Coffeecrashing
Coffeecrashing
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We STILL have absolute zero feedback on killer quality of life improvements. It’s not even discussed as a possible future item.
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@KerJuice said:
They will eventually buff the killer experience again (like they did last year), once they feel comfortable with the Solo Q experience being more aligned with SWF’s. Yes, it may appear to be harder at first- but we’ll adapt in the interim. A new killer meta may even be produced as a result of this. Eruption will still be King though, as the go to perk to deliver harsh blows to Solo Q.
BHVR did not buff the killer experience last year. They only gave killer uninspired generic number buffs to raise their kill rate. Killers aren’t saying “playing killer FEELS BETTER” after they got slightly faster kicking speed”. Killers aren’t saying “playing killer FEELS BETTER” after they got slightly faster weapon recovery time.
Nothing BHVR did actually made killers feel better to play. In fact, we’ve gotten absolute zero input from BHVR that they care about the killer experience at all. They might give killers generic buffs to fix their kill rate, but at no point at all have they discussed with us if they ever plan on making quality of life changes for killers.
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I want BHVR to tell us if they purposely made the new chase music super loud, with lots of this noises, so that it’s more difficult to hear survivors. This issue was brought up on day 1 of the PTR, and we still have zero input from BHVR regarding it.
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BHVR has made it very clear that it’s important for survivors to have good quality of life (QoL) gameplay, but killers should be stuck with purposely negative QoL gameplay for sake of game balance.
We’ve heard SO MUCH about BHVR caring about survivors having QoL, but absolute zero about killer QoL. We were even told not to worry about the survivor QoL changes, because BHVR will adjust the kill rate if needed. That’s right, killers are just their kill rate %, and nothing else matters.
BHVR even gave Nurse extra loud new chase music, with purposely loud thud noises, just to make sure it’s as miserable as possible to hear survivors.
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@Huge_Bush said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3323358#Comment_3323358
I’m in the MidWest and I play anywhere from 3PM-8PM. It was fine until the last week. All I’ve been getting are fully decked out SWFs and TTVs who I can’t catch at all. And if I do, it doesn’t matter because they’ll have the gates ready, and come for an easy rescue.
I may just need to move on and only come back when I see there’s a new cosmetic for Claudette to earn.
There are a lot of survivor streamers that purposely try to rig their MMR, because they want to bully killers, so they want to get weak killer players as much as possible. They will either lower their MMR off stream, or they'll bully a killer and then accidently on purpose lose at the end of the game. This allows them to complain about how unfair killer strategies are, and they get another loss added to their MMR.
We also have tons of posts on these forums where people tell other people to rig their MMR so they don't get sweaty games, and I don't remember any mods ever chiming in on whether or not this is allowed. We also don't know if it even works, or if the MMR system knows when people are trying to rig the system.
But if the MMR system can be rigged by people purposely losing games, then that can explain why some of the matches are lopsided, because people are purposely bypassing MMR to get weaker opponents.
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@jinx3d said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3319142#Comment_3319142
your solution is teleporting through the los blockers, something only nurse can do. Hope that helps
That’s often not the solution though, because Nurse spends so much time in fatigue after blinking, that if you try following a survivor using short blinks, you’ll actually end up being overall slower than if you were just trying to walk towards the survivor.
This means Nurse will end up spending a lot of time just walking around Lery’s, until the Nurse player can be absolutely sure which room the survivor ran into after they blocked line of sight.
And the Nurse rework made her extra worse on Lery’s, because the recharge addons got nerfed, and the remaining range addons are often useless against a survivor that is stacking line of sight blockers.
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None of this addresses the fact that Nurse is miserable to play on Lery’s and RPD, without the current recharge addons. None of your fancy reworks are going to help when a survivor has so many line of sight blockers, and sound occlusion is making them completely silent. I don’t care about addons that make open maps easier. I don’t need help with open maps. I need real solutions for the garbage indoor maps where a survivor can go behind 3 different line of sight blockers in 5 seconds.
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@Chadku said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3317172#Comment_3317172
Basekit Shadowborn would be too OP.
Lowering the Chase theme volume, now that´s a QoL change especially if BHVR keeps the crappy Nurse theme.
Chase music needs to be dramatically quieter, so that killers can have a QoL increase too.
Nurse is completely unplayable for me on the PTR because of the chase music. I refuse to play a character, where survivors are instantly silent whenever they break line of sight. Chase music should be much quieter than it is on live servers, for all killers, so it’s easier for killers to track survivors that break line of sight.
We shouldn’t need to “wait and see if killers need buffs”. We should be implementing QoL improvements for survivors and killers, and then balance accordingly.
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@Emeal said:
If Killers start losing 100% then bHVR will buff Killers.
Sounds like you expect bHVR to just throw buffs around just in case.
Like Mandy says:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316797#Comment_3316797
It might not be best emotional response if you feel like Survivors are just winning rn.
But it is the most reasonable response, Observe, check numbers, Observe, check numbers again, design a solution, impelement solution, Observe, check numbers, Observe, check numbers again. REPEAT FOREVER.
The problem is that survivors are to be celebrated, and their player experience is important.... but killers are reduced to just their kill rate %, and as long as their kill rate % is good, it doesn't matter if their player experience is worse than it needs to be.
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@JediWithASniper said:
As a PSA, I’m a survivor main that plays a bit of killer from time to time. I have wanted basically this exact update for quite some time as far as bringing solo queue’s quality up a bit. However, this will be a massive buff for survivors, and I think it’s effect may be being underestimated. I predict that killers are about to start experiencing mostly 1k’s due to this buff. So the question is, how will killer’s be buffed to compensate?
I wouldn't expect anything good. In the same patch where BHVR implemented QoL improvements for survivor, they give Nurse a new chase music, that is so loud, with so many thud noises, that survivors become instantly silent when they break line of sight when the chase music is happening. This is such a giant QoL decrease for Nurse, and it feels terrible that BHVR wants to actively make the killer experience feel worse, by massively nerfing Nurse's ability to chase survivors when she doesn't have line of sight of them.
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@Mockingjay_S451 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310719#Comment_3310719
So your argument is it should be 3 kills instead of 4 because “survivors complain so much about killers slugging for the 4k.”
Here is an idea, maybe don’t slug for the 4k? If you can’t get a 4K without slugging, maybe you shouldn’t be earning an adept?
The Survivor's Handbook doesn't work on me. BHVR had a chance to promote 3ks as "good enough", but instead just made a requirement tied to a 4k, so they are actively promoting killers trying to get a 4k.
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Why does it have to be a 4k? Survivors complain so much about killers slugging for the 4k, and here we are with a new mechanic that still encourages killers to slug for the 4k. Can we please make it a 3k? A 3k should be considered as a win for the killer????
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Just once, I would like for a mod to be really excited to share with us news of something that would improve the killer experience. Really? Killers couldn't get an FoV slider, or anything to improve their experience? Are survivors people that should be celebrated and applauded, and killers are just mandatory pesky nuisances that don't ever deserve nice things?
And for the love of the entity, if the survivor icons do move the kill rate, can killers get actual feels good changes like an FoV slider, instead of getting generic uninspired number buffs, that don't actually improve the killer experience even though they are effective in moving the kill rate?
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3307081#Comment_3307081
DH doesnt cause tunneling. The only thing that causes tunneling is the lack of a proper anti-tunnel system.
If the Killer is going to tunnel, it doesnt matter how many perks you throw in the way, they are going to tunnel. If they actively want to take you out of the game, they are going to do everything they can do it. The Survivor being unhooked for could 4 health states while the Survivor unhooking is Exposed, and some players will still actively go for the Survivor being unhooked.
Because tunneling (deprived from "tunnel vision") by definition means to solely focusing a player and until they either quit or you remove them from the game; this means actively ignoring all other players, even if they actively get in your way. "Tunneling" as a term has been distorted, twisted, and heavily misused over the years by players that seek to find means of harassing and attacking others, it's actually kind of annoying.
The new dead hard encourages tunneling, because if you hit someone right after they get unhooked, they get deep wounds, and can't use dead hard. And dead hard is so awful to deal with, that being able to bypass it is huge for many of the M2 killers.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Is that really a buff though?
Yes. Being able to use dead hard while in deep wounds or exhausted means you can combo it with things like Off the record. It also means killers can't just hit people immediately after being unhooked, so they are stuck in deep wounds and can't dead hard.
Perks can get a nerf and a buff applied to them in the same patch.
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1) The game checks if a killer should get a hit.
2) If the killer should get a hit, the game checks if it should forcibly yank the killer's camera.
3) The game checks again if the killer should get a hit.
4) If the survivor isn't in front of the killer's camera, because the game forcibly yanked the killer's camera, then the game denies the hit. This is how aim dressing steals hits from the killer.
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@Mooks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3299568#Comment_3299568
Giving uninspired generic number buffs things to killers, like super small kicking speed buffs, do not improve the killer experience. Yes, they do improve the kill rate, but they don't make the killer's experience itself better.
subjective, for me it made thing more enjoyable. But specific killer adjustments do count as well and there have been plenty.
Survivor icons are a massive buff to the survivor experience. Killers should at least get a decent FoV slider to buff their killer experience. Both ideas could be done, then BHVR could make number adjustments to push the kill rate back to where they want it to be.
nope, not a massive buff at all, only qol improvement and bridging the gap between solo and swf, while 4man swf don’t get any improvements from this at all.
Please don’t victimize the killer side here. They do get constant improvements as well. And soloq experience in the current state is arguably more frustrating than killer experience.
and I never said any of these improvements or bug fixes for killers shouldn’t come.
None of the killer improvements are experience buffs like the survivor icons will be. It feels bad that killers aren't allowed to have a decent FoV slider, because as long as the kill rate is where BHVR wants it to be, then killers can just suffer through mechanics that are purposely designed to make their experience worse.
And that's the actual problem. BHVR created things like garbage FoV, on purpose, to make the killer experience worse, and killers aren't ever allowed to have their purposely bad mechanics fixed. Killer's FoV isn't a mechanic that just happens to be inconvenient. It was purposely designed to be terrible.
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@Mooks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3299446#Comment_3299446
there have been a lot killer improvements already as well as survivor improvements. It’s an asymmetrical game, meaning not everything needs to be done on both sides the same way.
Giving uninspired generic number buffs things to killers, like super small kicking speed buffs, do not improve the killer experience. Yes, they do improve the kill rate, but they don't make the killer's experience itself better.
Survivor icons are a massive buff to the survivor experience. Killers should at least get a decent FoV slider to buff their killer experience. Both ideas could be done, then BHVR could make number adjustments to push the kill rate back to where they want it to be.
While it is true that not everything need to be done on both sides, the problem is that it's never ever ever about the killer experience. We had so many official statements from BHVR that they wanted to look into solo q buffs, and statements about making solo q feel more like a team, and the post where they showed us a possible idea of survivor icons, and now a more concrete example of survivor icons. This entire time, we've heard absolutely zero on killer experience buffs. Zero comments on an FoV slider. Zero comments about fixing the unreliable footstep noises that still get bugged out. Zero comments on fixing the sound occlusion that sometimes deletes noises when you don't have line of sight, even if it's a paper thin unenclosed wall that sound should be able to pass over. Zero comments on fixing the aim dressing system that can steal hits from the killer. Zero comments on possibly lowering the purposely loud chase music, that is purposely loud to make the killer experience worse.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3299381#Comment_3299381
Because the game was balanced around the smaller killer fov.
The game was also balanced around survivors not knowing what their teammates were doing….. but it’s ok for that to be changed.
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@Mooks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3299381#Comment_3299381
What does the one thing even have to do with the other?
FoV slider has been requested for a long time and isn’t deconfirmed to ever come with this survivor change. We are just talking about basic information for soloq survivors that won’t affect 4man swf for example.
also with the Mori changes they have tested some FoV mechanic where they have got Feedback on FoV and how the community wants a slider for accessibility reasons on e more. BHVR is taking their time to evaluate feedback and incorporating it into the game for basically everything (see colorblind mode and this soloq info)
They are related because if survivors are allowed to have experience improvements, that sets a precedent that killers should also be allowed to have experience improvements.
A long time ago we were told about survivor icons as an idea that maybe, might possibly, be maybe considered as an idea….. but we can’t ever have news that BHVR might consider killer experience improvements? We can’t even get a “maybe we might possibly consider an FoV slider”? It always has to be complete silence for killer experience improvements?
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3299340#Comment_3299340
no the killer does not see the icons, they are for the other survivors to view.
Rest assured, we will be monitoring how this affects the game.
I honestly don’t understand why BHVR thinks it’s ok to make changes, like survivor icons, to make the survivor experience feel better….. but killers can’t even get an FoV slider to make their experience feel better?
This would be the perfect opportunity for both sides to get an experience improvement at the same time. Killers could still stay in first person view, and get an FoV slider to bridge the gap between killer FoV and survivor FoV.
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Are killers going to get any additional game information as compensation? Or is this going to be exactly like SWF voice communication, where survivors get extra benefits, and killers get zero compensation and just have to deal with it?
Can killers see the action icons too, so they can know how many survivors are doing generators? Can killers at least get an FoV slider as compensation?
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We're up to 30 threads on the object spawning issues, and it's still not acknowledged as a bug or intended yet! The full list can be found at https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/356069/list-of-object-spawning-problem-forum-threads/p1?new=1, but I'll copy/paste it below to save you a mouse click.
1) https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/355787/increased-clutter-spawning#latest
5) https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/355714/map-object-spawns-are-out-of-control#latest
6) https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/355710/killer-fat-shame-azarovs-resting-place#latest
7) https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/355718/blocked-path-in-new-map-see-screenshot#latest
9) https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/355987/is-garden-of-joy-bugged#latest
10) https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/355881/fatshame-points#latest
12) https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/355832/killers-cant-fit-around-maps#latest
13) https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/355774/are-these-tiles-bugged-or-intended#latest
14) https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/355704/random-map-spawns#latest
16) https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/355623/so-much-detritus-everywhere#latest
17) https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/355555/whats-up-with-garden-of-joy#latest
20) https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/356171/worst-shack-tile-ever#latest
21) https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/356279/map-object-generation-problem#latest
24) https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/356989/map-looping-against-killer#latest
25) https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/356941/fat-shaming-level-rng#latest
27) https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/356902/too-many-trees-rocks-and-vaults#latest
28) https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/356862/did-the-hotfix-fix-the-map-spawns#latest
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I don't understand how the extra object issue is still under investigation. The below link has a list of so many complaints, screenshots, and videos. Is BHVR having difficulty recreating the issue? Are they having difficulty deciding if it's an issue or a new feature? Are they secretly playing with the object generator code and don't want to admit it? Is this considered such a low priority that no one has tested it yet?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/356069/list-of-object-spawning-problem-forum-threads
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I easily bypass it as a survivor. I check for thrilling tremors, and if I see it, then I'll just avoid it. Even though it might sound bad to purposely allow 16 seconds of no generator repair, I think it's more important to confuse the killer into thinking that no one is working on the generator.
The only exceptions are if I think I can complete the generator before the killer reaches it, or if the killer is camping that game and is not likely to travel over to the generator.
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@Zokenay said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3276362#Comment_3276362
I think they already acknowledged it as a bug.
They acknowledged the increased pallets on the new map as a bug. Below, I have a list of 19 object spawning forum threads, and none of them have dev acknowledgement.
Link to object spawning list of forum threads
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@Talvi said:
I honestly hope that the increased spawn is a bug and not intentional design. I noticed more clutter on basically all outdoor realms: Swamp, MacMillan Estate, Coldwind and Autohaven.
I am not entirely sure about Yamaoka Estate.
We have way too many fatshame spots for killers, whilst as survivor I tend to get stuck on some random rubble that should not spawn there.
I'm also hoping the increased spawn is a bug. I hate it when I'm playing survivor and when I'm playing killer. I can understand when BHVR makes a change that's fun for one side but not the other. But this is awful for both sides, so I'm really not sure why this is happening to us.
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@fussy said:
Yes, and there's my post. I was already worried that it wouldn't bother anyone, heh
Thanks! I just added it to the above list.
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I started a compilation list thread on the bug report forum for the object spawning problems https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/356069/list-of-object-spawning-problem-forum-threads/p1?new=1
We're up to 18 forum posts on object spawning problems! And they involve various maps, and various tiles.
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We have 7 bug reports for extra object spawning, but no confirmation if it's a bug or intended.
1) https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/355787/increased-clutter-spawning#latest
5) https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/355714/map-object-spawns-are-out-of-control#latest
6) https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/355710/killer-fat-shame-azarovs-resting-place#latest
7) https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/355718/blocked-path-in-new-map-see-screenshot#latest
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3274879#Comment_3274879
This is actually something we're looking to do! We posted a design we'd like to implement earlier this year to gauge interest, and the reaction seemed pretty positive. It hasn't been forgotten, but it's a lot of work to get implemented, so I can't say when we'll be able to squeeze it into an update.
It's just so frustrating that time and time again we hear that BHVR wants to make the survivor experience feel better, but we really never hear anything about making the killer experience feel better. Generic number buffs, like faster pallet kicking, doesn't make the killer experience feel better, even if it does result in a higher kill rate.
For example, why can't we give killers an FoV slider, and survivors can get generic number buffs for compensation?
Why do we never hear BHVR give ideas on how they might want to make the killer experience feel better? Are killers supposed to forever have bad FoV, difficult to hear audio, and an aim dressing mechanic that can steal hits from the killer? Why can't we fix these things, and buff survivors as compensation? If the solo q survivor experience is going to evolve to feel better, then can the killer experience evolve to feel better too?
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3274883#Comment_3274883
First of all, most people don't follow updates. Not just in DBD but also in other games. That's why last time the released perk usage Self-care was in the top 20 although admittedly DH had gone down, but I'd argue it's easier to see the difference between old DH and new DH than it is to see current Self-care and Self-care before the last nerf.
Out of all the exhaustion perks DH is the most rewarding to get right no doubt. The thing is that Otz's stats don't seem to have self-care on, so what playerbase does it represent even? And even if DH is first is it still as effective as it once was. Again I'll mention Self-care, despite it being prominent many people here at least can recognize how bad it is, but the rest of the playerbase doesn't seem to have caught up yet. So we'd need more info for DH if it is as effective as it once was and if it's the exhaustion that actually leads to more escapes or if it's just an annoying perk for the killer to deal with (like say boil over, although boil over isn't as common).
Also 6 or 7 of those perks come with a free character or are free for everyone. That also has to account for something.
We don't need additional info. Survivors aren't using it for nostalgia. They're using it because there are still many scenarios where the killer can't avoid it, or more importantly, situations where trying to avoid it is worse than allowing the survivor to get a successful dead hard parry.
DH is still overused, and should be evaluated again for a nerf. Any perk that tells killers "just don't lunge" and "just don't use certain killer powers" needs to get nerfed into orbit.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3274831#Comment_3274831
Good ping punishes killers even when survivors don't have DH.
But if you wanna be less biased just say, killers with bad ping are rewarded more often. And there are many people who want that fixed.
And why should having good ping not be rewarding in general? In every other PVP game lag is punishing. In Lol, if you have good ping you can react to Malphite ult with flash, but if you have high ping you can't.
DBD is like the only game that rewards bad ping. I cannot believe people dislike good ping now.
But what do i expect from players who play a game who are alright with solo having no ways of communication and survivors are OP (but only when in SWF).
Having good mechanics should be a rewarding experience for both survivors and killers. Why should it be a non-factor for survivors? We accept Nurse exactly because she requires some sort of mechanic. We can accept DH as well. Good survivors should be able to win.
If you want the game to revolve around gens and co-operation then you either have to be ok with the game implementing more communication for solo survivor or SWF. Pick your poison.
We were told there was going to be a meta shakeup, and the most popular survivor perk in my games is still the most popular survivor perk in my games. Going from #1 to #1 isn't much of a shakeup.
We were told we could bait DH, but I can't do that when both players have good ping, and when I'm using a lunge or certain killer powers.
I just want what the devs promised us.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3274685#Comment_3274685
The perk is predictive now, it's not reactive. Devs have said so theselves and users repeat that when users who use DH complain about the latency and want the timing to be more forgiving.
DH punishes killers for having a good ping, which is the exact opposite of what server validation should be doing. It might need to be predictive on lunges if a player has bad ping, but if both players have good ping, then survivors can absolutely use it reactively sometimes.
Some killer powers have a loud audio cue, that dead hard can be used reactively, and some survivors are still using it reactively to lunges. The parry window is this perk is so easy compared to many other PvP games. Anyone that can parry in other games, can easily reactively DH in this game.
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Dead Hard was less awful when it was 0.5 seconds of parry frames, followed by another 0.5 seconds on animation lock. When people tried to dead hard to a pallet with that version, it gave killers a reasonable chance to hit the survivor before they can drop the pallet. The way the perk is now, because of server validation and latency, trying to hit a survivor between dead hard and the pallet drop is not reasonable.
Also, we were promised by the devs that we could "bait accordingly" to the perk, but that hasn't happened yet. How do I bait accordingly if I want to lunge attack? How do I bait accordingly if I want to use certain killer powers, like Pyramid Head's Punishment M2, or Huntress hatchets at a distance, when the survivor can dead hard on reaction to those things? "Bait accordingly" only works if the survivor needs to use the perk predictively. For example, if the perk was 0.5 seconds of animation lock, followed by 0.5 seconds of parry frames.
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@Bardon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3273629#Comment_3273629
Not to mention it's a nightmare as Billy.
Yeah, There are a few other killers where the extra stuff just feels really bad. It's a buff for M1 killers though, since it doesn't mess up their power, and they get the benefit of getting free hits on survivors that get stuck on the extra stuff.
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The object spawning rules are out of control on many of the maps. I don’t see this mentioned on the patch notes, and I haven’t seen anyone confirm if it’s a bug yet. It’s frustrating when outdoor maps are super filled with clutter everywhere, especially when it causes players to get stuck.
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@Coordi said:
Yes, we can confirm there is a bugged tile that's spawning too many pallets.
Has anyone confirmed if the object spawning on the other maps are bugged? Starting this update, there are so many extra random objects, like trees and giant rocks. It’s making the outdoor maps look very cluttered, and survivors are sometimes getting stuck on these extra objects.
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@Flopiyutiop said:
Agree, there is also more and more "fat shame" spot and stuff that spawn too close from maze tiles making them stronger.
Yeah. I’ve seen multiple survivors that are just getting stuck on the extra objects, and I’m sure they weren’t happy about it, since it can be a free hit for the killer.
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@dspaceman20 said:
Dead hard is fine and circle of healing is mostly fine. Like others have said one thing being op doesn't mean other things have to be op. Dead Hard and circle of healing have been dealt with already.
There is no good argument to keep eruption as is
Dead Hard hasn’t really been dealt with though. The counterplay is “just don’t lunge” and “just don’t use certain killer powers”, and that still feels super awful and unfair. CoH got nerfed more than once, and Dead Hard needs to be reevaluated to see if it needs to be nerfed again.
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@Peanits said:
I'm gonna stop ya' right there. Just because someone thinks one thing is a problem doesn't mean they think everything else is fine. You can find both things to be too strong at the same time, but trying to discount one thing because of another (completely unrelated) thing doesn't accomplish anything. Saying that thing A is strong doesn't mean that thing B isn't also strong.
Unless someone is explicitly telling you that Eruption is OP but Dead Hard and Circle of Healing are fine, you're bringing up oranges in a conversation about apples.
I think a lot of people are frustrated because there have been non stop arguments about eruption on these forums for a while, and we still have zero feedback from BHVR about how they feel about the perk.
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@Zeidoktor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3271120#Comment_3271120
Fair enough on the relevance. CoH has already been nerfed multiple times and nerfing it without affecting the other Boon totms which, by and large, don't have this issue is a trick into itself.
That makes me think, of the two, Eruption is the bigger and/or more easily solved issue, since it's a single perk, unconnected to any others, and you have the option to either nerf its incapacitare effect or offer some sort of counterplay response to possibly dodge it entirely.
My feeling is there should be, if not a hard counter (like Shattered Hope) them some option for move/countermove, like Dead Hard currently has to bring it back to your example. Pre-rework they're was Jack-all you could do against a Dead Hard for Distance. Now if the Survivor manages to pull off a Dead Hard against a hit (or pulls a situation that provokes you into hitting them) then you've got move (Killer attack) and Countermove (Dead Hard) or Move (Survivor tried to trick you into hitting Dead Hard) Countermove (you don't take the bait and they waste DH) and, either way, once you know DH is there you can respond accordingly (bait it out, hit anyway, etc)
Boons, meanwhile, have the option to snuff the Boon or not and/or hunt the boon down. If you're legitimately running into teams with 3 or more frequently, you can toss the harder counters into your build.
No. That’s not how DH works at all. We are told the counterplay to DH is “just don’t lunge” and “just don’t use certain killer powers”, and that feels terrible. There isn’t an interactive “fun for both sides” counterplay for DH. Some killers are supposed to just stop using their power, and just walk walk walk until they are in point blank range, and that feels terrible.
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@Zeidoktor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3271073#Comment_3271073
I'm assuming this is meant as a joke, since Dead Hard isn't relevant to the discussion at hand and the Dab provides exactly that window anyway, but my suggestion is serious.
After all, it's not hard to know when a teammate goes down. Even if you don't hear the scream or see the aura, you'll see the change in HUD. It also provides a means for soloQ to respond to the perk while, at worst, having no impact on SWFs' ability to do so
It’s not a joke. Eruption and DH are the exact same situation, where the other side doesn’t have a reliable personal way to bypass it. The DH visual q happens 0.0 seconds before the parry window is active, which means the killer doesn’t have a reliable way of knowing when it’s safe to attack if DH hasn’t been used yet, and doesn’t have a reliable way of responding to the visual q of DH, if the visual q happens after they make an attack.
And the suggested nerf to eruption wasn’t relevant to the discussion either. The point of this forum thread was to show a double standard between CoH and Eruption. Suggesting nerfs to Eruption are completely irrelevant.
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@Zeidoktor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3270336#Comment_3270336
That's why I've favored there being a similar window for Eruption. A delay between the moment the Survivor is downed and the gen exploding. Enough to allow an alert Survivor to let go, but not do long that everyone can do so with ease. Maybe 0.5-1 sec.
There should be a similar window for Dead Hard. Enough to allow an alert Killer to know when it’s safe to attack. Maybe 0.5-1 sec.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
As you probably allready know, when someone is trying to flashlight save in front of you, sometimes what happends is that you get blinded even tho you quickly for the last half a second turn your head. Then it feels "unfair" when on your screen you technicaly avoid the last second but you still got blinded even tho your camera might be in totaly different spot.
Anyway, with that new buff what I expect to happen is that someone will run towards you, blinds you while you not even finish your animation fully and then you get stunned. It will feel pretty awfull and unfair.
But it won’t look different on the killer side, beyond the fact that the flashlight save might look a bit early, because the new buffer is happening before the current flashlight window, not after the flashlight window. And because the buffer is only happening before the current flashlight window, it won’t allow survivors to get flashlight saves in new situations beyond what they currently can do.
Yes, this is an over buff to flashlights, and it’s overall lowering the skill floor of flashlights, but it’s not going to make the SWF bully squads stronger since they can already reliably time flashlights.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3270555#Comment_3270555
So if I'm chasing an injured survivor and I know that if I lunge, I'll hit them but I also don't underestimate them and I instead wait
They DH in my face and then they go down or they DH then are forced into a medium vault, which is a grab
So no, I'm not a liar. It's basic game sense lol
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3270552#Comment_3270552
By all means, you can try to use your power/lunge at someone who has DH
But they might time it right and get away with it
Force it out of them or hit them while they're animation locked
Forcing it out of them isn't counterplay. The survivor got to tank a hit with DH, and got their speed boost.
And waiting for a survivor to be animation locked often isn't an option either.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3270531#Comment_3270531
Sound argument, good one. Thanks for your time
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3270532#Comment_3270532
I mean they are worth comparing but in my personal POV DH has more counterplay because it can be waited/baited out. Once you see the 0,5s animation, that's it - you get the hit 100%. Not to mention if you're, let's say tunnelling someone who's deep wounded; their perk does nothing. It has things that stop it working
Waiting out an eruption is possible, but at least when you're waiting out someone's DH you're still pressuring them, aka furthering your objective. With survivor you have to basically be useless or be productive and then useless bc of incap lol.
You just told me the counterplay is "just don't lunge" and "just don't use certain killer powers". That's exactly the point. It's still miserable for killers.
You're basically telling many killers they should just stop using their power, and just keep walking and walking until they are in point blank range, then tap M1. And if the killer's power is important to the killer, well too bad for them.
It's Pyramid Head's fault for daring to use his power, because it has such a telegraphed sound cue, that survivors can hit dead hard after they hear the sound cue. It's Huntresses fault for daring to use her power outside of close range, because survivors can hit DH after they hear the sound cue. They should have just stopped using their power and just walked up to the survivor instead. And there are many other killers that have the same situation, where they get punished for daring to use their power. It's not ok. It's miserable. But if we're told "it's fine" then Eruption is fine too, by the same standard, that perks aren't required to have fair counterplay.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3270501#Comment_3270501
Yeah that's my point
It wasn't fun to go against, even non-swfs. Stats wise it was okay but stats don't mean everything
The same is true of eruption.
No. That wasn't the point. It was only broken in SWFs because it was wall hacks for the whole team. It was kind of trash in solo q against most killers, because it encouraged the killer to tunnel that survivor, and if a solo q survivor wanted to personally avoid the killer, there were better perks for that.
The only reason why it was miserable to see OoO on a solo q survivor, was if the killer didn't know it was a solo q survivor, and assumed that survivor might be in a SWF.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3270517#Comment_3270517
Give us a visual Q 0.5s before eruption happens then I will 100% agree with you
Give us a visual Q 0.5s before dead hard happens, so killers can have "fair counterplay"
@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3270503#Comment_3270503
Hey let me put it this way
if a gen had a visual que that eruption was about to happen (Like DH has a visual que), I would 100% be okay with it.
I really hope you're not defending eruption purely because DH is a perk that you dislike. I'm not its biggest fan either but it doesn't frustrate me anywhere close to the same amount as eruption does
DH doesn't have a visual Q before it happens. Killers can make an attack when their screen doesn't show a dead hard, and by the time the attack connects, the survivor could have blocked it with a dead hard. If 0.5s visual Qs are fair counterplay, then add it to dead hard. I'm bringing up dead hard because they should be held to the same standard. If dead hard is fine even though it's still super miserable for the killers, and still constantly showing up almost every game, then eruption is fine too.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3270494#Comment_3270494
pre-emptively DHing for distance is what I'm referring to
It's not a thing anymore.
Current DH still has lose/lose situations, and we're still told the counterplay is "just don't lunge" and "just don't use certain killer powers". Why should I be punished for using a lunge or certain killer powers? How is that fair or fun?