Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
Honestly not sure how to feel about it. Ive been playing a lot of Killer recently but just havent come across people using Buckle Up and For The People.
From what Ive seen, mainly from other people using it on social media, it looks pretty strong.
buckle up+for the people is a representation of how 4 man swf can play vs m1 killers with body-blocking health-states. It is so funny because now soloq can abuse the strategy...
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497441#Comment_3497441
It's nowhere near as strong in practice as some are claiming it is in theory. Practice never works out the same as theory, survivors need to loop flawlessly and consistently throughout a chase to get the value out of MFT, while a Sprint Burst or a Dead Hard pays off in the second you use it. One wrong read, or one second caught on a corner of a loop, loses the chase.
3% Haste theoretically extends a chase by 20%. But for one thing, it entirely depends on the length of the chase as to whether or not that is impactful. 20% extra on a 5 second chase is 1 second, and it's highly situational as to whether or not that gives the survivors anything of value. But if that chase lasts for more than 15 seconds, then killer gets Bloodlust, which is 5% and outclasses MFT altogether. This serves as a hard cap on the value MFT can give you. You might get one extra loop out of it, which is essentially what every exhaustion perk has the potential to do when used correctly.
And that's the key point, using MFT correctly has a high skill floor, on par with being able to use a 99'd Sprint Burst mid-chase, and the survivors who can pull that off are going to out loop you anyway.
Like I said, MFT has given me no trouble at all. And on the odd times it has, I've been very clearly outplayed by the survivor, it's given them an edge, but it hasn't been the sole reason they've won.
MFT is no better than any Exhaustion perk, and survivors are allowed to get a half-decent perk every now and then. Shaking up the meta is a good thing.
2% haste would be extending a chase by around 13.3%, so you'd need to be chasing at least 8 seconds to gain any value out of it, while 1% extends a chase by a potential 6.6%, this is now requiring a chase of around 15 seconds to give the survivor one extra second, and 15 seconds is where Bloodlust kicks in. So effectively, 1% Haste is giving the survivor absolutely nothing.
I agree with your post. MFT is as good as survivor who uses it.I don't think the perk need change but some killer may dislike going against it so killer player should an option to run a consistent small bonus haste perk. The only consistent haste perk you can use now is pwyf but i am sure that @dbdthegame does not want to use that.
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@nars said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3498063#Comment_3498063
So they wont expect it. Survivors rely on the red stain as a warning, its why the moonwalk mindgames even work. If that warning is gone over time they'll learn not to need it and just play as efficiently as they do with red stain.
i don't think you understand what that red stain mechanic does.... for survivor. maybe the dev should really buff red stain on killers then maybe you will understand what it does for looping. there is reason why beast of prey has bloodlust 1 requirement.
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@Blueberry said:
It also seems like they have wall hacks when playing loops tbh
i still down the bots. i have seen people complain they cannot down bots. that is funny.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3498052#Comment_3498052
It is really hard to tell on those though. That's like, pinhead knowing where the box is because he knows where everyone spawned level of skill.
legit old sadako, you needed to do this to be successful at her. you needed to slug with her and tv TP, then once you build enough stacks on the survivor team from slugging then you need look at the map constantly to see when the player grabs the tape and if you understood how old mechanic works. if you grab a tape, the tape would passively build condemn so they would get the heartbeat.
the problem of course was... that your an m1 killer who has to down people to slug them and that if you ran ring drawing, people would heal once. see that you have add-on then never heal. The only time they would heal is to 99% their heal then use a med-kit to ignore add-on or use very popular circle of healing perk which unlocked the ability to self-care. so chasing was not viable for her, you had to like camp slug and use tv teleports to be tactical with her but survivor said that slugging sadako was unfun, so they changed her. the tape mechanic has been revised and her entire gameplay loop has radically changed.
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@Clockwork_Enigma said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497985#Comment_3497985
But that's not even fun to do for either side. Holding anything hostage is not good design, if you remember what happened with Twins.
the problem with twins is that there is no drawback to not doing it. you delete killer ability to pressure the map because of m1 killer problems. this is still a problem to this day for the twins. with sadako, she gets something out of it for you holding tapes and she can still use global passive of tp after hitting you a couple of times before you pick up another tape.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3498086#Comment_3498086
I will agree there is a subjective marker IF they are running those perks. However, an exception doesn't disprove the general rule. In 99% of cases it is objective.
What people find fun is subjective. However that is not what you're describing. The option on hook is, "do nothing". Anything, is objectively more fun than nothing. If there was any "realistic" play making to do on the hook "generally speaking" then I would agree with you.
Just because you don't agree doesn't mean you need to resort to insulting. I focus on the subject matter of the conversation and provide counter arguments, not insulting the other person.
i mean if you run 4 up the ante+slippery meat with 4 luck offering, you can make a play on hook by jumping off the hook but otherwise there is less gameplay on hooks then on slug's. I am not entirely sure why slugging is disliked. It is probably same reason that sadako condemn is disliked. it is just different gameplay. It is like survivor just want every killer to play same way. it should be opposite, every killer should feel different to play against. that makes it more interesting.
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@nars said:
disagree. Removing it would actually nerf killers. You can already hide the red stain anyways with moonwalk mindgames, this would remove said mindgames. Also the fact it shows where tp killers go is just for nurse, and lets not buff nurse.
how does that make any sense. the whole point of moon-walk mindgames is to hide your red glow so the survivor does not know where you are in the loop across the wall. removing red glow mindgames is like permanent red glow moonwalk from the killer. the loops with walls become a lot harder to loop as survivor.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497957#Comment_3497957
The only addon that needs changing is the green one that tells you when someone grabbed a tape. If they reworked that one to do something else it would be much harder for her to do a pure condemn style build because she has to keep track of a TON of stuff.
you can tell which is turned off by when TV aura goes from highlighted to teleport to turned off. mother comb is training wheel add-on. it helps you learn a particular skill with Sadako.
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@Ranch_Jello said:
The killers red stain in front of them has been there since the start, but in my opinion I feel like it is an outdated mechanic.
1. It hinders killer cosmetics in game. You wanna look cool? Well heres a giant red blob.
2. It goes through walls sometimes basically telling survivors where you are
3. It follows teleporting killers showing you exactly which way they teleport.
4. It removes the suprise scare factor that that I miss as survivor.
Maybe it should be added in a new gamemode or custom option in match settings for custom games. I'm curious on what everyone's thoughts are on this. You don't have to agree, just have fun with this discussion.
maybe but i think red stain is perhaps a base-kit mechanic for survivor to counter-act wall-hack aura reading at loops though I do not see any killers with that ability.
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rules are meant to be broken. the first part with new killer or new perks makes sense. the survivor part makes little sense. the survivors are just skins...
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holding tape hostage is the counter-play to sadako. the way you remove tapes is by m1 the survivor to knock it out of their hand or hooking the survivor.
I love new design for killer items. this is how killer item should work. they should introduce like a new gameplay loop for the survivor with the killer having input in decreasing the effectiveness of the counter. the tapes are like most well designed in killer-item in the game.
what a staggering difference is sadako's tapes vs items like nemesis vaccines and singularity emps...
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497268#Comment_3497268
Yes, it would be the proper balancing way, if a stronger version of a perk had a pre-requisite to make it work.
For example , Unbreakable is a 1 time pickup from slug that you can use anywhere on the map. Meanwhile boon exponential lets you pick yourself up unlimited times, BUT requires setting up a boon beforehand and being in the boon's radius - this is the correct way to have perk effect overlap.
On the other hand, you have the weaker WGLF that only provides endurance to the picked up IF you met the activation requirement OR Current Buckle up that provides endurance for BOTH the picked and the picker, with no activation requirement.
Another one is MFT providing a 3% Haste for essentially free, while Dark theory requires a boon and is range limited while providing 2% - this is the incorrect way to do perk effect overlaps.
the name we're gonna live forever seems to imply living forever. I think its meant to be anti-slugging perk to prevent bleed out. it seems like the purpose of this perk was changed at some point or omitted from the game. that is very likely why the perk overlaps. originally, WGLF was bloodpoint BP gain perk like BBQ. it still has unique functionality to heal people quickly while in injured state, but perhaps this effect would be better if it granted 100% healing speed upon picking up a slug like We'll make it. healing quickly on the floor is better done by Zarina's perk, For the people. WGLF is not that great of a perk. it is little bit too situational of a perk.
Game is designed around 100% speed, anything over that breaks the core game.
like killer bloodlust on some loops? small amounts of haste can potentially be fair. very large amount of consistent haste with 100% up-time can be too strong if unchecked.
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@Sadako_Best_Girl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497219#Comment_3497219
The thing is the so called "condemn playstyle" is her whole point, she sucks at chase but compensates by having the condemned mechanic and it's the reason why most of us Sadako mains have enjoyed her from the beginning despite the obvious lack of any meaningful chase potential.
Imo the solution is making her counters more intuitive and not gutting her current playstyle. I wouldn't even mind if the auras of TVs were visible from 32 meters or something, just let survivors know they have options.
that is cool idea. aren't killer belonging usually shown to the survivors? like pinhead box has global aura reading and pig jigsaw boxes have aura reading. maybe sadako's TV should be highlighted to the survivor. maybe this would help survivors to play vs ability. the tv are always next to gens but perhaps that is not intuitive enough. it would give every survivor a form of visionary on every gen. not sure if that is bad thing or good thing.
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I think it exists in the game to be anti-slugging perk where you can independently pick yourself up an indefinite amount of times. it just has very bad drawback to get that benefit. it is just that slugging for killer is not beneficial win condition at the moment. removing its drawback could cause some unfair situations for killer.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497236#Comment_3497236
I mean, Myers Tombstone is BS and should have been removed from the game years ago. What is your point? Using Tombstone as your main argument is really not the best way.
(And yes, it is a teamgame. Does not mean that mechanics which punish Solos more than SWFs (where I would at least know that I have capable teammates) are any good)
both are in the game so I imagine both will be staying.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497185#Comment_3497185
The problem is that even if you as that single Survivor in the game do everything correct, this does not mean that your teammates (which you have 0 control over in SoloQ) will do the same. And it really doesnt matter if you die or anyone else, an early 3v1 due to a condemned Kill means that the game is basically over.
Let alone that this playstyle of her ignores one of the core mechanics of the game - Hooks. Her Condemned-playstyle really needs to be looked at. I did only die once to Condemned since the Rework (and this was also really unlucky because I went to one TV to get rid of a tape which got snatched by a less condemned Survivor before and the next TV had Sadako appearing right in front of me..), but I have seen others die. And while doing everything correctly on my Part, I still get punished because of her unhealthy playstyle.
this does not mean that your teammates (which you have 0 control over in SoloQ) will do the same. And it really doesnt matter if you die or anyone else, an early 3v1 due to a condemned Kill means that the game is basically over.
the game is team game. are you expecting for you to win if your team plays bad? at what point does killer win then? should the killer ever win? this complaint could be also be attributed to michael myer's tombstone add-on's because your teammates can feed him stalk and you might be on receiving end of the instant kill. at least in sadako's case, it is your own fault for getting mori'd.
Let alone that this playstyle of her ignores one of the core mechanics of the game - Hooks. Her Condemned-playstyle really needs to be looked at. I did only die once to Condemned since the Rework (and this was also really unlucky because I went to one TV to get rid of a tape which got snatched by a less condemned Survivor before and the next TV had Sadako appearing right in front of me..)
The first part also applies to michael myer's tombstone add-on's. you only died once because the mechanic was non-threatening. your dying more now because it is threatening.
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497203#Comment_3497203
Its a perk made to counter another specific perk, its not "free, unconditional value" by the mere fact that if the killer doesn't bring an aura perk, you got a dead slot.
Your attempts at a "gotcha" moment are quite honestly lack luster, especially when I pointed out that distortion is a *counter perk* in the previous reply.
sure it is situational in the sense that not every game has aura perks but it still buffs the survivors base-kit in the way you describe as problematic design in your view. another aspect to talk about is that just because distortion is not proc does not make a dead perk because distortion gives information about the killers build. you can do specific actions because you know that said perks are not in play.
MFT is permanent boost to the survivor but the reward is limited to how well user uses the small boosts of speed to gain an advantage. it is still possible to win as killer for most killers. the chases are just slightly more difficult which is what the perk is design to do. makes chases slightly more difficult.
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497177#Comment_3497177
- Distortion is a "counter perk" , meaning it only comes into effect if the killer runs aura perks, otherwise your perk is equivalent to having brought nothing.
- even then , distortion only gets 3 uses, unless you're in the killers TR and can recharge tokens, but at that point its very likely you'll be seen either way.
Distortion has a pickrate in the last 28 days of about 7%
In comparison,
Windows 33%
Adren 27%
Resi 20%
MFT 19%
Please enlighten me how a perk that over half the time gets no value, and im sure you're aware of that, could be considered "off meta or second meta"
Please enlighten me how a perk that over half the time gets no value, and im sure you're aware of that, could be considered "off meta or second meta"
towards aura reading builds, it does following: "Point still remains, No perk should provide free, unconditional and permanent buffs to basekit.". so by your logic, distortion should be nerfed to not provide free, unconditional permanent buffs to base-kit towards aura reading builds. with your logic, every perk would be ineffective.
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@Phasmamain said:
She’s 100% better now. Sadly that’s mostly due to her power demolishing solo queue players similar to pinhead’s
Hopefully they can find a middle ground with her condemned and make it feel more fair while still being a mechanic that needs to be managed on the survivor end. Right now she gets so much reward for very little skill required
that sounds like a lot like Michael Myer's and his tombstone add-on's. lots of reward for little input. I still think it is not as bad because your input as survivor is looping well and not getting hit by not being out of position. I guess you can argue that you die too fast for too few m1 mistakes but you can look at that as high skill-floor for survivor to be successful.
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3496583#Comment_3496583
You've sucessfully identified the problem with current survivor meta, the perks provide a general buff , provide consistent value and come into effect every single game.
WGLF and distortion is the perfect example of a balanced perk, by doing alternative and risky actions you get value from the perk.
distortion is free value. you start with 3 tokens to block aura and you get tokens as you get chased in TR so for vast majority of killers, you can be immune to aura. there is only select few where it won't protect you like scratch mirror, black incense and few other specific ones. distortion is like near meta. it is off-meta or side-meta. whatever you want to call it. I think you just don't like playing vs current meta perks and that is completely fine.
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@Sava18 said:
Most people on this forum simply don't understand how good 3% MS is. It literally doesn't matter what killer it is either, 3% can make or break anything in this game easily. A blight flick that misses by half a meter is mft at work.
I have mained survivor for the last year and mft is just free.
It really is absurd to me how 90% of the this forum have 0 clue how good just the 3% of mft is, it's S tier just because of that. When I say 90% I mean the killers who attribute it to all their loses and the survivors who are too unaware to realize how good it is. Best survivor perk since OG CoH.
I think most people know how good haste is. my guess is that survivor that say it is not good are using the perk because they like the perk. problem is that killer should be able to counter it with their own haste if they wish to. there is no minor haste perk for killer to mitigate its effect and not many killer want to run any of current haste perks.
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3496481#Comment_3496481
His antiloop can basically guarantee a hit against most pallets in the game, except for the safest. It requires significant skill input from the Pinhead player, in predicting movement, putting down an unreactable portal, and dropping a chain from an angle that will guarantee the player is stuck until he can get the hit. A lot of very safe fillers and even tiles are entirely unsafe against a good Pinhead player, to include shack. Not to mention, his antiloop also doubles as a chase power as you can deny players a lot of "hold W" distance with chains.
It is by no means a "weak" antiloop. I would say it's even stronger than Clown and Doctor's antiloop.
my opinion is that he is noob-stomper that is weak vs good players. he dominates bad players. His portals are difficult for a new player to counter because they're unreactable. you have to mindgame them to dodge them and that is high skill-floor for the survivor. it's kinda like old unnerfed slinger and nurse put together. I find him a very fair killer to go against when playing survivor vs him.
The problem is that he's too fair for a killer and by that i mean his anti-loop is too weak. he doesn't get rewarded enough for landing his chains. I tend to dodge most of his chains, like 50% of them but a lot of chains that pinhead hits me with. I don't really get punished. my impression is that he's too weak vs hold-w. when pinhead opens his gateway, he moves at 92% so often you can get hit by his chains and just hold-w to next loop even though I played poorly vs ability. At loops, it depends distance and nature of loop whether you get punished or not. I think something is really underrated for him is his ability to counter pallet camping. when your hit by his chains, the survivor is put into the "walking state" which means that you cannot fast vault pallets. you can only slow vault them but this often does not matter because the chains often break on the environment or the survivor is too far away for you to capitalize on them. his anti-loop is mix bag for whether it gives rewards or not so I dislike playing him as a result. He is one of my favourite to go against as survivor but some my least favourite to play. I don't like playing killer that have this weird feeling of "your so close but no reward" gameplay. that is plain not fun for me as killer.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/385391/ftp-buckle-up-intended
It definitely needs to be removed. Its basically useless to below average in usefullness in solo queue. But as always SWF can abuse this to make the match completely miserable for the killer. And yet again, its yet another combo that a nurse blight or spirit won't care about because they'll just down you 5 seconds later anyway, whereas a trapper is going to be extra sad when it happens.
what about a killer that hard camp's slugs when a survivor has low bleed out timer? survivor's need to recover to 95% hp to pick them up. FTP allows you to heal them immediately but survivor do not want to go down for other teammates so buckle up solves that issue. it seems to be working as intended. Just another case of health-state body-blocking being too effective vs weaker killers.
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Assuming no one is taking tapes, and the Onryo teleports every time her TP is off cooldown:
everyone should always take tapes as soon as televisions are turned on after 30 second grace period. you can always grab tapes if you lose the tape but removing condemn is suppose to be a lot more tricky.
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@Blueberry said:
I personally would like her left how she is, the condemn play style from both sides feels unique and engaging as it puts a lot of multitasking and involvement with tapes which weren’t a thing prior. The times I see it appear overly strong is only when survivors ignore the tapes and get punished for not respecting the condemn, as they should.
Outside of the condemn build I think she’s really bad. If they for some reason nerfed her condemn build she would need massive buffs around everything else.
Still don’t understand why a stealth killer has a lullaby. It’s just silly.
The times I see it appear overly strong is only when survivors ignore the tapes and get punished for not respecting the condemn, as they should.
well it is design to be that way. its snowball-type power where if you can get an early enough mori, you can win the match but if everyone stays alive for long enough then you can escape. lullaby is there to prevent sadako being too good. I do well enough at base-kit to be fine as killer. sadako is definitely a killer that i will enjoy playing on a regular basis.
My only complaint is how reliant she is on Iri Tape for the condemn build against good survivors and I wish it was base kit. Being able to drop in any tv right next to you is just too fast and easy to be able to reliably build stacks if the players know what they’re doing.
I mean you can use iri-tape if you have enough BP. the add-on is currently legal to use. I think it is strong at the moment because survivor have not adapted to picking up the tape and adjusted to gameplay loop of the killer.
@GenJockeyNance said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3496867#Comment_3496867
I really agree with this whole statement. I've played as and against Onyro since the patch dropped.
As survivor, I haven't been condemned. At all. My teammates on the other hand, wait until they quite a few stacks built up before taking care of the tape so they usually die at either 4-5 gens. But I much prefer this Sadako over the old one, I absolutely detested the old Sadako best strat, slugdemn, it was so boring. I feel like this is more interactive if you become unglued from the gen momentarily to make sure you don't die. If you wait too long to grab one, it can be a gg from there - stay on top of the tapes.
As Sadako, I've played with the hook and condemn build. My build consists of hit and run, take a hook when I can, never slugdemn but aim for the condemn if possible. It requires me to do a lot of macro play such as keeping up with survivors who have tapes and punishing those who ignore my condemn and those are the ones who usually die at 4 gens when I'm Sadako. I've really been liking the pacing of the game with this strat and seeing how it all plays out. Chasing is usually a bad idea as she has no chase power (at least, I perform better with my strat above which involves little chasing). I do hooking as part of my condemn build to also build pressure through hook states so it gives me more to work with than just solely condemn.
At the moment, I feel like everyone is still getting used to the changes and how to counter her so she feels more powerful than she is. I enjoy playing Sadako a lot but the couple games I did have with survs who had the idea how to counter her, it was harder when they held onto a tape and played safer and when people figure this out, she will struggle a little more.
I hope the devs don't change her though, I really like this Sadako.
I much prefer this Sadako over the old one, I absolutely detested the old Sadako best strat, slugdemn, it was so boring.
i like the fact that i don't have to camp at all in any capacity and can just focus on my ability and killer gameplay.
@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3496867#Comment_3496867
the condemn play style from both sides feels unique and engaging as it puts a lot of multitasking
Completely agree! I think playing against it is a nice change of pace from the regular gameplay loop. Plus, I like having more things to do as a survivor. After 7 years, running around planks of wood and lifting people off hooks can get tedious, so I personnaly love the killers that have an interesting side objective. Onryō and Pig are two of my favourite killers to go against for this reason.
Still don’t understand why a stealth killer has a lullaby
Agree as well. So many of her add-ons are pointless because of her Lullaby too. Like Clump of Hair reducing visibility range by 6 metres while Demanifsted. What difference does that make if they can hear you coming with loud screechy noises?
Like Clump of Hair reducing visibility range by 6 metres while Demanifsted. What difference does that make if they can hear you coming with loud screechy noises?
you would likely want addon to read: reduce ambient noises by 6 meters when in demanifiest and reduces visibility distance. sadako's add-on are usable add-on as is. so I am fine with how they currently are.
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3496778#Comment_3496778
That's why you pre-trap strong loops, then funnel them into it, instead of trapping the loop as you play it. Remember hag is very short, and you're playing as a 4.7. You shouldn't have any trouble mindgaming fillers, even moderately strong ones.
a lot of pallet are pretty safe so being faster is not that great. you can zone pallet loops better by breaking the pallet and hope the survivor has poor pathing on chaining-tiles with increased speed. I guess that is the advantage of playing add-on but idk. instant tp sounds more useful in my opinion.
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3496547#Comment_3496547
You point out that X perk is "unconditional value" , then admit Killer perks require the condition of certain specific killers...
Then you agree that the popular perks are hyper consistent with potent effects (Which by all means, is the identifier for an overpowered perk).
Am I missing something here?
i am referencing your post in regards to
Point still remains, No perk should provide free, unconditional and permanent buffs to basekit.
perks try remain as general as possible but killer perk are always prone to anti-power synergy. sometimes purposeful, other times coincidental. the point that meta perk are almost always consistent and the associated perks trigger every single game or near enough every game.
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3496532#Comment_3496532
> Like if you play killer well, you will proc pain res on average at least couple times per match
Pain res is on a scourge hook condition, sometimes the white hooks dont spawn where you found a surv and downed them (theres only 4 of them) + the chance of hitting a fresh gen with a 25% and wasting the use. Value is quite literally not guaranteed.
>same with jolt, same with sloppy and any other perk top used perk.
Jolt triggers on M1 dowms only , some killers can't even use the perk at all or cannot use their main power , like nurse , bubba, hillbilly ,huntress, trickster etc. effect is limited to a 32m radius around the M1 downed person sometimes triggers on non-progressed gens, meaning it was 0 value.
can be countered by simply running away from your gen, takes you about 8 seconds to make enough distance from the gen to not get it hit with an 8% regression.
Sloppy - Only triggers on M1 attack If you got injured you're most likely being chased, if you're being chased, you're going down by game design, perk literally had no effect during the chase. again, same killer restrictions as Jolt to proc the effect.
Perk adds a mere 4 seconds to heal time, meaning you have only 4 extra seconds to interrupt a heal, thats all the "value" is concentrated at, a mere 4 second window to interrupt a heal , across the map.
MFT and Resi will still activate regardless of m1, m2 or insta down , will still be providing value out of hook, you can 99% the heal with a medkit and get perk value + full health value for free.
You've still failed to come up with a killer perk that buffs basekit permanentely.
like i've said previously, MFT and resi is the equivalent of pop making ALL of your kicks regress 30% after getting ONE hook.
Jolt triggers on M1 downs only , some killers can't even use the perk at all or cannot use their main power
then that means that particular perk is not good on that particular killer. remember killer are all different while survivors are all same. billy for example can use pop if he seeks regressions. my point being is that all particular popular perks are generally hyper consistent with potent enough effect to select it. so idea that every perk needs timer or weird conditions is silly. that is textbook for how to make bad perks.
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3496308#Comment_3496308
The game is designed around a 60% Killrate, or 7-8 Hooks.
By design 2 people are meant to die while 2 are meant to escape, with the escapees having 1-2 hook states on them.
By design Tiles are balanced around 115/110 vs 100, any deviation will benefit one side extremely hard.
Common knowledge that a 110 killer chasing around a Long wall Gym or T/L will have a hard time playing said tile , however, MFT + resi turns these tiles from hard to impossible just because you got outplayed and hit.
Point still remains, No perk should provide free, unconditional and permanent buffs to basekit.
Point still remains, No perk should provide free, unconditional and permanent buffs to basekit.
the perks that killer's use are free unconditional value. they just have auxiliary qualities to maximize their value. Like if you play killer well, you will proc pain res on average at least couple times per match but in order to get max value, you need to chase all 4 survivors. it is still free value. same with jolt, same with sloppy and any other perk top used perk. MFT auxiliaries qualities are being injured and not using exhaustion. you just don't like going against it. you likely wish there was a killer perk that nullified its value. maybe one day killer will have a perk that gives minor amount of haste to accommodate killer players that have dreadful dislike of the perk. for now, you can still win vs MFT players with most killers with enough experience. It is slightly harder chases.
Resilience, Deja vu and Adrenaline are unlikely to change. besides deja vu, those perks are ancient and have stayed same for long time.
Common knowledge that a 110 killer chasing around a Long wall Gym or T/L will have a hard time playing said tile , however, MFT + resi turns these tiles from hard to impossible just because you got outplayed and hit.
110% m/s killer are generally designed around having strong chase at tile-sets and strong way to mitigate distance gain. If they don't do that well, then it means their power is not good enough to warrant being 110 in first place meaning their power needs improvements.
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@dbdthegame said:
Good. Franklins and Hoarder were always crutches for bad Pinheads. Learn good box spawn logic, Pinhead is still very strong.
Name one scenario where you would need to stand on box for 5 seconds outside of egregious griefing.
i think his anti-loop is little to weak against survivor that hold-w correctly and efficient break chains. his chain hunt is pretty good and is relatively strong if the player succeeds in activating the chain hunt. the anti-loop is a bit too weak to call him strong.
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@Annso_x said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3496090#Comment_3496090
lol if you think iri 1 is anything more than an indication of how much one plays in a month I'm afraid I'm not the one who doesn't know how the game works. But if you must know I just don't play much because killer is so easy i get bored after 3 games and solo q is frustrating enough I haven't played survivor in weeks, and I simply do not care enough about a random fictional game achievement to take this game seriously.
Anyways this "busted combination" is nothing more than a cute build for a perk showcase video. Fixated doesn't bring anything more than it does to other exhaustion perks, meaning barely anything. Same thing for Vigil, it's always been a pretty nice perk but it's not worth wasting a perk slot on it if you're in solo queue, and it actually saves less time with Smash Hit than it does with any other exhaustion perk. Btw Aryun is wrong Smash Hit + Vigil isn't 14s it's about 15.5s, so you're literally wasting a perk slot for less than 5 seconds you don't even need to save. People rarely use Vigil for 40s of exhaustion to begin with, so using it for 20s is plain silly.
Ayrun would literally have gotten the same results using Smash Hit only, so if you're going to complain just say the nerf was too strong because you get stunned every 20 seconds instead of making up a "toxic combo" (because of course everything that's somewhat good is toxic, as we have come to learn on this forum)
And no, I don't think Made for this is bad perk.
(Also, don't believe everything you read on the internet, a clickbait title isn't factual and neither is a steam account I haven't used for DBD in months)
I agree with your post. vigil should be something like 50%. I don't think i have ever seen anyone recover their exhaustion perk when I play killer. 40/1.5 would be 26 seconds and smash hit would be 20/1.5 =13.33. maybe then this build would make sense.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3496339#Comment_3496339
That's just pickrate, it only loosely correlates to the perk's strength.
As I said, it's a shame that old CoH was seen as the benchmark, because it makes the other boons look worse than they are and means people discount the current version even though it's perfectly usable. Hell, it's even pretty strong- even when situational, a 100% healing speed increase is nothing to sneeze at, just look at We'll Make It.
a perk that you need setup to heal faster and it is in small radius is not worth it. given that player need to walk to the boon if it is far away and you are setting up boon. you can heal people faster then setting up the boon. We'll make it works because it does not need any setup and you are a moving boon for 90 seconds. all the boon have awful usage rate because their radius is too small. they're not worth time or effort to use.
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my new favourite chase perk.
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@adsads123123123123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3496139#Comment_3496139
There's no point since most of them will trigger and get wasted. Even if they do trigger while you're chasing a survivor, it won't do much most of the time.
no what i mean is you put traps in grass where people rotate loops. you get less rewards then trapper because if someone steps in trapper trap. they get instant downed. if someone steps in your trap, you get hindered which is just 1 hit. ultimately, i think it is pointless because tp hag can do same thing so I am not entirely sure what the point of the add-on is other than to bloodpoint farm.
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@adsads123123123123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3496102#Comment_3496102
You realize there is no point setting up traps in advance with Waterlog shoe right?
you play waterlog shoe like trapper. you put traps on pallets with the reward of like a freddy snare. slow setup killer are just weird in dbd 2023. they kinda just don't make much sense. your better off playing artist in my opinion.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3496033#Comment_3496033
But you don't get information where they are, from which you run with killer.
Action: body block is not hard
But get into position at correct time is not that easy, unless it's from unhooking.
Passive aura reading makes it monkey level easy.
Only way how to mimic this level of information is full SWF with good clock call out system.
That's definitely not something you want average survivors to be at. There is no way to balance around that.
There is no way to balance around that.
your entitled to that opinion.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3495663#Comment_3495663
I think also the iridescent tape. You know where the survivor has to go to turn it in and you can just camp it out if they have high condemn and they are out of options.
you can just hide as survivor if she camps a television and let your team progress gens since she is chasing no one. she also not applying any condemn pressure either.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3495590#Comment_3495590
That's very far from basic gameplay action.
There is not many players who can accurately make position call outs.
Best most can get is main and shack.
-never bring killer to other survivors unless you want to.
-always know who goes for unhook
I would definitely consider these two as basic gameplay actions.
-always know where to go for bodyblock
-easy spreading on gens
I consider these as basic gameplay as well.... though your teammates sometimes don't understand how do this at times... which is impressive. I guess It depends on what level of survivor you play at.
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@Doomsaki said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3495882#Comment_3495882
If there is a little of bit of feedback that condemn buildup is strong, then the devs have done their job of making Sadako's power feel threatening.
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But over and over, playing Sadako, I only see 1 out of the 4 survivors actually grabbing a tape early on. I know how to isolate 1/2 of the map and turn off all the TVs on one side; people don't try to grab tapes until its too late. Someone gets Mori'd predictably quickly as a result, then everyone starts to give up or DC after that; a lot of post-game yelling in chat results.
It just seems as if people aren't figuring out that a decision they made in the first 30s of the game is causing a snowball defeat.
I agree. they did masterful job. I want to play against sadako now as survivor. she is super fun for the killer to play. I bet it will be heart racing experience to play against good sadako players. imagine escaping a trial when injured knowing that 1 hit is a mori. that sounds like an intense experience.
But over and over, playing Sadako, I only see 1 out of the 4 survivors actually grabbing a tape early on. I know how to isolate 1/2 of the map and turn off all the TVs on one side; people don't try to grab tapes until its too late. Someone gets Mori'd predictably quickly as a result, then everyone starts to give up or DC after that; a lot of post-game yelling in chat results.
sounds like skill issue. no clue how you balance around that.
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3495990#Comment_3495990
these perk do encourage play-styles. Deja vu encourages gen-rush as play-style and MFT & Resilience encourage looping as a play-style. they are encouraging a different play-style. every perk does.
Gen rush is an inherentely anti-game "playstyle", might aswell play gen repair simulator 2023 at that point.
MFT and Resi dont "encourage" a looping playstyle, its a "Run 3 times around this pallet, drop, Hold shift W until next loop because killer can't catch me because of my 3%".
The tiles are designed for 110/115 vs 100 speed and any deviation will break them, you cannot defend MFT and Resi having no requirement besides "You got caught and hit, now enjoy being uncatchable".
I mean facing same killer means lack of killer variety because other killer are not enjoyable to play for X reasons. Many killer have weak chases so having strong empowered chasing perks will make weaker killer with bad chase be less enjoyable to play. it is just logical outcome.
So we can agree that survivor MFT+Resi meta is actively pushing people to play stronger killers. Of course people would play killers that can catch up or counter near infinites.
Because as we all know, playing trapper or wraith vs 4 MFT+Resi survs is almost impossible, and made even worse when they get +7% from hope.
Im sorry, but MFT+Resi is undefendable in its current state.
MFT and Resi dont "encourage" a looping playstyle, its a "Run 3 times around this pallet, drop, Hold shift W until next loop because killer can't catch me because of my 3%".
you just described looping.
Gen rush is an inherentely anti-game "playstyle", might aswell play gen repair simulator 2023 at that point.
a big part of survivor gameplay is doing gens so doing gens faster is always good. you don't have to like those perks.
So we can agree that survivor MFT+Resi meta is actively pushing people to play stronger killers. Of course people would play killers that can catch up or counter near infinites.
Because as we all know, playing trapper or wraith vs 4 MFT+Resi survs is almost impossible, and made even worse when they get +7% from hope.
Im sorry, but MFT+Resi is undefendable in its current state.
weak killer is just killer balance problem. the perks just exaggerate their weaknesses.
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3495941#Comment_3495941
Thats quite literally the point, to weaken them and make them situational.
No perk should exist thats so good it makes others not even worth considering since they buff surv basekit so much.
Friendly competition is a very balanced perk by all intents and purposes, requires you to FINISH a gen with a teammate, then the repair speed boost is timed.
Perks should encourage different playstyles in order to bring variety to the game.
When survivors complain about facing wesker 5x in a row, they forget that the wesker probably played 5 games against 3-4 people (15-20 Survivors) running MFT + Resi builds in the same time frame.
No perk should exist thats so good it makes others not even worth considering since they buff surv basekit so much.
that is very Utopia world. there is always going to be some particular meta perk that shines above all others. its matter of how you adapt to what is being used and then there is something that I like to call the axis of evil and good. Axis of evil and good is what people believe is good or bad for the game. What is evil and what is good is entirely subjective to each player and it does not reflect of power-level of how strong something is. it only reflects on whether you enjoy or dislike playing against it. an example is of something that is evil for most player is 3 gens. 3 gens might not be strong or effective to win but they are generally dislike therefore they are evil. Likewise, if something is good, then people like it. for example, a survivor might think that a healing perk like self-care is a good perk. they like being healthy.
Perks should encourage different playstyles in order to bring variety to the game.
these perk do encourage play-styles. Deja vu encourages gen-rush as play-style and MFT & Resilience encourage looping as a play-style. they are encouraging a different play-style. every perk does.
When survivors complain about facing wesker 5x in a row, they forget that the wesker probably played 5 games against 3-4 people (15-20 Survivors) running MFT + Resi builds in the same time frame.
I mean facing same killer means lack of killer variety because other killer are not enjoyable to play for X reasons. Many killer have weak chases so having strong empowered chasing perks will make weaker killer with bad chase be less enjoyable to play. it is just logical outcome.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3495896#Comment_3495896
These changes would literally put her in F tier.
the changes legit delete the killer. that is hilarious. this why I hope sadako just stays the same so we do not get those type of changes.
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3495802#Comment_3495802
That is intended lmao, the way it works now it literally blocks the gen, either hit the skill checks or the gen gets blocked, that's how the perk works
they have habit of changing wrong thing to fix the problem. they needed to rework merciless storm to only trigger for fix time window if they dislike that interaction. the simple fix is just making merciless storm trigger at 90% progression for 8/9/10 seconds. personally I don't think there was anything wrong with that interaction. merciless storm is not great perk for someone that is experienced with skill-checks and the perk is not strong even when a player fails the check. it also only works once per gen.
a lot of recent dbd changes seem to be just indirect changes to try to revert back to pre 6.1 dbd. it is like people cannot adapt to any changes.
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Alternative abilities with the Movement and Action speed perks being on a timer or another activation requirement that doesn’t directly progress the game.
that would make those action speed and m/s perks not worth using. they would be too weak. an example of action speed perk that nobody uses is new Thalita perk Friendly competition. it grants 5% repair bonus for 75 seconds. according to nightlight, 0.54% players use it. timer based perks and perks like boon:dark theory are too situational. players will not use perks that suck or are situational.
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@adsads123123123123 said:
It's still just playing as a worse Clown. The powers are very similar except Clown does everything better. The biggest problem is the setup of the trap. It's so slow, they can just leave the loop and you have no power. The addon needs to come with trap setting speed increases.
to me, it just seems like they're testing the viability of 118% m/s killer with no ability. all that extra speed does is make it slightly harder to hold-w to next loop. the shoe is not very good. I imagine it is newbie stompy for survivor that do not know where next pallets are and struggle to chain-loops.
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@DyingWish92 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3495927#Comment_3495927
They have no choice. She can practically spam her teleport to condemn people. At some point they will have no choice but to interact with a tv.
they do but they do not need hold tape with 0.5 stacks of condemn. it means you will not get 2 stacks of condemn. the teleport's have to be threatening so build up is not lackluster.
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@DyingWish92 said:
I think the condemned builds up to fast now. Probably needs to be dialed back a tiny bit. Instead of 75% of a stack 50% of a stack. Keep the 2 stacks with a tape. At the moment it's just teleport spam for moris.
what if nobody holds a tape then. it goes back to old version where nobody interacts with her TV's because the mechanic is not threatening enough to do so.
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@kaoraku said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3495910#Comment_3495910
But you said that the problem is people not use killer's power well, since those should solve the problem of bad balanced maps. Or did I missunderstood something? Thats why I said that no, they not solve the problem, also not powers should be the answer for bad balance.
the killer that are underpowered are underpowered because the killer's play with said power has low impact on the outcome of the match. that is kinda what it means to be weak. it means your play matters and other person's play is meaningless. the killer is spectator of his own defeat. this can also apply to survivor if killer is too strong and undefeatable. the survivor can become a spectator to their own inevitable death.
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@kaoraku said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3495724#Comment_3495724
if killer uses their power well and the killer power has a lot of skill-expression then killer can mitigate and sometimes entirely avoid the map design problems entirely.
I absolutly disagree. It shouldn't be skill issue at all to counter the bad map design. Newbie players also would like to enjoy the game and win.
Also most of the killers nothing to do with it. How Amanda counter the map design in a chase with her power for example?
by using ambush dash? ambush dash being weak and poor answer to most loops is problem with killer power balance. its what blueberry is talking about when he says that "80% of the killer need buffs and 50% being significant buffs". you buff amanda dash when Amanda struggles to defeat survivors. that logic applies to every killer.