Demogordon_Ramsay
Demogordon_Ramsay
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@willoftheboss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1111791#Comment_1111791
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1111795#Comment_1111795
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1111798#Comment_1111798
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1111822#Comment_1111822
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1111835#Comment_1111835
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1111850#Comment_1111850
"just run this one perk forever even if it's not against SM Myers" is lol advice
SM Myers is a meme build, it's fun to play against because it's so different. he can come up at you out of nowhere but has no chase which is the tradeoff for his jumpscare ability. "just run this perk bro" is stupid advice because you don't know what killer you're playing against so it more comes down to how you play. you just need to be super aware at all times, have 2 escape routes in mind because you never know where he's coming from.
I mean, Spine Chill is really good no matter what Killer you're going against. Combine it with Resilience and people who are good at chases can give it borderline OP status. It just so happens that Spine Chill also has the benefit of cucking Myers.
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I sure hope not.
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No Mither, Solidarity, Second Wind, and Lucky Break
Because I'm a bumbling moron.
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I think mine doesn't need any explaining. It does all the talking on its own.
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@Coder said:
y'all muricans or what? You don't know what a meter is?
Pretty sure an in-game meter's congruence to a real-life meter is questionable and/or debatable.
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I'm going to use shards but I'm not spending any money on this chapter as I don't like the new Survivor or her Perks except maybe For the People.
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I call him "Unnecessary".
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Run Spine Chill. Even without Scratched Mirror that one Perk turns every Myers match into one uninterrupted KEKW.
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@JawsIsTheNextKiller said:
Even if they buff him:
- He will still be an unimaginative killer
- He still won't appeal to many people outside of America who aren't into cowboys
- He'll still be a lesser Huntress wannabe
- He still won't fit in the game
- He still won't be scary
- He will still be unplayable on console
- He still won't be Pinhead
-An undead Wild West gunslinger with a steampunk-looking harpoon gun walking around treating humans like Moby Dick is unimaginative?
-1) Pretty sure the average Australian is more into cowboys than the average American; I for one bloody hate them. 2) Cowboy or not, he's cool as hell. Babylonian priestesses don't exactly appeal to me yet I still love Plague's design.
-This is true, but even with all the nincompoops walking around going "oNi Is A bOoTlEg HilLbIlLy" people still play the hell out of him and for damn good reason. I imagine with some good tweaks, the same will be true for Poonboy here.
-That's entirely subjective. Personally I feel like Oni is the only Killer in the past year and a half that truly "belongs" in Dead By Daylight.
-This is Dead By Daylight. We don't do "scary" here.
-Console is already BHVR's unwanted child alongside Legion, so I'm not really sure how that changes much.
-Being Pinhead is a bad thing. Screw Pinhead. I hope he never gets added.
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@ScottJund said:
I mean if they take two hits you're just 1-for-1ing so you don't really lose much. Not that big of a deal tbh
I'd wager you'd need a bare minimum of 3 tokens for that, 4 or 5 if they go back to saboing fast enough. The time taken to break a hook is literally that short.
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@KingOfBadRNG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1106958#Comment_1106958
Just look out for scratchmarks or sabotaging noises before you walk up to the hook.
I guess you just missed the second part about Survivors being able to outpace you without Agitation—because I should totally be forced to bring an underwhelming, C-tier, QoL Perk to counter hooks being done in my face instead of using that Perk slot on, I don't know, something that actually facilitates my gen pressure.
Also, they don't NEED to preemptively sabotage. They can run up, get smacked, and THEN still sabo the hook, and without STBFL you're totally screwed. You see someone at a hook, chances are you aren't going to get to use it.
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@th3 said:
Just equip stbfl and stop whining, just like every killer telling survivors to equip unbreakable to counter slugging.
Ah, yes, allow me to equip a Perk to counter the Survivor's ability to literally prevent me from doing my job as a Killer. Oh, I don't have enough stacks? The person going for the sabo is the obsession, so I lose stacks on hitting them? I don't want to bring STBFL because I'm Billy/Oni/any Killer whose primary source of damage is their power instead of their main weapon and it serves next to no purpose on them?
Darn, guess I just got outplayed by the Survivor literally breaking a hook in my face without any form of counterplay aside from getting lucky with a Perk that might be low-tier on the Killer I'm playing.
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@KingOfBadRNG said:
If you see a survivor run to the hook go to another hook simple
Ah yes, let me just move to the hook that's half a Terror Radius away when I've already wasted over half my wiggle bar getting to this first hook—oh, no, I didn't bring Agitation, so other Survivors can get to the hook faster than I can!
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I would be totally fine with him being 110% if getting a hit with your power had a higher chance of getting a hit on your target than right now. Between areas with lots of debris, the sheer strength of struggling against the chain, dropping a pallet at a safe loop, and other Survivors bodyblocking, it's very easy to prevent Deathslinger from hitting the Survivor he's shot, and that to me is his biggest problem.
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@PacifiedByDaylight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1105461#Comment_1105461
Well, she can`t attack survivors instantly.
You can quickscope on Deathslinger and that is what makes him strong. Once survivor is in your line of sight he is very likely to be reeled in.
You can perform lunge attacks when reeling a survivor, maybe it is a bug, maybe a feature, but you can break the chain and hit a survivor any time. Run unrelenting and survivor can`t escape you.
EDIT: as for dragging of highgrounds, there is the same thing with quickscoping. survivor shows there and he can be reeled almost instantly into danger zone.
Huntress has to reload after 5-8 shots by wasting time at locker. New killer can reload anytime very quickly without losing a lot of time.
Huntress has her advantages, but you can`t say Deathslinger is a worse huntress. You need to try him to understand his strength, which is enough to make survivors give up.
I mean, the hitbox on the projectile is inconsistent and wonky. If you start zigzagging like a madman when you think he’s gonna shoot, chances are he’s gonna miss even if his sights are right on the money.
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@Marcus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1105451#Comment_1105451
With how messed up matchmaking is I'm not surprised to hear this. But survivors have no excuse to not finish at least 2 gens before you get your power for the first time.
Listen man, I’m all for Killer buffs as the next guy, but that’s being seriously over dramatic. Unless you get a map like Haddonfun or a place with a pseudo-infinite, Corrupt should easily help you M1 to your power before a gen goes.
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@PacifiedByDaylight said:
He can shoot his reel almost INSTANTLY
He can shut down most loops with it
He can change survivor`s position
He can drag survivors down from highgrounds (no one else can)
He can completely shut down window loops as he hits throw windows
He can attack almost instantly after CANCELING his reel
HOWEVER
He has little map pressure
He is vulnerable at high wall loops
If survivor manages to hide behind an obstacle they are very likely to escape the reel
The new killer seems to be controversial. He is easy to use and he punishes survivors for terrible positioning. Time will show. I hope devs will not nerf him immediately
Huntress can shut down more loops because her hatchet doesn't break after hitting someone with it. She can also hit Survivors on high ground without needing to drag them down first. She also has unlimited range and doesn't need to reload after every single shot. Her power also isn't completely gassed by pallets with moderate-to-long walls because, again, IT DOESN'T BREAK.
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@Marcus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1104825#Comment_1104825
How Oni has better mobility than Billy when he doesn't get mobility untill 3 gens are popped and you need to constantly refill it with Blood Orbs ?
I get my mobility before the first gen pops all the time. What are you on about.
As for Blood Orbs, there's a trade secret between us Oni mains. It's called "having more than one Survivor injured at a time".
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@Endstille said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1104825#Comment_1104825
We can have our "change my mind" thread about that another time. I disagree with all what you've said 😀
Still nothing as to why play cowboy?
I'm sorry, but Oni has so much potential it's insane. Anyone who can't see it is the only one at fault, not Oni.
As for cowboy... Yeah, just play Huntress. Or Demo if you don't like windups or being 110.
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@RobMeister88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1104785#Comment_1104785
Discordance only has information, where as Dead Man's Switch has not only information, but a slowdown effect as well. Stacked with Thrilling Tremors and good gen pressure, and almost all gens will be blocked off for 35 seconds. I agree that Hexes are too easy to be destroyed, but it still doesn't mean they're not better than non hex perks. For The People could be useful but it just makes slugging more easier for killers. I could only see coordinated SWF getting use out of it, but then who's going to protect the person who just used For The People? The person who just got saved can't take a hit unless they're using Styptic Agent, which is rarely used anymore. Autodidact is more useful. Besides, For The People is time wasting if used in the situation you just mentioned, with a huge penalty. It requires the killer being a potato tbh. Two people will be injured, and a killer who slugs will have his job made way easier.
“Discordance only has information, where as Dead Man's Switch has not only information, but a slowdown effect as well.”
The slowdown effect only triggers when A) you hook your obsession, and B) Survivors stop repairing a generator during the timer’s lifespan. So if you pressure one gen using it but someone else is doing a gen across the map, that’s not a lot of pressure you’re gaining there. And, again, it ONLY activates when hooking 1 out of 4 Survivors. Meanwhile, Discordance only requires one condition, and said condition is much more common than both of DMS’s.
“Stacked with Thrilling Tremors and good gen pressure, and almost all gens will be blocked off for 35 seconds.”
The thing is, if a gen is white because of Tremors, that’s supposed to mean a Survivor isn’t there. But you can easily mindgame Tremors by waiting out the block timer so that the gen turns white, and then the Killer has no way of knowing if someone is there or not, incentivizing them to ignore the gen, meaning you can get back on it and repair it during DMS’s timer. And, of course, Killers can only really pressure one gen at a time. And all it took to drastically hinder this Perk combo was 16 seconds of patience on the Survivor’s part.
“I agree that Hexes are too easy to be destroyed, but it still doesn't mean they're not better than non hex perks.”
Except it does. Not having the incredibly high chance to have your Perk erased completely is a HUGE drawback and exactly why most Hex Perks have such a mediocre use rate.
“For The People could be useful but it just makes slugging more easier for killers.”
... How? It literally removes the need to waste time healing a slug if you’re healthy.
“Besides, For The People is time wasting if used in the situation you just mentioned, with a huge penalty.”
- Survivor dies at window or vault
- Killer is in his weapon wipe animation
- Run up to downed Survivor
- Press E on your keyboard
- Throw down pallet if pallet, run from loop if window
- Now both of you are running away and the Killer has to run around a loop or break a pallet to get to you
- Time wasting Perk with a huge penalty
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@Endstille said:
I said that about oni and still think so. A god billy player will always be superior to an oni. What now?
I dont see a reason to play deathslinger over huntress either.
After extensively maining Oni, I can safely say that his antiloop potential in Blood Fury is vastly superior to Billy’s. By FAR.
As for mobility? I’d say they’re about the same on open maps, but on indoor maps or places with lots of debris, Oni is far more capable of using his sprint for map traversal.
Obviously the need to collect your power will hold you back without the skill of economizing your orbs. But if you do know how to keep your power on a large uptime? Yeah, a good Oni beats out a good Billy by a long shot.
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@RobMeister88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1104719#Comment_1104719
Hex perks are good (not all of em, especially Thrill of The Hunt). Old Ruin used to be meta, tell me meta perks aren't good. New Ruin is still good. Haunted Grounds is good, Devour Hope is good. Yes they can be destroyed but that's the point of them being Hexes in the first place they're high risk and high reward. Just because they can be destroyed doesn't mean they aren't good. Retribution doesn't seem to good, it's decent at best. It's way better than the new survivor's perks that's for sure. Dead Man's Switch with Thrilling Tremors and with a high mobility killer are definitely going to have great synergy. Anything that blocks off gens is easily good.
The thing is, Hexes are too easy to find and destroy to make them good. That’s why nobody runs them aside from NOED; even with such a high reward, the risk is far higher.
New Ruin good? Maybe, if you’re Billy or Oni. As for anyone else? Hell no.
I would much rather run Discordance or Surveillance over either Gearhead or Dead Man’s Switch. Higher consistency and more useful, and one is good for finding people early-game to force off gens.
As for the new Survivor’s Perks: Off the Record is total butt cheeks. Red Herring will take some creativity in how to get it to trick the Killer, but I can definitely see Survivors turning this into an actually good version of Diversion. For the People is perfect for people who are comfortable surviving while injured but still want to heal their team. Plus, imagine the potential if someone gets downed at a pallet or vault. Killer goes into weapon wipe, someone else runs up and hits the downed person with For the People and instantly picks them up old instaheal style. It’s niche, but it certainly has its uses and can easily be made ridiculous.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1104594#Comment_1104594
Deathslinger can down an injured person if he reels them in and hits them.
Except if walls exist, your odds of the chain snapping are ridiculously high. It also can’t circumnavigate pallets like hatchets can, and it has a limited range, unlike hatchets.
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@ColgateAdvancedWhite said:
No one said oni was a worse billy.
Everyone was saying the blood orbs were insane tracking tools.
You weren’t here during the PTB, then. Everywhere I went, there were fools complaining that Oni was a Billy who has to collect fuel for his chainsaw.
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@FogLurker said:
Because he's a god damned cowboy
...and this here map uh his ain't big enough fur thuh three uh them.
You say that like being a cowboy is a good thing and not a done-to-death trope.
Also as far I can tell the new map is quite large.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1103984#Comment_1103984
Corrupt does exist, but you can only chase one Survivor.
I've had excellent success with that build.
Unless they become immersed, which they usually do. I suppose that's where the tracking comes in, right?
Yes, that’s where the constant irremovable coughing and vomiting comes in.
I’ve also had excellent success with a Legion build designed purely for pissing around and not giving one because no matter what you run on Legion you’re going to get your cheeks clapped. Not saying it’s a BAD build, just that there are better ones that don’t require an Ultra Rare addon.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1103962#Comment_1103962
Meh, you have almost zero slowdown. Gens will fly.
Not sure why you are so aggressive tho
- I guess Corrupt doesn’t exist, huh?
- Not like slowdown does anything, anyway. If it did, gens wouldn’t be an issue because you could just run Perks to shut that down. But guess what counters gen slowdown Perks? You guessed it: Doing gens!
- If you use your Corrupt well, you can get two or three downs before the Survivors get significant gen pressure.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1103880#Comment_1103880
How is constantly showing aura's a bad thing?
The apples are not THAT good.
Seriously, Infectivity + Black Incense with PGTW, Thana, Dying Light and Corrupt Intervention.
Infectious, Thrilling, Monitor, Corrupt.
The Perks do all the tracking for you and effectively remove the need for Black Incense if you have a brain. Then you can throw on Apples to become a discount Huntress that has more anti-loop than Huntress does.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1101022#Comment_1101022
Black Incense is definitely her strongest add-on
I agree, Black Incense is her strongest addon... If you’re a bumbling moron who can’t track with what Plague has in her basekit.
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@Elena said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1103831#Comment_1103831
If that's the case then cleansing is a core mechanic of the Plague's power. If looping is a mechanic of the game then so is slugging and camping.
The difference is, it’s not Plague who gets to choose when the Survivors cleanse. It’s the Survivors. And if they can loop, they have literally no reason to do so.
Slugging is a mechanic of the game. Maybe not a core one, but a mechanic nonetheless. That’s why the devs introduced Perks to both facilitate and to counter it, instead of just adjusting or removing the mechanic.
If the Killer wants to camp, then he can go right ahead. Instead of worrying about saving your mate in this COMPETITIVE SURVIVAL GAME you can instead hammer gens while the Killer waits for one person to die.
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@Elena said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1103790#Comment_1103790
Unfortunately looping isn't always the answer, as you have newer players who do not even know what looping is. It's not the same for everyone. Some new survivors will have trouble finding which areas to loop at, so without saying "git gud" maybe consider those who aren't as experienced will have a harder time counteracting Plague.
If they are so inexperienced that they can’t loop, or can’t loop for any other reason, then “gitting gud” is literally the solution to their problem. Looping is a core mechanic of the game, and if you can’t loop, you can’t utilize a core mechanic of the game. The only reasonable solution is to figure out what the hell you're doing and, yes, to git gud.
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@Elena said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1103749#Comment_1103749
For point no.2 I have to slightly disagree with; choosing not to cleanse slowly injures you overtime and allows her to get an insta-down. So if you choose to cleanse it adds more power for her. If you choose not to cleanse you can't heal (unless you cleanse o.o) and she eventually knocks you down (unless you bring Iron Will but that's a different story). So it's that part of her power which is the issue.
- Iron Will doesn’t do anything against her because it doesn’t stop sickness noises. I complained about that in my original post.
- Just... loop? Being injured isn’t scary.
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@Elena said:
As a solo survivor, I can't stress enough how incredibly tense it is to go against a plague. This is because I am unable to communicate with my teammates and they all repeatedly cleanse in the fountains which just adds more power to her corrupt purge. I'm alone in those situations so I can't really request for them to stop cleansing or try and evade the killer.
Yes, cleansing is kind of forced upon you when playing survivor. But the more you cleanse the more power it adds to her base kit. The apple add on becoming part of her base kit just makes her incredibly strong and adds more pressure for the solo survivors compared to the SWF. I'm pretty sure the devs decreed that they were going to try and close the gap between solo players and SWF players, not draw them closer in a bad way.
P.S, I'm not an entitled survivor main if I come across that way, I play both sides and I agree with OP's post that the apple becoming part of Plague's base kit will make her incredibly strong. I'm not complaining because it affects all survivors, I'm defending how it is stressful enough for solo survivor's to go against a killer that forces you to cleanse yourself just to add more deadly power for the killer herself. The apple add on pushes that further for the solo players.
- Dumb Survivors cleansing against Plague and willfully handing her a power doesn’t make her a good Killer. It just makes those Survivors really, really stupid.
- You're never forced to cleanse against Plague. One of the points of this post, and the issue most people have with Plague, is that cleansing is such a stupid option and not cleansing is superior in nearly every way because it denies Plague her entire power.
- We’re all aware that solo que is hell. Trust me, I’d know. But again, braindead Survivors being braindead doesn’t make a Killer good or strong—something that Plague is far from.
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@Cable2486 said:
So if I'm understanding you correctly, because she does what she's designed to do, which is herd Survivors and eliminate their ability to effectively hide from her or work cooperatively (to an extent), you see her as terribly designed? Then, if her power isn't causing damage, it's useless? First, with the current set of perks available to Killers, especially new ruin, she's one nasty mama jama (or can be in the right hands). Second, if you think she's a weak killer, you've clearly not gone against a skilled Main. Either way, you're entitled to your opinions, even if they aren't well founded.
Sorry to be so blunt, but so few actually are able to utilize her to her fullest extent because they want a simple, easy to use power that doesn't take much strategy to work with. Survivors want to be able to play however they want with all killers, regardless of their power, and that's the whole reason WHY they made her the way they did. It was a purposeful intent to force such a decision on Survivors as another means of putting control into the Killers hands, which is the way it should be.
Simply put, it's not the Survivors that should determine the flow of the matches and their play styles, but the Killers. As a Survivor, it's your job to find ways to effectively work within the situation given to you to complete your objectives as dictated by the Killer you're playing against. Conversely, the Killer is given different characters with kits, perks, and build opportunities to maximize what they can against a team with unknown counter play variants that may or may not be effective in the current trial. That's the WHOLE POINT. That Adiris suppresses certain play styles was a conscious decision, and a good one. Just because you don't like it, doesn't make it a terrible design. It does however make you sound very entitled.
So I guess completely deleting a set of mechanics and play styles that are already incredibly weak and underused in exchange for having *literally no power power in a chase* is good game design for a very strong Killer with a lot of pressure?
“Simply put, it's not the Survivors that should determine the flow of the matches and their play styles, but the Killers. As a Survivor, it's your job to find ways to effectively work within the situation given to you to complete your objectives as dictated by the Killer you're playing against.”
The thing is, the best strategy of what to do against Plague is so obvious it hurts: Don’t cleanse. Because if you don’t cleanse, she doesn’t have a power. She has no chase, no mobility, just tracking that nobody cares about because looping is superior to stealth anyway. Countering Plague is extremely easy to understand and to do, and yet despite this, she’s still annoying no matter what.
Also, thinking new Ruin is good on a Killer with literally no mobility KEKW
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How to play Legun:
- Survivor not injured
- Turn on Frenzy
- injure Survivor
- See other Survivors glow red
- Run towards them
- They run away
- Fatigue
- Darn gaming
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You know what would be a good April Fools prank? Something that the devs would never do. Such as, I don't know...
Buffing Clown.
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@mylesmylo said:
I'm not reading all of that 😂 can someone else shorten it for me and tell me what changes are coming for her.
The change coming to her is that she now starts a trial with one pool of devotion already corrupted, similar to her Apple addons. I’m saying that this highlights the problems with Plague and how choosing between being sick or giving her Corrupt Purge is such a big issue, and that instead of just giving her free Corrupt because no one wants to cleanse, they should make it so that being sick does more bad things to Survivors, but Corrupt Purge gets pulled back, so that the choice between cleansing or not cleansing isn’t so obvious and Plague has something going for her either way.
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@AChaoticKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1101489#Comment_1101489
if encountering unbreakable is meta why is it not ran on everyone? i at most see it in every 2-3 games and it rarely works out, also than what is the meta to you? because good survivors still use exhaustion perks and even healing perks or items. Would you please stop being so ignorant and cherry picky, you yourself literally said that exhaustion perks are meta and are run constantly yet now you say that good survivors dont run the meta which is total BS and you know it. A survivor who is good will more than likely still run the meta wither you agree with that or not, and as i said before even if they are not running it, being one shot against plague who can easily find you will result in a shorter chase because getting a single hit is not that hard.
"if encountering unbreakable is meta why is it not ran on everyone?"
It is for me. I see it at least once per game.
"because good survivors still use exhaustion perks and even healing perks or items. Would you please stop being so ignorant and cherry picky, you yourself literally said that exhaustion perks are meta and are run constantly yet now you say that good survivors dont run the meta which is total BS and you know it."
That's not what I said at ALL. I never said that good Survivors don't run the meta. I said they don't RELY on it. They don't NEED it. That won't stop them from running it in the slightest if they want to win, because, you know, it's the meta. If their meta gets messed with, sure, it may hinder them somewhat, but that doesn't screw them over like it does to Survivors who truly rely on it. There are still plenty of aspects of the Survivor's base kit that makes them entirely capable in the fields of chasing and doing gens that prevents good Survivors from needing the meta. The meta will only take these good, strong Survivors and make them even stronger. But even without the meta, if they're actually good at the game, congrats, you're in for a rough time.
"being one shot against plague who can easily find you will result in a shorter chase because getting a single hit is not that hard."
You know what's even less hard? Not getting hit in the first place.
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@FrenziedRoach said:
You fail to understand that killer's are supposed to break survivor toolkits in some way. Some of them break or cut-off loops (Trapper, Nurse, Huntress), some break their ability to sense by terror radius (Myers, Ghost Face), yet others have incredible map mobility (Hillbilly, Hag, Oni)
Breaking stealth is also a thing, or have you forgotten that Doc pretty much DELETES STEALTH?
I prefer stealth myself, but I've learned to accept that sometimes I will be pulled outside my comfort zone by the doc and the plague, why haven't you?
"You fail to understand that killer's are supposed to break survivor toolkits in some way. Some of them break or cut-off loops (Trapper, Nurse, Huntress), some break their ability to sense by terror radius (Myers, Ghost Face), yet others have incredible map mobility (Hillbilly, Hag, Oni)"
The difference is that those can all be outplayed in some way. If Trapper sets up a trap, you don't fall for it and figure out where he hasn't trapped, or you simply move around it. If it's a Nurse, you learn how to outmaneuver and outplay her. If it's a Huntress, you do the same. If it's stealth Killer, you either use your eyes, or you have Spine Chill equipped and their power doesn't exist anymore. If it's a high-map pressure Killer, you pound gens and loop hard enough that even such pressure will be strained.
Doc does not delete stealth. He counters it every now and again when his blast hits someone, but outside of that, stealthing a Doc is entirely possible. Plus, if you hate Doc enough, you can just bring Calm Spirit and bam, you've hard-countered his anti-stealth.
With Plague? You just can't heal or stealth at all. She literally deletes it. It's actually physically undoable. The only way to get it back is to give her Huntress 2.0, and then she can just rip it all away again whenever she's done with that little power trip. There's no outplaying Plague's anti-heal or anti-stealth. It cannot happen.
"I prefer stealth myself, but I've learned to accept that sometimes I will be pulled outside my comfort zone by the doc and the plague, why haven't you?"
I have accepted that. The difference is I actually enjoy being outplayed and challenged to do well with my playstyle rather than just "haha your build literally doesn't exist against me".
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@AChaoticKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1101372#Comment_1101372
This breaks what i said about not responding but do you listen? She needs to use a certain play style to be strong and what do you think that play style counters? Exhaustion perks!!! her power itself counters all healing perks!!! which is literally half or more of what survivors use in the meta!!!
any exhaustion perk and any healing perk is countered by simple using her power and blood echo and to apply more pressure to the gens use pgtw, to find them use bbq and infectious fright. if they cleanse your now an A tier killer since her corrupt purge is literally a stream of damage thats easy to land on survivors.
as i have said many times plague and any other killer can be good if you use a certain play style and or perk build. you SHOULD NOT only rely on the base kit to determine if the killer is good. otherwise all survivors should just not run any perks but they wont because that's ridiculous.
as for second chance perks unless you tunnel which i dont i will at most slug someone if they just got unhooked, than the only second chance perks that could make a difference would be unbreakable and maybe deliverance and they are not meta.
" She needs to use a certain play style to be strong and what do you think that play style counters? Exhaustion perks!!! her power itself counters all healing perks!!! which is literally half or more of what survivors use in the meta!!!"
So you just learn to play without all those Exhaustion and free healing Perks. That's what Survivors who are actually good do, and it's how Survivors who are good make Plague terrible. There's a difference between using the meta and relying on it. If you rely on it, you suck. If you use it, well that just makes you a winning-centric person.
"any exhaustion perk and any healing perk is countered by simple using her power and blood echo and to apply more pressure to the gens use pgtw, to find them use bbq and infectious fright."
See my above point of Survivors who are actually good not relying on healing and Exhaustion to do well. Once they learn how to loop, PGTW becomes ass because you won't be getting any hooks any time soon. BBQ has 50 counters and I'd rather run Tremors. Infectious is good, but again, if they can loop without Exhaustion reliance, you're boned.
"as for second chance perks unless you tunnel which i dont i will at most slug someone if they just got unhooked, than the only second chance perks that could make a difference would be unbreakable and maybe deliverance and they are not meta."
Unbreakable IS meta. What the hell are you on? Second chance items are useless against her? Borrowed Time? Adrenaline's speed boost? Decisive in literally any situation where the Survivors have pressure and if you don't pick that Survivor up, you're hurting yourself? The mere existence of safe windows and pallets?
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1101335#Comment_1101335
Exactly. Walking to a fountain can waste ALOT of time. That's why sometimes I don't even rely on Corrupt. I don't even think it's worth it at some points.
Some people are just making sound like she is some god when she gets her corrupt. 🤣
@AChaoticKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1101335#Comment_1101335
yea her power on her own isn't too strong which is why you need certain perks, she has always been a perk based killer and thats not a bad thing, only killers who need certain addons to be viable are bad.
This is true, I will admit. But I don't find it to be nearly as problematic as you make it out to be. If it is in a suboptimal position at first, it's entirely possible to simply play around it and bide your time until it IS in a position that doesn't require you to walk one thousand miles. And if you get close to a fountain during a chase? May God have mercy on that Survivor's soul, and anyone who may be nearby.
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@Zoldyar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1101171#Comment_1101171
I couldn't agree more with what you said about Plague. My question is that how would you solve the problems with her to make her fun for both sides? Obviously, it's easy to complain about something rather than giving an answer on how to solve it.
When reading your sentence, even though you said you are not calling her op and all. It still comes across as you saying she is broken or should be nerf.
Just want to make sure you know that.
Firstly, I would make Vile Purge do something drastically different than just making people broken and forcing constant sick noises. I would reduce the rates at which Survivors make sick sounds and remove the green smoke that rises from their body when fully infected. I would also make sick Survivors able to heal. In exchange, I would make it so that being sick gradually increases the risk of stumbling a little bit, so that beelining towards a vault or something isn't as braindead easy and makes getting away harder. I would also make skill checks much more frequent and much more difficult, with peak difficulty and no possibility for great skill checks when fully sick. I would say reduce repair speed, but I think the solution to gen times is adding a second mandatory objective, because let's be real: doing gens is bloody boring. There are also ways to maybe inflict actual delirium and mental degradation from severe sickness on Survivors, such as the vomit VFX obstructing your vision more and making chases more cumbersome, or muddying the Plague's Terror Radius at certain distances to confuse the Survivor unless they keep an eye out for the Killer. As for Corrupt, I still want it to be strong, but not nearly as easy as right now. I'd say that increasing the amount of time you need to hold it would be a good change so you can't just hold M2 for a fraction of a second and hit a Survivor from a distance away immediately.
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@AChaoticKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1101323#Comment_1101323
im sorry i meant to say solo survivor since thats how i play, and again your literally calling every survivor i played against trash. like i said earlier its like talking to a brink wall so im just going to leave this here since you are literally like talking to a brick wall who refuses to accept anything that doesn't suit your argument to the point where you call everyone i play against weak which is just plane ignorance.
I agree, solo Survivor is annoying and difficult to rank up with. When I play Survivor, I never go in any SWF. I never bring "meta" Perks. I prefer to be altrusitic and help others rather than do gens and loop. But the fact of the matter is, that's not how the majority of Survivors play at red ranks. They play with voice comms. They run Exhaustion Perks. They run Perks that give them edges while injured. They run second chance Perks. They try to loop for as long as possible so that the Killer is distracted and can't pressure gens. They hammer gens so that the Killer has to make chases extremely short to have decent pressure. They run the meta. And the meta is both ridiculously easy and ridiculously powerful. That's why what we're doing when we play Survivor is called "non-meta." That's why we have a harder time ranking up. And that's why rank is so rarely indicative of skill, because almost everyone at high ranks runs the meta, and the current meta is so easy to master it's insane.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1101250#Comment_1101250
You can say it as many times as you'd like.
Being sick/broken makes you vulnerable. You are one hit away from getting downed. Someone without exhaustion perks, someone who mainly brought healing perks and stays sick isn't going to have much to rely on.
A lot of the why survivors should cleanse depends on the skill of the killer. If the killer is bad with Vile Purge, they will be bad with Corrupt Purge. Which is why I think you are putting too much emphasis on closing the gap between Vile and Corrupt.
Just loop. That's all I can say. Just loop.
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@Dahliasdollie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1101296#Comment_1101296
"I think this new change is a perfect example of Plague's terrible game design. Survivors were given a choice of what to do against her, and the choice was always terribly obvious because one option made Plague insanely strong while the other made her insanely weak. " This is what you said. Correct me if im wrong but from what you're saying it sounds like you still want that choice and option. And if you wanna bring the factor of fun in this, i want loops gone, they are annoying and unfun to go against.
Yes, you are wrong. I want Survivors to be forced to actually make a choice. Right now the choice is totally obvious; one option denies Plague any semblance of a useful power while the other makes her Huntress but easy as pie. I want the choices to be more balanced in how they affect the Plague's strength, so that Survivors cannot control the Plague's power and actually need to make a decision.
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@AChaoticKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1101266#Comment_1101266
thats a good list but im talking about one of my mains who i constantly do good with, she is my second most played killer behind hag and while you can get to red rank with any killer its still a lot harder to do so with survivor. unless you have literally played over 100 games with plague or in my case more, by your own words how do you know what survivors you played against were trash? or if you just versed some good survivors while you were only semi-decent with plague. because i have faced plenty of groups who know how to loop and do gens effectively yet i still came out on top.
"while you can get to red rank with any killer its still a lot harder to do so with survivor."
... Are you okay? Getting to red rank as Survivor is piss easy. That's literally the problem. That's WHY rank doesn't indicate skill. Ranking up is too easy to do.
"by your own words how do you know what survivors you played against were trash?"
I don't. Which is EXACTLY WHY I'm stating rank is irrelevant.
"i have faced plenty of groups who know how to loop and do gens effectively yet i still came out on top."
Then they either made plenty of mistakes such as being too altruism-heavy or trying to pull off certain stunts, or they aren't as good as you're saying.
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@thesuicidefox said:
When Plague can use Corrupt Purge she is actually a very strong killer. I'm happy with this change because it means she can actually use her power and will be at the level she SHOULD be.
However this change make apples somewhat obsolete, so I hope the devs decide to rework those add-ons now. Maybe something like they increase cleanse time, that would be reasonable.
The problem with this is that Corrupt shouldn't be the ONLY avenue at which Plague gets to have a real power. Like I've stated NUMEROUS times in this thread, I'm not saying that Plague should receive a blanket nerf because of how strong Corrupt is; I'm saying that Vile Purge should be buffed in tandem to a nerf to Corrupt so that the choice between cleansing and not cleansing actually has weight, and Survivors can't just deny Plague's power with one choice while at the same time getting bent over no matter what choice they make because Corrupt is so powerful.
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@Dahliasdollie said:
Another form of survivor bias showing. You're basically saying "Survivors should have control over the killers powers, btw i dont care if you can't play off meta killers because survivors demolish them. Survivors should be able to to have any meta, looping, stealth, healer I DONT CARE." Moving on....
That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying the complete opposite of everything you just said, in fact. I'm saying that the gap between Vile and Corrupt Purge should be narrowed so that cleansing or not cleansing is a less obvious decision with more weight, and no matter what decision, the Survivors don't get to control the Plague's power, and the decision they make should not affect whether or not she gets a foothold, but rather what kind of foothold she gets. I'm also saying that Plague encourages an unfun, overpowered Survivor meta and should be tweaked to encourage Perk diversity to help lower the chances of Killers facing the same builds every single game.
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@AChaoticKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1101229#Comment_1101229
i have come to conclusion that you yourself probably are not good enough to make killers viable with appropriate builds and also saying that everyone i play against as plague is trash is... a very illogical and ignorant way of thinking to say the least. if you want to argue like that then i might as well be talking to an anti vaxxer or a brick wall.
Well, if you want to bring rank or even simply knowing how to play Killer into it, here's a list of all the Killers I've hit red rank with and have been able to 4k with consistently:
-Oni
-Ghostface (without the anti-heal build)
-Old Freddy
-Demogorgon
-Legion
-Myers
-Spirit
-Plague (without ever using Corrupt)
All while wasting a Perk slot on Shadowborn on everyone listed except Old Freddy and Spirit.