Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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I definitely agree with soma photo problem vs stronger teams. i don't know about EMP change. I think it might better to improve singularity tracking capacity and ability to spread infection instead. he's suppose to infect most of the team but he has no tracking tools at base to do that. effort it takes for survivor to remove infection is a lot easier then it takes for killer to macro infection. it might better to give him some QOL tracking improvements.
Here's an example.
-> When Singularity looks through bi-pods, he can see aura of generator intensity of the generators -> gives clues for where to apply infection. It fits his lore. He is like rogue AI that supposedly is smarter then humans and understands technology.
-> When a survivor is within radius of bi-pod, the bi-pod is shown in yellow within 20 meters -> this gives information to switch to camera to infect survivors. This also fits his lore because he is suppose to be hunting survivors.
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Another aspect that I find cumbersome for him is removal of pods and the restriction of pods. the pod limit of 8 makes feel little bit limiting because in practice, he needs few pods to use in chase and few pods he uses to survey gens. using pods in chase makes him lose pods for infecting survivors in macro game. I am not entirely sure for what would be good solution for this. a possible idea I had was something like this.
-he can place 2 pods above the limit but the pods above the limit only last 20 seconds
another change that would be interesting is if you hold M2, you can press... secondary power which I think CTRL by default, the button that reloads clowns bottles to remove camera's that you face. right now, if you want to remove pods from distance, you need spam pods to reset entire map. he has limited control over pod removal. this would give some more control over it.
I would go more along lines of qol minor buffs. not massive direct power-level type buffs.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3519230#Comment_3519230
1) Buffing Calm spirit would encourage more people to play Calm spirit.
2) Calm spirit encourages survivors to excessively pre-leave generators at the first hint of a visual terror radius, and run far away, being fully aware their running won't trigger any crow alerts. This makes it excessively annoying to find the survivors, and encourages killers to just kick the generator and patrol the generators some more. And this encourages long 3 gen games, because the survivors are playing the same so safely that the generators aren't getting done, and the killer doesn't have a reasonable chance to get into a short ranged chase with a survivor.
3) Any perk that encourages survivors to excessively pre-leave generators, or encourages survivors to excessively hide in general, should be nerfed into the ground, and stay nerfed into the ground.
3) Any perk that encourages survivors to excessively pre-leave generators, or encourages survivors to excessively hide in general, should be nerfed into the ground, and stay nerfed into the ground.
i have to laugh. this logic is funny. this is like "I do not like how my opponent is playing, nerf it". with this type of attitude on every perk, every perk would be ineffective...
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@GannTM said:
It’s a detriment to put on at this point. Spirit without add ons is honestly better than running this add on.
this could be grey add-on with 100% blood points in all categories.
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tooltips are hard to write in games. a big challenge is that you want to summarize what the perk does in least amount of words. if the perk is too long, someone might not read it. if the perk is too short, then it might omit key information.
I think survey is just experimenting with tooltips.
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I understand all of those perks. they're worded in a strange way.
perk 1 is press E when healing a survivor. healing action are increased by 50%. for 5 second. you are inflicted by exhaustion status effect for 40 seconds. the perk does not say that you cannot use it while not exhausted. perk 1 is worse botany knowledge but you get no penalty for using med-kits. with how it is worded. you can spam it. you only save like 5.2 second total minus amount of delay between turning the perk on/off on a teammate. I do not think anyone would use it but that is just my opinion.
perk 2 inflict hindered on all 4 survivors globally on the map every time a generator pops. highly situational hindered effect. the perk could be worded to be "All survivors in the trial are inflicted by 5% hindered effect for 12 seconds." I think the hindered number is too low to use it.
perk 3 is something like old mettle of man. you bless a totem and basic hits proc tokens in boon area. first this only works with against weaker killer with only m1. secondly, the perk requires you to body block teammates in boon area to stack up the perk. that is something that only SWF would be able to use by body blocking. it is like situational strong. too much time investment for the reward.
perk 4 is situational perk for killer that inflicts exposed permanently when completing healing action. if exposed survivor heals someone or goes down. the exposed ends. it is not really good. I had an idea for a perk like that. the perk inflicted permanent broken on obsession at the start of the trail but obsession gained 15% vaulting speed and 1-3% haste. The obsession could not be changed. their version of this perk is not worth using. too much effort for not much reward. SWF would likely avoid the perk entirely.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3519071#Comment_3519071
On my version it's said this perk does not stack. That's all i got
good job, you invented devour hope for survivor. if you want to generalize the perk, you could make it that it gains a token every time a killer injures a survivor by any means instead of basic attack.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3518756#Comment_3518756
Skill ceiling for his tail attack is quite high, but I think that's optimal for any killer.
Low skill floor, high skill ceiling
That's why Wesker is the most popular killer. With some small changes, Alien can contest it.
I think turrets are going to be ruin the fun for killer using xeno. I kinda wish his power same but without turrets. turrets make his stealth not as effective as they could be and they disrupt killer gameplay without adding very much to the killer itself.
wesker's power does not disrupt killer's ability to play the game. the power has no drawbacks. Xeno's power has constant drawback for the entire game. turrets do not disappear. I don't think killer are big fan of these type of -drawback- powers. I only like killer items if it added dynamic and new gameplay for both sides to utilize against each other. turret mechanic is like EMPS or Nemesis vaccines. it is one sided. if killer has designed 4vs1 element to them, then it is ok if it is one sided for killer like pinhead box or wesker infection. it just means that killer has some of base gen delay factored into their power.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3518119#Comment_3518119
Coulraphobia is already a usable meta perk for doctor lol. Genuine question, have you ever come up against coulraphobia in a survivor game? Both slowing healing by a lot AND skillchecks that are way too fast to hit. combined with how madness disrupts skill checks and throwing in sloppy butcher for good measure would make it literally impossible to heal outside of stuff like syringes and inner healing, which is negligible because survs can't see killer before match so would not be able to stack those. Applying that across the entire map for the whole game is absolute madness.
I run coulraphobia and sloppy on my doctor anti skillcheck build, along with distressing. When I run it on midwich or meat plant, so survs are most of the time in my TR, almost no healing gets done.
It would be broken and almost impossible to play against. If you're that dismissive of it you clearly didn't give it much thought.
yes i have. some wesker player used to use it in gideon's map. I have escaped vast majority of matches that I have seen perk get used.
When I run it on midwich or meat plant, so survs are most of the time in my TR, almost no healing gets done.
yeah because there is little reason to heal..
It would be broken and almost impossible to play against. If you're that dismissive of it you clearly didn't give it much thought.
right.... doctor overpowered. not a skill issue.
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@AhoyWolf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3518267#Comment_3518267
This would not be really that helpful since it would really screw up your muscle memory and become something you cannot take off once you get used to it, kinda like Shadowborn.
i don't see anything wrong with that. the player that use it will use it and the people don't use it will not use it. i wonder what killer are getting FOV slider. they said something about that where some killers get motion sickness from FOV.
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@SixShotOcelot said:
I believe the devs did mention the power was changed at some point during development. Who's to say whether it was early, mid or late-stage development. But I recall the devs saying originally, rather than teleporting to survivor, the survivor was teleported to the killer. However, I believe they said that was much too disorienting on the survivor side.
Overall, I personally really like the power. It's a bit much at first, but you get used to the playstyle. He definitely has a high skill floor though, which I think is the main reason he is not played much. I had to play quite a few bot matches just to get the hang of it.
Do you think you would enjoy being teleported by the killer and to the killer, on top of having know idea which way your facing or where on the map you are?
that sounds really cool. like a time-stop character.
@SixShotOcelot said:
Interesting! I am glad you find it interesting, and I definitely agree it would be unique. Unfortunately, just because something is interesting or unique doesn't make it good. :(
I feel Pinhead is a bad example of comparison, because like the Live Singularity, the Killer is in control of teleporting, thus they know to expect the location and more importantly the POV change. Why complain about something you have complete control over. The issue is the disorienting nature of an enemy player having the ability to relocate you at will.
If survivors, automatically relocated Pinhead as soon as they began solving the cube, regardless of Pinhead's choice, I guarantee Pinhead players would be complaining like crazy.
Although, I am curious how this has worked in other games. Do you know of any example in 3rd or 1st person PvP games where an enemy can relocate & reorient the camera of a player? Not a top down/isometric camera-based game (I understand this is a mechanic in many MOBAs such as LoL and DOTA2). But this is not comparable.
To me, this feels like a mechanic most PvP game devs avoid. But, show me a game where it's done well and I'll re-evaluate my perspective! ^_^
Although, I am curious how this has worked in other games. Do you know of any example in 3rd or 1st person PvP games where an enemy can relocate & reorient the camera of a player? Not a top down/isometric camera-based game (I understand this is a mechanic in many MOBAs such as LoL and DOTA2). But this is not comparable.
yeah roadhog in overwatch. it is not instant teleport but concept of pulling someone is that. dbd has it as well. deathslinger. maybe it could work as idea if you gave survivor's invisibility like you shoot someone and they teleport back to a random approximate location. that is little bit like reverse spirit.
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@Blueberry said:
Not sure why Corrupt Intervention isn't already base kit.
For survivor I feel like the HUD being added was kind of their base kit Kindred. The HUD gives a lot of information.
i agree. HUD is little bit like base-kit kindred but i don't think its encompassing enough. i think global aura survivor aura would be better. I still don't feel like there is much coordination in soloq and it still feels disorganized.
i think corrupt fails to address problem. I think issue is more of killer's not having enough dynamic global presence on the map. too much of killer's presence on maps is at best centered in 1 area for where killer is or at worst 1vs1 centric. killer try to fix this by running regression perks like jolt, pain res, pop, eruption to have like global-like regression in disrupting gens but in the end, the impact is somewhat non-existent vs efficient teams. I think pain res base-kit would be good but the problem is strange.
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the design of the perk is to make great skill-check easier. i suggest making it that it decreases skill-check dial speed by 10/20/30% in addition to increasing skill-check success zones by same amount.
that perk looks like something that could be added to spine chill.
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i agree. unfortunate. maybe they revert it some day.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3518119#Comment_3518119
I love my anti-skill check Doctor.
I get my 54m Terror Radius, and survivors can't hit any skill checks in about half the map. With Sloppy and Coulrophobia, they literally can't heal.
It's ridiculously oppressive. I can only imagine how bad it would be if it was the entire map. Survivors would be lining up by the hook.
That said, I could see them increasing Doctors base TR to 40m like Wesker, and in turn, nerfing the Calm add ons.
Instead of being +/- 4/6/8 when Static Blast is/isn't ready.
It could be +2/4/6 when Static Blast is ready and -6/8/10 when Static Blast is on cooldown.
i think if your getting hits slower then 2 survivors doing 32 seconds heals then your desperately doing something wrong with killer or your not using the perks to spread pressure in meaningful way.
coulrophobia is strong enough that sloppy butcher is wasted perk slot.
It's ridiculously oppressive. I can only imagine how bad it would be if it was the entire map. Survivors would be lining up by the hook.
i don't really fear being injured as survivor. I feel safe on survivor as long strong pallets exist on the map for being injured. the main thing for me about being injured is hook-saves. everyone being injured makes it difficult to hook-save. it is like playing vs facecamping bubba entire game. Picking up slug is also really dangerous. deadzone type is scary part for me when playing injured.
I love my anti-skill check Doctor.
I won't disagree that it is funny but i feel like it should not be that... effective....
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i think both dh and mft are strong perks but if i had to choose which to play vs, it would be MFT. anything that gives near guaranteed safety when triggered that is controlled by the survivors ability to use the perk is difficult to play against as killer. DH is that. something that I have realized about the game is that slowdown survivor perks that reduce your ability to gain pressure and avoid downs are unfun for killer but fun for survivor. I do not think you can change anything in regards to that.
It is just matter of what kind of flavor of chase slowdown you favor playing against as killer. highly subjective.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
Absolutely not. Aside from anything else applying coulraphobia across the entire map all the time would be absolutely broken.
you mean make coulraphobia a usable meta perk on doc. wow a perk that is blocking healing. so overpowered. shrug.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3517331#Comment_3517331
While it can happen I’m finding more often than not I’m breaking 3 gen situations with this perk. I’m a SoloQ player too.
that is because average killer does not have a good macro game to naturally form a 3 gen. it is also in part that most survivor are bad at gen-rushing because they complete wrong gens then they complain that they're in 3 gen. even when survivor does 3 gen themselves from killer forcing it, a strong team can bulldozer break 3 gen in very little time unless the map is specific heavily killer sided. I guess you could argue that some maps are too killer sided but killer have same complaints on survivor maps that are survivor sided because of loop design.
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@WilliamSN said:
If youre getting "3 gend" that often, consider swapping adrenaline with deja vu.
It's on you to swap your perks out, not on bhvr to make it so you don't have to.
that doesn't matter when killer is camping 3 gens from the start. the player will still get 3 gen. see skull merchant game vs team eternal. 3 gens are controlled by killer. not by the survivor.
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@Emeal said:
thats a bit overpowered.
perma bloodlust 3 after 3 minutes. maybe every gen you lose, you gain 1% haste. I think it is more of meme perk like blood pact/power of two.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3517188#Comment_3517188
"problem is that jailer has most detection so he will always be fastest under that system due to proportion of circle"
I said based on distance the Hunt started, meaning faster the closer they are. So Jailer having a larger detection range is irrelevant.
"you also have to remember that survivor can run forward as guard materializes so that is other issue with that idea"
That doesn't have any impact on my idea.
"that is why map of the realm is good because the extra detection means that circle expands quicker. at 8 meters of guard detection, the survivor can legit run forward and guard cannot detect the survivor even if it spawned directly on top of them. knight's base-kit guard are that bad."
While this is all true, it has no relevance to my idea.
it already works that way. knight get 5% haste with duration of 2-10 seconds depending on max length of the path. the problem is that it only affects knight. I am saying it should affect the guards speed instead.
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@Savoie536 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3517188#Comment_3517188
Yes, zoning is a strategy that all Killers in the game can use to an extent, and the Knight just happens to be better at it. But using this logic, that means that Skull Merchant doesn't need a rework, because all Killers can 3-gen, she just happens to accentuate it.
Yes, it is possible for skilled Survivors to counter a Knight. I didn't make this rework because the Knight was too strong or too weak, atleast it wasn't the main reason. I made it because his gameplay style is very unfun for Survivors and even Killers. I do not think his zoning ability is good for the health of the game. So I made many changes to deincentivise drawing short Patrol Paths and chasing the Hunted Survivor, or atleast giving the Hunted Survivor strong counterplay. This makes using Knight for macroplay more viable.
Skull Merchant doesn't need a rework, because all Killers can 3-gen, she just happens to accentuate it.
yeah that is my opinion as well. skull merchant does not need rework but they need to balance 3 gens to not be endless stalemates. to be fair, they're not endless stalemates anymore but... they last too long.
I do not think his zoning ability is good for the health of the game.
I agree with that as well. I don't think brutal strength a pallet and then hitting a survivor in the corner of the map is fun gameplay. Like any lose/lose mechanic, the skill in the mechanic existing is prevent its value from being creating an impact towards opposing side in winning the match. that just means that pallets in the corner of the map are useless vs knight and that is not knight exclusive either. many powers directly do that or aid in corner-zoning hit gameplay. the mechanic that is suppose to make not effective is pallet break mechanic but some killer can ignore that using the power. it is just one of those gameplay mechanics.
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@Blueberry said:
Rather than making them just faster at base, make it based on proximity to the survivor when the Hunt begins. This actually raises his skill ceiling as the only ones getting hits with the guard regularly will be the ones that are skilled at placing them.
problem is that jailer has most detection so he will always be fastest under that system due to proportion of circle. you also have to remember that survivor can run forward as guard materializes so that is other issue with that idea. that is why map of the realm is good because the extra detection means that circle expands quicker. at 8 meters of guard detection, the survivor can legit run forward and guard cannot detect the survivor even if it spawned directly on top of them. knight's base-kit guard are that bad.
@Savoie536 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3517128#Comment_3517128
Hubris is a pretty weak perk, it's C-tier on most Killers. I also think it isn't well-designed, as it punishes a Survivor for doing well. My rework gives Survivors a fair amount of warning and gives Killers more control over it, as well as removing its cooldown. It comes at the cost of a few special synergies, but I think it's OK.
Making Guards move faster for long Patrol Paths is OK, but in my opinion the most problematic part of Knight gameplay is making a Hunted Survivor utterly helpless is you decide to chase them. That's why I awarded a speed boost if Knights refuse to do so.
Your Jailer change, while cool in theory, would strongly incentivises chasing the Hunted Survivor, something I've tried to discourage with the rework.
Yes, Call to Arms and Map of the Realm basekit would make landing Guard Hunts much easier. But that's exactly what I want, as I want to greatly lower Knight's skill-floor. I also don't like putting the rest of the numbers on the Iridescent Add-on. These add-ons are meant to be special, and have unique effects. There are very few Iridescent Add-ons that straight-up buff your Power, and those ones personally feel underwhelming to me when I see them.
Your Map of the Realm idea is pretty good, but the thing is that Wraith and Legion get this information for just entering their power with their Iridescent Add-ons. So it would feel underwhelming if Knight didn't also get Auras for entering Guard Summon Mode.
Your Jailer change, while cool in theory, would strongly incentivises chasing the Hunted Survivor, something I've tried to discourage with the rework.
The jailer is designed to be zoning guard. in reality, with current knight design, you could remove every other guard and just have jailer at base-kit because all other guards cannot hit the survivor so they are wastes space. you use guards to push survivors away from loops until they go into corner then you use guard as threat to hit them so you get m1 hits.
Making Guards move faster for long Patrol Paths is OK, but in my opinion the most problematic part of Knight gameplay is making a Hunted Survivor utterly helpless is you decide to chase them. That's why I awarded a speed boost if Knights refuse to do so.
I do not consider that a problem because all killer can zone survivors into corner of the map. Knight just exaggerates zoning to a higher degree. I would consider this more of a survivor learn to play issue. Zoning is similar to old legion deep wound or bloodlust for unsafe loops in this game. are inevitable hits good design in dbd? No but they exist in the game. the skill in looping current knight is having tactical pathing to avoid being pushed into the corner of the map. you can tactically run forward to waste enough of knight's time to escape assuming team is efficient at generators. hold-w or running forward should have a skill component for both killer and survivor to interact with. With how current guards work, the skill component for survivor trumps killer's ability to counter it. Knight lacks counter-play towards efficient looping.
My goal is to give knight counter-play towards efficient hold-w from survivor so that survivor has greater skill-cap in running forward. this results in knight having deep skill-ceiling beyond corner zoning hits. I do agree that corner zoning hits are not fun to play against for survivor. there exists one perk for survivor that sort of fixing that problem. that perk is called made for this. it gives 3% haste so you can chain-loops easier if killer perfectly zones. It is not guaranteed safety but m/s boost helps.
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i do not agree with hubris change. it weakens singularity ability to use the perk and also weakens other potencial killer that might try to use it like Spirit and Deathslinger.
i would make guards gain haste if knight is affected by the haste. so if the knight draws a patrol path of 10 meter or more, he gains 5% haste for 2-10 seconds. this means that his guards like carnifex will move at 107%, assassin at 115% and Jailer at 107%.
Due to jailer having so much detection radius, survivor cannot avoid his detection. As a result, I would rework his reward to be that survivor hit by jailer suffer a 15% hindered penalty for 3 seconds.
call to arm+map of the realm is way too easy for knight to land guard hunts. at the same time, knight at base-kit can barely land any guards hunts from a distance at base-kit. those add-on would be re-balancing. I think +10 meters length for patrol path could go into base-kit alongside +2 meters from the map of the realm. the remaining two meters and patrol path speed are too much. call to arms should iri add-on that increases patrol speed by 25% and add +2 meters to guards. that add-on would be like facing 3 blink nurse.
Map of the realm could be reworked into something else. an idea could be that it shows aura of intensity of generator for all generator on the map for 15 seconds when a guard successfully lands a guard chase. so it fits the name of giving information on the map.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3516925#Comment_3516925
Aye, I agree, it is very much on brand for Myers, and is amusing I guess for the memes...
However it is still pretty crappy an experience from the survivor side... and I'd say also crappy for gameplay for both sides. You remove so many elements of the game playing this play style, it's pretty far from anything I would consider fun, even as killer... like literally your counter play to instant kill Myers is to not bother with chase and just sprint to hide in a locker, and that is only effective because likely Myers is trying for Evil Incarnate... It's counterplay in the same regards as taking a dive 3 times in boxing for a TKO to avoid getting knocked out... which is a shame because normal Myers is actually quite fun to play both as and against IMO.
I don't necessarily consider my suggestion the best solution... far from it in fact... Devil's point of making his execution basekit seems the most sensible idea to me, but I'd impose the same restrictions as other mori's like Pyramid Head. If he just got it only on death hook, where you could just execute a player from EW3 whether healthy, injured, or dying, it's much less frustrating, cause the alternative scenario is you down the survivor with exposed anyway and then hook... so it's no difference to normal really.
With that in mind I'm OK with Judith Myers Tombstone staying as it is as his alternative gameplay that iri's tend to offer. You lose the ability to kill dying survivors if you really want the locker hiding gameplay... but Tomestone Piece should be nuked from orbit and made something totally different.
This also addresses the abysmal Evil incarnate Challenge as something you can also do on normal Myers instead of having to run this irritating cheesy add-on.
whole point of mori is to skip hook-states. mori's at death hook are have low impact. just weakening his add-on makes myer's become more irrelevant to play. he is old character and his mori-gameplay works. some player will like trying to escape his canonical version of the mori while others will dislike the gameplay. he does have counter-play in regards to using LOS at high-wall loops and locker counter-play. there is not much wrong with it other then it is somewhat cheap mori to play against. so from my personal subjective point of view, I don't like playing vs it because of the process of how he gets the mori. it feels too robotic. other players might think it is the perfect mori design. fun is all subjective.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3516591#Comment_3516591
Lol no. You act like that addon is crazy op or something. It's pretty average, it's just makes his most fun play style function.
i think the max distance of 10 meters could be base-kit but not really speed. he feels fast enough in ghostform in default from my experience to not need it.
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i would change keys to no longer have mind-channeling and I would rework some of add-on of the key. at same time, I think key has potencial to be controversial item to play against for killer.
For maps, I would just add two iri add-on for the map both of which consume the map. the first one cleanses all totems on the map and 2nd one allows you to place all boon perks effects on the nearest totem near you without equipping any perks. both of them burn the map.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3515573#Comment_3515573
WoO leads to formulaic pathing from pallet to pallet.
It doesn't matter how you design the maps, WoO users will still make a beeline for the nearest pallet wherever it is.
The only way to solve for this would be to halve the number of pallets and vaults on each map, which means you're punishing survivors who don't run WoO. So ultimately it's an issue of power creep, WoO offers too much information.
WoO has a double-whammy of being both a useful learning tool, AND vital information for the skilled looper. It's difficult to nerf for the latter without also nerfing for the former.
sure but formulaic pathing is possible if you have knowledge of how dbd maps are constructed. very few pallets in this game have radical changes in positioning. 90% of maps are static.
the issue that window showcases is the problem of safe pallet design. if the killer is forced to break every pallet because the pallet does not allow killer to hit survivor then the survivor is suppose to always make it to next loop from the pallet break self-stun. windows shows how to get to next loop. killer's problem is that he should not be breaking pallets in first place. he should be winning mindgames at pallets to get hits. that is not exactly possible when you have long-wall pallet->Jungle gym->Shack or when maps have loads of pallets that block your way like Gideon's map. windows just expresses problems of loop design for m1 killers.
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this post is like huge wish list for knight. i do not think they have time do all that.
I think main 3 problems with knight are
1) his detection radius for assassin and carnifex is too low, he needs map of the realm for these two guards to work
2) landing long range guards is unrewarding because survivor can outrun on all 3 of them.
3) He is added-on locked. He requires map of the realm and call to arms or dried horsemeat(to attempt to make Assassin get hits).
I agree with a lot of changes like adding half of map of the realm and call to arms base-kit. this solves problem 1 and 3. I think his jailer guard needs be changed to something like applies hindered by -5% and exposed for 30 seconds so that they can buff the carnifex and assassin to have greater movement speed when the patrol radius is larger then 10 meters. this would resolve problem 2. just be aware that his guards hitting survivors is similar to spirit's phase-walk gameplay that some players disliked playing vs.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3515900#Comment_3515900
Admittedly I haven't played his since the perk rework, and I have heard that new Coup de Grace and Thrilling Tremours are absolutely bonkers on him... Would you say he is strong enough outside of Tombstone Piece with this perk reliance?
There is a part of me wondering if the current Mori should just be base kit active on Death Hook while in EW3 and call it a night, and the Tomestone Piece/JMT add-ons simply allow you to do it on dying survivors too. The fact you can go for and exposed stab and instant kill to avoid any saves is not especially strong, but is sufficient.
Tomestone Piece: Having that benefit at the expense of getting knocked out of EW3 seems fair for a purple.
JMT: Doesn't then need the huge downsides, you can probably do something like it increases the amount of available stalk on survivors or something, while having it take longer to charge your first EW3... but you could basically do anything to this and all probelms are solved to my mind.
yes, trail of torment and coup are good on myer's. previously they were not very good perks. their drawbacks were too weak to be considered by killer players. If you want exaggerate myer's kit, The perk to change is furtive chase. it is a perk that is suppose to lower your terror radius every time you hook obsession. the only problem is that the perk ... only works inside chase. this is to prevent the perk from working correctly.
Trail of torment does fine job on its own to give you undetectable during EV3 but real version of myer's perk synergy at base-kit is meant to be monitor&abuse+furtive chase. that is ghostface 99% marking on steroids. that perk synergy would enable you to have a low terror radius for entire game in EV3.
Coup the grace exaggerates what myer's anti-loop is suppose to be. I think he has 20% coup the grace at base-kit in ev3 but that numerical value barely does anything. coup allows Myer's to use his EV3 as chasing power though most of power comes from the perk itself and not necessarily him. either way, his power has natural synergy with coup
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@thisislastyearsmodel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3515900#Comment_3515900
This isn't a good argument though. It's the same reason Trapper and Clown suck — perks and add-ons can only do so much for a weak base kit. And more so, imo he's just boring. Fun to play against if it's a good player, but playing as him is just so dull.
I think myer's fun is same as ghostface's fun. it is the action of combining instant down+undetectable. I think ghostface is suppose to be better at 99% instant down+undetectable play-style but he kinda feels like he works hard to achieve it. Myer's niche is 99% instant kill mori. both of those designs are inherent somewhat evil in design in the sense that if they are strong killers, they're not fun to play against from survivor's perceptive. the undetectable into instant down is kinda kept in its mediocre to avoid major complaints about it. you will either love the thrill of being jump-scared or really dislike stealth overall. It is same reason why many player dislike hit & run wraith because it also aims to do that instant down into undetectable gameplay with usage of anti-heal perks.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3515346#Comment_3515346
Too true, you hit the nail, Myers is a fascinating snapshot of DBD design.
His power fits him wonderfully well so I don't think anyone wants to mess with it too much, but without his execution add-ons, he is an inferior Ghostface in almost every way.... weaker stealth with a more difficult to trigger power when you need it
Basekit execution is a solution I prefer to remove that add-on reliance, but execution shouldnt be the balancing component. Though it is weaker, the more I consider options, the more I come to think Evil Within as it is, is largely fine at realising the unique feel of Myers... so I'd leave EW as it is, but...
I'd be tempted to add tokens to EW with your "scaling him into your late game monster" point with some kind of condition. I want to say hooks... which is probably right... if a little boring. Whatever it is the execution in EW3 comes as part of the progress of those marks, along with the stat boosts you mention.
However you do it, I think my general point is stalk time should not be your execution trigger.
he is an inferior Ghostface in almost every way..
I think he has advantages. one advantage he has is that he cannot be broken out of stalking. The other advantages is that he can use perks that surpress his TR in EV3 to emulate the 99% mark GF gameplay. Myer's is in a better spot than he ever has been for m1 killer. He might not emulate being a late game killer but he does have some perk synergy to make his gameplay relevant. for that reason, I don't think he needs any changes. his mori is strong gimmick and it wins like 99% of games. his base-kit is not that great but smart perk synergy can make his power more effective.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3515197#Comment_3515197
That wouldn't have worked well either. It's strength lies in that first chase. The first chase, if the survivor just holds shift+w takes the killer around 59 seconds to down them, pick them up, and hook them. When you throw dead hard in there, it makes it take another 15.5 in that straight line chase. Now you are talking territory of just losing 3 gens no matter what, even a single use of dead hard early on is game ending.
I agree on first chase aspect of your post. a perk that i fear more then old DH is dramaturgy. that perk is old DH and just like old DH, it will make first chases of the game very damaging because survivor can greed safe pallets along side window vaulting then use this perk to get to pallets they were not suppose to make. I am fairly certain that DH was designed to be a second-chance perk related to tanking hits. it is just that tanking hits is strong in dbd. it is hard to balance because of large list of weak killers... that can lose to just 1 DH play. DH would be balanced perk with infinities uses if the majority of killers were really strong in the chase. unfortunately dbd has long ways to go before that ever happens.
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@WiseTraveler said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3515365#Comment_3515365
Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I guess the title should be called buffing self preservation. I just think more of these perks that give small niche effects need some buffs.
trigger condition on the perk is not good. you only activate effect when everyone is dead or the game already lost. I think if you could use this perk proactively during the match, it would be an amazing stealth and juke perk. Like press activation button 2 to trigger the perk, it drains the perk up to a max of 90 seconds, you can press activation button 2 while running to cancel the perk with cooldown of 15 seconds. At the same time, I am not sure that killer want to face a perk like that where they randomly lose survivors that they are chasing so it is likely bad for reason.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3515200#Comment_3515200
I understand the sentiment, I'm a big fan of classic slasher films and ofc am a fan of Halloween... but despite that this is about gameplay first and foremost, and the issue I take with this statement is execution is not even Myer's, or any other killer's, default gameplay; hooks are the primary goal.
Executions are ofc part of the game, but for nearly all executions you start to see a pattern. Either the threat of them is a natural slowdown in the killers kit, or they are an alternative flavour for the final hook only available to the killer towards the end game. That's why most are controlled by hooks or similar: -
- Mori offerings
- Pyramid Heads Final Judgement
- Devour Hope
- Rancor (all gates powered instead)
The only exceptions are Pig and Sadako, who similar to devour hope, are forcing a side quest on survivors that if they ignore, will result in their deaths. In both cases, you shouldn't be relying on getting your power based execution, you should still be primarily going for hooks, and executions come if survivors don't deal with your natural slowdown.
That leaves us with add-on execution Myers, who takes longer to charge his power, and then once charged, starts deleting people from the game. You can argue that this is slowdown, the need to keep avoiding him and breaking line of sight keeps survivors off gens... but the exposure does this already. The execution has no end game control element here, no real chases or looping until it becomes 1 mistake = dead, no healing, no unhooking, no flashlight saves, no hook sabotage, no protection hits. Instead we get... accept the hook by hiding in lockers... yay...
All the game becomes is gen progress vs. stalk progress, and who gets there fast is probably gonna win. This is what makes it cheap and frustrating to face... even if Myers isn't that strong. Its unique... but unique because its bad is not a asset to be proud of.
I know I can't speak for everyone, but I myself find Myers boring as snot to play this way as well. Any kills I get I don't really feel like I earned, and ultimately I enjoy the chase and mind games throughout the whole game that I get with standard Myers, that becomes sorely missed when I'm just looking to kill each player as fast as possible. It's like tunneling on crack.
I am on board for basekit execution, as long as it still leaves way for the game to still have the normal gameplay elements.
All the game becomes is gen progress vs. stalk progress, and who gets there fast is probably gonna win. This is what makes it cheap and frustrating to face... even if Myers isn't that strong. Its unique... but unique because its bad is not a asset to be proud of.
Oh I completely agree. a long time ago. I said that Myer's is lowest skill-floor character in the game. it is because his gameplay doesn't take any effort to be good at. His entire win condition is PWYF. Prior to Nemesis's release, finding obsession as Myer's was difficult because there was no tracking perks to find obsession. You had to wander around aimlessly finding obsession to get 15% haste bonus from PWYF. Now a days, you can just put Lethal pursuer+PWYF and immediately find the obsession. Once you finish tier the perk up, you can just brute force any stalking on any survivor as slow movement has little meaning when you have this giant amount of haste. As soon as you acquire t2 to 99%, most will just try to run away from generators as they instantly get deleted. you repeat that process with another survivor until 2 survivor remain. After that you down 1 survivor and camp the hook.
it is not very engaging mori's. the build-up of it is not really there. you don't feel like you earned the mori. you feel like you got mori because game said you get mori's. I think it is same problem why people dislike head-pop pig. it is that weird lack of input for high reward.
I know I can't speak for everyone, but I myself find Myers boring as snot to play this way as well. Any kills I get I don't really feel like I earned, and ultimately I enjoy the chase and mind games throughout the whole game that I get with standard Myers, that becomes sorely missed when I'm just looking to kill each player as fast as possible. It's like tunneling on crack.
I agree. I do not find Myer's engaging to play. I kind of feel same way about Pig and her jigsaws. her jigsaw are like tunneling on crack. At the same time, I can somewhat sympathize with myer's that run said add-on and Pig players that tunnel. their killer is not particular good at the chase and they do not have many redeeming qualities outside of that. Myer's ability is almost designed for gen-rushing. in theory, he's suppose to be a killer that has slow start and by the end of the game, he has unbeatable end game. It is just that at base-kit, I do not think he expresses an unbeatable end-game. His unbeatable end-game is mostly that cheesy mori strategy that I describe in paragraph 1. I think he was designed at a very early stage of dbd where most player were not that great at the game. the idea of unlimited instant downs looks like unbeatable feet. I guess he makes new player feel good because... they think they defeated the craziest killer of all time. In reality, Plague and Legion are killer that keep entire team injured for entire trial and being injured is barely drawback to a well-seasoned player.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3515285#Comment_3515285
There was a change that was more recent where it only took 2, in exchange how ever MoM just gave Endurance. What this meant is it was easier to activate, but wouldnt stack with other Endurance perks and would deactivate upon doing a conspicuous action
This version of MoM only saw the light of day for like a patch or 2, and thank god for that
i don't know. I think whole endurance change is likely going to get revisited at some point because it could be exploited to tunnel players out of the game. that is already a problem for anyone that uses dead hard. deep wound is like exhaust effect for that perk. pinhead with original pain is ignoring base-kit BT. that should sound very familiar to someone who also used to do that..freddy.
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@humanbeing1704 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3515256#Comment_3515256
Actually that was what it originally was when it got reworked but having both was dubbed overpowered still
na it was always 3 tokens. the rework had it where you could unhook to get 1 token.
with 2 tokens, you just run to the hook. take a hit then unhook someone, then get hit again. once you get hooked, you get both BT and MoM. MoM would just be OTR with no drawbacks. that is way too strong shift-w play vs weak killers for anti-tunnel perk.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3515234#Comment_3515234
If Spirit player is not good with her, they should not get easy downs. That's the point of strong killers.
You can't perform good with Blight, Nurse, Huntress, Wesker etc as well if you are not good with their powers. Because that's where skills come out.
Good Spirits are performing well enough. Because they are skilled. Because they know how to play Spirit. Because they know how to trick survivors. Spirit is no longer phase and just get your free hit type killer. She has counterplay but she is not dead.
But she is not braindeadly easy, yes. She need to work for kills. If this makes her weak on your mind, like i said on my pre-message. You can believe to whatever you want. But it does not mean this is true. And nobody forces you to play her tho. You can play Blight or Nurse before they get same judgment.
If Spirit player is not good with her, they should not get easy downs.
the spirit is getting easy downs because survivor... is not playing well against the ability. I think over estimate how much killer has control over.. the game.
You can't perform good with Blight, Nurse, Huntress, Wesker etc as well if you are not good with their powers. Because that's where skills come out.
..... You can if your opponent is worse then you.
Good Spirits are performing well enough. Because they are skilled.
no they are performing because their opponent does not understand how to counter the phase-walk. you can't base a killer strength by people that have no game-sense. it is like basing a killer off playing vs bots...
She has counterplay but she is not dead.
she has too much counter-play...
You can play Blight or Nurse before they get same judgment.
but blight and nurse do work for their kills. what a weird conversation.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3515187#Comment_3515187
If you are thinking Spirit's base-kit is mediocre, we have nothing to talk about this. You are free to believe whatever you want but this does not mean it's true.
when i look at killer. i like to think to think of what I can do as survivor to make it more difficult for killer to down me and track me. it is not that hard... to outplay spirit. it should not be possible to always consistently avoid phase-walk. it should be prediction based. sign. no true Scotsman fallacy is too strong with spirit. also not every spirit is good... either.
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@Orthane said:
There's way too many addons that need to be base kit. I know people hate Skull Merchant, but if you want to play her as a chase killer you literally HAVE to use a purple addon called Geographical Readout. Knight NEEDS Map of the Realm, Deathslinger NEEDS at least the brown reload addon so on and so on. Pyramid Head NEEDS at least 1 range addon or hitting your power just feels way too difficult in most situations. It's super annoying that addons that feel required for killers to feel good to play get nerfed because of statistics without BHVR trying to figure out why so many people feel the need to use them all the time regardless of build or playstyle. It's the same thing with gen regression perks, without them gens just fly by so everyone has to run at least Pain Res or Pop Goes the Weasel or it feels awful to play killer.
i think that is because survivor mains would complain that all those killers with those add-on's would be too oppressive but yeah I do agree with OP post that majority of killer often feel weak because their base-kit is not good. it is hard to balance killer for ultra low level, low, medium level and high level. it is almost like every killer would need different base-kits at different levels....
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3515141#Comment_3515141
Killers that just ignore hooks are always problematic and being able to just insta kill someone is always miserable, it does not really matter if it is lore accurate, if it's miserable to play against it should not be implemented...
I however like the idea of giving him more bonuses for more stalking, that would be way better.
shrug.... but that is what makes myer's feel unique. i mean what, all you need to do is pay attention to the surroundings....
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3514996#Comment_3514996
Hopefully Blight is next. He should lose all of his add-ons too.
Strong power should not be feeded with strong add-ons.
what makes stronger killer is strong add-on+strong base-kit. spirit now has mediocre base-kit with 2-3 mediocre add-on's. it is sad when spirit had good base-kit and almost every add-on was possible to use. Sure, few stood out as better than others but everything was good.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3514452#Comment_3514452
Yeah fair point, I was being conservative. You can lower/remove penalties as needed, its the concept that's important.
I did consider 5 hooks because although thats not the mathematical modpoint, for intents and purposes of the game, it is mid point due to the fact the last survivor is dead regardless... but I didn't want to go too hard because:
- You execute literally anyone you can catch from that point on via any means, meaning you noo longer get messed over by accidently swinging or locker hopping.
- You can slug and deny hatch for the Achievement, which was always a serious gamble before.
- I was operating on the assumption this frees up base kit buffs elsewhere now Tomestone Piece isn't busted AF
The point was to reduce the oppressive nature of this part of his kit, to allow other changes to be made 😉
that is terrible. myer's is all about stalking someone and mori them. they trying to make him as canonical as possible. in practice, myers should not be playing around hooks. he should be playing around stalking. tombstone and judith tombstone is what makes myer's unique.
it should be based around stalking survivors to red while survivor does not notice you. if you stalk them long enough. you can kill them with 0 hooks.
i think his add-on should be base-kit but he would need some changes to base-kit to make any sense. for example, tier 1/2/3 should be manual so you can excessive stalk in tier 2 for the mori. without manual activation, your TR would blow your cover for stalking.
another change that would need happen is that when Myer's is selected as killer, the obsession icon is not shown to the survivors. an idea could be that when he mori's someone, a random person becomes obsession and that person is fully stalked so you can instant-kill them.
this would allow him to mori entire team because manually stalking entire team as fully depleted would take too long. T1/T2/T3/T4/T5 should be like passive bonuses. like the more he stalks, the stronger he becomes in the chase. perhaps he starts at normal m/s, normal lunge, normal vaulting speed, but every tier up to say 5 tiers... he gains more lunge, more lunge speed, more movement speed, more vault speed and more pallet break speed. I think that is kinda what the design they were going for him. stalk as side instant-kill mechanic with passive bonus that build up as he stalks. he kinda has that old sadako problem of add-on dependent + not that good power.
these are just ideas for how myer's could work.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3514987#Comment_3514987
Yup I agree. TLDR they’re all wayy undertuned to be viable and to even make them function you have to commit a good chunk of your entire build combining perks and then you’re left wondering why you just made a meme build wasting all your perk slots to prevent just 1 of theirs.
i feel like that intended because they do not want it to be slot efficiency for killer to counter a survivor perk. it is little bit like survivors picking perks to counter hex totems. they do not want you to pick counter-force and just counter all totem builds. they want you to equip a map, run detectives hutch and if you want 2nd perk slot, counter-force and if you 3rd perk slot small game.
I am pretty sure it is intended by design. OP probably saying he want counter to MFT which if going by 1:1 perks would be 3% haste. there are haste perks for killer but they are not that great..
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3514737#Comment_3514737
bHVR is already developing a solution of Face Camping.
cooldown of sbtfl is 1.62. unhooking takes 0.5 second to start action and 1.0 second to complete it. attack cooldown has to be more then 1.5 otherwise you cannot hook trade. it makes facecamping.... strong. it used to stack with unrelenting a long time ago.
I think unrelenting should changed to increase lunge speed by 30%. the miss attack cooldown is weird and not very good. the only way I could ever see anyone use unrelenting is to spam lunges with coup the grace to move faster... but that is just kinda silly for a perk.
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@Blueberry said:
Facts.
With how you can guarantee there will always be an Exhaustion perk on every survivor you’d “think” the exhaustion perks killers have would be meta. But they’re not and almost never ran.
Why aren’t killer exhaustion perks ran when it’s the best meta to run them?
Because nearly all of them are completely terrible and way undertuned.
Why are Exhaustion perks tuned so high to always be meta yet anti exhaustion perks are so undertuned that they’re never seen?
They need heavy buffs across the board to the plethora of them.
they're too high commit currently.
in order to run a valid exhaustion build, you need to run fearmonger #1 but fearmonger is 5 seconds. it needs to be 10 second at least for exhaust to be good as isolated perk.
to fix 5 second problem of fearmonger, you need run blood echo, a perk that inflicts 40 seconds of exhaustion but only on INJURED survivors. a big portion of killer cast has poor anti-loop/chase potencial and is not good at keeping people injured so blood echo situational. so already this makes only good on legion/plague. for other killers to have somewhat meaningful injure pressure, they need to use a 3rd perk called sloppy butcher that makes healing take longer so now they can apply exhaustion properly and keep exhaustion properly. that is 3 perk slots. 75% of a killer build to counter 1 perk.
genetic limit is slugging perk. it is meant to inflict exhaustion when slugging, so when people heal, you apply exhaustion. problem is nobody aims to slug with 99% of killer cast so this is pointless. also it only applies to healer... not to both people according otz. I never even tried to run this perk for how bad it is.
septic touch is nurse calling that applies exhaustion in TR. again that is even more useless then blood echo. If this was ever going to be remotely effective exhaustion, you might as well make this perk global with 0 range restrictions.
@BlueHorkew said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3514895#Comment_3514895
My guess is that the devs don't want perks that counter exhaustion to be easly acessable.
Since exhaustion are almost like an ability for a survivor, i guess easy negation of those perks aren't going to be a thing.
Still, i do agree that they could buff some of the anti exhaustion perks for killer.
Having fearmonger as the only viable one after all this time is kinda sad.
A Hex that causes permanent exhaustion until broken would be cool.
Maybe an exhaustion after hooking a survivor all survivors within a certain range become exhausted, sort of like blood echo but with a range restriction instead of injures.
Idk, people can be creative with it.
they already have plenty of perks with exhaustion. they're just not good.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Otz makes a video and suddenly it is Demos best Add On. After Otz called it that. Before that, it was considered a "weak" Add On which did not need nerfing.
This community is gold.
I agree with your sentiment.
regardless, add-on did not need negative changes. it was only aspect keeping demo relevant to be played. now he is forced to use black heart, an add-on that provides very minor amount of cooldown for shred that does basically nothing due to speed boost on hits and his entire portal power is not worth using for anything other than maybe proxy camping hook gameplay which is boring.
it is more interesting to use portals to ambush survivors at gens then to camp. add-on promotes attempting to do that by giving info to ambush survivors at gens or healing.
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@Blueberry said:
They just need to across the board buff all the weaker killers. People spam those killers because one they’re fun, but also because they like to feel like they have a fair chance of winning against swf and good survivors and most the killer roster doesn’t fit this criteria. Losing because you picked the wrong killer doesn’t feel good.
i think its more that other killer have to go through "bad design" of loops to get hits while stronger killers can ignore bad design of pallets by using their power to create the mindgame to get hits on survivor. killer's base-kit of a lot of power in chase is too weak and the power-gimmick that is suppose help them in chase is over-balanced for average survivor player to do well at loops but average survivor player is not that good at looping if that makes any sense. killer wants to have powers that have a chance to get hits on highest-level of loopers, not the average to poor level of looping. that is why you see mostly stronger killers.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3514270#Comment_3514270
But it's just too easy to miss/dodge for this to be that punishing.
It was fine during quick scope times, missing was basically on you, or survivor had to do great prediction, which was supposed to be rewarded.
It's not really hard to dodge now.
So either reduce punishment, make ADS fast again, or increase projectile speed.
It's not really hard to dodge now.
that is what i mean by too much counter-play.
make ADS fast again, or increase projectile speed.
I am fine with either but i prefer ADS fast over projectile speed. but projectile speed does work... i guess
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@Hex_iButt said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3514187#Comment_3514187
They don't have to be buffed to a full heal just to make them more effective, especially Resurgence, because that kind of buff would be a huge middle finger to Renewal. The 50% is supposed to help you get a head-start on getting you back to full, but that progress is basically non-existent when you're dealing with healing regression. You'd have to start healing as soon as you get off hook/get hit if running Reactive Healing to gain the most benefit from those perks. If the killer is around, then you can kiss that 50% progress goodbye as they can and most likely will interrupt you, losing all value.
In their current state, these perks are pretty dead unless you know for sure the killer you're facing isn't running some sort of anti-healing perk/add-ons, and Sloppy is fairly common in a lot of builds, especially after the self-healing nerfs.
You'd have to start healing as soon as you get off hook/get hit if running Reactive Healing to gain the most benefit from those perks. If the killer is around, then you can kiss that 50% progress goodbye as they can and most likely will interrupt you, losing all value.
as I was talking to @Nos37, that is secondary functionality of hemorrhage which is to regress heals by pressuring survivors. I think the perks were pretty dead even before hemorrhage was invented to regress heals. they were dead on rival.
it is still better to run self-care+botany then run any of these perks. the way you get value out of these perks is to bring a med-kit to heal but the whole reason to run med-kit is to not need to bring perks to heal. the expectation when you equip healing perk... is that it heals you fully.... not heals you half-way.
that kind of buff would be a huge middle finger to Renewal.
yes and renewal is not that great because of complete-health state requirement. It is at least better than these perks but... still not worth running.
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@BlightedDolphin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3512558#Comment_3512558
“That is intended design of Slinger he is supposed to lose distance when missing”
Yes, and it’s too punishing because of it. His power isn’t strong enough to justify such a massive weakness. Huntress is stronger and loses less for missing. He should lose some distance, but it’s too punishing right now.
1.5 second miss cool-down + 2.75 second reload time = 4.25 seconds of cool down where you are slower than the Nurse and still losing distance and don’t have a mobility power like Nurse or Blight to catch up.
That is WAY too punishing for a power that requires aim and doesn’t even guarantee a down if you land it. Just reducing the reload to 2.25 or even 2.5 would be enough to make him feel less unforgiving.
”nurse relies entirely on your ability. I have zero clue what level of survivors you’re playing against where nurse is getting m1 hits as 96% m/s. Blight relies on the ability but less than nurse”
That’s not what I meant. I meant if you land a Blink or Rush on the survivor, you get an injure/down.
If you land a Harpoon with Slinger, the survivor can still break free. You aren’t guaranteed to get the hit in even if you shot them.
Slinger’s power is arguably harder to use than Nurse and Blight and isn’t even guaranteed to award you an injure or down by using while still being more unforgiving and punishing than both of those killers.
"Slinger’s power is arguably harder to use than Nurse and Blight and isn’t even guaranteed to award you an injure or down by using while still being more unforgiving and punishing than both of those killers."
"Yes, and it’s too punishing because of it. His power isn’t strong enough to justify such a massive weakness. Huntress is stronger and loses less for missing. He should lose some distance, but it’s too punishing right now"
i mean yeah. he is not as good as nurse and blight. I thought that is ok for not every killer to be super amazing.
I don't know, I like deathslinger's precision based gameplay style. I think he loses some of his charm if he can mindlessly spam his gun until it lands.