Ebonbane2000
Ebonbane2000
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771667#Comment_3771667
what made it unfun for survivors and what’s your plan to address that mechanic in other areas of the game? Barring slugging in hook deadzones I mean.
^This! Since when have u guys cared about slugging? Any why did the concern only manifest in making hooks respawn?
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@squbax said:
As someone who has been playing this game since 2016, this is literally not a true statement, idk if you are familiar with the term "blendette", this was literally something killers and survivors complained back then. While I do have my opinions regarding inmerse teammates and opponents making the match boring, they are not the point of the discussion.
The point is this discussions DID exist back then but every dbd player loves to see the old game with nostalgia tinted glasses so they forget this things did exist.
How I miss blendette, lol. The playstlyle, not the discussions….those were borderline prejudice.
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@HerInfernalMajesty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3746329#Comment_3746329
I have 3700 hours in this game but im matched with survivors less than 400 hours. Killer on the other hand is someone with 9000 hours and those 400 hour survivors wont last more than 20 seconds. This should not happen.
There is a chance that the matchmaker does this to keep things balanced. For every team that has Survivors who can barely last 10-20 sec in chase, the team probably has one really good looper who can run the Killer for multiple minutes. So in the matchmakers eyes the skills offset each other thus making the game “equal”.
I’m not saying you should feel good about this or accept it or anything like that. Just that I think it is an intended feature of the mmr to keep good Survivors separated from each other. If the matchmaker created teams of players of equal skill level the KR would probably plummet since it’s no longer people forming their own 4 man swf but now the matchmaker forming as many powerful teams as possible.
It would be an interesting experiment to see the matchmaker for a modifier pit the best of the best against each other and with each other.
I remember Mandy mentioning something similar a long while ago. That ideally, matchmaking will give you a good survivor, a not so good survivor, and two in-betweens (or something similar). I'm not sure if that's still the case, though.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3740377#Comment_3740377
How will I avoid my teammates in chase if I can't see them?
I agree. Instead these perks should give off killer instinct on the user if they get too close to their teammate while in chase. And don't put the change in the patch notes lol.
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@Chaosrider said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3734887#Comment_3734887
Or literally noone ever plays a single game.
Actually this would improve soloQ quite a bit, lol.
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@Rudjohns said:
Nerf Distortion
But also nerf aura reading
Every single perk and add-on should only reveal auras of healthy survivors
This!
A nerf of Distortion would require an across the board nerf of aura reading.
Only seeing healthy survivors would be a good change. Also, remove it from perks that make you exposed (or vice versa).
If we're nerfing the ability for survivors to stay hidden, hiding has to be less crucial.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
Lightborn exists. It does the same thing for killers that distortion does for survivors: Shut down a gameplay style.
Literal balance.
That's what's odd. Imagine the outcry if there was a change to put Lightborn on a token system at all much less one that requires chasing the obsession to recharge (as suggested) .
The complaints about Distortion doing something useful are a testament to how reliant many players become on seeing exactly where the person is hiding in a game of 'hide n seek'. Almost like many have forgotten how to follow scratch marks; look for crows; follow blood; and listen for grunts, groans, etc.
Thinking outside the box a little and use other survivor location perks (discordance; UW; spies) instead of asking for even easier matches.
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@Reinami said:
A better solution to survivors is to make it impossible to remove a survivor from the trial early. My suggestion to address camping, and tunneling is usually as follows:
- Remove the 4% mechanic so survivors can't nope out early
- Remove the AFC mechanic, you won't need it.
- Survivors now share the 1st hook state.
- Basekit kindred so you know what your teammates are doing and if the killer is camping
Sharing only the first hook state means, if you hook someone, then tunnel them, then hook them, then tunnel them, then hook them, you didn't kill them, you just burned through 3 of the survivor's shared health states. Which mean the absolute earliest it becomes possible to eliminate a survivor from the game, is on the 6th hook.
Also, because you only share the FIRST hook state, and not all of them, you won't feel cheated because the rest of your team wasted all the hook states and now you are dead on your first chase. This way at worst, you'll still get a "second" chance that is all your own.
This also means weaker players are able to play in teams with their friends on not be afraid of just dying immediately.
Camping basically becomes nonexistant, because sitting through 6 hook states to remove someone from the game is a full 6 minutes. More than enough time for the other 3 survivors to finish 5 gens, 99 both gates, and coordinate a save to get all 4 out.
Tunneling becomes pointless, because tunneling someone for 6 hook states means just that much longer that the other survivors go unbothered working on gens, so you'll have to spread pressure.
I'd couple this with some basekit changes and perk changes for killer to make it so you can play the game without taking 4 slowdown perks as well, but in general this is one of the simpler ways to deal with the issue imo.
I think this would make the game ALOT healthier overall.
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@Akeeno said:
it was in chaos shuffle, on rpd. found survivor and injured them, 1st gen popped
downed survivor and hooked, 2 gen
look for survivors they unhook in my face, so i tunnel. get the hook 3rd gen pops
look for survivors, they unhook again, i go for second survivor , 1st survivor body blocks with endurance, im forced to tunnel again, catch and sacrified them, 4th gen pops
patrol last gens and last one is 99, boom 5 gens, catch survivor and but the nearest hook is by exit gate. i patrol exit gate and hook
entire match 6 minutes
survivors get the unhook and make it to other exit gate by bodyblocking me, and escape
then the usual trash talk.
so my point is that at the high level of dbd gens fly like theres no tommorow, and pop and pain res are getting nerfed.
i have 4000 hours in dbd, killer main, was using slinger, minimal missed shots, bad rng perks, i dont think this is balanced, for matches to end quickly without gen perks
Do you think it would have played out different if instead of chasing first hook for (probably) 90+ seconds, you cut chase and did a gen sweep after 30 seconds?
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@VampireHimbo said:
It's extremely wild to me seeing the exact same killers who go "Your fun is not my responsibility" have a complete meltdown when survivors refuse to play with those killers by killing themselves on hook or dcing.
Exactly! This was the slogan used to promote the worst possible sanctioned aspects and strategies of this game. Now the repercussions of NOT thinking about your fellow gamer has brought us here.
What's sad is the very people that use the play styles that increase 4% CAN'T bring themselves to not do it. They are hoping someone will step in and MAKE people allow them to tunnel, camp, and exploit broken/outdated mechanics.
When I play killer, I rarely have anyone 4%. But I also, don't hook the same survivor twice; I don't return to the hook; and I try to hook everyone twice before death hook.
Sometimes drawing out the games to do all of this will make people give up and ask to be killed, lol. But everyone walks away with points. And most importantly, no one walks away feeling like they didn't get a chance to play.
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@camping_site said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3719953#Comment_3719953
Do you think they loaded into the game only when I started my first chase? They had plenty time to see their surrounding gens. Defending this just means you could be part of the problem.
I only hope this serves you as a reminder that there is a room for improvement.
A bigger problem is min/maxxers with an attitude that seep the fun out of the game for everyone else. I'd take the 'non-optimal but productive' teammate over the 'overly intense toxic one' any day of the week (although the toxic ones do make for interesting endgame chat, lol). In your eyes, apparently you don't need to improve. But the vast majority of DBD players have room for improvement.
These guys I can work with (and probably even get a couple of them out).
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@Slackrimosa said:
In the first clip Meg is healing Min and Yui is on a gen; once the healing is done they go to a gen and start working on it.
In the second clip Min is dead (and you only have 1 hook, I guess it wasn't optimal to take a down for a teammate) and Meg is healing Yui. After the heal Meg starts a hat box and Yui gets on a gen. Meg's hat isn't active so instead of doing more boxes she gets on the gen with Yui.
Healing against a stealth killer isn't a bad idea, why are you mad?
I agree. In the first video, there was about twenty seconds wasted by Feng and Meg after the heal (which I assume was them looking for a gen) and the Yui wasted 23 seconds (probably being overly cautious due to TR). So there was indeed time wasted but nothing too egregious.
The second video the Meg wasted about 20 seconds healing the Yui and then tried to remove her RBT, but then got on the gen. Again not optimal, but also not egregious.
The steps they took made them ready to come unhook you; be able to take chase; and not give an easier down to the killer. It wasn't optimal, but I probably wouldn't be upset with their performance. Nice runs btw.
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@Huge_Bush said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3719870#Comment_3719870
It is logical since the killer performed well and has a right to try for a 4k. The description is in their title.
Let me ask you this, if the gates are powered, someone is on hook and the rest of the team is at full health, are Survivors wrong for going in to rescue the hooked person? Why can’t they just leave? A 3-escape is still a win for them. There’s no need to waste more time, they can just go next. Or is it okay for the Survivors to get a 4 escape while Killers need to be nice and considerate so Survivors have a good time?
a 3 person escape is NOT a win for the 4th survivor. It's just "not a win" for the killer. Stop looking at it from an entitled player perspective. Playing well does not entitle you to the 4th kill. You are bypassing a core mechanic by not allowing the 4th survivor to race you for the hatch.
It's the same argument killers made when 4 survivors would hatch escape with key after doing all of the gens. Survivors were bypassing the door mechanic.
Slugging for the 4K is a dev oversight and it should fix. Once there is only one survivor STANDING, hatch should open. That's an easy fix.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3715618#Comment_3715618
When i play nurse? No. When i play non top tier killers? Every game is a massive uphill battle to get lucky to even draw.
You probably are wasting your time going down this path. I have 3.5k hours in this game.
If you can only "not struggle" with Nurse (pretty broken killer in the right hands) or Blight, you may be punching above your weight.
Gen regression is making your issue even worse. Because you're winning matches you should probably lose. The games you play shouldn't make you feel you have to use 3-4 specific perks. Dropping in MMR would be good for you.
They also, shouldn't be cakewalks. Which is probably the way it was prior to you getting back to back 3 and 4 man SWFs.
One side furthers their goal by 33% (4 hooks) and it undoes 20% of the other sides progress automatically-PR; gives away their position; while also locking out the other side from their goal for 44% of the base required time-GE; in addition to being locked out 22% of the base required time just for doing their goal-DL.
Surely, you can understand that stacking has gotten a tad excessive and unfun. Redoing the work already done without any interaction from the killer directly (I left POP out on purpose).
It's like the constant resets when green medkits and CoE were meta. It wasn't fun watching someone heal the damage you did in the time you stopped to swing at their prot hit soaking teammate. Adding a health state in under 8 seconds had to be removed (although, I think the nerf was a tad excessive) and understandably so.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3715606#Comment_3715606
I rarely get those players, the majority of my games are high skill survivors who are trying to win at all costs. Almost every game has at least 2-3 players queued up, with a high number of games having a full SWF based on their name coordination and such. If i can, i also will ask them at the end of the game, and they often say they are SWFs
Are you struggling to win?
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3715472#Comment_3715472
You forget though, that the math aint mathing.
Chases are balanced around lasting 45 seconds. So lets say you have an "average" 45 second chase.
- 45 seconds
- 2.7 wipe animation
- 3 second pickup animation
- 10 seconds to walk to a hook
- 1.5 second hook animation
- ~11 seconds to walk from any corner of the map to the middle of the map, or from the middle to any corner
That means that one hook took you, 45 + 2.7 + 3 + 10 + 1.5 + 11 = 73.2 seconds before you can enter another chase.
Lets ignore the fact that you probably just lost 3 gens, because the other 3 survivors were doing something, and lets just look at it being your second chase. Maybe your first chase went really well.
Well, how long does it take a survivor to get off a gen, unhook the hooked survivor, heal them to full and be back in the game? Lets see…
- ~12.5 seconds to walk to the hook (about half a map)
- 1 second unhook animation
- 1 second of "fiddleing" because the game for some reason doesn't let you heal right away.
- 16 seconds to heal
That's: 12.5 + 1 + 1 + 16 = 30.5 seconds. Now we multiply it by 2, because there were 2 survivors and thats 72 seconds.
So it took the killer 73.2 seconds to get the hook, and the survivors only 61 seconds (half that but there are 2 of them) in order to recover from that hook. MEANWHILE, while that was happening, you have 1 survivor sitting on the gen for a solid 60 seconds while one is being chased and these 2 are recovering.
By the time you get that next down, the original 2 survivors who were hooked, are already healed, and repairing a gen for about 15 seconds for a total of 30 seconds (for both of them) and that third survivor was on the gen for 60 seconds. So you again LOSE time hooking a survivor even WHEN you factor in all of that based on how chases are balanced.
Now when you factor in that first chase, survivors have to do 450 seconds of gen progress.
Even if the survivors are relatively inefficient, lets say each gen actually takes them 120 seconds, because they are inefficient, thats 600 seconds of progress. That first chase costs you 216 seconds of progress, leaving you with 384 seconds of progress left. Lets say the killer doesn't camp, and doesn't tunnel and every chase goes exactly the same. What happens? Each hook costs the killer 90 seconds of gen progress. Divide 384 by 90 what do you get? 4.2 hooks.
Even if they are REALLY inefficient, taking 50% longer per gen, thats 675 seconds of progress. So (675 - 216)/90 = 5.1 + 1 hooks.
Lets say they take TWICE as long to do a gen so 180 seconds per gen? (900 - 216)/90 = 7.6 + 1 hooks. NOW its starting to be more fair, because you still have end game, so during the game you got 8 hooks, and now endgame starts, seems reasonable to be able to get 1-2 of them for a draw. But thats STILL at taking TWICE AS LONG to complete each gen than the base. That is HELLA inefficient.
No killer, nor perk combination in the world can make the survivors spend twice as long on gens, other than a nurse who can end chases in probably half the time. What makes survivors take twice as long on gens is them being allergic to doing them for some reason in solo queue.
Are you struggling to 4K against soloQ groups? Yes or no? Are you struggling to win against SWF friends clowning around? Yes or no?
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3714886#Comment_3714886
Ok. How do I stop losing time with literally everything I do? There must be something all these killers have overlooked the past 8 years. Even if we were to assume, that you wouldn't need to walk to the next gen, then that's still 17 seconds wasted just by hooking someone.
That means, the survivors get 17 charges for free, right? Actually no. Because it's 17 charges x 3 = 51 charges. From a total of 450 charges. That means, just for the hooking someone, the killer already loses ~11.1% of the gens. Now what happens, when they actually have to traverse the map, find survivors and chase them before hooking? That only makes it worse.
Please tell me, how do I speed up hooking? How do I stop the other 3 survivors from progressing while I am busy just going through the steps to get 8.3% of my objective done? After I had already to put in the bulk of the work by finding and chasing that survivor.
Because you have one survivor working in your scenario not 3. One on the hook; one making the exact trek you made for the save (except slower to avoid you); one avoid you at their gen or being chased by you; and one on an actual gen. Even a team on comms would have two on gens at most.
You've been around the block enough that you (and many other killer mains) should know this.
Is this going to make it harder to go against SWF sweats? Yes. But can you honestly tell me that you're having trouble taking down soloQ groups, and SWF clowning groups.
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It could be cool. A killer that gives you different debuffs based on spell you get hit with
- fire injures you and gradually takes down ur injured bar.
-ice is like a hook but frozen and you have to be thawed to be saved.
- electricity injures you and makes your skill checks like MS for x amount of time.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3714913#Comment_3714913
I hate this argument because it doesn't account for the FOUR survivors.
It takes 1 good survivor who knows their loops to waste a ton of time for the other 3 to hammer out up to 3 different gens. This is disregarding perks as well: Second chances, gen progression, and exhaustion perks. Against top tier killers, you may have an argument, but the general M1 killers/killers that need setup/weaker M2 killers? It's normal at a decent MMR to lose 2 gens in the first chase even if it goes well.
"Why not swap survivors if the first one is taking too long?" Because you need to know where the others are, get to them, and manage to win a chase against them in less time it'd take to down your first target. And again, you risk the next target being good at loops as well while your first target takes over their gen.
And let's not forget, Pop and Pain Res only activate on hooks. Pain Res being once per person. That regression is wasted on any gen already completed or any new gen barely touched.
This is the issue here. If a killer KNOWINGLY lets a survivor waste a ton of their time, they threw the game. Good game sense is knowing when to cut bait and look for easy hits/downs.
These perks have been so much of a crutch that many don't understand, you don't have to chase until down. Healing has been nerfed. Resetting is ALOT harder now. Also, once 2 gens are left, it's much easier to hit, run, and injure multiple survivors, while looking for your mark. Sure, the first two gens are always going to fly, but what about those last two? How fast do they go?
Gen progression perks already got nerfd; toolboxes got nerfed; as did gen progression in general. Maps are much smaller, and half the killer roster teleports or speeds around.
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Anybody else started humming "I'm still standing" after reading the the title, or is that just me?
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@drsoontm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712805#Comment_3712805
The disease is a lack of respect of the other players. This could teach them that.
I agree 100%, but you need to look further up the chain for that 'lack of respect'. This game went down the hole of "Ur fun is not my responsibility". And now we're stuck in a loop.
It's like the DM in AD&D decided to do the crappiest things possible to the PCs just because they can, then get angry when the PCs no longer play in character and play like asshats.
Either the power role needs to understand "with great power comes great responsibility"; or the power role needs to no longer be the power roll.
Something like…5 join up and killer is chosen at random.
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@Lost_Boy said:
I often run 3 aura perks and it's safe to say after hundreds of games that distortion will block & refresh charges at a faster rate than I can burn through. Its very common to go the whole match and not see the person running distortion.
I'm not sure if there's another perk in the game that can effectively shut down 3 perks for a single slot for the entire match.
Lightborn counters Flash Bang, all flashlight perks and flashlights themselves.
MindBreaker counters all aura perks AND exhaustion perks.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3710262#Comment_3710262
I compared the time efficiency. For a brief time the killer does not progress their objective at all. That's the 2:0 ratio. 2 survivors do gens at normal speed, while the killer chases 2 survivors without actually progressing because the one bodyblocking is protected by DS. The 3:1 ratio is 3 survivors on gens with 1 survivor in chase.
Basically, bodyblocking with DS buys 2 survivors free time to sit on gens. Frankly, there is no benefit in having 2 people off gens, if it means that your own time as a killer is wasted. Because you don't get anything out of this. Yes, the survivors progress slower. But you don't progress at all, which also means that most meta perks will not help you and when they do, then it could very well be too late.
For a Nurse, that's not a big deal. You can't bodyblock her anyway. A Blight or Hillbilly will just tunnel that survivor at that point. But against weaker killers this is very strong. They can't afford to eat the DS and they will take forever to catch up to that other survivor again. Meaning, their opportunity to get that down is gone. Now the second half of the chase starts all over again.
In any case, the killer is punished because they committed the most heinous of crimes. Spreading hooks. The solution is to tunnel right off the bat (or start tunneling that survivor, if you play a killer that can afford to lose time). This however, defeats DS's purpose as an anti tunnel perk.
There are multiple ways to fix this without nerfing DS when used correctly. My suggestion is a buff to 7 seconds (although it's not necessary), rework base kit BT so that it let's that survivor lose collision with the killer and become immune to attacks of any sort and then have DS deactivate upon taking a protection hit.
I'm all for collision removal while basekit BT is active, but many protection hits come from vicinity, not body blocking. How would these be weeded out?
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3710262#Comment_3710262
The math is wrong. “How many survivors are doing generators” is the wrong question.
The correct question is “how fast is the killer progressing their objectives, compared to how fast the survivors are progressing their objectives”.
Okay. a slugged DS weaponizer, a survivor in chase, and 2 on gens. Compared to 3 survivors on gens while you're trying to get the 2nd hit on the 4th survivor.
Which scenario benefits the killer the most?
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3709040#Comment_3709040
Then why did we buff DS to begin with? If 2 seconds don't make a difference, then let's revert it to 3 seconds. Because back then I didn't have to deal with this crap. Funny how that works in both directions, huh?
A survivor that is constantly in my face is not doing gens, that is true. However, they make sure I cannot progress my objective while 2 of their team mates are still on gens. Now, what's better for survivors 3:1 or 2:0? You don't need a Ph.D in mathematics to understand that the second option is infinitely better, literally. The killer completely stops to progress their objective for as long as that survivor is still bodyblocking with DS and then loses extra time catching up to the other one again.
All while their team mates do gens. Just like old DH, this doesn't happen randomly. It happens when that survivor is about to go down but because they didn't need to use an exhaustion perk for that, it took even longer to get them in that position. When you finally down that survivor, the other 2 could have very well finished their 2 gens, so now you get a Pop / Pain Res, that does pretty much nothing as well.
That comparison was a little off. It's not 3:1 or 2:0; it's 3:0 (3 survivors on gens while ur chasing one) or 2:0 ( 2 survivors on gens while you chase 2).
I don't understand how you don't see the benefit of keeping 2 survivors busy instead of 1. Having two survivors in your sights (one of which will be downed pretty fast) is indeed better than chasing and downing a healthy survivor; then finding another healthy survivor to chase and down.
While it may be annoying to have to slug the unhooked while you chase down the unhooker, it's worth it to give the many who don't weaponize DS an extra chase when being tunneled.
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@Manslaughter said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3708902#Comment_3708902
Pop is the only perk that you said that is good. Half the time my scourge hook placements are so stupidly placed that I don't get to use it at all. At least with pop I get value, I would rather floods of rage instead of pain res.
In time you'll learn the most efficient slowdowns to use (at the time). Pain Res essentially adds a 6th gen that needs doing (when utilized right). That's nothing to sneeze at.
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@CountOfTheFog said:
So I've been getting a ton of bully squads at night and I had an idea and wondered if you have ever done this and what are the potential pitfalls of trying this?
These squads are extremely Altruistic and each Survivor would literally die for each other.
I plan to get a 4K using Blood Warden by doing the following:
Waiting until endgame
Down a Survivor with NOED
Open the exit gates myself
Count down until there is less than 60 seconds
Hook the Survivor
Blood Warden activities and even if they save their friend, the Blood Warden will not expire before the Entity consumes them all.
I think EGC is 180 seconds, correct?
It works that way , but most people run out if they see you open the door and wait to hook.
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@NekoGamerX said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3705031#Comment_3705031
you know I may not do it tho I change my perks a lot anyway
I just hate people taking matters into they own hands you know what they call people like that in real life vigilantes.
So you're advocating for Invocation AND you don't like Batman?
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@NekoGamerX said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3704332#Comment_3704332
no I'm am not,the different is what I'm doing is not breaking any rules if no one does anything to me no harm but I'm be doing it to make a point.
point being we all paid for this game so we all can play how we want that means we can bring whatever perks we want bad/good/meta who cares.
we also can play how we want by doing totems/checking chest another thing people get grief for it needs to stop.
in the end of the day remember this is a video game and people take it to seriously
What I'm getting at is we all have things about this game that frustrates us (especially in soloQ). But at the end of the day, we need to be considerate of the others we are playing with (killer and survivor). But we've gotten into this toxic frame of mind that "my fun is all that matters". While this may work well for killers (until endgame chat or an SWF bully squad comes along), survivors have to be more mindful of not ruining the game for the other survivors.
Just because you are within the rules while being inconsiderate, doesn't make it any less inconsiderate. These people are the same ones that come running back to the forums complaining about having to finish the game with 3 bots.
I have played this game since Jan 2017 (off and on), and I think this is the most selfish I've seen the community. Entering a multiplayer game thinking you have no obligations to the other four players...this explains why we have so many DCs and hook suicides.
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@NekoGamerX said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3704317#Comment_3704317
well I'm sorry but people like that should be banned people don't have the right to Troll and Grief someone for perks they bring how they play or anything.
same go's for the “police” other teammates who kobe/SoH
not the players place to punish other players for anything that's the dev job
But you are literally talking about trolling and griefing others, as you scold them for trolling and griefing. Are you a Dev in disguise?
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@NekoGamerX said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703179#Comment_3703179
all these post make me want to run the perk and record every match and het a lot of bratty survivors banned.
I don't think intentional trolling with the intent to get people banned is the answer here. Fixing the perk that is leading to all of this drama (or kill switching that perk) needs to happen soon.
Although, letting survivors see each others loadouts is an even better fix. Then people who take issue with the perk can get back in the queue and those who don't mind the perk can know to get to the basement and help speed Invocation up.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703638#Comment_3703638
The problem with the way invocations work is that with the steep cost, the pay-off required would immediately feel unfair to killers.
The entire perk needs to be redesigned, and probably killswitched until that redesign is through. My personal suggestion is a 30 second invocation that essentially gives you a pocket BNP to install on one gen, and have the broken status dissipate once the BNP effect is in.
I agree that kill switching until redesigned would remove situations like the original poster's. People won't feel like their perk choice isn't being respected and their teammates won't feel like their time/investment isn't being respected.
I like your idea but I would put the broken after BNP is used to give it more of an endgame payoff/risk nudge.
Or remove the broken status altogether and instead give the Killer a way to regress it until used, so it becomes a battle to get the BNP off, lol.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703422#Comment_3703422
So, what you are saying is that if you run perks like Distortion or Lithe, it is understandable and you should expect "getting flamed" by the killer, both in match and end chat, because he doesn't like them, disrupts his gameplay and is frustrating for him?…
That interpretation has to be the furthest from what I said.
Regardless of what perk you insert, spending 2 minutes not doing gens in essentially sandbagging your team. How do you turn a survivor perk efficiency discussion into an "us vs them". I would expect killer would be happy if a survivor spent 2+ minutes in the basement while he hunts down the remaining 3.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703312#Comment_3703312
The most funny part for me is that if this post were about a killer tunneling and camping a survivor and saying in the end chat "You are running Distortion, you deserved it", suddenly everybody who is saying that what OP teammates did was "not ok, but understandable" would be offended that someone was treated that way just for using a perk and calling anyone who used the same argumentation they are giving "unsympathetic".
If Distortion took me off of gens for 120+ seconds and injured you for the remainder of the trial, I would expect to get flamed for using it.
If I was using actual Distortion and stayed off gens for 120+ seconds, I would expect to get flamed.
If I spent 120+ cumulative seconds booning shadow step (which would be slightly useful) in a match, I would expect to get flamed.
Again, I blame game design more than anything. Invocation should never have been created without being useful. And creating a 3v1 for 2+ minutes is not useful. It's like those challenges that require you to throw games.
SoloQ is frustrating enough as in and any and all game additions should take that into account.
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@Firellius said:
Normally I'm all about off-meta picks and the like, but there's really no two ways about it: Running and actually trying to complete Weaving Spiders IS griefing.
That doesn't give others the right to grief you in turn, but I would not be opposed to having the invocation itself be a bannable offense too.
While I agree that using this perk seems like it should be a bannable offense, I would be sooo mad to get banned for using a perk as intended, lol.
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@GolbezGarlandGabrant said:
Reading these comments it's no wonder DBD is in the state it's in.
And this is also why survivors can't have things like knowing your team's build before the match.
Actually, seeing the team's build would fix the issue. As survivors would know and accept what they were in for beforehand. If they are that opposed, they can just leave the lobby, lol.
This is actually bad game design though. A perk shouldn't be so horrible that it pits two players on the same side against each other. It would be like creating a grenade in COD that's colorful and makes cool sounds, but that lowers your teammate's damage output. Yeah you have a right to use it, but your right is negatively impacting your teammates success.
This is the equivalent of someone searching and opening chests for 120+ seconds or booning for 120+ seconds. That person would probably get flamed for not doing gens in endgame chat.
But make no mistake the core issue here is the horrible game design that pits survivors against each other instead of nudging them to work together.
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@jotaro said:
Yeah no, i agree with Ilikechips, they just dont fit in dbd because in reality they would just kill the killers. Same with the AOT skins, like come on, Mikasa and Levi would easily just kill the killer
I felt Supernatural would have been perfect for Evil Dead (if it had lived long enough). But yeah, that license should never come to DBD in it's current state.
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I had the same thought when I read the new survivors perks, "Take yourself to the basement self-care" and "Take yourself to the basement and no-mither yourself".
This will just make soloQ more frustrating (and buff SWF oddly enough). The player using it will get a ton of flack but it's really not their fault. They aren't buying new perks to NOT use them.
It's like developer designed frustration, lol.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3625852#Comment_3625852
Bloodwarden require a hook after the gates have been opened, and i think most survivors know that if the killer opens that gate before hooking, they should get out ASAP.
And it is a free escape, as i already stated :
If the survivor is hooked somewhat near an open exit gate, its a free escape... nothing the killer can do about it.
I always tell my team to open the exit gate before unhooking me for that same reason.
Especially after the grabbing have been removed, survivor takes a hit while im getting unhooked, now i bodyblock with endurance and get sprint boost -> everyone gets out.
Easy win at that pont.
I'm not sure if you understand what everyone is saying.
The person who chose the hook by the gate made it an easier (not free) escape. I don’t know how it works in your games, but in mine, survivors typically only choose their hooks when point farming.
Are you really saying you have trouble securing a kill endgame when u start it with someone on the hook?
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
A long time ago, I saw a lot of people saying that "tunneling is acceptable since Survivors are incredibly strong" but Ive seen this sentiment change a lot over time as people think it has become less necessary and thus less acceptable.
Ive always been a firm believer that either side can play how they want since it's literally a game, though I do not support stuff like harassment and post-game chat toxicity of course. Perks, playstyles, etc, are in the game for a reason and people can do with it whatever they want.
Of course, that's just my opinion, and not everyone is going to agree, I like to hear different perspectives. So is tunneling "necessary" or "acceptable" like it was before?
You are actually right. Before exhaustion and bloodlust there really wasn’t a need to complain about tunneling. Running the killer until Sprint Burst was available again (40 seconds I think), meant that when killer caught you again, they deserved it. Because it wasn’t easy and tunneling was a sure loss for killers back then.
Camping was horrible back then, though.
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FTTE is becoming one of my new favs. It has value all game AND is very nice for finding that last survivor right away.
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3612621#Comment_3612621
Yeah but OG was 100% which 200% healing speed divided by half was 100%. They can implement boons but not the way COH was done.
They need to bring back the CoH self-heal and make it 24seconds ( medkit self-heal 16seconds as well). Get rid of the speed buffs on all of these (better medkits get more charges instead). With any luck, survivors will go back to healing more and spending more 16 second intervals (more with mangled) off gens .
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3612141#Comment_3612141
That’s not the scenario the person was complaining about. The person was complaining that no one was repairing generators. And sometimes that happens because there’s lone wolf survivors that don’t want to place themselves in potential danger.
And besides, DBD should never be balanced around voice comms. The other asym games that used in game voice chat are either cancelled, or have such few players that they really shouldn’t be used as an example of a successful game.
People are hiding because they have a lack of information. Saying, "Shack gen is ready to pop, I'm running the killer" in voice-com would probably get one of the three peeps attention.
World of Warcraft has stolen ideas from EQ2, SWTOR (both are sorta dead), Pokemon, and a slew of other games. That's why Wow is 19 years old and still going strong. It's silly to ignore a game's innovations just because it didn't succeed (or isn't as big as DBD).
Voice comms would actually make DBD more of an enjoyable party game imho. Sure there are clowns that will need to be muted now and then. But given my experience with comms in the other game, I'd wager the good would far outweigh the bad. Especially, since the communities overlap quite a bit.
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@steamed_hamzzz said:
Similar to how Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance was changed, but instead of losing a token for every hooked survivor, gain one
Then when all generators are completed, every survivor with at least one hook state is exposed until the hex is cleansed
This would encourage killers to hook everyone at least once and discourage tunnelling if the killer wants all 4 survivors exposed by end game
Overall I believe this would be a much healthier version of the perk
You don't run NOED expecting to spread hooks during the game. It's for snowballing overly altruistic survivors in the endgame, lol.
To force spreading the hooks, you'd have to compensate in some way (like making the killer faster for X seconds after the gates are powered, or highlight exposed survivors for X seconds).
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/400602/solo-q-is-a-harrowing-experience
How would voice comms help? Would you yell at your teammates to do generators?
You know that in a lot of team games with voice comms, it degrades into a bunch of people yelling at each other, and telling each other what to do?
What are you going to do if you have a lone wolf survivor, that isn’t doing generators because they are literally just hiding and waiting for everyone else to die? Are you just going to yell at them the entire game?
Voice comms works just fine (for family and victims) in another recently released asym game. Also, there's in-match chat to help get around verbal language barriers. Using these tools often makes the difference in a match.
It would definitely help co-ordinate saves, which gen to push, and allow general info exchange (like perk info).
This would be the ultimate step in bridging the SWF/soloQ gap and could allow for the game to be balanced solely around SWF-like coordination.
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It's probably easier to see the effect of a new killer than it would be for a perk. Especially if that perk isn't drastically affecting killrates. With a new killer you can easily look at data and say , "Oh snap! Xeno has an 80% kill rate in high MMR"
Whereas with MFT, even if kill rates lower greatly when using this perk, you have to examine the other perks used with it for trends (Hope+MFT=more escapes or X+MFT=fewer escapes). To see what to adjust and where.
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@MB666 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3531320#Comment_3531320
thats why half of my matches on solo Q are teammates spending years healing themselfs over and over with the self heal penalty?
if the killer just runs mangled , there is no point of healing unless you are facing a spirit or stealth killer , but nah i rather prefer stay injured and do my best with chases and being useful doing the gens.
like you said , you can heal but it takes a looooot of time doing it by youself with mangled. thats boring , i can also bring a syringe for that which is better than default medkits.
^^This. Playing at max health state was always optimal for survivor success. Unhealthy game design essentially made getting to max health a detriment to the team.
Healing yourself takes 50% longer with a medkit and it can only be done once without max add-ons. It's less detrimental to your team to bring a good toolbox.
Self-healing without a medkit was time consuming BEFORE the medkit/self-healing nerf (SelfCare, totem booning for CoH). It’s just irresponsible to do it now.
Resilience hasn't magically gotten better. It’s just a symptom of this unhealthy design. Survivors don’t like running around more vulnerable. It’s like perma-NOEDing yourself.
But when the alternative is heal 50% longer, fewer times; or use an additional survivor’s time; survivors opted to not heal at all. Devs caved to pressure and essentially removed a core component of survivor gameplay (even though we were at 60%+ kill rates). It created the ‘just hammer gens’, speed game, mentality.
Resilience is fine as is. The fix is to make healing feasible and hopefully put the ‘no healing’ genie back in the bottle. But I’m not sure if there’s any going back.
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It's been almost a year since we had official stats. It would be nice to get updated ones. Maybe even on a more regular basis.
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@Tsulan said:
My solution would be:
- regular official Tournaments. Balance around the outcome to see how busted some perk/addon combinations are.
- reverse the gen slowdown perk nerfs. A killer who is busy running around kicking gens, is a killer who doesn´t stand in front of the hook.
- double the time a survivor can stay on the hook. Less incentives to admire survivor cosmetics from close up as killer.
- introduce a different health state for freshly unhooked survivors. 5 times endurance stacking was OP. But OtR should give a different health state than the basekit BT.
- introduce another secondary objective for survivors. Like gas cans that have to be collected and refilled in order to power a gen. Parts that are required for the repair. Make this part of the game more interesting instead of just holding m1.
- remove the instant death if a survivor fails the struggle phase skill checks. Even better, make it a mini game that rewards additional bloodpoints for succeeding in the case of a prolonged basement show with Bubba.
- remove last second switching. Survivors should log their build at least 30 seconds before the timer runs out. Or even better, take the build from the pre lobby screen. No more wasting the full 60 seconds.
- buff the basekit/addons of the lower tier killers. Build up on their unique playstyles and allow for different playstyles based on addons. Like Myers or Hag. So we see more variety across the board and don´t have 50 shades of Wesker.
Not a single one of these ideas STOPS a bubba from standing in front of a hook and downing 2 survivors. None of them stops a Wesker from tunneling off the hook either.
Just like you add a secondary objective that survivors HAVE to do to escape, you have to give Killers a secondary objective that HAS to be done before they can hook and and re-hook someone. Maybe make some kind of hook preparation that needs to be done between hooks of the same survivor.
Camping is easy to solve....*Killer within 15m of hook+no survivor within 5m of hook=no hook progress* (disabled during EGC of course). Move away to start hook progress.
Devs just doesn't want to commit to a "no camping as part of normal play" policy though. Even though, someone progressing the game by NOT actively playing the game should not be possible. Imagine a survivor perk that lets gens keep progressing, just because a survivor is hanging out near it. Survivor does a nearby totem (gen progresses); healing near the gen while it progresses.
And it's not even a perk for killers to do this. It's built in gameplay that has existed (and been abused) since the games creation.
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What's funny is there are pro-DBD peeps over on TCM forums doing the same thing.