Suggestions for Knight Rework
Goals: Increase the Knight's skill-ceiling, decrease the Knight's skill-floor, buff him until he's on the same level as Artist/Mastermind, make him much easier to counter for Survivors and make him more fun for both sides.
BASEKIT CHANGES:
Buff: Map of the Realm and Call to Arms basekit. (Obviously.)
Buff: Remove the Standard mechanic. (Obviously.)
Buff: Increase his Haste to 7%, and make it last 12 seconds instead of 10 for drawing a maximum Patrol Path.
Quality of Life: Holding the Power Button for 3 seconds while a Guard is Patrolling or Hunting stops them in their tracks before recalling them.
Buff: Increase Patrol duration of Carnifex and Assassin to 15 seconds, and increase Jailer's to 30 seconds. (These two changes will vastly lower Knight's skill-floor.)
Buff: Increase Hunt duration of Assassin and Jailer to 15 seconds, while Carnifex's to 30 seconds. (Just a good change.)
Buff: Decrease cooldown on Guardia Compagnia to 1 second after Order actions. (This will make Knight players more willing to use Guards on Pallets, Breakable Walls and Generators.)
Quality of Life: Holding the Activate Ability Button while not having a Guard out shows you all dropped pallets and non-regressing generators in the environment that can be reached by your Patrol Path. Press the Attack Button while looking at one in particular to draw a Patrol Path to it automatically using the shortest route. (Decreases Knight's skill-floor and gives him a passive ability to know which generators have stopped regressing.)
Rework: The Flushed Out Score Event is now 500 Bloodpoints. It is awarded by either hitting a non-Hunted Survivor during a Hunt, or the Survivor currently being Hunted. (This encourages Knights to have less tunnel-vision on a Hunted Survivor.)
Buff: Jailer now has 106.25% Movement Speed, a middle ground between Assassin's 110 and Carnifex's 102.5. (Makes Jailer better at Chase.)
Buff: Guards now gain a 5% increase in Movement Speed while the Knight is not within 12 meters of the Hunted Survivor.
Assassin becomes 115%, Jailer 111.25%, and Carnifex 106.5%. (Once again, deincentivises hitting a Hunted Survivor and buffs the Guards.)
Buff: Increased Patrol Speed of Carnifex and Assassin to 4.0 m/s, and the Jailer's to 4.4 m/s. (This makes drawing long Patrol Paths slightly more viable.)
Nerf: Guards now despawn after having a Pallet dropped on them. (I know they're ghosts, but it makes them fairly easy to counter at a fair price to the Knight.)
Nerf: If the Knight is currently chasing the Hunted Survivor, being stunned will despawn his Guards. The Knight will also get stunned automatically if his Guard is stunned during the chase with the Hunted Survivor. This will, once again, only happen if the Knight was chasing the Hunted Survivor. (Makes chasing a Hunted Survivor much more risky, and gives Survivors fun counterplay.)
ADD-ON PASS:
COMMON:
Tattered Tabard becomes the Meme Add-on. Your Guards no longer follow any set pattern of Summoning. If you run the double Guard add-ons, the chance of that particular Guard is doubled.
Battle Axe Head, Treated Blade, and Cold-Steel Manacles reduced to Common.
UNCOMMON:
Call to Arms: Reworked. After your Guard has finished their Order action on a Generator, they patrol the Patrol Path set out for them rather than returning to your inventory.
Pillaged Mead: Reduces Jailer and Assassin's Break Time to 3 seconds. Increases Carnifex's break time to 3 seconds. (Standardises the break times. This technically nerfs the tech where you use the Jailer or the Assassin to attack a Generator that's almost completed by Survivors while you get there, but I'm sure people could find an interesting build for it.)
Map of the Realm: Increases Jailer's Detection Range to 24 metres, but reduces his speed bact to Carnifex's. (Just a fun change. Jailer needs some love.)
Gritty Lump: The new Grim Iron Mask. Also has an additional effect, where a Survivor is highlighted by Killer Instinct for 6 seconds after being detected.
Dried Horsemeat: Increases Patrol duration of Carnifex and Assassin to 18 seconds, while increasing Jailer's to 36 seconds. (This technically buffs 3-genning but I'm going to assume that the Devs' upcoming changes wipe that strategy off the face of the earth.)
RARE:
Ironworker's Tongs: Increases Hunt duration of Assassin and Jailer to 18 seconds, while increasing Carnifex's to 36 seconds. (There's not much to say about this.)
Town Watch's Torch: Knight becomes Undetectable on a Guard Hunt and has Auras of Survivors within 12 metres revealed. (Makes Knight a much better Scratched Mirror Myers.)
Grim Iron Mask: Increases Carnifex and Assassin's Patrol Speed to 4.2 m/s and Jailer's to 4.6 m/s.
Chail Main Fragment: Now gives both Hemmorhage and Mangled to a Survivor hit by a Guard Strike or Flushed Out.
Broken Hilt: Any Generators inside Jailer's Detection Range begin regressing at 200% speed. Does not stack with other regression.
VERY RARE:
Lightweight Greaves: Reworked. Jailer can now detect Survivors through walls. Also all three Guards inflict Deep Wound. (This is uncounterable, but the effect isn't too strong for it to be a problem.)
Healing Poultice: Reworked. Assassin makes absolutely no sound during a Chase. No Survivor can hear his scream or see the Hunt icon on the HUD. His Guard Detection Range is invisible.
Flint and Steel: Reworked. Carnifex now instadowns Survivors, but his Patrol Speed is set at 3.4 m/s. Also, if a injured Survivor is hit while with Endurance, Guards pause in place for 2.5 seconds, before starting the Hunt with them again. (Very powerful, but not uncounterable.)
Blacksmith's Hammer: Reworked. Now disables all your Perks. If a Guard is sent to kick a Generator, that Guard will continue kicking it indefinitely until the Knight recalls them. The Knight can use the other two Guards at this time on other Generators for the same effects. Survivors can still repair the Generator peacefully, but have their Aura revealed while within 20 metres of the Guard. (This basically makes you an M1 Killer with a 60 metre Wiretap. Very fun.)
ULTRA RARE:
Knight's Contract: You now see the Auras of Generators in Guard Summon Mode and can see their progress by the Aura's intensity. This is the same as Wraith's All-Seeing Spirit.
Iridescent Banner: Same effect as before, with an additional one. If there is a dropped Pallet in a Guard's path during a Hunt, the Guard will stop to destroy the Pallet before continuing with the Hunt. The time it takes for the Pallet to be destroyed doesn't decrease the Hunt duration, but Survivors can make distance during this time.
PERK CHANGES:
Hubris: Reworked. Every time you get stunned by a Survivor, gain a Token, upto 4. Once you reach 4 Tokens and are no longer in a Chase, Hubris activates, causing all Survivors to scream. The next time you enter a Chase with a healthy Survivor, a token will be consumed to inflict them with Exposed for 15 seconds. You can not gain any more Tokens until all are used up.
Hex: Face the Darkness: Works on Survivors outside 16 metres of you rather than outside your Terror Radius. Makes it more viable for most Killers.
CONCLUSION:
I really would appreciate your feedback. Is this overpowered, underpowered, too complicated, too simple, too unfun for Survivors or Killers? Please let me know and I'll make edits.
Comments
i do not agree with hubris change. it weakens singularity ability to use the perk and also weakens other potencial killer that might try to use it like Spirit and Deathslinger.
i would make guards gain haste if knight is affected by the haste. so if the knight draws a patrol path of 10 meter or more, he gains 5% haste for 2-10 seconds. this means that his guards like carnifex will move at 107%, assassin at 115% and Jailer at 107%.
Due to jailer having so much detection radius, survivor cannot avoid his detection. As a result, I would rework his reward to be that survivor hit by jailer suffer a 15% hindered penalty for 3 seconds.
call to arm+map of the realm is way too easy for knight to land guard hunts. at the same time, knight at base-kit can barely land any guards hunts from a distance at base-kit. those add-on would be re-balancing. I think +10 meters length for patrol path could go into base-kit alongside +2 meters from the map of the realm. the remaining two meters and patrol path speed are too much. call to arms should iri add-on that increases patrol speed by 25% and add +2 meters to guards. that add-on would be like facing 3 blink nurse.
Map of the realm could be reworked into something else. an idea could be that it shows aura of intensity of generator for all generator on the map for 15 seconds when a guard successfully lands a guard chase. so it fits the name of giving information on the map.
Hubris is a pretty weak perk, it's C-tier on most Killers. I also think it isn't well-designed, as it punishes a Survivor for doing well. My rework gives Survivors a fair amount of warning and gives Killers more control over it, as well as removing its cooldown. It comes at the cost of a few special synergies, but I think it's OK.
Making Guards move faster for long Patrol Paths is OK, but in my opinion the most problematic part of Knight gameplay is making a Hunted Survivor utterly helpless is you decide to chase them. That's why I awarded a speed boost if Knights refuse to do so.
Your Jailer change, while cool in theory, would strongly incentivises chasing the Hunted Survivor, something I've tried to discourage with the rework.
Yes, Call to Arms and Map of the Realm basekit would make landing Guard Hunts much easier. But that's exactly what I want, as I want to greatly lower Knight's skill-floor. I also don't like putting the rest of the numbers on the Iridescent Add-on. These add-ons are meant to be special, and have unique effects. There are very few Iridescent Add-ons that straight-up buff your Power, and those ones personally feel underwhelming to me when I see them.
Your Map of the Realm idea is pretty good, but the thing is that Wraith and Legion get this information for just entering their power with their Iridescent Add-ons. So it would feel underwhelming if Knight didn't also get Auras for entering Guard Summon Mode.
Rather than making them just faster at base, make it based on proximity to the survivor when the Hunt begins. This actually raises his skill ceiling as the only ones getting hits with the guard regularly will be the ones that are skilled at placing them.
he has a skill floor lmao? enter loop press m2 move to next loop repeat till hit
That's a pretty good idea, but I made the change in order to discourage chasing the Hunted Survivor. If the Guards were faster and the Knight was chasing you at the same time, escaping would be nigh-impossible. (Though to be fair it already is.) We could have both changes at the same time, but unless we nerf both of them to have weaker effects, we could have a situation where the Assassin is faster than the Knight himself, which would just feel weird.
problem is that jailer has most detection so he will always be fastest under that system due to proportion of circle. you also have to remember that survivor can run forward as guard materializes so that is other issue with that idea. that is why map of the realm is good because the extra detection means that circle expands quicker. at 8 meters of guard detection, the survivor can legit run forward and guard cannot detect the survivor even if it spawned directly on top of them. knight's base-kit guard are that bad.
Your Jailer change, while cool in theory, would strongly incentivises chasing the Hunted Survivor, something I've tried to discourage with the rework.
The jailer is designed to be zoning guard. in reality, with current knight design, you could remove every other guard and just have jailer at base-kit because all other guards cannot hit the survivor so they are wastes space. you use guards to push survivors away from loops until they go into corner then you use guard as threat to hit them so you get m1 hits.
Making Guards move faster for long Patrol Paths is OK, but in my opinion the most problematic part of Knight gameplay is making a Hunted Survivor utterly helpless is you decide to chase them. That's why I awarded a speed boost if Knights refuse to do so.
I do not consider that a problem because all killer can zone survivors into corner of the map. Knight just exaggerates zoning to a higher degree. I would consider this more of a survivor learn to play issue. Zoning is similar to old legion deep wound or bloodlust for unsafe loops in this game. are inevitable hits good design in dbd? No but they exist in the game. the skill in looping current knight is having tactical pathing to avoid being pushed into the corner of the map. you can tactically run forward to waste enough of knight's time to escape assuming team is efficient at generators. hold-w or running forward should have a skill component for both killer and survivor to interact with. With how current guards work, the skill component for survivor trumps killer's ability to counter it. Knight lacks counter-play towards efficient looping.
My goal is to give knight counter-play towards efficient hold-w from survivor so that survivor has greater skill-cap in running forward. this results in knight having deep skill-ceiling beyond corner zoning hits. I do agree that corner zoning hits are not fun to play against for survivor. there exists one perk for survivor that sort of fixing that problem. that perk is called made for this. it gives 3% haste so you can chain-loops easier if killer perfectly zones. It is not guaranteed safety but m/s boost helps.
Of course, you can play him like that, but it's much less powerful then learning how to draw long Patrol Paths. My rework quite heavily encourages drawing a long Patrol Path and punishes Knights who try to brute-force a chase with a humiliating stun.
Make the speed only apply if further than 12 meters from the killer to prevent that.
Yes, zoning is a strategy that all Killers in the game can use to an extent, and the Knight just happens to be better at it. But using this logic, that means that Skull Merchant doesn't need a rework, because all Killers can 3-gen, she just happens to accentuate it.
Yes, it is possible for skilled Survivors to counter a Knight. I didn't make this rework because the Knight was too strong or too weak, atleast it wasn't the main reason. I made it because his gameplay style is very unfun for Survivors and even Killers. I do not think his zoning ability is good for the health of the game. So I made many changes to deincentivise drawing short Patrol Paths and chasing the Hunted Survivor, or atleast giving the Hunted Survivor strong counterplay. This makes using Knight for macroplay more viable.
Skull Merchant doesn't need a rework, because all Killers can 3-gen, she just happens to accentuate it.
yeah that is my opinion as well. skull merchant does not need rework but they need to balance 3 gens to not be endless stalemates. to be fair, they're not endless stalemates anymore but... they last too long.
I do not think his zoning ability is good for the health of the game.
I agree with that as well. I don't think brutal strength a pallet and then hitting a survivor in the corner of the map is fun gameplay. Like any lose/lose mechanic, the skill in the mechanic existing is prevent its value from being creating an impact towards opposing side in winning the match. that just means that pallets in the corner of the map are useless vs knight and that is not knight exclusive either. many powers directly do that or aid in corner-zoning hit gameplay. the mechanic that is suppose to make not effective is pallet break mechanic but some killer can ignore that using the power. it is just one of those gameplay mechanics.
"problem is that jailer has most detection so he will always be fastest under that system due to proportion of circle"
I said based on distance the Hunt started, meaning faster the closer they are. So Jailer having a larger detection range is irrelevant.
"you also have to remember that survivor can run forward as guard materializes so that is other issue with that idea"
That doesn't have any impact on my idea.
"that is why map of the realm is good because the extra detection means that circle expands quicker. at 8 meters of guard detection, the survivor can legit run forward and guard cannot detect the survivor even if it spawned directly on top of them. knight's base-kit guard are that bad."
While this is all true, it has no relevance to my idea.
it already works that way. knight get 5% haste with duration of 2-10 seconds depending on max length of the path. the problem is that it only affects knight. I am saying it should affect the guards speed instead.
Actually, when I said Skull Merchant doesn't need a rework, I was saying it from a Devil's Advocate point of view. I do think Skull Merchant needs a rework to make her more fun for both sides, but I hope it doesn't change her core gameplay, since I actually find her fun. So I do think Skull Merchant needs a rework, but 3-gens are getting nerfed seperately so they won't be a problem on her anymore. Hopefully the rework will focus on making her more fun, especially for Survivors.