Coffeecrashing
Coffeecrashing
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@kit_mason said:
"The bare minimum" would be to do nothing, becuase Shadowborn was already increasing FOV.
Instead they've made Shadowborn pseudo-basekit, which is fine. As for cosmetic issues, that's a cosmetic issue, not an FOV issue.
This FoV slider is the bare minimum, because there were too many comments about accessibility.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3635731#Comment_3635731
If this were the case it'd be a lot more widespread
Ive only seen a select few who complain about this
It's current a secret game mechanic. People aren't complaining about it, because they don't understand what's happening.
Or they are complaining about it, but they're calling it "aim assist", and BHVR rushes in to tell us aim assist doesn't exist, and it confuses people into thinking there isn't a mechanic stealing hits. And when people say aim dressing can steal hits, or I talk about the forced short M1 attack, then BHVR refuses to comment. It has been over 6 months since I first reported this. At any point in these 6+ months, BHVR could have corrected me if I was wrong, but they didn't. It's just a flat refusal to comment on this.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Would be nice if the FOV ranged from 80-120 (instead of 87-103).
Of course this would mean that some animations would need to be updated (to avoid camera clipping among other issues).
I really don't think BHVR cares that much about many of the 1st person clipping and animation issues. Holding a hatchet causes Huntress to constantly dislocate the bones in her throwing arm, rift Dredge's arm has the clipping issues I showed above, and some of Spirit's sleeves still terribly ragdoll around her hands.
And if the issue is the killer animations, then BHVR could just say so. But they've been so silent and uncaring about this entire FoV slider, that it's much more likely they just don't want to do it. The entire time we've been waiting for the FoV slider, they've refused to tell us the FoV range of the slider, we get zero previews or teasers of the FoV slider, and the FoV slider got released with so many other things that it has the least amount of feedback of all this PTB. We couldn't even get a pinned thread dedicated to just the FoV slider, as people kept using the FoV thread to complain about the new UI.
Does everyone remember the survivor HUD, where we got a whole bunch of previews and teasers, and someone from BHVR rushed to the forums to let us know how excited BHVR was to release the survivor HUD??? It was such a celebration, and it really felt like BHVR was happy to talk about the feature, and was happy to give the feature to survivors. None of that happened with the FoV slider. We don't get any discussions from BHVR, about whether or not they discussed a bigger FoV range. No thought process or anything.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3635701#Comment_3635701
The only way I can see aim dressing robbing a hit is if theres something in the way. As mentioned previously with input buffering, sometimes it can override certain actions. In this case the game would recognize the Survivor is in the hurt zone, but at the very last moment an object gets in the way and makes you hit that instead.
99% of the time its a whiff anyway, and the only way youre getting a hit is if the Survivor vaccuums themselves into an animation and the very tip of the hitbox connects, especially if one side has higher ping than the other.
Everything stated here is something Ive experienced and it makes sense as its just input buffering, how ever whiffing in the open has no excuse other than the user since theres nothing overriding the prompt/action.
Or it’s because lunges have profits checks that are completely separate from the hit validation checks, which means the game could wrongfully force a lunge to turn into a short M1 attack. And it’s stealing and hit specifically because it’s forcing a short m1 attack, and then making a separate check for hit validation.
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@Beano744 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3635498#Comment_3635498
Yeah I felt that a lot in my games, isn't there also a bug where you can't jump over pallets anymore?
It’s the same bug. Victor crashes into invisible walls if he tries to jump over a pallet, or if he tries to jump off any sort of high ledge. I’ve personally experienced both of these.
I’ve also heard he has issues jumping if another object is too close to him. I didn’t bother checking that, because honestly the 1st two issues I confirmed are bad enough that I refuse to play him anymore. The Twins streamers won’t play him anymore either.
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@saym said:
It is really a pity. There have been suggestions for new game modes on the forums in the past, but why did they choose this mode, which is the most boring? We have already experienced this mode with Dredge and it is not interesting. Also, the fact that it's dark means it's not suitable for streaming, and it won't be exciting for streaming.
- 5v5 -
• Two teams of 4 Survivors and 1 Killer face off to control the Generators
• Capture the Generators by moving Generator progress towards you team’s side in a tug of war gameplay
- 2v8 Party -
• 2 Killers against 8 Survivors
• Hooks are removed, but Cages of Atonement prevail
- Hide and Seek -
• No Generators
• No Hooks, only Moris when downed
• Stay alive for 5 minutes to escape through the exit gates
• Auras are revealed every couple of seconds
- Tag -
• A random Survivor is picked to be the Killer
• Down a player to swap roles
• Survivor 5 minutes and Escape
- Zombie Tag -
• A random Survivor is picked to be the Killer
• Down a player to swap roles
• Once a Survivor turns to a Killer, they cannot turn back
• Keep playing until only one Survivor remains
- Swapped Perspective -
• Killers plays in third person, while Survivors play in first person.
- Deceivers -
• Survivors work together to complete tasks before one or more “Deceiver” can kill everyone without being discovered
• Played in rounds with voting in between
- Disgustingly Scary -
• The Fog is thicker and shrouded in darkness
- Luck of the Draw -
• Start the game with randomized Perks and Items
- Giant -
• Sizes are altered! Killers are turned into giants, while Survivors become tiny
- Bumrush -
• More Generators spawn on the map
• Everyone moves at double speed
• Survivors have 3 lives from which they revive after a 20-second timer
- VIP -
• When the Obsession is killed, everyone dies
• Only the Obsession can open the gates for everyoneurvey to FINALLY get some alternatives to the stagnant, old and boring gameplay we have been used to for 7 very long years now.
Additionally, BHVR has said in the past that splitting the matching mode could split people up and slow down matching, and that they have no plans to split the matching mode into two: casual mode and ranked mode. However, now that the number of active users of DBD is decreasing, why do we divide the mode into two? If this is possible, it would be better to create an unranked mode and a ranked mode for a limited time, and give titles to the top players in the ranked mode, which would increase motivation.
This could be an experiment to see if the game can support multiple game modes. Slapping together a limited time game mode sounds like a great way to check if multiple game modes can exist in this game at the same time.
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@Beano744 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3635530#Comment_3635530
That looks like an issue with that Dredge skin. I went in and tested this on my own, and it's really not that bad. Not sure why yours looks so bad.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/WMAVH7PYDRXU/20240126121714-1.jpg
I don't see this as too much of an issue tbh.
1) The skin has ragdoll physics if the killer moves the camera quickly. It also covers more or less of the screen, depending on how high or low the camera is facing.
2) Your screenshot still has the skin covering like 20% of the screen? Really? You think that's fine? Would it be fine if BHVR caused injured survivors to have 20% of their screen covered in blood?
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@MrDrMedicman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3635369#Comment_3635369
https://youtu.be/Xy7Iuc-_0pA?si=SVvKAOk5nonT6fXs
And this is what? It's an old issue, and devs never address it
That's the forced short M1 attack mechanic, that can steal hits from the killer.
If a killer tries to lunge, the game constantly checks if the killer is "too close" to the survivor, and if the survivor is considered "too close", then it forbids the killer from lunging, and will either just make a forced short M1 attack, or it will cut the lunge short and convert it to a short M1 attack.
The problem is these proximity checks are completely separate from the actual hit validation check. So the game can forbid the killer from lunging, and then tell the killer their attack missed because the attack was too far away from the survivor.... but the attack could have hit if the game allowed the killer to lunge, which means this mechanic can steal hits from the killer.
I think there might be a 2nd problem with this mechanic, where it can trigger even if there is an object between the killer and survivor, which forces a short M1 attack... which just ends up hitting the object in front of the killer.
Of course, I've submitted a bug report over a year ago, and BHVR refuses to comment on it, so none of the players even know if this is a purposely made game mechanic, or if it's a bug.
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@Beano744 said:
I haven't personally tried out the FoV slider, I just wasn't interested, but I don't think it's the "bare minimum". They could've just not done anything and kept it exactly the same.
And the last part is really not a good idea imo... Sure some of the killers weapons are big, but like, the screen would be bare if they just removed them entirely. I really dislike that idea.
You don't think BHVR should at least make some of the weapons smaller, or force weapons to be closer to the edge of the screen? You think the below pictures are acceptable?
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@Beano744 said:
I just played some games as Twins, and I now understand why no one plays her. Victors clunky hitbox, unnecessarily slow animations, aggravating timing on Victor getting kicked, and the list goes on.
It doesn't seem like that big of a problem to just address the Twins' issues in a patch, just make them less clunky. Things like switching back and forth from Victor to Charlotte, like why after a hit with Victor do you need to stand there for 5 seconds before you can switch? And why have such a long period of being slowed after switching?
No one plays Twins now, because they’ve had a game breaking bug for over a month, where Victor crashes into invisible walls.
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@FreeKnives said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3635119#Comment_3635119
Well, that sounds like a more competitive type of gameplay... I understand what you mean about some noises overturned, like the bloodweb, but thats not gameplay, or Spies of the Shadows notification being the same as an unhooking notification....but thats more of "why are all notifications the same and same volume?"..... I can't comment on your opinion being wrong or right, but you are the first person Ive heard say they'd rather Trickster be silent.
This game is still a horror game. I know it has a very competitive side, with people calling out sectors that gens are in or changing the brightness so they can see better, just to be more competitive, and I guess we can include sound in that now. Maybe you would prefer to only hear survivors breathing and footsteps nothing else, but I definitely would not like that...I think Call of Duty has an "addon" that gives the player an advantage of muting all other sounds in the game except the opponent's footsteps........Again, its not that type of game, unless you are doing comp.
Say you could adjust sounds, which Im not saying is a bad thing, but could be an extreme advantage if overturned. I have to admit playing a game purely for competitive reasons is not that appealing for me personally. I enjoy the aesthetics and feel of a game just as much as the gameplay. I enjoy the sound of blades landing on a survivor (its music practically) I enjoy Tricksters laughter when he downs more than one person (I literally laugh every time I hear him laugh that way)....and his voice lines after being stunned, when he calls someone a motherf*cker (takes the words right out of my mouth), as well as other killers voice lines too. Singularity has good ones, and Chucky is kind of funny. I love the chase music of some of these killers too, from their POV and survivor POV. Sound design is just as important as character design. IMO.
Again, it sounds like you want no immersion sound, only competitive-driven sounds...even if you weren't asking for that extreme, most of the people I know enjoy Trickster sfx and voice lines. Luckily his music isn't too loud when you are chasing someone, unlike some killers, like Ghostface. So at least there is that. I dont think it should all go away but I am sorry that it's an annoyance for you.
I literally just want BHVR to stop making chase music purposely loud to hide survivor noises, and for them to stop make sound occlusion hide survivor noises as much as they do...... and for survivor noises to actually be consistent, because we all know some survivors make quiet vocal noises, and some cosmetics make quiet footstep noises, and it’s awful.
This game has such a garbage quality of life for killers, with anything involving hearing important noises, and we don’t need to make it worse just for the sake of killer immersion.
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@FreeKnives said:
The forum is deleting comments as I try to post them. So this may show up 3 times. Let me try posting it this way:
So no voice lines, and no feedback loop for you? I mean I guess, but I'm also not asking for anything crazy like flashbang noises lol. We are talking about fixing his voicelines, syncing animation, and feedback sfx. If you need to hear where survivors are and you are in the middle of Main Event....I would say maybe you are using Main Event too early? If you dont see them right in front of you and need to hear where they are.... I cant think of any reason why you need it quiet to hear a survivor while using Main Event. Also the Reverb wasn't loud...it was subtle and eerie.
Anything that adds extra noises, or more variable noises, is a nerf, because it makes it more difficult to hear survivors that aren't in line of sight. It doesn't matter if it subtle... it's still an extra layer of noise that hides survivor noises. And I don't think killers should talk at all during a game, because that can hide survivor noises too.
I always want to be aware of any survivors that might be near the killer. Maybe I'm chasing someone, and another survivor is hiding nearby. Maybe they're hiding nearby with a flashlight, and I need to be aware someone might try to interrupt me picking a survivor up. Maybe they're just plain hiding, but they are in a worse spot than the person I'm chasing, so I might want to switch to the hiding survivor. Sound occlusion is way overtuned in this game, and can extremely muffle noises... and any sort of extra noises from Trickster might mean the difference between hearing a survivor, and not being able to hear a survivor.
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@Peanits said:
Hey y’all, thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts. It’s clear that the changes we’re making to The Onryo didn’t live up to expectations, so we’re preparing a series of follow-up adjustments to address the feedback we’ve received. These adjustments are planned to release as part of the minor updates in the weeks following the Mid-Chapter. We’ll be sure to share more details once we have a plan locked in.
It's disappointing that it feels like BHVR gave us the absolute bare minimum for the FoV slider, instead of giving us an actual FoV range, that went up to something decent like 110 Horizontal FoV... and it's unlikely to change because there wasn't enough outrage on it.
Did BHVR really give us their best effort, to give us a good FoV slider, or did they purposely give us the bare minimum, to see if there was any outrage? If the intended Onryo changes can get reversed (or at least partially reversed), does that mean the FoV slider could have gotten better if enough people had complained about it?
This might literally be the only major quality of life or accessibility feature planned for killers for a very very long time, and it's really just going to be the very bare minimum possible? We can't test out a better FoV range, to see if it affects the kill rate too much? We can't just have a better FoV range, and balance the game accordingly if the kill rate moves too much?
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@Coffeecrashing said:
Killers are forbidden to lunge if they are too close to a survivor. It doesn't matter if a killer is holding a direction and the M1 button at the same time, because the game will force a short M1 tap attack if the killer tries to attack while right next to a survivor.
I'd even claim that many of the aim dressing complaints involve this short M1 tap bug, because if a killer is expecting to be able to do a full lunge attack, and they purposely turn their camera toward an object because lunges have zero object collision (and therefore they are expecting to be able to curve around objects with their lunge), that when the killer is forced into a short M1 tap attack, they can easily hit an object next to them and think the problem was aim dressing.
BHVR should also look into the possibility that the game might be forcing short M1 tap attacks, even though the survivor might be out of range by the time the hit validation snapshots are taken, which means that the forced short M1 tap attack might be stealing a hit, because the killer could have reached the survivor if they were allowed to lunge attack.
It’s the forced short M1 attack mechanic, that can steal hits from the killer.
And it was reported over a half year ago, and still hasn’t been acknowledged.
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Survivors also like to repeatedly vault the same window over and over against Cloaked Wraiths.
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@Mandy said:
We'll be looking to put out stats in the coming weeks, this one that we'll also likely address at that time.
I just wish BHVR would tell us what their goal is for the gap between solo q and SWF.
I think the current official BHVR statement is the gap is primarily due to teamwork, and not information. But we don’t know if BHVR plans on doing anything in the future to encourage solo q to have more teamwork, or if it’s an unsolvable problem because BHVR wants survivors to have to freedom to play “lone wolf” if they want to.
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@Coordi said:
If there's enough of a timer left and I won't enter the 2nd hook stage, a little spicy attempt to yeet is always fun. <3
If I walk up to a hooked survivor, and they make an unhook attempt in front of me, is it within the game rules for me to just walk away from the hook, and refuse to unhook that survivor?
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Probably not too high. And they just blamed players on Reddit AMA event instead of fixing the issue.
If survivor escape rate is around 40%, probably most of them is coming from SWF teams. Solo teams are just here to feed kill rates.
It’s correct to blame the players. Ragequitters, lone wolf survivors, and survivors that are ok throwing the entire game for a personal challenge… are far more damaging to solo q than the lack of information.
Giving solo q more information won’t stop survivors from wasting 5 minutes searching the entire map for totems, because they have a challenge to cleanse totems. Giving solo q more information won’t stop people from ragequitting, because the killer is Wraith, and that survivor thinks “stealth killers are boring”. Giving solo q more information won’t stop a lone wolf survivor from excessively hiding in a corner, waiting for all the other survivors to die, because they brought Wake up and Sole survivor, and their game strategy requires the other survivors to die.
As long as survivors are allowed to be as selfish as possible, and aren’t required to care at all about their teammates, solo q will have issues.
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@FreeKnives said:
Hey Trickster Community and BHVR,
So...I made another forum post. Actually 2, one to go to bug reporting, but one for open discussion, and because its feedback on the sound quality of Trickster at current versus Trickster at launch, and just an overall how I feel about the sound quality for Trickster at current. I wasn't there for Trickster's launch, but from watching videos, there's a lot that it feels we are missing out on sound-wise. I just wanted to share the comparison I did. I made some very short clips into a playlist on Youtube.
Here is the link to the Feedback and Forum post I made: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/403285/tricksters-sound-and-audio-design-the-good-the-bad-and-the-bhvr-what-is-this/p1?new=1
It shows clips for different sound designs that I think are missing or that are better. How sfx's was affected by animation and basekit changes. If you have opinions or clips of your own to show anything to do with comparing old Trickster audio and sound design to now...feel free to check the forum out and add to it. I tried to look at everything people have been complaining about.
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But, if you have clips of just audio bugs and dont really care about the sound design of old or current. I did also post a version of this post in the bug section, to focus on bugs rather than the feedback.
If you want to add to just bug-related issues and not feedback related then this is the link for that post: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/403289/current-trickster-audio-and-animation-issues-this-is-a-mixture-of-feedback-and-bug-reporting#latest
(I mentioned the wink being missing from lobby)
I'd much rather have the current Trickster's sounds, than previous Trickster's sounds. I absolutely hate hate hate when killers have loud noises, that make it difficult to hear survivor noises, and previous Trickster was all that.
It's bad enough we have to suffer through purposely loud chase music, and purposely bad sound occlusion. I don't want to hear killers make unnecessary noises, that might make it more difficult to hear other nearby survivors that might be running around with flashlights or flashbangs. Or if survivors break line of sight while a knife is in the air, I don't want Trickster (or his knives) to make unnecessary noises that might make it more difficult to hear where the survivor is going after they break line of sight.
If I have to choose between "killer immersion" and "being able to hear survivors that aren't in line of sight", then I'm absolutely choosing "being able to hear survivors that aren't in line of sight".
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632834#Comment_3632834
It's probably because that range is tried and true. They KNOW Shadowborn's FOV works. There's videos out there of ppl who have tweaked the FOV scale to allow for more and it just kinda breaks things. You have floating hands and such.
BHVR directly told us they currently don’t plan on allowing FoV to go higher, which highly implies that the effort it takes to write the code, isn’t the problem.
Otherwise, it would have made more sense to tell us they plan on allowing FoV to go higher in the future, but it won’t be ready in the near future.
The much more likely explanation is that killer gameplay revolves around purposely bad game mechanics… like purposely bad FoV, purposely bad sound occlusion, and purposely bad chase music volume… so it’s important to give killers the lowest passable FoV possible. We should all remember that 103 horizontal FoV is still an absolutely horrible FoV for 1st person gameplay, and that it’s the bare minimum passable FoV for accessibility purposes, that BHVR could have implemented.
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I was hoping the FoV could go up to 110 horizontal FoV.
We got the most underwhelming FoV slider in the entire world. This has to be the smallest FoV range of any FoV slider ever. It really feels like BHVR wants to try as hard as possible to give killers the absolute bare minimum with this feature.
This is still the only major quality of life or accessibility feature announced for killers, and we got the bare minimum possible. It’s just so sad. Survivors got so much thought and effort placed into the Survivor HUD.. and killers basically got a Shadowborn toggle in their options menu. Yes, it’s technically an FoV slider, but I really think a lot of people were expecting a wider range, considering that’s how all the other FoV sliders work.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
It has been months since this perk nerfed. But it's still one of the most popular perks. Ofcourse it's not number 1 anymore but still so much use.
So my question is that: How often you are seeing Dead Hard in your games? And how you are feeling about it?
I'm still seeing it a lot, and it still feels as awful to play against than it did before the nerf, because the actual effect is exactly the same, and the only thing that changed is the maximum number of times the perk can be used per game.
We were promised we would be able to "react accordingly" to dead hard, and that never happened. We can still hit a dead hard, even though our screens never showed a dead hard animation..... and that's the absolute opposite of "react accordingly".
The problem of dead hard was never that "it worked on the first chase of the game". The problem is the actual effect of the perk itself, which was never addressed. It's still a free health state, with some latencies, and with some survivor reaction times.
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1) Implement AI to determine if a survivor is trying to bodyblock, and if they are, then disable DS
2) If a survivor gets healed a full health state, disable DS
3) If a survivor enters a locker, disable DS
4) DS can’t be used if exhausted
5) DS causes exhaustion
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3630720#Comment_3630720
No, you don't get what I mean.
The killer currently kicks for 2.5%. So if survivors can easily do 5% of repairs and then hide so the killer literally physically can't find them, they can just do that forever! Yeah, the killer gets infinite kicks, but that doesn't matter, this tactic still makes it impossible for the killer to win.
Excessive hiding is therefor surely the way to go on live servers and the absolute top strategy across the board.
So you agree that excessive hiding needs to be nerfed or punished somehow, because it makes it impossible for the killer to win?
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3630678#Comment_3630678
You're not kicking for 5% though, and if the killer is not able to start ANY chases, that means the killer gets 0 progress, while survivors still make some progress themselves! And a lot of regression perks like Pop and Surge would not come into play either!
This tactic sounds infallible!
It doesn’t matter when the killer kicks the generators. If the survivors are doing a strategy of “repair for short bursts to time, then excessively hide”, then eventually the generator progress will be high enough for the killer to kick, and this process can repeat itself until the generator is damage immune.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3630221#Comment_3630221
We've moved from one survivor managing to dodge the killer 8 times without ever being caught despite constantly hanging around the same area to a whole gaggle of 'em.
Killer competence in these scenarios keeps dropping and yet...
Also, if they can 'easily put in 5%+', then this'd be an unstoppable tactic in the current game. And yet no one pulls it off?
5% isn’t very powerful in the current game, because the current game doesn’t have damage immune generators. If survivors are only repairing in 5% bursts on live, then the killer can always just kick the generators and reverse that small amount of progress.
5% bursts of repairing is only powerful when generators can become damage immune, because that means any % of repairing, no matter how small, gets permanently locked in, and therefore can eventually reach 100% if the game extends long enough.
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Survivors should have a separate SWF MMR, that can be higher than their normal MMR if their win rates get boosted when they play in a SWF. This will help properly match survivors that play in coordinated SWFs, without affecting the players that aren’t leveraging their SWFs for extra game advantages.
SWF MMR calculations should also be weighted much more heavily on the highest MMR teammate, so that survivors don’t get easy MMR killers just because they brought a low MMR teammate.
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Chucky is locked into a terrible FoV, so I’ll pass on this killer.
Terrible FoV is terrible FoV. It doesn’t matter that I can see Chucky’s entire body, instead of giant hands floating on the sides of my screen. It’s still unacceptable FoV that we can’t even fix with Shadowborn or the FoV slider.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3629684#Comment_3629684
If they implement that, killers will just exploit the system by excessively moonwalking as they approach a generator to force survivors to use up their pre-leaving stacks (I trust you see the point I'm trying to make here)
1) No one said the mechanic had to be 100% perfect. BHVR seemed perfectly fine with slapping an 8 regression limit on generators, that builds up regardless of whether or not the killer is actively chasing survivors often. Killers could literally be committing to chases on every survivor they see, and their Surge perk could still be building up the 8 regression limit.
2) I like the idea of terror radius number reductions (whether it's basekit, or dynamic based on time elapsed since last chase) more anyway, since it's not directly giving survivors a debuff, but instead it just makes it more difficult for survivors to excessively pre-leave generators for extended periods of time.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3629821#Comment_3629821
Survivors have about an 8 second head start, which might be even longer if the killer needs to path around objects to get to the generator. The main point is the survivors will have a giant head start.
They can't use that 'giant head start' though, because they HAVE to walk. And they have to get around those objects same as the killer does.
And survivors aren't forced to literally run 100% of the time. Usually when survivors have a giant head start, they will alternate between running to a line of sight breaker, and walking to another line of sight breaker.
That does not work, because if they run, even for a second, they leave a trail that the killer can pick up on. And if the killer finds that trail, they're likely too close to hide from again.
And this strategy works because 1) the survivor is so far away that the sound occlusion will make the survivors completely silent on the killer's point of view, and 2) the survivor is so far away that they have time to alternate between running and walking to hide their path.
But if it would work like this, it would work under the current circumstances as well, and it simply doesn't.
You're building a scenario wherein the killer is flubbing really badly, and the survivors are executing an impossible strategy to absolute perfection.
Have you seriously never done the run/walk scratchmark thing, and you've never seen anyone else do this? Like you seriously just 100% run, and leave a solid trail of scratchmarks? And you seriously can't even understand how this strategy works?
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3629676#Comment_3629676
How are the survivors going to pull that off though? You can't walk all the way out of danger, and if you run, you leave a trail.
Survivors have about an 8 second head start, which might be even longer if the killer needs to path around objects to get to the generator. The main point is the survivors will have a giant head start.
And survivors aren't forced to literally run 100% of the time. Usually when survivors have a giant head start, they will alternate between running to a line of sight breaker, and walking to another line of sight breaker. When survivors do this strategy, there will be gaps in the scratchmarks, and the killer needs to guess which direction the survivor went, and if they guess wrong even once, there is a good chance the scratchmarks will be gone before the killer can guess the correct direction.
And this strategy works because 1) the survivor is so far away that the sound occlusion will make the survivors completely silent on the killer's point of view, and 2) the survivor is so far away that they have time to alternate between running and walking to hide their path.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3629673#Comment_3629673
Punish survivor for "pre leaving Gen". You want survivors just to sit for a grab or a free hit.
How close is appropriate to you that survivors should leave Gen so you dont call "pre leave"? 8m? Coup the grace lung range? Demo Shred? Punishment of the damn?
Maybe BHVR can count the number of times survivors, on average, leave a generator without getting in a chase, add a few to that number, and have the punishment happen there. Survivors seemed perfectly fine when BHVR used that logic to create damage immune generators.
And like I said before, BHVR could alternately just lower the terror radius values, to give survivors less warning. Or have the terror radius numbers temporarily be lowered, if the killer hasn't been in a chase after a certain amount of time. Maybe the terror radius numbers can be dynamic, where eventually they get really low if it has been a very long time without a chase, to help the killer get into the next chase.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3629504#Comment_3629504
You never double back even once to throw a survivor off? You never look around the area they cannot have left without leaving scratch marks?
You're just going to auto-pilot between three gens for ten minutes while never actually putting in any effort to find a survivor?
None of that works for low mobility killers, that can’t hide their terror radius, if survivors are pre leaving generators when the terror radius lights up, and hides until the terror radius goes away. There’s no “sneaking up” on survivors when the terror radius can give a 7 second warning to survivors.
Alternately, the terror radius numbers should be decreased, to give survivors less prior warning to pre leave generators.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3629577#Comment_3629577
The correct play against high MMR killers is sit on Gen and wait for a grab.
I never said survivors should do that. I said there should be a punishment for survivors that are excessively hiding or excessively pre leaving generators.
It’s like how BHVR made a punishment for killers that facecamped, where there’s an actual punishment. And it’s like the anti-3 gen, where there’s an actual punishment.
Similarly, there should be an actual punishment, for survivors that are excessively pre leaving generators so early that the killer doesn’t ever see any trace of them, which resets when they enter a chase with the killer.
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The game validates lunges more than once. The first set of validations, is to check if the killer is allowed to lunge, or if a killer lunge needs to immediately turn into a forced short M1 attack.
There is a COMPELTELY SEPARATE hit validation for whether or not the M1 attack hits the survivor, and that is what causes the stolen hits. The game can forbid the killer from lunging, or forcibly end a lunge early, but then tell the killer the attack missed because the survivor was too far away to hit.
The game should only validate M1 attacks once. This means that if the game forbids a killer to lunge, or forcibly ends their lunge early, then the game should automatically give the killer the hit. There shouldn't be this multiple validation garbage, especially if the proximity validations are done on the killer side (instead of the server side), which means that latency would make it extra worse.
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@Revvium said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3629619#Comment_3629619
This isn't even just frustration from the survivors perspective btw, if you want to choose the "correct option" as Trickster, whether that be m1 or m2, you first have to go through a 10 page checklist to determine if the knives lose value, if they do then you have to m1 or concede that you're playing inoptimal because you like the knives.
I love using the knives, and having to force myself to give up on them should never be where we are on the design. If a survivor runs a shack or main building tile at peak play then you cannot use your power and that's such a bad feeling. It gives you the feeling of that survivor having taken your power from you.
Not just that but if you accidentally make the wrong choice, you have either lost a main event or you have lost distance. There's zero incentivization for being really good at knives if you can just bait people to focus on adjusting for knives and then forcing an m1. This is the core of why the addons now feel lackluster. The base-kit relies on m1 or optimal main event usage, which creates a "samey" gameplay loop which deteriorates any hard work that people had previously put into making the base power good based on love for the kit.
Main event happens too much, the non main-event knives feel weaker than m1 and the killer never ever can be lost in chase barring a stealth perk. Enabling a tunneling machine of a killer with no soul left to speak of. I have thousands of hours in Trickster and I play this killer 10+ hrs a day and have whenever I am not taking a break. This design came at a time where I felt really hyped to come back to DBD and I've been trying desperately to like this version as much as the old version - I cannot enjoy this version nearly as much as I enjoyed 6 knife or even 4.4 8 knife trickster. This is for a variety of reasons, but ultimately the knives have lost their oomph. I no longer feel like the knives have any heft to them and that makes them feel meaningless to throw.
I wish I had the energy to keep ranting about how much I dislike not being able to pressure people at range anymore but I'm just tired and I've been posting on the forums almost every day in hopes that we get changes that bring him back in line with what we were originally given a few years ago. I'm losing hope on any changes coming, and I may have to just shelve Trickster - It's devastating.
Main event is how Trickster is supposed to pressure survivors at range. Against survivors that know how to micro dodge knives, main event is the only practical way to do this because it doesn’t use up ammo.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3629534#Comment_3629534
I didnt say anything about skill... Or you mean chase survivors requires skill, which you refuse to ever make one because you dont have it?
People just trying to tell you to make a chase. All you complaining is survivors dont just sit there to get a hit. Can you tell what you want survivors to do at that point?
Both sides of the game should have some encouragement to interact with the other side, or some punishment if they excessively refuse to interact with the other side. This shouldn't be 100% the burden of the killer, to chase survivors, even if the survivors are literally never anywhere near the generators when the killer patrols by them.
Yes, there are survivors that pre leave generators at the first sight of a visual terror radius, and runs far away and hides until the terror radius goes away, and if it's a low mobility killer that can't hide their terror radius, then this cycle can just keep going and going, where the killer just never finds anyone. And this is sometimes even worse if it's a SWF, and they are using voice comms to relay the killer's location. Why is that strategy acceptable?
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3629504#Comment_3629504
go to Gen 1
if (survivors sit there for a free hit = true)
{hit survivors}
else if (survivors run away from gen = true)
{leave Gen 1; go to Gen 2}
if (survivors sit there for a free hit = true)
{hit survivors}
else if (survivors run away from gen = true)
{leave Gen 2; go to Gen 3}
if (survivors sit there for a free hit = true)
{hit survivors}
else if (survivors run away from gen = true)
{leave Gen 3; go to Gen 1}
I could code a bot to play like you.
It doesn't take a lot of skill to repair generators in short bursts, and excessively pre-leave generators. You could probably code a bot to do that strategy too.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3629170#Comment_3629170
The real concern should have involved what happens if survivors were literally trying to force 8 regression events, by repairing in short bursts and excessively hiding.We have a major double standard, where it’s absolutely believable that killers would go through extreme lengths to win games, but most people think it’s super unbelievable that survivors would be willing to go through extreme lengths to win games.But how would that happen? Not talking ethics or game enjoyment, just purely how do people pull this off while going for a win.
On the double standard, I absolutely agree with the idea that survivors would go to extreme lengths to win a game, but why would these be a viable approach and how is it different than the game right now?
In the game right now survivors can go to a gen, work on it, and immediately hide as soon as they hear the terror radius / their SWF tells them the killer is coming. They can then come back out and work on the gen after the killer has left.
Under the current system, the survivors will finish the gens. Under the new system, survivors will finish the gens. Survivor gen speed far outpaces the killers ability to reset it.
At least the idea of a mass amount of surges in one area is something I could hypothetically see happening. I just think it would be incredibly rare and, even in that event, the killer has probably won the match anyway. I just don't see from a math standpoint how this can be a valid tactic.
Survivors might do it to bully the killer, just to prove they could, but they could do that anyway right now.
Often in the current game, this ends up being an extended 3-gen, because the survivors are pre-leaving generators early and often, and the killer isn't chasing the survivors that are pre-leaving the generators early.
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Twins are currently unplayable, because Victor likes to bounce off of invisible walls, and BHVR refuses to acknowledge this bug, even though it's so consistent and easy to recreate, that they obviously could have seen this bug if they literally took 3 minutes to check it out.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3629317#Comment_3629317
3 gen is still a viable strategy if you use the 3 close gens to capitalise on their proximity and actually chase and score downs. Having 3 gens close together means survivors will be forced to reveal themselves.
3 gens are a problem when the killer refuses to commit to chases and just holds the gens down, preventing either side from progressing.
But it really doesn't mean that survivors will be forced to reveal themselves. It only takes 4.5 seconds of repairing (and even less if it's more than 1 person) to reverse regression, and unless the last 3 generators are literally all within line of sight of each other, survivors could just repair in tiny bursts, and be long gone before the killer can reach that generator.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3629088#Comment_3629088
I think the concerns have dropped a little over the past few days at least. I'd give four possibilities that I don't think are unique to killers:
1: People don't like math. This is why discussions tended to dead end when people actually tried to lay the scenarios where all of the regression events would be eaten up. Conceptually it was easy to say 'well, if I have eruption I need only this many downs' without actually looking at how much time would be spent between activations.
2: People treat new game mechanics like they've violated a set of sacred rules. This was like the AFC, even if triggers once by accident every couple of months, its not like the killer's account gets banned and the game is immediately forfeit. As much as we say we want new things, people become apocalyptic when a new thing is proposed.
3: Even before the change was announced, many killers had gotten the mindset that the 3 gen mechanic was coming to take away their ability to play the game. It's hard to get rid of a mindset if you've already embraced it, even if objectively the change with the increase kick damage / no gen tapping is a buff.
4: People take BHVR statements way too literally. BHVR said they wanted this to only impact Killers who 3 genned from the start. Many seem to have treated this as a vow and not a design goal.
I will give credit to @RpTheHotrod - he at least provided a video as requested by the OP and noted it was unusual. I was beginning to think we weren't going to get any instances of it happening.
The concerns dropped because the popular concern was never really valid. People aren’t often doing 8+ regression events on the same generator, in normal gameplay.
The real concern should have involved what happens if survivors were literally trying to force 8 regression events, by repairing in short bursts and excessively hiding.
We have a major double standard, where it’s absolutely believable that killers would go through extreme lengths to win games, but most people think it’s super unbelievable that survivors would be willing to go through extreme lengths to win games.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3627614#Comment_3627614
I'm pretty sure it's a side effect of an existing feature. Lunges, as far as I can tell, end immediately when you touch a survivor, turning into a swing. If you're already touching a survivor when you try to lunge, that effect kicks in immediately.
Not sure how that can cost you a hit though.
The game validates lunges more than once. The first set of validations, is to check if the killer is allowed to lunge, or if a killer lunge needs to immediately turn into a forced short M1 attack.
There is a COMPELTELY SEPARATE hit validation for whether or not the M1 attack hits the survivor, and that is what causes the stolen hits. The game can forbid the killer from lunging, or forcibly end a lunge early, but then tell the killer the attack missed because the survivor was too far away to hit.
The game should only validate M1 attacks once. This means that if the game forbids a killer to lunge, or forcibly ends their lunge early, then the game should automatically give the killer the hit. There shouldn't be this multiple validation garbage, especially if the proximity validations are done on the killer side (instead of the server side), which means that latency would make it extra worse.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3627599#Comment_3627599
So, a bug. Anything else?
Still hasn't been confirmed as a bug. It might be an actual game mechanic, for all anyone knows. BHVR has refused to comment on this for months, so it remains a top secret thing in this game, that can steal hits from killers.
Why? Why hasn't BHVR commented on it yet? Is it there on purpose so that survivors can feel like they "outplayed" the killer? Is it a bug that's so difficult to fix, that BHVR won't even comment on it?
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3627508#Comment_3627508
Survs "issues" always have higher priority than killers. FOV slider is the first thin Killers got across the board since the big shakeup in 2022.
What issues do killers have, across the board, that need to be addressed?
The FoV slider is pretty much the only thing on that list, and that's now gone. What else do you want BHVR to do, that is not balance related?
Killers are forbidden to lunge if they are too close to a survivor, which can steal hits.
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@Revvium said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3627017#Comment_3627017
There are no stats to prove any of this and the majority of complaints atm are not at all about powerlevel but about the feeling of the character being lacking compared to previous versions and the horrendous amount of visual and audio bugs. gameplay may be in a relatively balanced state but balance is not the problem with the update imo.
The majority of the complaints are people just wanting the reworked to be reverted. That's not a valid option. We had current Trickster long enough to know he wasn't a good fit for the game.
And visual and audio bugs aren't feedback... they're bug reports.
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@LordHeXaGoN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3626675#Comment_3626675
I loved originial trickster, I loved him for himself, not for any other character.
Closed distance damage, that he could apply very fast, especially with main event it was uncounterable.
And now radio silence from devs, make me think that they just forgot about our cuty k-pop serial killer.
Nah, how obvious that was.
I don’t think Trickster has been forgotten. I think his kill rates have stabilized to a much better range, that he’s much easier to use for console, and the bulk of complaints about “reworked Trickster being too overpowered” have stopped.
I think the rework was considered to be successful, and Trickster is on maintenance mode right now. And this is why this post isn’t pinned anymore.
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@Firellius said:
We got Scavenger for toolboxes, Residual Manifest and now Champion of Light for flashlights...
But the items that have completely fallen out of use have not had any perks made for them. Not even a stinky 'If you're the last survivor alive, the next chest you open is guaranteed to contain a usable key' or something like that. Why are the good items getting love and the bad items getting nothing?
Ragequitters and lone wolf survivors are the biggest problem with solo q right now. We don’t need a perk that makes lone wolf gameplay even more powerful, by giving them a useable key that they can use after excessively hiding and watching their teammates die.
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@WelshTomz said:
Since you need to repair the gen 5% to stop the gen regressing, I feel like having a visual indicator similar to brand new part would be a good idea, which shows you when you can get off the gen safely without it regressing.
This would be helpful because as a survivor it would prevent some awkward situations were u just want to repair the gen 5% when the killer is nearby to stop regression.
This would prevent situations getting off a gen 1 second to early for example, as a QOL update.
So you basically want to repair for the minimum amount of time, then run off to hide, and if the killer kicks the gen, you’ll just repeat this until the generator is damage immune?
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What new stuff was said in Discord, that wasn’t directly mentioned in the developer notes?