Dino7281
Dino7281
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@LordSturm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2561155#Comment_2561155
nah I'm saying hook STAGES, so if you down everyone in the first 30 seconds and hook them all, that's 4 hooks but that's 12 hook stages, you see?
so if you hook 10 people, that's 2 kills, and if you facecamp 2 guys out of the game, that's also 2 kills, but it's 6 hook stages and therefore worse than 10 hook stages
Oh got it, so you can from different sides.
He wants to punish killers that don't farm everyone and secure kill with camping.
You want to reward killer that actually did good, but just didn't manage to finish survivors.
@LordSturm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2561155#Comment_2561155
also the seperate MMR for killers is really annoying because of how they decided if you had 1 good killer then every killer should start in astronomically high MMR and you have to go through a bunch of matches to get them back to a playable level that is actually appropriate to your skill
Yeah, you got high MMR from start, so even if you are not that good your games will be hard, but it is definetly better in long run, then just 1 MMR for all killers.
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I don't know about best. I had few really good games, where they just played really well and went for protective hits. Thing is, they didn't use map offering, didn't have items, they weren't even SWF, so I really like that game, because it was just clash of skill.
My worst are probably with Legion. I had games where I just wasn't able to get more than 1 hit with Frenzy. When they new someone else is there, then they camped pallet and stunned me after hit, so I wasn't able to see or hit anyone else and if they were in deadzone they just tried to loop and spin, because I just wasn't in range for any more hits. Yeah, 3 hooks total that game.
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@LordSturm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2561119#Comment_2561119
i could see this if it was hook STAGES, so if you get 8 hooks, everyone hooked twice, it's not the same as a game where you just afk, which it currently is
As I said before, that system is bad and force killers into babysitting survivors, which I just don't like. Survivors don't need to do it anymore. They can just escape after 5 minutes, so why should killer do it?
It would fix my loop hole for lowering MMR on some killers tho, where I just play for dead hook everyone, show them I can kill them to assert some dominance and then let them leave.
That's why I like separate MMR for killers. I can create killers with high MMR when I want hard games for training and I can have easy games when I just wanna chill and play with meme builds.
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@LordSturm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2561108#Comment_2561108
so are you saying that with most 2Ks, the killer SHOULD theoretically have no change or a small change?
That's comment from Dev Community Manager. So it should be correct.
Problem is we don't know what counts as better and equal. Just 1 MMR difference is better / worse, or 100 is still equal? It probably scales based on difference, that's how I would do it at least.
So yeah, it should be either 0, or small changes. Thing is, if you have 2k avarage, then by their logic is where you are supposed to be, so it would be dumb to change your MMR for it, right?
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@R2k said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2561108#Comment_2561108
Killer MMR should be based on hooks. It will solve majority of complaints. And Survivors MMR should be on badge results (pips).
It will force killers to play more interesting way and survivors to be better.
Yeah no.
Simple reasons -> kills are same for all killers, number of hooks is not same. You have killers way better with getting hooks, then you have Hag. I usually don't get over 8 hooks with her, just because I am not in control who will get on hook -> you step into my trap, you dead.
Survivors could also lower your MMR by dying on first hook, which is just stupid.
Another reason why number of hooks is bad idea. Do you really want to force killers into farming hooks on last survivors? Isn't better just finish the game and play next?
Your system force babysitting survivors. Oh no, you ######### up and let me down 3 survivors near basement and now I am forced to leave and let them recover, if I want to gain MMR?
Your idea is just bad.
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My friends didn't really have issue with that.
Well, I forced all of them do tutorials and played several custom games to give them tips what to do and what not to do. Tried 1 on 1 chases to learn basics.
Main issue was just insane grind. I think it is worse for killers, because you can get meta build on survivors from free survivors, but on killers, you have to buy several DLCs and spend millions of BP, just so you can spend more millions to play killer you actually want to play.
So you need insane amount of BP on both sides, but you also need money, when you want to play killers.
If you wanna actually play (4 good perks as survivor), something friendly -> Kindred, We Are gonna live forever, We'll make it and Dead Hard is really good path imo.
You need to actually level only David for it and that build is solid. So you need around 1,6 million BP to get on level 50, at that point you should have all those perks on tier III. You should try to use cakes etc. to help them reach this fast.
It's way worse for killers tho.
Some generic build you can use on any killer -> BBQ, Pop, Enduring, Bamboozle seems quite friendly to new killers that don't know how to chase.
So you need to buy:
Bubba DLC and Clown DLC.
Spend 900K on billy, 1M on Bubba, 1,2M on Clown and then 1,6 on killer you want, where you might need to spend more, because you will not get all perks to tier III when you are unlucky.
Noob killer experience is really not any better than survivor and as killer, you are alone, so you don't have anyone to carry you and that experience can be really bad when you face toxic survivors.
It will get little better when Surge becomes Free for all. Then I would suggest: BBQ, Whispers, Surge and maybe Sloppy? It really depends on killer tho, when you can use their teachables.
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You have explained killer MMR here:
@Peanits said:
It would depend on the ratings of the Survivors you've killed.
- If you and the Survivors all have the exact same rating, your rating wouldn't change.
- If the Survivors that you killed have a higher rating than you, you gain more rating.
- If the Survivors that you killed have a lower rating than you, you gain less rating.
- If the Survivors that escaped you have a higher rating than you, you lose less rating.
- If the Survivors that escaped you have a lower rating than you, you lose more rating.
- Hatch escapes are a null (it's as if that Survivor was never in that match, you nether gain nor lose rating from them)
So when you kill 2/4 Survivors, your rating change is the sum of each 1v1 matchup. I'll use some made up numbers as an example here:
- Kill "better" Survivor: +20
- Kill "equal" Survivor: +10
- "Equal" Survivor escapes: -10
- "Better" Survivor escapes: -5
So in this case, 20 + 10 - 10 - 5 would leave you net positive with a +15 gain.
This is a simplified version, of course. The difference in ratings is also important (e.g. Killing a way better Survivor rewards way more, while Killing a slightly better Survivor rewards only slightly more.) It's not a single fixed bonus.
(Again, please don't read too much into those exact numbers, they're not at all accurate, this is just an insanely simplified version for the sake of explaining how it works.)
Hopefully that clears it up a little.
I think survivor MMR should be affected by team results -> how many gens they did, how many escapes they had and game duration. You know, this is team game, not 1v1...
Killer MMR is good, but it works only if survivor MMR is correct.
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@Ellwood said:
This is the response.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ABXXIIZWPQD6/screenshot-20211013-224252.png
Absolutely nothing for spending my valuable time & money in this game. #Ripped Off
Valuable time? For one challenge, really?
And this one is not even hard.
If it failed complete challenge like kill all survivors in basement in single Trial, then sure. That is hard to do, but this is not.
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You have to learn that some maps can't be played just running around hooking survivors.
So we have maps that you need to:
Azarov's Resting Place -> choose one half of the map + middle gen and never leave.
Sanctum of Wrath -> again, choose one half + middle gen.
Raccoon City Police Station -> some as above, one side + middle gen.
The Underground Complex -> don't bother defending top gen.
Dead Dawg Saloon -> again, it is usually better to let them finish top gen and setup 3-gen behind shack / hangman, where you can get huge deadzone.
Groaning Storehouse -> you have two gens in corners of the map, that are really far. So it is often better to ignore those too.
On most maps, you will have gens that are really close (your 3-gen) and you usually wanna defend that area a lot against good survivors. Then you have gens with big distance from other gens and those you usually want to let survivors repair. You can defend it with Ruin tho.
You have maps where you can get away with just chasing whoever you see, if you have good enough killer for it.
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Isn't just Racoon City map the main problem, not Wraith?
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@NomiNomad said:
You know Sluzzy, I still find Wraith one of the easiest killers to go against... I've even faced against ones with this exact (or very near exact) build!
But, if I'm able to consistently beat something so overpowered, what does that make me?
Am... I overpowered?
oh no
Oh, we will need to nerf you.
+100 ping will teach you a lesson.
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@Pixel_BoomBot said:
I would change it where:
- You are granted the Undetectable status effect whenever a generator is powered for 8/12/16 seconds.
or
- You are granted the Undetectable status effect whenever you hook a survivor for 10/12/14 seconds.
or
- You are granted the Undetectable status effect whenever you down a survivor for 10/14/18 seconds.
After gen is powered and down is not really good imo.
What about 14 seconds on the start of the game and after each hook? That might be fun to use with Lethal Pursuer for early down and try to snowball with BBQ.
I don't think that would be OP, but it would be way more interesting than current Bubba only version.
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@MrCalac123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2559817#Comment_2559817
He had like 2 busted addons that needed nerfs and that's all
You have aura reading addon and what is second? Silent bell?
@bjorksnas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2560953#Comment_2560953
I didn't say it was small enough to not have an impact but I did say he needs something to make him slightly harder to use / slightly less effective since his current playstyle is too beginner friendly and doesn't require much other than brute force
I have played around 10 games on PTB and it definetly has big impact. Uncloaking hits are quite unreliable after that nerf and he got limited on number of loops he can use power to get a hit -> so basic m1 killer without power there.
His lunge was most fun thing about him and Wraith definetly has good enough counter-play already and wasn't nowhere near top tier killers.
I agree with addon nerf, that was just too good overall.
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@Matthew_Ong said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2560035#Comment_2560035
I dont have those perks and I used to run kindred but I swapped it out , not every game will have a facecamping killer so I stick with my normal perks but I just feel like BHVR should do something about the ones that has because it just ruins the fun, plus sometimes even when i run kindred someone will still come and save which results in snowballing
They said that they are working on it, but they also don't want to nerf proxy camping, because that should be a thing, because of 3-gen.
So it is quite hard to come up with good idea to nerf only face-camping and will not be abused by survivors. I think there was attempt with longer duration, or stopped progress (not sure which was it now), when close to hook, but it didn't end well. Survivors tried to bring killers close to that survivor on purpose.
Also face-camping should be a thing, when all gens are done. You know, it is kinda only objective killer has to defend at that point and when there is gate close, it would be free save, if he left that area.
Face-camping is not an issue for SWF, when everyone know that it is happening, so they will just do gen asap, but that doesn't work with at least 1 soloQ player.
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I have all achievements and I started it with killer adepts, all in red ranks. I really didn't want it to be changed before, because you know, it was hard to get, so I was happy to have it.
But after Grade system change, it just easy on everyone after each reset, so 4k might be better and would make more sense, when compared to survivor adept.
But yeah, adept is just not interesting achievement to have anymore. I don't think there is any hard killer achievement now, so I would like some new. There are still some hard achievements for survivors, well just 2 are hard and few are big grind.
Evil Incarnate might be only hard achievement left for killers.
I think some killer challenges might be used as achievements. Well, mainly from early tomes, new tomes are quite easy for killers imo.
I would like to see achievement something like:
Basement tree
Kill all survivors in basement in single Trial.
That was ######### hard to do.
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@MrCalac123 said:
No Killer needs any nerfs besides Nurse and maaaaybe Blight's best addons. Majority of Killers are weak, and Survivors need many nerfs to their best perks and items. Maps also favor Survivor majority of the time.
I would rather see buffs to weak killers / perks, then nerfs too good ones.
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I would agree with range buff, but definetly not movement speed increase. There would be just nothing killer can do to stop your sabo, because you would gain lot of time with this movement speed, so it wouldn't really take much skill to use it. You wouldn't have to guess where he will go, you just run around him.
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Imagine wanting reworks and nerfs instead learning how to play against them...
Both have counter-play and I love to see both of them against me, because you can have really good chases against them.
It's not hard to get 4 escape against Wraith, if you use pallets and windows good enough. He just has no power in some loops, mainly shack. Easy to take protective hits against too. Flashlights / Flashbang are pain for him too.
Maybe try to watch games Oracle vs Wraith? You can learn a lot of tricks there. Best is probably keep vaulting pallets, if he is cloaked -> he can't destroy that pallet.
Bubba again -> pallets, windows AND lockers. Learn how to time locker escape against him. It's not that hard and you can do it every time to deny his power. Pallet stuns are hard to time, but it can be done, if you have balls big enough to wait a little. Main thing, use windows to force him m1. You usually don't get 4 escape against Bubba, because it's close to impossible to save, so last down is just dead.
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@xTCxGR8Milenko said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2559339#Comment_2559339
Make it so the entity unhooks the survivor if the killer is too close for too long and they lose a hook/point against that survivor they camp at? Have deductions for just sitting around? Idk, still think it was worth having a discussion on it.
That could be easily abused by forcing killer to loop around the hook and if range would be too small, then you will just stand 8 meters away instead, or keep moving around.
It would be next level BM, just stand under hook and keep downing + hooking survivor over and over again.
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BBQ has limits, that's why I don't think it is that good as some people try to claim.
They can be too close (probably your case), they can be inside locker, they can hide with perks and they can also hide behind gens.
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@adam1233467 said:
Why they nerfed wraith? omg, devs seriously want us to play only meta killers 🙄
I can understand that Addon, but definetly not basekit.
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Unless they fix sound volume of some survivors (Jeff, Bill, Jane) I need iron will.
I really don't wanna be heard across the map whenever I am injured.
If you nerf Iron WIll, then you will actually have survivor meta. You are going to see a lot of Ace players.
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I like Otz's version more.
Offering chance:
80% for killer
80% for SoloQ
60% for 2-man SWF
40% for 3-man SWF
20% for 4-man SWF
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Twins are fine, they already got nerfed before and that's enough for me.
I don't think there needs to be any nerfs, I would rather see buffs to weak killers and perks, so there is some variety in high MMR.
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@jesterkind said:
Those comments both seem fair- my only reason for thinking of the range is that it makes it a lot more map-dependant then I think it really needs to be. As is, it's almost definitely going to hit a generator on, say, The Game, but it'll be a lot less useful on one of the larger maps.
Even so, just making it work on special attacks would be pretty substantial, so maybe best to test that part first.
Thing is: it also works as info perk now, kinda Whispers on gens whenever you down survivor. It would work better as slow-down perk, but worse as info perk with bigger range.
But it's going to be free for all perk, so I think it should be possible to use it on any killer. That's why I think Special attack buff is more needed.
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I think SBMM system is better than Rank system.
Issue with actual experience is not problem of the SBMM, but overall game instead.
There need to be buffs to weak killers and weak perks, so we get some variety even in high MMR. I would also buff soloQ.
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I would change it that whenever any survivor gets healed (even self-care) at least 32 meters away from you, that survivor will scream and get Oblivious for 40 seconds.
This would need some testing, because it might be too strong on some fast killers, because survivors just would not be able to recover. So there might be cool-down needed, maybe like 40 seconds?
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Nah, they have problem to balance 1v4. 2v8 will ba camping contest at it's finest.
I would like to see 1v1 instead. That is already a thing with created rules that works.
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Thing is: it is still possible to use lunge, but there is just no room for error and you need to be really close on survivor for lunge after uncloaking and it is worse for hits around loops, because you get less distance.
But I don't think it is needed. He has good enough counter-play and he is going to suffer from boon totems a lot.
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Hell no, I hate map offerings, almost never use them, so I definetly don't want more of them in my inventory.
If you do this, then you will get less add-ons instead, so you will have your killer-sided map, but you will not be able to use add-ons you want.
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I would just make it work for Special attacks too. It's already good perk otherwise for M1 killers.
It's actually also info perk, which is good and works with Ruin.
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@JohnWeak said:
Ruin should not be a hex totem, just a normal perk, maybe with 150%/175% regression speed but that cannot be cleansed and could not be equipped with corrupt for exemple.
Damn, that would be broken. It would be broken even as 100%. Good luck trying to win against 3-gen tactic.
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They have problem to balance even basic killers, this would make it way harder.
Right now, they can get away with releasing killer without any slow-down, because you can fix it with perks, but with your system, it just wouldn't be possible. Every killer would have to be either really fast for good 1v4, or have good enough slow-down.
Your Ruin / Pop etc., would just get replaced with No Way out, Noed
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@ASurvkillivorer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2555775#Comment_2555775
and that is a completely different thin than what Play Thing does. Having to perfectly know the distance from the person on the box and then slowly creep up for them to maybe not even be there is so far behind what Play Thing gives her. The ability to run at will to anyone on a box and for the person to have no chance to play it smart against her because they can't hear her.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2555804#Comment_2555804
I guarantee you it gets nerfed. If Undying got nerfed this will too. No the perk itself but the combo on Pig. Its way too strong.
It's really cute, that you think this is same power-level as Undying used to be...
Plaything is fine, you can actually just ignore it on most maps. You know that Plaything has backfire in form of not able to use any other Hexes, because those make Plaything worse. You might get away with one, so probably Retribution, or Thrill of the Hunt are best options.
It will also get worse, because of boon totems -> less Dull totems to spawn Plaything.
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@TeabaggingGhostface said:
I run it with face mask for funsies
Oh, you are evil. I have to try that...
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@Seraphor said:
SBMM doesn't "promote" anything, because gaining MMR isn't an objectively positive outcome, while 'gaining a pip' is.
MMR isn't a reward.
You will never know 'how far' your MMR will get. It's useless to try and track or game the system.
Motivation is the same as it has always been. Gain pips to rank/grade up. That uses the same emblem system we've always had.
At least it should be if people would stop worrying about MMR.
I got max grade in 3 days, have all achievemnt and all challenges. So to change that, I don't think there is motivation for veteran players to stay in high MMR. I have one killer in high MMR (survivor's playtime 3k avarage), when I wanna hard game, but I am not gonna let my other killers reach that level.
Like what should I do? Play for harder games, nah, too much stress. I just let survivors leave after I get them on dead hook. I tried to get as high as possible, but then I reliazed how much pain would be to grind max Grade again next month in high MMR, so I gave up on trying, because there is not reason for me to do it. Before I could worry about losing rank, but that is not a thing anymore.
I have seen lot of killers do this and because of that, their data on killers just isn't correct, if they want better data, they need to motivate players to actually try to reach high MMR.
It does promote it, you might not see MMR now, but you know how the system works and some people might care about it for whatever reason, so instead of trying to save and go on suicide mission against face-camping bubba / trickster etc., they will just leave.
I don't know about you, but I have seen that a lot lately and some of those saves would be easily possible imo.
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C at best, he will be forced to use zoning a lot, which is just boring and will suck for both sides. They failed to fix the issue and just made him less fun.
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Well, I mean, what about buffing other killers instead?
If you truly wantto see just variety, then this would fix it. Killers will be happy and you will see variety, when there will be more good killers. win win
People are saying he has broken add-ons, not really imo. He is just good killer with decent add-ons. He doesn't have nuclear option, best is Alchemist Ring, but that will not save bad Blight from losing the game inlike some other killer's add-ons.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2557058#Comment_2557058
You die/escape first. You reach the scoreboard and your score is tallied. Other players are still in the game. So you leave the game and queue into your net one.
10 minutes later the last player of your previous game leaves, you're halfway through your next game. Are you expecting your score to be retroactively adjusted?
Why not?
Changes in MMR are not that big to affect matchmaking by one game, so that doesn't matter.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2557045#Comment_2557045
That's the thing though. Your scores in all respects are calculated when you leave the game, via escape or death.
So if you escape first, then it cannot factor in who else died or escaped, at all, because it doesn't know yet, the game is still playing out.
You'd be forced to hold all players hostage until the very last player has left, before scores are calculated.
This is precisely the reason why it's calculated as a 1v1. It's not ideal, but it's an immutable fact as long as we're not holding players hostage to watch their team mates finish the game.
I am pretty sure it would be possible to just calculate it for everyone when game actually ends.
That's kinda same as you don't see killer perks till game ends. So I don't think this would be an issue.
Players can just leave, they will see grades as normal, you don't see MMR anyway.
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@FIzzbin said:
Simple MMR that would be the healthiest for the game should be based on something like this:
Survivor Team
1 escape = lose MMR
2 escapes = no change in MMR
3-4 escapes = gain MMR
Killer - based on hooks
Hooks mean actual hooks - not camping to second stage, or survivor suicide. Mori or kill by own hand counts as 1 hook
So face camping to 2k means 2 hooks - a loss
0-3 hooks = lose MMR
4-6 hooks = no change in MMR
7-10 hooks = gain MMR
11-12 hooks = gain double MMR
No, that's same as before for killer, I really don't wanna be forced to babysitting survivors.
Survivors in your system are not punished for playing fast as possible, why should be killer punished?
When I manage to slug everyone with Oni, I should get MMR for that.
You would really want to force me farm hooks on remaining survivors instead just finish the game and play next?
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2556490#Comment_2556490
It really should moderate it and take both into account.
For example lets say the best escape 'score' is +20 MMR, well a portion of that should reflect how the other survivors did.
Maybe something like: Up to 14 points for escaping, adjusted for how quickly you escaped and the relative MMR of the killer. +2 for each other survivor that also escapes whose MMR is lower than the killer, +1 if higher.
The only issue could be how and when it tallies up the results. If you escape first, then it'll award you 14 with nothing extra, because no others survivors have escaped... yet.
" If you escape first, then it'll award you 14 with nothing extra, because no others survivors have escaped... yet"
So it will be stand off till end of the collapse?
I wouldn't care if you escape first or last. I would take into account how many escaped and also if someone died, then I would track how many gens left. If they died with 0 gens left, then it's not big deal, but if he died on 4 gens left, then I would give them massive boost for it for escaping.
Hatch would be still 0 of course.
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I would be fine with escape / kill MMR, IF it was based on team results, not individual.
It's just dumb that I go on suicide mission to save a friend from face-camping and that results in MMR loss. It just promotes selfish playing.
MMR for killers would be good, but for that you have to use proper MMR for survivors.
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Reconnecting might work for survivors, but not for killer.
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Well, survivors have Dead hard, killers have pallets now. Balanced
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not really, it would work only on survivor that is not looking behind him and because it is only one way, you will get punished for it hard, so you can't really mindgame this.
It might work, if you would make another stairs to that new hole, and entry to underground would be under it. So you might be able to mindgame there.
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It's not really problem to find them, but problem is that it's not worth it to leave gens / chase for it, because they can just do it again.
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@LapisInfernalis said:
I just don't like that there are a lot of maps where you either can't dodge most times or you are totally in the open that he gets you before you get anywhere.
Well, then you have maps that are hell for Trickster and some fair maps for both.
You really don't wanna be Trickster on Lery's, or Racoon city.
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@Voodoo101 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2556162#Comment_2556162
But sometimes you need to challenge yourself. You say that you dont like it when survivors have offerings and items, but no doubt you have them, because they are part of the game. Its the same as being a survivor with the killer have perks to stop gens or down survivors with one hit. Its not nice either way, but it is the game and works both ways.
I know it is part of the game, but I don't like to use broken add-ons, or map offerings. I did that only for adepts and hard challenges.
It would be fine, if I knew it is coming, so I can show them my nuclear options too, but I really don't wanna use that each game.
Again my issue is not harder games, I would just want to see some feedback, so I can motivate myself to deal with it.
I don't know about others but visible MMR ratings would fix it for me, quite well, I can relate to this from Dota, so I am quite sure about it.