Coffeecrashing
Coffeecrashing
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Trickster got hard nerfed from the new Dead Hard, way more than any other killer. It just feels so ultra mega bad, when Trickster goes through all the effort of dancing around to fill up the laceration meter, and then someone presses E to get a speed burst, and it completely resets his laceration meter. Previous DH was so much better, where the knives would just phase through the survivor, and their laceration meter would stay the same.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3264335#Comment_3264335
Someone already made this point and I already addressed it. A lot of the stuff I put does not hinder someone trying to learn Nurse, I made sure to consider all skill levels when picking which ideas to put.
You didn’t read my post. Most Nurse players aren’t “still learning” to play Nurse, and they aren’t overperforming either.
It’s not one or the other. People don’t magically switch from “still learning” to “curb stomping everyone”
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You assume that Nurse players are either overperforming, or they're still learning Nurse.
The reality is most Nurses aren't overperforming, and they aren't "still learning" how to play her. Nurse has an extremely high skill cap, and most people aren’t reaching it. This is why the stats show her as not overperforming in the all MMR graph, and not overperforming in the top 5% MMR graph.
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@Jackal7879 said:
I read almost every post here and basically it sums up in 2 different opinions
1) This perk is fine and has counter play just have a 3-4 man and call when you’re about to go down or survivors have this and that perks
2)This perk is shouldn’t exist or needs a rework/nerf
why i hate this perk when I see this perk on let’s just say a blight I know this game is gonna be long (context a blight and other killers with 4 gen perk including eruption held a 3 gen and those games went for roughly 30-45 minutes can go longer with Boon:COH out of 3-gen).
My thoughts on opinion 1 most of the time I soloq and I don’t wanna bring hyper focus stake out prove thy self with overzealous with powerful tool box with built to last and street wise every game for a perk a killer my might bring
my thoughts on opinion 2 I just feel that this perks needs it number tuned down a little like a shorter incapacitated duration and buff the regression to compensate
3) the perk is purposely designed to be a surprise
People realize this, right? You all realize this perk was designed to be a surprise, right? Do people really think BHVR expects everyone to be in a SWF? Do people really think BHVR overlooked this entire perk, and didn’t realize how it would function in solo q?
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If you want this thread to be useful, you might want to ask for NEW suggestions, that haven't been mentioned on these forums before. Some people are tired of the Nurse threads because they never suggest anything new. Will this thread be any different, or will it just be the same tired suggestions again?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3263000#Comment_3263000
Just because you can't deal with DH doesn't make it OP.
You took a discussion about Eruption being overtuned (not OP) and instead said, "well, dh is too strong :( so we can't change eruption"
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/GR4I7IE4ZNDR/screenshot-20221112-224023-samsung-internet.jpg
It was a response to the comment "Imagine there was a survivor perk that after every gen was completed you couldn't M1 for 25ish seconds." I noticed you didn't scream whataboutism for that comment. Why not? That wasn't whataboutism?
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People are allowed to suggest that double standards exist. You can't just claim that all double standards are invalid arguments.
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@Seanzu said:
Imagine there was a survivor perk that after every gen was completed you couldn't M1 for 25ish seconds.
Awful and basically uncounterable unless you're a full SWF, which every killer and their dog complains about.
Imagine if there was a survivor perk that punished killers for using their lunge attack, or some of their killer powers, on injured survivors. Oh wait, it's called dead hard, and I'm still constantly dealing with it, and I'm still being punished for using lunges or certain killer powers.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3262308#Comment_3262308
It doesnt just stop those 3
It stops literally EVERYTHING else other than unhooking and opening the exit gate. Theres a reason why Incapacitated is only available to powers with the sole exception of Eruption, and thats because its a really strong effect. Theres a reason why Pain Res and Eruption is a banned combo in tourneys and thats because those 2 on a high mobility killer is just overkill
Tournaments are often so far removed from normal DBD play, that they aren't a good argument for game balance. Some of them even have this completely goofy hook point system, that doesn't represent DBD at all.
Besides, some tournaments also ban survivors from stacking certain perks. If we really wanted to emulate tournament rules, can we enforce those rules too?
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@ForThePeepo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3262316#Comment_3262316
Thats what I am saying. Lets make a shitload of new Survivor Perks:
- Slowing Down or Regressing Hook Progression
- Blocking Certain Hooks for x time
- Preventing the Killer from using his ability for x time
Sounds like healthy game design right guys?!
- Slowing Down or Regressing Hook Progression = camaraderie and reassurance
- Blocking Certain Hooks for x time = Saboteur and Breakdown
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@Omans said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3262305#Comment_3262305
"Eruption is healthy for the game"
Eruption is very likely the thing most damaging to game health right now.
Sorry you don't see that. Maybe play some survivor and you'll realize how badly this perk is damaging game health.
I'm still constantly dealing with dead hard, which still punishes me for daring to use a killer lunge, or daring to use many of the killer powers. Dead hard is still the most damaging to game health right now.
I'm not supposed to lunge or use many of my killer powers when the survivor is injured? How is that fair at all?
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@Shroompy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3262240#Comment_3262240
or, the healthier option
get rid of the incapacitated effect because its just stupid not being able to do literally anything other than run around for 25 seconds
People would just stay injured until eruption goes off, and heal with the generator is blocked. Eruption needs to block repairing and healing. It would be fine if eruption allowed survivors to still interact with totems though.
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@Omans said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3262281#Comment_3262281
Except it is decimating solos and carrying games hard for the killers who use it. Leaving Eruption in the state it is in is not an option.
I don't care what some people say about SWF being able to counter it. I have been playing this game for years, and it is easily in the top 10, maybe top 5 of most broken perks that have been released.
"nerfing swf" by nerfing a single perk is not a good idea. With your suggestion killers will continue to get wins carried by an overtuned perk. Not good.
Eruption is healthy for the game, because it encourages killers to chase after survivors that immediately run away from all the unrepaired generators. Without eruption, killers are often encouraged to just let these survivors run away, and excessively defend their generators until a survivor messes up and is caught out of position.
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@Omans said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3262240#Comment_3262240
It doesn't matter how many times you comment on the perk Eruption. Your view on the perk is just plain wrong.
Eruption is as unhealthy for the game as Undying was when it could take up to 5 totem cleanses to get both it and Ruin.
And yet you are suggesting making Eruption even stronger.
It is so far from what needs to be talked about in regards to this perk.
What you are suggesting is like saying Nurse should be given 4.4 or 4.6 movement speed with no nerfs - buffing an already OP thing to combat its one 'weakness'. You aren't fooling anyone.
This change wouldn’t affect solos, and would fix the complaints that SWFs aren’t affected as much by the perk. It would bridge the gap between solos and SWFs in a healthy way, which is by bringing down the power SWFs get with voice communications.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3262210#Comment_3262210
Really isnt, as it doesn't stop them from just doing gens but literally everything else. A Survivor has to literally run around and do nothing for 25 seconds, they cant heal, cant cleanse totems, cant even interact with certain things related to killer powers like Pigs boxes or Supply Cases.
Worst of all is it barely affects SWF as a person can simply call out when theyre about to get downed, and everyone on a gen can let go. It is possibly one of the most badly designed perks in the game, even more so than old Ruin. Because no matter how experienced you are, you can't know when some ones about to get downed unless you have line of sight of both the killer and survivor, or the killer has a map wide audio notification that theyre about to hit some one (Like Deathslinger or Pyramid Head)
Theres a reason why Incapacitated is unique to killer powers (only exception of course is Eruption) and thats because its a REALLY strong effect, and it activating with just kicking a gen is just plain dumb
If the worst part is it affecting SWFs less, then the solution is to give the affected generators an AoE incapacitate, or to change the perk to incapacitate anyone that had repaired an affected generator in the last X seconds.
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@Grigerbest said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3261267#Comment_3261267
They refer to "HUG TECH" as a bug exploit! So if you see the "BUG EXPLOIT" is bannable, than hug tech too!
People just don't report it simply because of a mentality of: - "Oh it's so hard to do, you actually need a skill for doing so", but still!
It's a Bug use!
Again, they call it a bug, and they don't use the word exploit. This conversation isn't going anywhere. I'm done with this.
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@Grigerbest said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3261250#Comment_3261250
Bug exploits refer to attacks in the form of programs, blocks of data or sets of commands that take advantage of system vulnerabilities in order to gain profit or to expose any particular system.
From this concept I can clearly tell, that if you know that "Hug tech" is a bug and you intensionaly keep using that against survivors to take an advantage in chases - you're bug exploiting.
Bug exploiting is banable.
Fin
The official game rules has a list of bannable exploits, and Hug Tech isn't on it.
FIN
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@Grigerbest said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3261236#Comment_3261236
You can consider "Intensional bug use" as an Exploit. If I see a Blight intensionally doing that against me, I can report it.
Hug Tech isn't bannable. You can report it, but that won't do anything. If Hug Tech was an exploit, then a dev would have called it an exploit instead of a bug.
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@Grigerbest said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3261199#Comment_3261199
What? Mandy said that the "Hug tech" is a bug exploit.
She said it was a bug. That isn't the same thing as an exploit. Bugs aren't bannable and exploits are bannable. That is how the official game rules work.
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@HugTheHag said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3261174#Comment_3261174
Has it officially been acknowledged as an exploit though ? I've never heard of it being frowned upon by the devs before, but I could be wrong.
No. Hug tech was never officially acknowledged as an exploit either.
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@HarlockTaliesin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3260255#Comment_3260255
I was thinking each player would select what role they're playing, or specifically what they're good/bad at. This would appear as a menu in any survivor character screen. Could be universal or per survivor, depending on what works best or what most people prefer. UI layout and whatnot would be whatever fits the theme and functionality of the existing UI.
If it works out to code in a Looking for Group/Looking for Player option, you could select what you/your group needs.
1) How would we stop people from lying? Would lone wolf survivors, or other survivors that know their strategy hurts their team, lie on their role so people won't lobby dodge them as much?
2) What happens if some roles are way more desirable than others? I would always want three other survivors that are good at chases, and that would always be preferable over people that are good at hiding. Most people with a stealth build aren't good at chases, and they are a risk to their team if the killer does find them.
3) What happens if some of the roles are a bit useless? Unless someone brings a full hyperfocus build to a game, then the "I'm good at repairing" role is a bit useless. We all can repair generators, and "I'm good at repairing" is usually just another way of saying "I'm terrible at chases with the killer, and will likely lose chases very quickly"
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@Akumakaji said:
The thing with spinning (or 360ing/360 juke) is this: the survivors hit box is always the same, be they standing or running, but when they run their model leans forward.
This hit box is basically shape like an egg their feet, butt and ankles always at inside this hit egg, while the head, torso and arms flail widely. So to counter this, ideally you take a step back, aim at their buttocks and just gently tap the strike button. No lunging, since that's perfectly telegraphed and might be evaded.
Killer lunges should be a useable tool. If the counterplay to 360s is "just don't lunge", then killer lunges are terrible and need to be made more reliable.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3260431#Comment_3260431
The only reason basekit UB is going to be a thing is because of the mori change. It has zero to do with slugging.
It's a massive nerf to slugging. It's punishing killers even when they're forced to slug. The biggest takeaway from the whole idea is that places killers in lose/lose situations when they can't get a survivor to a hook, and that BHVR put absolutely zero effort into helping killers so they didn't have to slug as much.
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@Rovend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3260570#Comment_3260570
Of course i have no understanding of game development and balancing.
and true, i dont know your perspective in this.
But as a gamer, wherever i play a normal dbd game, and get into one of these stalemates i dont get the feeling that this should be the normal gameplay. To be stuck in a situation where i must wait for my teammate to bleed and die so i can get a chance to escape.
And i cant understand even less why killers think that in these situation they should add more mechanics to further punish the survivors that are already losing.
You're correct that the stalemates shouldn't be occurring as much. But the solution is force the stalemate to end in the favor of the killer, because the survivors gave up trying to win, and the survivors are breaking the rules of the game.
Giving survivors AFK crows means they would not longer be stuck in the stalemate. In these situations, at least one of the survivors was going to die anyway, and this just speeds up the process.
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@Rovend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3260502#Comment_3260502
I say the solution would be to make these stalemates not so easy achievable by the killer or give some reason to the remaining survivors to keep repairing that is not putting a gun in their head saying "repair and die, or you will be punished and die"
No. This is a PvP game, and if the survivors are losing so badly that they give up on the game, then they should lose the game.
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@Rovend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3260491#Comment_3260491
And that will probably lead you to DC, Suicides on hook and in general survs giving up.
Consider this, You have this unfun, unhealthy, not difficult to reach in current meta, stalemate and your solution is to punish the two survs that are losing even more by forcing them to take actions that will undoubtely kill them.
And if they DC, you will ask for harder bans.
And if they suicide on hook, you will ask for harder restriction on unhook attempts.
And if they give up because they cannot win, you will report them for unsportmanship.
You do understand what this will cause right?
Yes. If the survivors give up on repairing generators because they don’t think they can win the game, then they’ve basically given up on the game, and we shouldn’t reward people that give up.
AFK crows spawning on both people is fair, because it progresses the game, and it’s way less harsh than banning players.
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@Rovend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3260431#Comment_3260431
The basekit UB is still a concept, i will not take it into an argument until it actually reaches live server. It will probably be nerfed to oblivion.
Yes, the rules says surv must repair, but the game produces a state where to repair means you will die 99.99%. And this state is not produced entirely because of the killer's skill as it is done
the overnerf of the hatch
The up of gen times
the rise of slowdown/regressing meta
All 3 combined that makes you imposible to repair your way out of this state.
Yet, most killers expect and demand that survs repair knowingly they will die.
It’s still the rules of the game, and there should be a penalty if the rules are broken.
AFK crows would be a good solution. Instead of a prisoner’s dilemma where both survivors feel like they need to hide indefinitely, if both survivors are refusing to repair generators then the game can hit them with special AFK crows at the same time, and it can be up to chance for which survivor the killer finds first.
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@Rovend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3260354#Comment_3260354
It's realisticaly extremely hard for 2 survs to repair 2/3 gens on their own and not get killed.
Yet you ask for them to do that extremely hard action that will get them killed either way or be punished more.
Survivors seemed perfectly fine when BHVR suggested a basekit unbreakable mechanic, that would punish killers whenever killers were forced to slug. And if it’s ok to punish players instead of giving them a better solution, then it should apply to survivors as well.
Besides, I’m asking survivors to follow the rules of the game, and it’s against the rules for survivors to just hide indefinitely.
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@Rovend said:
The "2 survs/too many gens" stalemate is something that bhvr needs to address.
You shouldnt ban the 2 survs that are hiding in a +3gens remaining situation when they clearly cannot repair their way out. It's the same as throwing yourself to the killer.
I will always say that this is a problem created by bhvr when they overnerfed the hatch not realising that this would produce thousand of stalemates by they removed the chance to repair for hatch.
BHVR should give AFK crows to the survivors, if too much time goes by without any of them making a solid effort to repair generators, and no one has been in the hooked or in the dying state for a while, and no one has gotten in a chase for a while.
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You should be mad at the survivor that ragequit, because the ruined game is their fault.
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@HarlockTaliesin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3259580#Comment_3259580
If I have a killer roll up on me in 30-40 seconds or less, before I've had a chance to do much of anything meaningful that would make staying in the trial worthwhile, I'm definitely out.
But the OP presents an interesting idea. Adding lobby/in-game icons (or even selectable matchmaking options) that would help notify other survivors of your strengths and weaknesses right away, so others know if they can support the needed roll for the group (or the game can match solos up better).
For example, I suck at looping on survivor. Easily half of the time or more a pallet won't fire for me no matter what I do. However, I can stealth around and ninja both gens and people off of hooks really well, have no difficulty locating/taking out totems, and am down to heal someone anytime. If I can be matched up with someone who's strengths are looping and getting/keeping a killer's attention, it's perfect and I'll stick it out the full trial even if it goes bad in the end.
Coding in player-selectable icons shouldn't be very difficult at all. Taking it a step further and using these selections to code in secondary matchmaking criteria I wouldn't see as being all that more difficult since they have the base structure for it already with MMR. Player type (Survivor/Killer) > MMR > strengths/weaknesses selections.
They could set it up the same as MMR to a limited spectrum, so if there's not an exact match it can grab the nearest one. Many online multiplayer games have done this since the inception of online gaming, and it's standard issue for MMO matchmaking.
How would the player selectable icons work? Would we able able to choose which types of people we want on our team?
Because if I could choose, I would always want 3 other people that were good at looping and chases with the killer.
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@DeathByGiggles said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/4OLGKWWIQ7GG/devupdate.jpg
It’s time for another Developer Update, a series of posts detailing what we’re working on and what you can expect in the future. A quick head’s up before we get started, our focus for this post is to explain what is currently being worked on and made available in the upcoming Mid Chapter. That said, the second half of this post is going to be very technical. You have been warned.
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The Trickster
Now that it has been a few months since the launch of the All-Kill Chapter, it is time for The Trickster’s post-launch review. This is something we do for all new Killers once they’ve had a few months to settle into the game. Reviewing the data, The Trickster tends to fall on the lower end of the roster (even among the top few percent of Trickster players), so we feel comfortable making some improvements to him to bring him up a few spots.
We’ve made several changes to laceration to make it a more tense back-and-forth battle. For starters:
- The number of knives required to damage a Survivor has been reduced to 6 (down from 8)
- The delay before laceration decay starts has been reduced to 10 seconds (down from 20 seconds)
- The rate of decay for laceration has been increased to 0.3/s while running and 0.4/s all other times (up from 0.235/s and 0.175/s respectively)
Together, these changes should make chases quicker and more interesting: The Trickster will be able to down Survivors much faster, but a good Survivor may be able to break line of sight for long enough to start decaying their laceration meter.
Additionally, we’ve reduced the amount of laceration lost for hitting a Survivor with a basic attack from 4 to 3. (We’ve all accidentally run into a Survivor while throwing knives before. Swing away.)
Next, we looked at Main Event. Main Event would activate fairly frequently, but the long activation time often meant that the Survivor could break line of sight before you had a chance to start throwing knives again, making it difficult to use at times. With that in mind, we’ve made the following changes:
- Main Event activation time has been shortened to 0.5 seconds (down from 1.5 seconds)
- The number of knives required to activate Main Event has been increased to 30
- Increased the amount of time you can hold Main Event to 30 seconds (up from 10 seconds)
With these changes, we aim to make Main Event less frequent, but more meaningful when it does activate. By increasing the time it can be held before it must be activated, you’ll have more freedom to choose when to activate it and be able to use it more effectively when you do thanks to the lowered activation time.
Last, but certainly not least, it could sometimes be difficult to tell when your Blades were hitting a Survivor. To improve the feedback, we have added hit indicators that appear where the Survivor was hit.
With base changes out of the way, we also needed to look into a few of his add-ons. Most add-ons are behaving as expected, but there are a few outliers that fall significantly above or below the rest that we needed to adjust.
Melodious Murder
With the number of knives required to injure reduced to 6, leaving this add-on as is would be a little too much. With that in mind, we’ve reworked this add-on completely to give increased reload speed at lockers instead.
Fizz-Spin Soda
Previously: Granted the effects of having already thrown 3 knives.
This one is a slight tweak; the bonus has been decreased to the effect of 2 knives. The initial rate bonus granted before was a little too high which made it an obvious choice every time.
Iridescent Photocard
Now, when a Survivor is two or fewer Blade hits away from the maximum, they will be Exposed. This will give you a larger window to work with.
Death Throes Compilation
This is another one that needed to change due to the lower laceration meter to prevent things from getting out of hand. Now, Death Throes Compilation will replenish The Trickster’s knives when Main Event ends.
Lucky Blade & Waiting for You Watch
These add-ons didn’t see much use before, so they’ve been reworked with a completely new effect. Hitting a Survivor with a Blade during Main Event will extend Main Event’s duration.
Last but certainly not least, we reviewed The Trickster’s perks and made changes to both No Way Out and Hex: Crowd Control.
No Way Out
This perk can do quite a bit, but it can also be very inconsistent. If you’re missing a token or two, or if the Survivors are preoccupied when the gates are first powered, it’s possible they’ll completely miss the effect. With that in mind, we have:
- Increased the base time of the perk to 12 seconds
- Increased the bonus time for each token to 6/9/12 seconds
- The perk only activates whenever a Survivor interacts with an exit gate for the first time, and you’ll receive a loud noise notification when they do
These changes increase the potential maximum time from 46 seconds to 60 seconds, and ensures that it will have a noticeable effect.
Hex: Crowd Control
A simple adjustment, but one that should have a big impact:
- Increased the time a window stays blocked from 10/12/14 seconds to 14/17/20 seconds
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Survivor Visual Update
If you’ve had your eye on social media for a while (or the many places they were reposted), you may have seen some early previews for Survivor model updates. These visual updates are part of The Realm Beyond, our ongoing effort to improve the visuals of the game.
Some of you are dying to know when you’ll see these updated models in-game. You won’t need to wait much longer, as the updated models will appear in the Mid-Chapter Update.
With that said, we’ve also seen some people ask, “Why?” When the game first launched, a lot of things (characters included) featured a completely different art style. (You can still see some traces of this in the original Survivors. Look closely at Dwight’s shirt and you’ll notice a watercolor effect that isn’t used anymore.) As time went on, we moved towards a more realistic style, with more detailed textures and refined models. This left some of the more recent Survivors looking great, while others started to feel a little dated.
Our goal with these changes is not to change the characters significantly, but rather to bring them up to date. We’ve been playing with these Survivors for years, and some of us have grown very attached to them (some of you a little too much, we’ve seen the THAT art you’ve made). This is part of the reason why we’ve been sharing previews for so long: We’ve been combing through your feedback to make sure that the updated versions of each Survivor are as similar as possible to ones you know and love. If you’ve been losing sleep over David King’s smaller brow, you can rest easy, we’ve gone back and made some adjustments.
With that said, here’s a quick taste of what you can expect in case you’ve missed the many teasers. Please keep in mind that these previews do not include animations, so expressions like Ace’s trademark smirk won’t appear here. (But don’t worry, he’s still got it.)
(Note: These are work in progress images and some changes may have been made since.)
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/QKIDVPFW41PR/meg.jpg
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Updated Tutorials
Your first steps into the fog can be scary and unforgiving, so we’ve been working on improvements to the new player experience across the board.
In this upcoming Mid-Chapter, you’ll find a pair of brand-new tutorials (one for Killer, one for Survivor). We’ve learned a lot about what you want in a tutorial, so we now cover more than the old ones. Each tutorial also takes place in a single continuous level (rather than a series of mini levels cut together). This way, everything flows together like a real match, just more controlled so things don’t get out of hand.
As a head’s up, we have been seeing reports of preferences being reset (such as perks and cosmetics) for Dwight and Trapper after playing the tutorial. This bug does not revert any progress, but is something the team is aware of and will be resolved in the near future!
Now, a tutorial is great and all, but it doesn’t quite compare to hands on experience. Before you jump into an online match, you can now practice in offline bot matches. This will let you try out everything you’ve learned in a real-world scenario without the stress of other people watching. Bot matches are already available on the live version of the game (click the Getting Started button on the main menu to check them out).
Finally, we’ve added beginner tooltips to the menus. The game has grown a lot over the years, so there can be a lot to take in if you’re just starting out. Hovering over most buttons will let you know what they do and help you find your way around. If you’re already a seasoned veteran and find the idea of a tooltip describing something insulting, don’t worry, you can turn these off in the settings.
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HUD Improvements
One of the most common requests we received following our previous changes was the ability to customize the HUD. While full customization is still just a twinkle in a designer’s eye, we have added the ability to toggle on and off some non-crucial parts of the HUD. In the settings menu, you’ll find new options to toggle:
- Killer hook counter
- Score events
- Player names (in-match)
Each can be toggled independently in case you want one but not the rest.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/A0KVQOIL8H8U/patchnotesdivider.png
Game Health: Pallet Hits
In this Mid-Chapter, we aimed to address some of most frequent and annoying issues you can run into while playing. One of the things topping that list is getting hit through a pallet well after you’ve dropped it. Before we get into the solution, we’ll run through why this happens in the first place.
The first thing to note is latency (the time it takes to send and receive information to and from other players). Latency is a fact of life in any online game: It takes time for information to travel across the country to the player(s) you’re playing against, or the server you’re connected to. This delay means what you see and what other players see can differ slightly depending on connection strength and distance from the server. We do what we can to reduce latency as much as possible, but it’s impossible to eliminate it entirely.
So how does this apply to pallets? Simply put, each player sees something different:
- The Survivor sees themself throwing the pallet before they get hit
- The Killer sees themself hitting the Survivor before the pallet is dropped
To give you a better idea of what this looks like, take a look at this (simplified) diagram.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/UT5OSUHG3GGV/assetb1.png
In this example, the Survivor drops the pallet first, but the Killer doesn’t see that until they’ve already swung their weapon. As a result, the Killer hits the Survivor and then gets stunned. This isn’t so bad when both players have a low latency, but it can look very strange and unfair when latencies are high.
So what’s going to change?
Simply put, the server will become the judge. When you either drop a pallet or swing your weapon, that gets sent to the server. If the server receives a hit before a stun, the Killer hits the Survivor as they normally would. But if the server receives a stun before a hit, the hit is rejected. This is similar to how hit validation works now. The new diagram would look a little like this:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/5YO0UFFLPH7S/assetb2.png
As you can see, the server receives the pallet stun first, and then knows to reject the Killer’s hit as a result. That said, we have not changed how the mechanic of a pallet stun works – the pallet will still need to be approximately 50% of the way down before it stuns the Killer.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/4EUH2MZEBB2K/patchnotesdivider.png
Game Health: Grabs
On the flipside, we’ve all been there: You sneak up on a Survivor and go for the grab… and nothing happens. You hold your hand out menacingly and watch as they run away.
Why does this happen? A lot like pallet hits, this comes down to latency: Each person sees something different. The Killer sees themselves grab the Survivor before they can run away, and the Survivor sees themselves run away before the Killer can grab them. When the server receives the grab request from the Killer, it notices that the Survivor is no longer there, so it cancels the grab. Again, here’s a diagram to help visualize this:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/DSVMHDZVIAKJ/assetc1.png
So what’s the solution?
The solution for this is much more complicated, so it will come in two parts: A long term solution, and a temporary solution to bridge the gap.
The temporary solution: Whenever a grab is rejected by the server, the Killer will instead swing their weapon automatically and be granted challenge progress and Bloodpoints as if they had successfully grabbed the Survivor. This way, you won’t lose out on a hit because the grab was cancelled, and you’ll have an easier time completing Archive challenges that require you to interrupt Survivors. So now, the diagram would look like this:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/8PTBIOOBXJV6/assetc2.png
The permanent solution: We will rework the way interactions and interrupts work from the ground up with dedicated servers in mind. Our current system has not been significantly changed since the days where the Killer was the server and had full authority over grabs (as the Survivors were connected directly to them).
And with that, we’ve reached the end of this month’s Developer Update. If you made it this far, give yourself a pat on the back! That was a lot of reading, way to go! The changes mentioned in this post will be available in the Player Test Build which starts next Wednesday, July 7th. As always, we look forward to hearing what you think!
This developer update tells us there is supposed to be “A long term solution, and a temporary solution to bridge the gap“ for grabs. Where is the long term grab solution we were promised??????
Grabs are currently very survivor sided, because making a grab attempt is killer client validated, but the grab itself is server validated, which means the window for a successful killer grab is smaller than the window a survivor is doing a grabbable action.
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@Marik1987 said:
Its a tactic which works. At the moment u need another survivor for the pickup while u chase another one. This means only 1 survivor is probably working on a gen, which is what killers want.
Without slugging sometimes, killers would have far less pressure in some games and gens would fly much faster than they already do.
The issue I see is the endgame slug while playing a 2v1 just to get the 4K. Thats unneccessary and a time waste in my opinion, a killers goal should always be a 3K. If survivor gets hatch or not is a bonus, nothing else.
Does this mean the survivors goal should always be a 1k?
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I am often forced to let survivors bleed out on the ground, because I literally can’t get them to a hook, and they would rather bleed out than allow me to hook them. The fact that I’m often forced to slug survivors is a problem.
And it will be even worse if basekit unbreakable happens. It’s too easy to equip breakdown, and create a 3 minute safe zone just because a survivor was unhooked.
And shaming killers for slugging for the 4k is a double standard, because many of those people would gladly sweat for the 0k. If all the generators have been powered, and the killer is camping a survivor, the other 3 survivors could easily leave the game, and take the 1k, which is still a win for the survivors. But many of them will still try to get a 0k anyway.
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@AshInTheTallGrass said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3259101#Comment_3259101
Personally, I wouldn't mind. Same as when I see Left Behind. When I run that, it's because it's a backup (and I'm doing a challenge that I have to escape the hatch). I don't play with the intention of screwing everyone else over. I play normally and use that as a last resort.
Fair point about lobby dodgers. I hope someone else reads your comment and adds to the discussion. Personally, if someone dodged because of my layout, I wouldn't mind. Solo is often a headache, so playing with people who aren't annoyed over my perks/playstyle would be better for my gaming experience. Keep in mind, my queue times are relatively quick (and I haven't had a 30-minute queue time in years), so I'm not too concerned about it. So for me, that con doesn't outweigh it. However, for people in certain regions with longer queue times, that might understandably bother them. Perhaps a compromise is simply to have the option to show your layout. If you want to hide it, you can. What's your opinion?
There would be people that would dodge lobbies if someone hid their perks, because they would assume there's a good reason the perks are hidden. Most people just wouldn't hide their perks if they were stuff like prove thyself and dead hard.
And we would run into the 5 second switch problem anyway, where survivors would just switch to their anti-team perks at the last second.
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@AshInTheTallGrass said:
(I'm not going to bat for these ideas. I'm presenting them so they can get fleshed out.)
I've heard before that BHVR can get close to balancing the game by bridging the gap between solo and SWF, and then buffing Killers accordingly.
If we go with that idea, how do we do this? Here are some ideas I've heard and thought of:
In the lobby, Survivors will see the load-outs of all of the other Survivors (perks and offerings). For instance, if you're running Inner Strength and your teammate is running CoH, you know to either A., consider switching your perk or B, break an obvious totem over a hidden one.
Expand the in-game icons. Anytime a Survivor is in chase, there will be an icon indicating so. Same with working on gens. These would only be visible to the Survivors.
Some have suggested making Kindred base-kit, but if it were, Kindred would have to get adjusted. Would the new base-kit Kindred only show the auras of Survivors (and the perk would be reworked to only show the Killer's)?
If these changes do go live, Killers would have to get adjusted to account for it. Would every Killer get adjusted? (Looking at you, Nurse). Would every Killer get the same adjustments, to the same percentage? Those are TBD.
But the general idea is, should BHVR first bridge the gap and then balance the game around that? What are the pros and cons of that direction? And do the cons outweigh the pros? Would it make the game more balanced, or somehow make it sweatier? Does it take some of the fun out of the game? Of course, these are hypotheticals, but sometimes certain people have greater insight into which hypotheticals are more likely to be real.
If survivors can see each other's perks in the lobby, then there might be a lot of lobby dodging. Do you seriously think survivors want to be on the same team as a sole survivor / wake up gamer, that will probably hide the entire game and wait for all their teammates to die?
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@Mandy said:
With regards to the recent PTB, the timing on there was bugged as it definitely allowed the blinds to happen too early.
Part of the reasoning for adding the buffer is to allow for latency, as we all know when latency is present what the survivor sees is not necessarily the position the killer is in, and as timing is key for the flashlight blind to go through and get the save, which is why we often see reports of bugs where on the survivor side the timing is pretty much perfect however latency has said otherwise - by having the buffer in place, that should resolve that issue as well as helping out some newer players.
I thought that was exactly how server validation worked, and that we were told server validation was fair?
Can this latency buffer also be applied to killer grabs, because timing is key for that too? Grabs are currently very survivor sided, because making a grab attempt is killer client validated, but the grab itself is server validated, which means the window for a successful killer grab is smaller than the window a survivor is doing a grabbable action.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3257531#Comment_3257531
Killers get to pre-screen lobbies and dodge anything they don't want to play against.
Let survivors see the killer and add ons in pregame lobby and see how long it takes to start a match as double range nurse or blight with any combination of his many broken add ons.
People ragequit against a lot more than Blight and Nurse, so that wouldn’t fix the problem.
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3257848#Comment_3257848
If Survivors are intent on denying a Hook via things such as bodyblocking and sabotage, I think that's fine.
I don't like Comp Corner.
I don't think Killers should just be able to teleport to Hooks, thematically Hooks just not being consumed is still a better alternative than that.
Then we shouldn't have a basekit unbreakable mechanic. Killers shouldn't be punished for slugging, if they are forced to slug.
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3257538#Comment_3257538
Ah. Comp corner. Hate that. But I like Hooks disappearing on a Sacrifice given it gives weight to the sacrifice. Wonder if maybe having a Hook disappear could become a tactical choice, rather than a default. Would need a reason to consume a hook though.
If BHVR wants to punish killers for leaving survivors slugged on the ground, then killers should always have the option to hook a survivor, even if it's an action button to teleport the survivor to a random hook.
The basekit unbreakable update basically said that it's ok to delete slugging from the game because it's unfun for survivors, but we're going to make zero effort into helping killers so they don't have to slug survivors. How is that fair?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3257544#Comment_3257544
I mean, enjoy your 30 minute queues for a sweaty af game IG
Games where a survivor ragequits early is a wasted game for the killer too. I’d rather have a longer queue time than to waste games because of rage quitters.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3257533#Comment_3257533
Okay, so kill the game by perma-banning them.
Don’t perma-ban them. Just have the rage quitters matched with each other.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3257531#Comment_3257531
In my experience, they do quit at the same rate that Survivors do.
Likewise, I'd argue that MOST DBD matches are unfun for someone. Someone usually ends up being camped, tunneled, slugged or Gen rushed in almost all of my matches.
If someone gets unlucky and has that happen 3 or 4 times in a row, I can't blame them for wanting out.
I can blame them if they ragequit. “I’m not having fun” is not a valid reason for ragequitting.
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@ReviloDBD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3255698#Comment_3255698
How often does this really happen though? I may just be lucky, but I think in my entire 5+ years of playing DBD I've only had this happen to me one time on Survivor.
And I have never once done it as Killer because it is literally a waste of my own time as well.
Pretty much any day I play this game, I’m forced to let at least one survivor bleed out because I literally can’t get them to a hook. And the last 2 survivors I did this to, purposely ran to a specific corner of the map, because they knew there wasn’t a hook in range.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
I love bite the bullet
I just wish it activated while being healed too cause that is thematically the most sensable time to activate
Thematically, the perk should work whenever the user is self healing or being healed, but it shouldn’t work when the user is healing someone else.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3257177#Comment_3257177
No, it really isn't.
The root cause is that having fun in this game is FAR too dependent on other players deciding to allow it.
If the Killer wants you to have a miserable time, there's not much you can do about it.
If the Survivors want you to have an awful time, there's not much you can do about it.
After a certain number of those games (which aren't uncommon) I struggle to fault people for deciding to call it quits.
The root cause is people thinking that 100% of their games should be fun, and that it’s ok to ragequit if they aren’t having fun.
That should never be acceptable thinking in a group PvP game. How well would this game work if killers decided to ragequit at the same frequency that survivors ragequit? So whenever survivors are doing well, the killer just closes the game?
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@NoirGhost said:
I definitely have seen some concerns about it, mainly with how it could affect certain killers like Myers and Trapper, due to the perk not having a cooldown and a decent amount of time to see their aura. If the perk were to become popular in use, some of those killers would have to run perks like Fearmonger to counter it simply to get back any stealth or planning they had before.
But on the other end, there is a defense for it as it is based on the rng of you getting a skill check and then you being able to consistently hit great ones at that. Simply put it can be too unreliable to be a perk that becomes popular in use. Especially when it comes to SWF teams, as usually a perk like Fogwise isn't really needed if the group is on comms it isn't too hard to use communication to know where the killer is at almost all times.
So do you guys think the perk can be a bit too powerful if released as is and needs some sort of cooldown or requirement or do you think it won't be as bad as some claim and that no or very little changes should be made to it?
Survivors can pretty much force a skill check with a toolbox, and a yellow rarity toolbox with a yellow rarity +charges addon can force a skill check many times.
SWFs can get the most value, because they only need to force skill checks when none of them know where the killer is, and they can save their toolboxes otherwise.
For SWFs, even when toolboxes aren’t being used, randomly knowing where the killer is becomes a lot more powerful when you can communicate that information to everyone else on your team. SWFs don’t always have vision of the killer, and fogwise can help fill those gaps.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3257369#Comment_3257369
Well as I said, that is exactly what they will do (go play something else) if bans are too long and then you end up having less players in the queues and everyone loses.
I am sure BHVR knows this and their hands are somewhat tied as far as how heavy handed they can be with DC penalties
Frequent ragequitters should get matched with each other, so they can ruin each other’s games.
This is a fair solution. If someone thinks it’s ok to ruin games by ragequitting, they should be fine if they are matched with other people that think it’s ok to ruin games by ragequitting.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3256589#Comment_3256589
Totally inaccurate to what I've seen. I frequently see people ragequit on the first down, regardless of what killer is being used and before the quitter had the opportunity to discern how the killer is playing.
Then you see more DCs when the killer is someone like Nurse or Legion, which is kind of understandable but no less obnoxious to be subjected to.
I also have a lot of people ragequit on me if I find them super early in the game, and it doesn't matter which killer I'm playing. It's got to the point where I call Lethal Pursuer "Lethal DCer", because that is what often ends up happening if I catch a survivor in a deadzone at the beginning of the game.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3256222#Comment_3256222
It's not 'them telling you how to play' it's that a small portion of the community is abusing the system and ruining it for everyone.
I personally don't think infinite unbreakable is healthy and should be scrapped, but the devs have been targeting a number of game mechanics lately that are used in 'toxic' and 'abusable' ways. Flashlights are the most recent example. The click delay in the last patch and the new 'immune to locker saves' in the newest PTB are all because *some* survivors are abusing the system and ruining it for everyone else.
The slugging changes are the same thing, but for killers. They want to cut down on slugging because some killers throw hatchets at a downed survivor for 4 minutes, and you're being affected by that change too, whenever it finally goes live.
How is this different from the portion of the community that abuses the lone wolf strategy, to excessively hide the entire game, purposely let everyone else die, then try to escape as the last survivor?
And I can tell everyone right now, that when I play killer, that 100% of the time I let someone bleed out is because I couldn't guarantee a hook. There are a lot of survivors in my games that will purposely place themselves in situations where I can't guarantee a hook, and they will wiggle if I try to pick them up. The mori rework fixes the situation where all 4 survivors are dead or on the ground, but it makes forced slugging feel absolutely miserable in every other situation.
And the really big question is, why are there so many situations in this game where I'm forced to slug a survivor, and why did the mori rework completely ignore most of them?