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@ToxicMyers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1657347#Comment_1657347
Nerfing ruin? Now where have I heard that before?
You don't have to nerf Ruin, just change it. Everything that's being proposed for Undying is a hard nerf. Go check out Otz awful recommendation which would kill the perk.
Ruin is the odd totem out. It doesn't operate like any other Hex. All the rest either gain strength with tokens, lose strength with tokens, or need to be cleansed before they activate.
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@gibblywibblywoo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1657313#Comment_1657313
They're both under the opinion that Ruin being able to spawn 4 times is unfair. But it doesn't, really. Sure it CAN. But how low are the chances of Ruin being cleansed 4 times and Undying 0? Better yet when has a game ever played out where a survivor hasn't cleansed at least 1 or 2 dull totems early game? I always spawn on at least 1. 2 days ago I spawning the shack with a Hex.
Also LMAO at them nerfing Lullaby.
I say this as someone who plays survivor solo, on very rare occasions with 1 friend but we play no comms. And I have no problem finding all totems with small game usually under 2 minutes without being a major letdown to my team in regards to gens. Other solo players and SWF have no excuse. Its complaining about killers finally get a GOOD new meta when survivors have had the same meta for 2 and a half years.
Yeah but nobody cares if devour, lullaby, or any other hex perk respawns 3 times because it's going to be niche.
It's like they're determined to keep Ruin. I'd rather have Ruin changed and keep undying. If you nerf undying then we're back to the days where your devour is gone within 30 seconds.
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@gibblywibblywoo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1657244#Comment_1657244
Adrenaline I agree. Fine solo as it rewards good gameplay but just like DS broken in SWF.
Tombstone piece afaik micheal can get 2 potential kills. It's considered OP by most as tombstone gives you a major speed debuff for the kills. Piece doesn't. I kinda agree though. At the very least there IS a tell. Hand open just jump in a closet so I'm 50/50.
I personally believe moris should be outright stripped from offerings and be Devour only.
I imagine the NOED situation would stay as a potential hex. I agree it would be broken otherwise.
I agree with the Spirit changes. I mained her for a while but don't play her anymore as even against "good" survivors/swf she was just too easy to play. I actively dislike playing against her moreso than Legion/DS or Pyramid. I think shes very poorly thought out and adding small blinks to her phase would massively increase her skill ceiling which is something a lot of killer claim to want. 'Mindgames' would actually be mindgames.
Hag I agree wholeheartedly, the only reason we don't see this complaint more is that she's underplayed as most find her boring.
Trapper I've been playing a lot recently and his traps have so many counters already its absurd. Ad on the fact that Dead Hard is already insanely strong for a reusable perk. I've literally had to drop chases as a Dead Hard over a trap has locked me in a long loop and I've had no choice but to place my current trap and pick up the already place one. Devs have long forgotten about their mascot. Sad.
Again, undying. The aura reading could go and it'd easily still be top tier. Said aura reading makes TOTH pointless anyway. The changes he and Scott have brought up on steam are silly and would neuter the perk. It's risk reward. The risk is that undying goes first. The reward is Ruin/other hex perk stays up. We need more Hexes that actually reward you like Devour and Ruin and less like Lullaby or Third Seal or that absolutely trash Slinger one that no one even remembers.
What did scott say about undying?
I've given my thoughts many times. It's a good healthy perk for the game as it more totems a little bit more than just a meme. Hex perks were never viable but at least this perk gives them a chance.
Every other totem either requires tokens to gain strength (devour, lullaby, third seal), loses strength as totems are cleansed (thrill of the hunt), or they don't do anything until they are cleansed and then they have an effect for a limited time (haunted ground, retribution).
Ruin is the only totem that always has a strong effect from the very start until the very end. It doesn't require tokens yet it doesn't need to be cleansed to activate. You don't need to nerf undying you just need to rework Ruin so that it works like any other hex perk.
Its like everyone is throwing undying under the bus to save Ruin.
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@gibblywibblywoo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1657155#Comment_1657155
I thought all of the killer changes were pretty good. Would make a lot more killers viable without making them OP. I'd love either this Micheal change or just outright deleting EW2 from the game.
The point about Keys/Moris ruining matches was also pretty sppot on in my opinion.
I disagree with his stance on undying and a few other small things.
What did you have problems with?
Moris - It's a temporary fix but won't last long term. It sounds more balanced than what we have now but everyone views this game from their own point of view. Some survivors will be thinking "well I wasn't hooked twice why should I be taken out of the game early?" survivors won't be happy because they may still not get a "full game" in some scenarios, and whoever the 4th survivor hooked is they will likely be immediately tunneled off hook for the mori just like now. It's a temporary fix that won't satisy survivors in the long term.
Tombstone piece - Likewise, if Myers can't ever get tier 3 again what does that matter to the survivor who got instantly taken out of the game with the tombstone piece? one survivor is going to have a crappy game.
Undying - The aura is negotiable but having any respawned totems disappear when undying is cleansed would kill the perk instantly. There's a 50/50 chance it will be the one that goes first anyway. In some games you get ruin taken out, then undying not long after....and that would be 2 of your perks gone in an instant. It just won't be a viable perk with his proposed change. I get everybody hates this undying/ruin combo right now but if you took ruin out of the equation Undying would disappear overnight. It's a niche perk that actually makes a totem build viable as you have a second chance if hit by bad RNG. Just change how Ruin interacts with it as Ruin is the only hex perk that's causing a problem.
Exhaustion add ons - these are fine. Ever pulled off an amazing long range shot as Huntress or threaded the needle with a hatchet just to be outplayed by someone pressing the E button? it's survivor entitlement that they have these second chance perks always available. Besides you can use most exhaustion perks early anyway only DH gets cucked and since that perk cucks M1 killers in chase extremely hard I think it's fair.
Spirit changes - Moving foilage is fine and i dont know why she doesnt since you can hear grass moving anyway but having her be partially visible would kill her overnight.
pinky finger - doesn't make clown much different to a hillbilly imo but it's whatever. Not too fussed about this one.
Trapper - mostly good changes but i'm not sure why he doesn't say DH shouldn't get survivors over traps. Sometimes you get an indoor map and it's harder to hide traps, so you use them to deny entrances like doorways etc but a survivor can just DH right over it and then you need to stop and pick it up to continue the chase. It's ridiculous how overpowered this perk is against Trapper.
Adrenaline - What a ghastly perk. The heal on hook has never been the issue, the issues is multiple swf all getting an instaheal and insane speed boost at the end of the game when there's only 20 seconds left on the clock. Anyone slugged they get up, anyone you're chasing they get healed and boost away to the other side of the map. It needs a much stronger nerf than he's proposing.
NOED - Again sounds ok in theory but you have to consider every scenario. There's now no counterplay to NOED, if the killer camps an endgame hook and has a few tokens then say goodbye to any chance of an endgame rescue. It would be incredibly powerful if survivors weren't notified of NOED too, 1 on hook as last gen pops, 3 go in for the rescue unaware and the killer just whacks all 3 down.
Executioner - I saw Otzs live polling his chat. This killer just had changes yet they want more. They want him to be unrecognizable.
At least he mentioned the lose/lose situation with The Hag though that nobody seems to bring up. They spam traps around the hook and stay within a close-medium range. You unhook the survivor..
- If you try to heal them the Hag comes back and tunnels (even we'll make it isn't fast enough)
- If the survivor tries to crouch walk away they're too slow, the Hag comes back and tunnels
- If the survivor runs they hit a trap and get tunneled.
All you can do against campy hags is purposefully set off a trap to try and get a BT save. It's one of those lose/lose situations the devs aren't fond of.
It's just my opinion but Otz for a number of reasons lately has been coming across like he just wants popularity and says what people want to hear.
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@supersonic853 said:
Your joking right? Id go and post a entire essay on the problems but otz already did a video on it i suggest you give it a watch.
Yeah as much as we rip on the devs I'm much happier with the game in their hands after seeing that video.
Very disappointed that someone with 5k hours can come up with some of those horrendous or mediocre changes but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and just assume he's after easy popularity.
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If I have to play Legion for a daily I get survivors just giving up on hook, hell yesterday they hunted me down so I could hook them out of the game after a few minutes of mending/mangled add ons and ruin/undying.
It's only going to get worse.
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It sounds like your issue is with the ranking more than anything else. Red ranks have been full of potatoes for a while now. You get the people that are new to the game but play a lot, maybe 150 hours but still make plenty of bad decisions and don’t have a meta lodout and then you have the teams of 6000 hour god loopers. All of them within a few ranks of each other.
MMR would be the solution if they can get it working.
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@CalamityJane said:
It's the issue with Undying, it does all the work for you. You don't need to be vigilant and patrol totems ever because you can see them being cleansed. Then when someone cleanses it doesn't matter because they have to do it again and again. It provides so much pressure for doing absolutely nothing as killer.
You can’t really “patrol totems”, for one the killer can’t ever see dull totems so they can’t protect them. In terms of Hex totems they only take 14 seconds to cleanse. A killer can’t always patrol gens....by that I mean gens get done obviously the killer cant defend every gen forever, how do you expect them to defend a totem when it takes 66 seconds less than a generator to remove?
If a killer keeps breaking chase or away from gens to defend totems then thats more gen time for survivors. Killers aren’t omnipresent.
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Probably Hillbilly but they’re all really good.
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@BigBrainMegMain said:
The day DS gets nerfed, killers will start complaining about Dead Hard, or Borrowed Time or back on Sprint Burst and then beg for an Unbreakable nerf.
It will never be enough with killers, ever.
I’d have Dead Hard nerfed long before DS. I can play around DS whereas DH for distance kind of ruins low tier M1 killers.
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Hes a weak killer and most dont know how to play him very well either they just soam bottles.
People are probably doing a daily. Pick a killer who is already weak and you dont know how to use and they just resort to the cheapest tactics.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1656127#Comment_1656127
I get camped and die, while the other idiots are waiting in an attempt at an unsafe hook, and letting the gens they were repairing regress because of Ruin.
Ouch. Feels solo queue man.
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No. Normally if a survivor disconnects its on the first down at which point they’re normally just one of those entitled claudette mains, dont want to be seen so they pick Blendette and rage quit when caught.
The others are the toxic survivors. Tbag at every pallet and then rage quit when tunneled. Not so fun when someone olays toxic is it?
The others are survivors that disconnect after someone else has. I get this, they shouldnt have to suffer a tilted game because somebody else quit. I normally go easy on them though and 2 hook everyone before sacrificing anyone. If 2 people dc then I offer the others the chance to farm, sometimes I let them do gens and escape or sometimes if I cba I kill one so the other can have hatch.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1656040#Comment_1656040
That’s what I try to do, but the killer is on my ass within seconds of attempting to cleanse any totem, including dull.
I feel like those killers are doing it wrong. I’d only do that if i had nothing better to do at the time and you were close.
Ruin only works if you chase survivors off gens so ideally the killer should be pressuring gens and not worrying about totems. Defending Ruin all game isnt the answer, ruin is just there to buy you extra time when defending the gens.
How do the games go? Do you win?
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@DaKnight said:
I've had people load into my game and get crows immediately. I'm pretty sure this is ragequits but if you do it in the first 45 seconds to a minute it's free. It's only happened when im ######### over the SWFs. Coincidence?
As survivor ive had the opposite. Someone disconnects within the first minute and the game plays on.
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I think this is a bug. One survivor doesnt load in, in the game they appear afk, then after a minute or so it says they disconnected and ends the game but they never actually loaded into the trial
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Thana and thrill make your first totem cleanse 26 seconds of uninterrupted time btw
I personally think Undying is fine right now. At least for every totem other than ruin. Trust me the killer will be busy plenty of times, if they keep defending totems then do some gens.
I do think thana and thrill on totems is too strong though especially on killers that have mobility or that can easily injure multiple survivors
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@xenotimebong said:
Deliverance I’m okay with, because they can’t tell you they have it so it’s really just one of the inefficiencies of solo queue. Can’t blame them too much for wanting to use their perk. Trying to kobe in the face of a rescuer is annoying though and I’m always tempted to turn and walk away when people do it.
I blame them for deliverance. If they use it early fair enough but if they use it when their close screw them. Someone left an objective and made the effort to come for you hy deny them points? And why put yourself into broken status when they might have we’ll make it or something? Its just a dumb play
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The game was dead when they refused to sell it solo. Truth be told I don’t think Capcom had any plans of this being a longterm thing.
I had some fun with the game but when the playerbase dwindled you ended up in a scenario where most of the people left where the tryhards with hundreds of hours. Unless you were bringing the meta you didn’t stand a chance of winning - this applies to either side. DBD is like that too but Resistance took it to the extreme. Play survivor and you got a level 50 rushing multiple fully buffed lickers at you before you’ve even left the starting area. Play mastermind and you got sam tanking everything and running straight past everything you put down, martin stunning your tyrant or controlled zombie anytime you get close and then finally that brings us to Rocket Jill....the angel of death, the reaper of souls, the end of all hope. All I can say is it was both hilarious and disgusting watching people play rocket Jill with mixtapes for cooldown and then trying to tell you with a straight face that it was balanced. Lol they’d rather have the game die than lose their invincible build.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1655301#Comment_1655301
14 seconds, not 5.
Haha yeah im falling asleep so put 5 twice.
Either way totems arent very strong....ifs whats on the totems that matter, and if you take Ruin out of the equation I havent heard anyone complain about Undying.
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@MrSmashem said:
Just want to comment on the Undying perk change. You can make an argument for the Aura reading capabilities of it(which is only 6 seconds at tier 3, which means that unless you're actively looking around when it activates, you might miss it), but I completely disagree with changing how the transferring between Totems works, in the current state of the game.
Theres a reason Undying/Ruin has become the go-to combination for Killers, even becoming stacked with Corrupted and Pop, and that's because Gen's in their current state are a massive problem for Killers, particularly when the Survivors are focusing them and playing efficiently. The reality is, most Killers cant keep up, and those who are the most capable can still have issues against SWF and highly efficient teams.
The perks arent necessarily the problem, they are just being used as the result of underlying balancing issues within the game. Before you fix the Perks, you have to fix the underlying issues. Some advocate for longer Gen speeds, some advocate for extra Survivor objectives, some advocate for smaller maps and less pallets/more unsafe pallets. In reality, Undying/Ruin almost forces a secondary objective on Survivors(which only works out a percentage of the time), and that imo makes the game much more tolerable as Killer.
Whatever you believe, I think before reworking perks(minus a few), the fundamental/core structure of the game needs to be balanced without Perks etc. Then we can move on to reworking the Perks, add-ons etc. The Perk meta is just the symptom of much deeper, core problems with balance and should be used as insight into what needs fixing.
I agree but I think Ruin is incredibly boring. It becomes a cycle of hold m1 - gen regresses, hold m1 - gen regresses.
The devs said they dont want to increase gen times as they dont want people holding M1 forever but if you look at the killer meta now, undying/ruin/pop/thana and things like forever freddy etc it all becomes about survivors holding M1 longer in the end because they’ve never added any meaningful alternative objectives and totems dont really count.
Im not sure the current maps could support it or not but I think it would be better for both sides if the regression and speed penalty perks were phased out in favour of more objectives.
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@gibblywibblywoo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1655214#Comment_1655214
As a solo player I disagree wholeheartedly with Undying being OP. I cleanse all 5 totems easily as a solo. If you're worried about being caught just wait for a chase/down.
Thats what Im saying man thank you. Totems are still very easy to cleanse. Only 5 and they only take 5 seconds.
Maybe Ruin constantly respawning is a little oppressive but thats a Ruin issue because it works different to any other totems.
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Meanwhile for pyramidhead the hitbox is the size of dwights arm
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Remember when listening to Jund caused all the issues with Oni? Which he later flip-flopped on and then so did the devs?
I’d rather they didn’t listen to someone whose income relied on how much people like his videos aka how much his videos repeat popular opinion.
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Oooh I forget this was active. So that explains why Plague felt so bad tonight. I thought it was either in my head or the hotfix but no this explains it.
Didn’t try Huntress but yeesh I guess I wont be using ranged killers anymore. I’m in the UK and getting matched with people from the other side of Europe so its always going to be tricky.
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@Raccoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1655032#Comment_1655032
Embarrassing.
But to offset whatever 'that' was....
I really liked his idea regarding respawned totems becoming deactivated if Undying is cleansed. That would be a pretty neat and unique mechanic that still requires 2 cleansings to remove a single perk :)
Do you have any idea how quick those totems get cleansed?
Devour and lullaby have always been memes because they go in 30 seconds. Hell they’re still memes that fail more than they work but at the moment Undying actually gives them a chance.
People keep crying about Undying but its only Ruin that is the problem. If you gave Ruin tokens that would fix everything.
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@gibblywibblywoo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1655009#Comment_1655009
I'd say when its someone who is regularly in contact with the devs, is a fog whisperer and plays the game for 6+ hours everyday for multiple years for a living their opinions on balance probably have a lot more worth than the average forums user.
Not to mention that the devs pretty much straight up used his LF rework idea (to our knowledge, they may have had that concept in the works already).
No he’s just got this list from the community thats why half of the ideas are junk
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@Endstille said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1655190#Comment_1655190
old ds could be dribbled.
Which took time and sometimes there wasn’t any hooks nearby.
Thats not including the sneaky 35% ones you couldn’t prepare for.
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@gibblywibblywoo said:
I'd prefer the Undying aura be changed and given to Thrill than the removal of respawns.
I use small game and have no problem deleting totems solo.
Lmao just read the Undying changes.
We finally get a good perk that makes totems viable and he wants to kill it immediately.
I’m starting to dislike Otz. He comes across like one of those celebrities that is too focussed on saying the right thing so people will like him.
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The community often comes up with stupid ideas. You can’t just take community suggestions and slap them in the game even if they are popular.
Some of these are band-aids rather than real longterm quality fixes.
Oh wait its Otz so it all must be true. Not like he doesn’t just try to please the crowd plenty of times.
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We already had that day when it got changed last time.
I can’t help but feel some killers do just want free reign to tunnel when they act like this. DS could be problematic at times but it actually wasn’t that often for me, not like old DS was.
These players that act like DS cripples them every game I’d love to see their playstyle.
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I dont see why. You dont need them locked into an animation to get the hit so these maps should be no different.
PH is OP so killer sided maps like hawkins and the game should be a piece of cake for him
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I grabbed a screenshot from a youtube video and used a website to slap on a filter so it's a bit rough.
What do you guys think? is it literally just a blue sky/filter effect that the map needs to make it feel like Macmillan estate? to separate it from the other realms?
Here's an image of the current one I grabbed from google...
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They call it "aim-dressing" and yeah it seems to hurt you more than it helps.
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DS just needs that damn terror radius sorted out. How is it one ranged killer has a 45m lullaby and the other has perfect stealth?
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1654202#Comment_1654202
Exactly! Agree with you 120% Survivors often don't want to admit that they are the weakest link, so they want to shame killers for applying optimal strategy to them. Well, too bad, but blame it on the matchmaking that you got unlucky and matched with stronger teammates.
There was one notable match in tournament where Otzdarva didn't tunnel and he got 0k once survivor team figured out his playstyle. Against experienced optimal survivors in SWF, the only way you can win by not tunneling is if they goof around and go for fun play instead of rush.
Its not always the weakest link, the killer just tunnels the first person caught. That's why 5 gen chases exist because the killer only chases the first survivor they found.
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So many unhappy solo players on here. Can't you just create a topic to share gamertags/names with people in your region? you don't even need to use voice comms if you don't want, look at Fungoose, he plays swf with no voice comms but he wins because he's taking good players into the game with him. It's often a different story when he plays solo.
Rank reset changes really did a number on the solo survivor queue. Its never been the same since.
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I think those early players deserve it. They kept the game going and helped it grow.
Look at what they put up with so that the rest of us could later enjoy the game. Genuine infinites, old moris, old BNP. It was insane back then.
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stretched screen is something you chose to do, bad ping isn't - unless you're purposefully playing in a different region on a vpn then yeah it's cheating (looking at Nurse players)
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The new grass in there is scary. It's a hot spot for Trapper. I wonder if this new grass on all maps will give him a bit of a boost in popularity.
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@konchok said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1654741#Comment_1654741
You're playing pinky finger wrong. Step 1, throw bottle to slow down survivor. While they are hindered and can't dodge use pinky finger. Pinky finger is too strong and should be nerfed.
Even so you have to get up close. Get up close and aim M2 for an instadown.....yeah sounds like another killer.
So an Iri add on makes him slightly better than another killer at basekit, except he lacks all the mobility of that killer.
Seems problematic.
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Otz often makes good points but sometimes he gives off the impression that he's trying too hard to appeal to the community, telling them what they want to hear.
Moris - I still don't think people will be happy. Their line of thinking will be "well I wasn't hooked twice why should I be mori'd?" Not to mention the 4th survivor hooked will be the one who gets killed immediately off hook which is another major complaint.
The Iridescent head change is fine but what's wrong with Pinky Finger? has anyone actually played Clown with it? it's hard to hit.
Here's how pinky finger plays out...
- Get up close behind survivor
- Carefully hold M2 lining up the shot
- Try to hit them with it, if you miss repeat until you land it
- M1 to instadown
So you have to get up close, carefully line up the shot and depending on the survivor movement may need more than one attempt at it...
How is that any different to Hillbilly's chainsaw? even Leatherface is similar to a degree.
I think people freak out about Pinky Finger because it radically changes The Clown but he's really not very different to a Hillbilly. He can handle loops better but doesn't have the traversal speed so they're about on par.
Tombstone piece - remove T3 forever, yeah I'm sure the survivor that got killed with the tombstone piece will appreciate the change. 🙄
Exhaustion add ons are fine. Considering how a tap of the E button can completely negate a well aimed shot by the Huntress player I don't think these are OP at all. Survivors are just desperate to have their no skill required ez chase extenders on demand.
Map offerings should be disabled regardless. Yeah it would stop some fun builds but map offerings are just used to radically change the balance and it's not fair. If anything I'd turn all existing map offerings into anti-map offerings. i.e. all my Ormond offerings become anti-ormond offerings so that when I use that the game loads any map but that one. No more picking the easy maps but getting rid of the maps that are really not fun for certain killers like nurse on lerys, wraith on azarov's etc etc
Making Spirit visible would kill her overnight and Executioner just got changes yet they're already talking about more.
I saw parts of the video yesterday and it just felt like Otz pandering to a chat full of DBD reddit users so I turned it off.
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As survivor: Mostly the indoor maps. Hawkins, Lery's, midwich. I don't find The Game as bad. Hawkins and midwich are diabolical though.
As killer: Anything with corn, hawkins, midwich, azarov's resting place, haddonfield, badham, ormond, sanctum of wrath. Probably more.
No joke the only way I cope as killer is when I get a bad map I think to myself "At least it's not Rotten Fields". Gotta remind yourself there's always a worse map out there.
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In fairness you should play against a killer too before defending them.
Case in point old Freddy. Fun to play as, tiresome to play against. For me Ghostface is in the same situation.
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The ones that make me laugh are the ones that say “iM nOt jUsT gOnNa lEt U unHoOk iN fRoNt of My fAce”
They say this as they spend 40 seconds roaming the hook within a 12m radius even though there has been no indication a survivor is there.
So tell me when did you plan on leaving so we could get the unhook?
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I find it interesting how so many people run this now and how so many survivors run ahead of time and just hold W making you waste as much time as possible if you want to chase them.
It’s very effective but when I learned to play survivor the meta was to sit on the gen until the killer is in your face and then worry about the chase. I’m one of those people and kind of always expect most survivors to do that like they used to but a lot of people are playing differently now.
This new generation scares me.
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Nemesis with instadown rocket launcher would be amazing.
Survivor: Anyone but Jill please I still have flashbacks to “that other game” 😖
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It would still feel pointless. It I spawn in on the saloon I think “well guess I gotta break these walls first” and it’s just me wasting a bit of time opening the doors.
I get what the developers were going for but I dont think its that great. Its just like having pre-dropped safe pallets I guess.
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Yeah but ain’t nobody got time for that. Most people use the simpler way - Do I win? Yes = perk is good, no = perk is trash
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@Endstille said:
Just practice nurse, any OoO user regrets to bring the perk when you decide to tunnel.
Pyramid is doing ok with them. When they look at you from the cage and give away their aura, their own perk brings about their death. I love it. Theres always someone that will farm them just as you make your way over there too so no need to worry about the cage disappearing.
I can see that getting changed though because “its not fair to OoO users” 🙄