Coffeecrashing
Coffeecrashing
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3270485#Comment_3270485
Yes remember one of the last times a perk was "ok in the stats" despite being absolutely abhorrent to go against
I remember
The perk's name was Object of Obsession. Stats wise it was perfectly fine, so why was it changed?
You know why.
OoO was nerfed because SWFs were using third party software to use the perk far beyond what the devs intended. Eruption is being used exactly how the devs intended. Killers aren't using third party software to break the perk, and they aren't using unforeseen mechanics to break the perk. They're just using the perk normally, as expected.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3270479#Comment_3270479
See that's your problem man
You're going under the assumption we all want it nerfed into the ground when in actuality, many of us want a chance to actually do something about it when it's in our games.
I don't want Eruption nerfed into the ground, I want to be able to actually do something about it when I'm vsing someone using it. This is the exact same issue dead hard had, even when you 100% knew somebody had it many times you couldn't do a thing to counter it.
Wanting something you find unhealthy changed, is not unreasonable by default no. It entirely depends on your idea, how you go about it etc.
It's the same situation the current dead hard still has. Telling killers "just don't lunge" and "just don't use certain killer powers" isn't realistic counterplay.
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@Rovend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3270462#Comment_3270462
Now Eruption is part of 3 gen kicking perks that every killer spams in 90% of games, and out of the 3, is the most oppressive.
And with the AoE or the Last X seconds it does not solve the core issue of being strong and uncounterable. What's the improvement in changing a completely busted perk against soloQ to a completely busted perk against everyone?
It would be an improvement because people would stop using solo q as an excuse to nerf the perk.
And I don't care how often you're seeing the perk. I'm still constantly dealing with Dead Hard, which still has lose/lose situations for killers, and I keep getting told it's fine. So I'm telling you that eruption is fine. This game is allowed to have strong perks, just deal with it. If the perk really was a problem, BHVR would see it in their stats.
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@Rovend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3270443#Comment_3270443
Because Eruption's effect is extremely strong to leave it to luck or unrealistic chase times. how many times have i already told you this? or tone down its effect or give it some way that soloQ survivors can deal with it.
If you want to make an AoE effect with the current effect, then this perk effect will desperately be in need of a nerf. If not, this perk will be in every killer player build that can afford to buy nemesis.
It's not unrealistic chase times though. Eruption has been meta since the meta shakeup, and many killers can still lose games even when they equip the perk. If the perk really was a problem, then BHVR would have seen it in their stats by now, because I'm sure they can pull stats to compare how killers perform with and without eruption.
And again, if you don't like the AoE idea, then the Last X seconds idea works too, and has zero chance of catching survivors that are just randomly near the generators. And according to you the perk is currently uncounterable by solo q, so Last X seconds should function exactly the same against solo q, so you shouldn't even notice a difference when you're in a solo q lobby.
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@Rovend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3270431#Comment_3270431
1)I agree it should be different, but if this game wants to have any sort of balance some rules must be followed. A rule like "A very strong, crippling effect of a perk should not be tied to an uncounterable condition with no cooldown".
2)I agree, but only if the balance of a perk and the relation with their teammates performances is measured in a realistic way, not expect survivors to loop a killer for 10 min because eruption.
3)I agree
4) I'll just copy what i put up there
- Strong does not translate to "extremely powerful, 0 counterplay, applied to multiple gens with barely cooldown"
and one of the two main problems with eruption is that you cant simply "get good". Or you play with friends and use third party software to circunvent its effect or you are defenceless.
The rules are being followed. It has counterplay based on the survivors being chased. You don't want counterplay. You just want a personal way to bypass the main strength of the perk.
And again you bring up that SWFs can bypass the perk, so it would be a good idea to make it an AoE incapacitate, or have it incapacitate anyone that repaired an affected generator in the last X seconds, so SWFs can’t bypass it so easily. That way at least one of your complaints could be fulfilled. It's better to fulfill 1 of your complaints instead of 0.
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@Rovend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3270394#Comment_3270394
Every single gen regressing perk in this game has a 'personal' way to bypass or at least lessen the effect of it.
The reason is because you cant expect every survivor to tank through the full force of all the effects of the perks killer have. Yet eruption has none.
On top of that it barely has cooldown.
On top of that it only requires a gen kick, which is not very punishing for like 10 killers at least.
On top of that the eruption cant be removed from a gen even if you know it has it.
Yet you expect this to be balanced on unrealistic chase times.
Imagine if hex devour could not be cleansed and be balanced about "survivor should not get hooked".
It's ok for perks to be different from each other. They don't need to follow rules so it's convenient for you.
It's also ok for survivors to be affected by their teammates performances.
It's also ok for the survivors to lose if they are repeatedly getting knocked to the ground quickly.
It's also ok for this game to have strong perks. Survivors still have a bunch of things that killers can't reliably bypass, and killers are told "just get good". So maybe you should "just get good" about eruption, because the perk is fine.
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@Exxodus21 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3270325#Comment_3270325
So you think you should always know exactly when eruption will trigger so you can completely negate it's main effect?
That is exactly what the person wants. The perk already has counterplay, which is based on the survivors being chased, but they want a personal way to bypass the incapacitate and make the perk useless.
The main value of the perk is the incapacitate, and BHVR already balances the generator perks based on their synergies to each other (remember they nerfed overcharge because of this).
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I'm excited for the new chapter because it means I can play the game again. I reached the BP cap, then the monthly rewards happened, and a few BP codes happened, so I'm over the BP limit, and I'm just not playing the game because I want as many BPs as possible on day 1 of the new chapter so I can unlock the new perks.
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@Rovend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3270220#Comment_3270220
Strong does not translate to "extremely powerful, 0 counterplay, applied to multiple gens with barely cooldown".
And eruption by itself does not hold the killer for camping. Even if BHVR completely destroys this perk, like giving like 3 minutes cd, i dont see killers stop using Brine/Overcharge combo.
Eruption is the only generator kicking perk that encourages killers to chase after survivors that try to pre leave generators, and run immediately away from all the unrepaired generators. Call of brine and overcharge just encourage killers to let those survivors run away, and just keep defending generators until a survivors misplays and the killer catches them out of position. And eruption does have value against 4 SWFs using voice communications, because those are the survivors that are likely to be using voice comms to warn each other where the killer is, making it easier for them to pre leave generators. Eruption is an important anti voice communication perk.
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@Rovend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3270193#Comment_3270193
I said it is overpowered/busted against soloQ while having little to no value against swf.
The first half of the sentence says it is far stronger against soloQ than it should be, but you are only focusing on the second half of what i said.
It's exactly as strong against solo q as it's supposed to be. Generator kicking perks should be strong, or killers won't use them, and will go back to camping friendly generator perks. We saw this before the meta shakeup, where most killer were barely kicking generators, and were barely using generator perks... and it can happen again if the generator perks get nerfed.
You will never be happy with what BHVR chooses to do. Either BHVR keeps eruption the same and you're unhappy, or they nerf eruption and killers go back to camping more because they no longer see a point in kicking generators, and you complain about the increased camping. So why should BHVR listen to you, when it wouldn't matter either way?
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@Rovend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3270184#Comment_3270184
If you want to be completely unavoidable, or tone down the incapacitation effect, change it entirely or increase the cooldown.
It is laughable that eruption has a 30sec cooldown while applying a 25sec incapacitation.
You said your complaint was that it affects solo q and SWF differently, and I made a suggestion that fixes that. If you only want suggestions that involve the perk getting nerfed, it means you are just using solo q as an excuse, and you really don’t care if it affects SWFs equally.
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The incentives never seem to change when I switch killers, so I assumed it meant we need more killers overall, but the specific killer you picked is in an MMR range where we need more survivors.
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@Rovend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3270057#Comment_3270057
I dont understand why are you so adamant in defending eruption. There is no need for it to be really busted against soloQ players because they cant comunicate with each other while having very little to no value against SWF.
You’re right that there isn’t a need for it to affect SWFs and solo q differently. That is why it would be a good idea to make it an AoE incapacitate, or have it incapacitate anyone that repaired an affected generator in the last X seconds, so SWFs can’t bypass it so easily.
This fixes your problem, and keeps the perk the same for solo q. We solved both problems at the same time!
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@Tizzle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3269281#Comment_3269281
So what you're saying is you want Eruption buffed to affect SWF which in turn will hurt solo queue even more?
This, instead of having the perk toned down to not affect solo queue as much?
Sounds great.
My suggestions are designed to specifically nerf the extra advantages SWFs get when they use voice communications to relay game information. This is an important distinction. This isn't designed to be a nerf to SWFs themselves, and it isn't designed to be a nerf to solo q survivors. It's only designed to affect the survivors that are trying to avoid the perk by using voice communications.
The healthiest way to bridge the gap between solo q and SWFs is by specifically nerfing the extra advantages SWFs get when they use voice communications to relay game information. This way you aren't nerfing SWFs themselves, because we all know that some SWFs don't use voice communications at all, and some SWFs aren't using voice communications to gain extra game advantages. We don't want to punish survivors for playing with their friends, but it's completely fine to try to reduce the extra game advantages of voice communications.
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@flowen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3269111#Comment_3269111
To be fair, I only opened that thread because I'm new, don't understand the game very well, and was seeking answers. The AoE thing I suggested half way through was a spitball idea based on incorrect perception.
If people honestly cared about making the perk affect solo q and SWFs equally, then it makes sense to buff the perk to an AoE incapacitate, or make it incapacitate anyone that repaired an affected generator in the last X seconds. This would make the perk the same experience for solo q, and would only affect SWFs using voice communications.
The problem is people say “eruption should affect solo q and SWFs equally”, but they are really just using solo q as an excuse to get the perk nerfed. This is the reason why the only acceptable solutions for them involving nerfing eruption.
TD;LR if someone actually cared about making the perk affect solo q and SWFs equally, then they would also be open to ideas where the perk is buffed against SWF but kept the same against solo. But if someone only wants ideas where eruption is nerfed, then they are using solo q as an excuse, and don’t actually care about the solo q / SWF balance.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3268724#Comment_3268724
Very true. As an example, a common complaint is Starstruck on Nurse. If the TR was changed to zero for Nurse while carrying a survivor or a blink lunge became a different type of attack that didn't activate Starstruck but still left Sloppy Butcher, etc as possibilities for Nurse as @Little_Kitten has suggested that would be a good example of balancing for the top 1% but not around the top 1%.
Very few people would miss it and people learning Nurse would still be able to have fun with Nurse.
That's a good point to bring up; the top 1% needs things as well and I think the example above illustrates a way to do that without sacrificing the fun of those who are not in the top 1%.
That would still be balancing around the top 1%. Average Nurses can still get good value out of Starstruck. Even if the Nurse player isn't good enough to rapidly slug survivors, just having the perk active can discourage survivors from trying to prevent Nurse from hooking a teammate. It can also encourage affected survivors to hide for the entire exposed duration, which means they aren't repairing generators, so it can still double as slowdown even if it's used by an average Nurse.
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@Nathan13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3268465#Comment_3268465
That probably would’ve been in the post PTB notes if they did which they weren’t.
Sigh
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@Blueberry said:
Why not just make it trigger like 2 seconds after a survivor goes down instead of instantly?
Now it has easy counter play.
However, we also had nearly that exact counter play to Pain Resonance and that still got nerfed anyway because it was "too difficult" I guess.
This all said, the killer is already only getting the reward if he downs survivors, IE playing well, of which that is good design. It also requires lots of wasted time kicking gens AND runs the risk of no value if that gen gets completed after kicking it before you can down someone.
It already has costs, risks and requirement associated with it.
I think there are a lot of other perks that are bad/unhealthy design that need changes much more than Eruption.
Pain res got nerfed because it gave a loud noise notification regardless of whether or not a survivor was repairing the generator, which meant the killer got generator regression and had a solid direction to go to after hooking a survivor.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3268465#Comment_3268465
yeah I am sad :(
that's kinda feeling my guess for what would happen. I was like,,, eh the guard are not amazing but the add-on... they're kinda good and that is rare sight in dbd to have decent add-on for killer. the add-on would help knight be more playable... so it is sad that they were nerfed to the ground. He might be worse coming out of ptb. I am also uncertain of the map of realm change. yes the guard spawns faster and get radius faster... but lower radius... somewhat hurts? Its kinda his best add-on right now because radius felt really small at base-kit. it would been nice to have 1/4 or 2/4 of add-on base-kit. I was specifically wanting to play knight because of add-on were really fun to use in PTB. I kinda feel like otz over-reacted to it. perhaps it would be better if add-on made 1-2 survivors scream randomly and aura add-on made 1-2 survivors aura be read when summoning x guard.
I think the Knight is overall worse off from these changes. Those two info perks would have been so useful to help Knight find survivors to chase, but with that nerfed into the ground, and complex pathing still trash, he’s only useful for his teachable perks.
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@Rovend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3268545#Comment_3268545
" Not. Get. Downed." Is not counterplay. Balance of a perk should not be made expecting every survivor to be able to outlast the killer long enough so that eruption does never activate.
The current counterplay is fine. If the survivors really are repeatedly losing chases super fast, then the survivors shouldn’t be winning.
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@Rovend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3268525#Comment_3268525
Please, think this through for a moment.
Think of the insane value you would be getting for a single, non-hex perk.
As a said before
- A 10% repair progress lost
- An AoE blast that incapacitates for 25 sec. You could even get hit even by walking close to a gen, or on a different floor that the eruptioned gen.
- can be applied to multiple gens
- does not have a reliable way to counter that does not require luck, clueless guess or god loopers teammates
- Makes survivors scream.
- Only requires a kick
This is not something one single perk should give you, not even a hex perk should give you this. This is some 2016 dbd perk level of broken.
It would be tuned to be the same experience for solo q as it is now. If you don’t like the AoE idea, then just make the incapacitate work on anyone that repaired an affected generator in the past X seconds before a survivor entered the dying state.
And again, the counterplay revolves around the survivors getting chased, and that’s ok. Survivors repairing generators don’t need an additional personal counterplay for the perk.
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@Rovend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3268423#Comment_3268423
I cant believe how a single perk that could cause multiple AoE incapacitating blasts across the map while making survivors scream with 0 counterplay and only requiring a previous kick does not sound extremely broken to you
The perk would function exactly the same for solo q. This change would only affect SWFs, so that SWFs would be affected like solo q currently is.
The perk has counterplay, based on the survivors being chased. Survivors that are repairing generators don’t need their own personal additional counterplay.
@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3268510#Comment_3268510
You'd have a point if it wasn't for the fact that killers who run full gen kicking builds camp and get away with it bc of their perks
T. somebody who has ran gen kicking perks and camped
Also counterplay relying on someone other than yourself isn't very well designed.
Killers that spend the game camping survivors don’t have the time to repeatedly patrol and kick generators around the map. Camping killers are glued to a hook until a save is made, then they immediately enter a chase, hook a survivor, then they are glued to the hook until the next save.
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@Piruluk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3268489#Comment_3268489
That would mean taking out Starstruck for Nurse too, in fact that could even mean removing or reworking nurse,because when played by a godly player, no counter, even a 25k SWF god like survivor squad would lose to it, unless they are playing the restricted version.
This recently could have been seen Hens's SWF 25k hours Vs Alf's Nurse
they played 3 games
2 games where perks were free to pick, Nurse won
1 games where they played by tournament rules then SWF won.
Yes, balancing for the top 1% would mean removing starstruck from Nurse. But the game isn’t balanced like that.
Balancing for the top 1% would also mean dead hard would need a super nerf, because we would evaluate the perk based on what would happen if survivors could use the perk absolutely perfectly, every single time.
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@Brokenbones said:
The big problem imo is that the perk is designed to be a "trap" perk but even if you are 100% aware of it, you have no recourse other than not doing the gen until a teammate goes down (bad) or being on the gen until someone goes down and getting hit by it (also bad).
I've suggested this elsewhere but here's my idea on how to fix it:
Instead of activating instantly after a down, there is a very short buffer instead. So, let's say 0.5 to 1s after you get a down the generator will explode and apply its effects.
This makes it so survivors who are attentive can react to the killer getting a down and let go to not get hit by incapacitated but the regression will apply like normal.
This would put eruption in line with every other gen perk that has counterplay
That defeats the whole intention of the perk. The intended counterplay to the perk is the other survivors doing well in chases.
Generator kicking perks need to be powerful, or killers won’t use them, and will instead go back to using camping friendly perks like pain res and deadlock.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3268489#Comment_3268489
But if only the top 1% could actually use it why spend the resources creating it and maintaining it when the other 99% won't use it (and who will provide, roughly, 99 more times gross revenue than the 1%)?
Because there are a lot of average people that will still use the perk, and it wont be overpowered when the average person uses it. I see optimal hyperfocus builds in my games, but I also see a lot of people using it without a toolbox, or using it without the optimal supporting perks, and they aren’t getting a lot of value from it.
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@Krazzik said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3268366#Comment_3268366
I mean that's exactly what it means. Balancing killers around the top 1% means making all killers able to hold their own and do well reliably against good 4-man SWFs. This in turn means that anyone he isn't a good 4-man SWF gets rolled.
Balancing for the top 1% means taking out all the things that get broken when the top 1% uses it. It means things like Hyperfocus would need to be nerfed into the ground, because we would evaluate the perk based on what would happen if a survivor could reliably hit every great skill check.
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I’m more concerned that Healing Poultice and Flint and Steel got nerfed into the ground.
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@Piruluk said:
Remember how Trickstershadow, and Dowsey, Jaee, hyped that game, and there is a big market for balanced competitive 1vs4 game.
Turns out that they were completely wrong, and in fact dbd devs are knowing what are they doing, also all of them returned to play exclusively.
Killer is absolutely miserable to play on VHS, because every survivor has voice communications and map pings.
That is the lesson DBD should learn from VHS.
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@flowen said:
I've been learning more about the game, and I've come across this topic, but I don't understand the logic behind and I'm hoping someone can clarify for me.
I've been seeing people talk about eruption in videos, and twitter, and I've noticed a few odd comments here and there on the forums; As far as I can tell, people think eruption isn't a super crazy perk, but needs a rework/nerf on the basis that it disproportionately affects solo queue while swfs can more easily dodge its secondary effect. What I don't get is; If the perk is fine and the problem is that it's inconsistent vs two different types of players, wouldn't the solution be to buff its ability to more consistently affect swfs rather than making it less punishing for the solo player?
Yes. The best solution would be to make it an AoE incapacitate, or have in incapacitate anyone that repaired an affected generator in the past X seconds.
This is the most fair solution, as it bridges the gap between solo q and SWF in a healthy way, which is by nerfing the advantages SWFs gets from voice communications.
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@LiveBritishReaction said:
Imo the only change Hyperfocus needs is hitting good skill checks should remove all your tokens even if you have Stake Out, otherwise it's fine. I would even buff it so you don't lose your tokens if you're interrupted by things that make you scream.
When it comes to the whole 5x toolbox skill check thing I will die on the hill that instead of Hyperfocus not working with toolboxes, they should just remove the 5x skill checks from toolboxes as a whole. I don't think the mechanic makes sense anyways.
Removing the extra skill checks from toolboxes would be good, since that would also stop the wallhacks on demand when Fogwise is released.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3266592#Comment_3266592
I dont think you understand how little information perks deal with Eruption. And that is even suggesting I have access to those perks to begin with. Again, as I have stated in another reply, I moved from PC to Console, I went from having every perk to literally starting over. Having access to those information perks not something within my control at the moment since I am still unlocking them.
And most information perks cannot reliably track the killer and survivor positions at all times. At least until the new chapter releases, since Fogwise and Empathy counter Eruption (and I can reliably hit Great Skill Checks), the issue is that getting reliable information currently does not exist atm.
I have made the suggestion before to make Eruption block the generator automatically instead of causing Incapacitated. It would make the perk effective against SWFs because of the blocking always happening and make it not as oppressive against SoloQ since it no longer Incapacitates survivors. It would still be a good perk that fits into the gen-kicking meta along with Call of Brine and Overcharge.
A better solution would be for eruption to be an AoE incapacitate, or for it to incapacitate anyone that repaired an affected generator in the last X seconds. This would make it exactly the same for solo q, and would help bridge the gap between solo q and SWF in a healthy way.
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@bjorksnas said:
Yes, since clearly it was too buggy to program in the breathing sound, and the footstep sounds only work if they feel like it killers deserve sound, simple as that
Exactly this. BHVR still can’t figure out how to make reliable survivor noises, so iron will needed the nerf it got.
OTR is a much healthier version of the previous iron will, and people can use that if they want 100% reduced noises.
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@egg_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3266315#Comment_3266315
?? What's so difficult about spinning??
If 360s looked anything like that, people wouldn’t be complaining about them.
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@Grigerbest said:
Basically: When survivors turning left or right they have such a complicated (realistic) turning animation, from upperbody to legs, but when killers turning left or right... Cough...Cough... Just watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHQqkkIbGRA
It looks like they're standing on a some sort of "Turning platform", it looks... Hilarious, weird and something that you'd expect from 2010 games...
Some killers don't even have their legs animated while they wiping their weapons and moving... (Hag)
My question is: Why we don't have the same complicated (realistic) turning animations for both survivors and killers?
Why old killers don't have a proper leg animations while "Hitting and wiping animations".
It's the same game after all. But it feels like at least with animations survivors were made in 2022, but killers were made in 2010. -_-
Realistic?????????? Do you have any videos of a person doing a 360 in real life? I eagerly await a video of someone doing that “realistic” animation in real life.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3266094#Comment_3266094
Nothing is guaranteed, so that's why I said they "Can" be tapped. Not every survivor has the same game sense, attention span, perks and so on. I've seen so many games where survivors techincally did like 6+ gens due to strong regression perk stacking.
There's no sure fire way to dodge eruptions crippling penalty apart from what I already said, which is why I think the perk is badly designed.
And yes I stand by the statement; kicking generators is not hard at all. Some people act like you lose so much time doing it but you really don't.
Final thing - thanks for projecting intentions onto me. Nowhere did I say survivor should be easy/without intelligent thought, that's just you projecting what you want to believe I'm saying when all I am arguing is that this perk is badly designed.
Perks aren’t required to have a way to reliably bypass them.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3266034#Comment_3266034
Playing a game with your friends does not bypass core game mechanics
And It's not an excuse to nerf a perk, the perk itself is just badly designed; the only way you can reliably avoid a crippling penalty is by either sitting around doing nothing until a teammate goes down or playing the game with friends who also happen to be on voice comms
That's hilariously bad design imo
Playing a game with your friends does not bypass core game mechanics. Using voice communications to relay game information to your teammates is bypassing core game mechanics.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3264420#Comment_3264420
The argument shouldn't be
"Nerf it because it affects solo Q more than swf"
The argument should be
"It should be changed because the main way of avoiding it mostly comes from being in a SWF".
Like I understand the rationalte some people have put forward about not going down, but that's an unrealistic expectation. Nobody plays perfectly. Ever.
It still means the solution is to buff eruption so it affects SWFs as much as solos.
The main way of avoiding eruption involves third party software that bypasses core game mechanics. That should never be used as an excuse to nerf a killer perk.
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The footsteps are unreliable because of sand, but there's also a whole bunch of tall objects everywhere so footstep noises are often very important on this map. The tall objects also make it very easy for survivors to block line of sight from the killer, and to hide which direction the survivors are running to.
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@Gandor said:
It already exists. Look up and down. It mimics a little what you do when you lounge. Works against dead hard pretty well (for reactionary users). However nowadays people use it proactively more then reactively (because lags and 0,5s duration)
Looking up and down never worked well for reactionary dead hard, because people would wait for the lunge audio cue. And reactive dead hard still works when both players have good ping, which means the perk punishes killers for having good ping, and killers with good ping still need to deal with reactionary dead hard.
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The only thing I really want basekit is an FoV slider. The killer FoV itself doesn’t make me nauseous. The issue is the excessive amount of camera movement I need to do as killer, compared to when I play survivor, because of the killer’s terrible FoV. I have to excessively move my camera to find survivors, excessive move my camera every time I turn a corner and I'm not sure which direction the scratchmarks are going, excessively spin my camera every time I lunge attack, and excessively jiggle my camera so I can fight with the awful aim dressing mechanic that likes to yank my camera. The whole concept that the killer experience should purposely feel awful for balance reasons, really should be removed. Buff survivors if you have to, but please just make my FoV better, and fix aim dressing so I don't need to fight my camera to stop it from stealing hits from me.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3264545#Comment_3264545
Yet again you are literally ignoring the information I put. I literally provided an explanation for the data, it's right there, yet you keep making the same statements and pretending like it isnt there.
Also it is how real human players in real life are performing, because I took that into account when making the post, besides, where the hell would I get the basis for the information? There is no AI that exists that just plays the game at peak performance for us (other than cheaters, but cheaters are often banned and excluded from the data, and most cheater AI play other killers than Nurse as well, mainly Spirit), so all the data is from real humans, since it is literally the only source.
Or maybe your explanation of the data wasn’t relevant or valid.
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@Rovend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3264515#Comment_3264515
At least it would put some pressure in the killer to hook the 3rd surv unless he wants to play whack-a-mole every 40 sec.
Did you watch streamers play the PTB? That’s exactly what they kept doing. They wanted to get as many new moris as possible, and sometimes that required 10+ minutes of slugging.
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She’s not even overperforming in the stats. Over half the killers are within a 5% kill rate difference. That’s barely anything.
And again, you keep talking about theoretical perfect performance scenarios. That’s not how real human players in real life are performing. In real life, human players aren’t overperforming with Nurse in matchmaking games, when you combine all the MMR levels together.
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@Jackal7879 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3264511#Comment_3264511
So then by that logic boon:COH (100%) wasn’t busted because it was supposed to make you heal faster
MOM that wasn’t op it was supposed to give you a free health state
DH it was supposed to make you avoid damage and give a dash for distance that was the point of the perk
So why were killers complaining about all this perks they did what they were supposed to do so why did get nerfed
Let’s recap…
”A perk shouldn’t get buffed just because it’s easier for SWFs to deal with it”
Perks getting nerfed have nothing to do with the above statement.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3264380#Comment_3264380
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/QLKXR7EYZACA/please-learn-to-read-statistics.png
I feel like this entire reply I made to someone can apply to this. Just my analysis from the data but personally BHVR never really gave us much information to work with.
Killrates are borderline meaningless when it comes to showing how balanced a killer is, killrates are not a justification for nerfing or buffing a killer, instead I get a grasp for their strengths and weaknesses, I then balance around those strengths taking all skill levels into account.
Most of the nerfs mentioned only affect high-tier players, in which Nurse is considered to be overperforming. Players who par average with other killers should be minimally affected suggesting MMR does it's job properly, but at that point, it's not an issue with the changes I make, but more so the matchmaking providing a proper platform for players to learn and grow, which it does to an extent.
Kill rates are meaningful, because they are based on the matchmaking system that the game uses. It doesn’t matter if the top Sadako player has a lower MMR than the top Nurse player, because both killers are being run through the matchmaking system.
Kill rates can tell you that Nurse isn’t overperforming in games that use MMR matchmaking (i.e. not the custom games). It doesn’t matter how Nurse performs in specific custom games, because that’s not the main game mode.
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@Rovend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3264485#Comment_3264485
I think a more restricted way of the ptb bk umbreakable should be done anyway.
It is not healthy for the game to allow killers to produce 4 minutes stalemates everytime they want to 4k.
The PTB basekit unbreakable didn’t even fix that scenario. It just made the stalemate go on even longer, because the survivors would pick themselves up instead of bleeding out, so the killer would spend even more time slugging for the 4k.
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@Jackal7879 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3264420#Comment_3264420
The devs can’t just forget about soloq it’s what makes majority of their player base and remember when the game first came out this game was supposed to be a stealth/hide and seek game so the “core game mechanics” are outdated that’s why they are giving QOL improvements and buffs for soloq
It doesn’t matter if you think the core game mechanics are outdated. They are still in the game, and SWFs are still bypassing them.
And eruption existing doesn’t mean BHVR “forgot about solo q”. It just means the perk was designed to be a surprise, and SWFs are bypassing the intention of the perk.
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@CursedPerson said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3264170#Comment_3264170
How could you possibly think unhealthy / uncounterable mechanics should not exist and not think the mori unbreakable update is good. There are so many examples of killers forcing a 4 minute bleedout maliciously or not. Also them downing the survivor then trying for the 4k creates a standoff situation were survivors will hide forever and adding that mechanic would help continue the game by incentivizing people to start the end game collapse.
There are many examples of where the killer is forced to slug a survivor, and the new mori system punished killers when they were forced to slug.
It was extra awful because survivors were going into the PTB with breakdown/flip flop/boil over/unbreakble, and tried as hard as they could to force the killer into situations where the killer had to slug the survivors.
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@Jackal7879 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3264305#Comment_3264305
Well what about old 1st live Boon:COH when it was 100% it was supposed to heal you up pretty fast and act like a med kit it did what it was supposed to do and it got nerfed twice to 50% why was that. because killers complained,no because everyone knew this perk overtuned
Old MOM 1st live release it was supposed to make you tank a hit and yet it got nerfed.why? Because it rewarded bad gameplay and everyone knew it was BS
old undying gave hex perks more lives but it combined well with ruin and made it to were you’d have cleanse 4-5 bones to get rid off ruin and yet it got nerfed that perk did what it was supposed to do but on certain killers it became to oppressive
Old no hook/1hook moris
Old insta heals (could pick up someone from dying to healthy in well an instant)
old iri head 5/3 hatchets
omega blink nurse
7-5 blink nurse (when nurse had 3 blinks base)
nurse pre nerf
old bnps (instant gen pop when used)
release legion
old DS
all these perks and add ons or killers were designed a certain way or specific reason but everyone agreed that they were unhealthy for the game so they got balanced or nerfed or reworked because they were unhealthy for the game
If people want to complain about eruption, then that’s fine. But arguing that eruption should be nerfed because it affects solo q more than SWF, isn’t a valid argument.
For starters, it just means the solution is to make eruption give an AoE incapacitate, or make it incapacitate anyone that repaired an affected generator in the last X seconds, so that it affects solo q and SWFs a lot more equally.
Everything is easier in a SWF, because voice communication breaks core game mechanics. But we shouldn’t be nerfing perks just because SWFs are playing in easy mode.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3264343#Comment_3264343
"I made sure to consider all skill levels" was put for a reason. I considered new Nurse players, people who are average, and high-level Nurse players when picking the ideas. A lot of the stuff mentioned do not change much about Nurse's basekit for a reason.
You didn’t consider the fact that most Nurse players aren’t overperforming. The vast majority of Nurse players in your games aren’t overperforming. That is what the kill rate stats showed us.