DBDVulture
DBDVulture
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@Akumakaji said:
Hello everyone.
So what if the global Thunderclap you were as the killer when a totem gets booned was directional and gave you a rough idea which part of the map the sound came from?
It wouldn't fiddle with the boons numbers, but make the whole thing a bit more interactive, engaging and tactical.
Often survivors boon the first totem they come across, no matter if they need it or if it's in a good spot, there is literally no downside to it besides a few lost seconds.
And for the killer it can sometimes be very frustrating when they have bo idea wereca boon might have sprung up, losing all pressure you might be generating.
How about no?
Boons can be relit as long as there are bones. Hexes should work the same way.
They need to both play by the same rules.
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@Chaellooo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3138558#Comment_3138558
Wesker is weak? How come? He is A tier and will be even better when his bugs get fixed.
I personally will get the whole chapter. I play both sides, but I'm probably gonna become a killer main because of Wesker. His power is so fun to use!
Wesker would be A tier if he could break pallets by vaulting them with his power by default.
He is not A tier. His secondary objective has so many sprays littered all over the place that it won't be triggering often.
What your saying is what everyone said about dredge. See how long that craze lasted? Wesker has arguably weaker anti loop than Dredge and no ability to teleport.
But you think he's an A tier killer - good luck with that.
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@ArchAbhor said:
So one of the arguments made for hexes is that its a risk reward system that justifies their "game changing effects" or something along those lines. However most of the hexes power doesnt justify this line of thinking. One that comes to mind and has been this way for awhile is huntress lullaby. A new comer being Ruin.
Another issue I have with hexes in general is that my perk or build now is entirely reliant on not being either instantly cleansed by bad survivor spawns/bad hiding spots or the team hunting them. Which now there are many perks and items to hunt them or give the survivors a reason to hunt them. This is even more true the higher your mmr is. Where most survivors you face know the spawns.
I have had games where 3 of my 4 hexes on a hex build are cleansed before the first hook or gen pop. A year ago I completely stopped using hexes because it winds up being a 2 to no perk build 1/4 into the match. With Undying or thrill of the hunt it feels like you are sacrificing another perk slot just to get your 3 or 2 perk build to work.
I played with hexes in my unless I'm forced to for a year. It doesn't feel good. Hexes do not feel good right now and haven't for awhile. I'd like to use hexes but it not worth it.
My purposed fix is that Hexes that are going to remain in this sad state get residual effects upon being cleansed. Idk what the effects would be but they shouldn't be anything crazy unless that's the gimmick of the hex. This will make hexes feel better since killers are at the mercy of the team they are facing.
So with ruin one idea to give as an example is that after it is cleansed the killers kick adds 2% more regression. That way the survivors will have to choose to either deal with ruin or the killers kick being stronger. The numbers obviously need to be looked at to balance properly but that's just an example of what I mean.
Some like devour hope or noed maybe don't need this since they are such powerful hexes. Others maybe need to not be hexes like Thrill of the hunt. Imo it doesn't make any sense to have a hex that supposed to protect your hexes have a possibility to not be able to do its job. What I'm talking about is when thrill gets cleansed first.
Also another fun Idea would be to make a sequel chapter featuring the hag and Mikaela so that swamp can FINALY be fixed along with the hexes. I think boons are in a pretty ok spot. With the chapter they could add more boons and hexes to the base game pool of perks.
Depending on if this post gets any traction I'll make a list of purposed added effects or changes to the bottom of the post. I'd like to hear the forums suggestions too. Could be fun to think about and discuss.
There is one totem that is high risk high reward : Devour Hope. Ironically this is the totem that should have been given the "aura vision" nerf they gave NOED.
Almost all the other hexes would be balanced if the killer could relight them as easily as they turn on "pentimento". Boons likewise would be more risky if the killer could just turn your boon into a hex instantly. You could not destroy a perk like Blood Favour unless you broke all the totems. But in so doing then your friend loses the ability to give the team heals.
That type of conundrum is exactly what DBD needs to make totems balanced and fun for both sides. Almost nobody runs totems because they are such a heavily RNG weighted system that is nearly guaranteed to not "pay out". Boons are exactly the opposite.
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@dinomazing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3138199#Comment_3138199
Removing the RNG would be terrible though. That keeps the game interesting.
Things would get SO stale if they removed it and every time you got a map you knew the exact layout you were working with.
No one is asking to remove the RNG. Having buildings be turned this way or that way does make things interesting as having a building be in the center vs the corner changes everything. Having the building's best loop face into one direction makes it good and the opposite way can make it completely worthless. A good example here is when the killer shack window faces out from the map it makes it weaker; having the vault face into the map makes it good for the survivor.
What people are asking for is a minimum saturation so you can't have shack window vault go directly to a jungle gym via a window that leads to shack.
Scott Jund made a "dream patch" video some time ago where he asked for survivor resources to not be allowed to be saturated. In short he asked for them to be more spread out and less able to be linked. It's very dumb for a survivor to be able to pull down 3-4 pallets without taking a hit. But due to the oversaturation of resources this happens all the time.
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@SuzuKR said:
Her basekit is perfectly fine. Range addons can be reworked after big maps are reduced in size, and Torn Bookmark should also get another rework.
When you play nurse well you will stomp all level survivors. She is so far above all the other killers that she literally breaks the game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEzpkirSaNcwhen do we nerf her?
1) We need to nerf SWF first because she is the only killer strong enough to handle all maps/swf teams. How do we nerf SWF? Limit SWF to no repeats of : characters/perks/items.
2) We need to nerf map sizes. Why play M1 killers when she exists?
3) we need to maps to be less safe. Either the quality of pallets need to decrease or the number needs to decrease or both. Once again - why play an M1 killer when she exists?
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@Tostapane said:
title. especially the main building that most of the times they are infinites... unless you are using the nurse (strange, isn't it? /s) you can't catch them in reasonable time...
When survivors are bad or "average" the map design works perfectly. Every map has several god pallets that you have to be clueless to not be able to use.
The problem comes when you are skilled at the game and you can make chases take way too long. The problem compounds further when you play in a SWF and make gens more efficient still.
Even Otz has some games where he gets 1-2 hooks before all the gens are completed. You won't see those on YT because generally speaking those games don't make him look good.
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@Seraphor said:
That's not actually a bad idea. Providing all hooks start scourged as you said. It gives killers more freedom at the start of the game to get set up value out of scourge perks, then becomes resource management towards the end, potentially limiting the use of scourge perks the more ground the killer gains.
I wouldn't even say it's specifically a buff or a nerf as it's entirely contextual.
Making all the hooks into scourge hooks would definitely be a buff. It's really dumb that you get +4 scourge perks for the first perk and do not get +4 for the second perk unless you bring Monstrous Shrine.
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@toxik_survivor said:
Make the killer OP at the start but have backup code to apply a month later when they nerf the killer. Everyone will buy the killer cause he's insanly good and then just nerf a month later. The same can be done with perks. Make a perk really good (reassurance) and everyone will buy that survivor for it and then they gonna nerf the perk. Boom, pro marketing tactics 🤯. Now that I think about it, that's ecmxactly what they gonna do with reassurance.
One of the purposes of DLC in DBD is to fix problems with perks as bandaids.
Clown gave killers Bamboozle even though he doesn't really need that perk at all due to his vault mechanic. Instead of fixing the possibility of unfair tiles we get that perk instead.
Instead of addressing the problem of gen speeds vs chases at high level play (which is the root cause of camping) they gave survivors an abusive anti camping perk.
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@Dsnooz said:
It went from being a perk that made you better in chase and countered stealth killers to being a perk that counters stealth killers.
If stealth killers aren't an issue for you, the perk is worthless.
Spine Chill was one of the best perks you could have in a chase before it got nerfed as it helped counter Spirit/Nurse AND also rocked all stealth killers. The faster vault was icing on the cake.
Now it counters stealth killers that have direct line of sight to you. It used to counter killers looking at you which was way stronger.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
Will you buy the whole chapter or just some character(s) or just skip? And why if you can tell too ;-)
Wesker is weak and I don't buy weak killers.
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@Tiufal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/338974/trick-to-dodge-survivor-as-killer-on-lobby
Makes no sense as prestige isnt related to skill, just to playtime.
If you wanted an easy game and you were given a choice between a lobby with everyone around level 45 prestige or everyone level 5 prestige which would you prefer?
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@HugTheHag said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3134563#Comment_3134563
I would take them to have the information easily accessible without having to lose time trying to communicate in a foreign language with my teammates. I would take them because I don't know the maps and placement of the tiles perfectly, so there's still a lot of "Where are you ?" "Uh... near main building" "Okay which side?" "I don't know, what's the front and what's the back?" and it takes time to really get where someone is.
I play on comms (duos and trios) and still use Windows so that I don't have to calculate which pallet was dropped 5 minutes before that I definitely forgot about.
I still run Kindred to know where people are and estimate if I'm the best person to go for the unhook or if my friend really is closer.
I still run Alert to know exactly how far the chase is from my position, so I can adapt and not disturb my friend's concentration.
Before the rework, I still used Dark Sense to know where the killer was, rather than ask and get a "I don't know how to describe where he is but it's somewhere near a tree". Post patch, I still use Dark Sense to counter early mindgames or to hide from the killer safely.
I still use Small Game because I don't know most of the totem spots, and neither do my friends. Again, if we really tried to communicate to positions, it would go something like this : "Oh I saw a totem" "Where?" "In a jungle gym" "... okay?"
I still use Deja Vu because I can't find gens on darker maps like Autohaven or on convoluted maps like RPD.
I don't run Object of Obsession, but I see it mostly used to get attention from the killer and draw aggro, not to know where killer is.
I still use Plunderer's Instinct when I have a chest tome challenge. It's easier to walk around looking for pink auras than to wait for a friend to maybe happen upon a chest and depend on them to actually describe where it is.
A lot of the other perks described in the original post are DLC perks that I don't have, so I can't say I run them or know all of their effects. But I can guarantee you that most SWFs, those who play casually and not on a competitive level, still use a lot of these aura perks.
Because it's still easier than depending on someone's ability to relay any and all information at all times, especially when they could be under pressure and should be focused on their situation rather than lose concentration to try to describe what's happening to others. Especially if english is not their mother tongue and they have to translate mid chase.
Voice coms give an advantage. That advantage translates to a 15% escape rate over solo queue players.
Something must change so that the advantage goes to a very small percentage - then nobody will care.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3134682#Comment_3134682
Swfs are not already on sweat mode. A lot of us are just having some fun with friends. That's not sweaty. But a killer bringing 4 slowdowns, plus a red mori, and tunneling is supposedly evening the playing field?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/JNU99Y1M2W4G/images-2817-29.jpeg
-"Swfs are not already on sweat mode. A lot of us are just having some fun with friends."
Since playing with your friends is what really matters just accept the : no character/perk/item repeat if playing in a SWF.
That way SWF can't be a bully squad and you cannot stack multiple copies of a perk. With the new UI that I suggest that shows which perks everyone is using it won't even take you long to plan out builds in real time.
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@Zolfo16 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3134598#Comment_3134598
I do not agree. Bad nurses do not rely on distance addons. Those aren't the addosn that help bad nurses. The bad addons help bad nurses.
Like the flanel and the addon that make the nurse fast after a hit but removes the ability to blink, allowing her to down with 1 blink and 1 chase instead of 2 blinks.
-"Bad nurses do not rely on distance addons"
They most certainly do. There are a lot of people playing nurse that would be hopeless when you take away best in slot addons. I used to love playing against nurse when I had spirnt, IW and spinechill all working together. When Omega blink changed it lowered the skill floor because blinking was a joke with Omega Blink.
Now that you can't use SC anymore to help in chases and you must choose exhaustion or IW - Nurse is a lot stronger.
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These changes will make the "bad" nurses play something else. But the good nurses will still stomp people's face in.
https://youtu.be/ZEzpkirSaNc?t=255Here is a video of Hens stomping very good survivors with near perfect play on nurse with no addons or perks.
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Scott actually has a pretty nice video here and a very simple solution.
Hyperfocus should not work with toolboxes.
Imagine if there were a perk that gave synergy with Monstrous Shrine that let you get 15 second hook stages.
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@HugTheHag said:
While I appreciate the effort you made to be thorough on your arguments, I cannot agree with you.
I do not think there is a problem with 90% of SWFs. I do not think they are, as a whole, overpowered, or that the game is deeply balanced around not having information.
You would be surprised how many SWFs : Don't communicate (playing together not on comms) / Are beginners / Have a bad sense of orientation and can't communicate where stuff is / Don't keep an eye on which gens are regressing / Don't check in every single second to know where everyone is at all time / Still struggle to find gens on dark or convoluted maps / Don't have a lot of game knowledge
I only play in SWF (generally duo, occasionally trio). We're still not that good at the game. We don't communicate our position at all time, because we still need to hear the game and be alert, and we generally don't talk that much when one of us is in chase to not break their concentration. We still get surprised leading the killer to someone accidentally, because we moved and the others didn't know. We still struggle to find chests, totems, even gens on some maps. We still struggle escaping.
That 16.5 free perks is a statistical illusion. No casual SWF has the brainpower to quickly update everyone on all of these infos at all time, and still play the game well.
Do SWF do better because of some info exchange ? Yes. Is Solo queue underpowered ? Also yes. Are some of the strategies encouraged by the game (protection hits, sabo plays, tricky hook saves) almost only do-able as SWF ? A third yes.
All of these things you listed apply to 4-man SWF comp teams. Not casual players trying to enjoy the game with their friends. Most SWFs are not 4-men SWF (that's 6% of survivors), and most SWFs are not gods at the game with superior awareness or game knowledge.
There is no problem with 90% of SWFs, and top tier killers won't have too much trouble even facing 4-man SWFs.
-"I do not think there is a problem with 90% of SWFs. I do not think they are, as a whole, overpowered, or that the game is deeply balanced around not having information."
DBD is most definitely balanced around not having voice coms. Why would you take one of about 20 perks that gives you information when you can get a "virtual" copy of that perk at no cost when you have voice coms?
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While it is possible they have frame perfect timing and near omniscience it could be from one of the cheats.
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@Omans said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3132113#Comment_3132113
"first major killer buff in literally 6 years"
What are you even talking about?
Yo, guys and gals. Defending your bias is cool and all, and even though it would be nice if you considered the other side's point of view, but at least say things that are truthful and make sense.
To everyone else - this is the kind of killer main you can just ignore. They say untruthful things because they want their side to be more powerful rather than advocating for a balanced game for both sides.
Most buffs to killer come with subsequent rollbacks (nerf wraith last year/Than with this patch) or hidden strings (like huntress/clown reworks that removed some of their best addons).
This is literally the first time in six years where we had a bunch of changes to the game that were good for killer and bad for survivor at the same time. And even with this patch we lost some of the best gen defense perks. Pop is beyond dead as nobody is using it. You can end up kicking a generator for two seconds to remove 4-8 seconds of generator repair. That's completely busted.
The patch about one month after release was the first and one of the only big flat nerfs we ever had to survivor. Go to the official DBD wiki and read the patch log for yourself. There was never another patch like this again where there were only nerfs for survivor and buffs to the killer.
Have there been buffs to killer over the last 6 years? Yes but as I stated before it usually came with downsides.
Killer has been kept in a barely playable state for a very long time. If you want to doubt that statement start a following where you play all M1 killers without addons. Dazzle us with your skill that gets "turned off" by the majority of pallets in this game.
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@Taxman232 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3132076#Comment_3132076
Dont be facetious, you cant chase 4 survivors at once. my point was to share the chase interaction around and pressure survivors off gens and to do something stupid.
Also what you are describing (hooking a survivor between 3 gens) is proxy camping. Reducing map size makes that easier, which makes for sweatier gameplay. After the last survivor nerf and massive killer buff I think that the DBD does not need a map rework. They need to sort out the existing balance issues post 'meta rework' first.
There are two killers capable of playing on large mas : Nurse/Blight. It is ridiculous to "need to play those killers to have a chance of a fair game on all maps.
@cburton311 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3130607#Comment_3130607
The difference in your example is pretty straightforward though, the killer was never removed from the game regardless of the approach the survivors take. Tunnelling someone right off the hook, does remove that survivor from the game without any real conterplay for that survivor. They are at the killers mercy, and it is insanely unfun to be dangling from a hook or just outright removed.
You are not wrong. But at the same time it is very easy to play in a SWF and trade one hook for one generator. What is the killer supposed do against that kind of pressure? The answer is : camp/tunnel.
DBD has maps that are far too safe/easy for the survivors to win.
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@Gylfie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3130571#Comment_3130571
Kinda like how killers were going to stop stacking slowdown perks if gens ever got nerfed? Oh wait.
Look at what happened with the perk changes.
Instant regression got nerfed to oblivion. Now there is only regression over time perks. The new time based regression perks only work vs solo queue not SWF.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3132084#Comment_3132084
That would be fine if this was not a free to play game just trying to make money somehow. Oh, wait a minute...
Giving everyone access to the perks is a reasonable request. Nobody is asking to be able to buy the new killers/survivors with shards.
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@Derix said:
I joined this game in early 2020. I fell in love with it, such a fun game as a solo person and I was able to escape half or less than half the time. It was super fun. The fun is gone now. The only fun I can actually play as is when I choose the killer role, but that should not be my only option. If you want to actually grow your player base, casual solo players need to stand a chance... After 6.1 you basically killed solo players chances to escape and it makes me not even want to contribute money to your game to make it to succeed. I used to watch so many solo queue survivors on Twitch, and they are so few and far between now, you are almost killing your game. I like playing killer but without survivors who actually want to have fun to play, your game is dead. Do something.
"It was super fun. The fun is gone now. The only fun I can actually play as is when I choose the killer role"
I am guessing you enjoyed looping easy killers in chases where you did not feel pressured. It sounds like you want to play the "easy" role.
@Derix said:
Oh I forgot this forum is flooded with killer mains scouring for the next survivor nerf. As a person who plays killer most of the time, I actually enjoy an equal winning on both sides. if I struggle as killer then cool, I need to get better. I take 2 or more as a win, not 4k minimum. I want to play a different game mode as survivor by myself and actually stand a chance. Is that so hard to ask?
Forum flooded with killer mains - oh that's rich. Did you not notice this is the first major killer buff in literally 6 years since they nerfed Sprint, Self Care and changed a bunch of stuff in 2016? Most of the killer changes have been two steps back and one step forward.
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He's right. This patch might feel just right when you play Blight or Nurse but it literally made no changes if you play Pig or Trapper.
There are still too many pallets.
The maps are still too big
Loops are still too safe.
SWF still exists and has a massive advantage.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3132066#Comment_3132066
It would be nice to go back to that same problem. I wish mmr was tight so competent survivors could whip mediocre killers into submission, again.
Then hop on over to VHS. Almost nobody is playing monster in that game because who wants to be "whipped into submission" when they are supposed to be playing the power role in a 1 vs 4 game.
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@H2H said:
IMO the shrine is pretty outdated considering the number of killers and survivors, no disagreement there. I’d like to see a much larger selection or an entirely different mechanism.
The shrine needs a complete rework.
1) No more "free perks" in the shrine. Only DLC perks should be in the shrine. Nobody should be unlocking sprint burst with the shrine for 2,000+4,000+6,000 shards because they did not prestige Meg yet.
2) Remove the lock out for new perks in the shrine - make it 100% random among all DLC perks. Once a perk has been in the shrine keep it out of the shrine until all the DLC has been available.
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@Taxman232 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3130571#Comment_3130571
Yeah that doesnt quite equate. The way to get survivors off gens is to spread the love and chase all 4, dont just tunnel the one and be surprised when three gens pop.
How do you chase 4 survivors with 1 killer?
Do you play Nemesis and you have 2 zombies perfectly harassing survivors while you chase 1 person and 1 person gets a free generator with no harassment?
Do you play Pinhead and have your chain up the entire game?
Oh right - neither of these is a realistic scenario. Nor is chasing 4 people a realistic scenario. Map sizes in DBD are too big. If we take a look at a map like coal tower we will see a balanced size map. If you chase one person for longer than about 30 seconds you will almost always run into a second person trying to work on a generator. This is the mechanic you talk about that only happens with small maps.
Unfortunately most of the maps in DBD are not 9000m². Most of them are huge.
So let's think about a realistic game. If I down Meg and I put her in the middle of three gens then I cannot lose the game if I guard those generators and make her capture difficult. If I tunnel her while guarding those three gens then that is a winning strategy.
The game developers need to shrink all the maps so that camping/tunneling with a 3 gen is not the only viable strategy.
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@Sluzzy said:
I feel like BHVR is putting quantity before quality in the past few years, especially considering how DLCs are very killer centric. This makes me sincerely believe there is a lack of empathy for survivors and have completely given up and focused on making money strictly on killer DLCs. Using Resident Evil again to bring and attract more players to buy the overpowered killer is an attempt to repeat the success of Nemesis, a popular killer that was overpowered. His tentacle is tedious and has no counterplay in a majority of situations. The new killer also has no counterplay leaving survivors hopeless.
When survivors finally had some content to refresh the game with Mikaela Reid, the devs were very quick to listen to unsubstantiated complaints and nerf Circle of Healing numerous times. Survivors have little hope and having a lack of good perks has made the role very unattractive and depressing to play.
The issue now is that the last patch completely broke and ruined the game, survivors have clearly made their voices heard and BHVR has been radio silent and still focused on working and releasing a licensed killer that will be overpowered. Killers couldn't play the PTB because no survivors played, proving once again there is nothing for survivors. Solos knew they were dead when they spawned on the map.
I think this is dangerous for BHVR to be so stubborn and completely ignore an overwhelming majority of their playerbase. From what I can see, most survivors are playing and not having any fun knowing they have hardly any chance to win, with most being forced to due to increasingly long killer queues.
BHVR is making a very bad judgement decision to not revert some of the killer buffs and survivor nerfs in the new update. It makes little sense to me to leave a majority of those playing the game unsatisfied with the balance of the game. It seems like a great way to kill off the game, maybe this is their intention due to their lack of attentiveness to the matter.
-"BHVR is making a very bad judgement decision to not revert some of the killer buffs and survivor nerfs in the new update."
Do you notice how the queue times over the last few months have gone from 5-10 minutes to 15-30 seconds? This probably has something to do with people actually wanting to play killer. DBD doesn't work if everyone wants to play survivor. You can literally see that in action with the new VHS game on steam. That game is way too teen centric so nobody wants to play monster. The result is that you can wait in queue for 15 minutes to play teen to play a game that lasts 5 minutes. Sounds fun right? DBD used to have exactly the same problem.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3131270#Comment_3131270
The devs literally said kill rates were too low, and that was before the mid-chapter update actually dropped. It was the whole reason they were buffing killers. Did you just not read the June 2022 developer update?
Here's your proof.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/LSRQ26OB8KJT/20220813-162838.jpg
Dead By Daylight is not balanced from the top down. It's balanced around what's average, and your average survivor is not clocking in at 8,000+ hours.
Of course killers would prefer playing against swf if you gave them four extra perks with zero limitations. Who wouldn't? Solos on the other hand, well they got the short end of the stick. They can have four extra perks but only if those four extra perks are information perks.
Like come off it mate. It'd only be a fair trade if killers were restricted to perks like Surveillance and Discordance for their four extra perks.
I played Plague with pre-nerf Thana and three slowdowns and it was against a SWF trio with one solo. It took them over 30 minutes to finish all the gens, and all I did was pressure gens. None of them played bad by any means, it was just that I had so much slowdown they couldn't get anything done.
With eight slowdowns, I could make it take twice that amount of time which obviously is not fun for anyone.
-"Of course killers would prefer playing against swf if you gave them four extra perks with zero limitations. Who wouldn't?"
Let's stop and think for a second. What part of the game right now gives you extra perks with zero limitations? The answer is SWF. You get the value of many free perks because you can talk. SWF needs to have a downside so that there is at least one advantage to playing in solo queue.
You are unwilling to limit SWF parties to no repeats of : characters/perks/items. That one simple change would make SWF a lot more balanced while having almost no impact on the strength of a SWF group.
"The devs literally said kill rates were too low"
I am not doubting that fact. You can't be sure that the buffs to killer had nothing to do with this :
Furthermore you have no information that proves that these numbers were a direct result of few people wanting to play killer. See all those months in red over the last year? For the huge majority of the last year Killer queues have been instant. Do you know why? Because almost nobody wanted to play killer. Meanwhile during a large portion of this time the survivor queue times were 5-10 minutes to play a game that could be won in under 5 minutes.
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@VicRatlhead said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3131130#Comment_3131130
No offense but the tunneling gen mumbo jumbo is totally comparing apples to oranges. Tunneling a survivor knocks them out of the game with under 5k points. A killer would have to stand in the corner doing absolutely nothing to earn such subpar rewards.
I've let everyone go and still gotten over 25k. I mean, it's just completely different.
-"No offense but the tunneling gen mumbo jumbo is totally comparing apples to oranges"
Is it? Survivors rush their objective; killers rush their objective too. It's a PVP game where you have opposing goals that interfere with the other side's win condition.
@IlliterateGenocide said:
To me it depends when you tunnel.
Let me tell you what kind of player I am. I did the bot tutorial mission and tunneled them at five gens.
Tunneling at five gens is a choice. There are very simple and creative ways I have imagined to completely fix the tunneling problem.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3130224#Comment_3130224
Survivors already hate playing against four slowdown perks, what do you think is going to happen when you let them stack more? Survivors are going to DC en masse because literally nothing can be done. Killer perks and survivor perks are not equal in terms of strength.
You propose that solos get 4 extra information perks of their choice, while the killer gets any 4 extra perks of their choosing. This is in absolutely no way a fair trade, and survivors in general wouldn't enjoy playing against that.
I'm proposing that solos get the same level of information as a swf, not the exact same information. If solos can make informed decisions, they'll (hopefully) play better. If somebody's on hook and at least one person is thinking about going for the save but they're also thinking somebody else is on the way, they'll be able to glance at the hud and know that one person is in chase, and the other is on a gen.
Survivors can't have games without killers and killers can't have games without survivors. You can't punish people for playing with their friends and you can't just give the killer an absurd buff to compensate for the existence of swf.
Smaller maps means killers can get downs at a consistent pace, which also means that all that information sharing isn't going to make a difference.
Solos get buffed by giving them the same level of information a swf has. This means things like basekit kindred and action icons. They can never be made equivalent to a swf, but the gap can be bridged.
After this, the survivor role can then be nerfed as a whole while weaker killers can be given buffs where necessary. This allows for more killers to be viable, and for killers to get downs at a consistent pace without relying on stacking slowdowns.
As for the reason why killers were buffed this last patch, it has nothing to do with killer numbers and everything to do with kill rates. The devs were unhappy with the kill rates hence the killer buffs. I don't agree with their reasoning, but I do agree with the buffs.
I'm not against killers and solos getting buffs, but I am against ideas that only really benefit the killer. If you can't beat a swf, it's on you as a player. That same swf would've beat you even without comms. Comms, believe it or not, do not make or break a victory.
Survivors already hate playing against four slowdown perks, what do you think is going to happen when you let them stack more?
Killers already hate playing against SWF - but they would probably PREFER to play vs SWF if they got +4 perks. I think it would do exactly what you want: make all solo players more balanced with SWF.
"You propose that solos get 4 extra information perks of their choice, while the killer gets any 4 extra perks of their choosing. This is in absolutely no way a fair trade"
It's not a fair trade that when you play in a SWF you can have 12 or more perks worth of information at no cost. This makes everyone stronger who is not in a SWF group. It would be totally fair and balanced because survivors get information and the killer gets power.
The most fair thing to do would be to have some kind of "tournament mode" . You queue up five players and your SWF plays against their killer while your killer plays against their killer. The regular game mode would be solo queue only. Then nobody needs any extra perks. Another way you could make it fair is if you could get reduced points (no item or achievement gain) in KYF and the game had "open mics" the whole time. That way you can play with your friends and still get points.
"You can't punish people for playing with their friends"
Taking away the 15% escape advantage from SWF over solo queue is not punishing people for playing with their friends. Just stop with that rhetoric.
"As for the reason why killers were buffed this last patch, it has nothing to do with killer numbers and everything to do with kill rates"
You are not privy to that information and are speculating. There is no proof of this "fact".
"If you can't beat a swf, it's on you as a player."
This retort makes sense when you consider low and middle skill survivors. The second we are talking about people with multiple thousands of hours of experience playing in a SWF in unfair. Almost all the "big name" streamers call playing in a SWF unfair. I think it's pretty safe to say the devs don't think SWF is fair either as they have noticed that being in a SWF gives you a 15% higher chance to escape. I will remind you again that when freddy got nerfed to oblivion he had a 4% higher kill rate. The SWF escape rate advantage is almost 4 times higher.
If you watch some of the old charity streams you can see some of the very best DBD streamers play against each other. It became painfully obvious that when you put a team of survivors with 20k hours on the same team they kind of stomp the killer.
If you want to pretend that SWF doesn't give a big advantage that's fine. But literally the entire streaming community acknowledges that it does.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3130736#Comment_3130736
What does Otzdarva recommend you do? Follow that. :)
Otz says if you feel like camping - camp.
@Konnor24 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3130679#Comment_3130679
Tunnelling is not the issue for me. Its the face camping. Have you read what ive said? The title even states it
Tunneling and face camping are basically parts of the same mechanic.
You tunnel by not letting them get far off the hook.
If you down someone next to a gen that is 80% finished you sure as heck want to camp them right next to that gen.
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@HNTR_Green said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3130857#Comment_3130857
Working on a gen uninterrupted progresses the game at a normal pace, which is still fair to each survivor and killer. A killer focusing on one survivor so that they are dead within two minutes of a match has prevented that survivor from playing for the entire rest of that match (they now have to move onto another lobby and queue), which if there are bonus BP elements in play such as BPS or Anniversary Offerings, they get no advantage of. That's why tunneling survivors is considered bad early on. It actively hurts a player by not allowing them to really play the game like the other survivors.
Also, tunneling survivors at 5 gens is just tacky.
Killers are most efficient when they eliminate survivors one by one. Survivors are most efficient when they eliminate gens in the same fashion.
Change the game so neither side "tunnels"
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3130706#Comment_3130706
Oh......So you sit there on a gen and think to yourself "gee.....It would be unfair and unfun if i pop this gen. Instead of doing 33 % of it and coming back later" ?
Literally zero survivors have ever made the conscious choice to leave gens at 33% until all gens were at 33% before getting any one generator to 66% and then repeating that process before getting any generator to 100% completion.
Survivors tunnel generators so killers tunnel survivors.
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@KnotEnthusiast said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3130495#Comment_3130495
"Bamboozle forces people to not be able to follow an "optimal loop pattern". Following an optimal loop pattern is lazy."
Did you not read any other part of my response saying that reading and reacting to the other player is what makes it fun? I agree running the "optimal path" is lazy, because
A: that's reducing the entire game down to a flowchart, rather than playing dynamically and predicting the other player's actions, like I said I prefer doing.
and B: running the optimal path IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU SAID BAMBOOZLE ALLOWS YOU TO DO. If no matter what the survivor has done earlier in the game, the way you play a tile is the exact same because of a perk you're running, then that perk facilitates laziness.
So you probably think chasing people with Nurse is lazy too right?
No, because playing nurse requires you at least learn her blink distance and predict survivor pathing, akin to learning how to run tiles correctly. The equivalent would be if there was an addon that automatically turned you in the direction of the survivor when you release the blink, because then you wouldn't have to predict or learn at all.
"The reality is that you can't outsmart people who have "questionable vision" with a mind game. I can't explain that better or the mods will delete this post for advertising non allowed behavior. There are also quite a few people who play DBD with subtle cheats. You literally can't catch them at loops without bloodlust. They absolutely hate Bamboozle because they have no idea what to do when you block their favorite window."
This explanation reads like someone who blames every single time they lose a chase on stretched rez, subtle cheats or SWF. If you're going against so many that you have to run Bamboozle to counter them constantly, you're probably not going against any.
""Mind games with the opposing side are dynamic, and to me that's the most fun part of DBD"
I'm not going ti humor this argument as it reinforce the idea : chases are fun when I am in control and not fun when I have zero control."
I don't think you know what the word dynamic means.
We agree on one thing: A survivor running every tile in the same prescribed way is boring and lazy. Comp dropping every safe pallet and moving on to the next one sucks to go against and is boring. But I think killers doing the same thing is equally as boring. Bamboozling a window is just comp dropping every pallet but for the killer: you remove all chance for interesting play and turn the game into resource management. Chases should be dynamic (that means changing constantly), with reads and predictions and reactions. That's the way I play. Sometimes it backfires and I go down faster, but that's the risk reward. But by running bamboozle, you're forcing me to simply play the only way I can with the window blocked, which is just to loop and drop the pallet at the optimal time. Ironically, you're forcing the thing you hate most by running the perk.
"We agree on one thing: A survivor running every tile in the same prescribed way is boring and lazy. Comp dropping every safe pallet and moving on to the next one sucks to go against and is boring."
I definitely agree with you here.
"Bamboozling a window is just comp dropping every pallet but for the killer: you remove all chance for interesting play and turn the game into resource management"
Most of the maps have too many safe pallets. I don't even mean the really abusive ones like "The Game". Once upon a time maps were littered with something like 50% safe pallets and 50% unsafe pallets. The problem with wanting DBD to be a "mind game" centered adventure is that most pallets can't be mind gamed anymore.
Bamboozle forces you to waste resources or take a hit. I don't care if you drop the pallet - I can instantly break it. If I am in a chase with someone and they drop 3-4 pallets I might just chase them a while so they ruin the map for others. This is rare but MMR sometimes gives you people with very low hours who are not smurfing with new accounts.
DBD is most fair to killer when it becomes a resource management issue. If you make them drop their medkits or waste them through other perks that helps. Making people waste pallets is a big help too.
"But by running bamboozle, you're forcing me to simply play the only way I can with the window blocked, which is just to loop and drop the pallet at the optimal time. Ironically, you're forcing the thing you hate most by running the perk."
This is the part I disagree with. The reason I run Bamboozle is to force chases to be faster and force pallets to be used more quickly. I want both of those things.
Most survivors have zero skill without a pallet; conversely there is almost no skill involved in looping an M1 killer around a safe loop with the pallet intact. I would agree if you call these chases boring. It's dumb game design that you need to bring bamboozle to prevent survivors from running around the same loop over and over - or you can play Nurse. A lot of people in recent months have just opted out to play Nurse as it doesn't cost a perk slot.
One of the oldest tricks in the DBD book was stealth. Sadly it has almost completely been eliminated from the game. We lost the fog to make console players happy and that sucks. Stealth without fog isn't really that viable. Nor it is easy when the killer can see your aura over and over and over again. Stealth play was the original mind game. Shelter woods was the "challenge" map back in the time of release because it had no infinite window loops (after they patched the second window to be closed or if you played trapper in the first month).
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@Tizzle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3130571#Comment_3130571
The posts on this forum get stupider and stupider by the day.
Imagine if the killer could kick completed gens and they "rolled back" to uncompleted. Now they have a non discreet objective. You could win as killer if five gens were at 95% but none were fully "on".
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@Konnor24 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3130637#Comment_3130637
Even if you see survivors leaving the lobby being replaced by one other? That happens a lot with me. I play with one other on surv lately and 30-50% of the time someone will join and leave because they think we're all solo i assume. But that doesnt stop the killers. They still face camp.
I can understand your point because its happened to me a lot as killer. Having the 4 man swf on comms being utterly sweaty, clicking flashlights constantly and being annoying. But most arent like that, in my experience as killer anyway.
It matters not. Tunneling is the survivor strategy and the killer strategy too.
If you want to win you tunnel your objective.
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@Konnor24 said:
Simple question. Every single killer ive faced this week has face camped me or others in my game.
I wish this was hyperbole. But its drove me over the edge and ive uninstalled the game. And i dont think ill be coming back.
Weird thing is, i actually play killer more than survivor, so it seems im the last person left who just enjoys the game for hunting, downing and hooking instead of standing there staring at someone on the hook.
So legit question. What is the point in it? Is getting 11k BP while using cakes/BPS and ruining other peoples that important? Before the previous update, i noticed camping was getting more ramptant. I thought the update would make killers camp less. You really dont need to, at least i dont on the killers i play most (Nemesis, Freddy, Doctor, Plague). The update had made me far stronger and even if i dont get a 4k i feel like a threat now. But for the past week out of roughly 30 games i have seen killers face camp at least 28 of those games (at 4/5 gens still to be done might i add)
I dont care about camping end game, it has to be done sometimes. But at 4/5 gens left? Or when 3 gens pop but you still have a 3/4 gen easy patrol?
Im not even the one being camped 9/10 times. But it infuriates me that so many are doing this. 5 years on this game and i have never seen it in a worse state. I like playing with my friends, but out of our group of 14 only 3 play. Well, 2 now that im gone.
My rant aside, please, tell me, why do you need to face camp with 4/5 gens to go other than to be a complete asshat to others?
"But at 4/5 gens left?"
I assume every game is against the best 4 players in the world on voice coms. I won't give an inch at the start. Why? If you do you set yourself up for failure later because you played nice.
Play hard and control the game and you can ease up later.
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@Wowie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3130571#Comment_3130571
You can't tunnel a gen.
Sure you can. I can have the unreal expectation that I expect you to complete 10% progress on every generator then you get 20% on all generators and repeat this until some go to 100% completion.
You have the same expectation that I should "anti tunnel" and hook each survivor twice before I ever hook someone once.
Both are completely ridiculous
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Gates absolutely should decay at a 1:1 ratio so there are no free easy escapes. Open the doors before the rescue or delay and open them after. No more 99% freebies.
GF is fine.
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@Crowman said:
Survivors don't like being eliminated out of the game early. That's really it.
There's nothing bad about the killing tunneling out the survivor. It can be really good for the killer if they find the weak link and knock them out early as a 3v1 is much easier to handle than a 4v1.
The only thing right now is it might be a bit too easy for killers to tunnel out a survivor and that might warrant a nerf.
Make tunneling out generators less rewarding. If survivors don't tunnel gens then killers might not tunnel survivors.
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@legacycolt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3130518#Comment_3130518
The killer q is too long to dodge lobbies imo.
All I can recommend is to ignore the post game chat as killer. Thank god I’m on ps, I can choose who to talk to.
The best time to play killer is after 5pm. Lobbies are nearly instant and this last all the way to like 11pm.
Play after this time and it's basically try hard o clock.
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@legacycolt said:
Prestige doesn’t say anything about skill
It tells you who plays way too much. Someone who is level 40 is a good person to skip out on the lobby. In a year or two it won't matter though.
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If you feel like tunneling then tunnel.
The survivors tunnel their objective with impunity so you should do the same.
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@KnotEnthusiast said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3130294#Comment_3130294
I mean, you're just entirely proving my point. I never said Bamboozle wasn't good, I just said its lazy. Like you said, with Bamboozle, the most optimal way to play is just to follow the survivor's path exactly, just holding W without trying to outsmart or outplay the survivor: you just let the perk do that for you. It's effective, but immensely boring.
"They will always say, "you have no skill" or "you play like a noob with beginner perks". What they mean is : I hate the way you play the game because it denies me the ability to run loops like I want to."
I mean, no. Its exactly like you said: with bamboozle the most efficient way to chase is to follow the survivor exactly. You've equipped a perk that removes any possible variability from a chase, and then just follow them because they now have a single choice of where to go. I believe Bamboozle is a lazy perk because it removes skill from the equation.
"The best part about Bamboozle is that there is quite often nothing you can do about it even if you know I have it."
Again, you're reinforcing my point. Mind games with the opposing side are dynamic, and to me that's the most fun part of DBD, playing killer or survivor. I see how they chase/run around certain tiles, then adjust my pathing based on what I think they'll do next. Fake a double back on a TL wall, then double fake the next time so the survivor vaults into me. Or if I know a killer likes to cut off fast vaults into a long wall, I duck behind the corner, wait for him to turn in, then leave the loop. Its these cat-and-mouse actions and reactions that make this game so interesting and fun. But Bamboozle just entirely kills that. You reduce options down to one, and turn chases into a simple timer until you run out of resources. It's like the perk equivalent of bloodlusting a safe pallet, or of old Legion: at some point, regardless of skill, you go down.
"And that's exactly what you want as killer. You want to find an angle that makes you stronger and your opponent weaker."
No, when I play killer (and survivor) I want to have fun, and show that I've accrued enough skill in the game to outsmart people and do interesting things. Hell, my favourite killer and loadout is Huntress with four long distance aura reading perks for crossmap hatchets. If I only cared about winning, I'd be running agi startstruck nurse every game, but that's boring as hell and no challenge.
All of this comes back to my original point: when I go against a top tier killer who mindgames me well and gets downs on me by anticipating and outsmarting me, I feel satisfied because I know that at that moment, he was the better player. When I go down because someone bamboozled a window, I just feel like someone used a perk to avoid having to put the time in to learn to outsmart people, they just let the perk do it.
"I never said Bamboozle wasn't good, I just said its lazy"
Bamboozle forces people to not be able to follow an "optimal loop pattern". Following an optimal loop pattern is lazy. I really don't like chess because you can memorize the counter to any potential move setup. DBD is exactly the same when you are chased by most of the M1 cast. Follow the optimal loop path until you can't anymore then throw the pallet. There is no innovation. It's route memorization. Bamboozle says no to that. You have to think of something different or I win.
"I believe Bamboozle is a lazy perk because it removes skill from the equation."
So you probably think chasing people with Nurse is lazy too right? Under normal conditions running a memorized loop pattern removes any perceived skill you think you have. It's literally monkey see - monkey do. Copy and Paste someone else's understanding of the game and run the most efficient loop on every tile. When I bring Bamboozle I erase everything you know about that tile and change it into a new tile that favors me.
"Mind games with the opposing side are dynamic, and to me that's the most fun part of DBD"
I'm not going ti humor this argument as it reinforce the idea : chases are fun when I am in control and not fun when I have zero control.
"All of this comes back to my original point: when I go against a top tier killer who mindgames me well and gets downs on me by anticipating and outsmarting me, I feel satisfied because I know that at that moment, he was the better player. When I go down because someone bamboozled a window, I just feel like someone used a perk to avoid having to put the time in to learn to outsmart people, they just let the perk do it."
It's boring to play Nurse and Blight because you move really fast, you have the advantage at almost every tile, you have crazy strong addons and it is your game to lose. For every other killer in the game it's the survivor's game to lose. They will win if they don't mess up. Because of this I don't play those killers.
The reality is that you can't outsmart people who have "questionable vision" with a mind game. I can't explain that better or the mods will delete this post for advertising non allowed behavior. There are also quite a few people who play DBD with subtle cheats. You literally can't catch them at loops without bloodlust. They absolutely hate Bamboozle because they have no idea what to do when you block their favorite window.
Also while you feel there are no mind games with Bamboozle - I can assure you there are plenty. When I play survivor I don't mind Bamboozle. I know exactly how I would play that window when I play killer and in what feels like 90% of cases I can make huge distance if I know they feel they need to block a window. I also listen for the "bloop" sound whenever a killer vaults a window. Most people could avoid a free hit from the "surprise" factor if they just learned to pay more attention - like you are forced to do as killer.
Bamboozle isn't a tool that rewards a killer for being lazy. It forces a survivor to not be lazy. You have to think of a new escape pattern and that requires on the fly adaptation. It also bumps up "bad killers" to be a real threat. People love to play against weak killers because they can loop them "forever" with very little effort. Don't be that kind of lazy.
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@jesterkind said:
Surprised so many people are saying Myers when he's pretty clearly got a bunch of advantages over other killers if you know what you're doing. He's certainly weaker than he needs to be, but he's not the weakest by a long shot. It's also not Sadako, lol.
My pick for the weakest is Clown. Trapper is a good contender, but at least he's got the capability to snowball and has some solid addons for punishing survivors with-- compare to Clown, who has two bottles that both serve the same major purpose (shortening some chases), while being completely countered by predropped pallets and having absolutely no snowball capacity. I love him dearly but he's still the weakest, he's just pretty reliable + consistent - to say nothing of how fun he is, obviously. Some of his addons do help his lacklustre power, but he's still only good at one thing and that one thing is still very easily countered.
Again, though, I love Clown, and I actually think it's a good sign that the weakest killer is as dependable as Clown. He's still perfectly playable, after all!
Weakest killer depends on the limitations. Michael Myers can play at "A" level with best addons. But he's probably C or D tier with none. By comparison Trapper and Pig are just built poorly. No addon combination makes them "A" tier. Both Trapper and Pig become highly ineffective in a large number of the game's realms.
Playing trapper with no grass is just not fun. Why? Because some people play the game with filters. There is nothing wrong with using filters as they are 100% allowed by the developers.
filter op.pngLikewise Pig is not fun on any Open Map. Crouching becomes pointless and you basically have no power - other than the fact that you can potentially use STBFL. Both Trapper and Pig are absolutely pathetic without addons. Pig doesn't really have amazing addons but she has some "ok" options. Trapper is night and day different with Bloody Coil (disarming traps damages you) & Iridescent Stone (one trap resets every 30 seconds). But even with those addons he won't play too well "off grass". The most powerful weapon in the trapper arsenal are "sinking traps" that are invisible - but this is an exploit and is not something you should do as they fix those positions eventually.
If we were making a list based on no addons I would probably put Wraith at the very bottom. Even on a map with no Grass Trapper can place traps to block pallets. This creates a hard stop with no way to avoid it. Wraith without any addons is abysmal. You move around quickly and can find people but they can vault a window and you don't even get a free hit. You're moving around the map slower than Ring and you're just as pathetic in chase.
I've watched CMWinter enough to know that Pig has some crazy potential if you play her well.
I've watched TheEntityLeftHand enough to know that Trapper has some potential if you play well enough.
From what I know - there is no "famous" Wraith main. Marth can play a mean wraith and he loves wraith dearly but I would bet against him if it were a no addon challenge between him and the other two mains.
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@PigMainBigBrain said:
Nemesis.
Giving survivors free health states....on repeat. Is pretty bad. Even with the anti loop capability, you have to cut through several survivors worth of health states to make it actually have an impact. By the time you've cut through all those health states, shy of camping, the game is over.
I'll bet you $10,000 I can do better with Nemesis than you can do vs who I think is the worst killer across all maps in the game - in a no addon challenge vs SWF groups that will rotate across a full rotation against all maps (and repeat that process 10 times).
You should really try him with Save the best for last. You only have to whip two or three people the whole game. You whip twice to get tier two and then you will only whip the obsession unless you would otherwise get nothing at a loop. There are pretty common circumstances where you can get two hits faster with 8 stacks as Nemesis than a nurse can down a survivor with blinks.
@PigMainBigBrain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3129997#Comment_3129997
Sadako has more map control and multi presence than Trapper or Nemesis.
I love nemesis zombies don't get me wrong. But they're pretty useless and unbearably slow most of the time unless the stars align during certain add on combinations....add on reliance is terrible. Trapper has no high mobility.
In DBD if we're going by priority of what kills more people as a whole.
Mobility is King>Followed by the ability to insta down>followed by Side Objectives. <-- Doesn't matter what killer you're playing, doesn't matter what killer comes out in the future, unless they completely revamp this game those 3 factors are the strongest factors in determining if a killer can actually keep up with survivor power creep. PERIODT.
Nemesis has mobility? No.
Nemesis has Insta downs? No.
Nemesis has side objectives that waste significant time? Of all the killers with side objectives his are about the most ignorable. And his status effect from infection is also ignorable.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3129978#Comment_3129978
Which would be great.....if he didn't have to cut through a bunch of health states to even reach that point to begin with. The problem with nemesis (among many others) is that he's a snowball character, his power builds...but the payoff just makes you go why? The payoff is effectively what nemesis base kit should be considering the actual bonuses are...not that powerful when you consider the above 3 factors that make a killer top tier or not.
Does his snowball give him mobility? No.
Does his snowball give him an insta down? No.
Does his snowball give him extra side objectives? No.
So effectively its just there for padding. There isn't much in his kit at all including add ons that would make me go "OH this combo for sure is DEFINISTRATING survivors on SIGHT!"
He's effectively an M1 killer, with a snowball to charge up before he actually gets a worthwhile active ability. And when you compare him to other killers who have snowball types of effects and charges....its not worth it. As I said before...it just feels like it should have been his base kit.
Make it a mantra when analyzing a killers strength.
Mobility
Lethality
Objectives
^ any of those 3 on a killer will make them instantly viable, no matter what.
But if you don't have any, or if the one you do have is weak...the killer ends up weak as a whole and you fall into the territory of (((This games outcome is completely reliant on how dumb survivors are or how many mistakes they make, and not based on how skillful I am)))
"Mobility, Lethality, Objectives"
I will suggest a new category for you to consider : Tunnel Potential. Most of the M1 killers suck at tunneling because someone who is about to die can just throw all the pallets and extend a chase long enough to punish you. You can't do that vs Nemesis. Because he can run STBFL Nemesis is quite good at tunneling. Body blocks help you when you are building stacks (you can't both be evasive and protect someone if you are the obsession if I use my whip on you). Hitting people as they get unhooked helps you build more stacks.
You also ignore: 4v1 potential. Pinhead's cube can interrupt all 4 survivors. Zombies can stop or slow gen repairs while you are in a chase. Doctor can force you the team to "snap out" and not be able to do anything else. These are a few examples but we also have the snowball potential from killers like Myers, Oni, Huntress and Nurse who have the potential to chain damage really quickly. Even though this bleeds into the lethality category it is usually considered to be part of this category as you can sometimes pressure everyone at once.
You seem to have a grasp of the game's mechanics but I don't think you've ever really watched someone good play Nemesis. You underestimate how good he is at zoning survivors. Nemesis has a Huge advantage when it comes to Lethality over Ring. Nemesis Blight and Nurse have one of the most supreme advantages in the game in that they can almost ignore pallets with their power.
Mobility becomes far less valuable if you tunnel someone out of the game. Nemesis also becomes stronger when you tunnel someone out of the game because suddenly it becomes a 3v3 game. Yes the zombies often do not help you but with almost any other killer you have 100% chance of zero outside help.
The other thing to consider is that Mobility doesn't matter if you hard camp and control a three gen setup. This point is easily illustrated when playing infinite tier three Michael Myers and you hook a survivor in the middle of a three gen setup. How do you get a safe save? You don't. Likewise how do you get a safe save vs Nemesis with 8 stacks? You don't. If I punch you on your way to the hook I will recover before you can make the unhook. If I punch you as you are unhooking you will be down before you have a chance to dead hard.
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The perk I hate most as a surviovr is Save the Best for Last - which is why I love playing with it.
When a killer is allowed to build max stacks (and keep them) if gives you such a huge advantage. Unlike NOED you actually have to work for it. Similarly to NOED you can down people extremely quickly.
I don't mind when a killer brings Bamboozle because I have a lot of time using it myself and I know very well how it changes loops.
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@KnotEnthusiast said:
I don't mind 99% of perks, especially now that Tinkerer got nerfed down to single use, eliminating the Ruin Undying Tinkerer return to gen Blights. Certain combos are annoying like Pain Res/Dead Man's, but those are more annoying because you're dependent on your teammates not being dumb and blocking every gen.
The only perk I ever really just groan when I see is Bamboozle. It's just a lazy perk to slap on when you don't feel like learning how to correctly run tiles, and it reduces every single chase to just dropping pallets on a timer because the interesting window vault plays get removed. Plus 99% of players that run it just hold W and bloodlust because you're prevented from using windows anyway.
"It's just a lazy perk to slap on when you don't feel like learning how to correctly run tiles, and it reduces every single chase to just dropping pallets on a timer"
Bamboozle is a strong perk because it forces you to drop pallets on my terms not yours. You can force survivors to use the pallet on the first loop not the third or fourth. The alternative is that you force them to take a hit.
Bamboozle is a balanced perk because unlike Blood Favor you can't get rid of it.
Bamboozle is also a "bandaid" perk that is necessary when the game puts tiles together that otherwise would be a near infinite loop. Unfortunately it is also a perk that does almost nothing on some maps.
Bamboozle is one of the most powerful perks in the game for reducing chase times against extremely good survivors. Somewhere around 97% of survivors I go against have no idea how they are supposed to run tiles if I have bamboozle. I like those odds.
But what really makes Bamboozle good is when you pair it with Save the Best for Last on Demo or Nemesis. Greedy survivors who are really good at looping will often choose to give you a hit instead of "wasting" strong pallets. And if you have 8 stacks you can usually down them before they get to a new tile. Both of these killers can play the entire game and keep 8 stacks unless they are forced to hit the obsession while hooking.
This two perk strategy really makes people mad. And while this isn't the goal it goes to show that the combination is very effective. They will always say, "you have no skill" or "you play like a noob with beginner perks". What they mean is : I hate the way you play the game because it denies me the ability to run loops like I want to.
And that's exactly what you want as killer. You want to find an angle that makes you stronger and your opponent weaker. The best part about Bamboozle is that there is quite often nothing you can do about it even if you know I have it.
@KnotEnthusiast said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3130225#Comment_3130225
In combo with Bamboozle for sure, but I would significantly prefer killer that vault windows to chase rather than to block. My issue with Bamboozle is it just eliminates the window entirely, where mindgaming around windows is IMO one of the most interesting aspects of the chase.
"My issue with Bamboozle is it just eliminates the window entirely, where mindgaming around windows is IMO one of the most interesting aspects of the chase."
In other words you only like leading the killer around in a chase when you are in control. No thank you. Mind games are generally a waste of time when you can take a perk like Bamboozle and force the outcome you want in a chase. Mind games work on people who aren't very good but they do not work on the very best survivors.
Ever since we had stretched resolution and other dubious methods of "game enhancements" I figured that on average the fastest way to down the very best survivors is to just follow their path exactly. Fast break the pallets, block the window and you will very quickly force a hit. If you watch streamers with 5-9k hours you will find that at about 50% of the time the mind game backfires.
What you can do in this situation is always follow them exactly until the last chase. They know exactly what you are going to do because you conditioned them that you will follow them exactly. And then finally at the end you can use a mind game. I find this is way more difficult to anticipate because they are so "sure" they know exactly what you will do.
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@Paz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3126559#Comment_3126559
I'd just like to know whenever I'm going against a SWF so I can DC before the game starts. SWF was a huge mistake for the game. I'll die on this hill
SWF without any kind of balance buffs for the killer was a huge mistake as DBD was a game built with indecision in mind. You are not supposed to know if you should keep working your generator, go for the save or hide. You always know which action to do when you are in a SWF.
Imagine playing games where no one is talking, the survivors are all talking, or the survivors are all talking but you can hear them talking. The scenario where the survivors are all talking is the scenario where they have the advantage. About 1/3 of the perks in this game become pointless if you can talk to each other.
@Kaitsja said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3129812#Comment_3129812
Proximity Chat presents several problems as it assumes everybody is speaking the same language. In America, the primary spoken language is English, but then you have Europe where there are many different languages all encompassed under the one region.
Then you have to take into account people who don't much fancy the idea of communicating with strangers. Then there's the children, because children play this game too. This is why giving solos access to the same level of information a swf has is the best way to bridge the gap.
"This is why giving solos access to the same level of information a swf has is the best way to bridge the gap."
Let's imagine we are in a SWF. The killer comes to chase me and my generator is at 75% progress. We only need one generator to escape. If I tell you my generator is at 75% and I run far away from that generator then we are guaranteed to escape if you come to repair my generator.
If the killer kicks my generator with overcharge before chasing me and nobody does anything about it then it resets to zero after a minute. How do you balance out voice coms? If we are in a SWF I can say go to the generator near the hill besides shack. If we are all solo then you will likely start a new generator and get nothing done before my chase ends.
Do you propose that there would be a map wide 75% flashing neon sign over the generator with the most progress? This is just one advantage you get by being in a SWF.
Do you propose that solo players would all know the killer has Bamboozle as soon as he uses it near a survivor? This is what happens in a SWF.
Do you propose that solo players see the aura of any active totem that another solo survivor has run past? SWF don't get to see the aura but they can relay the position of the totem to their team.
In short there is no way to 100% bridge the gap between solo players and SWF. But there is a really simple shortcut to make the game a lot less unfair to the killer and solo survivor when they play in a game with a SWF. Give solo surviovrs 4 information perks of their choice that active in case of SWF. Give the killer any 4 perks of their choice that activate later in case they play against SWF.
I think you will find that most killers would enjoy playing against SWF with 8 perks. Most SWF would absolutely hate it - because their advantage would dramatically decrease.