Coffeecrashing
Coffeecrashing
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It’s only really good for sustained map traversal, trying to catch up to a survivor that is 30+ yards away, or for purposely blinking beyond a survivor to zone them.
It’s way less useful for mid range chases than the range addons were. You can’t fully charge a single blink anymore, and it uses both your blinks. And the 2nd blink immediately kicks in, and goes so far, that it’s often hilariously bad trying to pinpoint the 2nd blink to get into lunge range.
I haven’t seen any streamers use it well in mid range chases yet. But it’s hard to find streamers that want to play Nurse anymore, because most of them either stopped playing Nurse, or plays Nurse a lot less than they used to, since the triple nerf happened.
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This is still just sound occlusion, which is supposed to affect game noises, and is supposed to affect more than just survivor noises.
If people think sound occlusion is so bad, then they should ask for it to be removed from ALL sounds in the game. Because asking for sound occlusion to be removed only in the places where it's bad for you, but wanting it to stay in the game in the places where it's good for you, is a really bad double standard.
Spirit's directional audio having sound occlusion is good for the game, as Spirit's entire character design is supposed to revolve around her turning invisible to do mind games, and having overtuned unrestricted directional audio at all times, destroys the whole point of her character design.
And killers that are visible can do mindgames when they don't have line of sight, by turning their camera to hide their red stain, and it's well known that visible killers can do this. And giving Spirit audio occlusion puts her on the same footing as visible killers, because if you don't have line of sight on a killer, then it shouldn't matter if they are visible or not, since you wouldn't have been able to see them anyway if they were hiding their red stain.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3357232#Comment_3357232
Why would you wish that?
Blight players need to pick one....
1) Bump logic is the strongest thing Blight has, so "good players" wouldn't notice if hug tech was removed because he can still bump.
2) Removing the secondary collision detection would be a real nerf to Blight, because he actually does rely on object sliding, and it's massively disingenuous to say "bump logic" is the only important thing, when Blight also heavily relies on "slide logic" too.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3357232#Comment_3357232
Remind me what the M2 bug is/was again? There are way too many bugs in this game's history to keep track.
When the secondary collision detection was released, if Blight tried to start a rush, while up against a wall, and looking directly at the wall.... then the "high speed rush" animations would happen, but Blight would get stuck in place and not actually move anywhere. And when the rush finally timed out, he wouldn't be able to use his M2 power, and Blight would need to press M1 to "reset the bug" so he can use M2 again.
BHVR fixed this M2 bug by stopping Blight from getting stuck in place, and they stopped him from getting stuck in place by allowing him to slide instead. This would later be called hug tech.
And this is where things get complicated. BHVR intentionally added hug tech to the game in order to fix the M2 bug. But hug tech itself is considered unintended because BHVR doesn't want Blight to have it.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/366068/eta-on-blight-hug-tech
I won't try to justify hug tech, but I will tell you why this Blight's collision system is so wonky.
Unlike most other collision systems in the game, Blight's velocity and camera are not parallel. You can go straight but look slightly to the right while still going straight. This becomes more pronounced if you use Adrenaline Vial where your turning is significantly reduced but you can still look around.
Why does this matter? In order to prevent you from bumping into things off-screen and help you fit into tight doorways, Blight's collision system is partially tied to his camera. Obviously, it's not entirely linked to his camera; if you look right when you're about to hit a pallet, you'll still hit the pallet. But if you look down while turning into a corner, you'll notice you can turn just a little bit more than you would otherwise.
Because of this disconnect between the velocity, the camera, and general object collisions, Blight becomes a slippery boy. How does this factor into hug tech at all? I'm not entirely sure but I estimate it's something like this: By looking down, you essentially trick the system into thinking there is no obstacle. Since you're hugging it, by the time your camera snaps up at the beginning of a rush, you're already ignoring the collision. Fixing this, while trying to preserve Blight's ability to manipulate his collision (which is intended to some extent) I imagine is pretty difficult.
Hug Tech happened, when BHVR tried to fix the M2 bug that happened when they released his secondary collision detection. Trying to "just remove hug tech" might just result in the M2 bug coming back, because the secondary collision detection still isn't working as intended, and is probably still full of bugs.
They should just remove the secondary collision detection, so they can successfully overnerf the top 3 killers. They gave Spirit directional audio, and gave Nurse super loud chase music.... why stop there? Just get rid of Blight's secondary collision detection so he can join in the nerf party.
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What would be the point in BHVR releasing more statistics? The last statistics said that NONE of the killers were overperforming overall, and NONE of the killers were overperforming at the top 5%, and yet we still had a bunch of people complain that certain killers were uncounterable and needed nerfs.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3356835#Comment_3356835
I would agree. That’s why they can’t fix one without fixing the other.
But they don't need to fix it. We're in the middle of a "good things for survivors" marathon. BHVR could easily remove Blight's secondary collision detection to fix hug tech and overnerf him, and survivors would be happy. And Blight would feel miserable to play, which is exactly what BHVR did when they changed Nurse's chase music.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3356811#Comment_3356811
The hug tech is easier to counter than strict bump logic. But survivors don’t wanna listen to that.
Completely removing hug tech and object sliding, but not fixing Blight's bump hitbox, will hurt Blight a lot more than help him.
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@HugTechLover said:
It’s not gonna get fixed until his collision issues get fixed that affect his performance. I wouldn’t count on it happening anytime soon. It’s been so long.
So I would suggest you learn the very easy counter to it.
I’m pretty sure survivors spin and moonwalk for their own enjoyment no? Yea we won’t talk about that. Only counts for blight players right?
I'm honestly surprised BHVR hasn't removed his secondary collision detection.
No secondary collision = no object sliding = no hug tech = survivors can counter his power much easier. BHVR wouldn't need to rework Blight's code to actually fix his collision. They would just need to remove his secondary collision detection, that was created after Blight was released, to make survivors happy, at the low low cost of Blight's quality of life crashing into the ground.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3355681#Comment_3355681
It's the "press E to be immune to special attack lunges for a good half a second and get a huge speed boost" part that makes me treat it as half a nerf.
Against every telegraphed attack in the game, it got stronger between the cooldowns and speed boost. Even if you perfectly timed it before, you might move INTO the hitbox before the attack was over, or you'd still be right next to the Killer.
Exactly this. The perk is weaker for people that don't have good reaction time, but it's an absolute buff for survivors with good reaction time, and can do things like dead hard on reaction to a killer lunge. And the pick rate went down, because some survivors have mediocre reaction time, or mediocre game latency, and the perk is worse for those specific survivors.
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We've still been waiting for an ETA, for multiple years now, for BHVR to fix Blight's major collision issues that have been happening since they raised his camera view.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3355312#Comment_3355312
The design of characters change over time, it just happens. BHVR has a vision for each character, and when they realize that "hey, this vision isnt going to work out" or "maybe this design isnt that good" they change it. People need to realize this, I mean look at Tinkerer for example, it was suppose to be "Billy honing their tools to cause as much harm as possible" but BHVR moved away from that idea because it just didnt work for some Killers (and was problematic).
If we're going to go by that logic, then survivors should never complain about any killers ever, because "BHVR has a vision for each character".
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3355234#Comment_3355234
You are forgetting a few things here:
- The audio fades in when they start phasing, it does not immediately start playing the phase audio as we normally hear it, meaning there is a short period in which phasing audio does not play at all or is toned down to where most people cannot hear it. Paired with Speed addons, this can make getting hits really easy on short loops, and leave Survivors less time to react on larger loops.
- You really do not consider the fact that people are human and we are bound to make mistakes. Furthermore, this isnt even considering all the people with hearing impairments, Ive seen some really cracked players but they struggle to hear game audio in general, and you arent going against a Spirit every match so it's not like their MMR is tanking that much either.
- Even if you have the brute force a hit, the movement speed is extremely deadly. Look at DBD's history of top tier Killers and see that most of them were for mobility in combination with lethality, and Spirit has both of those things. And since we are on the topic of addons, Furin removes directional phasing if you start phasing when a Survivor isnt in your Terror Radius OR if they are Oblivious/you are Undetectable; both of which are options you can use if you want old Spirit back.
There is a reason why Spirit is ranked so highly and is still considered a top tier Killer, and why some perks are restricted/held back (Hubris and Starstruck most notably).
None of this addresses the fact that her character design is supposed to revolve around her turning invisible so she can try to go for mind games, and your solutions involve brute forcing through speed or brute forcing through short bursts.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
I would say the audio just brings in a new element of gameplay for her. You do not know her exact position, just a relative direction, which means you can mindgame using the audio to force people into positions where you get hits. Overall I think it makes Spirit a lot more interactive to play as and against.
Also you need to remember that Spirit is suppose to be slower when not phasing, but faster while phasing, which depending on the addons it can leave the Survivor in a guessing game as to what they are going against and how to play around it. The yellow Duration and Speed addons are basically pseudo-Iridescent in terms of strength, and even their Brown addons are really damn good.
Her directional audio tells you the exact relative direction, and there's a loudness component that tells you how far away she is. And the directional audio is enough information, that if a survivor drops a pallet, and Spirit has to spend a bit of time to loop around the pallet, the survivor absolutely can tell when and if Spirit is looping around the pallet, and even knows which direction Spirit is looping around the pallet.
Being able to brute force through the directional audio means you aren't really using mind games, and instead you're just brute forcing through, either with the ring addon, or because the loop is so short and unsafe that Spirit can actually feint going in a direction and quickly switch directions.
And the audio is much more of a massive quality of life decrease, than it is a "new element of gameplay". And besides, that phase is sort of meaningless anyway. Just because something is new, doesn't mean it is useful. And in Spirit's case, she would be so much better without the directional audio, that calling it a "new element of gameplay" is insulting.
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@ProudRinMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3354985#Comment_3354985
Couldn’t have worded it better than that ✅
And it still feels really awful that the general direction for this game seems to be “we want to increase survivor quality of life, and we want to actively decrease killer quality of life”
If BHVR had changed some of Spirit’s numbers around, that would have been a performance nerf, but giving Spirit long ranged massively accurate directional audio, that works even if the survivor doesn’t have line of sight and therefore wouldn’t have seen Spirit even if she were visible, is a massive quality of life decrease. It’s the same with Nurse’s new super loud chase music, that’s so loud and full of thud noises that survivors become instantly silent when they break one of sight. That was a massive quality of life decrease too. Why does Spirit and Nurse need nerfs that are also massively quality of life decreases? How is that fun or fair to the people that want to play those killers?
It’s fine if BHVR wants to nerf or buff certain killers, but nerfing killers so they are miserable to play, feels awful.
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@Mandy said:
An argument appears to be brewing here, I will do my best to clarify.
I do not have reports on survivor audio being bugged - I have seen reports re sound occlusion which is by design. Survivors are not invisible, there's blood and scratchmarks that also help to track.
However, there is a report and this is confirmed as a bug re Spirits audio occlusion, this should not be occuring - Spirit was given directional sound for a reason - she's invisible, we don't want to go back to the days when the only option against Spirit was a 50/50 guess.
I don’t understand why Spirit shouldn’t have directional audio and sound occlusion at the same time. I thought the whole point of Spirit’s character design, and the whole point of her turning invisible, was that she’s supposed to have potential mind games when she’s invisible.
The directional audio wasn’t even a popular requested nerf. People wanted her to have a much more telegraphed “I’m phasing” thing, so Spirit couldn’t do the “I’m standing still and survivors can’t tell if I’m using my power”, and BHVR somehow turned that into massively accurate directional audio, which defeats the purpose of making Spirit invisible.
And sound occlusion should be fine, because if survivors can’t see a killer, then the fact that she’s invisible shouldn’t be a factor, since all the other killers would be able to do the same “50/50” situations if they hide their red stain by turning their camera.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3354083#Comment_3354083
Because it was a horrible mechanic that should never have been part of a perk?
Dead Hard being an on demand third health state is a horrible mechanic that should never have been part of the game, but we’re still dealing with it.
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@ProudRinMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3354823#Comment_3354823
No, both need to be addressed at the same time. If BHVR is able to fix Spirit’s audio not emitting a directional audio, then they sure as hell can do the same for survivor audio. If survivors want Spirit’s directional whoosh to be extremely clear and precise, why is it only THEM that get that luxury ? Why can’t the survivors’ audio be looked at to make it more clearer/precise for the Spirit player to track? The whole reason Spirit got nerfed was to make her « Fairer » in the majority’s eyes for the other side and it’s not fair that survivors’ issues are prioritized without doing the same for killer if they are choosing the «being fair for both sides « route. It’s hypocrisy really when they claim that both sides should have equal information and it shows through the players/Devs’s actions that they shrug off most killer issues. ( if not all )
many players are ironically wanting what was complained about old Spirit AKA:
« no equal informatiom/the other side gaining more info than the other «
and it’s contradictory that many « said « that both sides should have the same amount of information and yet keep on shrugging off the issues that hinder Spirit’s tracking and focus on wanting to make survivors be able to track Spirit effortlessly whereas the Spirit player can’t do that due to COUNTLESS audio issue that aren’t acknowledged/not thought of as being an issue. It’s stupid really 🙄
as i side note, as much as i hate Spirit having directional audio, it still should be fixed because it’s not an official change to Spirit to have non-directional audio sadly.
If BHVR doesn’t want to remove sound occlusion from the game, then Spirit should absolutely keep her sound occlusion.
Changes don’t need to be official, announced, or even intended in order to be kept in the game. Survivors absolutely have unintended mechanics that were eventually accepted into the game, and Spirit’s directional audio was such a giant over nerf, that she really needs something like sound occlusion on her audio, because it’s a garbage character design if Spirit has to suffer sound occlusion when the survivors are invisible to her, but the survivors get perfect directional audio of Spirit all the time.
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Dead Hard needs a massive nerf, because it’s very oppressive against some killers, but almost useless against some killers…… and eruption was nerfed because it was very oppressive against some survivors, but almost useless against some survivors.
It’s the same thing. Dead Hard needs to be heavily nerfed so it’s not as oppressive against certain killers.
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@Quizzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/365685/kill-dead-hard-already
Sorry hun. But dh is just fun to use. Its that high risk high reward playstyle that alot of ppl are attracted to. They can gut it even more but if there is a timed activation still attached to this perk, it will still be the most used perk. And its not consistent whatsoever as it entirely depends on the interaction of sirvivor and killer including ping which eruption is not. So there is a reason eruption is being touched as higher priority.
Dead Hard is a zero risk perk. In order for dead hard to be high risk, it would have to do something like root the survivor in place for 2 seconds if it misses, so the killer can easily hit the survivor during the missed recovery. Or it has to do something else that places the survivor at a real risk if dead hard misses.
The fact that so many survivors purposely dead hard towards a pallet, because they know they can throw a pallet very quickly even if the dead hard misses, shows the perk isn’t high risk.
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I will be dropping it from all my builds. Why should I bother wasting time to kick generators, if I don’t have a strong gen kicking perk anymore? I’m better off just going back to pain res, which is much more camping friendly, since I don’t need to leave a hooked survivor to kick generators.
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@Phantom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3354227#Comment_3354227
Agreed! Still nice that you can apply it to multiple gens, and more importantly that the devs did listen! ^^
The only people the devs listened to are the survivors. Eruption is still going to be useless, and killers would be better off going back to pain res.
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The incapacitate was the good part of the perk. This change still makes the perk trash, and it’s not worth the time it takes to kick the generator. This is even worse though, because it gives the ILLUSION that the perk might be usable, which it’s still not worth using anymore.
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This sounds like the same sound occlusion mechanic that deletes survivor footsteps, survivor noises, and boon noises, when there's no line of sight.
Killers have been dealing with this garbage sound occlusion for an extremely long time. Why should survivors get a free pass out of it? Sound occlusion should either be fixed for both sides, or it should cause both sides to suffer.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3352867#Comment_3352867
Basically when she is behind a wall all directional phase audio is gone and replaced with the old non directional one. So at a lot of loops she’s basically the old spirit again
It's just the same sound occlusion that survivor sounds have been using for a long time. If someone thinks sound occlusion is so bad, then they ask for it to be removed from killer AND survivor noises.
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@GannTM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3352974#Comment_3352974
That isn’t fair to say. Spirit is one of the strongest killers in the game with or without the sound, but the directional sound makes her balanced. You really have no options against her when she doesn’t have directional audio.
Spirit is kind of trash when sound occlusion isn't affecting her directional audio. I should have known you were just baiting people, yet again, so you can tell us how awesome Spirit is. We all dropped her when the directional audio was implemented, because it was too much of an overnerf. She needs sound occlusion on her directional audio to be playable. If the sound occlusion is dropped, then people will just stop playing her again.
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@GannTM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3351461#Comment_3351461
Did something change recently? I’ve barely kept up because most of my attention has been on Valorant and football lately, but I keep hearing Spirit is back to her pre-nerf self without knowing much detail.
Spirit's directional audio uses sound occlusion, just like how survivors sounds have been using sound occlusion for a very long time.
And even though killers have been told for a very long time that sound occlusion "isn't very bad" and we need to "get good", now that it's affecting survivors it's a "big deal" and "should be killswitched". I think sound occlusion should either be completely removed from the game, or it should stay on Spirit, so that survivors and killers can both suffer its awfulness.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3352640#Comment_3352640
Eh, I don't really think Dead Hard near windows is as much of a problem, so I'm kind of ambivalent on that restriction being there too. It wouldn't hurt or anything, but DH at windows is dramatically easier to counter and not quite as useful even if you swing into it since it forces a slow vault, so... not as necessary. If that's how they chose to implement it, though, no complaints from me.
As for people still using it, of course they would, they'd use it to be more aggressive in chase and take extra risks. Dead Hard with my changes would still allow you to bail yourself out of a deadzone if your timing is good, and it'd still work against certain killer powers without being quite as powerful. It would be a perk with a clear niche, but people would hopefully start considering other Exhaustion perks for something other than what Dead Hard is meant to provide.
I'm not aiming to change the "third health state" possibility, because I like the idea of that being your reward for taking risks. If the risk breaks against you, rather than in your favour, you not only get no extra health state, you're downed. That should be a meaningful risk, and that's why I'm taking aim at the things that prevent it from being so.
DH once per match would, again, make nobody ever run it. There'd be no niche for a perk like that. It's just a Styptic Agent but worse, and taking up a whole perk slot. Unless you mean old Dead Hard once per match, and call me crazy but I think an uncounterable and overpowered effect is bad even if you only get to use it once.
I would be fine with old dead hard that only worked once per match, because I honestly think old dead and and new dead hard are both overpowered, and I honestly don't think new dead hard is "more fair" than old dead hard.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3352587#Comment_3352587
Okay, I wasn't sure up until this point if you meant literally waiting it out, or you were being hyperbolic in referring to baiting it out. Neither's bad, I just wasn't sure which one it is, until now.
So: You don't just stand there and wait. You flick your camera upwards if that's all you have, or you fake your power animation if that'd work- Wraith is the best for this, but there's a number of other killers that can do some kind of animation in addition to the camera trick that'd bait out Dead Hard from twitchy survivors, and that show non-twitchy survivors you'll try and bait it out- which means you can then hit them earlier to take them by surprise.
That's why I don't really like the idea of even reworking Dead Hard, let alone nuking it. There's actual interaction in the way this perk functions after its rework in 6.1.0, and I don't like the idea of taking away depth from the game like that. If DH is being used outside of the scenarios where it's actually a problem, the ones we both agree on like the pallet game, there's actually some back and forth in the way both parties engage with the perk. The only other Exhaustion perk that's true of is Head On, and that perk is basically just a meme.
I do remember people complaining about NOED. They were wrong then about it rewarding bad killers for losing, so it's not super relevant to this discussion.
We tried nerfing it. It worked out super well and downgraded the perk from "blatantly overpowered monstrosity" to "strong in general and really annoying in some scenarios". I'd like to see that trajectory pushed forward so the perk can actually be considered "pretty healthy overall".
Flicking your camera doesn't work on some survivors, because if you aren't in point blank range, then they are waiting for the audio cue that happens when you start a lunge attack.
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@jesterkind said:
While I do agree that Dead Hard could use another few small nerfs to curb its problematic elements, like forcing a hit into it at pallets and in a more general sense just to lower its pickrate, I have never understood the argument about how killers have become conditioned to respect it before it's even in play, because... if you don't like respecting it before you've seen it, just don't?
You don't have to wait. You can just swing on your first chase and see if they use Dead Hard, you're not gonna lose the match on the back of that unless you're already doing absolutely terribly and the first chase has lasted like four generators. Even if you do choose to wait and see (or more accurately, choose to bait and see), how is that different to survivors letting go of a generator as a hook happens to check for Pain Res? It's a slight loss in efficiency to check what your opponent is bringing, and to deny them the full value if they do have it.
If it's not bad design there, I don't think it's inherently bad design here, either. The ability to respect it before you see it is clearly fine, and there isn't anything actually forcing you to do so. If you don't wanna respect it, don't; swing instantly on your first chase, and then if they use DH, great, you know now and can play around it. If they don't, you've got a down, no harm no foul.
Why do people keep assuming every killer wants to swing as their attack? Some killers want to use their power, but their power is so telegraphed that survivors can dead hard it on reaction. With some killers, we are being told we should just completely stop using our power, and walk into point blank range so we can quick M1, but wait, because we're also told not to swing in point blank range because we're supposed to step back so we don't get 360'ed. So we're supposed to simultaneously be in point blank range, but also step back so we're not in point blank range.
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@Predated said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3333797#Comment_3333797
Basically, what you say is that a survivor shouldnt have accurate view of where the killer is? Thats not a punishment, thats intended gameplay.
The same thing goes the other way around. Killers have a more accurate view of where the survivor is and where they are going. Bad ping would mean that a survivor goes one direction at one moment, and then is completely the opposite direction later on. If the killer has bad ping, and the survivor has good ping, then you have a similar situation of the killer having good ping and the survivor having bad ping.
Server validation doesnt punish anyone in particular, it just removed the exploit that bad ping killers and survivors had.
In the case of dead hard, server validation punishes killers, because lunges and many killer powers have way more startup frames than dead hard. Server validation is only fair when both sides have a similar startup time for their abilities.
In the case of dead hard, the validation should capture when a killer taps M1, starts to hold M1, or immediately after a killer does their M2 power….. or dead hard needs to have a lot more startup frames so it’s comparable to killer startup frames.
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@Rickprado said:
Hi guys! Hope you all are doing fine.
So, i've been thinking about the Dead Hard in the current Meta (with the current Endurance status) and thinking of ways it could be changed.
My idea is: instead of being an exaustion perk, what if Dead Hard becomes a perk like Decisive Strike, one which you can use after being hooked?
After being unhooked, for 80s, you can press "E" and get a 1s endurance window to tank a hit. Similar to Mettle of Man, its not an endurance effect, but a effect that can prevent you from going down. After 80s or after you took a hit while using the perk, the perk deactivates and gets active again next time you are hooked. This way, Dead Hard and Off The Record could be used together without the need to mend. And people could combo DH with other exaustion perks.
I think its a fair trade.
I know this is a very sensitive topic, so please, be polite on comments, ok?
If you want to allow it to combo with other second chance perks just like decisive strike, then it also should deactivate for the rest of the trial if it is used, just like decisive strike.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3351798#Comment_3351798
But it's not a bug that affects her play constantly. Like all the other sound occlusion bugs, it's weirdly variable and dependent on so many parts of the map. Nor does it completely remove information (not hearing anything in some situations is itself information).
I'd rather this be used as an incentive to fix the actual damn problem rather than going "well, guess we turn off this Killer until we can make it ignore the rest of the way sound is handled". Especially because there's no telling how long it'll take to fix a bug in a weird exception to a buggy subsystem.
Yeah. People really should be asking for BHVR to remove sound occlusion from the game for all sounds. Because asking BHVR to remove sound occlusion when it hurts survivors, but wanting BHVR to keep sound occlusion when it hurts killers, is such a bad double standard.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3351668#Comment_3351668
It’s not only region, but MMR range as well, apparently.
I don’t understand how it could be based on MMR, unless it gives each player an overall MMR level. I’m fairly sure my Myers is in garbage MMR compared to my Blight, but I don’t ever see the incentives change if I switch from Blight to Myers?
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@egg_ said:
Coincidentally there has been an uprise of spirits right when a bug giving her insane advantage showed up - she's basically pre nerf spirit again
In the past few days I've faced more than 10 spirits when usually shed appear once every few days. It gets boring you know?
Can't really blame people for being salty. Can't they just kill switch her already?
Survivor noises use sound occlusion too. Do you think survivors should be kill switched? Or is sound occlusion only a problem when it hurts survivors, but it's ok when it hurts killers?
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3351471#Comment_3351471
Maybe the horrible sound occlusion will be fixed for everyone, rather than just trying to sort out Spirit's case specifically.
Absolutely this. And killers have been told for years that sound occlusion is fine, but when it finally happens to survivors, now it's a big deal and something needs to be done with it.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3350745#Comment_3350745
Man you just can't stop yourself from continually trying to make out like there's sides in some kind of conflict here...
So, when a bunch of players demanded massive nerfs for Nurse, that wasn't a hard sell. She needed them, and she's in a healthier spot now, sans her chase music. When a bunch of players demanded massive nerfs for Eruption, that in general isn't a hard sell because it was blatantly overpowered, but the specific changes it's slated to get are because they're too much. We already went over this, I'm not sure why it's being brought up again.
Seems like we've come to an agreement about a rework being reasonable where "burying" isn't, at least!
BHVR turned this into an us vs them situation, when they refused to comment at all about killer quality of life improvements and accessibility changes for over a year. BHVR could easily just say "hey, we're focusing on survivor quality of life improvements and accessibility changes, but we'll eventually do the same for killers". But we don't even get that! We get absolutely zero communication on whether or not they ever plan on helping killers with their quality of life and accessibility issues. For all we know, the plan is to look at the kill rate after a few months, and give killers generic buffs like "2% longer attack lunge", that moves the kill rate back where it should be, but doesn't help the killer experience at all.
Is this really a unreasonable request? Is it really unreasonable to request for BHVR to make a simple comment that they will eventually get to killer quality of life improvements and accessibility changes? They don't even need to commit on a timeframe. Just a simple "we care about you too" post. Because we can't even get that.
Meanwhile, survivors get an improved HUD, an additional buff to the HUD, promises of a visual terror radius, overnerfed nurse, and overnerfed eruption.... and just silence for killers. Did the eruption nerf really need to happen before the next major perk change patch, so it could happen at the same time as survivor perk changes? Is anyone concerned that I'm getting 10 second killer queues in the middle of the day, which used to be completely unheard of?
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3350735#Comment_3350735
Well, first of all, it should be acknowledged that this is a totally new argument and not the one you were making a second ago, but to address it--
The most you could say with that reasoning is that Dead Hard should be reworked, and that's assuming everything you're saying is 100% accurate and beyond contradiction. What it doesn't do is justify saying the perk should be intentionally made worthless, because that's a very hard sell; outside of last-resort big overhauls for very specific purposes, like 6.1.0 was, there's basically no good reason to ever do that.
Total rework for a new, viable, useful effect is something I wouldn't exactly personally call for, but wouldn't object to either. That's a fair and reasonable angle to take. Calling for it to be buried out of self-admitted spite over changes made to ""your side"" of the game isn't.
So when a bunch of survivors demanded massive nerfs for eruption and Nurse, that wasn't a hard sell... but when killers demand massive nerfs for dead hard, that is a hard sell?
Dead hard needs to be reworked so it's not a third health state, on demand, that can be used multiple times per match. And the perk itself is a total mess, because it's so overly reliant on game latency and extremely fast survivor reflexes, that its value can range from absolutely useless, to completely oppressive. The perk shouldn't be unreliable garbage if the killer has bad ping, and it also shouldn't be completely oppressive against certain killers when the game latency and survivor reflexes are both great.
So yes, a rework of dead hard would be fine, but a rework really should focus on making the perk more useful when the game latency isn't perfect, and the rework really should focus on making the perk less useful when the game latency and survivor reflexes are both great.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3350709#Comment_3350709
Again, there aren't sides here. There are individual commenters with bias, but the changes BHVR implement ultimately still just boil down to being changes to the same game.
BHVR are set to overnerf Eruption, yes. That would be a bad thing. If it goes through, and they do overnerf Eruption (reminding me to make a post about it, actually, it's kinda buried under the new chapter stuff understandably), that would mean they made a bad decision. It's not exactly helpful, productive, or reasonable to start clamouring for them to make a second bad decision in the name of balancing it out- because that won't balance it out, it'll just add more bad decisions to the pile.
Burying dead hard would be good for the game though. When perk counterplay involves telling certain killers to completely stop using their powers, then you have a miserable perk that needs to be buried. When perk counterplay involves telling all killers to completely stop using their lunge, then you have a miserable perk that needs to be buried.
Honestly, the only nerf suggestion people made so far that would be good enough, is having the perk deactivated for the rest of the trial if it's successfully used. The other suggestions still don't fix the fact that new dead hard is way more miserable than old dead hard, for killers like Trickster and Huntress. And there was a time on the PTB, where survivors couldn't throw a pallet until 0.5 seconds after a missed dead hard, and there was so much complaining that BHVR removed the 0.5 second missed recovery time.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3350636#Comment_3350636
I feel like you're missing the point. Nothing should be slammed with enough nerfs to make it unplayable, and Nurse's chase music should be adjusted if it's that big of a problem. Though, obviously, just losing the OP stuff didn't even knock her out of the S tier, so there's no reason to complain about the blink attacks or addons.
You aren't at war with survivor players. There aren't actually sides. The game just gets changes, and they can be good changes or bad changes. One bad change doesn't mean we should start demanding more bad changes.
You’re missing the point that BHVR absolutely did overnerf eruption and Nurse. We are no longer discussion if BHVR should be doing these things. These things are already happening and set in stone, and now it’s survivors turn for overnerfs.
And let’s be honest that when survivors say “I didn’t want eruption nerfed :that bad:” most of them are really saying “I don’t want dead hard nerfed, so I’m pretending to care about killer perks”. Survivors really aren’t making an effort to petition BHVR to overturn the eruption nerf, because deep down they wanted eruption to be buried. Did you see what some of the survivor suggestions for eruption were? Some of the suggestions were completely destroying the perk. This is what survivors wanted as a whole, and it’s what they got.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3350598#Comment_3350598
Well, I commend you for having a consistent position, then, sincerely.
However, I disagree. Dead Hard shouldn't be butchered, and neither should Eruption, they should both be given tweaks that amend their problematic areas. Eruption just needed the Incapacitated removed, there was no reason to mess with its regression numbers, and Dead Hard just needs to not work at pallets the way it does + maybe give less of a speed boost so survivors can't use it to break chase.
That, or they should both get 100% different but still viable effects. There's very rarely a good excuse for butchering perks.
Nurse just got triple nerfed, and now she's so miserable to play that I stopped playing her even though she was one of my main characters for a long time. But I don't see survivors complaining that she didn't deserve the new chase music, that's so loud and full of thud noises, that survivors instantly go silent when they break line of sight.
And that is BHVR's new attitude. When survivors complained about eruption and Nurse, new BHVR slammed them full of nerfs instead of taking one step at a time. BHVR could have easily just have changed Nurse's M1 to a special attack, without slamming the addons and slamming the chase music. But they didn't. They decided to just triple nerf her instead.
So now it's fair to demand equal treatment of the survivor role, and for their most obnoxious perk to get an extreme nerf.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
Ome thing I don't get is the people saying that DH was buffed... Like I'm sorry Dead Hard 4 Distance was like 6 months ago there is no way you've all forgotten the complete and utter uncounterable E to Outplay bullshit we all put up with for years.
Though tbh playing on Garden of Joy reminds me of 2017/2018 Groaning Storehouse in the worst possible way 🕳️👩🏻🦯
I don't get why people refuse to acknowledge that BHVR replaced one problem with another. The endurance effect didn't exist before the dead hard change, but you are implying killers should have predicted the future and complained about the endurance effect before it was added to the game.
Of course people complained about dead hard for distance, instead of the endurance effect, when the perk didn't have an endurance effect.
And the endurance effect is a buff in some scenarios because it tanks a hit instead of allowing attacks and powers to phase through the survivor, and the endurance effect is a buff in some scenarios because it gives the survivor a huge speed boost when it successfully triggers.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3350579#Comment_3350579
Do you think, sincerely, that the nerf Eruption is slated to get is good for the game? Is that an attitude you want carried through towards more perks, killer and survivor both?
This isn't rhetorical, for the record, I'm actually curious. In your view, is the Eruption nerf healthy?
I honestly think the double standard of the way killers and survivors are treated, is much more damaging to the game, than how one side is treated by itself. And since I want dead hard dead and buried, it's fair for me to be ok with eruption being dead and buried.
And when I first heard of the meta shakeup, dead hard was the only perk I was looking forward to getting "shaken up", but that never happened. I'm still dealing with it every game. And I'm still being told that certain killers I play should just stop using their powers, and walk into point blank range instead, and that is unfun, especially when a killer has a slower movement speed because they are expected to use their power in chase.
And the official reason for the eruption nerf was that it was way more oppressive against some survivors than other survivors. And dead hard is the exact same situation for killers. Dead hard is absolutely miserable for killers like Trickster and Huntress, but the perk is an absolutely joke for Legion since they can just feral frenzy any survivor that isn't in deep wounds, and then use there frenzy movement speed to counter the speed boost the survivor gets.
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@DwightDwigt said:
Currently, although some players are able to make use of Reassurance, the 6 meter range limit largely defeats the entire point of the perk.
In most instances, if you're within 6 meters of a hooked survivor, you might as well just go for the rescue.
Also, it's a no-brainer that you shouldn't have to go partway down the basement stairs in order to be able to activate this perk on a survivor hooked in the basement.
Extending the range of Reassurance would synergize beautifully with Kindred and allow Reassurance the full utility it deserves.
The point of the perk is that it's supposed to discourage face camping, not camping in general. It's tended for a survivor to be very close to the hooked survivor, to offer the killer a different target instead of face camping.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3350332#Comment_3350332
I don't think I really need to grace the idea that any perk, including Eruption, should be intentionally left dead and buried with an answer. This isn't 6.1.0, there's no reason for that.
As for it being the number 1 Exhaustion perk, I touched on that in my post. I don't think it's number 1 because it's the strongest - in fact, personally, I don't think it is the strongest at all - but because it's something you use aggressively. The only problem with that, outside of its use at pallets, is that it's also pretty good at letting you break chase too, so forcing it further into its niche should lead to fewer people taking it.
Side note, it's clearly silly to hinge the success of the meta shakeup on one perk. If that's the case, we already achieved our meta shakeup, survivors don 't run Iron Will anymore.
But eruption was nerfed so badly that it is dead and buried, so dead hard should get the same treatment. The most complained about killer perk got buried, so let's do the same with the most complained about survivor perk.
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Dead Hard should be completely nerfed, so it's dead and buried. Dead hard should be nerfed with the same energy and intensity as eruption. We were promised a meta shakeup, and dead hard is by far the most complained about survivor perk.
The dead hard change clearly wasn't harsh enough, because it's still the number 1 exhaustion perk. It's time to mega nerf the perk, so we can finally get the meta shakeup we were promised.
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@ratcoffee said:
they said they're looking at a solution for faster BP spending which they implied would come up before the next anniversary update; hopefully that means auto-leveling (or at least something similar) within the next few months. not perfect but at least they're coming!
would love to see all those other ones as well
I don't understand why they need to look into a solution. They can just have an option to turn off bloodweb animations, and have the bloodweb nodes instantly fill in when you click them. And when a bloodweb is completely filled in, the next bloodweb instantly appears.
That's all they need to do for a first pass. Just an option to remove the animations. We don't need to use complicated math, or try to figure out some complex AI solution that autofills bloodwebs.
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@FMG15 said:
You probably all have the feeling of not wanting to play the game whenever the killer brings a midwich offering and the survivor a GoJ offerings. It's just not fun to play on maps over and over again that favors the other side quite heavily. And it's also quite obvious that both sides mainly bring offerings to have an easier game. Now what would be my idea to make map offerings less annoying? By making them do the opposite. Rather than increasing the chance to get sent to a realm it should decrease the chance to get sent to a realm. That way no one could use map offerings to get an advantage and you can select which map you want to avoid especially those that are really terrible to play on (I'm looking at you GoJ and Midwich).
But there is a reason this is not happening and that's justified: Achievements. It would take an incredible amount of time until you can get the Outbreak Breakout achievement without the usage of map offerings. So my idea is obviously not going to work in practice. The only really working solution is to keep balancing the maps to make it fair for the other side as well.
Or we can delete map offerings, and admit that it's ok if it takes people longer to earn achievements.
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@legacycolt said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3349482#Comment_3349482
I would recommend to create a bug report if you find any bugs in dead by daylight. If players have the same issue like you, they will vote it up and the devs can take action.
This is how sound occlusion works in the game. BHVR purposely made a mechanic, that feels absolutely awful for killers, on purpose, for the sake of game balance. And now survivors get to share in this awfulness. The sound occlusion mechanic should be completely deleted from the game.
But if BHVR doesn't want to delete sound occlusion for killers, then I hope survivors are stuck with this sound occlusion too, so they can understand how frustrating this mechanic is.
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This sounds like the same sound occlusion mechanic that deletes survivor footsteps, survivor noises, and boon noises, when there's no line of sight.
Killers have been dealing with this garbage sound occlusion for an extremely long time. Why should survivors get a free pass out of it? Sound occlusion should either be fixed for both sides, or it should cause both sides to suffer.