Demogordon_Ramsay
Demogordon_Ramsay
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@gantes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1062256#Comment_1062256
OK so I HATE this "power role" discourse. DBD isn't a horror game for anyone who played it for over 10 hours. That's just not how fear works. And no one wants to play a weak role.
You can argue killer overall is weaker than it should be and I'd most likely agree but by god this is a videogame meant to be fun for both sides not a killer player powertrip simulator
@ScottJund said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1062256#Comment_1062256
Ugh will people please stop with this "power role" and "DBD is a Horror game" bullshit. Neither side should be the power role, it should be balanced so both sides have combined equal power. DBD is a horror game for the first week you play it, then its a cat-and-mouse game for the next 6000 hours.
"Survivors should feel...defenseless to the point of fear." Please. This isn't Amnesia: The Dark Descent. This game would be absolute trash if that's how every survivor felt. "Hey guys lets group and feel like a chew toy for 10 minutes, sounds great!"
Do you people not know how the “power role” works? A member of the power role is meant to be so much more powerful than a member of the weak role to the point where the combined force of the multiple members of the weak role are equivalent to the singular force of the power role, assuming everyone is of equal skill. That’s what a “power role” is, and yes, that is what the Killer vs. Survivor match-up should be. Killers need to be the power role because if a Survivor is capable of 1v1ing a Killer of equal skill, then at that point, it’s just a team of 4 versus 1 guy.
There are quadruple the amount of Survivors in a match than there are Killers. By that rule, in order to be properly balanced, a Killer’s kit should be four times stronger than a Survivor’s kit. Otherwise, why would you ever play Killer when you can just play Survivor and have an automatic sheer advantage?
In short: Yes, Killers should be the power role. That’s how this works.
In regards to DBD being a horror game: Yes, I agree, it’s not scary. But the thing is, it’s supposed to be. It’s meant to be. It was designed by its makers to be. If they want it to be scary, then the Killers need to feel overwhelmingly imposing. Simple as.
As for you, Scott...
”This game would be absolute trash if that's how every survivor felt. "Hey guys lets group and feel like a chew toy for 10 minutes, sounds great!"”
Bro, that is literally makes horror games fun. Let me repeat: THAT IS WHY PEOPLE PLAY HORROR GAMES. If people weren’t entertained by feeling like a chew toy, horror would not be nearly as popular a genre as it is. But not only is it popular; it’s oversaturated to a ridiculous degree because of just how much people adore the feeling of being scared from how defenseless they are.
If you don’t want to feel like a chew toy, that’s fine. Don’t play horror games. It’s simple.
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@ScottJund said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1062229#Comment_1062229
Well...are you expecting the role in which you are 100% of the team to somehow be less stressful and less reliant on mistakes than the role in which you are 25% of your team?
Considering it’s meant to be the power role and the entire population of the weak role should have their skills as individuals and as a team consistently strained against the power role, yes, I expect exactly that. Considering Dead By Daylight is meant to be a horror game, meaning Survivors should feel so utterly oppressed and defenseless to the point of fear, I expect that in ever greater quantity.
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@ScottJund said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1062171#Comment_1062171
He didn't just make "one" mistake. I'm saying I saw one massive mistake in the first two minutes. During that time he also smashed into a bunch of ######### (being Yamaoka's that's totally fair).
Both sides are going to make numerous mistakes. No one ever plays perfectly. You say survivors can make more mistakes which again is reliant on the butterfly effect. Say a survivor does make that mistake, gets caught out of position, then gets hooked in a deadzone. Now down the line, he's endangering the rescuer, potentially killing both of them now, all because he made one mistake at one point. People pay attention to things like DS and Unbreakable and say "Look at all the second chances survivors have" which again, I don't disagree with, it can be annoying as hell getting "outperked", but they also tend to ignore the fact that survivor mistakes can be just as costly as killer mistakes.
Yes, they can be. The issue is, they often aren’t. Second chance Perks are one thing, but dropping a pallet or two a little early or getting hit when you shouldn’t have will usually be meaningless if you are given the resources (spelt “loops”) to keep the Killer going further. That and, well, unlike Killers, Survivors have 3 entire teammates to pick up their slack. A killer simply cannot be in multiple places at once and reach people from afar in a timely manner, unless that’s the idea behind their power, like Hag or Huntress.
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@ScottJund said:
A lot of people still really don't get how snowbally this game is. A single different decision earlier in the game could have stopped two generators from being completed as fast as they were. At like 1:57 he tunnels the Yui instead of going for the rescuer. This alone cost him two gens. If he didn't tunnel the Yui, he would have downed the rescuer (who had no pallet since it was just broken), saved that generator, patrolled to the other generator that got completed, and would have gotten people off of that generator as well. The simple act of downing the rescuer instead of tunneling the Yui would have 100% saved those two gens for a far longer time, while also having people hooked against Hillbilly in a zone without pallets now, spelling certain death later as people rescued.
The entire game is a butterfly effect. Games where you make one mistake can create the illusion of genrushing because everything snowballs so fast from one mistake.
This video was not a good example IMO. Also, after nearly 10 minutes, they didn't even do all the generators with two very good toolboxes and Prove Thyself. That being said, I'm not saying there isn't an issue. Clown on this map in this situation would have been a way better example of being nearly helpless. Really any killer without map control would have been a better example.
This wasn't one.
This is... literally what we’re saying, Scott. A single additional mistake on Otz’s part or even the decision to play a Killer who isn’t top tier would have completely cost him this game, despite the fact that he was clearly so much better than these Survivors. The fact that Survivors came so close to victory when they were getting this stomped goes to show that Killers literally cannot afford to make a single mistake while Survivors can afford to make plenty. Hell, if he was playing some trash tier meme machine like Legion or Plague, he could have played literally perfectly and it wouldn’t have mattered.
The point isn’t whether or not he won. The point is that he came so close to not winning as a top-tier Killer who was clearly leagues above all four of the Survivors in terms of skill.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1062064#Comment_1062064
No I'm saying the game is not easy at a competitive level.
It evidently isn’t for Survivors if being this absolutely terrible can get you this close to winning.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1062009#Comment_1062009
Why is it always imagine? Why not show proof where it actually happens, oh wait it doesn't.
Otz played far from optimally in that vid and wasted perk slots as well I have gathered. Stop getting riled up and look at the facts: running a meme build isn't going to guarantee you an easy win. Hell, at the competitive level there are pretty much no easy wins without moris or toolboxes.
“Why is it always imagine? Why not show proof where it actually happens, oh wait it doesn't.”
It actually does, and you can easily google videos of people destroying or getting destroyed with the simple art of doing gens—seriously, these types of videos are literally everywhere—but you just pretend they don’t exist to fit your narrative.
“Otz played far from optimally in that vid and wasted perk slots as well I have gathered. Stop getting riled up and look at the facts: running a meme build isn't going to guarantee you an easy win.”
- Okay, he made a few mistakes and some luck screwed him at a few points. Doesn’t change the fact that his playing was a million times better than the neon-haired monkeys he was playing against.
- What does it matter that two of his Perk slots were questionable? Not only did he still get use out of them, including being able to pull off a mindgame thanks to Zanshin Tactics at one point, but two of his Perks were meta Perks. His build was strange, but it was far from a “meme” build.
“Hell, at the competitive level there are pretty much no easy wins without moris or toolboxes.”
So you’re literally admitting that against good Survivors, you’re totally screwed without the strongest possible things you could bring and only show up very scantily in your bloodweb, meanwhile the only necessary things Survivors need (which is total bs by the way; toolboxes are not mandatory at all) are one of the most common items in their bloodwebs? Do you not see the issue here?
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1061946#Comment_1061946
WTH? Do you want killers to be able to get guaranteed 5 gen 4ks? There is nothing wrong with an optimal killer letting 4 gens and 1 survivor go, dbd shouldn't be a hopeless stomp fest, for lore or balance reasons.
Did you even read what I said at all? Otz consistently outplayed these Survivors and made them look like the fools they were. They died, over and over and over, and almost none of them were able to properly mindgame or loop. He decimated them in chases and was constantly putting immense pressure up. He was clearly better than them by several leagues.
And it almost literally did not matter, because they knew how to hold M1 on gens.
Again, imagine if these Survivors could actually loop. Imagine if Otz wasn’t playing Billy and instead was using any other Killer who was so much less map pressure. Imagine if he had decided not to bring Discordance and/or BBQ. Imagine if Otz had made one single substantial mistake. These Survivors would still have been terrible, but this time around, it literally wouldn’t mean anything because the odds would be totally stacked against Otz. He would have pretty much lost automatically.
I’m not saying every game should be a 5-gen 4k. But when your Survivors are clearly markedly inferior to you in terms of skill, and you’re stomping them this hard, you shouldn’t be almost on the brink of defeat with 1 generator remaining. That’s absolutely ridiculous.
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I have seen it. This is why the excuse of “the survivors don’t escape until 5 gens are done” is literally irrelevant. It didn’t matter that he got a 4k minus hatch; what matters is the amount of pressure he was putting on.
And the amount of pressure he was putting on was monstrous. Right off the bat, he’s getting downs and hooks without even thinking about it. 3 downs in the first 90 seconds. He was wiping the floor with these Survivors.
And they still managed to get 4 gens done.
If Otz’s playing had been any less immaculate, he would have lost big time. These survivors didn’t even chase. They went down almost immediately every time. And it almost didn’t matter, because they knew how to hold M1 on gens.
Even when the Survivors are so much objectively worse than the Killer is at the game, the Killer still nevertheless struggled. Now imagine a game where the Survivors actually manage to loop the Killer for once, or playing any Killer that doesn’t have the same insane map pressure that Billy has. Otz would have lost that game for sure with no chance of counterplay.
This is why gen times are an issue. This is why “just apply pressure lol“ is a garbage argument. He DID apply pressure. He applied metric tons of it. And it was almost all for nothing because the Survivors knew how to hold M1 on generators.
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@avilmask said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1060901#Comment_1060901
You do you, I gave you two videos from 2018 and from 2020 that both confirm the behavior.
Didn't see yours so I call your point "untrustworthy".
I’ll trust my own self continuing to freely dominate as Spirit whenever I feel like being a toxic sonuvabitch.
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@avilmask said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1060880#Comment_1060880
Oh, so it was bugged. So I guess I should make a report that since first time I ever used it it never gave any sounds in injured state. Oh boy people gonna be happy when Iron Will will be fixed at least. Come on, man, why are doing this?
Why are we? Because you’re trying to sit here and tell me that Iron Will counters Spirit when it just makes injured Survivors the same as healthy Survivors that Spirit needs to hit in order to activate Iron Will.
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@avilmask said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1060404#Comment_1060404
I can't believe somebody actually trying to convince someone NOT KNOWING about it. Like, seriously, before even trying to "not argue" about a thing at least watch a video or something. Here, random video from internet:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJ5_316Fkto
0:40 she runs healthy, 7:12 she runs injured, only footsteps (damn, I miss those times!).
Video is too old for you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n0h28xyEek
2:20 HEAVY BREATHING, like a smoker, 6:15 silent running, no breathing, only footsteps.
Please, do your home work before arguing!
I have done my homework, it’s called “I play Spirit and this doesn’t happen to me.”
Seriously, this small sample of crappy bugs hardly makes a case. Iron Will does NOT make your running silent. You are seriously crazy if you think that’s a feature.
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@Wesker said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1060559#Comment_1060559
You have Iron Will, the new Balanced Landing, the sounds bugged on purpose by those clueless devs, Spine Chill, Quick&Quiet. Just looking at your previous replies you told something about Stridor on her, which tells me you never played a single round as Spirit becouse Stridor makes her misjudge their positions, scream pains are too loud. At least complain about father's glasses to give up a good argument. Nerfing a killer who brings a challenge to the game, means that this community is ridicously braindead.
Actually, my go-to build on Spirit is BBQ, Monitor, Pop, and Devour Hope. I don’t use Stridor because I don’t think it’s useful because unlike you, I can hear just fine, and thus I win for free.
When the bugged sounds started becoming really problematic, I stopped playing Spirit because I thought I would actually have to start putting effort into her to do well, and I played Spirit for that exact opposite purpose. However, I can still brute-force my way to a 4K without relying on anything except bugged audio just fine.
My personal favorite Spirit match was where I absolutely destroyed a team who had 3 Iron Will users with no effort whatsoever. It was pretty lit.
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@Wesker said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1060474#Comment_1060474
Rank is a prank in the current state of the balance. Even my grandma can hit high ranks as both killer and survivor
And, yes Mr. Oni, I guess even my spirit does godlike in the game map. Again, I want to see you playing him in Badham or Hawkins agaist toolboxes xD
I get Badham as Oni quite often, and I almost always Hulk smash the entire team. And even if Hawkins is annoying and claustrophobic, it’s one of the few maps in this game that are legitimately Killer-sided, so I don’t really see what you’re on about.
@Wesker said:
At least, the Spirit is one of the most balanced killers in the game. She has a chase potential that the Hillbilly can see just in his dreams, good map presence with proper add-on. If you hate her, this could be cuz you get bullied by a very solid spirit user. Idk who, but sure he bullied you so hard that he made you feel stupid :) @Demogordon_Ramsay
Spirit is the strongest Killer in the game and simultaneously the easiest to learn. Her ability is to disable the Survivors’ ability to see at her at all while simultaneously moving faster than a Sprint Burst user, and in exchange she has to use her ears instead of her eyes. If that’s balanced, then it’s a good thing gen times go so fast because if this game were actually balanced, Spirit would be completely broken.
Anyway, like I said earlier, I probably do more bullying as Spirit than I do getting bullied as Spirit, since most Spirit players are complete trash (hence why they’re playing Spirit), meanwhile playing as Spirit is basically a free win.
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@Wesker said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1060396#Comment_1060396
Yes, he was decent with the old ruin, now you have to slug to make him good and I don't like this playstyle, which works just on small maps. Enjoy your offering to go to the Game all the time and hope they don't bring offerings for other maps as well lol.
Btw, I always talk with high skill level survivors in mind. If you get a 4slug man in Badham as the Oni, well they suck lol
Also for the record, the Game is one of Oni’s best maps. He has strafing in his dash and doesn’t get punished for bumping into things. He’s not Billy for crying out loud. He has some of the best mobility on indoor maps in the game (except for Hawkins because that place is ridiculously claustrophobic).
Verse me on the Game. I’ll play Oni and clap your cheeks so incredibly hard your ancient ancestors will feel it. Mark my words.
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@Wesker said:
If they put a new add-on which let him start the trial with a Demon-charge ready to strike he could become a solid B tier.
No way the Oni can handle the meta in the current state, you are overstimating him and that's all
Alright, I guess my straight two months of being a red rank Oni main since he came out and beginning to do consistently well with him as I improved means jack diddly squat.
Seriously man, all I can say is git gud. Oni is one of the few Killers in this game whose skill curve is actually steep, and a good Oni will have his way with you any day of the week.
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@avilmask said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1060060#Comment_1060060
They dont, i run bill with iron will and prefer to be injured because he's a big mouth breather. Also I WISH survs made those sounds, like meg running, when i play killer. Injured iron will makes 0 sound, none. Even standing still breathing isnt there. And trust me, killers find you by those.Only stepping sound give them out, and even this is broken atm on some maps.
I’m not going to argue this with you. I have picked up the sounds of Survivors breathing normally while using Iron Will, and those alongside every other sound they make are completely the same as when they are healthy. If you can’t hear it, then you either need hearing aids or Stridor, because it’s absolutely there.
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@Wesker said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1060074#Comment_1060074
Your survivor bias is showing bro, the oni is currently exactly what survivor want to get a free win. I've seen loads of Oni struggling to finally get that demon dash and in the meanwhile 3 gen popped and he can still be looped, nice b8
Have you tried actually gitting gud with him? I used to think Oni was one of the worst Killers in the game, but frankly, he’s one of the best. I bet you just think he’s bad because neither you nor most people are used to playing Killers with an actually reasonably steep skill curve.
I don’t typically agree with Scott on a lot of things, but this basic guide should give you some ideas how to play Oni.
https://youtu.be/KfvciT6nnB8 -
@Wesker said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1060060#Comment_1060060
Do you really wanna make killer life a living hell i guess becouse of being a salt factory
You just lose against a good spirit and you are tossing salt here hoping they will turn her in a kinda of old freddy
I probably play more Spirit than I do Survivor because a) Survivor is boring as hell, and b) Spirit is an absolute piss take. She’s not hard at all. Old Legion took more skill than Spirit does.
Even Killers I despise going against I can still admit are in dire need of buffs. Trapper, Clown, Wraith—They piss me off, but I agree, they need buffed. Spirit, though? I hope she gets gutted. The only good thing to ever come out of Spirit’s existence is Oni. Oni is the best thing to ever happen to this game. Aside from that, I wish she never existed. Spirit is for Billy mains who want to convince themselves they’re playing a skill-based top-tier Killer.
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@avilmask said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1059848#Comment_1059848
Because running survivor makes sounds, injured iron will doesnt. Not like it matters with broken sounds as they're now.
Actually, yes they do. Iron Will Survivors will make the exact same sounds that healthy Survivors do, including the regular breathing.
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@Wesker said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1059258#Comment_1059258
All these bullshits can be summarized in 2 rows:
Iron Will;
Git gud.And this can be summarized in one method of counterplay:
Headphones.
Seriously, if Iron Will countered Spirit as hard as people say it does, how does she hit healthy Survivors to begin with, hmm?
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At this point I have no idea what role I main, so I'll answer both.
On the Survivor side: The thing that needs to be most nerfed is how fast the games go. Note that I'm not saying that gen times need to be nerfed, because that would make Survivor even more of a boring M1 simulator than it already is. Rather, a second objective needs to be added—not a secondary objective; a second objective. Totems are a pathetic excuse of a second objective; not only do they take no time at all to cleanse once found, but the killer literally needs to waste Perk slots on Hex Perks just to make cleansing totems worthwhile in terms of survival. Until a second objective gets added to both spice up Survivor gameplay and account for the fact that unlike Survivors, Killers are simply physically incapable of being in four places at once, Survivor is always going to remain a boring, overpowered piss take.
On the Killer side: Dedicated servers need to be fixed, pronto. I would rather risk going against a lag switcher every 1 in 250 billion matches than deal with being hit around corners, through windows, across an entire pallet, and through Dead Hards that gave me Exhaustion but still didn't work every single match, multiple times per game. The number of times I've been hit after finishing a vault and walking away from it probably measures greater than the number of times I've been hit mid-vault at this point.
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Well, technically speaking, it's always substantially faster for everyone to sit on three or four gens instead of everyone to sit on one gen, so don't include Perks like Prove Thyself or Better Together; you're better off doing gens on your own and letting others do different gens at the same time. As for what you SHOULD run: The Mechanic's and Engineer's toolboxes go very quickly even with increased duration addons, so I would recommend bringing a Commodious Toolbox. With a Wire Spool and Repair Instructions, 210 charges with an efficiency bonus of 20% allows you to repair over three generators before the toolbox runs out, but even without those, you can still repair a little more than two gens with one box, so whether you bring repair speed or duration addons is up to you.
As for Perks—with the obvious exception of Prove Thyself, the only two Perks that increase your repair speed are Resilience and Spine Chill, so bring those. If you're gen rushing, you don't want to be wasting time healing since a) Resilience, and b) the gens will get done quickly, so bring Adrenaline. Last but not least, I would recommend Streetwise as its efficiency bonus applies not only to you, but also to nearby Survivors if you do in fact have to repair together.
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At first I was thinking that you were trying to say using Babysitter should be punished and I was about to go full gaming mode.
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I would say it's map-specific. On loop-heavy maps with lots of safe pallets and strong windows, I would say Spirit is the best for her anti-loop capabilities. On maps where size is the issue, Billy reigns supreme. On maps that are Killer-sided, everyone works. On maps that are the closest to being balanced... honestly? Right now I'd say the best Killer in that scenario is, believe it or not, Oni. His mix of map pressure and anti-loop is just about spot-on.
As for weakest, Legion, 100%. Bubba can at least theoretically punish people for healing chase-wise and Clown's thicc booty can force pallets to go away quickly. Legion's power is countered by holding W and literally does nothing except injure Survivors and give him fatigue.
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@Deadeye said:
Just a question. Isn't mindgaming always a guess? Like moonwalking as killer, predicting a moonwalking killer etc...
The difference between mindgaming a normal Killer and "mindgaming" a Spirit is that other Killers take more time and have more visible indications. You have to use your knowledge of how Killers gain the upper hand and what the indications may or may not be telling you to estimate what the Killer is doing and what they're going to do. It's less of a guess and more of a prediction. Meanwhile, Spirit gives no reliable indication that she is phasing or not, leaving you unable to tell whether or not she's actually using her power or just standing still, and even when she is phasing, she's completely invisible to Survivors. The only reliable thing to tell you what Spirit is doing is Spine Chill, and even then, Spirit can counter it with looking away and funky pathing to make the Perk's signals unreliable and unindicative of her current position. Countering Spirit is definitely a lot more guesswork, but people with absolute galaxy brains can learn how to predict.
Only problem is, if she has headphones, it doesn't matter how good you are since she can just insta-dash over to where she hears you—which is why the one good thing to come out of all these audio bugs is hindering Spirit's ability to go, "Nice try #########, but I have ears. ggez"
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1059178#Comment_1059178
Leatherface: BBQ
Pig: MYC
Clown: POP
Spirit: Spirit Fury
Legion: Discordance
Plague: Infectious Fright/ Corrupt
Ghostface: Not So much but Im All Ears is certainly being used a lot lately
Demo: Nothing
Oni: Nemesis
All of these killers have had perks that are being used VERY frequently across the board.
Doctor was before Huntress/David King, totally irrelevant point, just because YOU don't like PGTW doesn't mean it isn't being used in almost every match since ruins change, and you're really going to pretend like Discordance isn't being used a lot? & I'll give it that demo has nothing, but if you're going to pretend the perks I listed don't have a high usage then you don't play the game very much.
I have almost 2000 hours on this game. Most of my time as Survivor is spent in the purple ranks. Aside from Corrupt, Pop, and BBQ, I never, EVER see any of these Perks used at even the slightest level of frequency. Discordance was popular for a couple of months after Legion’s release before people realized that not only was crowding around one gen an easily avoidable mistake, it’s also significantly less efficient than spreading out to several gens. Try again.
Also, I don’t see how Doctor coming out before Huntress bears any significance to anything. His Perks are still Garbo, and thusly Killers didn’t get a meta Perk with his DLC.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1059111#Comment_1059111
I very specifically stated the killer spawning from the opposite side of a large map where the 4 survivors spawn on the opposite side. There's no "chasing" to stop the gen pressure. There's not "git gud" from that. Killers can't magically make themselves reach from one side of the map to the other if their power doesn't allow them to do so.Curious, do you have a video of a very good killer, starting a game with two gens completed? I'm just curious, you keep saying these gens are "free" but I've personally never spawned into a match with gens completed, especially if I push survivors off gens.
How funny you say killers should just learn to "git gud" and apply pressure while at the same time saying they should just accept that sometimes they start off with having a 2 less gens disadvantage because "it doesn't make a difference", meanwhile, when Survivors get the closest equivalent disadvantage via an ebony mori, suddenly you get very defensive and now, starting off with 33% less "life" suddenly makes a difference.Very defensive, 33%? If anything it's 66% less life, you're misrepresenting numbers to bolster your discussion, it's two less hooks, so it's 66% life avoided using a mori, it's not defensive, it's facts. Again, killers don't need to "git gud". 2 gens popping doesn't matter, 3 doesn't, 4 doesn't, THEY ALL NEED TO BE DONE for survivors to reasonably escape, not including things like keys because they're far too strong. 4 survivors cannot escape if only 2 gens are done, they can't escape if 3 gens are done, they can't escape if 4 gens are done. The gens really don't matter as much as you make out
Yes, you are right, killers can indeed kill without an ebony mori. Guess what -- Survivors can also survive without starting off with 2 gens being done for free with the killer being literally unable to pressure them because of the map design. Funny how that works, eh?Again, gens being done doesn't = win. They also aren't "free", I go back to the first point, can you show me a good killer who applies incredible pressure just to have two gens pop that they couldn't have avoided? Because I bet 9 times out of 10 the skilled killer still end's up killing 2/3/4 survivors because they're actually decent players and realise the game isn't over until the end screen is up,
The game hasn't been made faster, survivors haven't had a new meta perk since david king (while killers have had a new meta perk every DLC), BNPs were nuked, killers hooking/vaulting has been sped up, there has been 0 changes to the game that would increase gen speed yet all of a sudden the game is "too fast" when it's only been made easier for killers.
I wasn’t gonna participate in this enlightened discussion until “Killers get a new meta Perk every DLC”.
Im sorry, what? Out of the DLC in the past year alone:
- Spirit’s Perks, as useful as they are, are nowhere near good enough to be meta-shifting.
- Legion doesn’t even have Perks they’re so bad.
- Infectious is only “meta” on Killers like Oni, Billy, or Perma3 Myers. Corrupt is only now becoming meta because now that Ruin doesn’t exist anymore, it’s the best early-game Perk in a Killer’s arsenal.
- Tremors is good, but it’s far from meta. The other two Perks don’t even do anything.
- Demogorgon’s Perks are so pathetic it hurts.
- Oni himself is astoundingly good, but his Perks are okay at best.
Aside from that, PGTW is overrated trash, Huntress’s Perks are just as bad as Legion’s and Demo’s, and Doctor’s Perks never get used unless you’re doing a Monitor-Infectious combo. To say Killers get a new meta Perk every DLC is egregiously false to the point of ridiculousness.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1053422#Comment_1053422
Most people probably just don't know what it does I bet.
More people would if we all learned to use it to its full potential and elicit an acknowledgement of its existence.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1053086#Comment_1053086
Babysitter is terrible in solo because the unhooked usually runs toward you or the killer.
Considering that the game tells them they have Babysitter on, that shouldn’t be happening, and deducing that the Survivor is running towards the Killer should be very easy. If it does happen to you, I’m sorry that you’re playing with people who underwent severe cranial trauma at some point in their life.
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Considering most people think slugging is the most effective strategy against high rank Survivors, I would say that yeah, Unbreakable is pretty good. There’s a reason I have a 50% chance of seeing two or three Survivors with it in one game whenever I play Killer.
One time I actually did get Unbreakable’d on three times in one match. Just yesterday I got Unbreakable’d twice.
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Babysitter. Seeing the Killer’s aura is remarkably useful information to help you judge if the unhooked person is safe to heal or not, and if you’re good at looping, you’ll want the Killer to come for your ass since doing so will make them waste time catching you while your team hammers gens.
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Object of Obsession. If it weren’t for that broken, overpowered Perk being so problematic, the devs probably would never have invented Undetectable and applied a harsh blanket nerf to all the underused aura reading Perks like Alert, Babysitter, and Dark Sense.
And, of course, even with Undetectable, OoO still lights up when you look at the Killer, so... congrats, even with this blanket nerf Object can still be used against stealth Killers, so Undetectable’s reason for existence is close to pointless anyway.
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A streamer I watch calls Demogorgon “Gordon”. The rest is history.
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@starkiller1286 said:
And calm spirit counters spies from the shadows
Iron maiden counters the locker healing perk
Bt soft counters endgame unhooked downs
Object of obsession used to counter stealth killers entire existance
Distortion counters bbq and all aura reading perks/addons
A lot of things counter each other babysitter isnt really a special case since besodes T1 myers stealth killers arent always ising their stealth ability. Pigs are far less efficient if they crouch everywhere, demogorgon is only undetectable when using a portal (i assume i dont own them). Wraiths have to be cloaked for their speed boost but cant hurt you without the uncloak headstart.
I know you find babysitter suboptimal against stealth killers but that would just make it diet old object of obsession which good loopers wanted the killer to know where they are so they could waste their time.
"And calm spirit counters spies from the shadows"
You know what it doesn't counter? Leaving sprint marks, which you are likely doing if you aren't crouch-walking past birds to avoid setting them off without the aid of a Perk.
"Iron maiden counters the locker healing perk"
Only if the Killer is already right there and can actually hit you in that measly 15-second Exposed timer. If you're any kind of distance from them or you have Head On, it does no such thing.
"Bt soft counters endgame unhooked downs"
BT is also a broken, abusable mess that should be nerfed.
"Object of obsession used to counter stealth killers entire existance"
Exactly, and it got nerfed to not do that—only it still lights up against stealth Killers without showing their aura, so if you know what you're doing, the nerf is much more minor than it seems.
"Distortion counters bbq and all aura reading perks/addons"
3 individual times, after which it becomes an entirely empty Perk slot.
"A lot of things counter each other babysitter isnt really a special case since besodes T1 myers stealth killers arent always ising their stealth ability. Pigs are far less efficient if they crouch everywhere, demogorgon is only undetectable when using a portal (i assume i dont own them). Wraiths have to be cloaked for their speed boost but cant hurt you without the uncloak headstart."
- Babysitter is a special case in that it not only does absolutely nothing if the Killer simply turns on sneak mode; it actively does the complete opposite of what it was designed to do. A balanced, skillful Perk is flipped on its head because a stealth Killer's kit just exists.
- The case is true for Pig, but if she is crouching, congratulations, you were effectively punished for unhooking someone while the Pig was busy making a mistake.
- Demogorgon isn't a stealth Killer.
- Wraiths spend 95% of their time outside of chases in their cloak exactly because they are Undetectable and move faster. There's a good reason for that.
- Ghostface would like a word with you.
"I know you find babysitter suboptimal against stealth killers but that would just make it diet old object of obsession which good loopers wanted the killer to know where they are so they could waste their time."
- It would hardly be diet OoO since its aura-reading activates so utterly sparsely. Instead of getting perma-tabs on the Killer, you get to know where they are and what they're doing for that 4-second instance so you know which move to next make.
- That is the literal actual point of the Perk. It was designed specifically for its user to throw themselves at the Killer and distract them so that the person being unhooked has a widened window of opportunity to escape. That is exactly why I say the Perk is reflective of your skill: If you can't loop, you're giving the Killer a free down and hook. If you can, your friend will be saved by your intervention, and the Killer will have a challenge on their hands. But you aren't good at looping because you have Babysitter; rather, you're using Babysitter because you’re good at looping. The Perk rewards being good at getting chased. That is its intended design.
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@BloodMoneyMerc said:
Babysitter is trash. It's too situational at the moment with unhooks happening either in the killers line of sight or way too far from the killer to get any use. And even if you get it to work the killer can understand how to counteract you using it. If they want you now they know exactly where you moved to. If they want the unhooked person they just have to go the opposite direction you went to most likely find them (there is some slight mindgame possibility with this as survivor).
Perk Rating: Top of the F tier
I use Babysitter regularly and I will re-state what I said in the original post: Much like Oni, old Freddy, and Ghostface, Babysitter has the potential to be great, but only if you know how to use it, which the vast majority of people don't.
"It's too situational at the moment with unhooks happening either in the killers line of sight or way too far from the killer to get any use."
- The line-of-sight thing is complete malarkey. If you unhooked in a position where the Killer has complete vision on you, that's not the hooks being badly-placed, that's your unhook being badly-timed.
- If the Killer is far away, that's your cue to heal the Survivor you unhooked or otherwise team up with them because you know for a fact it is safe to do so. Even if you aren't given the opportunity to bodyslam the Killer for your friend's sake, the information you get out of reading the Killer's aura is incredibly valuable.
"If they want you now they know exactly where you moved to."
That is literally the point of the Perk.
" If they want the unhooked person they just have to go the opposite direction you went to most likely find them"
If they can pull this off, then you didn't throw yourself at the Killer hard enough. If you see the Killer trying to go for the unhooked person by judging their position relative to your aura, you tackle them head-on and either goad them into chasing you or bodyblock them, slowing them down until they hit you, which further slows them down, buying the Survivor the chance to fully utilize their missing scratch marks/blood pools and then some.
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I bust a nut when I bring No Mither against an Oni because a good Oni in Blood Fury is one of the few things in this game that are actually scary.
Please, keep No Mither trash against Oni. It makes him so much more intimidating to go against and I love it.
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Here are my biggest reasons as to why:
- Most Survivors, excepting people like Quentin or Yui, have at least one really good adept Perk (Unbreakable, Decisive, Adrenaline, etc.) meanwhile, most Killers' teachable Perks are just ass.
- Survivors have the same abilities across the board, meanwhile Killers have different powers and base stats. Playing a low-tier Killer will make getting their adept achievement significantly harder.
- Survivors only need to escape for their Adept achievement, regardless of how good they did emblems-wise. Meanwhile, regardless of how completely they dominated, Killers have to double pip to get their Adept achievement—and for someone like Plague, who is notorious for being easily able to depip with a 4k, that's quite a threshold to surpass.
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I just want to imagine getting marked, looking around, and seeing a sad puppy mask kilroying me from behind a vault.
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@Colton147 said:
Imagine taking a few centuries to heal yourself.
This comment was made by the Inner Strength gang.
Imagine taking time out of your day to heal yourself, this post was made by no mither gang
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1046327#Comment_1046327
While I don't agree with your DCing I laughed out loud at you calling them goblins.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1046337#Comment_1046337
Uhh I see high ranks using Self Care all the time.
I mean if I’m playing with teammates like that, we’re all going to get slaughtered anyway, so I might as well just move on to the next game.
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@GhostofYharnam said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1046616#Comment_1046616
I love the name dude
This portal is ######### RAW
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Disregarding people like Ash and Laurie who have the power of being a movie protagonist magically enhancing their survival skills—I would say Jake, since this is his element. He’s never gone against psycho killers, sure, but being an off-the-grid survivalist, the dangers of the wilderness would be a good preparation tool. He’s had about as much practice as he can receive for a situation like this, and he’s entirely accustomed to it.
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My favorite is when I run We’ll Make It, unhook someone, and follow them across the entire map only for them to start Selfish Caring in the corner.
I will actually DC if someone pulls that on me because as lowly of a life form I may be, I’m still too dignified to share dedicated servers with those absolute goblins.
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Freddy—or as I like to call him, Onision with a fedora.
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@Umbrae_pk said:
Ok, so, they removed moonwalking, but why?
Moonwalking never had some sort of advantage over the killer. Or, it never makes the survivor stronger. It was just a silly you could do to mess around.
But know you can’t anymore. And I still can’t say why. Nobody asked for it to be removed because it was ACTUALLY nothing.
I don’t think they wanted it gone, per se, but rather the movement changes they shipped to fiddle with hitreg and all that jazz just prevents moonwalking from working.
And to be fair, I have seen people pull off tactical moonwalking before. It’s extremely niche and twice as rare, but it can happen.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1042876#Comment_1042876
Not necessarily that it's harder to fix, but it's riskier. Hooks are a crucial part of the game, and rushing out a fix without having the proper time to test it could backfire in other ways.
But getting back to the OP, both are issues that we are working on at the moment. We'll get them fixed as soon as possible.
You say that every time, and then we sit waiting forever with no further updates or acknowledgement of the issue anyway.
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You heard me, big boy.
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If the unhooker gets downed right after the rescuer does, then the rescuer made a fucky wucky. Pure and simple.
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MMR: Meagerly Managed Ranking
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Purchasing Clown for Bamboozle.