ClickyClicky
ClickyClicky
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I still think Ruin is the problem and not Undying. It “always on” which is the only reason it’s so good with Undying. All the other totems have requirements or stipulations.
I agree this combo will get changed as it’s far too common. I think the killer mains have a point though how when survivors run the same combo for years (DH, DS, Unbreakable, BT etc) it’s perfectly fine but when killers do it everything has to change.
If this gets changed and DS/Unbreakable get left alone I can see some very unhappy people and rightfully so.
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I wouldn’t bother answering the question guys. Even the slightest comment about disconnects gets you banned on here. Anything against the game rules gets you banned on here.
Though if you break game rules on stream it seems you get to keep fog whisperer status so one rule for thee and another rule for me it seems.
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@Yamaoka said:
A stereotype P3 Claudette with Object of obsession, Dead Hard, Decisive Strike, Adrenaline disconnected after I downed her quickly at the start of the game as Bubba... At the killer shack... What does that tell you about certain players (not survivors/killers. just PLAYERS). And no, the basement didn't spawn below shack so that wasn't the reason.
Exactly. Some people don't want to play the game unless they feel like they can bully the other player.
Now you tell me what Pyramid Head is known for.
Is it:
A) he can't be bullied in a 1 v 1 due to his anti loop power?
or is it:
B) he typically gets looped for 5 gens ez pz?
Long story short: Play Pyramid Head all you want and ignore those that try to tell you what character to play. Some of those guys aren't looking for any challenge and just want to boost their egos by looping some basic M1 killers like Wraith.
Im getting clicky clicky purple flashlight OoO swf sending me to ormond and stuff. I facecamp and they all disconnect like Im the bad guy.
Some people want to be toxic but dont like it when the other side plays toxic back. Entitlement 101
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Skimmed through but this sounds like a straight up buff.
He needs a rework not a buff tbh and since theres practically no counterplay to his frenzy a missed attack should end it immediately
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@gatsby said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1661833#Comment_1661833
It sounds like when people complained about Soul Guard as being overturned... when it reality it wasn't strong enough to compete with the meta perks at all. Just because it sounded like a crazy concept
Soul Guard didn’t quite make the cut because half of its use required the killer to have a hex perk.
With undying/ruin being THE meta right now there has never been a better time for soul guard to shine
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Send it to Otzdarva. Sounds like the kind of thing that would fit perfectly in his community suggestion list.
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It's RNG
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Probably not. It does little when you need it i.e early game with 4 survivors, and will be at its strongest late game when you might only have 2 survivors left.
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@C_Frank said:
Spirit needs some fixes in the addons. Also update the position of the spirit every so often (1.25s) so that the survivors know if it is in phase and where it is going.
And then she's dead once and for all.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1660784#Comment_1660784
And because killers have that issue it should also be fixed. Just because one side has it, doesn't mean the other has to; both shouldn't. The same with no counterplay (especially with the Ds/Unbreakable/Soul Guard combo), it should be resolved for both sides.
That's like one person having £6 and one having £2. Instead of giving the other £4 to make it fair you're opting to take £4 from one person which just makes both people unhappy.
It should but the developers seem very selective about which they go for and which they don't. At this point I would give up hope of all of it being fixed.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1660747#Comment_1660747
Ah yes, the perfect counter: a perk! Let me just slot this on with Kindred and an obsession perk and Iron Will, oh Fixated + Sprint Burst is good vs spirit too right, let me stick those, and I've got-
Oh.
Oh no it seems I've got more than 4 perks.
Using perks to create the only counterplay to a killer isn't good game design. Everything should have a counter at base in this game, which Soirit currently lacks. No, guessing isn't counterplay. No, don't get hit isn't counterplay.
Killers have the same issue with perk slots and no counterplay to some of the survivor perks.
The guessing thing is a bad argument too.
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"two of them Claudettes"
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I reported someone and it took weeks but eventually they got banned. Not sure if it was my report that did it because I didn’t get an update for a while after their gameban showed. Kept checking up because of these stories about people not getting banned lol
I reported someone last year for being a massive troll basically and they got a temp ban but support replied to me within days. They always used to.
All I can guess at is either they’re currently swamped with reports right now which wouldn’t be surprising given how cheaters seem to have skyrocketed this year, or they’re only banning the cheaters in waves and dont do anything until it’s time for the next mass ban.
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This year has seen a huge spike in hackers. Their anti-cheat solution just isn’t up to the job.
This is also why I think dc penalties should remain off for the time being until they improve the anti-cheat.
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You can hear her in the grass anyway. For attentive survivors this wouldnt add that much.
I dont think she needs a nerf btw
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Play Nurse and slug at 5 gens.
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Trapper. He's a bit of a joke.
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@CrowFoxy said:
Basically this tells me that slowdown perks that are constant with HIGH numbers (ruin) and slowdown perks that do high reduction (pop) inherently much stronger.
You don't need all that info to realize that.
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@Endstille said:
It basicly comes from a narrative that is being told by people that there is no counterplay to pyramid head, since he can fake his power and get a hit on survivors at pallets and vaults. However those people did obviously not watch botb tournament where he was pretty much dumpstered every game aside from one. So losing to him just means they did play bad that round and admitting that is something some people are not able to do as they have no reflection whatsoever.
This is the thing people read stuff online and then parrot it. Everyone disconnects against Spirit now but it wasn't like that in the early days. Then when a certain streamer made a snidey remark, and reddit started to parrot it now everyone feels entitled to disconnect because it's "fact" that this killer is broken and there is no counterplay.
Even 1st gen Legion was the same. Yeah he was badly designed but people didn't used to connect until the youtube videos started coming out, same loud mouth streamer again mostly coincidentally and then disconnects went through the roof because in their mind due to the noise online the disconnects were now justified.
Pyramidhead is the same. People parrot no counterplay and now people feel justified. Meanwhile they'll be running the "small pp build" and not realize the irony.
@Snapshot Ask them if they would prefer it if you play Stridor Spirit, forever freddy or slugging at 5 gens Nurse instead.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1644692#Comment_1644692
You literally called it haha.
Cancels on survivor hit now instead of down.
Yeah there was no way they were letting the original version through.
My next prediction is that Ruin/Undying gets nerfed to dust.
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For me the top row would definitely be claudette, ace, ash and steve
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@[Deleted User] said:
Undying is just about fine imo. The two things thing I'd change are 1) For survivors to get cursed by Undying once they touch a totem, and 2) For a totem counter to be added to the HUD. My experience with Ruin + Undying so far has been that it's devastating in solo queue but just strong against SWF. Letting people get cursed right away would let solo queue players know much earlier that Undying is up, and that repairing gens near a dull totem and such is a terrible idea.
That sounds like a fair one, letting them know that Undying is there.
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@KingFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1659295#Comment_1659295
It'd speed up the process only a little. The perk would still be incredibly useful, but less overbearing. It could still potentially take you FOUR totems to cleanse Ruin. If you get two bad spawns, and they find Undying first, it's game over anyway.
Making Ruin a token-based perk makes it useless on its own. There'd never be any point to running Ruin without Undying. It'd just be too weak.
But at the moment all the other Hex perks feel that way. No point running them alone as they're too weak and bad RNG can have it gone within 30 seconds.
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@KingFrost said:
Undying needs a slight nerf. Just make it so that any revived totems revert to dull totems if Undying is cleansed. It'd still be a powerful perk to combine with hex totems, but it wouldn't be oppressive and killers would maybe actually run other stuff. Much like if we nerfed DS a bit, we'd see some different perk usage but it'd still be a strong perk.
That would make it absolutely worthless as a perk.
Right now there’s a 50/50 chance Undying goes first anyway in which case it does nothing. This happens to me often.
After that I find Ruin goes, then Undying, then Ruin. This proposed change would just speed up the process and boom 2 entire perk slots gone in an instant.
Leaving you with a totem its whole purpose. What good is the perk if your totem goes once Undying is gone? If you get 2 bad spawns its instantly game over.
People are only taking it because there’s no downside to Ruin being cleansed. The other totem perks like Devour, Lullaby and Third Seal all have a downside that is resetting their tokens. Ruin has no downside so why not take it? If Ruin became token based trust me a lot of killers would go running back to Pop and Corrupt and ditch both Ruin and Undying.
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Claudette - Cares only for Claudettte. Won't think twice about sacrificing someone else to save herself.
Spends time at the campfire learning about other survivors weaknesses and how she can exploit them if need be.
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I don't like using it because it doesn't feel rewarding. It's kind of like all the gens got done which is bad but now I'm given free instadowns. I find it more rewarding using a build that stops the gens being completed.
Only time I ever take it is if I get tilted by a game full of second chance perks combined with multiple endgame adrenalines. Then I'm taking it as a counter.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1658717#Comment_1658717
Exactly, so other developers literally have a list of what to do and not to do with their games by simply looking at DbD's example. It's like getting 4 years of balance and development, but someone else paid for and tested it.
So the question still arises: why did those other games fail, when they could very easily see what players like and don't like by using DbD as a basis?
Yeah but no game will be perfect right off the bat.
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You can't counter it. That's the point. But it's fine because survivors are allowed no counterplay.
Now lets focus on gutting Pyramidhead, Spirit and Deathslinger because they have no counterplay.
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This is just my opinion but I think the debate about whether it is OP or not is over. With the backlash it's getting right now including killer main streamers saying it should be changed, and the fact that everyone and their mother is running it I believe change is inevitable. The question now is do you want Ruin to change or Undying?
Listen to what killers players say about Undying and Devour or Lullaby..
"It's useless because tokens reset"
"It's bad because you lose all stacks when it's cleansed"
I'm hearing that repeated over and over again. Without Ruin, Undying would become niche and only used in 1 out of 100 games. Is there really a point to nerfing a perk like that? one that people already see as weak?
Hell you wouldn't even need to worry about aura reading because nobody would run the damn perk.
If you adjust Ruin everything sorts itself out.
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@SadLegion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1658720#Comment_1658720
Where to report with video? In-game with link to youtube? I have no idea, i reported those guys in-game but without proof, thats all. Also how do you know that they were banned?
I met 4-5 lagswitchers for the past month. Yeah they all running No-Mither, Soul Guard, Unbreakable. Cant be picked up, teleport behind when you are on their asses. If you are lucky and pick them up you cant hook them. Also if they jump into a locker they cant be grabbed out of there. You can check their ping when they do all that stuff, it raises up to 500-1000.
Yeah record a video and upload it to youtube after the game.
Submit a report in game - You always need to do this.
Then submit a report on the support site - https://support.deadbydaylight.com/hc/en-us
There's quite a lot of information to fill out on there so I suggest doing it while you're still in the post-game lobby and just alt-tabbing out. You'll need the offenders steam64ID which you can get by entering their profile onto another site (google it), and you'll need your own cloud ID which you can get later. Then put your youtube link in the report.
I know they were banned because their steamID has very recent gamebans on it. It could be from anything since it doesn't list the game but very coincidental when it's weeks after they get reported in game.
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@Hoodied said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1655253#Comment_1655253
I feel this on a physical, emotional, and possibly a third level.
I have used his ranged attack before and a feng standing with her body partially touching it (most likely enough for her hitbox to be inside) and not get hit
Actual represenation of Pyramidhead POTD vs Huntress hatchets
Blue = hitbox
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Record and report. It takes a while but the two I saw have been banned.
While recording press ESC at various intervals too this shows the survivors ping normal when they’re running but then shooting up to 1020ms when they’re on the ground.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1657660#Comment_1657660
F13th's lawsuit came after the game was already on its last legs. F13th failed because most people did not enjoy it.
With F13 and everything after people always say “oh well back to DBD”.
With DBD there wasn’t really anything to go back to.
Anything that comes out now gets compared to DBD but lets not forget this game has had 4 years of balance to get to where it is. If a game came out the all the issues 2016 DBD had now people would not wait around for it to improve they’d just forget about it and go back to DBD.
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Sssh 🤫 it’s a forbidden combo that not many people are aware of. Lets keep it that way.
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@StardustSpeedway said:
I never DC, but I don't enjoy Legion matches because the majority of survivors don't know how to counter him. They all insist on sticking together instead of splitting up to work on different generators. In addition, the amount of self care I see against Legion only to see them get injured within seconds of them getting healed is unbearable.
I once had a match against Legion on Lerry's that had sloppy, thana, dying light, and ruin. The dying light obsession was a Feng and for the first 5-6 minutes no generators were being done at all. I tried powering through, but I always had survivors get downed/hooked, be near me so I would get feral frenzy'd or chased away, while Legion kept getting stacks of dying light. I decided to give up on my first hook since the only generator finished was mine. I decide to spectate and counted how many times the dying light obsession Feng self cared. 7 times. That's not even counting the amount of times she did it while I was still alive during the trial. The match must have gone for 25-30 minutes where no other generator was done.
That's why I dislike facing Legion as a solo survivor. I won't DC, but if I see that no one is bothering to do gens and self care, I'm out on my first hook. No thanks!
Thats the issue right there. Often it’s the stalemate. When Legion isn’t getting hooks but the survivors aren’t getting gens done either, it’s just a constant cycle of frenzy, mend, heal, frenzy, mend, heal and the game slows to a crawl. Its the dullest thing in the game. Add in Ruin regressing those gens and it’s a disaster.
People can talk bad about new Thana all they want but I believe Legion with Ruin/Undying and Thana is going to be an absolute nightmare to face. It’s going to be constant mending and healing while your gens regress or having an extra 20 seconds or so on generators. Throw in Dying light for extra gen slowdown, or thrill since with new thana totems will take 26 seconds if you have 4 stacks and you have a recipe for disaster.
He needs a rework asap.
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In addition here are some suggestions for Ruin.
Causes generators to regress at default speed (1/4)
Everytime you gain a token it increases the regression rate by 50%
Base: 100%
1 Token: 150%
2 tokens: 200%
3 tokens: 250%
4 tokens: 300%
5 tokens: 350%
So at base you lose 100% of what you have now until you get 2 tokens, but then you have the chance to get 150% extra regression over what you have now. Considering with Devour you can kill at 5 tokens its not OP.
Naturally tokens reset upon cleansing and this solves the Ruin/Undying OP issue everyone is complaining about.
Alternatively but probably not as good is the Thrill of the Hunt approach...
Hex Ruin: For every totem remaining on the map gain 50% to regression speed
5 totems (start of trial): 250% regression
4 totems: 200% regression
3 totems: 150% regression
2 totems: 100% regression
1 totem: 50% regression
So it starts out a tiny bit stronger than it is now but if it does come back it’s coming back weaker and weaker everytime. This in addition to its current counterplay where if you take out Undying first and then Ruin the effects are instantly gone.
This is if you want to change the undying/Ruin combo which I assume you will.
Changes like this allow survivors to feel like they’re making progress when Ruin is cleansed but respawns which I think is the issue they have now. It also allows Undying to stay as it is which is good for devour, lullaby and even third seal.
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@SkeletalElite said:
Undying is probably going to get nerfed at some point in the future TBH. Even a lot of popular killer streamers like otz and hexy think it needs one.
If I had to guess what they do they're either gonna remove the aura read or make it to where when your undying is destroyed any totem it respawned, despawns.
And at that point Undying is dead and worthless.
I think they should just change Ruin.
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Legion with Ruin and thana.
I had to use legion for a daily the other day and after a few minutes of this 2 of the survivors chased me down because they gave up and wanted to move on.
Honestly its worse than watching paint dry. Hold m1 on gen, get hit, hold m1 to mend, hold m1 to heal each other, now your gen progress is gone from ruin, hold m1 on gen again, hit with frenzy, hold m1 to mend, hmm no point healing but now from thana I get so stare at a red bar and have a repair progress slow down. Get chased off gen and watch progress regress, get 1 hit down, hooked - and at this point its easy to see why many survivors just give up.
Legion is crying out for a rework. With Undying/Ruin being meta and now thana getting a repair speed buff Legion will become an absolute nightmare to play against. Its lose/lose especially if he brings Thrill of the hunt or dying light. Constant mending/healing with gens regressing which leads to more M1 holding or staring at a red bar all game which means longer m1 holding which also gives him more chance of kicking you off the gens and having them regress which is even more M1 holding. I’m bored just thinking about it. Thana works on totems now too so yeah I would expect many survivors to give up against a thana/undying/ruin legion.
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“(b) if undying goes down, re-lit totems are extinguished as well.”
Please tell me you didn’t get this from Otz. I’ve been worried that people would parrot his awful suggestion.
This would render the perk completely worthless. Its already RNG based and for me it goes first 9/10 times away, if not then its Ruin -> undying -> Ruin, so with this suggestion the few times undying works would be taken away as well.
Undying is fine and even healthy for the game and the only perk that makes totems worth running. Nobody runs totems otherwise because they mostly disappear within the first minute.
Lets just look at how totem perks work and interact with Undying first of all...
Totems that require tokens gained
Devour Hope - Does nothing at the start if the trial. Requires the killer to gain tokens before it takes effect, upon being cleansed all tokens are reset.
Huntress Lullaby - Requires tokens for an increased difficulty in skillchecks. Technically applies the 6% at the start of the trial but nobody is missing skillchecks without any lullaby tokens gained. Upon being cleansed all tokens are reset.
Third Seal - Does nothing at the start of a trial. The killer must gain tokens by hitting survivors individually and applying blindness. Once cleansed the tokens are reset.
Totems that lose tokens
Thrill of the hunt - Increases cleansing speed of totems. However this gets weaker the less totems there are. If this gets cleansed and respawns it will come back weaker everytime.
Totems that don’t activate until cleansed
Retribution - Sits there and does very little (oblivious on dull) until it’s cleansed. Once cleansed you have your aura revealed for 10 seconds.
Haunted Grounds - Does nothing throughout the trial until it is cleansed.
Other totems
NOED - Nobody is gonna say this is a good perk but you got the entire trial to find and take out Undying before you ever need to worry about it respawning this. Thats plenty of time.
Ruin - Active from the very start of the trial until the moment it is taken out of the game. Does not require any tokens to gain full strength. Does not lose strength with cleansing. Does not require an activation.
So based on all that I ask you is the problem really with Undying? Or is it with Ruin?
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The first week it was amazing. Past few days though survivors seem to be getting them totems really well. They’ve adapted.
I havent played against it yet but I know I would hate it as I hate Ruin anyway. Play solo and spend 60 seconds on a gen just to be chased away and by the time you get back its next to nothing. It’s The Legion of perks, just hold M1 for infinity. Speaking of Legion him with slowdown and Ruin has to be by far the most boring thing in the entire history of the game so I’m not surprised so many survivors are willingly jumping on hooks against it. The perk is kind of weak against SWF as well since swf can just ask someone else to finish the gen for them not to mention get the totems easier. But I said this ages ago that new Ruin amplifies the gap between swf and solo.
I think it will be changed just because it’s a pretty effective universal combo. Im gonna go against the grain and say its not ultra effective especially for every killer but it is the thing you automatically feel like using on everyone, and from what I hear everyone is using it anyway. Undying is fine with every other totem perk so they just need to change Ruin if anything.
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I feel like when word started spreading about this perk on midwich it gave the perk a boost in popularity even outside of midwich offerings.
Of course lets not overreact. Its not like it breaks the game with swf and is considered one of, if not the most annoying perk in the game. The developers have bigger priorities as you can see from all the perk changes they’ve made recently.
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Basekit Billy was the most balanced killer apparantly.
They got rid of problematic add ons and the overheat barely comes into play.
So I guess what you’re left with is the most balanced killer in the game
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F13 got cut short with a lawsuit.
Re: Resistance was sent to die by Capcom, they never intended for it to be a longterm thing.
The others were indie games. Sure DBD was too originally but it wasn’t going up against anything else at the time.
The genre is still too niche for bigger publishers to take notice.
So yeah expect it to stay this way for a while.
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Why is everyone trying to gut Undying? What is even the point in that nerf? From 4 respawns down to 3, would it even matter? Thats only a worse case scenario anyway. For me Undying tends to go first the majority of times.
Things dont need a nerf just for the sake of making a change.
Also blocking pallets every 30 seconds as a non-hex?
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1657399#Comment_1657399
I'm hoping the devs don't cater to survivors who refuse to cleanse totems but also want their effects to be negligible.
I have to say the first week it was really good but now it’s a bit overrated. Those totems tend to go earlier than they did before and survivors somehow find Undying first in 90% of situations.
But everyone and their mom is running it so I still think its gonna get changed. Only one side is allowed to run the same perks over and over again for years straight.
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@Tactless_Ninja said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1657460#Comment_1657460
Instructions unclear. I shortened the distance between myself and the ground.
When you’re running to a window/pallet and the killer is a few metres behind and you can feel that at the current distance, and the rate at which hes gaining on you that you will be hit as you vault the window or drop the pallet then you press E to add a bit more distance between you and the killer and now you can safely make the window or pallet.
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I prefer pallet Freddy :(
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Use it for distance, now it works and it's OP.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1657380#Comment_1657380
In my trials, if I can't find Ruin after checking 2-3 totem spots, I just stay on gens. It works most of the time, taking into account trials where Ruin is eventually found by someone else.
There is no problem with the Ruin/Undying combo, it's just survivors wanting to avoid having to cleanse totems, as usual.
You really think it won't get changed?
In my opinion at this point it's inevitable. So it's just picking which hex perk gets changed. I'd just rather keep Undying as it is so maybe I can have fun with Devour or Lullaby once in a while and not feel screwed if the survivors spawn on the totem and it's cleansed in the first 30 seconds as I would get another chance with it.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1657352#Comment_1657352
Ruin is the odd totem out. It doesn't operate like any other Hex. All the rest either gain strength with tokens, lose strength with tokens, or need to be cleansed before they activate.
Third Seal and NOED say hi.
Moving on, just because Ruin doesn't work like some of the other hex perks doesn't mean it needs to be changed. Perks are allowed to operate differently, even if they share a common mechanic. Furthermore, Ruin is also the only perk whose effects you can be blissfully unaware of the entire trial. It literally won't do anything if you never let go of a generator.
Third seal does require tokens. It doesn't do anything until you get tokens i.e. hit a survivor, when it's cleansed you lose those tokens. Hence why it's not overpowered or unfair with Undying.
NOED is a weird one. Not many people will say NOED is a fair perk. But hey it doesn't activate until the end of the trial at least. You can cleanse the totems early and not feel the effects of it, unlike Ruin where you'll be feeling the effects until all totems are gone or you find the right order. In fact it's very likely that Undying would be gone long before NOED ever comes onto the scene, unlike Ruin.
Yes just never let go of gens, why hadn't anyone thought of that. Genius strategy I'm sure that will pay off for most survivors.
Ruin is the problem in the Undying/Ruin combo. That's what we're debating here. Everyone else is saying nerf Undying to fix this, I'm saying change Ruin and keep Undying.
That's if the combo gets changed but at this point I would say it's almost guaranteed. If how Ruin works is causing the problems then yes it does need to be changed to operate like other hex perks, or something new even.