Coffeecrashing
Coffeecrashing
About
- Username
- Coffeecrashing
- Joined
- Visits
- 0
- Last Active
- —
Comments
-
@Halloulle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624741#Comment_3624741
...Because from a surv pov it's always more reliable and faster to not have a three gen.
So what happens if survivors accidentally make a 3 gen, and then decide their strategy is to purposely repair the 3 gen in short bursts of time, and excessively hide, until the generators become damage immune?
-
@Halloulle said:
I have no clue why survs would intentionally three gen themselves to wait out the eight burst events on a gen. - But assuming the killer actually downed and hooked survivors before they got to the last gen most of the big regression perks should already have been proc-ed on the other gens; painres and pop, first and foremost. And if you got downs before they made it down to eight gens then you'll surely get enough downs before you reached your regression cap on one of the three remaining gens.
Though I do see where there's abuse-potential for stuff like Surge. - But that also seems to have an easy fix: regression events only start counting once a gen has progressed past 15 charges for the first time. So a gen that effectively isn't even progressed keeps its events. And as for Eruption; it should be easy enough to make it one regression event, since the gens are already marked as having Eruption applied to them, if the game can remember that then it can also remember to not take a second regression event.
I have no clue why it’s so believable that killers are willing to extend games to extreme lengths to defend a 3 gen, but it’s unbelievable that survivors would extend games to extreme lengths to break a 3 gen.
Also, if people honestly don’t think there wouldn’t be survivors that would purposely repair generators in short bursts and excessively hide, until the generators are damage immune… then we all should be fine if BHVR adds something in the game to prevent or punish survivors that are specifically trying to do that.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3623730#Comment_3623730
I don't know, man, this seems like a really, really unlikely scenario.
If that ever happens, I don't even think adjusting this system is even the right call for fixing it? Surely the better option would be to improve killer tracking, both through perks and the basekit.
I'll be honest, this seems like a giant stretch.Even if survivors do this, it's still within the killer's power to stop them by just choosing not to defend that generator cluster. It's not even throwing, that's honestly better in general.
So if survivors do this strategy, your advice is to just “not to defend that generator cluster”? Does that mean the killer is supposed to just give up?
-
@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3623686#Comment_3623686
You think survivors are going to waste all that time on the first gen?
Survivors already do this, it leads to a stalemate or the killer eventually loses.
If you're playing killer well you should be slowing repairs down by presuring survivors via injurying/hooks, not religiously kicking gens until everyone dies of boredom.
I’m saying survivors could do this strategy at ANY POINT IN THE GAME. Maybe they’ll purposely create a 3-gen, then use this strategy at the end of the game to break the 3-gen. Maybe they’ll start the game with this strategy. Maybe they’ll primarily focus on the easy generators, but will make sure to place 4.5 seconds of progress on the 3-gen, to help start the damage immunity on the 3-gen.
And it’s absolutely world shattering that you could take a scenario of “survivors are literally repairing for 4.5 seconds, then excessively hiding”, and turn it into “the killer is making everyone die of boredom by religiously kicking generators”.
How are most killers supposed to find survivors, if the survivors are literally excessively hiding far away from generators? Are killers supposed to check behind every single object on the entire map? This game is currently balanced around the fact that excessively hiding causes a stalemate, or “excessively long 3-gen” as some people like to call it. Under the new anti-3 gen mechanic, excessively hiding would be rewarded by damage immune generators, which means the survivors get rewarded for excessively hiding.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3623686#Comment_3623686
So why's that a problem?
That's only if they're at one gen remaining, so you've had the rest of the match to get work done, and in the worst case scenario you'd just chase a survivor and let the gen get done, since the survivor is your objective and the generator isn't. What's the issue here?
The “short bursts of repairing + excessive hiding” strategy also works at the very beginning of the game.
And there’s no “just chase a survivor”, if the survivors are literally just repairing for only 4.5 seconds, then running far away until the killer has patrolled past the generator. Against many killers, the survivors can use their voice comms, or the visual terror radius, to excessively hide from the killer.
Im already playing against many survivors that pre-leave generators at the first sign of a terror radius. This anti 3 gen mechanic just makes that the optimal way to break any 3-gen, at any point in the game.
And another survivor strategy would literally be “hide around the map, and repair various generators for 4.5 seconds, then hide some more”. Imagine how frustrating it would be, as killer, to just patrol generators over and over, and never finding survivors, and instead finding barely any progress on any of the generators. This would be a valid strategy, because eventually the generators would become damage immune if the killer tried to kick them repeatedly.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3623659#Comment_3623659
Right, but doesn't that kind of assume that the killer isn't doing anything to like... stop them?
They still need to get to one gen remaining to even start the process you're describing. That's a pretty big chunk of the match, probably about half of the overall time you spend playing. The killer doesn't achieve anything in this time, doesn't get anyone killed, doesn't create deadzones, doesn't observe patterns in what gens the survivors are prioritising, doesn't have perks to help slow the game down...?
Honestly, even if we assume this scenario you're describing happens, what's stopping the killer from just committing to a down, letting the survivors finish the last generator if necessary, and making the rest of their play during the endgame?
I don't see this as a real problem with the proposed system. Maybe one in a thousand games you have to put yourself in a slightly worse position by prioritising a survivor instead of gen defence, but even then, it's not like you're being forced to throw or anything.
@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3623659#Comment_3623659
That would be far less efficient than simply breaking a 3 gen early on like you should do as a survivor.
Survivors can use the “short bursts of repair + excessive hiding” strategy, to break a 3-gen at the start of the game.
In this scenario, the only generators the survivors are repairing are the 3-gen. And since it only takes 4.5 seconds to lock in generator progress (and it’s even less than 4.5 seconds if multiple survivors are repairing the same generator), if the 3 gen isn’t all in line of sight of each other, many killers won’t be able to patrol them fast enough to catch the survivors anywhere near the generators.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3623607#Comment_3623607
I'm not sure how this strategy could even come about unless the killer's protecting a 3-gen early on, though?
If you're being active and getting work done as killer, those survivors aren't even going to be in position to try that when there's one generator left.
Overly-stealthy survivors can be annoying to face, sure, but I don't see this change making that any worse.
Coordinated teams could purposely target the easiest generators first, and purposely leave a 3-gen for the end. In other words, a coordinated team might find a 3-gen, and purposely refuse to touch any of those 3 generators, until all the other generators have been repaired.
I thought we were told this new mechanic would only punish killers that purposely tried to defend a 3-gen from the start of the game? This new mechanic can clearly punish killers, even if the survivors were purposely creating a 3-gen.
-
@Peanits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3623507#Comment_3623507
I can confirm this is how the regression works, in case anyone's uncertain!
I truly honestly don’t understand how this is fair, if coordinated survivors decide the optimal strategy is to extend the game to 30+ minutes by repairing a 3-gen in short bursts, then hiding very far away.
When survivors are excessively hiding, then the problem isn’t that killers are refusing to commit to a chase. Instead, the problem is the killers keep patrolling generators over and over, and repeatedly find zero survivors and zero scratchmarks, and the survivors will be so far away from the generators that it’s unrealistic for many of the killers to be able to find them without the help of tracking perks.
@GentlemanFridge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3623462#Comment_3623462
Doesn't Nowhere to Hide hard counter this exact strategy?
No. Once survivors figure out that perk is in the game, they’ll repair for a minimum of 4.5 seconds, then will literally run so far away from the generator that Nowhere to Hide won’t reveal them.
And if the killer is forbidden to kick generators that can’t be damaged anymore, then the survivors won’t even need to worry about that perk being used on damage-immune generators.
-
Excessive hiding will be the strongest counter play for 3-gens.
Coordinated survivors will be able to repair generators in short bursts of time (at least 4.5 seconds), then run far away to hide, and wait for the killer to patrol by, and potentially kick the generator. The survivors can then just repeat this over and over, until the killer is forbidden to kick those generators anymore, at which point they can continue the “short burst of repairing + hiding” strategy, until the generator is fully repaired.
The 3-gen solution was supposed to fix the “way too long” game lengths, but instead will make it the optimal strategy for survivors to extend the game to enormous lengths, to repair the last generator at minimal risk to themselves.
-
@Revvium said:
I believe snipe and slow style can be enabled through addons very easily. reintroducing things like original Death Throes Compilation could help in enabling that style, but there's a lot of room for it.
Addons that enable:
-Increased damage at long range
-lower laceration meter in exchange for being 4.4 m/s
-never missing making you more efficient ( as currently going for never-miss playstyle is simply inefficient)
also addons that amplify or have effects that affect you always however have special effects if you reach high combo level have the potential to add addons that give both playstyles very interesting variety. Hopefully BHVR is taking note here because there's a LOT of very good ideas that I think are circulating on this character from all sides. We all want our playstyles to matter, but a good baseline that allows for each playstyle to exist to a small extent in the base-kit and then "Fine tune" with addons is just the best avenue to take with the killer. any mechanic that punishes instead of encourages is very antithetical to this thought process and i believe seeks to keep one playstyle prevalent while underpowering all other playstyles (which i believe is kinda unfun and dull) also i want to say that some addons simply don't add anything to the kit and just add problems for both sides.
-Laceration Duration addons are annoying and frustrating to depend on so i encourage people to never run them, they feel extremely bad to get used to and then stop playing with. also playing against these addons sucks, laceration meter decay should be static and 15s is completely a good number as its worked in every iteration of the design. I propose these addons be turned into "snipe enabling addons" adding damage if you make a shot past 20 meters or so. Most of the time sniping is a massive waste of time because you cannot reliably pressure survivors that cut line of sight if you don't keep on top of them.
-Edge of revival is extremely undertuned for 8 knife trickster, the solution here i think is tricky because adding size to this addon may be problematic, i suggest adding a bonus effect for high combo and buffing laceration damage to 100% for the splash as opposed to .5 because as it stands this addon only wastes ammo and mathematically wastes a TON of potential main event charges.
-Cut thru single is currently very undertuned for 8 knife trickster as well, i think its value will go up with the addition of rolling some of tequila's value into basekit and nerfing main event addons to compensate because this addon should be just fine assuming our basekit doesn't rely on overtuned addons ( currently main event duration addons are way too valuable but just nerfing them would leave us in a very sad state)
-USB and ammo addons suck right now, i propose buffing these to 16 for boa, 10 for trickpouch, and usb to a higher percentage. With the increase of ammo saving we must make on main event we realistically reload way less than before, adding some raw number values to these addons wouldn't break anything and buff up the more patient (worse in terms of power level) strategy without requiring buffing of ammo capacity to basekit ( i dont think our basekit needs it)
-Soda and Ji woons with ramping can just go directly back into ramp up speed, this current version could even use a higher evaluation of these since our addon dependency has taken a sharp increase. more main events would mean that ramping would be less important, thus increasing these addons compared to previous iterations would be very good. perhaps 3 less knives to reach max and 2 less knives to reach maximum throw rate. (this would solidify a strong rapidfire basekit and allow for a capstone 4 kps for people that want such a thing without giving those styles additional addon multipliers off of it)
-Memento Blades can be 4.4 m/s movespeed and 6 knife to lacerate meter, requiring an addon in order to enable a style that may catch people off guard but is still very niche i think is fair, it being a common would allow for tricksters who miss this style to have their style frequently (if they like it, not all do but i miss it sometimes)
-Trickblades is fine, it's a good addon and always is decent for practiced tricksters and super interesting and i believe the pinnacle of trickster addons design, wish we had more of these types of addons with the caveat that we couldn't use multiple different "styles" of knife altering addons together. Trickblades is super fun, and it only helps us to a large degree on maps that are historically hard for trickster anyway.
-Death throes compilation can go back to its ORIGINAL version that enabled "never miss style" its very clear that current D.T.C. feels bland and unrewarding as a pickup on the bloodweb, especially since we have diamond cufflinks which fills a similar niche.
-Killing part chords and Shoes can honestly be higher values but be EXCLUSIVE toward main event. Those of us who have been avid teachers of Trickster have acknowledged for the longest time that while this addon combo is FUN for some, it encourages bad habits. Main event being more common now allows for this addon to be useful as a main event speed boost without encouraging super bad habits and overall making people have a worse time due to creating a dependency and muscle memory punishment.
-Tequila, inferno wires, waiting for you watch, lucky blade are overtuned as of this moment because our basekit doesnt have enough main event duration, these addons likely need tuning down (flat duration a large nerf, likely half value whereas waiting for you watch requires the enemy to be disregarding your main event to see its oni-snowball style value could use a SLIGHT nerf due to it not being super powerful, yet funny when it sees its infinite main event popoff moment) this doesn't happen every game but i'd not like to see it completely be eradicated because its neat and fun!
I think this covers all addons, but one thing is certain- main even being super common requires an oni-style notifcation. There's easy fixes to this current version that allow for all of the Trickster playstyles to be catered to without completely throwing this version out of the window.
PLEASE FORGIVE ME IM SO BAD AT FORMATTING LOL -Revium <3
I don't think both styles can co-exist, because you AGAIN decided to super nerf Memento Blades, just for your own personal playstyle. You are fully aware of how many people like the current effect of Memento Blades, yet you repeatedly try to rip that addon away from us.
And the movement speed addons are important for many console players, or other people that just aren’t very good at aiming, because it allows people to try to use his M2 often, without feeling like they’re getting overly punished for trying to use his M2. Saying it “teaches bad habits” is sort of shaming people that just want to play a character that they might not be super good at. These addons lower the barrier of entry for Trickster, which is a good thing.
And the movement speed addons aren’t “taking skill away” from the killer, because the people using these addons aren’t super good at aiming, which means they are using these addons for quality of life purposes. Nerfing or reworking these addons isn’t likely to force these people to “get better” at the killer. It’s more likely it would cause these people to use his M2 much less, feel like his M2 is not worth using, and just stop playing the killer.
I think it’s important to have at least one ranged character that’s beginner friendly, because many new players have experience with FPS games, where the primary attacks involve projectiles, but before Trickster’s rework, all the projectile killers in DBD were so clunky and purposely difficult for new players, that it causes a barrier of entry problem for this game. Yes, it would be even better if BHVR could find a way to make Huntress beginner friendly, since she is a default character, but the Trickster rework was a good start.
-
@sluc16 said:
I am sick of missing hit after hit just because survivor do this stupid little zig zag motion and that's it, hit falls short and completely misses even tho survivor is right there in front of you, doesn't matter I am fully pressing the hit button, swing just stops in a fraction of a second and hits nothing, is absolutely ridiculous.
That’s the forced short M1 attack mechanic, that can steal hits from the killer. The game forbids a killer from doing a lunge attack if they game thinks the killer is “too close” to a survivor, which means this game has double hit validation for lunges, which can steal hits from the killer.
This happens to PC players too.
-
Billy should be way lower. The actual mental skill of "can I hit a survivor if I make a single quick turn" is very very low. Almost the entire "skill" involved is just having the muscle memory and dexterity, to control Billy during the curve window. That's it. Yes, there is some "does this object have collision" knowledge, but chances are, if an object is in a loop, it's there on purpose to stop Blight and Billy's M2.
The whole "Billy was perfect, and well loved by all survivors, and took the highest skill to master" meme needs to get thrown in the trash. It's difficult to win matches with Billy because his M2 is garbage against the newer maps, which have way less "smooth vertical walls at 90 degree angles" that the older maps had. And we need to recognize the difference between "Billy takes the highest skill to do well" and "Billy is actual trash in the current game, so he often doesn't do well because he's trash". Yes, there are people that can win with Billy, but guess what, those people are good enough at the game to be winning with a wide variety of other lower tier killers too.
-
@Liozio said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3622856#Comment_3622856
OP does not like main event in general, why are people just ignoring what they're saying entirely?
1) Because frequent main events are absolutely mandatory, to give Trickster a rapid fire gameplay, and his own identity. Without a rapid fire gameplay, people are better of just playing Huntress, because she's much better at the "I need to carefully aim each and every shot" thing.
2) Because the OP just wants to make Youtube montages, which is completely useless for the rest of us, that want a killer that's actually decent. And by the way, I've been a Blight main long enough, to have seen A LOT of people sharing Youtube montages and video clips of SPICY HITS, to know how much they throw games away just for a chance at getting video content to share.
And the OP still can make Youtube montages with the current Trickster, so it's for the best that Trickster keeps his frequent main events, so the rest of us can have a killer that's not complete trash against survivors that know how to play against Trickster.
-
@Liozio said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3622592#Comment_3622592
If you think OPs ideas are garbage why engage? Its fine to agree to disagree. There's nothing constructive coming out of this.
Because if those changes are implemented, then Trickster would be absolute complete trash.
-
@StarstruckFrog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3622565#Comment_3622565
Current trickster only has rapid fire gameplay with an add-on.
My suggestion is a buff in basically every single regard, with main event being the sole exception. How is that not enough for you? Because you have a specific, dull, conceptual idea for the killer? And I instead just want a return to what already worked for years and was fun? Your logic makes no sense to me.
As I mentioned before, the entire point of rapid fire gameplay, is accepting the fact that Trickster shouldn't ever be expected to have 100%, or near 100% accuracy. So every single idea you create, that heavily punishes Trickster for missing, is garbage. And yes, frequent Main Events are a mandatory part of rapid fire gameplay, as it's the only time he can bother to try hitting survivors that aren't near him, because of how easy it is to micro dodge knives at mid to far ranges.
We already have a projectile killer that heavily encouraged to have 100% accuracy (Huntress), and Trickster needs to have rapid fire gameplay in order to have his own identity, and a reason to pick him instead of Huntress. And yes, people can make Youtube montages from Huntress hatchets, so "I want to make montages" isn't an good enough excuse to ruin Trickster for the rest of us.
-
@StarstruckFrog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3622406#Comment_3622406
Listen man, I understand you don't seem to like me or my ideas based on our various interactions. But the fact that in the many times we've talked you've never offered a single constructive idea to bounce back at me is pretty bothersome. You only defend current trickster and seem to dismiss the mere idea that he could be better, and FEEL better for both sides by a mile. I don't care that "old trickster was dark souls" and don't wanna hear nonsense comparisons like "Worse Huntress." I'm trying to have productive conversations here about a character I enjoyed playing.
Oh, and if you're "questioning if I'm a trickster main," I think my gameplay speaks for itself, thanks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhhCdKgwLiM
Regardless of all that, I think we just fundamentally disagree about the design of the character. I think Main Event in it's entirety adds nothing to Trickster's identity. It's not special. It's more of the same. It's fundamentally just throwing knives faster, which I don't think is hugely necessary with the re-implementation of trickster old throwing rate, which gets the job done much more effectively and with more control. Infinite ammo sustained fire is never going to be as interesting as the dynamic throw rate, which added so much to the character in my opinion.
That said, I agree that adding the penalty AND increasing the requirement to 12 was too much. But, I still do think there should be some way to lose stacks. Though to be honest: I don't know how exactly to get it right without sacrificing some add-on slots to just forever be duplicates, which I don't find fun. Initially I had it so that you'd only lose 1 charge per miss, but I was so creatively bankrupt when it came time to make add-ons that I couldn't think of a new one, so I increased it to 2 so I could have an excuse to make a new addon that decreased it.
Other than that, I'm not sure what else to say. I pretty much wholeheartedly maintain my core stance that 6-Knife Meter is the best route for the character, followed up by returning to his old throw rate, in exchange for main event taking a hit to it's usefulness. I also hate duplicate add-ons, so I tried to come up with as many unique ones as I could. Some of them were bad and hapless, I'll own that, but I also firmly believe you underestimate how obnoxiously easy Trick Blades are to use.
While yes the calculated shots the add-on allows are great, the add-on is commonly used by trickster players who don't put much effort into aiming, and instead opt to bring indoor maps and just spam in the general direction of a survivor hoping one will land. I added the range limit to encourage Trickster players to actually aim directly at Survs at medium range, and only use the ricochet effect when actually playing tiles in smart ways. I feel like that is more than fair given all the other buffs I want to see come to normal trickster, but I think the range could be increased to be fair.
After reading all the comments, I own the fact that my proposed rework here wasn't perfect, so I've taken the initiative and decided to revamp it again, simplifying it much more.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/XJP3S02I3U6I/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/HR4R0YXZL25O/image.png
This way, I get all the old basekit mechanics I loved, all the fun add-ons I like, every part of the kit is pretty strong but not overtuned, and you get your 15s decay back and better trick blades. Let me know if you have any problems with this and try to actually be constructive regardless of whether or not you disagree with some changes.
(Keep in mind Main Event's duration is very short now, but this is to compensate for the fact that you have to hit less knives during it for a health state than before. I feel like that's a worthy trade-off)
You're still heavily punishing killers for missing blades. I seriously hope BHVR ignores the entire thing.
I get it. You want to make Youtube montages, even if they involve survivors that clearly have zero idea on how to play against Trickster. But that's not practical, and doesn't help against survivors that know what they are doing.
Current Trickster is way better than your suggestions, because at least he somewhat has rapid fire gameplay, even if it often encourages Trickster to purposely injure a survivor at 6 or 7 stacks, so Trickster isn't on a time limit to activate main event... and it's super awkward that is often the optimal way to play Trickster.
-
@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3622514#Comment_3622514
The topic of discussion isn't the 3-gen solution, but those skill checks that pop up as you leave the gen.
Those are already a problem, except Overcharge which actually gives you the chance to hit the skill check, and the idea of increasing the chance of skill checks appearing every time someone leaves an unfinished generator would increase the amount of times this problem happens, punishing people who are doing nothing wrong.
And you can't commit to a generator while the killer is coming your way unless that generator is extremely close to being completed. That is just an unnecessary risk.
The overall discussion involves the reason WHY the failed skillchecks exist... and the reason they exist is to help discourage survivors from excessively leaving generators. So yes, the topic of survivors excessively leaving generators is very relevant.
@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3622549#Comment_3622549
- If you leave the generator during a skillcheck, it stays on the screen, just like overcharge.
This is clearly the better option, but i would be fine with both.
As far i know no killer likes the telekinetic overcharge skillcheck and i refuse to elaborate on the concept of that becoming the default mechanic. It lessens the threat of skillchecks by a huge margin.
The threat of a skillcheck by just randomly stop repairing should not be a thing.
That's a terrible idea, because many survivors can reliably hit those skill checks, which means they get to bypass the missed skillcheck mechanic.
-
@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3622433#Comment_3622433
There is no reason for a survivor to stay in plain sight if they know the killer is coming their way.
There's no reason for people to be repeatedly demanding a 3 gen solution, but expect for the solution to be a 100% nerf on killers. If killers should be punished or discouraging for not committing to chases with survivors, then there should also be something to punish or discouraging survivors for not committing to generators.
-
@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3622372#Comment_3622372
I disagree. Map is so small and outside of main building, loops are terrible bad. It had one of the highest kill rates, i don't know how this map is good
1) There’s so much visibility on this map, that SWFs will use voice comms to warn each other where the killer is.
2) Head On SWFs really like this map, because there are lockers in narrow places, so the killer can’t realistically follow a survivor and avoid being too close to a locker.
3) Boil Over SWFs really like this map, because if someone gets knocked down in the saloon’s 2nd floor side room, then it’s an absolute nightmare for a killer to get them on a hook.
TD;LR Surprise! The map is miserable for killers because of SWFs using voice comms for extra game advantages.
-
The failed skill check % should increase every time a survivor leaves an unfinished generator, to discourage them from excessively pre-leaving generators to hide.
-
@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3621713#Comment_3621713
Yeah I wasn't sure which direction he was going, so didn't crouch in case his vision was based on movement like a T-Rex lol
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3621861#Comment_3621861
Cheers. So the slider isn't something that would probably take a huge amount of adapting to from a survivors perspective?
The forced short M1 mechanic, that can steal hits from the killer, will still be in the game. And that's one of the biggest reasons why 360s and other FoV techs cause missed hits.
-
@OrangeBear said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3621564#Comment_3621564
You seem to be turning this into a us vs them thing :/
Important to note increased FOV is mainly a quality of life improvement because a lot of people have reported that playing without shadowborn makes them nauseous.
I think anything above shadowborn sounds excessive i mean at some point the vision will look unrealistic.
Most 3D PvP games go above shadowborn. Everyone needs to be aware this game has FoV values based off of horizontal FoV only, which means the actual FoV values are actually way lower than the FoV numbers the game tells us. And most 3D PvE games go above Shadowborn. I don’t think people realize just how awful bad the killer FoV is in this game.
At the very least, the FoV slider should have horizontal and vertical options. Because Shadowborn is still really awful vertical FoV.
-
@Nazzzak said:
So is this the sort of thing that a FOV slider will help killers with? I just don't know how he missed me
It might depend on whether or not the FoV slider is horizontal + vertical, or just horizontal.
-
@OrangeBear said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3621530#Comment_3621530
I'm pretty sure Mandy has referred to the feature as basekit shadowborn before.
They said it's taking a long time because there's more work they have to do. What that work is idk. Probably adjusting the first person animations because there is a lot of jankiness you can see with some killers.
It would be such a massive disappointment, if this ends up just being a horizontal FoV slider between base FoV and Shadowborn FoV.
Are people going to really tell me, that it's cool to spend a lot of time and effort to create an entirely new Survivor HUD, a visual terror radius, a visual lullaby radius, an anti-face camp mechanic, and an anti-3-gen mechanic........ but killers only get a super fancy slider that only goes up to Shadowborn?
For reals???? Does anyone realize how bad Shadowborn FoV is, compared to other PvP games, because DBD goes by Horizontal FOV values??? The FoV slider should at least have the options to change the horizontal AND vertical FoV values.
-
@OrangeBear said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3621509#Comment_3621509
Yes but the maximum FOV is going to be the fov that you currently get with shadowborn.
If you mean them showing the fov change in game with settings. I mean maybe i feel like not many people will find it very interesting since it's more of a technical thing.
BHVR never told us what the max FoV will be. And it would be a massive disappointment, if the FoV slider only goes up to Shadowborn, considering how long it took to create this feature.
If the slider is only going to Shadowborn level, then BHVR could have saved us a bunch of time, and just released a Shadowborn toggle in the option menu, months ago.
-
@OrangeBear said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3621378#Comment_3621378
What would than even look like though it's basically just going to be basekit shadowborn
We were told this will be a fully functioning FoV slider, which is why it took so long to implement. So the teaser could just be a screenshot, from the killer's point of view, of an FoV that currently isn't in the game.
-
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3621375#Comment_3621375
"You can play with friends but don't you dare talk to them"
You can't even regulate it, and people who hate it are ridiculous, so once again the better example would be MMR
The whole point of the thought experiment was to ask if BHVR would make a similar “it was never fully accepted” reply, if the topic exclusively benefitted survivors. So MMR would be a poor example.
-
I just wanted a teaser for the FoV slider. For reals, how was Billy and Ormond a higher teaser priority than the FoV slider?
-
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3621344#Comment_3621344
No, because it's always been a vast minority of people who have absolutely railed against people playing with friends.
Almost every reasonable person understands that the game needs that to survive.
A better example would be about MMR, tbh.
1) “Playing with friends” and “using voice comms for extra game advantages” are completely different things
2) People can be supportive of “playing with friends”, but still dislike the extra game advantages that voice comms can give.
3) It’s possible to dislike voice comms being used for game advantages, and not be “absolutely railed” against people playing with friends.
-
@Skitten56 said:
Knowing BHVR they are just going to take what is one of the most balanced maps in the game and make it smaller and likely less balanced. Its a large map sure but it is balanced by its large deadzones and easy visibility. Killers just need to be strategic on it and know that if they are a low mobility killer they need to write off some corner gens to reduce the patrol area while also taking full advantage of large deadzones that are made.
And that’s exactly the problem with the map. If there’s going to be anti-3 gen, that will punish killers for “writing off” the corner gens, then the map shouldn’t have any corner gens that are so far away that they should be “written off”.
-
@Peanits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3620917#Comment_3620917
This is just an objective answer to the original question. It has never been truly accepted by players. No matter how far back you go, as long as tunneling as a concept has existed, there have been people who were unhappy with it. There was never a time where it was unanimously liked and there's a long line of discussions documenting it.
This is not an opinion of myself or the team - in fact I do my best to avoid saying anything opinionated because frankly that's not why I'm here
(and the fewer people I can have at my throat the better). My role here is to take feedback, read discussions, and clarify where I can. You're right that people look to us as representatives, but I would hate to see us avoid any difficult topics because of it. I would much rather see the forums as a place where developers and players can discuss things openly.There is always a chance that someone will read something we say and interpret it to mean something different, but we can't let that keep us from talking to y'all. To be perfectly clear, we do not speak in riddles. There is no hidden message between the lines. When we acknowledge that something has always been contentious, that's all there is to the message. That does not say whether or not we like it, whether or not it's here to stay, or whether or not we agree with it - it's simply acknowledging that disagreements about it have always existed.
I think the issue is whether or not you are willing to make a similar statement if the roles were reversed.
For example, if someone asks whether or not voice comms were more acceptable in the past compared to now, would you make a reply, reminding everyone that voice comms were never truly accepted by players?
-
If there’s going to be an anti 3 gen mechanic, then most of the maps need to get rebalanced, right?
If people are expecting for BHVR to stop generators from spawning too close together, then they should also stop generators from spawning too far apart, and smaller maps make la that easier to do.
-
@BlightedTrapper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3620830#Comment_3620830
I highly suspect overheat was added purely so addons would have more variables to alter. Because without overheat, all you can really change is charge, turn, and sprint speed.
Overheat was added because some Billy players would just 99% chainsaw during chases, for extended periods of time, waiting for an opportunity to curve. And some Billy players would just facecamp a survivor with a 99% chainsaw the entire time.
-
@Ryuhi said:
honestly I hope his new chainsaw is quieter and has fixed animations
Billy without overheat was the most obnoxious killer in the entire game, because of the constant chainsaw revving noises. I absolutely hated Billy players that would just spam 99% chainsaws during chases, which caused my headphones to get blasted by constant BRRRMMMMRMMMRMM BRRRMMRMMRMMM BBBRRRRMMMRMMMRMMMMMMMRMMRMRM noises.
For real the chainsaw revving noises need to get toned down on the survivor side.
-
@Peanits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3610499#Comment_3610499
It's not so much that it's impossible to do something like this, but rather that this wouldn't fix the problem, just shift it. If someone has decided that they absolutely do not care to continue the match, there is nothing we can do to change that. No amount of penalties or preventative measures will suddenly make them want to keep playing. Even if we prevent them from trying to unhook themselves, nothing stops them from then running directly to the Killer to get downed and rehooked as quickly as possible, or from whipping out their phone and watching some videos as they wait for the match to finish. Either way, the end result is the same. You've still got a teammate who isn't doing anything, only now the other Survivors might accidentally waste time saving them and the Killer has an easy way to activate whatever hook-based perks they may be running.
In reality, people letting themselves die on the hook is not the problem, it's a symptom of the problem. Fixing a symptom doesn't make the issue go away, it just resurfaces in a different way (e.g. going AFK, running at the Killer, etc.). The real problem is they don't feel the need to finish the match.
That doesn't mean it's impossible, though. There are likely some creative ways to discourage abandoning a match, but it's not as simple as disabling the ability to unhook yourself.
Has BHVR ever considered giving frequent ragequitters a higher priority to match with other frequent ragequitters?
-
@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619932#Comment_3619932
Do you really think BHVR will look at this post, accept the suggestions, then pick the only one which doesn't involve a choice?
I am a not a developer, mate. I don't have power to make changes to this game. And even if I did I made it clear on the post that I have no intention of hurting someone else's experience.
If you have a problem with that suggestion and that suggestion only, fair enough. But don't act like it is all I've said here. A better option can be picked.
If you had no intentions of hurting someone else's experience, then you wouldn't have made a suggestion that's non-optional, and would have FORCED other people to suffer through those old maps.
It doesn't matter if you gave other suggestions. The fact that you honestly think it's a good suggestion to FORCE people to play old maps, proves that you would be fine if player experiences are ruined.
-
@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619902#Comment_3619902
Please read the full post before commenting.
Two of three suggestions involve a choice, you wouldn't see anything you don't want to.
Three out of three suggestions should involve a choice. The fact that you're even considering that other people should be forced to suffer through the old maps, makes this whole thing a terrible idea that should never happen.
-
@GeneralV said:
There have been some discussions recently regarding the horror aspect (or lack of one) in Dead by Daylight. And whenever one of those discussions pops up, the maps are also mentioned.
And for good reason! The maps are the very heart of the horror atmosphere. And when that heart stops beating well... we look at you, reworked Coldwind Farm.
With the Realm Beyond close to claiming its final victim, I believe it is time we discuss the possibility of the old maps coming back to the game. And I'll make something very clear for those of you who enjoy the map reworks:
I am not asking for them to be removed.
Remember that I lost my favorite killer. I am heavily against taking away the things people cherish.
But I don't think the situation is okay for players like me, who loved those old maps. Or perhaps new players who wished they could play on those maps. Right now you click on an Old DBD video, you immediately feel saudade (translated from Portuguese, "saudade" refers to an emotional state of melancholic or profoundly nostalgic longing for a beloved yet absent something or someone), but when you go play DBD your favorite map isn't there anymore.
And I want to change that.
There are many ways to bring the old maps back, some easier than others. I haven't thought of a definitive solution yet, but I did think of some options: perhaps BHVR can add a "classic mode", since we've recently saw their ideas for alternate game modes. It could go as far as to add old powers / perks and add-ons, but that is just a suggestion.
Or perhaps a "classic pack". We know for a fact the game supports people playing on the same map with different lighting, as modders literally did that. They could add the option for us to choose between old and new maps, just making it clear you might put yourself in a disadvantage by doing so. I certainly wouldn't mind.
Or just say "screw it" and add them into the regular rotation. That also works, I suppose.
As long as we don't take away anything that people enjoy, I see no harm in giving us the game we loved back.
We just need to find a way of doing so.
I never ever want to play on one of the older maps, with their garbage looking color filters, where the entire maps are literally one super saturated color. If older maps get added back to the game, they should be custom mode only, so that it never affects me.
@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3618561#Comment_3618561
There is food for thought here, but it is best suited for another post.
The idea here wasn't to discuss horror and its variations, but to collectively come up with an idea to bring the old maps back without hurting anyone else's experience.
I just don't like reworked Coldwind Farm, I don't think it fits within what I think DBD should be. This is an opinion, but so is every take here on the Forums.
And that's the main problem. Unless the older maps are a completely optional thing, that doesn't affect the main game mode at all, it would absolutely hurt my playing experience.
-
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619549#Comment_3619549
If the killer doesn't know which survivors have DS, and doesn't even know if anyone is even running DS, then yes, the best option is to tunnel and immediately pick people up, to burn through any potential DS. Then the best option is to double down and tunnel that survivor, because that survivor already used their DS if they had it.
Yes, after eating the DS, there's no reason not to tunnel anymore.
And if there's no DS in the first place, there's also no reason not to tunnel.
If anything, you are currently arguing that DS needs an even bigger stun, because it is currently not enough to properly function as a tunnelling deterrent! If you are arguing that eating the DS and just flatly tunnelling your way through it, then that proves that DS is not strong enough to do its job!
Otherwise it'd click that tunnelling is made worse by the presence of DS, and thus disincentivises tunnelling, not incentivises it.
Again, how do you compare 'Tunnelling' to 'Tunnelling, but you get smacked with a 5 second stun' and say that the second option is the better pick? Because that is legitimately what you are doing by saying that DS incentivises tunnelling!
Why on earth should a killer respect DS, if they don't even know if a survivor is running DS? The odds are, over the course of many games, that the killer is better off not respecting DS, because there will be many times when a killer picks up a survivor, that survivor didn't have DS, and the killer can just throw them on a hook.
That's why it needs to go back to what it was. Where it was so ubiquitous that you were pretty much guaranteed to get smacked with a 5 second stun if you decided to tunnel. Because then it worked as anti-tunnel.
Now, with a paltry 3 seconds that most killers will just eat through without much trouble, no one picks it anymore, and thus there's no reason for any killer to ever think twice about tunnelling.
If BHVR could find a solution, where they completely removed weaponization from DS, without punishing survivors that were actually getting tunneled, would you accept that?
-
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619509#Comment_3619509
Also, DS was nerfed because off the record was being presented as a healthier anti-tunnel perk.
Nope, DS was nerfed because it had a high pick-rate. And OTR is not a healthier anti-tunnel perk, actually. It is, in fact, worse for both sides of the fence. It's better for bodyblocking since it doesn't incapacitate the survivor using it, and it can be disabled by tunnelling hard enough.
Also, DS encouraged tunneling, because the optimal play was to immediately pick up anyone that might have DS, maybe eat a DS, then hard tunnel that person out of the game because the DS is out of the way. It's bad strategy to try to ignore a survivor because they might have DS, or to slug a survivor because they might have DS, because the killer doesn't actually know if the survivor has DS. And yes, there were people that pretended like they had DS, to see if they could bait the killer into leaving them slugged on the ground.
And then what? Waste half a minute of their own time? Pull their fellow survivors off their gens to come to their rescue? This is an incredibly wasteful play that just throws the match for the survivors.
DS did not encourage tunnelling at all. The only thing it changed about tunnelling is that, for one hookstate, tunnelling was met with a 5 second stun-wall, that's it. That doesn't encourage tunnelling, that makes tunnelling flatly less efficient, by a margin of a five second stun.
How are you going to compare 'tunnelling' to 'tunnelling, except you get smacked in the face with a 5 second stun' and say 'Yeah, that second one is clearly the better option'?
If the killer doesn't know which survivors have DS, and doesn't even know if anyone is even running DS, then yes, the best option is to tunnel and immediately pick people up, to burn through any potential DS. Then the best option is to double down and tunnel that survivor, because that survivor already used their DS if they had it.
And yes, if I eat a DS, then it absolutely encourages me to tunnel that survivor, because I already ate their DS, and I have no idea if anyone else has DS.
Why on earth should a killer respect DS, if they don't even know if a survivor is running DS? The odds are, over the course of many games, that the killer is better off not respecting DS, because there will be many times when a killer picks up a survivor, that survivor didn't have DS, and the killer can just throw them on a hook.
-
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619504#Comment_3619504
But it's 3 seconds now versus 0 before. So why isn't it being used MORE?
It's 3 seconds compared to 5 seconds.
Also, DS was nerfed because off the record was being presented as a healthier anti-tunnel perk.
Also, DS encouraged tunneling, because the optimal play was to immediately pick up anyone that might have DS, maybe eat a DS, then hard tunnel that person out of the game because the DS is out of the way. It's bad strategy to try to ignore a survivor because they might have DS, or to slug a survivor because they might have DS, because the killer doesn't actually know if the survivor has DS. And yes, there were people that pretended like they had DS, to see if they could bait the killer into leaving them slugged on the ground.
-
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619483#Comment_3619483
No, it was very popular and wasn't widely weaponized. With how high its pickrate was, you'd expect to see it 'weaponised' every match, but it was a rarity. Over the course of hundreds of killer matches played, I fell for it once and then punished maybe half a dozen survivors for trying to bait me.
Ironically, nothing about the way it was changed actually addressed this weaponisation. You can still use it in the way that folks are claiming was the only reason it was being picked up. So why aren't people using DS to bodyblock bait now? If anything, it should be MORE effective right now, since no one picks DS up anymore so killers are infinitely more likely to eat the stun!
So why isn't it being used that way now?
The fact that it's now 3 seconds addressed the weaponization. The perk needs to stay weak, unless BHVR can find a way to address the weaponization issue.
And besides, we now have buckle up + FTP, which is a much more powerful at extending chases.
-
@PyramidFootLicker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619005#Comment_3619005
Why does it not matter that distortion is great in certain situations? Because by that logic we can apply that to any perk in any certain situation because distortion is VERY situational and just because you happen to have the right build for the right instance once in a while doesn't mean that the perk is broken.
Off the record gives endurance which is way stronger than plain distortion which does not give the player themselves any form of gameplay advantage other than not being detected through aura reading for a short time. And again LOCKERS exist, you say it rewards hiding but lockers do that way better than distortion and are accessible easily, and it doesn't matter if you're running scream perks and killers with killer instinct and pretty much any stealth killer because that perk doesn't bother them.
It hasn't changed in almost a year, survivors are just adapting to killer perks and these are the most situational perks because non aura reading builds are not affected at all, and every killer can run non aura builds.
Distortion isn't "VERY situational". In most games the killer can't reliably burn through all the stacks, and even if they did, that was still 3 times the aura was blocked. A perk doesn't need to be active for literally the entire game in order for it to be considered useful.
And Off the record is an example of how stealth perks should work. Notice how it has a clearly defined limited duration, so it's anti-tunnel.
Stealth perks should either be "helps to escape chase" or "anti-tunnel". Stealth perks should not be "encourages survivor to excessively hide the entire game".
-
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619439#Comment_3619439
"5 second DS was a problem, because many people were weaponizing it. That's the reason it got the conspicuous action nerf. And when survivors STILL weaponized the perk, it's why it ultimately got the duration nerfed."
No, it got the duration nerfed because it was a highly picked perk. Same reason Ruin got gutted. It had nothing to do with it being 'weaponised' after the conspic nerf, that was never even brought up as an issue because it's incredibly easy to circumvent.
"And it needs to disable on entering a locker, because that prevents the killer from being able to slug the survivor. If people honestly want to say "just slug the DS survivor", then the killer needs the option to actually slug the DS survivor."
Why do you get to have that kind of control over an ANTI-TUNNEL perk when you are TUNNELLING? You want to tunnel like that, eat the stun.
It was a popular perk because it could be weaponized. That's what a lot of people want. A perk that's anti-tunnel... but if the killer isn't tunneling, then the perk can still be weaponized against the killer so it's "not wasted".
If DS were changed so that it was truly only an anti-tunnel perk, that it wouldn't be as popular, because survivors would complain that "in some games it wouldn't get any value".
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619368#Comment_3619368
Well, hang on- why is slugging them unacceptable? It's both denying them value + giving you value, and it's a situation that we could be in right now without DS at all. OTR would actually help the survivor trying to do that by blocking them going down, but DS wouldn't do anything - couldn't be considered weaponised, to be clear - until the killer picks them up, which isn't guaranteed to happen.
I don't see how that's an unacceptable outcome. It's a situation you could be in right now, and it isn't giving the survivor team very much value at all. It's a win/win for the killer and the survivors gain, what, a few seconds of distance on one of the two people being occupied by the killer?
As to your second point, I already addressed that. People are concerned about false positives on top of the fact that weaponising DS is extremely hard if not impossible with its current design, so calls to nerf its capacity for weaponising (which is already very negligible) could easily end up weakening the perk for its intended purpose.
If a survivor is purposely bodyblocking, or otherwise purposely trying to bait the killer into eating a DS, then they aren't being tunneled. DS is supposed to be an ANTI TUNNEL perk. Slugging is unacceptable, because it's basically giving the other survivor an extra health state, because the killer has to waste an attack on someone else.
Let's be honest. People are concerned that they might not be able to weaponize the perk. I'm sure BHVR could find some way to determine if a DS user is the primary chase target, or if the killer is chasing someone else, and the DS user keeps following the primary chase target instead of running in a different direction. And if BHVR couldn't figure that out, then having false positives would be better than allowing survivors to weaponize a perk that shouldn't be weaponized.
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619362#Comment_3619362
There were many people that were still weaponizing the perk after the conspicious action nerf, so there were a bunch of people that still thought it was a good idea.
IF the killer takes the bait, it does work out for the survivors. But any competent killer will only fall for it once and never again. And from that point onwards, trying to 'weaponise' DS is just throwing. So some people will try to take that gamble, and a lot of them will get themselves and the other survivors killed over it.
We've had 5 second DS for over a year, in which it was not even remotely a problem. For some reason, people are now needling a perk that's been proven to be healthy for gameplay to cramp it and restrain it as much as possible. Introducing new fail states to try and save the one killer that just slams that spacebar the moment they get a down without any kind of thought.
Survivors perks are allowed to do a thing. They don't all have to be No Mithers and Autodidacts.
I don't even agree with the locker disable. Why would it disable on entering the locker? The only way that that is a problem is if the killer is tunnelling, so why would it disable under that circumstance?
5 second DS was a problem, because many people were weaponizing it. That's the reason it got the conspicuous action nerf. And when survivors STILL weaponized the perk, it's why it ultimately got the duration nerfed.
And it needs to disable on entering a locker, because that prevents the killer from being able to slug the survivor. If people honestly want to say "just slug the DS survivor", then the killer needs the option to actually slug the DS survivor.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619362#Comment_3619362
There were many people who tried to weaponise the perk after the conspicuous actions nerf. The only ones who ever succeeded did so because the killer took the bait, it's always avoidable from the killer side and it's actually a benefit to the killer side, since it's someone messing around trying and failing to bait you into a chase.
Buckle Up + For The People is its own problem. That needs to be fixed regardless of how long DS stuns you for.
Aggressive body blocking isn't always avoidable. Sometimes the survivor is blocking a narrow path. And "just hit the DS survivor, and leave them slugged on the ground" is unacceptable, because that still counts as being weaponized.
If you honestly think weaponizing the perk is a bad idea, then you should be fine if that part gets nerfed some more, because it obviously wouldn't affect you, right?
-
@D0NN1ED4RK0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619205#Comment_3619205
I can assure you not everyone who was using this perk was in a SWF if they fully knew what they were doing
and also the reply has nothing to do with Ultimate weapon it’s just a reminder that a perk doesn’t need high pickrates in order to be overpowered
OoO was the strongest tool as it always gave you info on the killers whereabouts yet it had downsides and always had low pickrates but in the end it still needed and deserved its nerf
OOO was absolutely way more useful in a 3-4 SWF with voice comms, which is why the pick rate was low.
If Ultimate Weapon is the most overpowered info perk, then why is the pick rate low? We have SO MANY forum threads complaining about killers being super sweaty, and purposely tryharding, and everything else, but for whatever mysterious reason they aren't all flocking to Ultimate Weapon???? What is the secret?!?
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619193#Comment_3619193
It's attempting to weaponise the perk, which is a slightly different thing.
With the Conspicuous Actions nerf, any survivor who tries to weaponise DS is throwing. Speaking from the killer perspective, the statement "If DS gets a 5 second stun again, survivors will try to weaponise it" doesn't scare me off, since you're just telling me that my games are going to be easier due to more survivors throwing the match to try (and fail) to get value from weaponised DS.
The only change I'd personally make is making any save a Conspicuous Action, since you're not being tunnelled if someone else has been downed and picked up. Other than that, the current implementation is perfectly suited to combat weaponising the perk, so the stun duration can be safely buffed without worry about it becoming a problem.
To touch on the idea that "if you want to use it as an anti-tunnel perk you shouldn't care if it gets nerfed for weaponising", I think that's a fair statement that simply misses something: False positives. Take bodyblocking- there's no way of guaranteeing you won't end up having your DS deactivated just because you're hit close to your teammate post-unhook, which is pretty common when you're being tunnelled. Considering that, and the fact that DS is incredibly hard to weaponise without throwing (basically impossible if the killer doesn't fall for the bait), I think it's fair to object to the idea that weaponising the perk needs to be "fixed".
There were many people that were still weaponizing the perk after the conspicious action nerf, so there were a bunch of people that still thought it was a good idea.
And, we all need to remember that buckle up + FTP is now in the game, which means there will be SWFs that absolutely would weaponize DS if it was brought back to 5 seconds, just so they can combo it in as an actual health state. SWFs with voice comms was always where weaponized DS was the most obnoxious.
-
@D0NN1ED4RK0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619196#Comment_3619196
“If this really is an overpowered perk, then why is the pickrate still super low?”
Old object of obsession says hi
The original poster is claiming Ultimate Weapon is "the strongest information tool in the game". How is that true if the pick rate is so low?
Old object of obsession was only broken in 3-people and 4-people SWFs with voice comms, which is a low percentage of the game players.
-
Meanwhile, Ultimate Weapon STILL isn't in the top 3 killer tracking perks. STILL ISN'T TOP 3! Why are we even comparing this to Windows of Opportunity, is which literally the most picked perk in the entire game? Like around 33.333% of survivors use Windows, and less than 10% of killers are using Ultimate Weapon?
If this really is an overpowered perk, then why is the pickrate still super low? If someone told me that Shadowborn is more popular than Ultimate Weapon, I'd totally believe it.