DBDVulture
DBDVulture
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3129016#Comment_3129016
Giving solos the same level of information swf gets bridges the gap. This means things like basekit kindred, and HUD Icons that tell you what each survivor is doing.
Swf gets no benefit from this because they already have this information. That addresses the Solo vs Swf imbalance. For killers, basekit regression buffs and smaller maps. That addresses the imbalance between killers and swfs in a way that's fair for everyone. Then the survivor role can be nerfed as a whole.
There is no justifiable reason why killers should be OP by mere virtue of them being killers. This is not a simulator where you play against bots.
"Giving solos the same level of information swf gets bridges the gap. This means things like basekit kindred, and HUD Icons that tell you what each survivor is doing."
So you're basically implementing my idea but only for the solo survivors. You give the survivors more basekit perks but nothing for the killer..... right.
"This is not a simulator where you play against bots."
Do you know why they buffed killers with this last patch? I suspect it has something to do with the fact that most people who play this game do not play killer. There is a huge disparity in the number of people who want to play killer vs the number that want to play survivor. Before you say the ratio should be 1:4 you need to realize the numbers are way more skewed than that.
Earlier this year survivor queue times were closing in on 10 minutes. It was happening because there were in some cases 40 people playing killer while 4,000+ people were playing survivor in the same region.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3119831#Comment_3119831
No it is just very much buggy. I have played Nemesis, in fact I played him A LOT when his chapter came out and his tentacle strike is one of the most inconsistent, and poorly implemented killer powers IMO.
Sometimes the animation doesn't play and I'm getting hit by thin air. Sometimes I get hit when he very clearly missed. Sometimes I don't get hit when the tentacle went right through me. Sometimes the animation plays twice and his arm like weirdly jerks forward.
These are just some examples I found online (they aren't mine):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvMGKS5eGtc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkh-9UiGJj0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryqDWhWMed8
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/w1C-Dk2rpCE
TL;DR His power is a mess.
"TL;DR His power is a mess."
Only your third video is an actual bug and I believe that was fixed some time ago. Your first two videos are clear examples of cases where you don't seem to understand how his power works.
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@Khelendrose2020 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3127305#Comment_3127305
I was here on release. There was no SWF. The devs even pushed back on initial requests for the ability to invite friends. It may be true the intended to eventually add it, but the game was balanced around solo play. That is a fact and one you can easily go back and see with early content creators.
You can go away with your accusations of lies and falsehoods. You need to take a chill pill and clear your head some.
"It may be true the intended to eventually add it, but the game was balanced around solo play. That is a fact..."
This is one of the things that people who want SWF to be OP have no answer for. It is the truth that DBD is balanced for solo play. Giving the killer 4 perks against SWF teams would make things a lot less "OP" for SWF. That is exactly why they fight so hard against it.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3128391#Comment_3128391
Swfs have the equivalent of team-related information perks. It doesn't really matter where the killer is when you can deduce from the hud whether or not they're in chase, and from their terror radius if they're nearby. Most swfs play just as well without comms.
Killers have no perks that are equivalent to that because their objective is the opposite. Thus giving them extra perks of their choosing to compensate would actually be busted beyond belief and allow for builds that completely prevent survivors from doing their objective.
The solution isn't to break the game by power-creeping killers and solos. The solution is to shrink maps, bridge the gap between solo and swf, nerf the survivor role as a whole, and buff killers where necessary.
Doing so will ensure killers can get downs at a consistent pace which is arguably better than just breaking the entire game because of the swf boogyeman.
"The solution is to shrink maps, bridge the gap between solo and swf, nerf the survivor role as a whole, and buff killers where necessary."
Making all the maps smaller would help. But how are you going to bridge the gap between voice coms and none? Giving killer and solo survivors extra perks to make SWF weaker would do exactly that.
"Swfs have the equivalent of team-related information perks. It doesn't really matter where the killer is when you can deduce from the hud whether or not they're in chase"
That information isn't always readily available without voice coms or aura reading perks. But if you have voice coms you don't need a perk - one of your friends can tell everyone else where they are leading the killer. Without giving solo survivors free perks how do you intended to even out that advantage? You can't.
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It's surprisingly abusive with lucky break.
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@AVoiceOfReason said:
Then why doesn't anyone LOOOOOVE going into a 20 minute match against Legion with nothing but slowdown? Why? That's because its boring as hell and no one wants to spend that long in a match. This post is for those who try to defend a nerf by saying people will take the person hostage. Dude, no one, including me, wants to be in a match for over 20 minutes just because the killer is camping. No one is gonna troll someone on live servers. That excuse is used as a justifiable nerf is just stupid. The perk is fine. Just cancel it once the last gen is done and either rescue or leave. Someone said someone else took a killer hostage for like 30 minutes or something XD Like come on XD No one wants to be in a match with nothing but twiddling your thumbs for 30 minutes to spite a killer XD
Most people hate legion. The fact that legion exists is not justification for some other stupid game element.
Reassurance should have a 2:30 minute cooldown before it can affect that same survivor again. In other words after someone uses that perk on a survivor you cannot use it again until 2 minutes pass AFTER they had the 30 second effect of pausing the timer.
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Pig already got buffs. You can't get the mask off anymore after 1 box.
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filter op.png@Ryuhi said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/A6VHVCV1HZX7/20220625050603-1.jpg
I am always a fan of its patrician visibility balancing.
Just use filters. My dad always harped on the value of brand names. I have a Sony TV that is over 20 years old. Likewise I have extreme brand loyalty with Nvidia.
These are the filter settings from a friend of mine with an Nvidia card.
As for the building - yes it is a little unfair. It's basicaly a "bamboozle" check. Do you have Bamboozle? If yes then the building might be fair. The building is also fair for "nurse". When people say Nurse nerf we need to account for the fact that some of the tiles in the game are only fair to killer if you bring Nurse.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3127914#Comment_3127914
Here's what happens when you tell the killer they're playing against a swf: Lobby dodge.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3127904#Comment_3127904
Tournaments have different rules because there's prize money on the line and the rules apply to both survivors and killers. If you wanted to place restrictions on survivors, it'd only be fair for restrictions to be applied to killer as well.
"Here's what happens when you tell the killer they're playing against a swf: Lobby dodge."
Let's talk about this for a second. Why does a killer dodge a lobby? They see something in the looby that says I don't want to play against that. So what about a SWF makes a killer want to dodge a lobby? SWF gives an advantage and they would rather not play against that given the choice.
If as I have said in other places I get +4 perks of my choice for playing against SWF groups then I would ALWAYS want to play against SWF groups (the perks would be chosen ahead of time and only activate if the game inlcuded a SWF team. Any non SWF players would get +4 information perks).
One of the advantages you get in a SWF is that you don't need to spend perks to see auras. You never need to bring perks like Rookie Spirit because your team can tell you where the gens are. You never need to bring Kindred because your friend can tell you if you are being camped. Your friends can tell you when they throw shack pallet so you know not to go there. You can call out a location to meet friends to go to heal each other - making perks like bond/empathy completely unnecessary.
All the while you get the benefit of those perks without actually selecting those perks. You get the best of both worlds as you get information perks as a result of talking in your SWF and you can bring whatever action perk you want. This allowed for SWF groups to bring the "ultimate" build in previous patches : Unbreakable, DH, DS, BT.
Do you know what happened when people used that build in solo queue? They got destroyed compared to when they used it in a SWF. In short being in a SWF gives you extra perks.
If the solo players in the game with a SWF got extra perks to compensate it would make SWF far less valuable. Take a moment for example to imagine playing against nurse with 8 perks. What can you come up with?
How about : No way out, Remember Me, Overcharge, Call of Brine, Starstruck, Agitation, Floods of Rage, Lethal Pursuit.
That would be fun to play against - right?
If you think that would not fun to play against then how much fun is it to play against a SWF team that uses voice coms to gain an advantage?
How many perks worth of information you get out of a SWF varies as some groups are only one or two perks but when I play in a SWF it's closer to about 16 perks worth of information. Many years ago there was an exploit that allowed killers to use as many perks as they wanted. This was called cheating and was patched out of the game. Meanwhile being able to talk and bring 2-16 extra perks worth of information is just "standard" for SWF? Hello?
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3126954#Comment_3126954
MMR merely attempts to find you a balanced match. If it can't, you get whatever because we can't have long queue times.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3126801#Comment_3126801
This is blatantly false, as confirmed by MandyTalk in a previous thread. The game was always intended to have swf, and it is intended for them to be communicating. The feature simply wasn't ready at launch.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3126996#Comment_3126996
Absolutely not. As I said above, swf is an intended feature. It is also intended for them to be communicating. All this would accomplish is making swf players quit or lobby dodge until they got each other. Both of these would skyrocket queue times and do absolutely nothing to help solo queue.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3126936#Comment_3126936
Tournament players represent less than 1% of the player base. They have their own rules because of their skill level. Making swf play by a ruleset that only applies to swf is punishing them for playing with their friends.
Out of all swfs, bully squads represent less than 1% and are few and far between.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3126550#Comment_3126550
Nurse needs to be reworked from the ground up. Nurse is an outdated killer that can never truly be considered balanced without absolutely gutting her.
Instead, maps should be reduced in size, solo's buffed to close the gap between swf, the survivor role then nerfed as a whole and killers buffed accordingly based on those changes.
If killers can get downs at a consistent pace, then all that communication you're all so worried about isn't going to matter. I don't recall who said this, but it's a statement that definitely rings true.
"as confirmed by MandyTalk in a previous thread. The game was always intended to have swf, and it is intended for them to be communicating. The feature simply wasn't ready at launch."
This statement is fundamentally false as we learned from M. Cote years ago that the game was originally designed as a 2 person game : 1 person chases and 1 person was chased.
"Making swf play by a ruleset that only applies to swf is punishing them for playing with their friends."
Playing in a SWF gives you huge advantages. You can call out totem locations, perks or addons the killer is using and can tell each other which gen has the most progress. For 5 years the devs said : playing in a SWF gives no advantage. Then on year 6 they made the statement : playing in a SWF group gives you a 15% escape advantage on average.
Do you remember when Freddy got nerfed? It was because he had a 4% higher kill rate.
"Out of all swfs, bully squads represent less than 1% and are few and far between."
This is made up data you do not have access to. It is your opinion that you present as fact with no evidence. The fact that SWF increases your escape chances by 15% suggests that bully squads are far more likely to happen in a SWF than in solo queue.
@Kaitsja said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3127312#Comment_3127312
Gutting her like the whining children want wouldn't balance the game, so we're in agreeance.
Actually this is wrong too. There is one killer better than every other so whenever a map is designed you have to consider how the best killer would play on that map and how the worst killer would play on that map. The same goes for perk balancing. Pop for example might have been nerfed because it made Nure too efficient when she has very short chases in average at high MMR.
If we disabled Nurse and Blight for a period of 30-90 days for evaluation testing we would find that the escape rates in DBD would be : far too high again.
@Huge_Bush said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3127305#Comment_3127305
As long as all of your suggestions are implemented at the same time or before reworking her then sure, rework her. But gutting her like so many whining children want, without reducing map sizes and obscene strong loops and tiles, and making things fair for all killers to compete with the power of SWF, shouldn’t happen.
We all know it’ll never happen. It’s too much work for the devs to actually go into every map and balance them to be fair. They like how the game has crap rng. They also know reworking Nurse will alienate a large portion of the player base, which is why they didn’t touch her powers when they rewrote her code.
"But gutting her like so many whining children want, without reducing map sizes and obscene strong loops and tiles, and making things fair for all killers to compete with the power of SWF, shouldn’t happen."
There are two killers capable of handling every map size in the game and those killers are Nurse/Blight. Everyone is clearly aware those two killers are far too good compared to every other killer in the game. Their base kit is too strong and they have problematic addons that are far too strong. These two killers either need to get a lot worse or all the other killers need to get a lot better. Either choice is "fine" but that does not adress the problem of map size.
Imagine if we had some maps that were 15000m² where only nurse and Blight could play. That would generally speaking be grossly unfair to those killers in the same way that playing on 11,000m² maps is unfair to almost all the other killers. All the maps in this game need to go down to 9000m² or smaller.
"They like how the game has crap rng."
Yea this sucks but is true. In general they designed NOED to be the "equalizer" so that when the game is basically over the killer has parity. Unfortunately they nerfed the perk so you don't get 9% move speed anymore and it is now a hex totem that shows its aura instead of lasting forever and being able to be removed.
At this point NOED should cease to exist. I used it exactly once since the change to finish a challenge from an Old Tome that I had overlooked. And since NOED would no longer exist we can start making balanced tiles that are spread out. Imagine how much more interesting DBD would be if the game tiles could not be clustered up - as per Scott Jund's "dream patch notes" video.
The devs absolutely could balance this game and make the RNG far less bad. But as you sate - they clearly do not want to do that. The game is much worse off for it as a result.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3126913#Comment_3126913
I don't have the patience to explain to you in detail why it boils down to a skill issue if you can't beat a swf. When solos have access to the same level of information swfs has, you'll understand that comms don't make up for a lack of skill.
You listening in on a streamer's comms doesn't mean they have an advantage, it means you have an advantage, because you know their next move before they make it. It's why stream sniping is frowned upon. That is an unfair advantage, and swfs with comms is intended.
"When solos have access to the same level of information swfs has"
This will never happen. Do you know why? Because it's one thing for a menu hud to say Jake is repairing a generator, Nea is being chased and dwight is running to a hook. But it another thing entirely to be able to say in voice chat : the killer has a lit totem behind the concrete pillar at the end of the street. Need another example? There are traps on the Killer Shack doors but not on the window. That level of information is borderline cheating.
"You listening in on a streamer's comms doesn't mean they have an advantage, it means you have an advantage, because you know their next move before they make it. It's why stream sniping is frowned upon. That is an unfair advantage, and swfs with comms is intended."
Given your previous statement this is illogical.
This statement admits:
1) I flip the advantage of voice coms by listening to streamers
2) This implies you are aware that voice coms give an advantage.
If players were in a SWF and did not talk then would they have an advantage over solo queue? Some games they would have better allies with random assortment.
You know how in star wars Anakin was supposed to bring Balance to the Force? The Jedi thought that meant one thing and it meant something completely different.
My example where I give solo players (survivor and killers) extra perks does exactly that. But that is appalling to people like you who want to keep SWF untouched because it gives you an advantage when you play in a SWF group.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3126429#Comment_3126429
If they are doing that at 5 gens, i think something wrong with them. Especially after DS was gutted by BHVR.
Survivors tunnel generators so the only response is for killers to tunnel survivors.
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@akanadi said:
punishing players for playing with their friends is straight up cruel and you gotta take into account that not all players have thousands of hours and not all SWFs are in comms what are your thoughts on this though personally i find the swf nerf debate to be confusing
SWF could have limits placed on it so you can't be a bully squad.
Add restriction : No repeated characters/perks/items in a SWF group.
Add Overhead icons to each survivor. Non repeated perks are in Blue (and look like the Vigil buff) and repeated perks are in red (like when debuffed by Monstrous Srhine.
Since most SWF groups are 2 people this has almost no effect on the majority of players.
Since having 3-4 people in a SWF is a huge advantage this will limit their ability to bully killers.
You still get to play with your friends and you aren't punished. You just play by a ruleset that is already being enforced in tournaments to make the game more fair for killer. If you don't like it then you can always play solo.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3125709#Comment_3125709
Swfs are not throwing off the balance of the game. Killers are quick to complain about the bully squads but don't notice the swfs that aren't bully squads. You pay more attention to the games you lost against a bully squad than the games you won against a casual swf who're just playing for fun.
The only difference between a swf and solo queue is information. Anything else is a player's individual skill. Communication doesn't magically make a noob play like Oracle.
"Swfs are not throwing off the balance of the game"
"The only difference between a swf and solo queue is information."
I guarantee you if I take 3 of my friends and play against you in a private match we will win more games on average with voice coms. You can say : the generator at killer shack is 50% completed. And if you rotate off a gen with 10% or less progress then you saved a ton of time. This tranlates to efficiency.
It's a lie to say that voice coms do not aid in efficiency/coordination. If I have distortion I can tell my team if the killer has Lethal or BBQ. Killers are much easier to handle when you know what perks they are using. If you are very familiar with the killer you might be able to determine the addons.
Imagine if we went into every map in DBD and had the same 4 players race to find all five totems and complete 5 gens with the killer afk. If After rotating through all the maps 10 times we removed voice coms it would be the expectation that it would take longer to find the totems/complete the gens in the next 10 rotations. For both trials we would use no perks/items to help find totems.
"Communication doesn't magically make a noob play like Oracle."
And let's have a little tournament where Oracle isn't allowed to use voice coms but everyone else in the tournament gets voice coms. Know what the result would be? Oracle loses. Communication is a huge advantage when one team has it and another team does not.
You don't have to play like Oracle to get an advantage from voice coms. I played today with 1 veteran, 1 intermediate and 1 "noob". The noob told us which killer we were facing every round thanks to the loading prompt. Even that is an advantage because you know to hide vs certain killers. Every round we called out Lethal+BBQ because someone brought distortion. We regularly called out the killer's location and that too is a huge advantage.
From time to time I get streamer in my lobby. If they are live I love to listen in to their coms when they are playing 3-4 man SWF groups. It's hilarious when people say it's ok I have DS right before I pick them up. So I don't and instead slug them. People always call out to their group if they have unbreakable. So of course I stop a chase and return to immediately pick them up. By listening to the calls they make I know exactly how to counter everything they are doing. They tell me which generators to go kick. They tell me where they put their boons. I don't watch while I play - just listen. But the information they give me always throws the game to my favor.
If talking were not an advantage then I wouldn't listen to their stream as I played against them to try and counter that advantage.
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@Milo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3124991#Comment_3124991
Terror Radius being diffrent sizes is confusing to new players?
Most of the game elements are confusing to new players.
Honestly I kind of feel like killers should be able to toggle a +/- 8m change to their terror radius as base kit.
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@Araphex said:
I don't know about slowing down gen speeds further than what they already are, but definitely not a bad idea. Not a great idea either. But the first time I've seen something along the lines of balancing based on party members. And no it's not punishment for playing with friends. In fact, survivors are supposed to be punished. The Entity is all about punishing the survivors, especially those who work together. It's called turning up the difficulty level when players are playing together. The Entity demands sacrifice and I'm sure the devs will deliver something to us eventually. They started with the latest patch buffing killers overall. But I still like the idea of the devs giving solo q survivors more info with HUD indicators. And SWFs are basically more balanced now with killers. A little off here and there but manageable.
But like I said, not a bad idea, not a great idea. Something new and refreshing and ignore the haters. They just want games handed to them because they are playing with friends.
"I still like the idea of the devs giving solo q survivors more info with HUD indicators. And SWFs are basically more balanced now with killers"
The last patch nerfed killers against SWF and buffed them against solo queue. Why? Instant regression was massively better vs SWF teams because you could take 20 seconds off a generator multiple times instantly. Or if you had Pain Res you could take away 40% of a gen's progress instantly.
Kick perks like Overcharge/CoB are only effective when at least one player is dead and one player is on a hook. Otherwise there is just no pressure on the survivor as they can go back to a kicked generator.
As for giving solo que players more information - this is a mistake. You are supposed to pay with perk slots to be able to see auras and have extra information. Now then if you are advocating for the killer to have 6 slots base kit and survivors to always have hud information as to what people are doing? Sure thing.
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The bottom line is that M1 killers are not viable.
1) Maps are too big. Only Blight and Nurse can handle maps larger than 9000m² because they move very quickly.
2) Maps are too safe. There are too many vaults/pallets at every turn. If the resources like pallets and vaults were better spread out to the edges of the map and the gens were all more toward the middle the game would be more fair.
3) There should be about 1 maybe 2 god pallets per map. People forget that we used to have a huge majority of weak pallets that could be mind gamed. Now most of the pallets completely remove any skill the killer has available to them unless they can instantly break the pallets or blink over them.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
First of all, punishing people who like to play with friends is dumb.
Second, what would you do when a Solo plays with a 3 man SWF? The Solo is equally punished, because they are playing wiht 3 people who have a huge penalty on Repair Speed.
Punishing people for playing with friends is not the same as limiting the power increase you get with SWF. Look at comp teams and how they relay information constantly. Look at good teams and they relay slightly less information. Look at casuals and they still relay a lot of information. At the casual level SWF still gets you about +4 perks worth of information. That's akin to cheat.
A more complicated way to balance SWF is to give any solo survivor +4 information perks that activate when they are playing solo queue AND get into a SWF game. Perks that could be chosen include : rookie spirit, bond, kindred, empathy, but NOT perks like dead hard - which is an "action" perk.
Do the same for killer. Give the killer +4 perk slots chosen before the game starts that activate only in case of SWF (that do not need to be limited to information). Now all the solo players (killer and survivor) get buffs to counteract the advantage you get while playing in a SWF.
Again you will probably say this is a "punishment". It's not - it's balancing solo queue players to the level of SWF teams.
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There need to be "limits" for what you get in a SWF group to balance out voice coms.
The easiest way to balance SWF would be to change it so that you cannot repeat : characters/items/perks. That one small change would bring a lot of balance to the game.
Show all the perks before readying up in a SWF. Make non-repeated perks appear blue (like the vigil buff) and repeated perks red (such as monstrous shrine debuff icon).
Now you have limits and can see what perks your friends are using without asking. This also prevents any type of "bully squads".
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At one point there was the intended effect that hooks would respawn. Apparently they ditched that design and overall it is pretty stupid as an idea.
If you are really trying hard and you know you will die you can force where you will die. If a friend does the same you can make a dead zone with two people where no one else can be hooked in that area ever again.
This is unlikely to turn a match randomly often but it does happen over the course of hundreds of games. And if people are trying to make it happen it definitely has an influence on the game.
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@JakeCannon said:
This games MMR sucks. I understand it's hard to have concrete rules to determine MMR but until something changes I'm lobby dodging like a mf. If I'm a p4 hag I'm not going against 4 p15 fangs.
Your prestige level has almost nothing to do with how experienced you are compared to your opponent.
You could in theory be prestige 300 on trapper and play hag all day - putting the points into trapper.
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@Kaitsja said:
Killers are still stacking slowdown perks, killers are also still camping and tunneling. The only good thing to come of this big patch were the nerfs to Dead Hard and the buffs to killer.
You have successfully managed to make playing survivor feel awful. Playing killer felt awful pre-patch, but all your meta shakeup did was reverse which role feels awful to play.
Merciless Storm + Pain Res wasn't a problem because MS can only proc once per gen. Now we're back to PR + DMS, which is annoying and boring.
Next time you guys want to increase kill rates, think about why kill rates are low. If a killer only manages to get 1 kill because they tunneled the entire game, that's a skill issue and they shouldn't be rewarded for it. Think about how certain perks allow for escapes.
Now more than ever, we need changes that actively discourage tunneling. 5 seconds BT basekit is a joke. Pre-patch, killers just waited it out anyway after making sure they hooked you away from pallets and loops.
Now with DH being dead, DS being pointless, chases being shorter, BBQ no longer providing BP and gens taking longer to complete, killers have absolutely zero reason to not tunnel.
Killers stack slowdown because survivors still tunnel out generators. Stop that behavior and killers might not feel that they have to tunnel too.
SWF has more advantage this patch than it did last patch and that contributes to why killers are tunneling people out.
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@Brayton said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3077288#Comment_3077288
Well see that is true but that is like a spot that is fun to get them stuck on cuz it blockes a entre to that part of the map. I can see that that is the new RPD but that was also on the old RPD the case i forgot to add that in there. But yeah i don't expect them to change Zombies anytime soon
The zombies dont really block anything by them being there.
Also Nemesis is 2-3 DLC's old so why bother fixing him? That's how they handle things around here.
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@ShyPirate said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3121507#Comment_3121507
There are 3 perks available in 40-49 but you can only buy two. Level 50 has four available but you can still only buy two. You could never get more than two perks in a single bloodweb.
Yes and in the previous system you could buy two perks every time starting around level thirty. The only time you did not get the option to buy two of four perks was when you had only a few perks remaining and then it would show three perks. This happened around the time there were only about five perks left to buy in total.
Just to be clear there are plenty of perks left to purchase on my new character.
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@amazing_grace said:
By chance, do you have perks unlocked from prestiging other characters?
If so, you're blood webs won't have as many perks on them because there aren't that many perks you need to buy still. Hence, yes there is faster progression if you have other characters prestiged already. The amount of perks you get per web should be the same and if it's not, then this is a bug.
The fact that I get 3 perks for 20 levels where I used to get 4 and only get 4 perks at level 50 tells me they rigged the system.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/339538/truth-on-nurse
I am a nurse main with 2k hours. She is overpowered, but a nerf will not fix her. She need a complete rework.
HOWEVER. She should not be "dealt with" until the power of SWF is dealt with:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtENJZ_z0zw&t=4s
Stuff like this should not be allowed. We need to buff solo queue so that they have more information. SWF like this get dozens of perks for free and many other abilities that aren't perks. Then we need to buff killers as a whole.
We need to close the gap between solo and SWF or flat out remove SWF or make them a different queue that killers can queue into and get bigger rewards. Maybe make it a new game mode entirely that has different balance than solo queue by having different numbers for things/objectives.
"She should not be "dealt with" until the power of SWF is dealt with"
Most people don't get it. But this video goes to show that very good players can relay levels of information that would require 12-20+ perks to be in the same level of awareness. People will say oh this is the 1% so it's fine. This is a bad idea to allow in the game because it makes balancing impossible.
People go nuts when I suggest SWF should have : No character repeats, No Item repeats, No perk repeats. That is a very simple change that makes the SWF platform less viable for abuse. It will have almost zero effect on 2 man teams which is more than half of the SWF players (based on last time we got stats for SWF usage). All they would need to do is add an interface where you can see the perks of other SWF members in a group over their head similar to how they would appear next to your perks if they were buffs like Vigil. Non-repeated perks are blue and repeated perks turn red.
Have you seen the video he made where he plays nurse?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEzpkirSaNcNo perks - No addons
It's just 100% stomping skill with near perfect blinks.
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Sadly the Zombies always get stuck here on this map.
It goes to show they did very little testing with zombie pathing/getting stuck.
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@neb said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3115504#Comment_3115504
what are you saying... I said right now if a nurse does a downward blink (assuming they're not running omega blink), and the survivor predicts/sees that, they can usually run away and make distance, especially if by your changes, the lunge and distance will be decreased, as well as the distance addons being deleted. What I'm saying is that downward blinking will be even more easier to go against, even without change number 4, hence why we don't need change number 4, since it's overkill.
By making it so that nurse can't blink downwards, that removes almost any counter a nurse can do when someone doubles back. YOU'RE the one asking for barely any counter play. You either did not read what I said or are just purposefully ignored my points for your narrative, but I'm gonna go with the benefit of the doubt and say it's the former.
This video shows a perfect example of how floor blinking is abusive. You see it twice in chases against Jill. It creates a catch 22 scenario where they lose if they run and they lose if they dont. Both options are attempted.
Note: Hens is using no addons.
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@neb said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3115504#Comment_3115504
what are you saying... I said right now if a nurse does a downward blink (assuming they're not running omega blink), and the survivor predicts/sees that, they can usually run away and make distance, especially if by your changes, the lunge and distance will be decreased, as well as the distance addons being deleted. What I'm saying is that downward blinking will be even more easier to go against, even without change number 4, hence why we don't need change number 4, since it's overkill.
By making it so that nurse can't blink downwards, that removes almost any counter a nurse can do when someone doubles back. YOU'RE the one asking for barely any counter play. You either did not read what I said or are just purposefully ignored my points for your narrative, but I'm gonna go with the benefit of the doubt and say it's the former.
I see the problem as : if Billy/LF misses with his chainsaw and hits terrain he gets stunned. Nurse that mistimes a blink should need to wait a second and use a blink for distance to correct. There should be almost zero difference.
@PapiFelixPSN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3115509#Comment_3115509
The devs are already balancing around SWF. Adding voice comms is something that'll happen eventually. Same for killer buffs.
"The devs are already balancing around SWF."
We have had this rhetoric for six years. What negative changes were made to SWF to make it "less good" than it is now so it offers no advantage over solo queue?
There aren't any because they do not want to make the survivor mob angry. There are about 20 perks that deal with auras or vision on the killer in some way. You can completely ignore such perks in a SWF because you can relay that information via voice.
Just imagine for a minute if you got all the aura detection perks activated for free as killer in addition to your other perks when playing against a SWF. That would be absolutely silly and you would constantly be bombarded with survivor auras. That's the level of information that is relayed by a good SWF group.
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@PapiFelixPSN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3115412#Comment_3115412
Solo is weak because of teammates. But if you're so hung up over voice comms, just add them to the base game. Simple.
Adding voice coms to the base game is not the whole solution. You would be moving the potential survivor skill level up so the killer would need to get buffed to compensate.
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@neb said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3115485#Comment_3115485
Ok if a survivor is a good amount of distance from you, are you going to charge your blink to catch up to them or just do a small blink and risk the survivor holding w and you losing a ton of distance and time. That’s what the 4th change sounds like it’s gonna do. On top of the fact that nurse will have a smaller lunge with this change, this’ll just make it horrible to play as combined.
her blinking downwards was never a problem, you could fake a double back, then when she blinks downwards, start running away. A fully charged blink downwards is super slow as well, so you’d make a good amount of distance. On top of it the suggested distance nerf, and her lunge being shorter, as well as distance addons being removed, suggestion 4 just seems like overkill .
"her blinking downwards was never a problem, you could fake a double back, then when she blinks downwards, start running away."
Your example shows that you do not understand what I am trying to say. You want there to be no consequences when a nurse blinks the wrong distance. Sure thing - let's make Ghostface not get punished when he gets revealed; let him now do a "no you didn't" and have his cloak back.
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@PapiFelixPSN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3115465#Comment_3115465
I already said range needs to be removed my guy. Your ENTIRE argument is about range.
Recharge isn't very impactful, so I don't care if you remove it.
And no, Nurse doesn't bottleneck perks, as every killer since Trickster has had a good Nurse perk
"And no, Nurse doesn't bottleneck perks"
Nurse, Blight and Spirit with best addons most definitely influence perk effects as well as many other game facets. These three killers have much better performance than all the rest. They also influence map design - unfortunately. When we get map reworks it's very rare they set the bar low so that M1 killers are considered. M1 killers get obliterated on The Game but Nurse, Blight and Spirit do just fine.
Shelter woods is absolutely huge. This is fine for Huntress who can shoot very far but moves slowly. This map completely ruins trapper and other M1 killers that have to lumber around.
Imagine for example if we could just "except" the slow moving killers to not play any map larger than say 9500m². That would be one way to change the game. Or we could try to make Nurse, Blight and Spirit not have a tremendous advantage on large maps.
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@neb said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3113495#Comment_3113495
I like everything except point 4. If you’re at a far enough distance, and nurse will have to charge their blink. This’ll just make easy counter play as the survivor can literally just double back since they know the nurse has to charge up her blink since she’s too far.
That's entirely the point. If Billy uses his saw sprint and misjudges an angle he hits a wall and get stunned. Therefore if nurse misjudges a blink and goes too far she should lose a lot of distance on the survivor. If you make a mistake with your power there should be consequences.
https://cdn4.vectorstock.com/i/1000x1000/27/68/circle-with-degrees-marked-vector-9922768.jpg
Once upon a time Billy had the ability to flick with his saw; that is to say he could charge a survivor at 90 degrees and in the middle of the sprint he could change the attack angle of the saw. You would think he can only attack someone that was on his right relative to his previous position in a 30° cone. Imagine for example if Billy did a 90 degree sprint and initiated his attack and you vaulted at a 180° angle through a window. Well old billy had the ability to make the saw swipe change and now attack you at 180° as he ends the sprint. This was how he worked on release and for a long time after.
Everyone who played Billy at the time thought this change was completely unfair. But honestly removing this flick made billy from an unfair killer into a fair killer who was widely considered to be "s" tier at the time (nurse was double "S tier"). I have a P3 Billy and was a Billy main at the time; I wanted this change to come to the game because the ability to flick made the killer require zero skill.
Nurse needs to change. It will take many facets of change for her to become a fair killer relative to all the killers beneath her. It's silly that we have two killers that are miles above all other killers.
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@PapiFelixPSN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3114812#Comment_3114812
God Nurses are also a small % of players. Tournament squads are literally as rare as good Nurses. If one isn't a problem because it's rare, the other is ALSO not a problem because it's rare.
If you think you can't avoid a Nurse, you're wrong. The better player will ALWAYS win a Nurse chase. Any complaint about ANYTHING other than Range add-ons is a skill issue.
Also, Blight is stronger than Nurse when talking about basekit, so exactly how is she a cut above?
You're making the mistake that the developers made. They look at the stats and say oh this is fine - nurse has the lowest kill rate and needs some changes. That's why we have omega blink back in the game. None of the streamers who can play this game at high levels think that is a good idea.
You're also making a mistake and assuming that tournament squads are only a 1% problem. If someone is a killer main and their skill is over a certain threshold they will get high MMR survivors. If those survivors are alone the game has a better chance to be fair to the killer. The second those players are in a SWF they have extra information that helps them beyond their perk loadouts.
I suspect you see the problem is that the top 1% of survivors can dance on the grave of the top 1% of killers. The problem is deeper than that because the top 90% of survivors are better than the top 90% of killers. We can say the same thing at 85%, and 80% too. In short there has always been a skill ceiling for most of the killer platforms; if survivor skill caps at 10 then killer skill is capped somewhere between 7-10. What changes this scenario?
You will win more on fair maps and lose more on unfair maps.
You will win more with Nurse/Blight than you will with inferior killers.
You will win more vs solos than vs SWF teams.
You physically cannot avoid a nurse with the omega build at close ranges. If she blinks at the perfect spots she will hit you on either the first or second blink. What is different about this? As a survivor against most killers you make a mistake and the killer hits you (usually when you make a second mistake). When a nurse chases a survivor they need to make a mistake for them to not hit the survivor.
If you make no mistakes as nurse when chasing a survivor you will hit the survivor at every opportunity. Conversely if you make no mistakes while chasing with an M1 killer you will not always hit the survivor because your ability to chase and pressure is much smaller than nurse.
The reason to remove distance and recharge addons is to help push Nurse from S tier to A tier. Also it will make Nurse blinks 100% uniform so there is no variation in the muscle memory of her power when playing her or playing against her. Horvath made the nurse and he was working on making her blinks uniform. Unfortunately when he left the team someone took over and undid his revision plans.
Nurse will be better for the game when she is not as strong as she is right now. She needs to blink more often to catch up to survivors to remove the pattern of : blink blink hit, blink blink hit. She needs to lose some of her edge to push her down in the rankings so there are no S tier killers.
The fact that Nurse is as strong is she is now is why we have certain limits on perks - because Nurse can use them too.
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@PapiFelixPSN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3114497#Comment_3114497
It's not incredibly one sided for survivors. SWF did not buy any means get stronger, survivor as a whole got weaker. Solo queue just felt it more because most solo queue players are bad.
The game is balanced around SWF now. Some individual killers and solo queue players need buffs, but neither SWF nor Nurse needs a nerf.
And comms aren't the reason SWF is strong, either.
Survivor got weaker only in the sense that Dead Hard got nerfed. The very best players were using that perk over every other exhaustion perk. Instead of 75% of the best players now a much smaller fraction are using it (still to good effect).
The game is not balanced around SWF; the second you talk to your allies you get tons of free extra information. Once upon a time killers could equip extra perks as a result of an exploit. This was called "exploiting" when you went into a game as killer with multiple extra perks. But when survivors get the value of extra perks from talking that's fine? No.
"And comms aren't the reason SWF is strong"
Have you watched any competitive play? They are constantly calling out clock positions. The killer's trajectory is constantly updated so everyone knows where the killer is at all times.
If we took the very best team from Hexy's tournament and took away their coms they could probably beat the very worst team in the tournament. But the very best team without coms would definitively lose to the second best team with voice coms.
Voice coms give you a huge advantage. This needs to come with some negative aspect or it will never be fair to choose solo queue over playing with people you can talk to.
You can change whatever menu items you want but solo queue will never reach an approximation of equality with SWF. Talking allows for improved coordination and efficiency. It's one thing if everyone knows you are on a generator, in chase, getting a save , opening a chest, blessing a totem, or healing yourself. It's something completely different to say : Blight is using blah blah blah addons or his totem is in the jungle gym by shack or he has bamboozle.
@Dead_Harder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3114506#Comment_3114506
Sure for 2 man its relatively easy though still annoying.
For 3 and 4 man swfs it becomes very annoying.
Look i am not against the idea, it would just kill the game.
It wouldn't kill the game. People would take an extra 30-60 seconds to ready up with 3-4 man groups. Also since the new menu item would show everyone's perks above their head it would make planning team builds easier.
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There are so many unfair maps it's hard to list them all.
Most of the maps in DBD need to be shrunk down 1000-2000m². There are multiple corn maps and the only one that is remotely fair is the one that is less than 9000m².
Crow map is too big and the basement is unfair when it is in main building.
The game is unfair to all M1 killers; it's ok with Blight/Nemesis/Nurse/Pyramid Head to name a few.
The suffocation pit has way too many vault tiles together in the middle.
Lery's has way too many pallets/vaults together in short spaces and is too big.
RPD is too big but they are chopping it into at least two maps.
Shelter woods is too darn big.
Huntress maps are too big.
Basically any map that is over 9000m² needs to get chopped down so that they are 9000m² or less. That's the bare minimum for killers that don't have movement powers and may not even have full movement speed.
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@Dead_Harder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3114142#Comment_3114142
It makes playing with friends a hurdle. Casual players wont enjoy being forced to run weird perks or waste 10 minutes to figure out how to make 4 builds that makes sense without duplicate perks.
It would be pretty annoying and thats a big no no to keep casuals happy. This is coming from a killer main btw. I would love if swfs were hit like that, but realistically speaking, it would kinda kill the population.
It would be easy because you could see everyone's perks over their head (with a new interface). Perks that are not repeated are blue and perks that are repeated are red.
Most people in a swf are two man groups so it's incredibly simple to not have any repeats. Don't want hassle? Play with only one other person. Three and Four man teams together are less than 20% of the player base (From the last data set we were given). They are some of the best players with the highest win rates. High MMR teams massively raise the average of escape rates as we have some streamers with insane esacpe streaks before and after the patch.
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@PapiFelixPSN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3113495#Comment_3113495
Absolutely not on all accounts. Neither SWF not Nurse needs nerfs.
I also can't even take you seriously after this comment. You literally want Nurse to have her meme addons that make her weaker than several killers basekit, and then nerf her MORE on top of that. No. ######### no.
SWF is fine. You shouldn't be punishing anyone for playing with their friends. SWF is no longer overpowered because survivor as a role is fine now, and therefore your nerfs aren't fair to them.
SWF got stronger after the update while solo queue got weaker. Instant regression was much better against SWF.
No one is punishing you for playing with your friends. You just get restrictions that balance out the advantages that come with talking.
Alternatively we could do something like let solo survivors pick 4 information perks ( rookie spirit, alert, bond, empathy, kindred, etc) that are selected ahead of time and activate if they land in a SWF game. Meanwhile the killer gets any 4 perks of their choice that are chosen ahead of time that only activate "in case of SWF".
The problem with SWF is that it makes you instantly better the second you share information. You gain an untold number of information perks without losing anything. This breaks the game and nothing about this arrangement changed in this last patch to help the killer vs SWF.
If I could have 8 perks I would choose to play against SWF ant not play against solos all night. I almost always play against 2x2 swf or a 3-4 man group. It's not fun. When I play survivor I try to do the same. But I want SWF to be balanced and not incredibly one sided for the survivors.
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@zgameboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3114207#Comment_3114207
That's very presumptuous of you. The pink version takes 200% stalking to get permanent tier 3 where as you get the green for 90 seconds a pop at 50% more only on the first time you get tier 3. It's actually extremely efficient to run the green in concerns for time. Permanent tier 3 takes so long you are likely to have had 3 gens pop if the survivors aren't terrible and feed you stalk.
That depends entirely on how good you are with MM. In two of the last three games I played him I got infinite tier three with four generators left. The other game I got it slightly later.
You can look at all the big name streamers and the pink/purple addons are the ones they talk about that make him good - not the green bow tie. Otz, Truetalent and Coconut have a ton of expertise between them. But what do they know?
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@PapiFelixPSN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3113512#Comment_3113512
Floor blinking is fine. It adds another mindgame to her and punishes running at the killer blindly. Other than that, I agree with you. Range needs to go, and Recharge isn't necessary.
It's not a mind game it's a catch 22 and there is a huge difference. If you run and she has a blink charged she wins. If you dont run and she has a long blink charged she blinks into the floor and she wins.
How's that a mind game? A mind game would be: if the survivor makes you charge too long then you blink too far and miss. That's a mind game.
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They aren't going to make another Blight. He will probably not be good.
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@zgameboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3113470#Comment_3113470
Michael's Green bow is one of his best addons it extends your t3 a ton and only requires a little more stalking.
Literally nobody thinks that. The pink version is better for infinite t3.
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@Dead_Harder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3113495#Comment_3113495
Thats not how you nerf swf. That would be insanely frustrating to play for casual players.
I can get behind no duplicate items for swfs though. But even that is maybe too much. Honestly just buff solos first and then worry about swf.
At least that hud showing what each one is doing
Everyone literally has always said swf is about playing with friends. It's not a big deal the nerf I proposed.
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Nurse needs to have zero addons that make her blinks come back faster.
Nurse needs to have zero addons that let her blink for more distance (especially in less time).
Nurse needs to lose "floor blinking tech"; if she charges a full blink and there is not a lower floor under her then she needs to move the full distance of that blink.
Furthermore Nurse should not be altered until SWF is nerfed in the same patch. Sorry but SWF is just too efficient as the last major patch actually helped SWF against killers. Why? Because instant gen regression was completely gutted. Pop+ Pain Res as a combo is dead. That is what gave killers momentum against SWF.
Change SWF so that no perk, item or character can be repeated. Then it has advantages & disadvantages over solo queue.
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If you get downed when you took the 2nd hit, you need to be fully healed for it to work
But if you take hit, heal, then take hit again, you have it
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Nurse is dumb in that she is really easy to play once you figure her out. She is very forgiving in that she breaks most of the game physics rules. You can just blink kinda close and correct with the second blink almost all the time.
Otz had a video with some really nice suggestions on how to nerf her.
1) making her blink lunge be 50% reduced as base kit would really increase survivor counterplay as it would require more precise blinks.
2) Make her default blink be -4 meters base kit. This would make her often need to blink a few times if she didn't make a right read or made a mistake.
3) He implies that she should lose her omega blink as well as blink refresh/distance addons and this too would be a fair change. Making all her blinks be a uniform distance with a standard recharge time would make blink easier to learn and let survivors play against her better.
4) What Otz fails to address is the nurse's ability to "floor blink". Nurse can always cancel a blink by blinking into the floor. This means she does not get punished for holding a blink too long. This needs to change - if she blinks and there is no floor under her she should just zoom on ahead the full distance she charged. This would make nurse lose a "catch 22" ability she has now where she can charge a blink and not be punished if she cancels it by floor blinking.
5) Nurse is the only killer really capable of handling top tier SWF groups. So until SWF gets changed to be less efficient then nurse needs to stay as she is right now.
How should SWF get changed? Very simple : in a SWF group no character/perk/item can be repeated. That will make solo queue have an advantage in that you could have 4 characters running the exact same build. Meanwhile SWF get to play with their friends and get voice coms.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
Aka which killers don't have that good cheap addons and only good addons are rare and above?
I think probably Pinhead since his yellow and brown addons does very little to nothing. Then probably Trapper... Idk. Anyone else?
Michael Myers sucks without a pink/purple. You can only really play him with Iri for infinite T3 or purple tombstone piece. In either case these must be paired with a green addon for stalking (either generic for all or increased rate vs the obsession).
Clown is really only a threat with pinky finger.
Nemesis can play every game with one yellow+one brown addon for zombie speed. His Best addons are purple zombie speed+Yellow Zombie Speed. Both his Iri are pointless.
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@jamally093 said:
I mean a survivor who is well on the chunky side we have Clown to fill that roll for killer's but if I remember it was Monto who talked about it I guess more as a joke what would make it kinda funny is if the survivors perks were speed based also.
Doesn't Jane Qualify? She has a different hip and waist size from the other female survivors.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/339171/self-care-is-almost-unplayable-perk
Selfish care always helped the killer
Medkits only cost 3k bp buy some and like you just admitted boon healing is better Use it!
Wrong! Self Care was the same time before as someone else healing you. Previously it was half time for someone else healing but it took the action economy of two people.
If you had a medkit OR you made some great checks self care was actually better in most circumstances. How? Well until 2021 great checks removed 2.4 seconds each for gens and heals. If you used Spine Chill it was common to get 2 or 3 great checks per heal. Every now and then it was possible to see 4 great skill checks on a heal. So potentially you could save 9.6 seconds on 32 seconds changing the heal economy down to 22.4 seconds.
Furthermore the old Spine Chill made medkits more efficient so they lasted a long time with self care. From version 1.0 until nerfed in 1.7 the med kit efficiency bonus was 100% from self care. After the nerf it was still a 20% efficiency bonus so you still could be healing very fast with a med kit many times per game.
@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
Only way to make it playable is to play full healing perks just to be able to heal yourself at decent speed (slower than CoH). How is Selfcare allowed to be trown into trash bin when CoH was allready 3x better? Please buff Self-care back to 50% or at least 45%.
It's killer perk now on tier 1,2 and probably 3 as well without any healing perk.
Nerfing Self care is dumb but I think they didn't want people to stack it with the new Botany to be healing fast infinitely. In other words : because CoH and BK exist SC had to get nerfed.
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@Buffy101 said:
I was wondering how y'all feel when Survivors take an item (usually a flashlight) near the end of the timer in the Load out screen. I see it happen often. Shady or not?
Characters and items should probably be locked when you go into a lobby.
If you all bring 4 flashlights and the killer brings lightborn seeing that you all have 4 flashlights you basically just conspired to waste a perk by switching to toolboxes at the last second. Or maybe you switched to nothing anticipating Franklins.
@JakeCannon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/339101/last-minute-items
I watch for them in every single lobby. Bully groups will wait till 5 seconds before the game starts to bring 4 flashlights(or atleast 2 and 2 toolboxes)
And sometimes killers respond by quitting while the game loads. That seems pretty fair.