PH though. Waste as much time as possible holding W instead of trying to loop because all that happens there is he traps you at a loop until he finally gets a ranged down on you.
I don't blame the survivors for playing like that, my point is it was incredibly boring for me and I can't imagine it was much fun for them either.
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@UnentitledBunnyMan said:
Do u even main bubba or Billy?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2034884#Comment_2034884
Yeah try use chainsaw only on an indoor map lol. Billy is joke now. If u use Billy and u don't M1 u can never hit a survivor in a loop with a pallet in it. Why do u use Billy since u M1? If u have to spend 120 seconds to down a survivor then your killer is just bad. On lots of loops billy is just as bad as trapper. Just played a game with red ranks and I only got 3 hooks as Billy because I refuse to M1 and they 4 escape. If I was using bubba I'm sure I can at least hook 9 and never M1. Btw I hit rank 1 as Billy in 2017 and I believe he is still worse than buffed bubba in looping with his old addons.
If you refuse to m1 that's on you. If Billy could have every hit be an instadown that would be a little imbalanced don't you think? you catch survivors out of position, or in a dead zone they create and then you can start instadowning. This was the exact problem with his add ons before it allowed every hit to be an instadown, killers aren't designed in that way.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2034071#Comment_2034071
Nurse and spirit are the only problematic killers at the moment because you can’t Balance them like the rest of the cast
If we want every killer balanced how do we make trapper as good as nurse?
You can't. Therefore you buff killers in general, Nurse needs a full rework, and when killers in general are in a much better spot you can then do things with Spirits phasing.
On the survivor side you would do something like scotts idea because the imbalance has always been a lack of communication.
Of course all this requires time and effort and I can't see any major overhauls to DBD at this point in its life.
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We’re seeing years of complaints about the balance and high level play brought out into the open. Everything thats being exposed with MMR is what the top players have said since 2016.
It’s ok though, I’m sure the designers will take a look at their spreadsheets and disagree. Then they’ll scratch their heads when killer numbers drop even further once MMR is brought in. They sure as hell won’t be making any major balance changes so I would encourage people not to get their hopes up as you will only be severely disappointed.
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@rglarson13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2034918#Comment_2034918
If the exact same tactics that work on Trapper don't also work on Spirit (or any other killer), then that killer is OP.
Basically, any killer that can't be dealt with with a "Hold W" strategy is considered OP.
If a survivor has to use their brain, or if the standard stack of DS+Unbreakable+Dead Hard+Spine Chill isn't enough to let the survivors walk out of the exit gates, that killer is OP.
Killers like Spirit are hard to loop indefinitely, so a single survivor can't use the standard strategies to waste the killer's time while the others do gens, so that killer is obviously OP.
A general rule of thumb that seems to apply is “if a dropped pallet doesn’t guarantee me 100% safety then the killer is OP”
This is what happens when players have been coddled by the developers for so long.
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@MadLordJack said:
It didn't solve the problem of losing to predrop-and-W. In fact, it heavily inflated it. Because apparently skilled survivors just don't even play the game.
Lol it was horrible. You never know how much you miss greedy, big headed survivors that try to extend every loop and save every pallet until you go against teams that drop every pallet safely. As Clown it was so dull. Its just a question of whether you can destroy all the pallets before the survivors do all the gens. The game is firmly in survivors control at that point.
Then I play Pyramidhead and every single chase becomes hold W, while the survivors split across gens. If this happens I feel like my options become play Nurse, Spirit or Billy or quit the game. Everyone talks about switching to Spirit but I’m confident she’s getting gutted soon anyway. Billys whole catch up potential depends on map too. So Nurse or nothing?
Even the mighty Freddy with his 75% killrate becomes useless when survivors predrop pallets.
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How is Spirit op exactly? And how is Ghostface too weak? I mean he has weaknesses sure but he’s nowhere near Trapper or Clown levels of weak.
If Spirit gets nerfed then Nurse will be the only viable killer in the game against experienced swf. That would be the saddest thing, especially when survivors want to stop lobby dodging, Some people literally want to be unbeatable in this game.
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@AChaoticKiller said:
dude if a teams knows that all they need to do against twins is use lockers twins would be the worst killer in the game as she is only good because of her snowball sprees which are entirely negated by lockers.
Well Twins have been the hardest to judge because I’m new to them but I’ve won every single game with a 4k so far, they seem incredibly strong.
I should have added that my list is for public games. So thats average survivors, to extremely good sweaty teams. As far as I’m aware your average public squads will co-ordinate the gens but they don’t often pull off co-ordinated tactics against the killers as well. Not like a tournament level squad would do.
Dowseys experience seems to back this up. 800+ kills, 1 escape? And then 1 hook vs an actual tournament swuad with a strategy.
If we were to rate these killers for a truly competitive level then all would be in low, Spirit in mid, and Nurse in high.
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Billy is the better killer. The ability to cross the map is huge and keeps enormous pressure on survivors. Then theres the fact that its so easy to pallet stun LF while hes doing the chainsaw dash that it kinda ruins him but you cant do it to billy like that.
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@chadbeastofprey said:
this singular screenshot proves it!
You can tell this guy never touches killer, because otherwise you’d be wondering why op posted this screenshot when we all know we see it every game anyway
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Because she would be junk if they didn’t?
Killers like Blight, Billy etc can all get hits easily without using their power. Nurse can not.
The basic attacks rule needs to go btw for a lot of perks, knock out and surge being 2 examples.
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@dezzmont said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2034155#Comment_2034155
That isn't how tiers work. At all.
Even if you think every killer can be viable in high end play (spoilers, they can't) that doesn't mean every character is the same tier. Tiers are there to show you the relative power discrepancy between options and how they generally fare on the competitive level, how much control you as a player have over the game.
Tiers are in some ways over-simplifications, but they aren't 'incorrect' just because its possible to get good at a low tier. And sometimes it ISN'T possible to get good at a low tier. Its quite common in fighting games for example for some parts of the roster to just... not work and no matter how much you practice em they never can do well.
Generally what makes a high tier a high tier and separates it from the mid tier is their tools are versatile and consistent. What separates a mid tier from a low tier is that mid tiers are generally competitively viable and will see success with a good player, and what separates a low tier from a bottom tier is that they are functional.
DBD has a problem where its viable character list is exclusively at its high tier, and worse, they also completely break the game. This indicates its less a problem with 'we need more high tier killers' and more 'Holy ######### the game's base mechanics need a rework because 95% of the cast can't DO anything using the base mechanics and so the only viable characters completely ignore them."
So ideally we don't get more high tiers and Spirit and Nurse are nerfed... after the base game is reworked so killers don't default lose pretty much every interaction that is based on core gameplay. There are some deep structural flaws in how DBD plays as a game that are fairly subtle and pernicious that are really worming their way into the spotlight as more and more people get good at the game and are more aware of them and utilize them. DBD is kinda low key 'balancing through obscurity' and now that the ways you can force a win trivially as a survivor are becoming more known by even the casual playerbase its just... all you see.
The problem has always been the base mechanics but a lot of survivors don’t want tk admit this because it hurts their egos.
In a fighting game for example you both immediately and throughout the match have the chance to do damage to each other at any point.
In DBD once a trial starts survivors can jump on their objective immediately and start putting charges into the generators. For killers you see a survivor, you chase for a hit and...pallet stun, safe pallet so break and continue chase, go for a hit, pallet stun and break the pallet. You switch to a new target go for the hit and pallet stun, safe pallet so need to break, and rinse and repeat.
At the highest level you see survivors stop being greedy at pallets and actually play them safer. The pallets keep a good chunk of the killers at bay while the team hits away at the gens. Sure the game gets easier for killer once resources have been worn down a bit but by then you’re playing catch up. This isnt even factoring in how strong some windows can be.
Then you look at tournaments, Hexy’s being a good example.
Nurse - goes through pallets
Spirit - Goes around pallets
Hag - teleports on top of survivors
Pyramid - shoots through pallets
It’s no wonder these were the 4 most used killers in the tournament whereas almost nobody wanted to play any of the other killers and in the finals/semi-finals only 1 person chose to play Freddy despite survivors insisting he’s extremely OP.
This post isn’t meant to rag on survivors, I play survivor too, but beating a lot of killers isnt a huge feat. The pallets are designed to protect you, the chases are designed that the killer has to wait for you to make a mistake before they can get a hit. Whether you win or lose just depends on what the other survivors do while you’re in a chase. When their on gens you see how quickly 3 will pop in first chase. The problem with the games balance is that many people don’t do gens when they play survivor they just waste so much time doing anything but gens.
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@Withered8 said:
Blight is debatable stronger than spirit, so no we are not lacking in s tier killers. We are lacking in skillful killers.
Stop drinking the kool aid. Blight is junk and to compare him to Spirit is ridiculous
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what kind of lag? little lag spikes? odd little bit of teleportation? yeah I've been having that the past week or two. Never had it previously.
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@glitchboi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2033917#Comment_2033917
It's odd considering I skipped to the beginning-middle of his latest VOD and 5 seconds in he throws a yellow bottle :P
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2034032#Comment_2034032
You'd be surprised, actually.
What's your point? I've watched lots of his clown games the past week, in some games he rarely uses them. It's mostly just 1 bottle used for getting across the map after a hook. Sometimes he uses them at loops, but the slowdown bottles with add ons worked at the same loops previously anyway.
I'll tell you what's even funnier, in one game he got destroyed as Clown. Dead Hard to pallets played a big part of it. He would have literally been better with old clown and his exhaustion bottles than new clown and the antidotes he rarely used or needed on that map.
The rework was a failure and is in some ways a nerf, almost everyone agrees but the people balancing the game are so disconnected from the playerbase Almo actually considers this update a success. Think about that.
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@OBX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2034168#Comment_2034168
Liking to play that way or not liking to play that was is a personal choice. THIS is the game the devs have given all of us that play killer. When I first started playing on PS4 release I didn’t even know what a slug is..... We had old ruin, we had brand new ps4 survivors that weren’t optimal so we could just play the game.
things have changed over the years on both sides and killers were backed into a corner and told to “get gud” when gen times were brought up. As a direct result the best slowdown a killer has is to slug. It’s unfortunate and not terribly fun, but the devs design the game perks/balance etc.
I say all this to emphasize that if slugging isn’t appealing to “you” then don’t do it, but understand that versus better players it’s just not advantageous to go for 10-12 hooks with how the devs have made the game atm.
we all know this so anyone that choses to play for hooks can’t really complain too much because it’s not the most efficient way atm. Not taking shots, just pointing it out.
They keep nerfing slugging and it letting survivors heal up, or not getting 12 hooks only hurts your score anyway. If you slugged all 4 then 1 hooked it's brutal killer tops.
Basically the scoring system doesn't work with how the game balance works at a high level. The game expects you to chase-hit-hit-hook-chase-hit-hit-hook-chase-hit-hit-hook but this isn't feasible at the high level. You also lose points for using instadowns etc
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@Kellie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2034154#Comment_2034154
You seem like a very logical person from your previous posts, but you can't be serious right now.
Just come out and say what you really mean.
You seem like someone who only or predominantly plays survivor from your previous posts. I've had games won and a free kobe allows them to reset the game or escape via hatch. You have to wait and watch them for 60 seconds on hook sometimes because kobes are more frequent than you would expect.
Imagine if the killer had a 4% chance for a survivor to teleport onto a hook, I'm sure that would be balanced too right?
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@BrokenSouI said:
Seriously....? Learn to not swing as soon as you get up on them for a hit and they're injured 😂😂😂. Instead of complaining about an over rated perk. Maybe focus on getting better at the game.
Why is this forum filled with ignorance?
Have you never heard of dead hard for distance? or do they not use that yet in rank 15?
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@OBX said:
I’m no fan of tru3, but when he hopped on nurse, everything was fine. The game just needs a roster with more killers that can play at the upper levels. If tru3 played nurse every match he’d be just fine, but who wants to play the same killer over and over
He also slugged which he doesn't like doing.
I noticed that Tru3 wasn't having fun at high MMR vs good survivors, bad maps, and your regular killers.
Then he switches to slugging Nurse, and you can tell the survivors didn't have fun.
I think that's how it's going to be. Fun for one side only depending on the killer.
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Sure why not. The game is designed first and foremost for survivors so I don't see the issue
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Inner strength is great. It's a fast heal and works towards removing NOED.
Stridor is a good perk on Spirit or Nurse, you may want it if you intend to play one of those. On other killers it's nice due to how bad sounds are post-2018 but you'll likely never take it over other perks.
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@JPA said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2034079#Comment_2034079
Lol I was watching his stream for about 40 minutes during that queue. Did he actually lose the game when he finally got one? That's actually quite funny as it must have been his first loss on Twins.
I guess the MMR kind of worked there, despite the ridiculous 2 hour queue...
He got wrecked hard.
Funny thing is against them solo they would still be good survivors, but the kind of co-ordination they pulled off to hit the Twins the way they did isn't ever going to happen without voice communication. Meanwhile the devs insist it barely makes a difference.
And everyone wonders why killers dodge 4 man groups.
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I agree I've had it reset games before. When it works it's a free deliverance, no perk slot required.
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We've seen how bad the balance is and now all of the content creators that tried to downplay it and brag about streaks and how easy killer was are now realizing the writing is on the wall and saying it straight - you literally can not beat the best teams with any killer aside from 2 - Nurse and Spirit, and even Spirit isn't reliable.
The question is will Behaviour and the guys with their spreadsheets go to painstaking lengths to balance the game and fix all of the crippling issues? to bring 20+ killers up to a level where they can compete with the competitive survivor teams? will they fix the awful, heavily one sided maps? will they fix all of the stacked meta perks? or will they just slap in a half-baked MMR system, throw out a new cosmetic collection and call it a day?
If history has taught us anything....
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To be honest I think a lot of the damage was done by the map (which they picked). Badham is terrible and somehow somebody signed off on this garbage 3 times since 2017.
But yeah this is reflective of what top MMR will be like. They all used the map fairly well for the most part, 4 dead hards as expected. Comparing this to the dowsey vid, sure a competitive team is top, top MMR but thats after a 2 hour queue and with a very unique situation given his Twins streak. For the majority of people reaching the upper limit this is kind of what MMR will be like.
Also lmfao at that Dowsey video. "SWF doesn't provide much of an advantage" - The DBD developers. Sure it doesn't, I'm sure 4 solos, or even a 2swf+2swf would pull off the same tactics. Sure they would. Totally not them making excuses to avoid balancing the game.
I did notice all the incredibly good survivors in tru3's stream today. I also noticed how almost every single one of them used Dead Hard. Totally a bad perk though, the survivors on here have assured me it's not that good. The high level players only use it for the memes.
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Because survivors complain lol they HATE Nurse and Spirit so much. The only reason the Nurse complaints have subsided is because you barely see Nurses anymore. Wait till MMR is on and the complaints will skyrocket.
Survivors wanted Pyramidhead and Freddy nerfed, deathslinger too when none of these are viable at the highest level. They have the devs wrapped around their fingers since they're paying the bills which is why we end up with non top-tier killers nerfed even harder.
"but but teh killrates!!"
The game is balanced around bad survivors or survivors that just want to goof around. All the killers seem quite competitive, tryhard sweatlords but the amount of survivors I see doing nothing or goofing off is ridiculous. Wait till you get those games where everyone wants to do the objective and you see how unbalanced the game is. The one benefit of MMR would be if it put all the good survivors together so the game could be rebalanced but we have seen twice now that the MMR does not do that and is incapable of that. 2 red ranks, a green rank and a rank 19 vs a rank 1 tryhard killer. Killer gets the kills and devs just see the endgame stats and leave the balance as it is.
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2033967#Comment_2033967
I answered absurdity with more absurdity but it obviusly flew over your head. Whoever has such amount of problems with DH really needs to git gud because its not that strong OR you can wait until the MMR gets active and puts you lot against Survivors more suited to your level of gudness. I reckon the later will take less time and requires less self-examination.
It's not good, literally one of the most picked perks by the top players but ok....I guess they choose it for the memes.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2033978#Comment_2033978
Scott kinda puts it the best ive seen
Itd take way to much work to make a unbalanced game like this to be good enough for a mmr system imo. Its gonna be no big surprise the highest mmr will be just nurse spirit nurse spirit nurse spirit. And i honestly doubt thatll ever be fixed unless this game gets some giant overhaul.
It's the truth that survivors don't want to hear because their ego would be bruised - when your swf defeats any killer other than the top 2 over and over and over again it's not because you're pro players, it's because the killers just simply don't have the power to take out a good team.
Meanwhile the devs are nerfing killers below those two. Pyramid recently and now Freddy. They're nerfing killers that are already not viablel at the highest level. They don't even seem to understand why or how freddy is getting so many kills, they just look at the stats and nerf, end of story.
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@Kilmeran said:
@Dizzy1096 Luckily, I have Home Sweet Home: Survive to screw around in if it ever releases, Evil Dead: The Game potentially in 2021, and Overwatch 2 next year. So, when DbD pisses me off enough (which likely isn't too far off), I can just make it a memory.
All of these asymmetrical horror games have turned out to be lackluster. We need a real developer to take a stab at it, someone with the financial backing and design experience to make it work.
That said if any come along where one of the strongest things you can do in the game is more involving than just holding the W key like in DBD it's probably worth making the switch.
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I got a merciless yesterday and no achievement. Probably bugged like everything else in this game.
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@HectorBrando said:
DH has counters, play Myers or Ghostface if its such a huge problem for you.
Or as someone else has already said, git gud.
Play Myers to counter Dead Hard. This rank 20 who clearly doesn't understand the game telling others to git gud lmao
Let me guess, you bait it out all the time? when David decides to use it in the middle of a dead zone?
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@Kilmeran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2033922#Comment_2033922
Under that same token, maybe the MMR system is needed then so the stats that the Devs worship like a religion can finally show killers as they are, and they can finally see what we've been trying to tell them.
You would hope so and I have heard a lot of people share that hope but honestly I think the designers have clocked out at this point. The game will be milked its final few years and little will change.
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Focus on the tiers, not the horizontal placement - I didn't put any thought into that
S tier = Actually OP
High = Has a chance against the sweat teams either in ability or snowball potential
Mid = Whole variety of killers here. I probably should have split it high-mid and low-mid, but mid is basically killers who are good for your normal games, pretty balanced, but will fall apart against a solid SWF or survivors who know how to exploit their weaknesses well.
Low = An uphill struggle. Even your regular games may be sweaty if the survivors stick to the gens.
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If you saw tru3's stream today you can see this in action.
"maybe tru3 just sucks"
Eh watch the survivors he went against and the maps he's on. All of the killers crippling weaknesses were brought to light. It's no different to what we see in tournaments where supposedly unstoppable killers like Freddy are last to get picked like the fat kid in football. It's Nurse or bust. Maybe Spirit but the rest are pretty junk at the top level.
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It's ironic you use an Otzdarva video to prove your point, if you've seen him going for the 50 winstreak with Clown the past week he barely uses the bottles himself.
They can be useful in some situations but overall the Clown update fixes none of his weaknesses that have plagued him for years and he was hardly terrible in chase before so it's not like these were an essential update. Most people tend to agree the rework was a huge flop and even Otz has struggled to make clown work, over 5k hours and he's having to hard camp, tunnel and rely on the pure luck of devour hope to make him work.
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Remember these are the developers who brought you such amazing ideas as Decisive Strike, Mettle of Man, infinite loops, full gen BNPs, first down moris. People seem to assume if something is in the game its fine but I don't see why it's so hard to acknowledge that the developers have made a lot of really, really bad decisions over the years.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
Personally I've been loving it on everyone except Pyramid Head. Apparently my 60 game winstreak proved too much for MMR and now everyone just holds w, m1, and makes out with gens like their life depends on it. everyone else? it's been great.
My experience was the same. Since they started recording MMR I've probably played PH the most and put more effort into him. It showed, the games were sweaty but the worst part is literally every survivor held W as much as possible, along with swf splitting across the map on gens.
There really needs to be more of a discussion about high level play in this game because for all the hate spirit, freddy, PH get by survivors who say they're OP and take no skill, you're literally just holding forwards in your games to waste as much time as possible. I don't care if these games are balanced they must be the most boring games I've ever had since I started playing DBD and I've gone against forever legion builds before. Every single chase just hold W as much as possible, if that's how DBD will be then I might as well quit now because that's boring as hell.
Competitive games are fun at a high level because the mechanics are fun. This does not apply to DBD, the mechanics and strategies of the game are not fun at a high level.
I've seen others play and once again we're seeing a reflection of tournaments where most of the killers just fall flat and you need to sweat your butt off to get any kills. This just pushes people to slugging Nurse and then it's the surviors who have no fun. DBD is really not ready for MMR.
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I think they’re fed up of survivors complaining so they want this killer to be almost completely useless. Maybe he will receive a slight buff over the months but the days of having even half-decent killers are long gone.