Savoie536
Savoie536
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- Savoie536
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3517214#Comment_3517214
Skull Merchant doesn't need a rework, because all Killers can 3-gen, she just happens to accentuate it.
yeah that is my opinion as well. skull merchant does not need rework but they need to balance 3 gens to not be endless stalemates. to be fair, they're not endless stalemates anymore but... they last too long.
I do not think his zoning ability is good for the health of the game.
I agree with that as well. I don't think brutal strength a pallet and then hitting a survivor in the corner of the map is fun gameplay. Like any lose/lose mechanic, the skill in the mechanic existing is prevent its value from being creating an impact towards opposing side in winning the match. that just means that pallets in the corner of the map are useless vs knight and that is not knight exclusive either. many powers directly do that or aid in corner-zoning hit gameplay. the mechanic that is suppose to make not effective is pallet break mechanic but some killer can ignore that using the power. it is just one of those gameplay mechanics.
Actually, when I said Skull Merchant doesn't need a rework, I was saying it from a Devil's Advocate point of view. I do think Skull Merchant needs a rework to make her more fun for both sides, but I hope it doesn't change her core gameplay, since I actually find her fun. So I do think Skull Merchant needs a rework, but 3-gens are getting nerfed seperately so they won't be a problem on her anymore. Hopefully the rework will focus on making her more fun, especially for Survivors.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3517161#Comment_3517161
problem is that jailer has most detection so he will always be fastest under that system due to proportion of circle. you also have to remember that survivor can run forward as guard materializes so that is other issue with that idea. that is why map of the realm is good because the extra detection means that circle expands quicker. at 8 meters of guard detection, the survivor can legit run forward and guard cannot detect the survivor even if it spawned directly on top of them. knight's base-kit guard are that bad.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3517158#Comment_3517158
Your Jailer change, while cool in theory, would strongly incentivises chasing the Hunted Survivor, something I've tried to discourage with the rework.
The jailer is designed to be zoning guard. in reality, with current knight design, you could remove every other guard and just have jailer at base-kit because all other guards cannot hit the survivor so they are wastes space. you use guards to push survivors away from loops until they go into corner then you use guard as threat to hit them so you get m1 hits.
Making Guards move faster for long Patrol Paths is OK, but in my opinion the most problematic part of Knight gameplay is making a Hunted Survivor utterly helpless is you decide to chase them. That's why I awarded a speed boost if Knights refuse to do so.
I do not consider that a problem because all killer can zone survivors into corner of the map. Knight just exaggerates zoning to a higher degree. I would consider this more of a survivor learn to play issue. Zoning is similar to old legion deep wound or bloodlust for unsafe loops in this game. are inevitable hits good design in dbd? No but they exist in the game. the skill in looping current knight is having tactical pathing to avoid being pushed into the corner of the map. you can tactically run forward to waste enough of knight's time to escape assuming team is efficient at generators. hold-w or running forward should have a skill component for both killer and survivor to interact with. With how current guards work, the skill component for survivor trumps killer's ability to counter it. Knight lacks counter-play towards efficient looping.
My goal is to give knight counter-play towards efficient hold-w from survivor so that survivor has greater skill-cap in running forward. this results in knight having deep skill-ceiling beyond corner zoning hits. I do agree that corner zoning hits are not fun to play against for survivor. there exists one perk for survivor that sort of fixing that problem. that perk is called made for this. it gives 3% haste so you can chain-loops easier if killer perfectly zones. It is not guaranteed safety but m/s boost helps.
Yes, zoning is a strategy that all Killers in the game can use to an extent, and the Knight just happens to be better at it. But using this logic, that means that Skull Merchant doesn't need a rework, because all Killers can 3-gen, she just happens to accentuate it.
Yes, it is possible for skilled Survivors to counter a Knight. I didn't make this rework because the Knight was too strong or too weak, atleast it wasn't the main reason. I made it because his gameplay style is very unfun for Survivors and even Killers. I do not think his zoning ability is good for the health of the game. So I made many changes to deincentivise drawing short Patrol Paths and chasing the Hunted Survivor, or atleast giving the Hunted Survivor strong counterplay. This makes using Knight for macroplay more viable.
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@Steakdabait said:
he has a skill floor lmao? enter loop press m2 move to next loop repeat till hit
Of course, you can play him like that, but it's much less powerful then learning how to draw long Patrol Paths. My rework quite heavily encourages drawing a long Patrol Path and punishes Knights who try to brute-force a chase with a humiliating stun.
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@Blueberry said:
Rather than making them just faster at base, make it based on proximity to the survivor when the Hunt begins. This actually raises his skill ceiling as the only ones getting hits with the guard regularly will be the ones that are skilled at placing them.
That's a pretty good idea, but I made the change in order to discourage chasing the Hunted Survivor. If the Guards were faster and the Knight was chasing you at the same time, escaping would be nigh-impossible. (Though to be fair it already is.) We could have both changes at the same time, but unless we nerf both of them to have weaker effects, we could have a situation where the Assassin is faster than the Knight himself, which would just feel weird.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
i do not agree with hubris change. it weakens singularity ability to use the perk and also weakens other potencial killer that might try to use it like Spirit and Deathslinger.
i would make guards gain haste if knight is affected by the haste. so if the knight draws a patrol path of 10 meter or more, he gains 5% haste for 2-10 seconds. this means that his guards like carnifex will move at 107%, assassin at 115% and Jailer at 107%.
Due to jailer having so much detection radius, survivor cannot avoid his detection. As a result, I would rework his reward to be that survivor hit by jailer suffer a 15% hindered penalty for 3 seconds.
call to arm+map of the realm is way too easy for knight to land guard hunts. at the same time, knight at base-kit can barely land any guards hunts from a distance at base-kit. those add-on would be re-balancing. I think +10 meters length for patrol path could go into base-kit alongside +2 meters from the map of the realm. the remaining two meters and patrol path speed are too much. call to arms should iri add-on that increases patrol speed by 25% and add +2 meters to guards. that add-on would be like facing 3 blink nurse.
Map of the realm could be reworked into something else. an idea could be that it shows aura of intensity of generator for all generator on the map for 15 seconds when a guard successfully lands a guard chase. so it fits the name of giving information on the map.
Hubris is a pretty weak perk, it's C-tier on most Killers. I also think it isn't well-designed, as it punishes a Survivor for doing well. My rework gives Survivors a fair amount of warning and gives Killers more control over it, as well as removing its cooldown. It comes at the cost of a few special synergies, but I think it's OK.
Making Guards move faster for long Patrol Paths is OK, but in my opinion the most problematic part of Knight gameplay is making a Hunted Survivor utterly helpless is you decide to chase them. That's why I awarded a speed boost if Knights refuse to do so.
Your Jailer change, while cool in theory, would strongly incentivises chasing the Hunted Survivor, something I've tried to discourage with the rework.
Yes, Call to Arms and Map of the Realm basekit would make landing Guard Hunts much easier. But that's exactly what I want, as I want to greatly lower Knight's skill-floor. I also don't like putting the rest of the numbers on the Iridescent Add-on. These add-ons are meant to be special, and have unique effects. There are very few Iridescent Add-ons that straight-up buff your Power, and those ones personally feel underwhelming to me when I see them.
Your Map of the Realm idea is pretty good, but the thing is that Wraith and Legion get this information for just entering their power with their Iridescent Add-ons. So it would feel underwhelming if Knight didn't also get Auras for entering Guard Summon Mode.