Coffeecrashing
Coffeecrashing
About
- Username
- Coffeecrashing
- Joined
- Visits
- 0
- Last Active
- —
Comments
-
@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3610079#Comment_3610079
The developers said themselves they were happy with the way Hillbilly was performing. There was never any reason for a nerf, especially not curving.
You can ask around here if you want to. The majority will agree that his nerf was not needed.
1) Developers are allowed to change their minds over time.
2) The majority won't agree, as the majority won't even comment on this. Instead, we'll get Billy's fanclub rushing in to tell us the nerfs were unnecessary. Most people don't rush in to comment about Billy, because they're happy that Billy is garbage when most people play him.
3) Billy's curving was a problem with the maps back then. It was nerfed for a reason. It was nerfed for the same reason that Blight's large angle flicks were nerfed, and the same reason why Chucky's large angle flicks were nerfed. It just created way too many situations where the M2 power was a free hit.
-
@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3610039#Comment_3610039
I'll have to strongly disagree on overheat being necessary.
Hillbilly was the golden child of DBD Killer balance, the one character everyone liked to go against. They took that character, and ruined him.
There is a reason why his rework is widely hated. I guarantee only a minority of players felt like Billy needed a nerf. A very small minority, in fact.
He really wasn't the one character everyone liked to go against. Curving was mostly just "can you control a killer's movement for the short period of time where the game gives you something like 9,000 DPI". It was mostly just muscle memory.
And now that we have the map reworks with the awful collision, he needs to worry about that... but so does Blight, and Blight has a much higher skill ceiling because Blight sometimes needs to plan bump paths, which is much more involved than "I want to curve around an object".
TD;LR Billy's skill ceiling was always massively overrated, and didn't justify how powerful curving used to be.
-
@BlightedDolphin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3609948#Comment_3609948
Yeah that may have been a bit extreme of me to say. Sorry. I don't think he needed any changes outside of insta-saw though and his traversal was fine. His Overheat has been changed to point now where it doesn't really have much impact anymore and he's still pretty bad so I don't think Billy was ever an issue outside of insta-saw.
I still think it was unnecessary and that they only nerfed him because he was a hot topic for a few months.
Overheat was a necessary nerf because maps used to be filled with loops that were curve-able.
The actual reason why overheat was partially un-nerfed was because the anti-Blight map updates removed most of the curve-able loops.
Does everyone remember that most loops used to literally be smooth vertical objects with perfect 90 degree angles?
-
@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3609402#Comment_3609402
Those are symptoms of a larger problem. There have always been rage quitters and lone wolf players in team games, but if players are to be believed that these are becoming more and more frequent then it suggests a driving force somewhere. IMO it stems from matchmaking issues. They can slap bandaids all they like but eventually something is gonna give.
The larger problem is that ragequitting penalties are super weak, and the survivor win condition isn't team based.
The only way this could be matchmaking issues, is if we expect that matchmaking should throw the frequent ragequitters and lone wolf survivors together, so they aren't ruining games for the survivors that actually want to work together as a team.
-
Ragequitters and lone wolf survivors are way more damaging to solo q, than the lack of voice comm information.
-
@Kunuto said:
When I play killer I play with a clear set of codex/rules:
- Everyone hangs once before anyone hangs twice
- No one hangs twice in a row unless it is hang nr. 4 and 5
- No one dies before everyone has been hanged twice
- Leave room for unhooks, don't knock down any individual going for the unhook
- I allow myself to knock down survivors just to buy time/keep survivors busy, but I don't hook them
- Any survivor that fails to unhook someone that could have been saved is off my codex, and becomes a target of me not necessarily playing nice. If one die then all die (quickly), unless they were not able to perform a unhooking at the time (like if they were in a dying states, as an example)
- If I survivors reach 2 gens left and my progress as a killer is bad then I allow myself to take the gloves off, and play more dirty, codex is pushed aside
- If I use a survivor to get another survivor, then the survivor I use gets to escape (like if there are three survivors left; one is hooked, one is hidden and the last is on the ground with me. The hidden one hides instead of going for the unhook. The hooked die on hook, I pick up the survivor on the ground near me, let him (or her) wiggle off, then I go find the one survivor that could have performed the unhook, kill that survivor, and then let the last survivor escape, because I kept him (or her) alive to get to the one that failed the unhook.)
- Probably a couple more points but I can't remember right now as I'm tired.
Usually when I play a survivor I feel that most of the killers I meet play without a mind, most killers just feels empty to go up against. I rarely meet killers that seems to have a plan going on, other than the huge amount of tunnellers and campers, there are a lot of those. (If that can even be called a plan. I just see it as a ######### low skill way to play the game. Lol.)
But yeah, are there any other killers our there with a "codex"? Or is it just me?
What is your giant list of codex rules that you follow when you play survivor?
-
I really did try this newest version of Trickster, but I also think that requiring 8 knives is still a massive nerf to Trickster.
As I mentioned before, if the survivor isn’t close, I’m not using rapid fire. And this isn’t entirely because of recoil, it’s also because the knives actually have different aiming spots, depending if the knife is being thrown from the left hand or the right hand, and I need to make that micro adjustment in between each throw.
And I did confirm that if I do try to rapid fire a survivor that’s not close, and I’m not in main event, that I just run out of knives too quickly. The knife hitboxes are so tiny, and they have travel time, and even the bots are good at micro dodging them. My accuracy rate on rapid fire is nowhere near 100%, and that’s not because of improper aiming. It’s because you need predict where the survivor is going, and do the projectile wiggle thing that Plague uses, where you send out the projectiles is a small spread. And small spread means you will be missing a lot of knives.
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3608463#Comment_3608463
rightfully so. it is such bad response.
How do you expect people to heal if they cannot tell where their teammate is on the map? Healing is group-action. Telling me on UI that someone is injured is irrelevant if i don't know where the person is to heal. Empathy/Bond
How do I know what pallet my teammate dropped in killer chase if I have 0 aura on the pallet drop? Window of opportunity helps with this. Giving me UI that my teammate is being chased is not helping me know where my teammate is dropping pallets.
What about going for hook saves? How do i know if my teammate will save that person on hook across the map with 0 aura? (Kindred)
there answer: "our current stance is that lack of information is not the crux of the problem," Information what allow you to do teamwork actions. Soloq doesn't help each other. no kidding, there is 0 base-kit aura reading to do any of these actions properly.
This is not even going into other macro elements like... bodyblocking, flashlight saving, sabo, looping away from teammates that are on generators, knowing what your teammate brought as perk so you can count on them to use said perk to deal with x situation.
what a terrible answer.
I’m fine with the answer of “the problem with solo q is they don’t work together as often”, because that is a major problem with solo q.
What I’m not fine with, is the “we don’t want to do anything to fix this problem, because survivors should be able to play the game how they want”.
Does this mean we’re officially done with bridging the gap between solo q and SWF? If the official problem is lack of teamwork, but BHVR doesn’t want to fix that…. then we’re done bridging the gap?
-
@appleas said:
Didn’t they also nerf Victor’s interaction with a dropped pallet by increasing the distance he had to be from the pallet to pounce over it?
I guess Victor jumping across pallets to down Survivors was too gamebreaking.
Twins are currently unplayable, because Victor keeps hitting invisible walls in the middle of the air.
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3608680#Comment_3608680
BHVR sometimes doesn't understand how their game works, see DM and other times they do, see Wesker or Chucky.
I do think they intend to not nerf or buff Twins, their power level is fine. They're just not fun to play as or against
If slugging is heavily nerfed, but Twins aren’t given a better alternative option, then Twins will be even less fun to play.
-
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3608469#Comment_3608469
Considering the mentioned viability in the same answer, I think you have to be willfully ignorant to think that they don't intend to give them other good playstyles.
Now, to be clear, I make no promises on the RESULTS, only the intent.
Do you live and thrive on semantics?
If the RESULTS are Twins getting a heavy nerf to slugging, and not having a better alternative, then the rework will be garbage.
-
@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3608493#Comment_3608493
There’s 0 chance that the Twins will be strong after the rework.
If BHVR is planning on giving Twins a better option than slugging, they could just tell us. They wouldn't have to go into detail of what the change would be, but they could at least give us the peace of mind that they want to actually give Twins a better option than slugging.
-
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3608355#Comment_3608355
Can we please not go after Oni? I'm a console Oni main so i don't have the PC flicks but Oni is a much more balanced killer than Blight. Oni has a slow start and require m1 skill. His power lasts 45 seconds and loses time for every down. He is the definition of balanced. His power isn't free and he takes hard work to learn. Blight and Nurse are examples of free crazy free power but Oni is a strong killer done right. Please leave Oni alone 😔
Oni could get the same large angle turn nerf that Blight got. And if you're on console, you shouldn't notice a nerf like that, because consoles have really bad camera turning rates, and can't do large angle flicks.
-
@Mandy said:
Encouraging people to play in a certain way is very difficult, we give perks to survivors to counter tunnelling - has that encouraged killers not to tunnel for example?
You can only do so much, you can give people the tools, it's up to them how they use them.
We even have perks for those that do not want to play as a team, Sole Survivor comes to mind.
I don't understand why BHVR gives players perks that help enable lone wolf builds. I understand that people are free to play the game how they want, but actively giving survivors anti-team perks feels like it's just causing frustration for many players on both sides of the game.
-
@Foempticol said:
Their response got a ton of downvotes (rightfully so). Even Otz commented on it
I don't understand why we aren't getting updates to encourage solo q survivors to work together. BHVR literally just said that is what they feel is the main gap between solo q and SWF, so obviously they should we working on this, right? Does BHVR still want to bridge the gap between solo q and SWF?
I understand BHVR gave an answer that many people didn't like, but if we got updates to encourage teamwork, that would be great, right?
-
@Pulsar said:
Both bait and us vs them.
Incredible.
They specifically point out the most optimal way of playing Twins is via slugging, which is frankly, unrewarding for both the Killer and Survivor. They then state that they wish to change their kit to give them other ways to be played viably.
Only someone intent on misrepresenting their words could've gotten, "BHVR hates Killers and disregards all their feedback, they favor Survivor Etc etc"
That's not what BHVR said at all. The direct quote is "change the kit to encourage other kinds of play styles more", which doesn't promise Twins getting anything as a better option. It could very well mean that the change is mostly a big nerf to slugging, and Twins will be encouraged to slug less because slugging is getting nerfed.
-
@jesterkind said:
...Eh?
Isn't it pretty commonly stated that people don't like playing Twins because they don't like feeling forced into slugging as often as they kinda have to in order to utilise that kit properly? Wouldn't BHVR pretty obviously also be replacing that need to slug with other options, thus improving the killer experience substantially?
Also, what're you on about by saying they "don't care" about Twins being bugged, too? This question wasn't about that, and we already know they've been working on the Twins update for over a year now. Every killer update so far has had bug fixes in it too, if I remember correctly, and there's no way on this earth the most bugged killer in the game won't have at least some of those bugs addressed in their update.
This is a giant reach, you're taking a question very specifically about just the slugging aspect of the Twins update and you're trying to make it sound like slugging is the only thing being addressed and the only reason for the update.
BHVR didn't say they were going to give Twins a better option than slugging. It's possible they are just going to heavily nerf slugging, so that Twins are forced to not slug as much. Or maybe they'll heavily nerf slugging, and give Twins a tiny buff somewhere else, and try to tell everyone that Twins are "more fun to play" now.
Victor can't pick up survivors, which is why Twins are forced to slug so much. And if BHVR nerfs slugging, but doesn't give Twins a fair alternative (e.g. Victor can pick up survivors), then Twins will be unfun to play, and much worse than they are currently.
-
@Crowman said:
The two week grace period is over.
Yeah. Chucky is going to be garbage, now that many more loops counter his power, and he only gets one rush per long cooldown. I'm glad I didn't invest any time into this killer.
-
@Kubui said:
can anyone explain this? they took all the fun from chucky and tier S killers are still super op...
Blight's flicks got nerfed multiple times, and are now working as intended.
The question you wanted to ask, is about Oni's 180 flicks, because those flicks still don't have a turn limit.
-
@Xendritch said:
So the three gen solution has something to do with kicking gens within a certain proximity of each other perhaps an inability to kick gens or much slower regression. I have no strong feelings but it's interesting.
Maybe the game will track the last 3 generators a killer has kicked, and the regression speed will get worse (as in worse for the killer) every time a killer kicks one of these generators. And if a killer kicks a generator that's not one of the last-3-kicked-generators, then the regression speed gets reset to normal speed.
-
@dance said:
We're making some changes to The Trickster in today's hotfix. Please let us know what you think after the update goes live and you've had a chance to try them out!
The Trickster
- Decreased the base time between throws to 0.3 seconds (was 0.33)
- Increased the Main Event throw rate multiplier to 66% (was 33%)
- Increased the Main Event active duration to 6 seconds (was 5 seconds)
- Reverted the time before Laceration starts decaying to 15 seconds (was 10 seconds)
Trickster still has a major issue with main event, because it triggers on the same number of knives as a health state, which means the survivor gets a speed boost to find a place where Trickster can’t use main event…. Which means that Trickster will end up wasting a lot of main events.
There’s also the problem where his ammo capacity wasn’t adjust to account for the 6 to 8 knives per health state change, and using main event to conserve ammo is unreliable.
I still don’t understand why he has a lullaby, when it takes so long to hit a survivor with 8 knives. This isn’t like Huntress or Deathslinger, that can surprise a survivor, at long range, with a single shot that can take off a health state. If a survivor at long range, they aren’t getting surprised with 8 knife hits before they can react. And having a lullaby just makes this killer absolutely miserable against survivors that like to excessively pre-leave generators and excessively hide, because there’s zero opportunity to use stealth (or terror radius) perks as Trickster.
-
@MaddieMage said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3608166#Comment_3608166
I get that but I’m asking how it’s not still too strong if you guys saw reason for why it was too strong before? Lots of your nerfs get negative feedback but don’t get reverted. Why was this one different?
The real answer was the perk was never an issue, that it got nerfed because survivors compared it to MFT, and reverting the nerf doesn’t help killers becuase the perk is still trash and not worth using.
And killers are worse off because the nerf was reverted, because it gives the illusion that BHVR “listened to feedback, and helped killers”, when they didn’t, because it’s still not a useful perk.
-
@bjorksnas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/400117/trickster-buffs-are-very-surprising
His time to damage is still worse but now he gets in positioning better to more often use it so its still a bit in the air
Time to throw 8 knives.
Before Chapter ~1.8s
PTB 2s
Live V1, 2.66s
Live V2, 2.4s
Its still slower than anything he used to have but theres also the fact its 8 knives instead of 6 which means its more 1 chase reload than it used to be, its a lot of changes but most of them just amount to the same but different
Trickster still has a major issue with main event, because it triggers on the same number of knives as a health state, which means the survivor gets a speed boost to find a place where Trickster can’t use main event…. Which means that Trickster will end up wasting a lot of main events.
There’s also the problem where his ammo capacity wasn’t adjust to account for the 6 to 8 knives per health state change, and using main event to conserve ammo is unreliable.
And Trickster’s best addon got completely removed from the game. I don’t think everyone realizes how powerful it was, to be able to expose a survivor just by hitting them with 4 knives. The replacement iri addon, involving haste, is absolutely trash garbage compared to the exposed iri.
-
Scratchmarks were ok, until we had the short period of time when the scratchmarks got super boosted. And when BHVR reverted that, we are now stuck with garbage scratchmarks.
At least we aren’t stuck with the experimental scratchmarks they tested on the Alien PTB. I can’t even believe BHVR wanted to test something that horrible.
-
The perk would be much better if it actually made scratch marks glow much brighter, so they’re easier to see. And if it made scratchmarks actually reliable.
There are too many times, when a survivor makes a sharp left or right turn, and there are zero scratchmarks to let the killer know which direction the survivor went. This forces the killer to randomly guess a direction, and wastes a small amount of time if they guessed wrong. And because BHVR super boosted the number of line of sight breakers, this forced 50/50 guessing is happening a lot now.
-
@Volcz said:
I don't think its that strong against good survivors. Its a 20 second duration & you get notified when its on you. Get as much distance on him and try to hover around a safe pallet/tile till it wears off. There's plenty of pallets, windows and tiles around that can buy you enough time. The problem is moreso with people's skill in chase. If your whole team sucks in chases, you get a ton of benefit from the perk. Otherwise not so much IMO.
And after a survivor realizes this perk is in the game, and they are the obsession, they can just step into a locker whenever the killer is carrying a survivor, to block the aura reading. And then they stay in the locker until half of the exposed meter is done (that's when the aura reading stops). And I don't care if that survivor "isn't repairing generators" when they're in the locker, because it totally messes up this perk's chase value when the killer gets zero aura reading on the obsession.
-
@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3606781#Comment_3606781
And they are already balancing it around SWF from what I can see
What was the last actual survivor quality of life changes? To me it was the new HUD info
Since then it has been only killer sided changes
Don't even mention anti-face camping mechanic because that doesn't help survivors at all
SURVIVORS...
1) Survivor HUD
1.5) Additional stuff added to the Survivor HUD
2) Easier flashlight timing
3) Removed hook grabs
4) Anti face camp
5) Upcoming 3 gen "solution"
6) The entire Mangled mechanic being updated in the future, to be less frustrating for survivors
7) A possible FoV slider (the roadmap doesn't say "killer FoV slider" so survivors might get one too)
MEANWHILE, KILLERS...
1) Upcoming FoV slider, that might not even count as a killer only improvement, because survivors might get an FoV slider too
2) LITERALLY ZERO OTHER THINGS ANNOUNCED
-
@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3606634#Comment_3606634
So your going to refuse to use actual logic? While we usually like to do that, doesn't help your point does it?
We don't deny it's an advantage but it's outside the game. If you add a punishment in game for playing with friends (who may or may not be taking advantage of coms) then it's going to drive away alot of players.
We're also missing where in game coms came into that topic we were quoting, so can you please point us in that direction?
Someone said BHVR can’t punish players for people playing with their friends. So I replied that BHVR already punishes people for this, because killers get punished when players use voice comms (which is them playing with friends).
At the very least, survivors should sometimes have separate MMR for solo and SWF. If a specific survivor has a higher win rate when in a SWF, then the MMR system needs to recognize that, and place them in a higher MMR when they are in a SWF.
-
@Mooks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3606632#Comment_3606632
There will be a setting I graphical menu and it will affect the first person FoV for killer just like Shadowborn/Monitor and Abuse do already. There is no actual HUD change and as of now nothing for third persons/survivor view has been mentioned whatsoever.
though I agree this could be a good question instead of repeatedly asking when they add the slider when it’s already been confirmed when to expect it when they confirmed they will add it in the first place…
Do we know if survivors are also getting an FoV slider? The latest roadmap just says “FoV slider”, and doesn’t specifically say “Killer FoV slider”.
-
@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3606603#Comment_3606603
Well let's specify: What is built in the game that punishes the killer for people playing with friends?
Most advantages come, again, from outside the game. Being able to coordinate, knowing who's where and when, etc, are from voice chats outside the game. And adding in game voice chat is a whole other problem, but that can be it's own topic.
No. I don’t accept that garbage. Voice communications can be a huge game advantage. And it’s not “it’s own topic” as it’s literally the topic I was referring to.
-
@Mooks said:
I think the Reddit AMAs actually provided some great answers to common community questions, sure the first was a little bit better than the second and during the first and second some things have changed (which they have communicated) - but at least we get the opportunity to ask anything.
and the community should finally understand that no. Asking when buff Myers isn’t the not critical question to be answered in this. We usually get info on upcoming killer changes and they do see feedback outside of these direct dev-community interactions.
I just don’t understand why we got a preview of the Survivor HUD way before it was released, but we still have zero previews for the FoV slider.
I don’t even think we know if it’s a killer only FoV slider, or if survivors are getting an FoV slider too, and part of the delay is that BHVR needs to check all the maps to see how many of the loops will become un-mind-game-able if survivors have increased FoV.
-
What is the point of these question and answer sessions? If anyone asks about future projects, like the FoV slider, 3 gen solution, or the Twins rework… we’ll just get a vague “stay tuned for more info” response.
-
@[Deleted User] said:
Punishing people for playing with their friends will never work. I will never for the life of me understand how people can say they think the game should be a non-competitive, relaxing experience where they can experiment with builds, and then in the same breathe suggest players should be punished for playing with friends. Say it out loud. It doesn't make sense.
You don't know that you went against a SWF most of the time. It's a duo half the time, with an actual 4 man being less than 10% of all matches. Want to punish duos or trios? You're punishing solos too at that point. People who had nothing to do with SWF.
SWF is not a bully simulator. Not if the killer is good and matchmaking did its job. SWF is not the reason someone gets less than 6 hooks in an entire game.
“Punishing people for playing with their friends” is already happening, as the killers get punished when survivors want to use voice comms.
-
@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3606486#Comment_3606486
That doesn't matter, if they're in your TR constantly. They can either decide to leave the gen anytime you come somewhat close or they learn to ignore it for the most part. Eventually, they have to make progress or you win anyway. Pre running only works, if they can reliably tell when you come closer. Distressing makes this next to impossible for uncoordinated survivors.
It does matter, because a Distressing Wesker isn’t a literal 50 meters of “terror radius is either completely off or completely on”.
Instead, if the survivor ignores the outer-most 1/3 of the terror radius, then their next layer of terror radius warning starts around 33 meters away… and since most of these people pre-leave generators when a 32 meter terror radius appears, this isn’t much of a difference.
-
@Xernoton said:
Your TR is huge as Wesker, so you can try and give the survivors the feeling that they have no way of getting out of there (easily achievable by committing to one half of the map or using Distressing). This means they will take it similar to a Huntress' lullaby that pretty much only tells them you're on the map. If you see them in the distance, then don't be affraid to use your power to catch up to them. It might cost you a bit of time before you can get the hit, but you more than make up for it by skipping any distance they have on you. Undectable perks can also work quite well.
…Unless they know that the terror radius is split into 1/3 increments, and that if Wesker uses Distressing, that they can ignore the outer-most 1/3 of the terror radius.
-
@Xendritch said:
The weird thing about UW is it is pretty busted (turns out giving out the ability to other killers to be Doctor in addition to their base power isn't the best idea) but I feel like I rarely come across it that much and I struggle to figure out why.
It's free tracking that gets around Distortion that you can activate at any time while also comboing nicely with other perks like Sloppy, Thrill, and Dead Man's Switch. By all accounts the meta should be centered around it right now and it's not really instead killers that were already dumb (Nurse, Blight, Wesker) are now ever dumber but most other killers seem to be skipping over it? Like could you imagine if Cenobite was more popular and was always running UW to interrupt box solving? That ######### would be foul and we'd never hear the end about it on here.
Aura reading in general is much better than a screaming perk that warns survivors that they’ve been revealed, and the screaming reveal stays in one place instead of following the survivor like aura reading does.
Yes, Ultimate Weapon can counter Distortion, but what usually ends up happening with aura reading perks, is the killer will just tunnel out whichever people aren’t running Distortion.
-
@Disco said:
I encounter this issue a lot when I play Wesker because of his huge terror radius and it's really frustrating. People rate Wesker as a top tier killer but I honestly do better with lower tier killers like Legion, Wraith and Pig because they are much easier to play and no one pre runs them as hard as Wesker. When I watch my fav streamer play Wesker they never seem to have this issue though and idk why or how.
There really isn’t much that Wesker can do against survivors that pre-leave generators when the visual terror radius lights up. The survivors will be so far away from a generator when you get there, that it’s not worth trying to find them, and the game might just end up being 30+ minutes because of it.
This is the main reason why I don’t like playing this character. I’d rather play Blight, because he can zoom across the map fast enough that he can sometimes actually chase pre-leaving survivors without throwing the game.
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3606164#Comment_3606164
that is not what @Iron_Cutlass is talking about. he is talking about the killer purposely stalling games even though they're going lose eventually, i.e purposing attempting to take game hostage.
It's basically a demand for survivors to never get punished with difficult generators.
survivor are not suppose get to punished. they have static objective that takes static amount of time to complete. the difficult in doing objective is suppose to be surviving killer themselves, not the generator placements. the problem is that killer are not particularly difficult to survive and default generator time is too fast. As a result, killer have relied on imbalancing the survivor's generator objective due to their inadequate chase capacity and too fast objective.
That person literally said "There is no reason for 3 whole Generators to spawn within 16-meters of one another, sometimes even closer depending on the structure". As in, the issue is how close together the generators are. Moving generators farther apart, means that survivors that are purposely targeting the easy generators, don't get punished as much.
The 3 gen solution shouldn't punish killers, in games where the survivors are literally targeting the easy generators, and purposely leaving the most difficult generators until the end of the game.
We also don't know how many people were stalling the game, as the survivors could have been excessively pre-leaving generators, excessively hiding, or running super far away to heal whenever they got hit. At which point, they were stalling the game too. We also don't know if the killer was purposely stalling for the purpose of griefing the survivors, or if they were defending a 3 gen because it's was the optimal strategy at the time, at which point people are just shaming killers for trying to win the game, and telling killers that 100% of the burden is on them to keep the game moving.
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3605961#Comment_3605961
the game structured like that where some gens are more valuable than others. so no it does not need changing. generator are survivors objective so they're suppose to be far away or survivor-sided places. 30+ minute games is not suppose how the game is meant to be played. It is something that Mandy stated awhile back.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3605962#Comment_3605962
a problem is that pre-running for survivor is too strong where survivor team can refuse to die but can still threaten to do gens. The result is that killer can never commit to chases without losing a gen leading to stalemate. with 400% slower regression on survivor, the killer does eventually lose but it can take so long that its impractical game in terms of time. on arbitrary level, the killer needs to be able to slow the game down vs gen-rushing but not so much to the point that it makes game take forever. I am not sure how to nerf pre-running but dev have invented this perk called "Battery included" that gives 5% haste. Haste is good counter to pre-running but i am not convinced that this perk is good enough to counter pre-running in 3 gens especially since it only works finished gens rather than all gens. The % is a bit low so perhaps higher number like 7% or 10% might be needed.
So it's not ok if 3 gens are too close, but it's totally ok if some generators are so far away that they aren't worth defending? How is that fair? If some generators are safer than others, then there should be consequences for prioritizing them, which there currently is.
Survivors want to be able to prioritize the easy generators, and not be punished for it. That's what the whole 3 gen debate is all about. It's basically a demand for survivors to never get punished with difficult generators.
Be honest, do people really think that if survivors purposely prioritized all the easy generators, and got themselves into a 3 gen, that they would take responsibility for it, and think that's an ok situation?
-
There's also no reason for generators to spawn so far away, or in such survivor-sided places, that they aren't worth defending at all. That needs to be addressed too.
-
@UnusedAccount said:
I know Survivors are use to demanding Killers play a certain way but you cannot do the same for your teammates.
Stop forcing people to play the way you want, it predatory. And it makes you no better than a Twitter user.
If it's fine to demand for killers to play a certain way, then it should be fine to demand for survivors to play a certain way.
-
@Venusa said:
This match lasted 40 minutes. Sorry but just hook me and get it over with, I got things to do in real life and I don't want a DC penalty. I just wanted a casual DBD match in my free time, not some MOBA length E-Sports match.
Mind you, there are still 2 gens left and we're trying so hard not to 3-gen with these randoms (I was lucky to even have mates this competent but we all died anyways) but there's nothing you can do if the Killer is forcing a 3-gen and you're not in a coordinated SWF. Killer doesn't commit to chases and if they down you they refuse to hook you just to run back to their 3-gen. I don't think maps should spawn with pre-destined 3-gen setups like this so Killers can't just capitalize on this "strategy" of going back and forth playing gen defence simulator for minutes until people physically give up. Either eliminate this situation or give a Forfeit option because I don't want to be stuck in a match for this long. I don't care about your win streak, just hook me and send me back to lobby.
I'm already expecting a lot of "This is your fault!" comments from people who can't stop showing their bias on this Forum with absurd takes who clearly haven't played Survivor once for the last 12 months so keep them coming.
I hope the 3 gen solution also punishes survivors that refuse to commit to repairing generators, and are excessively pre-leaving generators or excessively hiding. Because that's often a major part of the 3 gen problem.
-
@Xendritch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3605145#Comment_3605145
So now it feels like we're complaining about an archetype of survivor player rather than a perk so then the problem is bad survivors and not distortion which I would agree so cool?
No. Do you remember Eruption? 100% of killers using this perk weren’t excessively defending a 3 gen. And survivors could still win the game even if a killer was using Eruption, and killers didn’t need Eruption to hold a 3 gen. But Eruption was considered to be encouraging and enabling excessive 3 gen defense way more than it should, so it got nerfed.
Distortion is the exact same scenario. Not everyone that uses Distortion is excessively hiding, but survivors using this perk to excessively hide is a problem, so the perk should be nerfed.
-
@Xxjwaynexx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3605137#Comment_3605137
Even with it being 4v1 I think their main complaint with tunneling at 5 gens is that unless the killer is as equally bad as the first survivor tunneled it's virtually impossible to complete all the gens.
The point is that at five gens the need to sweat isn't necessary really and if you can't loop like ayrun it's super unfun, but it is what efficiently wins games as long as it's based off of kills and not individual hooks. In a game that's pvp there's always gonna be an aspect thats not fun one side or the other, I mean the point of PVP is to beat the opponent everytime right. So I think it comes with the territory.
As far as survivor rules they don't have a lot to interact with outside of holding M1 on a gen and the fact that they aren't the power role. They don't have rules because the killer can control what the only objective they have (gens) from the beginning. Its not like breaking every three gen is inevitable, most smart killers load in and the first thing they do is find the 3gen setup some hard defend it others proxy defend it.
Poor decisions is a little bit of a logical fallacy. For instances just a few examples:
If they unhook Nancy and she uses her bt to bodyblock for the unhooker that's not tunneling.
If I hook Dwight beside a highly progressed gen he gets unhooked and immediately hops on that gen, not tunneling.
If I let your teammates get the safe unhook and they dip out on you instead of staying for chase and I circle the map and find you again not tunneling.
If someone is expecting the killer to just drop any of these scenarios then idk what to say it's a lost cause. It'd be like 99'ing the last Gen then since the killer is super close the whole team completely negates it to work on another gen with 0 progress and never comes back to that same gen because it's tunneling until the killer kicks it. Asinine, I know.
No. The point is that we have a major double standard, where killers are expected to make poor game decisions, that actively lower their chances of winning…… but expect absolute zero from survivors in return.
And yes, there is a reason to tunnel at 5 generators, and that’s the fact that it’s effective. Killers aren’t doing it to spite survivors, they’re doing it to help win a PvP game. And if killers are expected to make poor game decisions, then survivors should also be expected to make poor game decisions.
-
@Xendritch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3605110#Comment_3605110
This feels like your source is you made it tf up. You don't all of a sudden become physically invisible if you use distortion the killer can still find you if they walk over to you lol.
Like Distortion doesn't make people prerun super quickly and it also isn't doing anything in those situations if the killer isn't using nowhere to hide. It feels like a perk that's perfectly fine is being blamed for certain people's behavior when the crouched in a corner blendette has been a thing basically since game launch way before Distortion was a thing and I will again reiterate nobody cared when they were using iron will back then because basically everyone used iron will back then.
The difference here is not everyone uses Distortion because it's a weaker perk than old iron will and potentially does nothing all game so not everyone wants to run it but that's the choice. People not running Distortion are gambling that whatever they do bring is more useful and Distortion users are gambling the killers have aura reading or else they're wasting a perk slot. But this idea that all Distortion users are hiding in corners all game is pure fantasy.
I never said that 100% of Distortion users are hiding in corners the entire game.
And how is the killer supposed to just “walk over to” a survivor that is excessively hiding, when they aren’t anywhere near any uncompleted generators when the killer is patrolling them? It’s like asking killers to search literally every object in the map. Excessively hiding survivors aren’t the type of people that just stay on generators. And they’re a big part of the 3 gen problem. If survivors need to split up to repair the final generator, but some of the survivors refuse to repair because they’re too busy hiding, then the game can last an extremely long time, because these survivors would rather have a 30+ minute game, than risk being found at a generator.
-
BHVR can nerf the perks that encourage excessive hiding, and give killers better ways to find survivors that are excessively hiding. BHVR can also nerf lockers so it’s not blocking auras and screaming. There are things BHVR could be doing.
Maybe the future reworks or mangled and hemorrhage can turn those status effects from anti healing to anti stealth. I’d be cool with that.
-
@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3605107#Comment_3605107
Agreed. Wont catch me debating that. I'm stating your weaponizing of "Tunneling, camping, 3 genning, and slugging' is the sole reason the topic of this thread is happening. Killers are perpetuating what OP is talking about in this thread.
There is a time for tunneling, camping, etc. There is. Its when this is solely what the killer does from the start that makes it disagreeable. Tunneling at 5 gens is not the same as tunneling when its clear the Survivors are outpacing you. Im sure we agree on these points, yes?
Anyway, I hope you get where Im coming from. If not, I think I'll bow out. Its either hopeless or you choose not to state your understanding.
No. We can’t agree on that. There isn’t an arbitrary number of generators that need to be completed, before the killer can tunnel, nor should there be. Especially because zero of these arbitrary rules are placed on the survivor side.
For real, what rules do survivors follow, for the sake of consideration of the killer’s fun, that can actively lower their chances of escaping? Killers are being demanded to make poor game decisions, that can lower their chances of winning the game, for the sake of survivor fun, yet at the same time, there’s zero of these rules for survivors.
-
@Xendritch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3604935#Comment_3604935
Distortion literally does not do that though? All Distortion does in most cases is buy you time before the killer figures out what gen you're on, it also occurs to me nobody was saying this about Iron Will before it got nerfed and everybody was fine running it so I don't think people actually have a problem with stealth as much as they're pretending to at the moment. This really does just feel like grasping at straws because the DBD community doesn't know what it'd do with itself if it didn't have anything to complain about.
No. That's not what happens what survivors excessively hide.
What often happens is two survivors are sacrificed, and the killer still hasn't ever seen the distortion survivor the entire game. Sometimes, three survivors are sacrificed, the Distortion survivor finds hatch, and the killer literally never saw the Distortion survivor the entire game.
Unless someone is playing a specific killer, or is using very specific perks, they are extremely unlikely to find these survivors at generators, as those survivors are likely to pre leave the generator at the first sign of a visual terror radius, and stay away until the visual terror radius goes away. And they use Distortion to figure out how careful to be. For example, if Distortion shows them that Nowhere To Hide is in the game, they'll make sure to either run to a locker, or to run out of that perk's radius, when they pre-leave generators. And if Distortion shows BBQ, they'll be sure to run into a locker whenever the killer is carrying someone.
The part people don't seem to understand, is these survivors are just burning through their tokens, and instead when a token gets burnt, they make sure it doesn't get burnt again.
-
@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3604938#Comment_3604938
Sure! I'm under the assumption these play styles will never change on either side. So I just defend things that sound ludicrous to me, such as telling survivors not to hide or run. I know this is paraphrasing the whole conversation, but it seems to be what happens on these forums.
So yes, Ill happily jump on that train lol.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3604994#Comment_3604994
Apologies, I wasn't meaning to offend with the IRL time stuff Hope all is well! :)
But onwards! No point missed. I understood your initial post and simply disagree with it. Your complaints were of the playstyle and now its about the new players.
It is not on me or you to worry about the new players experience. You saw just now all the things they will run into:
"Camping, tunneling, slugging, or 3 gens." They toss it around like its something to use as a weapon. But regardless, this is will be their biggest incentive to do exactly what you are complaining about: Stealth.
So @Coffeecrashing and others can slap those words around like a stick all he wants. It's driving this play style more for the new players than anything.
There is a difference between hiding, and excessively hiding. Just like there is a difference between facecamping and proxy camping. And just like there is a difference between defending generators, and aggressively defending a 3 gen the entire game.
-
@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3604610#Comment_3604610
Thats great!
This is still just the next thing to complain about because there isn't much to complain about right now. This is STILL just complaining that survivors are playing the game. This is STILL ridiculous.
It doesn't matter what is more beneficial... wow. Then tell the tunneling meta to knock it off. They won't, because its the most beneficial method. This stealth thing isn't a meta, OP just called it that. And even if it did become 'the way', its literally the game. Its literally the game.
Stop hiding survivors. Just line up or they'll go to the forums!
Whenever someone complains about camping, tunneling, slugging, or 3 gens... can you tell those people "This is STILL just complaining that killers are playing the game. Its literally the game"?
-
@Xendritch said:
I feel like this doesn't have anything to do with distortion and is just soloQ life.
Again for every distortion thread I see I have to ask where we're these complaints a year ago? Distortion isn't a problem, selfish soloQ players are but technically they're not breaking the rules. If you wanna make a build and play in a way where you only look out for yourself not only are you allowed but some perks like Self-preservation actively encourage playing in this way.
Honestly the only reason this isn't even more common in soloQ is I think most people kinda realize you need the other survivors to escape otherwise soloQ would just be a massive free for all.
Killers weren't breaking the rules when they facecamped, but that still got nerfed anyway. It doesn't matter whether or not something is overpowered or un-counterable. What matters is how unfun Distortion can be for both sides of the game.
How can BHVR say they "want solo q to feel like more of a team", and then have perks like Distortion that encourage survivors to be the exact opposite of a team player? "Bridging the gap between solo q and SWF" really should mean "BHVR makes changes to the game to encourage solo q survivors to actually work together as a team".