Coffeecrashing
Coffeecrashing
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619160#Comment_3619160
But they can no longer force the killer to grab them off a gen.
A survivor jumping inside a locker doesn't help their team, and if the body-blocking is an issue you can slug them.
It's still weaponizing the perk. Survivors are purposely weaponizing the perk, and that needs to be fixed. The actual anti-tunnel part can stay. And super honestly, if people really truly want to use DS as an anti-tunnel perk, then they shouldn't care if the weaponizing part gets nerfed.
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619160#Comment_3619160
It can't be weaponised because the killer just has to M1 once and not pick up to make the survivors lose more time than the killer does.
The fact that survivors were purposely bobdyblocking, purposely baiting the killer, and purposely trying to get the killer to eat a DS, means the survivors were weaponizing the perk. And why would you care if the weaponizing part gets nerfed? You obviously would never try to use DS offensively, right? Because if you don't, then you shouldn't care if the weaponizing part gets nerfed, because it wouldn't affect you at all, right?
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619008#Comment_3619008
But DS was the primary anti-tunnel tool, and its current state isn't doing anything. The amount of tunneling recently is unreasonable, something has to be done about.
Reverting DS is important because many killers didn't want to eat the stun. That helps a lot.
DS was also a highly weaponized perk, where if the killer wasn't tunneling, then the survivor would try to force the killer into eating the DS. Yes, it happened a lot, and the "conspicuous actions" change didn't stop people from weaponizing the perk.
If the DS stun duration gets buffed, then BHVR needs to somehow nerf the perk to stop people from weaponizing it. If a survivor is trying to bodyblock because they have DS, that should deactivate the perk. Stepping into a locker should also deactivate the perk. Basically anything survivors did to weaponize the perk needs to go away.
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@Skillfulstone said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3617700#Comment_3617700
Things that destroy Distortion;
Gearhead (if the Killer can get a hit, Distortion will never be useful if you do gens).
Undying (will take all stacks if the Killer isn't nearby to replenish one stack if attempting to cleanse a Dull totem).
Every perks and add-ons that reveal auras from far away.
Stealth Killers turn the perk into a wasted slot.
If the Killer didn't bring any aura-reading perks then the perk is worthless.
Distortion players aren't rats for using Distortion. Players are rats if never taking chase for teammates or never doing gens/going for rescues. Before Distortion was a thing, rats would just hide in lockers and/or would go edge-map. At least Distortion can make people able to go for saves they wouldn't be able to or help during a 3-gen (Killer kicks the gen with NTH, doesn't see anyone so either they leave and you can go back to repair quickly or stay around out of paranoïa which gives more time to your team to do other gens).
@Skillfulstone said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3618441#Comment_3618441
What are you talking about?
Gearhead alone goes through all tokens if you stay on a gen.
Undying alone goes through all tokens if you stay to cleanse the totem (not to mention randomly losing stacks to an unseen nearby Dull totem).
Several add-ons just vaporize Distortion.
Doctor as a whole invalidates Distortion.
Every stealth Killer turn Distortion into a wasted slot.
Just the other day, a Huntress with BBQ and Darkness Revealed burned every token and got a cross-map on me after one hook on someone else, never even saw her. Never managed to get more than one token back before it got deleted again.
Distortion's biggest strength is making some saves easier and making 3-genning situations a tad less impossible alongside giving a sliver of a chance to survive against a half-decent Nurse by doing the only thing possible: hide since you can't loop a Nurse and you can't even lightburn her anymore.
Why are people complaining about Distortion when Buckle Up and FTP, which has no counter except having everyone injured, exists?! Nobody gave a damn about Distortion until MFT got nerfed!
It doesn't matter if Distortion is sometimes not useful. The problem is the maximum value the perk can give. In some games, the killer can't force the survivor to just burn through all their stacks, and as I mentioned before, survivors can dodge many of the aura reading perks with stuff like lockers, after Distortion announces them to the survivor. For example, it only takes 1 distortion stack to know that BBQ is in the game, and the survivor can just dodge the other BBQ stacks.
And the biggest problem with Distortion is that it encourages and rewards survivors for excessively hiding the entire game, which is frustrating for both sides of the game. Distortion should just get removed from the game, and if people want aura reading blocking, they should just use Off The Record instead, which is much healthier for the game because it has a forced limited duration. I've tested Distortion, and in most games I don't even burn through my initial 3 stacks. Most killers just aren't running builds that can force all the Distortion tokens to burn. Usually it's Lethal or BBQ, which can't force 3 tokens to burn. And even if it's Nowhere to Hide, I can usually just dodge it by hiding in a locker or pre-leaving the generator when the visual terror radius happens. And those are by far the top 3 killer aura reading perks. I can't even remember the last time I played against a killer with Darkness Revealed. And Undying only reveals near dull totems, so it won't burn any tokens if I'm cleansing a lit totem.
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@Liozio said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3618550#Comment_3618550
If this were truly anti-rapid fire, your combo in the scenario you gave would surely entirely disappear (which would punish those players with lower accuracy and force you to be careful with your hits, even if rapid firing) since you threw 14 knives, hit 4 and missed the other 10?
My Main Event (similar to OPs, some slightly different numbers for mine though I believe), changes involve removing the combo extension mechanic and instead adding a charge depletion mechanic (on missing blade hits on survivors),.
I would argue that this fits your want of anti rapid-fire more than your own logic regarding the main event duration extension mechanic, since missing 10 blades in this system would result in my proposed 15 charges required to access main event system almost entirely depleting the amount of charges you have if you were say, at 14 charges after hitting 4 blades (in this example you were at 10 charges and required 5 hits), but then missing 10 blades and dropped back down to 4 blades.
1) I don't know why you made 7 separate replies for my 1 comment.
2) I want Trickster to have rapid fire gameplay. And I don't want him to have any anti-rapid-fire game mechanics
3) The combo events are an example of a pro rapid fire mechanic done correctly. I like pro rapid fire. I want the combo event in the game, because it's pro rapid fire. I'm not sure how many different ways I need to say this.
4) Your proposed main event idea is anti rapid fire, and should therefore never happen. Anti rapid fire mechanics are bad. I feel like I need to say this 50 times, because multiple people in this thread seem to be confused about this.
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@Liozio said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3616054#Comment_3616054
First point here isn't true, your throw rate would increase if you threw within a certain time period but it used to also increase the recoil from each blade. You could avoid this entirely by throwing within specific intervals I cannot remember off the top of my head (I want to say it was every 0.2 seconds or so but I'm not 100% on that.)
The whole point of tap firing, is that we used to bypass recoil by tap firing at the maximum non-recoil rate, or by double tap firing knives (the recoil happens after the 2nd knife is launched, so you could double tap, adjust the camera, then double tap again). With that style of gameplay, 6 knife Trickster was way more powerful than current Trickster.
The removal of recoil was really only a bonus for console players. Anyone that is used to other PvP games, is so used to weapons having recoil, that we can deal with recoil if we have to.
@Liozio said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3618419#Comment_3618419
Your last point makes zero sense. I don't understand what you're trying to say there.
If he by your own admission is not meant to have anything anti rapid fire, then why does the combo mechanic exist, which btw rewards consecutive hits with main event duration extensions?
The combo mechanic starts giving rewards at 2 consecutive hits, and doesn't take away rewards if Trickster misses. For example, if Trickster throws 30 knives during main event, hits 4 knives in a row, then misses the next 10 knives, he still gets a C Combo, with the C Combo rewards.
This combo mechanic is completely different from an addon that gives rewards for consecutive hits, but takes away the rewards if Trickster misses. That is the part that's anti-rapid fire... the part where Trickster gets punished for missing. The combo mechanic is an example of a rapid fire reward done correctly.
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@StarstruckFrog said:
If anyone wants some references of my gameplay, here is some of my favorite clips of me playing (mostly) pre-rework. I really miss his old firing rate and 6-Meter gameplay, it led to more skill expressive moments and more frequent use of his knives.
Notice how none of these clips involve main event? That's because it's boring. I like the manual firing far better, and would prefer if that was the actual focus of his kit. A lot of these clips are simply impossible to recreate with the current version because of the differences in throw rate and the increase in the amount of hits required to injure people.
I just want my main to be fun again.
1) If you are going to make a montage of the best Trickster clips, then you should pick clips where the survivors are playing well. What is happening in the above two screenshots?
In the first screenshot, why on earth did the survivor decide to run up a flight of stairs, which placed them back in line of sight with the window? They could have turned right (instead of left to go up the stairs), where the giant line of sight breaker is, then run far away. It would have taken Trickster so long to get through that main building, that the survivor would have safely made it to the next tile, and the laceration meter would have run out too by the time Trickster caught up to the survivor.
In the second screenshot, why on earth did the survivor decide to run up a fight of stairs, where there is zero line of sight breakers? The survivor should have ran out of the building, so they could use the building as a line of sight breaker, to give them time to run to the next tile.
What is the point of montages where the survivors clearly don't know how to play against Trickster?
2) If you want to show us reasons why to play Trickster instead of Huntress, then we need clips where Trickster got hits, but Huntress couldn't have gotten a hit. For example, all of those clips where the survivor is out in the open long enough for Huntress to get a hatchet hit, aren't good arguments for "play Trickster instead of Huntress". Clips where the survivor is animation locked, and Huntress could have gotten an easy hatchet, aren't good arguments either.
And we need the entire clip, where we see all 8 or 16 knives, so we can judge whether or not Huntress could have gotten a hit in that entire timeframe. Clips that are just showing us the last 1 or 2 knife hits are meaningless, because we have no idea if Huntress could have gotten a hit while Trickster was landing the first 6 knives.
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@StarstruckFrog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3618334#Comment_3618334
Most games that have rapid-fire weapons balance them out with low ammo and recoil, because they still want you to have decent accuracy. This is balanced out by more damage.
This is because having weapons that can do sustained fire is generally not fun in PVP games, as it leaves very little room for any creative counterplay or even playstyle variation.
Trickster should absolutely not go into the direction of constant rapid-fire, that only Pidgeon-holes him into a boring playstyle where all you do is hold M1 in the direction of a survivor until they die. Old trickster was perfect, having good fire rate to take advantage of surv mistakes but also having a more skill-expressive and necessary tap-fire playstyle to help at loops where u didnt have much LOS.
Knives are definitely not "balanced out by more damage". When characters like Huntress have 1 projectile = 1 health state, Trickster having 8 (OR MORE!) projectiles = 1 health state, means his knives are low damage. And again, most projectile game have projectiles that are either hitscan, or massively faster than Trickster's knives, which means that perfect aiming is rewarded. DBD is not that game, because Trickster's knives are way too slow for that.
And rapid fire gameplay is the only reason to pick Trickster over Huntress. If I'm supposed to carefully aim every knife, and expected 100% accuracy, then I should just pick Huntress instead, whose projectiles have such a large hitbox that it's way easier to get 100% accuracy hits with them.
And I'm not saying Trickster should literally hold down the fire button non-stop. I'm just saying he shouldn't have anything that's ANTI RAPID FIRE, which is basically anything that rewards consecutive hits, or anything that punishes missed hits.
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@Liozio said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3616862#Comment_3616862
If the entire point of the rework is rapid fire gameplay, how would rewarding consecutive hits be a bad thing? This point makes zero sense imo.
And reminder: Main Event throws less blades overall, so the rapid fire gameplay point / idea has effectively failed entirely.
Have you ever played any other game that involves rapid fire weapons? Have you noticed they tend to give those weapons a huge ammo capacity, and the ammo boxes tend to have a huge number of bullets, because it's 100% expected that you shouldn't be having perfect accuracy when you are using rapid fire?
Trickster's knives have bad accuracy if he's not in close range, because the hitbox is so tiny, and the projectiles have a slow enough travel time that survivors can micro dodge some of the knives even if Trickster is aiming perfectly. This is because Trickster needs to actually predict where the survivor is, which is 100% impossible if the survivor is randomly micro dodging. This isn't a skill issue. It's literally a "Trickster's knives literally can't guarantee 100% accuracy if the survivor isn't in close range, even if the killer has infinite skill in the game".
Expecting Trickster to have 100% accuracy is expecting him to be using his knives at close range, at which point, why bother playing a ranged character? If Trickster is close enough to someone to guarantee 100% accuracy, they would be close enough for Wesker to just M2 them instead.
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@MrDrMedicman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3617193#Comment_3617193
I do that. console still has auto aim
Survivors spinning is also taking advantage of the forced short M1 attack bug, that can steal hits from killers. It's a game bug that most people don't know exists, but it's still one of the major reasons why 360s can cause missed attacks.
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@NerfDHalready said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3617193#Comment_3617193
sometimes auto aim makes me short swing for some reason.
Killers are forbidden to lunge if they are too close to a survivor. It doesn't matter if a killer is holding a direction and the M1 button at the same time, because the game will force a short M1 tap attack if the killer tries to attack while right next to a survivor.
This means that killers have an M1 deadzone, that is near the max length of the forced M1 zone. M1 attacks are unreliable in the M1 deadzone. Survivor 360s try to trigger this bug, hoping that when the killer starts to hold M1, that the killer is close enough to get a forced short M1 attack, but when hit validation happens the killer is too far away for a short M1 attack to succeed.
@Coffeecrashing said:
Killers are forbidden to lunge if they are too close to a survivor. It doesn't matter if a killer is holding a direction and the M1 button at the same time, because the game will force a short M1 tap attack if the killer tries to attack while right next to a survivor.
I'd even claim that many of the aim dressing complaints involve this short M1 tap bug, because if a killer is expecting to be able to do a full lunge attack, and they purposely turn their camera toward an object because lunges have zero object collision (and therefore they are expecting to be able to curve around objects with their lunge), that when the killer is forced into a short M1 tap attack, they can easily hit an object next to them and think the problem was aim dressing.
BHVR should also look into the possibility that the game might be forcing short M1 tap attacks, even though the survivor might be out of range by the time the hit validation snapshots are taken, which means that the forced short M1 tap attack might be stealing a hit, because the killer could have reached the survivor if they were allowed to lunge attack.
Here is the bug post for this issue, that was pending for 7 months, and just went under review yesterday. This issue happens 100% of the time. Just try to lunge while standing next to a survivor, and notice the lunge doesn’t happen. It’s mind boggling that after 7 months, this bug still hasn’t been acknowledged by BHVR.
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@FreeKnives said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3617404#Comment_3617404
Well, if you say so, but I still stand by this opinion. I dont doubt that you feel you need the extra 10% of Memento Blades to succeed in matches. I'm just providing some thought on when it comes to needing faster throw rate on top of 4.6 AND 15s decay laceration. You are saying its because the 8 knife to injure. Yes that does make a difference, can't deny that. I do feel it when I am comparing this Trickster to old Trickster. However I dont find myself comparing this Trickster to Old Trickster like I did in the previous update....There are lots of times in the previous update I would say "Man that would have already been a down...that would have been an injure". I dont find myself comparing out of pain like I did last update. The 8 knife is a new challenge that you need to account for when in chase and looping. When you do that accuracy becomes more important. Mind gaming becomes important, timing shots...everything becomes more important to make sure you injure them. Before you could injure while in animation, and now thats not guaranteed, unless you start sooner, or your accuracy is better. I don't think thats terrible, I just think is a challenge. One of the things that I didn't like, if we are comparing 4.4 with 4.6 Trickster, is people saying this Trickster was for people who didn't want to take the time to learn 4.4 Trickster because he was harder. Its true though, and I think thats why I am wary to remove any of THIS Tricksters skill expressions or difficulties. And I say difficulties not frustrations, not to me at least, because I am learning to work around the 8 knife to injure. 8 knives to injure is what we are saying we need the memento blades for?
I think 10% is a lot to put in his basekit, and it does whether you agree or not about having it, it does make a huge difference and makes him less challenging to use. Maybe 5% but 10? If the counterplay isn't in laceration, or movement speed then where is it? It just feels like we would be making 4.6 Trickster have everything 4.4 did but with 4.6 movement. And 4.4 Trickster was pretty strong, he was just slow as hell (but for a reason). Just an opinion and some thought. I've been running a build without Memento Blades to see if it is in fact only the better players who can manage without Memento Blades...and I am not the best Trickster, but I haven't felt like my losses were because I wasn't running Memento. Usually because I made a mistake or my accuracy. Like I said before. And remember this is all opinion, even your counterargument. Doesnt mean BHVR will listen to it.
When survivors get something nerfed, I really wish that people would go on these forums and tell survivors that nerfs are good, because it allows them to use more skill expression, and allows them to be challenged.
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@MikhailVictor said:
The finally found this post!
I wonder if this will be “Under Review” for the next 7 months, even though this issue literally happens 100% of the time, and it is very easy to recreate this issue.
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How is this still Pending after 7 months? Is this a super secret bug, that no one is allowed to talk about? This bug is huge, and affects so many games.
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These suggestions go against the entire point of Trickster's rework, which is to have rapid fire gameplay...
1) Having anything that rewards consecutive hits, goes against rapid fire gameplay. Expecting a 100% accuracy rate during rapid fire is so very unrealistic and awful.
2) Trying to make Main Event less frequent also goes against rapid fire gameplay. Main Event is pretty much that the only time Trickster can rapid fire a survivor at mid range (or farther), when the survivor is micro-wiggling to dodge knives, because the expected accuracy rate will be too low to rapid fire without Main Event.
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Ragequitters and lone wolf survivors are the biggest solo q problems in the game. Giving solo q more information isn't going to help with that. In fact, giving solo q more information, might make the lone wolf survivor problem even worse. For example, if you give survivors the ability to see other survivor perks in the lobby, then lone wolf survivors can lobby shop until they are the only one with a lone wolf perk build, and therefore will have a higher chance of being the last survivor in the match.
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@PyramidFootLicker said:
Stacks are not generous and get burned out FAST especially against killers who only focus on aura reading, and against stealth killers. So hiding in those scenarios makes you easy to find if there's no terror radius you basically have a dead perk. It has so many existing counters and it was deemed useless until people started running plenty of tracking perks that came with the new chapters which are terribly good. Plus it helps counter the pressure set by these perks.
Perks can be unhealthy for the game, even if they aren't useful in 100% of the games. If someone isn't playing a stealth killer, and they aren't only focused on aura reading, then Distortion can last the entire game because the killer's aura reading perks aren't strong enough to burn through all the Distortion stacks if the survivor is trying to conserve their stacks.
Again, the problem is the maximum value the perk can give. And even against stealth killers, a survivor can still usually conserve stacks long enough to last a large portion of the game. As I mentioned before, once a Distortion user loses a stack because of an aura perk, they know the perk is in the game, and they can try to dodge it in the future so they don't lose stacks from it again.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3615810#Comment_3615810
This, so much. Anything is low effort if if goes against the (choose side) rulebook. /s
I hope @Coffeecrashing expands on this.
People that defend Distortion will sometimes mention just how quickly a survivor can burn through Distortion, as if survivors won't ever ever try to protect their stacks. This isn't what people are doing. One of the biggest values of Distortion is identifying which aura reading perks a killer has, so they can pinpoint which perks need to be dodged. This can help minimize the amount of excessive hiding the survivor needs to do.
For example, if a Distortion user is far away from the killer when someone else gets hooked, and Distortion doesn't trigger, then the Distortion user knows BBQ isn't in the game, so they don't need to hide in lockers when survivors get hooked. For another example, if a survivor is hiding near a generator when it is being kicked, and Distortion doesn't trigger, then the Distortion user knows Nowhere To Hide isn't in the game, so they don't need to try to dodge that effect either.
And that is the main difference between having Distortion and not having Distortion. Because without Distortion, excessively hiding survivors might just hide in lockers (or hide far away), way more often than they need to, because they don't know for sure which perks they actually need to dodge.
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@dance said:
Thanks all. Glad to hear that for several of you The Trickster feels better after the most recent changes. For those who think he feels in a pretty good spot - is it accurate to say that the biggest pain point / concern is his Add-ons? Specifically that Memento Blades feels like a must-have and/or that the others are too weak to provide much variety?
For those who feel The Trickster still isn't quite how you would want him - I saw a few comments about 8 knives vs. 6 knives, notably around the ammo capacity staying the same even though more knives are needed. I just want to make sure - did I miss any major context around that?
I forgot to comment on this earlier. Trickster originally (before he ever went live) had 60 knives, but was changed to 44 when he went live.
- context: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/290-5-1-0-mid-chapter "Now starts with 44 knives (was 60), Trick Pouch: Adds 4 knives to inventory (was 10), Bloody Boa: Adds 8 knives to inventory (was 15)"
A few months later, he was changed from 8 knives per health state, to 6 knives per health state.
- context: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/262994/developer-update-july-2021 "The number of knives required to damage a Survivor has been reduced to 6 (down from 8)
I really want Trickster to lean into the "lots of knives" and "rapid fire" gameplay, to give him a unique identity, and a reason to play him instead of Huntress (who is still a much better pick, even with her slower movement speed). This requires lots of main events, and for people to acknowledge that rapid fire = not perfect accuracy. Having addons that encourage consecutive hits, is very anti-rapid fire gameplay. Every other PvP game I've played, that involves projectiles, acknowledges that rapid fire weapons don't have perfect accuracy, and can miss a lot if the target isn't in close range, and therefore has very large ammo capacities, so players can actually hold down the fire button without worrying about running out of ammo.
And the new Ji-Woon's Autograph and Fizz-Spin Soda really are garbage. I'm not wasting an addon slot, just to get a bit more bloodpoints, and a slightly longer main event.
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@fussy said:
Nobody wants it will be nerfed hard. Only thing many people want is getting stacks become harder, because now it's too free, unless killer has full aura build.
Many people want it nerfed hard. Perks that encourage survivors to excessively hide for the entire game need to be nerfed hard. Stealth perks need a much more limited duration, so they are only good for anti-tunnel (i.e. Off the Record) or helping to escape a chase (i.e. Quick and Quiet).
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@daffyd said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3615499#Comment_3615499
I agree, the game without comms in it's current state can create selfish survivors.
Your example of a survior screaming can be managed by muting them (lifetime setting) and the idea BHVR are still implementing of keeping previous lobby survivors ensures that you whittle away the unwanted to have a decent team thus giving a better balanced and fair game that can be fun for all
BHVR encourages lone wolf survivors, and allowing the mute function to affect matchmaking would go against that goal.
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This game encourages selfish survivors, which would be a complete mess if voice comms were basekit.
Imagine survivors screaming at lone wolf survivors, and then the lone wolf survivors claiming the other survivors are harassing them.
Voice comms only work in actual team games, which encourage people to work together.
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@D3spair said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/AVJPD6C9UMUS/image.png
This is just a game I just finished but like holy crap, No Screaming and No Aura reading. Survivors were all good at looping as well, but I got 2 Kills just because I downed the Obsession right after Final Gen pop and No Way Out helping.
Aside from, somehow the game is wanting me to sweat my ass off and run 4 meta slow-downs perks in this bone chill event, (just ranting as I don't want to sweat i.e. run 4 Slowdown just for games to last more than 5 mins this event meant for fun) I noticed that I somehow, every game I am running into these kinds of builds where I can't see Survivors with BBQ and Chili/Friends till the End or Make them Scream (Doctor Shock/Infectious Fright).
Is this because of Ultimate Weapon? Tracking Perks are essentially Dead Weight for me right now as 2 or more Survivors every Game are running these Anti Tracking Perks Distortion and Calm Spirit.
How do you guys deal with your Tracking Perks essentially being Useless? Does BHVR want me to run Pain Resonance, PGTW, Corrupt Intervention and Deadlock/Surge Instead?
Can BHVR hurry up and Nerf Ultimate Weapon and these Anti Tracking Perks? - from a guy who does not like running Gen regression.
Survivors excessively hide because it gives results, and is low effort.
@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
What is the problem here?
The only perk that is being countered here is Friends to the End but that also eats like 2 stacks of distortion since it has long duration. The other perks are not countered. Aura positions are NOT screaming on these perks.
But it doesn't need to eat through 2 stacks, because the Distortion user can just hop in a locker if they notice the perk has triggered on them, and then preemptively hop into a locker to avoid future aura reveals from this perk.
I really don't know why people just assume Distortion users are forced into just eating through stacks whenever possible
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Killers are forbidden to lunge if they are too close to a survivor. It doesn't matter if a killer is holding a direction and the M1 button at the same time, because the game will force a short M1 tap attack if the killer tries to attack while right next to a survivor.
This means that killers have an M1 deadzone, that is near the max length of the forced M1 zone. M1 attacks are unreliable in the M1 deadzone. Survivor 360s try to trigger this bug, hoping that when the killer starts to hold M1, that the killer is close enough to get a forced short M1 attack, but when hit validation happens the killer is too far away for a short M1 attack to succeed.
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FTTE is worse than BBQ, because it announces itself to the survivors, which makes it easier for them to dodge it. And since the primary effect only reveals the obsession, if that survivor has distortion, or just hides in a locker until the aura reading is done, then you won't easily find them.
BBQ, on the other hand, has the potential to reveal 3 survivors, and doesn't announce itself to the survivors, so there are more chances of it actually showing someone.
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@Seraphor said:
As someone who regularly runs Lethal Pursuer and tries to 2-hook everyone before sacrifices (ideally), yes it's quite noticeable when the game starts with only 3 visible survivor aura's and there's one survivor I just never see despite going out of my way to look for them.
That said, I wouldn't ask for Distortion nerfs. My playstyle is mine, no killer is obligated to 2-hook or avoid accidentally tunneling, and no survivor is obligated to play altruisticly.
A survivor doing their fair share of chases isn’t them being altruistic. It just means the player isn’t playing selfishly.
We aren’t asking for BHVR to force survivors to play altruistically. We’re just asking BHVR to nerf a playstyle that’s selfish and damaging to the rest of the survivors.
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Xeno’s M2 hitbox is confusing, because it’s based off of the middle of the screen, when Xeno ISN’T in crawler mode. This means that when Xeno crouches because it’s in crawler mode, the M2 hitbox starts higher than the middle of the screen.
This means that if Xeno is trying to hit something super close, they are supposed to aim much lower than they think they should be aiming.
Just to be clear, the M2 hitbox starts higher than the middle of the screen (when Xeno is in crawler mode), but is angled diagonally so that if Xeno is aiming at something farther away, that the hitbox eventually converges to the middle of the screen.
TD;LR Lowering the camera view for the killer, causes a whole bunch of issues, and the killer would be much better off if crawler mode didn’t change the camera view on the killer’s screen.
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@Maddoka said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3613227#Comment_3613227
Well if you need Trickster feedback in general, I really think that you should have given him some more love lore-wise/aestethically. Like, Legion got Addon chase music changes in their rework, why not Trickster? Plus, he should have really gotten a map (Just like Twins and Blight). These things are very important to his playstyle and balance, trust me.
Regarding lore, I still don’t understand the “trick” part of Trickster. The lore and backstory made it seem like he could do all these fun things with knives, but he pretty much just throws knives in a straight line…. And his ultimate move is to throw more knives in a straight line.
And all his “does fun things with knives” addons are purple rarity, which means I would need to invest lots of of bloodpoints to use them, and still might not be able to use them every game.
At the very least, trick blades should be yellow rarity, so people can easily use them whenever they want.
The other problem is that right now, I can’t even use the fun purple rarity addons, because I’m stuck using momentum blades, with one of the addons that extends main event duration, because both those things feel horrible at base kit.
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@Smoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3613085#Comment_3613085
Someone getting a higher win streak with another killer doesn't prove anything.
She ignores what every other killer is forced to comply with, that alone is what makes her the strongest killer in the game, period.
All the stats show she’s not the best across all MMR levels, that she’s not the best at the top 5% MMR, and she’s not the best at the absolute top level (the highest winstreak). Where exactly is she supposed to be the best killer?
Here’s an experiment. What if Nurse had a blink fatigue of 60 seconds, where she literally floated at fatigue speed for 60 seconds? Would you still think she’s the #1 killer? Because of the answer is “NO”, then you’ve admitted there are other factors involved in being #1.
And that’s the problem. Her triple nerf made her so inefficient at blinking, that she’s no longer the #1 killer, especially when the map reworks added so many more line of sight breakers, which cause her to guess even more.
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@Smoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3613081#Comment_3613081
As long as she can blink through objects and damage Survivors, she will always be the strongest killer no matter what, especially in the right hands.
Nope. She doesn’t even have the highest win streak anymore.
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@Smoe said:
Dead by daylight is a p2w game
Counter Points: Nurse is the strongest killer in the game who is also free and Shrine of Secret offers perks for free that are locked behind paywall normally.
Nurse isn’t the strongest killer is the game anymore. That ship sailed when she got a triple nerf a long time ago.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3612893#Comment_3612893
don't worry you were quite respectful.
I understand the point you are making but that is not the whole premise of the game - survivors can work together or be selfish, the choice is on them.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/WKSM22XDEACB/image.png
From the store page.
We've never had the intention to force players into specific playstyles.
We aren't asking for players to be forced into a specific playstyle, like "super altruistic and must help others whenever possible". We're just asking for BHVR to do something about the specific selfish playstyle that is frustrating for both sides of the game. There should be a difference here.
For example, discouraging killers from facecamping didn't force them into a specific playstyle, and instead just discouraged a specific playstyle that was a problem. Similarly, adding a 3 gen solution to the game won't force killers into a specific playstyle.
(Editing this post to add the next part…)
Also, if overly selfish behavior can’t be fixed because it’s a core game element, then maybe the core game element is outdated and needs to be fixed. Solo q will never feel like a team, as long as BHVR encourages survivors to be as selfish as possible, especially when their selfish behavior can arguably be considered sandbagging their team.
And I think there should be a difference between survivors that think a game is going poorly, so they want to prioritize themselves….. and survivors that are literally planning to be super selfish before the game starts.
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Nemesis infection coughs should alert nearby zombies, even if there’s no line of sight. That would make the zombies much more useful.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3612301#Comment_3612301
Again, i disagree... the survival rate is important.
No one want to play a game if they have 0% chance of winning.
To use your own logic, its unfun to loose all the time. I play mostly in a swf and my team dont have any issues with it, and if other survivors feel they get found too often because some use it, they are free to use it too, its a simple solution.
Eruption got nerfed, because some people were using it to excessively defend a 3 gen situation. It didn’t matter that some killers weren’t doing this with Eruption.
Similarly, it doesn’t matter if you personally aren’t causing frustration with your SWF when you use distortion and calm spirit. What matters is that many solo q survivors are causing frustration for the rest of their team, when they excessively hide with perks like distortion and calm spirit.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3612290#Comment_3612290
I disagree, i run distortion most of the time and some times also calm spirit, i still dont survive 50% of the games.
The survival rate isn’t important
The important part is those perks can be massively unfun for the other survivors and for the killer.
If killers are expected to avoid tunneling survivors, then there needs to be a reasonable expectation that all 4 survivors are findable. And when survivors are excessively hiding with perks like Distortion and Calm Spirit, it’s not reasonable to expect a killer to find those survivors, when there are other survivors that aren’t excessively hiding.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3612274#Comment_3612274
Some killers chase music is simply too loud, i never play male Legion for that reason. While the music is cool its way too loud and ruins the chase. On the other hand, there is survivor perks that are made for hiding from the killer, mid chase. They could get a small buff so it actually requires to have the perk, to be good at that. ect.
Stealth perks should have a limited duration, so they are only used as anti tunnel, or only to help escape a chase.
There should never be stealth perks that can have such a massively high uptime, that survivors can use them to excessive hide from the killer for large portions of the game.
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@Ebonbane2000 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3612173#Comment_3612173
People are hiding because they have a lack of information. Saying, "Shack gen is ready to pop, I'm running the killer" in voice-com would probably get one of the three peeps attention.
World of Warcraft has stolen ideas from EQ2, SWTOR (both are sorta dead), Pokemon, and a slew of other games. That's why Wow is 19 years old and still going strong. It's silly to ignore a game's innovations just because it didn't succeed (or isn't as big as DBD).
Voice comms would actually make DBD more of an enjoyable party game imho. Sure there are clowns that will need to be muted now and then. But given my experience with comms in the other game, I'd wager the good would far outweigh the bad. Especially, since the communities overlap quite a bit.
Realistically, if voice comms were added to the game, there would be a lot of people yelling at the lone wolf survivors to repair generators, and a lot of lone wolf survivors reporting people for yelling at them, and it would just be a giant headache for BHVR.
We can’t have voice comms in a game that encourages lone wolf survivors.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3612250#Comment_3612250
7. If it goes both ways, Elodie, Bill and Jeff are super loud. They need to be more silent too.
Grunts of pain should be audible behind an object, even when the chase music is happening. Killers shouldn’t be forced into a guessing game, just because a survivor ran behind a line of sight breaker, especially when there are now so many line of sight breakers in the maps.
If there is a volume, that’s quieter than Jeff, but still reasonably audible behind sound occlusion, then that should be fine.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3612175#Comment_3612175
What quality of life options would you like to see?
1: Remove the forced short M1 attack mechanic, that can steal hits from the killer. When a killer tries to make a lunge attack, the game checks if the killer is “too close” to a survivor, and if the game decides the killer is “too close”, then it forbids the killer from making a lunge attack, and forces a short M1 attack instead. The problem is that the game then makes a 2nd check, for hit validation, and if the hit is denied because the killer was too far away, but the killer was too far away because the game forbid them from using a lunge attack, then the game stole a hit from the killer.
And anecdotally, it feels like this happens more often when the game is laggy, so I’ve always wondered if the 1st check happens on the killer side, and the 2nd check happens on the server side?
Also, I think a lot of the “auto aim” or “aim dressing” complaints, are really caused by this mechanic. When a killer is chasing a survivor around an object, and holds down the M1 button, and expects a lunge attack that can curve around the object with zero collision, but instead gets a forced short m1 attack… it causes the camera to quickly spin, and the killer to hit whatever object they were trying the curve around. And then people assume aim dressing forced their camera to spin, when in reality it didn’t.
Long story short, the game shouldn’t validate an attack twice, and the game shouldn’t force a killer into a short M1 attack, unless it has already validated that the attack will connect.
2: Reduce the effects of sound occlusion, especially when both players are outdoors, and the sound should realistically be able to travel over whatever object is between the killer and survivor.
3: Make scratchmarks more reliable, as they are sometimes inconsistent on certain ground types or certain ground clutter, or sometimes scratchmarks have random gaps between them, and sometimes a survivor makes a sharp left or right turn and the killer needs to literally guess which direction they went because there aren’t enough scratchmarks.
4: Scratchmarks should glow brighter so they are easier to see
5: Custom scratchmark and aura colors, because they are difficult to see on red maps. And it’s frustrating to try to find a red survivor aura behind a red generator aura.
6: Make footstep sounds more reliable, as sometimes they are just deleted by sound occlusion, or by certain ground types, or by certain survivor cosmetics.
7: Normalize survivor grunts of pain, so that none of them are super quiet like Ace currently is.
8: Somehow nerf excessive hiding. When two of the survivors in a game are excessively hiding, it pretty much forces the killer to tunnel out the other two survivors, which can feel bad for those survivors and for the killer. This is important, because this issue can be frustrating for both sides of the game.
9: (I added this about half a day after making this post, because I forgot this one)..... Lower the volume of the chase music. Chase music volume is currently a very negative player experience, as the volume is purposely high to confuse the killer.
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@Alen_Starkly said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3611340#Comment_3611340
Killers also got:
3) nerfed medkits, which significantly hurt solo queue; a lot of killers started using mangled/haemmorhage more after this nerf, instead of the expected less
4) nerfed DS, which won't help the survivor much, unless they are very good, and are not playing against Nurse or several other killers who can catch up easily after the stun
5) disabling DS, OTR and anti-camp mechanic in the endgame, to give killers an (imo) undeserved easy mode, especially if paired with NOED. Again, getting all gens done and having no-one tunneled out of the game at 4/5 gens in solo queue is miracle in itself, and then making killer go into god mode in endgame makes the game for survivors very difficult
Those aren’t quality of life. Just because something is helpful for killers, doesn’t make it quality of life.
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@Mandy said:
Quality of life changes are things we are always looking at, for example the FOV slider that's going to be implemented shortly and the Survivor HUD that's currently in the game.
The lobby changes will take some time (I don't have a timescale), as things are likely to be reworked. Showing perks loadouts though is not fully part of that, and not decided if that will come into the game for various reasons - lobby dodging would likely increase, you see 3 other survivors with Distortion = Dodge, someone running No Mither = Dodge, someone running a solo survivor build = dodge, as some examples. Things are not cut and dried so before we make changes such as that it has to be considered very carefully both the positives and negatives, and depending which one outweighs the other.
Rather than lobby perks being shown, there's been some great ideas that I've seen recently where you see more in game itself, so for example the aura of a Survivor downed with Plot Twist having a different colour, I think that's something that's far more valuable in game.
Are there ever going to be more quality of life announcements for killers? We have so many plans for survivors, but killers still just have the FoV slider, and that’s a bit sad.
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@Ebonbane2000 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3612116#Comment_3612116
Voice comms works just fine (for family and victims) in another recently released asym game. Also, there's in-match chat to help get around verbal language barriers. Using these tools often makes the difference in a match.
It would definitely help co-ordinate saves, which gen to push, and allow general info exchange (like perk info).
This would be the ultimate step in bridging the SWF/soloQ gap and could allow for the game to be balanced solely around SWF-like coordination.
That’s not the scenario the person was complaining about. The person was complaining that no one was repairing generators. And sometimes that happens because there’s lone wolf survivors that don’t want to place themselves in potential danger.
And besides, DBD should never be balanced around voice comms. The other asym games that used in game voice chat are either cancelled, or have such few players that they really shouldn’t be used as an example of a successful game.
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@Vlarian said:
Hey, just wanted to make this post because I've adored the game for so long. I've gone from being a toxic killer main, only survivor main, I've always understood both sides and respected everyone who played with me.
But my flame is dwindling, because solo Q feels like I only win one out of 10 games, purely on the lack of communication between my teammates. I can't count the amount of times I try everything in my power to win a game, but I simply have teammates that refuse to repair generators. I only see gens being completed within the first minute, but as SOON as the killer gets a hook, not a single teammate even touches a gen. It's baffling to me how little I escape when I play alone.
I don't know if it's just because I'm rusty, but it feels literally hopeless without 3 other people on comms. Is this simply a skill issue? What are your thoughts?
How would voice comms help? Would you yell at your teammates to do generators?
You know that in a lot of team games with voice comms, it degrades into a bunch of people yelling at each other, and telling each other what to do?
What are you going to do if you have a lone wolf survivor, that isn’t doing generators because they are literally just hiding and waiting for everyone else to die? Are you just going to yell at them the entire game?
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@Tsulan said:
I´m getting mixed signals from this comment. Just to clarify. Do you want buffs for twins or not?
I want buffs for Twins, but I’m still not convinced the goal of the upcoming twins changes are to buff Twins.
I think it’s much more likely slugging will get heavily nerfed, and Twins won’t be given proper compensation. And very likely that Twins changes will reach the PTB, a streamer will make a clickbait video complaining how overpowered Twins have become, the forums will get flooded with complaints, and BHVR nerfs Twins so they are worse off than they were before the changes.
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Spirit just needs the directional audio to respect sound occlusion, like it did when it was first released.
The 1st directional audio patch wasn't the thing that drove away most the Spirit players. It was the 2nd patch that buffed the directional audio that drove away most of the Spirit players.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3611586#Comment_3611586
You think faster recovery for everything is not QoL, but fixing bugs is QoL?
Quality of life are things that make the player experience feel better. Quality of life changes aren't designed to increase win rates, they're designed for the experience. And sometimes quality of life changes increases win rates, but that's not the goal.
Slightly faster kicking speeds was absolutely purposely designed to move the win rates. And it's not anywhere near comparable to the time and effort placed into creating the survivor HUD and anti-camp mechanic. Slightly faster kicking speeds is just changing a number in a code file... that's it. Minimal effort.
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BHVR just needs to give some people separate MMR scores for solo q and SWF, so that the survivors that usually do perform better in SWFs, are properly given a higher MMR score for matchmaking.
And calculating MMR scores need to be weighted more towards the highest SWF member's MMR, because if a SWF picks up a team member with an MMR score lower than the rest of the SWF, it can throw down the average MMR score of the SWF way too low. We've seen this problem happen when streamers do "community SWF" events, when they SWF with the random people in their Twitch chat, and the streamer gets super easy mode killers whenever they SWF with lower MMR survivors.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3611340#Comment_3611340
You could say killers got some things in past:
faster recovery on hit
faster pallet breaking
faster pick up animation
bloodlust
longer gen timer (that got kinda offset by nerfing most slowdown perks)
There is not much you can do for killers on global level anymore, because you have massive difference in powerlevels (Freddy vs Blight etc.)
Next changes need to be mostly killer specific buffs, reworks.
None of those are quality of life improvements. People don't say "killer feels better to play, because pallet breaking is slightly faster".
And that's the biggest problem. The survivor experience is very important to BHVR, and BHVR is always looking for ways to improve the survivor experience..... but the killer experience is not important, and BHVR would rather give killers generic number buffs, that move the kill rate, but don't actually improve the killer experience.
Yes, you can do quality of life improvements for killers. Like removing the forced short m1 attack bug, that can steal hits from the killer.
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@moulesfrites said:
Q: Do you plan for survivors to be able to inspect other survivor's builds before the game starts? Just to make people with less than 4 players coordinate more efficiently?
A: This is something we've also thought about, but are currently restricted due to flexibility in the lobby screens. We are updating these old screens gradually and you should see some improvement over the next years :) -Rose.
Q: Same rotation of the maps can get boring fast, do you plan adding more realms? For the characters that currently have no personal realms especially. Trickster deserves a cool neon-y scene map, or our new Good Guy would be even better with the factory :D Or the survivors’ special maps could have been nice as well, like Nic’s movie-filming stage he kinda had at the trailer!
A: Similar to another question I answered earlier, so please allow me to copy paste a bit: Maps are tricky (for a lot of reasons) and there is only so much we can do in a year (for a lot of other reasons). That said, realms are built with procedural and re-use in mind and thus it is very possible to re-explore these realms with new locations in the future. (this is NOT a promise.) -Dave
No. No, no, no and NO! I will NOT wait years for any good changes. I will not wait years for quality of life features. I will not wait years for improvements to your game. Human life is way too short for this. We had bugs from the time of olds returning this month. We still have lockers flipping over. We now have hag and pyramid head with animation bugs. We can't have updated HUDs. Same billion badham map versions. 7 Years guys. 7 Years. I can't do this anymore.
Survivors already got the following for QoL....
SURVIVORS...
1) Survivor HUD
1.5) Additional stuff added to the Survivor HUD
2) Easier flashlight timing
3) Removed hook grabs
4) Anti face camp
5) Upcoming 3 gen "solution"
6) The entire Mangled mechanic being updated in the future, to be less frustrating for survivors
MEANWHILE, KILLERS...
1) Upcoming FoV slider
2) LITERALLY ZERO OTHER THINGS ANNOUNCED
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I don't understand how realistic these new gamemodes are. If it takes literal years to code perk icons on the lobby screen, then imagine how many decades it would take to create an "Among Us" gamemode.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
As others have said here, you don't get consistent value out of Distortion all that often. Most of the time when you do, it's right at the beginning of the match (Lethal Pursuer) and not much after. I run it a lot, and in my experience, these are the most common scenarios:
- Distortion does nothing (like half the time) and is essentially a dead perk slot
- Distortion triggers at the beginning of a match (Lethal Pursuer), and not again
- Distortion triggers at the beginning and you get continued value (killer likely running Lethal, BBQ, Floods of Rage, etc.)
- Killer running multiple easily triggered aura perks and tokens are quickly depleted, Distortion useless most of the match (this is a lot of Blights, Nurses, Huntresses
- Scratched Mirror or Vanity Mirror Myers (LOL)
In summary: you get very inconsistent value; it can be very helpful, totally useless, and mixed in between. So there is risk in running it.
It doesn't matter if the perk has a risk, or if it doesn't get a lot of values in certain games.
What is a problem, is the value it gets in some games, when the killer is using a character/perks/addons that get massively countered by Distortion. As in, the maximum value gained by this perk is broken. "Wraith" counters Distortion doesn't help if I'm not playing Wraith. And "people stacking lots of aura reading perks" doesn't help if I'm not stacking lots of aura reading perks. In some of my games, I'm just not ever revealing the Distortion player's aura at all, for at least half the game, and sometimes never at all in the entire game.