Coffeecrashing
Coffeecrashing
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@MB666 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/364117/devs-arent-survivor-sided
that perk was busted as hell against solo Q players so i dont mind... (i never used eruption anyway soo whatever)
also try ( PR+DMS + ,Mindbreaker) that combination is pretty solid..because eruption is gonna be nerfed you liked or not..🤐
now we have to wait weeks of sweaty killer players abusing that perk meanwhile some other are definetly gonna try new combinations and thats good.
By these standards, dead hard needs a major nerf because it's busted and oppressive against certain killers like Trickster.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3341269#Comment_3341269
Okay? That still doesn't really relate to the core topic, which is complaining that Eruption got nerfed quickly when it took years to nerf Dead Hard.
The complaint is that BHVR still hasn't given dead hard a good enough nerf, even though it has been overpowered for a very long time. The "nerf" changed dead hard from the most used exhaustion perk.... to the most used exhaustion perk. I'm still constantly dealing with it, and I'd rather deal with the previous dead hard, because it didn't have a sprint burst attached to it, and it didn't hard counter a bunch of killers like Trickster.
Trickster used to be able to just keep throwing knives through old dead hard. The new dead hard gives a survivor a speed burst, and it resets the laceration meter to zero.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3341257#Comment_3341257
They just nerfed Dead Hard in 6.1, which wasn't that long ago. They should definitely be looking at tackling other, bigger problems instead of fine-tuning a perk that's mostly fine in almost all scenarios.
That nerf wasn't good enough.
Just because something got a nerf doesn't mean that it's automatically fine. Just look at how many people complained about Nurse, even though they gave her a massive nerf a few years ago when they reworked her power. Should we have told those survivors they shouldn't have complained about Nurse, because she had already gotten a nerf?
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@jesterkind said:
Do you not want them to learn from their mistakes? Should every change take as long as it took Dead Hard to get fixed?
I don't understand this argument. If you think it was a problem to take years to fix Dead Hard, surely it would also be a problem if they took years to fix Eruption? If so, they should learn from previous mistakes and fix it quicker, surely?
They should learn from their mistakes and nerf dead hard for real. A nerf at the same level as what they did with eruption, where it's a waste of a perk for most killers. I will be dropping eruptions from my builds, and dead hard should also get a real nerf that causes a lot of people to drop that perk from their builds.
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So now we can get SWFs, where one person chooses any means necessary, and just resets all the pallets? So with most the killers, we can't just leave dropped pallets anymore to destroy them later? I hope BHVR has something huge planned for killer improvements, because this is just a world marathon of survivor improvements.
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Where is the dead hard nerf? Survivors get multiple quality of life improvements, promises of accessibility changes, and now the perk they complained about the most is nerfed?
This is such a bad joke. Zero announcements if killers will ever get quality of life improvements. Zero announcements if killers will ever get accessibility changes. Zero announcements if the most complained about survivor perk will get a real nerf.
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Where is the dead hard nerf? Survivors get multiple quality of life improvements, promises of accessibility changes, and now the perk they complained about the most is nerfed?
This is such a bad joke. Zero announcements if killers will ever get quality of life improvements. Zero announcements if killers will ever get accessibility changes. Zero announcements if the most complained about survivor perk will get a real nerf.
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We still don’t have news about Blight’s major collision problem (that hurts his performance) that he’s had since they raised his camera angle. If you really cared about Blight working as intended, you should be fighting for those collision problems to be fixed too.
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Nurse isn’t a complicated issue. There are a lot of survivors that just want to run from pallet to pallet, and they think it’s exciting when they are against M1 killers that are stuck just following the survivor for a world tour of every pallet in the area.
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@sonata93 said:
I doubt it, but we'll see.
I can't really think of any ideas on how they could nerf it without entirely redesigning the perk.
Here's my hot take though - DH shouldn't be an exhaustion perk and should become a one-time-use perk like Decisive. The fact that survivors can repeatedly get a free, third-health state every time their exhaustion meter goes down always has, and always will be, horribly unfair. Rather than it being a constant 'get out of jail free' card for survivors to extend every single chase with the killer, it would require more strategy and they'd have to be more selective about when they choose to use it.
It was a horrible perk pre 'nerf' and one could actually argue that it wasn't a nerf by any means and was more of a buff.
I agree that dead hard should become a one time use perk. Survivors have gotten so much stuff lately, that BHVR should give this perk a real nerf. It’s by far the most complained about survivor perk.
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@FMG15 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3340375#Comment_3340375
Mandy already confirmed that hug tech is being considered a bug and will therefore be removed someday (though this is BHVR we are talking about so no idea if this ever happens). The thing that kinda annoys me is that hug tech allows you to preserve one rush which should never be a thing. Though I'm against removing it unless they fix map collision so you can bump on any object properly.
The thing that annoys me is BHVR has publicly declared they want to fix a collision bug that helps Blight.... but has been completely silent about wanting to fix Blight's major collision bug that has been hurting his performance since they raised his camera angle years ago.
Major Double Standard
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@OneGoodBoyDemo said:
This is unconfirmed, l know that but the devs said that the realm beyond update would continue and that many changes would come in the last mid-chapter of the sixth year of DBD.
Usually while they work on realm beyond update, new maps are not released which makes me sad. l know that the devs don't have the talent to make a decent map even after 6 years of experience but still one of the things i'm most excited about is the new maps even if sometimes they are broken and unbalanced. well, we can wait for the swamp rework I guess...
The map creating team needs some serious training before they create any new maps. Whoever is was that decided that it would be fun to force killers to search for red scratchmarks, red pools of blood, and red auras.... on a red map with a red glow, is in serious need of extra training. It is beyond my comprehension why BHVR couldn't just give the map a completely different tone color for killers. Is the map creation team proud of their newest map? Do they see the red on red on red, and high five each other for a job well done?
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
- Most of his addons are much weaker. There aren't that many good addons.
- His base kit recharge of tokens is bit slower.
- Reworked colision (no more techs, etc.)
Note: I am NOT asking for such changes, I am just saying would YOU play him if he got "Billy 2.0" pass.
I’m still waiting for BHVR to fix Blight’s bump hitbox, which has been bugged for years, and this bug hurts his gameplay.
If we’re so concerned about Blight working as intended, it should be a high priority to fix bugs that hurt his performance.
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I'm worried we will get another lopsided perk update. New dead hard is more obnoxious than old dead hard on certain killers, and there's not even a hint that the perk would be touched. Even if BHVR said they were looking into the perk, why should killers get their hopes up? They could just nerf dead hard, and give it an obnoxious new ability, just like they did by attaching a sprint burst to a successful new dead hard.
In return, we might get another nerf to circle of healing, which has already gotten multiple nerfs, and isn't complained about anywhere near as much as dead hard.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339606#Comment_3339606
Then look at it this way.
If a survivor is on a hook and being facecamped then trying to escape the hook is playing the game the way it is intended because the small chance of escaping from a hook is greater than the 0% chance of surviving by being facecamped. Sure, that action is dooming the other survivors, but if the survivors aren't a team, doing the escape from hook (ie suicide) is the absolutely right move.
If your intent is to get out of the game faster, then you are ragequitting.
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Make Dead Hard like DS, where it deactivates for the rest of the game if it successfully triggers.
Or remove the speed burst that happens if it successfully triggers. We don’t need an on-demand sprint burst in this game.
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@tippy2k2 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339587#Comment_3339587
For a lot of killers, especially emotional ones or new killers, it becomes a matter of throwing good money after bad
If they give up on the chase after 30 seconds, that's 30 seconds they completely wasted. They don't think about the next 70 seconds they'll waste continuing to try to catch you, they just think about the first 30.
So when they do inevitably catch you, they've now wasted too much time on one player and decide to make sure they get the one kill instead of zero
It's (probably) nothing to do about hating you, it's that at that point they feel like they have no choice if they want to secure a kill
If someone gives up on chase after 30 seconds, then they’ve wasted a lot more than 30 seconds, because now have to waste time patrolling the map to find a different survivor to chase, and they’re me no guarantee this new survivor will be easily to chase than the first survivor you were chasing.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339580#Comment_3339580
That's kind of my point. I don't give up on hook even when face camped because I see the other survivors as my team.
Some people in this thread, and BHVR themselves, say that each survivor should only care about themselves. The whole 1v1v1v1v1 argument, which, if true, every survivor should give up on hook if facecamped.
That's why recognizing survivors as a team and giving a team 'win' message would help a lot. In plenty of multiplayer games sometimes I end up in the "boring" role, but I do it because I want the team to win.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339599#Comment_3339599
Who said anything about rage quitting? The game has a built in get out of the game mechanic.
Purposely leaving a game early is ragequitting. It doesn’t matter if you use a “built in” way to quit, you’re still ragequitting.
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@crogers271 said:
Much like DbD moved away from stealth to looping gameplay I really feel like they need to ditch the idea of survivors are not a team (1v1v1v1v1). While a nice concept, it doesn't really work as a game.
As @StarLost says above, if as a survivor I'm getting facecamped why shouldn't I suicide and go play another game? The way to counter camping on the survivor side is to just do gens/reassurance the survivor on the hook. This all though depends on the survivor sitting on the hook and just accepting a loss. Which they currently have no rational reason to do other than the idea that they are helping their "team".
I feel that the game would be improved by an end screen that says 'survivors win', 'killer win', or 'draw' - we don't even have to discuss new perks/changes. Knowing there is a team to play for will give a reason for the survivor to stay on the hook instead of suicide and also give the killer reason to play more aggressively. You can then also do BP, etc. based rewards on overall survivor performance, but I think the message screen would be a big help.
You shouldn’t ragequit because that is against the game rules.
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@wydyadoit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339511#Comment_3339511
i can't speak for everyone. but i do remember the lobby dodging issue. that would have been easy to fix. league of legends has a punishment system for lobby dodgers. 🤷🏻♂️
at this point we don't even need the lobby. just throw us into a match. why should i spend an additional 2 minutes waiting on people to ready up? that's a side effect of the old killer host system, but now we have a dedicated host and people that disconnect are (supposedly) punished for leaving. why should we sit through an additional loading screen and menu option? when you ready up it should lock your loadouts and your character. no more stream snipers and no more last second item swaps
I would also like for the lobby screen to go away. Because of survivor last second switches, it doesn’t reliably allow the killer to switch stuff in reaction to the survivor items, which was supposed to be the point of lobbies.
The only thing lobbies do, is encourage people to purposely not hit there ready button, so they can last second switch, which is a waste of game time.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337869#Comment_3337869
I am curious, what will be the excuse of Killers when the Kill Rates are not much affected?
Because aside from now knowing that my teammates are really inefficient, nothing really changed.
I think it matters if we will actually get stats based on MMR. It might turn out that at an average MMR, it’s not much of a difference…… but at higher MMR, when the survivors are a pair of 2-SWFs, where each 2-SWF now has additional information on what the other 2-SWF is doing, it might be a lot more miserable for the killer.
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Dead Hard needs to get hard nerfed. It's by far the most complained about survivor perk. When I first heard of the meta shakeup, I thought it was going to be exciting and refreshing, but it's clearly not, because I'm still constantly stuck with dead hard.
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@VideoGameMage said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3334910#Comment_3334910
See that's the problem people in this community has. When one side gets something people immediately go "but what about meee".
Immediately?????? Didn't we know about BHVR's plan to possibly add survivor icons over a year ago? And it's been a few months since they announced the survivor visual terror radius accessibility plan? And now we have a roadmap for the next few months that still doesn't mention any plans for quality of life or accessibility content for killers? How much time has to pass before it becomes acceptable to complain? 2 years? 3 years? 5 years?
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3335634#Comment_3335634
I can agree with most of those, except the sound thing. It should work as can be expected, that I agree with, but nerfing sound-blocking perks from 100% to 75% defeats their purpose entirely and isn't QoL, but a nerf to perks that already aren't good.
If survivor footstep noises were actually reliable, even when the survivor breaks line of sight, then -100% grunts of pain addons would be fine. But right now, we get survivors that you can't hear their footstep noises over the chase music, even though they are like 2 yards away, and they aren't making any grunts of pain.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3335733#Comment_3335733
Making killer actions take less time does improve QoL. You can disagree but it doesn't change the fact they were given alot of little buffs. You can argue it didn't do enough and that would be a perfectly reasonable opinion. However stop pretending killers are always getting the shaft. They've had massive improvements over the course of this games life.
What killers got isn’t anywhere near the quality of life improvements that survivors got with the survivor HUD. BHVR even added an extra thing to the survivor HUD recently, and told us that accessibility issues are important for survivors. When do we get the announcement that accessibility issues are also important for killers? Why did a roadmap just get released, that made it painfully obvious that killer quality of life improvements and killer accessibility changes, aren’t even be considered as important things that need to eventually happen?
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3335614#Comment_3335614
It's been like 6 months since the QoL buffs they got.
Those weren’t quality of life buffs. They were uninspired generic number buffs, that did nothing to address the killer experience.
And this is one of the biggest problems with these forums. When we talk about survivors, their player experience is important, but when we talk about killers, the only thing that matters is their kill rate %
How would people like it if the roles were reversed? How would people like it if killers had gotten multiple quality of life improvements these past few patches, and whenever someone complained that survivors didn’t get QoL buffs, BHVR could say “don’t worry survivors, if the killer changes affect the escape rate, we’ll fix that for you”.
This game would be a lot better if we didn’t see the kill rate % as a special gift that is given to killers, and is the only thing that matters at all for killers.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3335614#Comment_3335614
What kind of QoL improvements would you want to see for killers? Because the only things I've seen so far that qualifies as a QoL improvement would be FoV adjustments, and Nurse's chase theme being quieter.
1) FoV slider, so that killers aren't forced to deal with outdated mechanics related to their terrible FoV
2) Quieter chase music. This includes Nurse, because BHVR actively reduced her quality of life, by purposely giving her new chase music that is both way too loud, and has a bunch of thud noises in it, which makes it absolutely miserable to hear survivors.
3) More reliable survivor noises. We have a sound occlusion mechanic that can muffle or delete sounds if we don't have line of sight with the survivor, even if the survivor is behind a paper thin unenclosed wall. Bonus improvement: the 100% sound reduction survivor perks could be nerfed down to 75%.
4) Change the survivor injured pose, so it's not leaning forward so much, so the survivors hitbox matches their character a lot more, and so survivors aren't whipping around like a rag doll when they are spinning their controls. Bonus improvement: a survivor spinning their camera shouldn't affect how quickly they can turn their character.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3334917#Comment_3334917
Killer got QoL improvements not that long ago. Guess what, they'll probably get more in the not to distant future.
Killers got zero quality of life improvements. How many people have you heard say "wow, the killer experience feels better because I kick pallets ever so slightly faster"? How many people have you heard say "wow, the killer experience feels better because I recover ever so slightly faster"? Quality of life improvements are supposed to make the playing experience feel better, and none of those killer changes did that. Meanwhile, we had survivor quality of life improvements that were so exciting that someone from BHVR ran to the forums and was super excited to let us know about these exciting changes. Do you think that would EVER happen to killers? Do you think anyone from BHVR would EVER run to the forums to let us know about exciting killer changes?
@GannTM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3335403#Comment_3335403
How do you know it’s double standard when you don’t know if I agree that killers need buffs?
Your opinion doesn't matter. If some killers think BHVR is showing a double standard, by placing so much focus on quality of life changes for survivors, and at the same time absolutely refusing to even comment on whether or not killers will ever get any quality of life improvements, then it's both related and relevant for people to be upset at BHVR for the lack of killer quality of life improvements.
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@GannTM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3334917#Comment_3334917
Whataboutism at its finest.
Claiming a double standard isn't whataboutism.
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@GannTM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3334466#Comment_3334466
It wouldn’t be this bad if everyone just accepted that solo queue needed this change.
It wouldn’t be this bad if everyone just accepted that solo queue AND killers needed quality of life improvements.
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@ironblade said:
They planned an entire roadmap, they shared news, they promised and delivered. They made SoloQ much better now with the new HUD that they worked so hard on and they surprised us with Maurice skin and william birkin for blight. Why are you hating on them even though they deliver good patches?
They literally gave us zero news on whether or not killers will ever get quality of life improvements, even though there has been so much discussion and implementation of quality of life changes for survivors. We haven’t even been told it’s something they might consider, and it’s not in the roadmap at all.
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@ironblade said:
If it makes you more vulnerable to flashlights? Would you accept the corner flashlight saves for a bigger FoV?
The flashlight blind zone could just stay the same. It's not like the current flashlight blind zone makes any sense anyway, considering survivors can flashlight blind killers from outside of the killer's terrible FoV.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3333246#Comment_3333246
1, is biggest buff to blights. I know a lot of people without ANY handicap that equip the perk on him specifically over any other perk
2, and 3, helps spirit the most - number #3 strongest killer in game (strictly in high MMR with all addons allowed - it might be even higher)
Also adding 1, is such a buff making vertical FOV sliders for survivors - it's just that I want to see more things in my screen (and I conveniently don't mention 100% visibility on killers in a lot of loops preventing any mindgames) - same for FOV -> you significantly reduce 360's, window techs and some mid-chase hiding tricks.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3333418#Comment_3333418
Sure bud. Let's also buff SWF while we are at it. It's not a good idea to equalize stuff. Let's create stronger nukes on both sides
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3333433#Comment_3333433
It buffs SWF? I have no idea how. In SWF if I have gen worth talking about, I will call it out. No need to hope everyone in my team will have eyes glued on that HUD instead of map. Also when calling out things - I do call them out when necessary and not otherwise. So I don't flood other survivors with garbage information. HUD is mostly garbage information, but sometimes information that matters a lot. SWF naturally filters out garbage info. It makes very little sense to say these icons buff SWF. SWF just got unfiltered data instead of pure information and you say they will start to use that data instead. Like why?
An FoV slider would be fine. Some of the mechanics that killers currently deal with, due to their terrible FoV, should be considered outdated and unnecessary.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3333807#Comment_3333807
It does have a higher priority… what are you talking about? If you have a survivor directly in front of a locker, and you face the locker while on top of the survivor, it will search the locker 1,000%. The locker cj is about timing the jump out at the same time the killer goes to open the locker, and it forces the killer to pick up the survivor instead.
Then maybe my game was bugged, because I couldn’t get a locker search prompt. And in the game I was talking about, it really did look like one of the survivors was purposely trying to bodyblock, and purposely stopped in front of the locker of the survivor I was chasing, and when I knocked them to the ground, they made sure to be directly in front of the locker.
And none of this explains why we can’t have separate buttons as a quality of life improvement. Why are killers expected to constantly fight outdated mechanics, but survivors are allowed to get quality of life improvements?
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@Peanits said:
You can very easily counter those by:
- Seeing that there's a Survivor next to the locker
- Watching the Survivor enter the locker
- Wait a fraction of a second
- Use the attack button rather than the search button to grab them
Locker blinds, meanwhile, could have no counter when done correctly. There was nothing forcing the Survivor inside to leave. If you chase the Survivor who's in position for the save, the Survivor in the locker would be free to leave and could swap places with the other Survivor (they hop in the locker, other Survivor gets in position to save them instead).
It's a creative use of lockers- and pallets by extension- for sure, but the point of the locker blind change wasn't to force people to use lockers a certain way, it was to remove a situation that could have no counterplay. In this case, the counterplay is very easy. It might catch you off guard the first few times, but then you'll quickly learn how to spot it and how to deal with it.
That’s not what the OP was complaining about. We aren’t complaining about the difference between making an attack or searching a locker. We’re complaining about the difference between picking up a survivor and opening a locker.
I had a game where a knocked down survivor was directly in front of a locker, and a survivor was waiting in that locker, and I wasn’t able to get a prompt to open the locker. Bully SWFs sometimes do this on purpose, so they can laugh at the killer, because the survivor in the locker is immune because the knocked down survivor is blocking the search locker prompt. And if the killer picks up the knocked down survivor, then the survivor in the locker will jump out with their flashlight so they can get a flashlight blind.
TD;LR searching a locker should have a higher priority than picking up a survivor that is directly in front of the locker. Killers can change their camera angle to choose to pick up a survivor, but they can’t change their camera angle to choose to open the locker.
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
The problem is ping. If the killer has a better ping than you, they will down you even though on your end it said they shoudn't. On the other hand, it goes both ways. If you have a better ping than the killer, you get extra time on your Dead Hard window. This really isn't something that can be fixed even with server side validation because the person with the better ping will always get the win all other factors equal. That's just how the internet works.
Server validation actually punishes the killer for having good ping, because if the killer and survivor both have good ping, then the survivor has a more accurate view of where the killer is and what they are doing, which makes it easier to dead hard on reaction, or to predict when they should dead hard.
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The game can’t ever have actual normalized killer performance, because the skill caps on the killers are too different. A few killers are allowed to be really strong, because their skill caps are so high that most people can’t overperform while playing them. It’s important for there to be a good distribution of killers across the MMR levels, and if the low skill cap killers are buffed too much, then there would be too many people over performing with them.
The only way BHVR can fairly normalize killer performance is via MMR, by normalizing the kill rate percentage across the various killers, which they already do.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3333418#Comment_3333418
I mean, the survivor change that we have here is a QoL change. It might go a little further because it is slightly more specific, but the information in general - generator progress - is already shared... by survivors on comms. Spreading that same information to solo queue is QoL, because it's not giving them something optional or extra; it's catching them up to what they should have already and making that already available information smoother to access.
I'm not sure what you mean by that last part. What would higher tier killers be "excluded" from? We've already touched the few QoL things all killers could get, so it must be the idea of buffing lower tier killers, but... the top killers don't need buffs, they're already at the top. That's not exclusion, it's just basic common sense.
If BHVR gives survivors buffs (in the form of quality of life changes), but only buffs the lower tier killers as compensation, that means the higher tier killers have overall become less powerful than they were before.
It also feels bad, because trying to turn this into a "we should only make specific killer buffs", means that the quality of life changes the killers need as a whole would never happen. And some of these quality of life changes overlap heavily with accessibility issues, and BHVR said they cared about accessibility, even though we still have zero killer specific accessibility changes announced.
And we've got ZERO quality of life buffs for killers. Making killers kick pallets slightly faster is NOT a quality of life improvement. Have you ever ever heard any killer ever say "Wow, it feels better to play killer when I kick pallets ever to slightly faster"? Have you heard any killers say that any of those generic number buffs that BHVR gave killers, makes the killer experience better? Because none of them do. They were just number buffs to make the kill rate. None of those changes were designed to make killers feel better to play.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3333320#Comment_3333320
BHVR has also never said that their goal is only to buff lower-tier killers, so we're talking in the realms of hypotheticals here. Hypothetically, what is being pitched is buffing the lower tier killers to be closer to the top tier, while buffing solo survivor because it obviously needs it, and leaving the current top tier mostly where it is.
That sounds like a good thing to me.
It's not a good thing, because it's trying to make the top tier killers weaker. We were told these survivor changes were supposed to be quality of life changes. Your idea is trying to sneak in an ulterior motive of weakening certain killers.
It would be fine if all killer got quality of life improvements, and lower tier killers additionally got some buffs. But specifically trying to exclude higher tier killers from compensation is a garbage idea.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3333297#Comment_3333297
Okay, but why is that a problem? Is it not good for the game to be in a state where the top tier (which is like, three or four killers, so not even that many) aren't as powerful but everyone else is at the point where they're super viable at most levels of play?
It is good for the game to have at least a few killers that are powerful. BHVR will never make all the killers super viable at high level play, and has never said that was even a goal they were considering.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3333246#Comment_3333246
Those would be fair, sure. Of course, they're not as necessary as the solo queue changes were on the balance side, but if we're looking for pure QoL those would be fine additions that I'd support- I'll take that L, I didn't think of those.
I am curious what you mean by that last part, though. What exactly would the problem be with bringing the balance to a point where all the killers are equally viable? The current top-tier killers are very strong, they hardly need any buffing and other than 'global' QoL so to speak the top tier killers shouldn't benefit too much from any changes made to the killer side. If we enter an era of the game where Nurse and Blight are noticeably weaker compared to now, but you can also get respectable results on any killer on the roster... is that not better?
I'm not saying anyone is aiming for that, for the record, but it seems like an odd boogeyman to bring up. That sounds like a pretty favourable outcome for everyone.
People absolutely are aiming for overall nerfs to the top-tier killers. You can see it in the flood of posts specifically asking for nerfs to top tier killers. You can see in these threads, where people say "buff survivors, then buff specific killers as compensation".
Here's a quote from earlier in this thread "Killers can always be buffed again if necessary (or at the very least some of the weaker ones which need it regardless)". Of course there are a lot of people that think it's cool to just buff trash killers and ignore the top killers, it's not a odd boogeyman.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3333174#Comment_3333174
Sure, but what would those be? What QoL improvements do all killers benefit from, that wouldn't be pretty minor and underwhelming? There's a couple finnicky totem spots for snuffing, that's something that'd be strictly QoL and would benefit everyone, but I'm struggling to think of much else.
If we want QoL improvements it would be far more effective and appreciated to address killer-specific annoyances, which is basically what they've been doing.
1) An FoV slider
2) Quieter chase music
3) More reliable survivor noises (like footsteps), that aren't muffled or deleted if the survivor breaks line of sight
Those are improvements that could affect all killers.
No, it would not be far more effective and appreciated to address killer-specific annoyances. Making improvements to specific low tier killers, does absolutely nothing to address the gameplay on the higher tier killers. The goal of the survivor changes, isn't supposed to be "let's buff survivors, then buff lower tier killers, and leave higher tier killers the same, so it's an overall nerf for the higher tier killers".
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3333165#Comment_3333165
Surely those would be handled on a case by case basis, though, right? And if we're saying killers need individual changes that both buff them and raise their quality of life... isn't that exactly what they have been doing, most recently with Ghostface and Legion?
Survivor QoL changes like this are gonna be quicker and easier to do, I'm certain of it. They uniformly affect all survivor players. Killer changes are necessarily going to take more time.
There needs to be quality of life improvements that affect ALL killers.
Because we all know what a lot of people secretly want. They want survivors as a whole being buffed, but only the low tier killers getting buffed, so overall, the top tier killers are becoming weaker than they were before.
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@IronKnight55 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3333147#Comment_3333147
They need to monitor the changes, then buff killers if needed. The game can't be better balanced without these buffs to solo survivors.
They need to give killers quality of life improvements too. Killers are more than their kill rate %, and they deserve quality of life improvements too. "Just buff killers" could mean generic number buffs, that raise the kill rate, but do absolutely nothing to make the killer experience feel better.
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@IronKnight55 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3332994#Comment_3332994
Agreed. I don't know why people are complaining. Killers will get changes if needed. This is a good thing.
Killers were only promised a kill rate adjustment. BHVR never ever said anything at all about killers ever getting quality of life improvements as compensation. Survivors got a quality of life improvement, and updated additional quality of life improvement, and discussion of future changes...... but killers get absolutely zero words on their player experience. How is that a good thing? Are killers people too, or are they just reduced to their kill rate?
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I would be fine if dead hard and eruption both got severely nerfed at the same time. But it has to be a real actual nerf for dead hard, and not a “we’re going to reduce the overall usage, but make it more powerful for the survivors that can use it well” fake nerf that dead hard got.
This game shouldn’t have a survivor parry mechanic, especially when killer has so many startup frames on lunge attacks and some of their special attacks. Parries are fine in PvP games where everyone involved always has the option to use quick attacks that aren’t parried easily (killers don’t always have the option to quick attack, because they can’t always get into point blank range for multiple seconds), or the game has moves that can’t be parried, or the parry timing is very strict. But dead hard’s 0.5 second parry window, with an almost non existent “missed parry animation”, should be removed completely from the game.
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@Peanits said:
It would definitely be nice to see on paper, but in practice I could see it turning sour pretty quickly.
Groups of two or more make up about half of all Survivors (varies per region). You're probably facing and beating some sort of group in each match, but you may not even realize it because on average, grouped players don't really perform better than ungrouped players. While great Survivors playing together and coordinating can be very powerful, the vast majority of people are just casually hanging out with their friends, no harder to kill than anyone else.
On paper, this sounds like a great thing. You'll see that you're beating groups on a regular basis and it might show how rare these unstoppable squads are, maybe even show that even competent solo players can do really well sometimes. But in practice, that's not how brains work. It's easy to look at a win and go, "I won because I'm good." - you just won what is supposedly a hard match, after all. It's a lot harder to swallow a loss and say, "I lost because I didn't do as well as I could." This isn't something that's exclusive to any side or even Dead by Daylight/gaming as whole. When someone's frustrated, it's very difficult to take a step back and think rationally.
I do fear that showing this would only lead to SWF becoming more of a scapegoat when someone has a rough match (if one was even present). It becomes an easy thing you can point to and go, "Well that's why I lost." - even if you killed multiple groups without any problem in your previous matches. It doesn't make you feel better about your loss, it doesn't make you reflect on what you could have done differently, it just directs your anger to people who are simply playing the game. Features which help you direct your frustration towards other people rather than reflecting on your performance will always be a tough sell.
And to be clear, yes, although they are very rare, there are some super coordinated highly skilled groups out there who could very well be very difficult to catch, and by no means do I mean to deny that. The scapegoat situation I'm referring to are the games that definitely could have played out differently depending on how you performed and the decisions you made.
Short version: Would it be cool to know? Yes. Would it be beneficial? I'm not quite convinced. Ultimately, the time spend working on a feature like this would probably be better spent on balance or new QOL features to make those kinds of matches less frustrating in the first place.
Survivors already do this, by blaming losses on the fact that they are solo q, even though BHVR has repeatedly said that most SWFs don't have a much bigger win rate than solo q.
This means that when killers complain about SWFs, they get told that they usually aren't losing specifically because of SWFs..... But when survivors complain about losing because they are in solo q, BHVR changes the game to make the solo q experience better, instead of repeatedly reminding survivors they aren't losing specifically because they are in solo q.
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I don’t use event offerings because I still have lots of cakes. I super binge this game during the anniversary event, and the cakes carry me to the next anniversary event.
And this game matches me with bully SWFs so much, that I’m stuck playing the same few killers over and over, and they all have cakes. There’s no point in playing killers that can easily get bullied, and I don’t even bother doing dailies on the rest of the killer roster because it’s not worth it.
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@Mandy said:
I will clarify here, we've not said what we will look into fully, just given a hint at ONE thing...please do not make this a "this is getting nerfed so this should as well" discussion, when you do not yet have all the information. Yes we are currently looking at Eruption, pretty sure our Design Team is looking at other perks also.
We were promised by BHVR that we could anticipate the new dead hard, but that never happened. Some survivors are using dead hard ON REACTION to a killer lunge or certain killer powers. That means we can't anticipate dead hard in those situations. Literally waiting for the survivor to use dead hard before making an attack isn't anticipation. That's not what that word means. Telling certain killers to stop using their special attacks, and walk into point blank range of the survivor, then waiting a few seconds in point blank range, then tapping M1.... that's not anticipating dead hard either.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3328333#Comment_3328333
What QoL do you think you need? The patch before this one with the UI brought the kill rate up to 60+%, this info will likely bring it down, and then they'll hopefully individually suit each killer to the changes.
The patch before gave killers generic number buffs, and none of them were quality of life improvements. Have you heard any killers say “wow, it feels so much better to play killers now than I break pallets slightly faster”? BHVR makes it clear they care about the survivor experience. But when it involves killers, the only thing that matters is their kill rate.
Killers are purposely given negative quality of life mechanics, that can be made better.
1) Killer’s terrible FoV is a negative quality of life, and killers can be given an FoV slider.
2) Loud chase music, and a sound occlusion system that can muffle or delete sounds that aren’t in line of sight, is a negative quality of life, and killers can be given quieter chase music and more reliable survivor noises.
BHVR could easily implement these, and then rebalance the kill rate if needed.
And remember that BHVR just gave Nurse new chase music that’s super loud, and full of thud noises, which makes it absolutely miserable to hear survivors, which means on the same patch they release survivor quality of life improvements, they gave Nurse this absolutely frustrating chase music, that wasn’t even mentioned as an intentional nerf, but absolutely is a nerf.