Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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@SweetTerror said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3504290#Comment_3504290
Exactly! I think that's one of the reasons why everyone decries for old Freddy again. He played in a way unlike any other killer, but instead of adjusting what was there they made him more in line of what is to be expected from every other killer.
freddy was really cool. he was nothing spectacular but his gameplay was funny. motion tracker just to go undetectable is a little bit like wraith with an item to counter undetectable. you can imagine how wraith vs 4 flashlights used to feel where you got continuously stunned out of cloak. you might be creating a bully simulator killer with that idea. Of course I am not saying it is bad idea but you know how dev go about creating some killer items to counter the power.
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there goes another killer that fed up health-states and endurance. shrug
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sounds like pharmacy perk.
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@yandere_gamer said:
If you mean the generator you kick has to regress to the equivalent of 50%, that means you would be waiting 180 seconds before the perk activates at the earliest it can. It would basically require bringing along regression perks to go along with it, such as call of brine or pop goes the weasel. And even with these you would still be waiting a long time, although I think this idea is a good one too. You would still have to hope however that no gen gets activated before you filled the progress bar up. I think that 180 seconds of charging the perk, only for 30 seconds of use, and then waiting for a generator to get done before you can use the perk again, is way too much waiting and not enough value, so maybe adjusting the numbers could make your idea more viable.
Free from your shackles, you are born anew and prepared to eliminate your creators.
Performing the Damage Generator Action on a generator compromises a generator. Only one generator may be compromised. Generator that are compromised are highlighted in yellow. Damaging another generator compromises the most recent damaged generator.
when survivors that repair the compromised generator up to a total of 75%/65%/50% generator progression. The generator no longer becomes compromised. killer is granted 5/7/10% haste effect and undetectable for 30 seconds.
Upon successful activation Machine Learning deactivates until the next generator is completed. -
@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3506916#Comment_3506916
But isn't the currect version of the add-on pointless to run? If Survivors know you are only coming when they hear you from directional sound and this addon just makes you hear using the power without directional sound, you know you have nothing to worry about. This add-on would then only work againts new Survivors.
that is what nerfs do. they make things that were once useful into pointless to use. that is why MFT posts are funny because they will make a perk that feels good to use into a perk that is not good to use.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3506444#Comment_3506444
I mean, I probably would just for giggles and custom game shenanigans
But there are also people saying buffing it's haste would be too OP and rn it's in a good spot (i don't see how being worst boon in the game is a "good" spot)
he is right. buffing % is like buffing machine learning from 7% to 10%. the problem of the perk is consistency. boon perks are not consistent because 24 meter radius. boon lack consistency to be effective perks.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3506503#Comment_3506503
I don't think that second sentence actually applies for what you mean
i think he means to say that if it buffs base-kit in a way that he does not like it, then it is busted.... I do not think there would be any good perks in the game left with that logic.
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@_Onyx_ said:
@Devil_hit11 you're aware that if you let her get a free hook instead of a hit +2 stacks of Condemned and your Tape breaking, you'll be hooked and then your Tape breaks anyway, meaning when you get unhooked you will gain 1.25+ stacks anyway when she Projects, which most likely will be instantly and be aimed back to the hook. This is where the whole idea of Condemn Immunity in post chase and post unhook is coming from. I have listed all the counterplay to her, but there are maps and rng tile spawns that really allow Onryõ to lazily eliminate a survivor with minimal effort and low risk of losing more than 2 gens, if that.
I wanna know where your argument against my idea is coming from tbh, is it bias because of playing as her and really not wanting her to change again? or are you just not looking at my idea from the perspective i'm highlighting? or something else?
let's say you lead a chase for 30 seconds and jump into a locker and you are on the hook for 45 seconds. this is 75 seconds of time across 3 players doing gens. for sadako to condemn you at 0 stacks to 7 stacks, you need 10 teleport's which each have 10 second cooldown which is 100 seconds. you are stalling the killer for 175 seconds. that is almost 3 minutes. 1vs1ing a killer for 3 minutes is long time in dbd. a killer that is tunneling condemn for 3 minutes should easily give a enough time for the team to complete all 5 gens. at the same time, I wonder why we are talking about being able to 1vs1 a killer in a 4vs1 game. this is like more exaggerate form of tunneling.
even if you die to tunneling condemn, the rest of your team could escape. the killer needs to get 3 or 4 kills to be victorious. the killer acquiring 1 kill is still a loss.
I wanna know where your argument against my idea is coming from tbh, is it bias because of playing as her and really not wanting her to change again? or are you just not looking at my idea from the perspective i'm highlighting? or something else?
I am just stating that other killer's have equal or stronger tunnelling capabilities then Sadako. your reducing the killer gameplay options and potentially making the ability worse in places when the killer is not tunneling.
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stealth killer have no heartbeat or terror radius. the visual UI is only terror radius and visual indicators. the perk single handily counters the main ability of those killers. that is why it got changed.
@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/385490/spine-chill-rework-fail
Honestly with how bots can always see stealth killers, might as well and show a red stain too and/or their auras as basekit while being chased (this ignores the undetectable status effect, just as bots do)
funny you mention that because there used to be a point in time where object of obsession would reveal stealth killers aura. this was before undetectable status effect was established mechanic.
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@Predated said:
Let me take you back to 2019. People are getting banned for making 3-gens practically impossible by using Ruin, Distressing, Thanatophobia(which also slowed down healing back then) and Sloppy Butcher, while playing Doctor.
The reason for their bans were due to basically holding the game hostage even though it was theoretically possible to finish the final generator within 1 hour. It was difficult and required getting rid of Ruin at all costs, but it was possible. I did this in customs with competitive friends of mine, and while we knew we would be able to coordinate to finish gens within 1 hour, we all would DC the moment we saw any Doctor force a 3-gen with Ruin.
Now, we have Skull Merchant being able to do the exact same thing that Doctor was able to do, and in fact, its even worse. Because generators back then were only 80 seconds, healing was much faster and toolboxes were also twice as strong.
So really, why is Skull Merchant still not altered? she's been out for longer than 3 months and hasnt recieved the revisitation that every killer and perk would recieve. People in the past had to sit out a ban for exploiting for doing something that was equally annoying. People excuse it as in-game mechanics, but so did people back in 2019.
I am not saying that people who play Slow Merchant should be banned (altho, forcing players to basically not play for longer than 45 minutes without ending the match on purpose makes me want to side with banning), but Skull Merchant should be disabled untill she's recieved a mini-rework that fixes her.
I am aware that devs are trying to figure out a generic fix on 3-gens, but depending on the map and spawn RNG, SM is capable of holding 5 generators consistently. The only way to fix 3-gens in a way that affects SM is to unlock an already finished gen every 5 minutes that no gens have been completed, and that would absolutely break the game on any other killer that is not Skull Merchant. So please, fix SM first.
i think your more describing forever freddy where people would bring swing chains, jump rope and pop+ruin+sloppy+thano to endless 3 gen the game. I think doctor's version was running distressing, hex:ruin, overcharge and unnerving presence. doctor had these add-on called order add-on that made his static charge build madness over time. the way it worked was that the closer you were in heartbeat, the more madness would build-up and order add-on increased the amount of static charge build-up. the result was that you could never cleanse ruin because the survivor would constantly go into tier 3 interrupt the totem cleanse. all you could do is work on gens that would constantly be affected by old hex:ruin skill-checks on top of the madness making skill-check harder and an unlimited source of overcharge skill-checks since doctor would just spend time in treatment mode walking around kicking gens 24/7 until server closes.
skull merchant is new old hostage doctor with shotgun speakers and that other grey add-on to regress gens.
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those perks are designed to make hooking as hard as possible. enforces slugging gameplay.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3506215#Comment_3506215
Instead of trying to fix slugging in a way that allows the killer to build more pressure when we want it but less when we don't want it, wouldn't it be way easier to just 1 hook spawn there?
They would solve the issue and not even create a new one at that. You might argue that camping is a possibility but how many killers have you seen camping the basement in the main building? And how many of them were actually successful? It is a spot that is quite easy to contest for the killer but also so far off from any of the other gens that the killer cannot defend them at the same time. Even the one on the outside can easily be done with them trying to camp the basement.
a lot of killer camp basement on badham. the map loops are not favourable killer so camping basement is one of the most consistent ways to win on that map. putting a hook there encourages camping to avoid the map design. that is my guess for why there is no hook there. they use basement as a form of rng for that map.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3506084#Comment_3506084
So you expect the killer to wait outside until the survivors are bored and come out themselves? And then what if they run back down there the moment you start chasing them? Some of us are not Nurse and Blight mains, which means that some of us can't end chases in 10 seconds.
But I guess it's fine because eventually they will have to do the other gens and there is no possible way they would make their way down there again. Because don't you know the preschool locks itself closed after the gen is done? Yeah, me neither. This is the same argument as back in the good old days with Boil Over on the RPD library. "Just down them before they get there, baby killer." I still find it hard to believe that people actually defend these things.
It wasn't fine back then and it's not fine now. The only question is how long it's going to take BHVR to do something about this.
i am not saying that slugging is well designed. in practice you should have bleed out risks for forcing the killer to slug but it is bvhr.
It wasn't fine back then and it's not fine now.
i don't think slugging was ever good for killer. the only two places where it is good for killer is when the killer is camping hooks and they get a slug near a hook or when entire team is put into the dying state. both of those cases are survivor playing poorly and very little to do with the killer. Otherwise, being slugged is not that much of threat. if anything it is reward because your not on a hook and your wasting the killer's time. that is also why twins is not popular killer because she is not time efficient at hooking but slugging is not that rewarding unless survivor messes up. I have no advice towards playing against this other than you will have an annoying match as killer.
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what if the perk worked like wiretap and blast mine where it has progress bar. you kick gens and once progress bar fills up, the perk activates then deactivates. once a generator is completed, the perk reactivates and you can refill progress bar to trigger it again. the progress bar could be something 50% progress on the generator.
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post translation: I play survivor badly, so please weaken the killer so I can escape playing badly.
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the clues in the name. it is to prevent survivors from performing stealth actions near gens...the counter is not hiding and yoyoing gens as the killer kicks gens.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3504881#Comment_3504881
And the solution to this issue would be so simple. Just have one fixed hook spawn down there when you get basement in shack. That would already be enough.
the solution is to slug players for 4 minutes. it is just that survivor can go down like 6 times and do gens around the area for free. if you waste too much time with that, the rest of the team can do gens. you can either play into slugging where if the team is efficient, you will likely lose all the gens but you will get 1 kill eventually or ignore the area entirely and give up the gen.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3505540#Comment_3505540
15 seconds seems a little fast, it may as well be instant.
I would make it at least 60 seconds. You are after all regaining a Scourge hook, it's not just any hook it's a valuable perk resource that should be depleted. This would basically be the Undying of Scourge perks.
Alternatively... actually make it a 'trick'. Have it in line with other Pig perks as being a 'game' the survivor chooses to play. In addition to the auras revealed 12m around a Scourge Hook, if a survivor does successfully sabotage a Scourge Hook while you're carrying someone, that survivor has their aura revealed for around 30-45 seconds.
hangman trick was like 10 second to repair a broken hook and still nobody used it. it is already been tested to be very bad perk with a pointless effect.
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I still don't feel like this version is worth using because BBQ exists. If i want to fill in gap of BBQ, I would just run wesker's awaken awareness perk which reveals survivors within 20 meters of carrying distance. most of the time where your carrying a survivor, you want to hook them.
this perk almost encourages opposite. it encourages picking up the survivor, looking around and dropping them. it is like slugging perk but there exists a perk that does that job better. Infectious fright. While infectious fright does not work map-wide, if a survivor is 50+ meters and you see them, you cannot do anything with that information for the majority of killers.
I cannot speak for other killers, but my suggestion for me to use this perk would be to make perk work all the time. Aura's of survivors are revealed in 8/9/10 meter radius when near a scourge hook. that would be unique effect that other aura perks cannot replace.
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@Mockingjay_S451 said:
How in the WORLD is a survivor body blocking a killer? 🤣 A killer can just hit the survivor.
Reportable body blocking is when a killer and or another survivor body blocks a survivor in place as there is nothing they can do to get out of that situation.
Teammate body blocks (aka protection hits) are encouraged and there are even perks that only activate by taking a protection hit for another person.
I can’t believe you have been reporting teammates for taking protection hits. The poor devs. 🙈
bodyblocking as killer is very unfun.
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@_Onyx_ said:
@Devil_hit11 Other killers can tunnel from the get go because they have to play the hook/camp/tunnel game which if played badly or at the wrong time will just lose them the match trying to get one kill. She can do that much quicker, ignoring the hook game and going straight for a quick kill.
Because giving Onryõ a hook from Healthy is insane to even consider, aside from Tombstone Myers (coz that is an instant kill, not progress towards a kill).
The locker play is only a valid counter when you're injured, holding a Tape and being chased. To do it while Healthy and with no stacks of Condemned is insanity.
Other killers can tunnel from the get go because they have to play the hook/camp/tunnel game which if played badly or at the wrong time will just lose them the match trying to get one kill.
you can force sadako to play the same game as other killers by jumping into a locker.
The locker play is only a valid counter when you're injured, holding a Tape and being chased. To do it while Healthy and with no stacks of Condemned is insanity.
it is valid play all game especially in early game because being condemn at the early stages of the game is more threatening then being condemn when 2 gens are remaining. you can take risk in early game as long you understand that you are taking a risk towards tunneling and accept that you might be required to do a 5 gen chase to potentially escape.
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@_Onyx_ said:
@Devil_hit11 Giving her a free hook instantly in a match is not a good counter lol
And the complaint is based off of an abusable aspect, she can kill you before 1 or 2 gens are completed, in an extreme example. Without ever having to waste time picking up and hooking (which btw takes 2 mins at least to achieve, ignoring the rescues and tunnels etc etc) you can be killed without ever being hooked very early in a match. So yeah, this is a 1v1 argument, but it's valid because there are builds that can be used to make getting that Condemned down much easier. So instead of making a post saying that I would prefer those perks and add-ons be looked at (coz that's ridiculous) the logical and easier change is making Sadako's power have some sort of situational immunity to prevent the lazy kills.
And for arguments sake, here are the counter plays that the community and myself have discovered so far against Onryõ:
- Hide near a TV or repair a Gen near a TV at the start until the TVs turn on and grab it instantly (if done quick enough you can actually have the Tape in hand as the Projection finishes which prevents any Condemned stacks).
- Don't get too greedy or impatient with Generators, if you suspect her to come near your gen while you hold a Tape, be cautious and hide or run early to make her chase not worth committing to.
- Loop safely vs her, if you not getting hit means dropping a strong pallet early, do it.
- Run to the safer tiles as priority if you aren't a strong looper.
- When putting away a Tape, try to find a TV that's OFF to put it in. And then find an ON TV immediately to grab a Tape and prevent Condemned via Projection. (You cannot grab a Tape from an OFF TV so this is why this tip is important!)
And one final tip is if you are on your final hook state, stop caring about grabbing Tapes. You're dead regardless, so you may as well just glue yourself to a Generator and then if she commits to you, play safe in loops and loop like hell to stay alive as long as you can to help your team win!
And the complaint is based off of an abusable aspect, she can kill you before 1 or 2 gens are completed, in an extreme example.
so? other killer can do same. it is not abusing mechanic. the killer is choosing to use the condemn mechanic for tunneling purposes.
Giving her a free hook instantly in a match is not a good counter lol
why is it not good counter? you loop safely and you stay near lockers when your about to be hit. this preserves your tape and forces sadako to pull you out of a locker resulting in her having to engage in the hook mechanic or slug mechanic of the game. survivors that are slugged or hooked do not build condemn.
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why can't survivor just get good vs instant down. it is not like being instant down is a big deal considering instant down only means that your injured and will go down in 1 hit. that sounds like typical soloq survivor experience. playing injured the entire trial.
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@BillToLast said:
As an example, let's say you're playing Huntress with her best addons and a meta build against the survivors who also brought the strongest stuff they can, with the best toolboxes and meta builds on everyone.
Huntress is considered a very strong character and both teams have brought the best stuff they can.
Yet, if the survivors are of the same skill as you, you are practically guaranteed to lose in this situation. Unless they make huge mistakes, you probably won't even get 2 kills, if any at all.
In Community Cups sponsored by BHVR, survivors had very restricted loadouts: no matching perks, no matching skins, no matching items and only up to yellow quality.
Whoever makes the rules of the tournaments recognizes that the game is very survivor sided and requires placing restrictions on the survivors. And yet, survivors still win vast majority of tournament matches (with 3+ people escaping).
would you like them to give huntress instant wind-up hatchets or buff iri head? that might make her viable against that level.
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@Sava18 said:
Nah leave it dead. I'd rather god validation dh than old IW. Rn IW is fine in a mft build, old OW just gained value out of nowhere. Probably top 5 worst designed perks of all time.
i dislike old IW because of how it promoted hold-w gameplay with wall blockers. it made mindgames on killer a risky gamble.
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your complaining about killer tunneling. something that..... every other killer can do with hook stages. a possible counter is entering a locker so that sadako does not m1 to break the tape otherwise you need loop entire game for all 5 gens to be completed. this type of post is 1vs1 post.
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yes nerf defining aspect of hag.... which is camping hooks and 3 gens. hag is all about camping.... you nerf camping and hag becomes ineffective as a killer. it is like removing skull merchant ability to put drones at gens.
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@grandpa_general said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3504662#Comment_3504662
Medkits are nerfed too so there is also more of a reason not to use it besides survivors can still heal outside your terror radius unless on special occassions such as doctor or wesker with a big terror radius in jigsaw map or silent hill map.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3504714#Comment_3504714
That actually sounds really good. This would make this perk useful.
counters flashlights blinds at pallets. the perk was designed to counter instant-blinds flashlights back when that was a thing. if you have a global terror radius, you can counter toolboxes... but not on any every map.
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/386363/the-real-problem-with-gens
The problem is more on spawn logic than gen times themselves.
More often than not, survivors spawn in 2 clusters of 2, with a gen not even 2 feet away from either cluster, and the killer spawning on the opposite side of the map, facing the wall like a child on timeout.
This results in 2 gens that will be completed before you have a chance at starting a chase, and since you can only chase 1 survivor at a time, 3 others are allowed to progress the rest of the gens for pretty much free.
for the price of 1 chase, you're at 1 / 1.5 gens just because of faulty spawn logic.
They could fix this by forcing all survs to spawn together and in the furthest possible spawn from any gen in order to artificially increase the game time without touching the numbness of holding M1 on a gen.
survivor can still split up. the difference in time is marginal at best regardless of spawn logic. a perk that helps you against that is corrupt intervention but it does little against efficiency gen teams.
OP post is correct how gen times work. the increase of gen times simply means that survivor needs to loop longer while 3 other survivors m1 gens. difference between 1:48 seconds and 2:30 is not that big however the more time you increase, the more survivor needs more pallet resources because killer can potentially break all pallets on the map resulting less fun chase survivor gameplay.
that is kinda what gen slowdown meta more or less is. killer stack gen defence to break pallets so that they have a greater chance to catch survivors in dead zones because loops are generally favourable for survivors in most instances. survivors stack chase perks/second chance perks so that they can slow the killer momentum as much as possible to use said window and pallet resources. you can see this by large pick-rate of window of opportunity that highlights all pallets so that survivor can use the pallets in the most efficient way possible. the perks selected are the product of each others gameplay.
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@BlueHorkew said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3503861#Comment_3503861
Tombstone, really?
The add-on that most people agree needs to be nerfed or completly removed from the game because it makes balancing Myers an absolute nightmare?
I don't agree that condemned should be the main way Sadako should kill survivors, it promotes an horrible gameplay loop and it isn't even hard to pull off like it was before the rework.
Make condemned a slowdown like Pigs traps and she would be more a lot more fair for solos
I don't agree that condemned should be the main way Sadako should kill survivors, it promotes an horrible gameplay loop and it isn't even hard to pull off like it was before the rework.
it wasn't hard for people that main her and studied her gameplay loop. the mechanic was just not very.... present at basekit? I am not sure how to put it.
The add-on that most people agree needs to be nerfed or completly removed from the game because it makes balancing Myers an absolute nightmare?
subjective. some players like how he is with his canonical mori play-style. I think it is interesting but I am not sure how fair it is in its implementation to play against.
Make condemned a slowdown like Pigs traps and she would be more a lot more fair for solos
pig also consider not very strong because slowdown matters little when your chase capacities are not good. the mori is there for pig but it is not very convincing similar to old base-kit sadako. I think the curse is fair because sadako needs to hit you to remove tapes so she needs to outplay you in the chase as m1 and you have all control as survivor in the loops to succeed.
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@BlueHorkew said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3503796#Comment_3503796
So what?
Isn't condemned supposed to be a slowdown tool? I thought that was the point of this insta-kill mechanics.
If they are as reliable as condemned is now, people will optimize ways to abuse it and make the expirience horrible for everyone else.
So what does it matter that condemned will be easy to remove, you still get the free slowdown and treat.
it is like michael myer's tombstone add-on. it is not slowdown. it is slow consistent build-up of a mori that eventually kills you if you do not finish the game quick enough. for him its build-up buff. for her, it is slow nasty gradual debuff that kills you.
So what does it matter that condemned will be easy to remove, you still get the free slowdown and treat.
you lose all gens before condemn kills anyone.
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@UnavailableName said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3503811#Comment_3503811
Even using this once or twice in a trial is more than enough for the survivors to win the trial.
Everytime survivors use it = 30 to 1 minute extra chase, especiall if they use MFT.
So using it twice = 2 minutes extra chase for free for a single hook stage.
2 minutes is enough for the 2 other survivors to do 2 gens.
As the 3 firest gen are usually completed during your first chase, game is over.
That's how powerfull those perks are.
Same for MFT, granting 30 seconds of extra chase for free to any survivor using it = game over ggez as 30 seconds 3 or 4 times during a trial = 2 minutes, again 2 gens.
Even using this once or twice in a trial is more than enough for the survivors to win the trial.
i would not say so. survivors on average are not that good in to do that. at best its mild slowdown for the killer.
As the 3 firest gen are usually completed during your first chase, game is over.
I am aware of that. swf that use 4 adrenaline often do that. it is defining reason why adrenaline is so strong with extra health-states.
2 minutes is enough for the 2 other survivors to do 2 gens.
that is why killer often 3 gen to prevent large gen spread. makes it easier to defend gens. Not talking about the 50 minute skull merchant gameplay....
Same for MFT
depends skill-level of looping for the survivor. again average survivor does not run loops that well. that is why you can down them as killer even with MFT. at least I somehow manage to down survivors. I just don't chase the really strong loopers.... as killer.
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@UndeddJester said:
One of the more odd things I find about perks in DbD is outside of Vigil, there are basically no status recovery perks for Survivor.
Now granted you have to be careful, there are some status effects that if you build in counters, you can totally butcher certain killers/make broken combos. E.g. Ghostface dies if you screw up exposed effects, and exhausted/broken shouldn't ever be messed with, but there is potential for other statuses to be something survivors can combat.
There are a buttload of perks that go off the healing action, with various levels of usefulness, and typically their unique benefits tend to fall into camps of: -
- Faster healing speed in some form. E.g. Botany Knowledge, Noone Left Behind, Boon: Circle of Healing, Self Care, Autodiadect, We'll Make It, Desperate Measures, Solidarity, This Is Not Happening, We're Gonna Live Forever, Resurgence, Resilience.
- Temporary action related buff to self and/or healed ally. E.g. Better Than New, Teamwork: Collective Stealth, Renewal.
- Temporary positive status effect for self and/or healed ally. E.g Buckle Up, Made For This, Lucky Break, Teamwork: Power of Two, Soul Guard.
As you can see, there are A LOT of healing speed increasing perks... one could argue too many, as they are all competing for the same benefit... but none have any interactions with statuses...
It may be interesting to see is Survivor perks and item add ons related to status removal: -
- Grant blindness/oblivious status immunity/removal on perks when completing certain actions.
- Buff one of the numerous healing perks to bypass Mangled.
- Buff one those perks to disable haemorrhage for 60 seconds, or increase the speed of the Mending actions vs. Deep Wound.
- Perks/addons to grant immunity for 60s to certain statuses.
- Hell you could go nuts and make a torch addon that can remove blindness/oblivious from allies... it'd be dumb, but funny xD
Point is Survivor's don't really have much in regards to combat statuses, and having options to do so could see a little more diversity in healing perks choices if you REALLY don't want a certain effect, such as blind on a WoO build.
there is good reason for that. it is because certain powers use certain status effects. for example, a perk that makes you immune to status effects like Hindered could hard-counter clown's pink bottles and freddy snares. perks disabling main ability is an issue that wants to be avoided as it was a problem with trapper's traps with sabotage & small game. freddy grants oblivious when in dream world. being immune to oblivious could result in you hearing heartbeat of the killer. they want to avoid certain perks interacting with killer powers in an unintended way.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3503194#Comment_3503194
I don't agree.
I have found some use for it in the Endgame, but I hardly found it to be on the level of DS or OTR.
SB+FTP+Buckle up surpasses any anti-tunnel perk that this game has ever seen. a strong 4 man SWF could legit do all 5 gens with 0 hook states the entire game vs large majority of the cast if they loop well enough with gen efficiency. it is so simple that even strong soloq player can use it with bond/empathy. here's simple steps.
1) 99% sb
2) follow any survivor that get chased while looping until they go down
3) activate SB and activate FTP+Buckle up as killer is in attack recovery
4) Repeat steps 1-3 with a different survivor
5) heal survivor after broken wears off and do gens.
It is like fighting an endless amount of uncounterable dead hard and off the records/old BT's that never end. even decisive strike at its prime where it had no skill-check, activated on every single pick-up with 0 activation requirements and had no conspicuous actions was not this powerful because it only activated once. This just activates an endless amount of times as long at least one survivor has a health-state to trade. playing against this is like playing against 4 man bodyblocking swf the entire game. it is why a lot of player would sometimes use pyramid head's force penance perk to try counter this in comp. luckily killer rarely ever go against this side of the game. there would be no killer players playing if this is all you went against. the most you will get in soloq is someone using this once or twice, so it is not big deal unless team has big coordination.
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@BlueHorkew said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3503642#Comment_3503642
Its not easy. And all other killers show you the aura of their items as soon as you can interact with them.
No reason why plague, pinhead or pig work like that and Sadako doesn't.
With tapes easier to find and to get rid of condemmed then we see if she is OP or not.
I am just asking for info to the survivors instead of just nerfing to the ground.
I am just asking for info to the survivors instead of just nerfing to the ground.
I am saying that base-kit condemn will become too easy to optimize because you can deduce the best path to get a new tape and the best path to remove condemn. that type of change forces sadako to run iri-tape every game and it greatly weakens the condemn build-up. the passive teleportation condemn and removal of condemn is based off not knowing the best initial path to re-grab a tape. you are in essence asking to nerf the mechanic to the ground.
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@Nos37 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3503297#Comment_3503297
Collision is lost when you hit them, letting them drop the pallet anyway after you hit them.
Standing there and waiting won't work either. They'll wiggle free or a 3rd survivor will drop from the other side.
There's some tricks to avoid flashlight saves, yet the devs still gave killers Lightborn. Same with bodyblocks: Mad Grit and Starstruck.
Why can't the devs give killers a perk for this pallet business?
Even if there was a perk for it, why should the killer have to equip FOUR perks just to secure a hook?
what is suppose to be correct play is slugging people. not picking up and hooking people but have fun with 4 minute bleed out timers.
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the game is balanced around 4 perks. at one point, i did think about a perk where you get a random perk every 60 seconds so it is like slot-machine perk that just randomly rolls a perk for fun but ultimately the game is balanced around consistency and expectations.
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@humanbeing1704 said:
I also feel like solo queue killer in that game will be borderline unplayable
i think it is opposite. soloq survivor might become unplayable because if killer are all SWF, you might never win as survivor in soloq because now SWF killer might be too strong.
I can already picture killers finding one survivor and deleting them in 1 minute into the match then you can camp objectives and since there is 3 killer and 3 survivors, the survivor might not be able to progress any escape. if survivor do not progress the objective, then your heartbeat depletes and you start losing health passively. everyone only played the beta where everything was mostly solo but wait till you face 3 man killer SWF in that game is hyper-coordinated and plays every killer optimally.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3503429#Comment_3503429
I always think survivor' perks should work like that, stronger, but limited, like a resource.
self-care is designed to be an unlimited resource that is slow. it cannot be faster because second-chance spamming being too strong. you can spam self-care but only if you devote entire build towards healing to do so.
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@Nos37 said:
At endgame, I can maybe get 1 last hook. If it's not that survivor's final hook, then they're escaping. Nothing the killer can do about it.
That means I only have the trial to work with, before endgame. If I average only 3 hooks before gens are done whether I tunnel or not, I am encouraged to tunnel. May as well put all 3 of those hooks on 1 survivor. The alternative is 4 survivors t-bagging on their way out the door.
have you tried STBFL with 8 stacks or NOED? Rancor? those might help secure end game kills otherwise you need be high-tier killer to comeback in the end game with 4 people alive.
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@BlueHorkew said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3502906#Comment_3502906
If its an insta death mechanic and it wouldn't be that big of a deal i want it the same.
I am not trusting anyone to not run around for 60 seconds looking for a tv that is turned on
the condemn is already really easy to remove once you get a tape at base-kit. TV's spawn next to generators. after initial 70 seconds passes, at most 3 tv's will be turned off by projection with 4th TV has 15 second or less time to turn on. If you have trouble finding generators, felix has a perk called visionary that shows aura of gens and Deja vu also shows aura of gens... though you should already know where those spawn from playing vs other killers. Removing condemn and getting tape requires game-sense and understanding of generators spawn locations.
@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3502906#Comment_3502906
The problem ppl are having is finding one turned on. If Sadako is spamming her teleport every 10 seconds, she's constantly keeping the majority of the TVs on the map off. This leaves 2 or 3 TVs for you and your teammates to find and compete over.
the tape is preventative measure towards condemn. the analogy is bucket of water. you do not want bucket of water to overflow. you can only remove condemn if everyone has a tape and your team does not need to grab tapes. if you grab a tape and turn off a another tv, then grab another tape. the turning off on 3 TV'S means that your teammate will not be able to grab tapes. that is by design so you cannot remove condemn faster as a team compare how fast sadako can apply the curse. In some sense, you can reduce condemn but only few times per match. Sometimes you won't be able to reduce it at all if your team is consistently getting hit.
in practice, you want to prevent the bucket from overflowing. as the match drag's on, everyone will eventually be afflicted by the curse. this is to prevent you from countering the curse completely like PTB Singularity EMP's.
I think Sadako went from under-rated killer to over-rated killer. Sadako's chase power in chase is laughably bad and her base-kit stealth is not impressive whatsoever. If you want to make easier to remove condemn, her chase & stealth might need upgrades in my opinion. Sadako is still one dimensional similar to her old version. It is just that condemn mechanic is more universally effective on all maps and relies less on what survivors describe as "unfun" tactics like onepumpwilly 3 gen's or slugging.
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@Blueberry said:
I’ve been spamming her the last couple days and honestly like 95% of groups just don’t do her counter play at all. It’s making her artificially look stronger than she actually is.
Most groups either ignore tapes entirely until it’s too late or they spend the game running tapes back and forth immediately instead of what they should be doing which is just holding onto the tape and doing gens.
The groups that actually do her counter play properly make it a close game.
Lots of people also getting extra condemn just because they can’t loop a basic m1 killer well, but that’s a skill issue.
My only complaint is that the Iri Tape feels required, I wish they put that back to her base kit instead of requiring an addon as without it it’s too easy to remove condemn.
Most groups either ignore tapes entirely until it’s too late or they spend the game running tapes back and forth immediately instead of what they should be doing which is just holding onto the tape and doing gens.
that is the common behaviour i get as well. you get survivor just take a tape immediately and do tapes the entire game. it is amusing to watch.
Lots of people also getting extra condemn just because they can’t loop a basic m1 killer well, but that’s a skill issue.
that is why sadako will not get better stealth or have stronger invisibility mindgames that work against better players because default m1 killer is "too hard".
My only complaint is that the Iri Tape feels required, I wish they put that back to her base kit instead of requiring an addon as without it it’s too easy to remove condemn.
the irony behind that is if you thought she iri reliant now, it was way worse before the change... I don't feel like i am iri dependent with her but that is largely because my opponent is not playing well against the ability.
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@1ettuce said:
Your suggestions seem alright, could use some tweaking, but concepts seem good imo. Thing is though exhaustion perks in general are often built on the idea of giving big value for no skill or condition, which I don't like, but IMO means MFT shouldn't be "singled out" ig you could say. But I've had two ideas:
A. Removing the haste and exhaustion parts entirely, so the whole perk is just getting endurance when healing someone while healthy, which is still strong btw
B. Could completely rework the perk to give you SB after healing someone for a whole health state's worth uninterrupted (including the exhaustion), would be a kinda cool perk, and the uninterrupted is in there to prevent it from activating when you don't want it to or from activating it whenever you want with a 99d teammate
they rarely ever change the perk functionally because those perk ideas you have can become new perks. when they do not want survivor to use specific perk, they add drawbacks to make perk less attractive to use and make it less consistent.
what I would do to made for this more situational is add a condition that you need to be on death hook and injured to activate the perk. I think this would be enough for it to be less common.
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@BlightedDolphin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3502544#Comment_3502544
The problem though is that you can’t hit them even if they are still mid vault. It’s like as soon as their body crosses over the window, the swing will hit the window instead even though they are technically still in range.
i think this is latency. it is what happens with wesker's virulent bounds where you used to grab survivors on the other side of the vault. the survivor on their screen is already on other side but you as killer have latency and see them on other side a lot later.
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@supersonic853 said:
Yeah i dont get it. We are running up to a window and i know they dont get it even with a fast vault so i swing at their back as they go to jump over. And they just skip forward and run away. Sometimes my hit phasing. Resilence makes it look even worse from survivor perspective.
fast vaults are suppose to keep momentum meaning that once a survivor completes fast-vault, they are out of the range of an m1 swing but medium vaults do not keep momentum meaning that the killer can still hit the survivor on the other side of the vault after completing the medium vault. you need walk like 0.5 second away from window to not get hit. apparently somewhere down the line, they bugged the momentum on fast vaults and nobody noticed.
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@Vampwire said:
I used to main him for a while, and I can tell you from personal experience that he's as fun as the player decides they want him to be.
Hitting crazy shots through walls or loops? Pretty fun. Once you get good with it there's a lot of mind-games to be had. It takes genuine effort on both sides since smart survivors will start to read you while you start to read them. If you REALLY want to get crazy with him you can try using flicks from time to time. Basically impossible to react to and also extremely hard to pull off because the timing is crazy specific. But to be completely honest they're more for swag points than anything.
Torment also serves as a good tool for snowballing and pressure. Torment is something you usually want to save depending of a variety of scenarios.
Now lets go into how people actually play him. The boring way.
Survivor reaches loop, start power, does survivor vault/drop? if yes, shoot. if no, cancel power. Ez hit.
Literally no investment or skill expression. And like many people are sure to bring up, the insane tunneling. If I want to secure a kill all I would have to do is head back to the cage since it tells me exactly where they are. Even if it's first hook securing the second one for basically no time investment is just a net positive.
He can be a beast and I've had survivors tell me in end-game they had fun playing against the first way I described. But the glaring issue is his power doesn't have to be utilized in any engaging way. People are going to take the easier route. The best way to describe it is from this old dark souls skit: "Why does everyone keep backstabbing me?", "Cus it's easy. And it does a lotta damage". Universally this applies to any game ever. Why try so hard when I can just do one thing and get the same results?
Survivor reaches loop, start power, does survivor vault/drop? if yes, shoot. if no, cancel power. Ez hit.
Literally no investment or skill expression. And like many people are sure to bring up, the insane tunneling. If I want to secure a kill all I would have to do is head back to the cage since it tells me exactly where they are. Even if it's first hook securing the second one for basically no time investment is just a net positive.
i think cliche play with pyramid head to just walk to every pallet loop. draw a trail. if they do not leave trail, they get tormented, if you do leave trail then you might get hit because slowdown is not that significant. after your tormented, the pyramid head will just look to find a place to corner you. once your in a corner part of the map, you can just spam his ability 15+ times in a row. eventually survivor makes a mistake, you down them, you put them in a cage across the map.
Meghead see's a cage that spawns right next her. she unhooks you. as he cages, pyramid head is walking back to the cage. you get tunneled directly out of a cage and sometimes can go down immediately depending on cage location. you get hooked near a jungle gym or tile-set. the pyramid head now proxy camp the hook drawing trails around the hook. he might chase someone for a little bit but as soon as unhook happens, he goes back to the hook and tunnels you by cornering in the edge of the map.... and spams ability 15+ times until you go down.
rince and repeat until 2 people are dead, then you just need 1 hook to get 3k for the win.
the whole ability encourages farming survivors off hook/cages and tunneling people off cages/hooking along side proxy camping. I am not sure if i can even call this proxy camping... because it is almost like face-camping.... but face-camping 16 meters away from hooks/cages.....
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@TurboTOne said:
The Problem with decreasing the Time on the Pods is that by doing so you make Camping 3 Gens stronger.
I would rather see it have a bigger Slowdown as you also couldn't change the charge time because of the reason stated above.
Maybe give a bigger Hindered to Survivors charging up EMPs.
Or just give a Basekit Hindered for just having an EMP in your Hand in the first Place. That way Survivors can't use EMPs as much in Chase which is the most Fun Part about their Kit.
the irony is that he is underwhelming in anything but 3 gens at base-kit. so by weakening him, they made him only good at 3 gens.....
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i think he's ok now with new coup the grace. his evil within 3 is more relevant now as m1 killer. he is closer to a killer that becomes stronger as trial progresses.
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3502161#Comment_3502161
If you somehow get "slugged and camped" for 4 minutes and the gens aren't done... boy oh boy what is your team doing, this argument is invalid.
being forced to eat trough endurance is a lose lose situation, they get picked up, 10s of endurance, you hit them they get speed boost and make it to the next loop. you dont hit them, and they make it to the next loop either way. its the purest definition of a lose lose situation, theres no counterplay to it and you're forced to take another 20-30 second chase.
These kind of scenarios are extremely unhealthy and just discourage people from playing the killer role or forces them to gravitate towards Nurse, Blight, Spirit , Wesker , etc etc.
If you somehow get "slugged and camped" for 4 minutes and the gens aren't done... boy oh boy what is your team doing, this argument is invalid.
i am not saying slugging too prominent because average dbd survivor game has killer hooking more then slugging but if a killer does not hook and slugs entire game. eventually your bleed out timer will become lower and lower. if it reaches like 60 seconds remaining, a killer might choose to camp you to get the kill similar to how killer camp hooks. buckle up can save you in those situations without killer downing either of you.
it ts the purest definition of a lose lose situation, theres no counterplay to it and you're forced to take another 20-30 second chase.
I mean yeah. that is what strong second chance perks do. they make you waste time.
These kind of scenarios are extremely unhealthy and just discourage people from playing the killer role or forces them to gravitate towards Nurse, Blight, Spirit , Wesker , etc etc.
sure because those killers waste less time against second chance perks. they can re-down the survivor quickly.
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3502113#Comment_3502113
And if the killer is far away, you dont need endurance either...? You'd be better off with 10% haste to speed to the nearest gen or a safe spot to heal.
Stop warping the words, survivors consider perks to be good if they offer a second chance / erase a mistake. every single perk increases your chances at escaping, but 120 of those dont put the killer in a Lose-lose situation like current Buckle up does.
By all intents and purposes going for a pickup in the killers face is a *massive mistake* , a perk allowing you to make a *massive mistake* and get positive benefits from it , is not healthy.
By all intents and purposes going for a pickup in the killers face is a *massive mistake* , a perk allowing you to make a *massive mistake* and get positive benefits from it , is not healthy.
the killer is camping the slug. if the survivor has very little bleed out timer left, you will not be able to rescue them without buckle up and FTP.
the irony of second chance perks with lose/lose is that all second chance perks for survivor end up being allegedly countered by eating second chance and re-downing the survivor. I am not entirely sure if that is healthy but that is just how it currently works.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
I just noticed this in my games.
Killers are usually taking hit on them and then leaving for real players. I found this kinda weird.
because real players do gens and bots do 0 gens. so who cares if they're alive. bots are bronze 5 players.