ClickyClicky
ClickyClicky
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You play in a 3 man swf. Thats where the power role feeling comes from. You get 1 rank 20 in your game? Play solo and try having 3 of them, or having a red rank but who doesnt have many hours on the game and still plays like a rank 20.
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To a degree he’s right. Survivors find looping fun, and those with a lot of playtime do enjoy putting their skills to the test and chaining pallets/vaults to run a killer for as long as possible. I agree wjth that because I find Myers and Bubba a lot of fun as there’s no real trickery, you can loop them successfully for as long as you can read their attack.
The problem is there is pushback on the other end. While its fun for survivors to loop a killer for 5 gens, it’s not fun as killer to be looped for 5 gens. This is why you often see people say “oh this killer doesn’t have anything that helps at pallets therefore they suck”. I don’t think matchmaking helps either, putting 2000 hour survivors vs less experienced killers resulting in 5 gen chases.
However just because a killer cant be looped doesn’t mean they can’t be fun. A lot of survivors find Nurse fun to go against as long as its not a 5000 hour pro nurse. You juke her in different ways, so as long as theres a fun counter non-loopable killers can be fun too.
Spirit - I don’t mind her power, I think it can feel rewarding predicting and outplaying a Spirit for multiple gens. I’ve done it a fair amount. She’s still has to go around walls and pallets so she isn’t Nurse bad. Only issues I have with Spirit is how people play (they always phase walk to hook to hard tunnel) and the fact that she makes up at least 30% of games you get as her pickrate is sky high. She’s not the most fun but I personally feel there is enough of a counter to her to stop her from being awful to play against.
Only killers I would say are truly boring are Legion and Deathslinger. With Legion yeah theres a counter to his second hit but his first hit theres nothing to it. You can guess where a spirit or nurse will be but with Legion if hes close enough when his frenzy is active it doesnt matter what you do hes getting the hit. If you vault anything he will vault right after you, if you run he will quickly catch up to you. At least with spirit if she tries to guess which side of a window you’re on and gets it wrong, boom she’s on cooldown and you run away. Nurse likewise, shes gonna need to eat a fatigue and then try to catch up. With Legion he will just turn around tap space and vault right back. You’re only option is to wiggle about and try to 360 which wont work against anyone half decent and isnt even an intended thing for survivors. Theres zero interaction to legions first hit, zero. He’s so damn boring. Then on top of that after being hit with zero interaction, you now suffer with an injured health state and are stuck with the choice of either 1) Staying 1-shot, 2) Holding M1 for a while to self-care, 3) running around the map looking for someone else to hold M1 and heal you, and you’ll probably need to heal them too. Since its legion expect to be doing that a hell of a lot throughout the trial.
Legion is awful just absolutely awful. There’s no interaction to him. Just a free hit with no skill required and a game full of holding M1.
Plague - I dont mind Plague strangely. Whereas Legion injures you instantly Plague takes time. She has to puke and puke and puke if she wants you injured quickly. This is possible to avoid as well. Likewise while she may get free injures, she also gives you quickheal fountains which remove the tedious part of Legion gameplay. Plague is like Legion done right.
Deathslinger I’m glad Scott mentioned him because Im starting to find him very boring and not very interactive and I’m glad Im not the only one. On his initial ptb be wasnt too bad but now as people have figured out how to play him it feels like no matter where I am, no matter what object I out between us he manages to drag me around it or walk around it himself and get the hit. Its ridiculous. Feels like all you can do is drop some pallets early, but then with his instant aiming hes gonna get you anyway, and that instant aiming allows him to zone you as Scott said. I would say he’s the only other killer along with Legion I find truly non-interactive and boring to play against. Combine that with his broken terror radius and the fact that to date I have not seen a single Deathslinger NOT A SINGLE ONE that doesn’t proxy camp and tunnel and I just flat out hate going against him.
Ghostface is my most hated killer in the game but hes not specifically boring, and with changes he could become tolerable. Deathslinger and Legion are definitely boring though for the reasons mentioned.
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Theres a huge difference. A lot of second chance perks feel like they rob the killer. Old DS, old mettle of man, dead hard, Adrenaline etc (new DS and BT are fine)
Most instadowns are fine. Its a horror game afterall, it just adds a little extra tension.
Haunted grounds, myers, current Bubba, devour hope, make your choice. All feel fair enough with enough counter play or restrictions on them. Theres only 2 instadowns at the moment that are cheap and make the survivor feel robbed, one is Hillbillys chainsaw the other is NOED. So one is getting addressed and NOED is basically a second chance perk itself
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I agree it’s basically a third health state. Problem right now is that it’s all DH is good for due to the servers. Maybe with server side hit detection DH would be more reliable and then perhaps the distance thing could be looked at.
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Because it sucks when you play well and get robbed by a perk rather than skill.
I don’t mind new DS, don’t even mind BT. Only ones I dislike are Adrenaline, Dead Hard and NOED.
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@Mikeasaurus said:
I actually find posts about NOED funny. They're always the same. 'It's a second chance perk that rewards zero skill'. My counter to this: 'It's zero skill to hold a button on a gen for 5 minutes'. Do totems, and NOED never activates. But since most survivors just want to slam out gens and rush the door, you pretty much ask for NOED to activate.
Spoken like someone who doesn’t play survivor
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@DwightOP said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1432360#Comment_1432360
Are you mentally okay? These people were not only claiming that billy ez pz but also that he has no skill and everyone can 4k. So if Billy doesn't take skill what do you need time to train for?
And I'm not even asking to challenge me and my team with ptb Billy. He can take live Billy with strongest perks, strongest addons and ebony mori. He can also pick any map he wants. We WILL be shitting in him and get 3 escapes.
😂
At which point I would win then you would say “now do it without the ebony!”, then “without the instasaw!” Then “let us pick a map we consider to be balanced!” And it would never end until I was playing Billy with no perks, no add ons.
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I’d say he’s too strong for how easy he is to use. He stomps beginners and generally stomps even average teams. A team of really good survivors will give him a run for his money but in general you pick Doc and you’re gonna win most of the teams you come across without too much trouble.
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Whats strange is how quick they were to fix it yet leave camping/tunneling so prevalent in other killers (Ghostface/Deathslinger etc)
Can’t rely on perks either because I can’t force people to take DS or BT, and most of these killers with camp/tunnel problems are killers with little to no terror radius
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I would normally agree but I don’t think it even matters at this point. You can be purple or red rank and still find random rank 15-20s in your game.
This is why I stopped playing. You have to sweat your butt off while playing but with no chance of escaping. I’m not exaggerating but you actually see these survivors just walking around the edge of the map afraid to go anywhere near a gen. They last about 10 seconds in every chase. They don’t have DS either so the killer quickly tunnels them out within the first 2 minutes of the game.
The ranking/matchmaking is by far the biggest problem the game has right now.
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He’s not stronger but yeah he’s easier to play and less interactive for sure.
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“Literally the reason this game has a camping issue is that you have so many perks that are meant for use after getting unhooked, so why let them off the hook in the first place?”
No, the perks were a response to the camping issues that were already prevalent in the game.
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I hate to be one of those guys....but I do feel like a lot of survivors don’t know how to play against Spirit. If you have aura reading perks as survivor you can see this first hand. They either stand still at pallets or just run to obvious locations.
Dont get me wrong there are times where you can only really run forwards and Spirit will easily get you but there are also many times where you can make it really hard for a Spirit to predict your movement.
I feel there are other killers that need looking at more than Spirit
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Also for context it took 4 survivors co-operating to bring 4 good toolboxes and 3 bnp to do that, most of those items would have been used up quickly, with the BNPs gone immediately.
The killer could have easily brought an ebony which would have lasted all game.
People act like killers dont have their own add ons/offerings to counter such builds with
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
A game that ends with 2 gens done, a 4k, and a 2 pip despite survivors doing the first gen in 17 seconds and getting a 59 second ds off on one of the more survivor sided maps in the game.
I'm sorry man but if you're trying for the narrative of "killers are weak" this fails at proving your point. There are so many games where gens are done in seconds why would you choose the game with a 4k and a 2 pip at the end of it?
This happens everytime. Everytime we get a genrush video, the killer always wins.
Almost as if there was something to what Almo said about first few gens going quickly and last few gens taking longer.
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Playing solo survivor I see so many who cant last more than 10 seconds in a chase, farm teammates, hide at the edge of the map, or just make boneheaded moves that screw the team and throw the game. Some of these people are red ranks, because people who have very little time on the game can get to red ranks now.
Killers are handed free win after free win....yet come here and complain about how hard killer is lol I’m convinced people have 1 bad game against a 4 man swf and forget about the 10 previous games where they crushed a solo team
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Yep. Solo survivor has been dead for over a year now. These kind of clowns or boosted newbies make up 95% of games.
Its like people just really find generators boring....I get that but then maybe you shouldnt be playing the game.
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@Jasonisanicefella said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1432183#Comment_1432183
yeah really boring to verse especially when proxy camping
To date I think I’ve seen one, maybe two GF tops since his release that didn’t proxy camp. Thats every single GF aside from 1 or 2 since his release over a year ago.
Haven’t seen a single Deathslinger not proxy camp or tunnel yet though 😂 not a single one
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Considering I’ve been kicked twice by EAC for no reason, and had a few games being put with trolls who have no intention of playing properly I would hope it never comes back.
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Ive considered it recently. Here I am with 2000 hours on the game being put with survivors with 100 hours, they’re red ranks too. You can see their auras, they get hit, run in a circle, get hit 5 seconds later.
5 minutes in the game and the only gens done were done by me, the unhooks are done by me, and everyone else is lasting 5 seconds in each chase then yeah I’m gonna bail. Its so tiresome being expected to carry a team every game
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Because if a killer plays poorly they still get a few kills with it.
What you dont see the fairness in that?
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I’d actually uninstall at that point. By far the least fun killer in the game imo
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I’ve barely played the game in 2020. They ruined survivor for me and being left with half a game didnt sit right.
The survivors you get put with are either trolls with no intention of playing normally, or just complete rookies. I just got matched with 2 rank 19s and a rank 20 for no reason. One of them failed a skill check on a gen 5 times......they’re more of a hinderance than a help. The matchmaking is so bad and even red ranks arent genuine red rank skill level anymore.
Then of course you switch to killer and discover where all the good players went. Heres all the rank 1s that know how to run every loop with precision.
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Monitor is straight up disgusting on him but it works out good for killer so it gets left in the game 🙄
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@Sunri said:
it's impossible to play "perfect" when you have 4 different people one bad player can lose the game for entire team its much easier for the killer to play perfect when he doesn't need tor rely on random people to win.
This is why I find killer less stressful. I sweat so hard as solo Just for some clown to run around taunting the killer with a flashlight and going down, or someone who takes a hit....then runs into the basement for a save anyway easily giving the killer 2 basement hooks.
I have a much better winrate as killer than solo survivor. The days of playing solo and getting a good team are long gone.
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2 and 2 isnt that bad. Theres enough of a lack of communication there, and you wont get all 4 survivors running a combined build i.e all instaheals etc
Its 3-4 person swf where it becomes problematic.
3 man swf is normally bad for survivor too because the solo gets treat like dirt often by the swf
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Theres definitely a number of killer builds that will crush your average survivor team.
Its really the 4 man on discord 10,000-20,000 hour combined playtime groups that make the game look survivor sided. Against solo or 2 man swf its not like that.
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The joys of SWF
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I agree it is too much for standard items like medkits, I would take a guess though that this is being done to stop survivors farming keys from sacrificed survivors
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Freddy. Thats where most of the complaints are.
Huntress doesn’t need a nerf aside from iri head+infantry belt combo
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I never really found him that much fun in the first place. Just seemed a little dull to me. Some of add ons look like they allow for experimentation though
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1429613#Comment_1429613
And what's the difference in a faster Huntress windup and a faster charge on a chainsaw?
That's right, no difference.
One is harder to aim and does 1 health state of damage, the other instadowns a survivor
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I dunno it’s an interesting direction I think. Could give each killer more of a speciality
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As a survivor new Ruin is more boring if you’re playing solo.
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@Ivaldi said:
There's absolutely nothing wrong with the maps.. and Indoor maps are extremely good for silent killers and Doc. Survivor wise, the only map that is killer sided would be Meat Factory. The rest are completely balanced on both sides.
Balanced? Lol Hawkins has like a 70% kill rate
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@Sir_Bassington said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1427850#Comment_1427850
his base kit alone isn't that easy or good to use at red ranks, its easy to spin him or make him miss when he doesn't have insta saw or crack, and the only counter to good jukers is to rev it and pay attention to the charge bar, you have to be a W gamer to get hit by a back reving billy with base kit. any good killer knows you have to capitalise on survivor mistakes in order to snowball heavily escpacially with billy, people who get sniped by huntresses aren't paying attention, just like all the other killers, i wouldn't say a plague mowing down 4 surviors during the end game with corrupt has much "skill" involved, neither does oni, just bad plays by survivors in general get cocky after bullying a killer for 3 gens straight and die on first hook during the end game after all resources are used up. his addons needed a nerf yes, but not his base kit like this. its too overbearing. why did you change your profile pic to billy 4 days ago? ive seen you on all forum posts about billy where you brag about carrying your solo queue teams against billys who take no skill, lmao.
But there was plenty of killer mains on here who tried to argue that Billy was the most balanced killer based on his basekit.
Now we hear basekit isn’t enough....
and there SHOULD be a difficulty in using the chainsaw. Its unlimited instadowns 24/7. If you took instasaw every hit was a chainsaw hit. That was one of the problems with him. Every other killer had to work for an instadown kr came with downsides, except for Billy
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@Sir_Bassington said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1427811#Comment_1427811
any killer can do that, oni can do it, huntress can do it, nurse can do it, hag and trapper can end a match in seconds with proper trap placements, etc. any killer can turn a game arround as resources gets used up and survivors make mistakes.
They can, but it takes skill, knowledge or luck on the killers part. Thats why if a killer played poorly they would likely end the game with a poor result.
Billy could do it pretty damn often. Hell he could do it right from the start of the trial. Bring the right add ons/perks and even mediocre players could do it easily enough.
He was too strong for how easy he is to use.
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@Valor188917 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1427771#Comment_1427771
This is the main point about how "balanced" billy is and why i Ignore any BS coming from the community about gamedesign. Balance is always relative to other similar design elements.
Was Billy Balanced back when there were still infinites and selfcaring took 12 seconds so basically an M1 killer could never down a competent survivor AT ALL? Absolutely
Is Billy balanced now in the new DBD against optimal survivors? Yes, actually yes.
How often do you run into optimal survivors with the current matchmaking tho? You'll run into them quite frequently. Will there always be 4 of them? Heck no.
Is Billy balanced when compared to other killers in a more unrealistic scenario of what Billymains call "potatoes vs billy"? ######### no, no other killer can snowball as hard as billy and all it takes is 1 bad apple in the team for it to lose.
Freddy and Spirit are arguably the most oppressive killers in the game right now but even against Freddy and Spirit I can try to make plays by bodyblocking etc, Billy punishes that with a readily available no-offside instadown.
And the thing is, if you go against a bad Spirit who gets looped for 3 gens then aside from a NOED crutch, shes likely not going to perform well that game.
With Billy he can be looped for 3-4 gens and still turn the game around in an instant with a few lucky chainsaw hits.
Its that that made him too oppressive imo bring the right add ons and it wasn’t hard to do either.
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@Valor188917 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1427745#Comment_1427745
I'm not saying that u ran billy for 3 minutes, I'm saying that once a billy sees you're too good he will just go off and insta** the weakest link and it's game over. And in contrast to clown for example he can do it WAY better and punishes mistakes WAY harder.
All of the tryhards with perfect builds play billy for a reason, no matter if they're actually good or not.
This. I’ve had games where I’m the only one not going down to a chainsaw in 5 seconds, I’m forced to tbag and tbag and tbag the Billy in the hopes of getting his attention to save the team which I hate doing but if the other player knows to ignore the loopers for the potatoes what can you do?
What bugs me is how all these killer mains say “oh bad survivors”, but the thing is none of these Hillbillys were very good. Just bring instasaw and anti-loop perks and you saw boosted Billys shredding teams, these same players wouldn’t have been able to do that with any other killer. Like the killer mains expect the survivor mains to get good but the killer requires very little skill on their part.
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@Tactless_Ninja said:
I keep seeing people associate Billy with skill. All you do is bulldoze into people and never M1. God forbid Billy actually use his mallet.
And they're now saying Oni is a stronger Billy. Oni can't 1 hit down everyone within the first minute of the match. Oni absolutely deserves what he does because he earns it. He has to build it up first.
Billy deserved everything he got.
With that said I've been watching streams and he can still cruise along in the level even when overheated. And an on-demand 1 hit down is still incredibly powerful. But spamming or even revving it in people's faces until they make a mistake is now long gone. It's now more on Billy to make a conscious decision on how to use his resources.
Quoting this so the posts of reason don’t get drowned out amongst the sea of salt.
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Naughty Bear, you know they want to do it too.
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Am I the only one that, as a survivor hates new Ruin more?
Old ruin stalled progress but at least you made progress. Nothing more dull than going solo queue, holding M1 on a gen until it’s 80%, then going on a lengthy chase and either losing the killer or being hooked but either way you get back to your gen and realize its either at best down to 20% or its completely dead. Then you gotta hold M1 all over again.
But hey play swf and you render the perk worthless as you just ask someone else to finish it for you 🙄 closing the gap between solo and swf, one perk at a time.
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The same reason survivors bring all their broken things I guess. People find it fun using their best loot and since it doesnt save progress its basically free moris.
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@Endstille said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1427657#Comment_1427657
It is not just LF. Spirit is very strong and so is freddy and also ph. But hey all just a coincedence, just wait when they gut huntress too.
Again, all dirt cheap and old aside from Pyramid head.
Theres only a few free killers anyway so it makes no sense to compare. Nurse was free and by far the strongest killer in the game for years, hell in the right hands she still is. Huntress is good and free
Doc and LF were paid dlc for 3 years and weak, Pig is still not that good, Clown hasn’t been really strong either.
I think you’re trying too hard to make your theory work.
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Nurses and sloppy are good on Spirit. I used it before it was meta, now every Spirit runs it and quite honestly its awful to play against lol
I dont play her that much but usually my build would be something like Nurses, Sloppy, Discordance, Corrupt. I’d swap discordance for BBQ if I wanted bloodpoints, and maybe seap sloppy or corrupt depending on the survivors. 4 items and I may have brought franklins etc
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@Laffle said:
Ruin everything about a free killer, and buff a paid killer with a fun and fresh new kit. They know EXACTLY what they're doing.
It’s like £1.99 right now on steam. I very much doubt they nerfed Billy and buffed LF with the idea that they would make mad profit from a 3 year old dlc standalone killer whose selling for pittance.
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Just remember, all the killer mains here swore over and over again that Billy was balanced due to the basekit timings of his chainsaw.....even though nobody used Basekit Billy. Now they’re upset that his add ons dont affect the charge time, cooldown or curves of his chainsaw anymore.
Proves how disingenuous they were being and how they really played Billy.
If basekit Billy was “the most balanced killer” then what’s the issue with the new add ons?
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1427588#Comment_1427588
Yeah, and his ability to sprint to the other side of the Map, kick the Gen with PGTW and then return back for the Unhook might have become too much over time. And lets not forget, everything which applies to standard M1-Killers will also apply to Billy, who has the same abilities like M1-Killers (in terms of Movement Speed and that he needs to loop), but also has really high Map Traverse or a quite easy to use Insta-Down without Setup.
Those are both things which are present on other Killers, but not both of it and weaker. Like, Freddy has the Teleport, but no Insta-Down. Myers and Ghostface have Insta-Downs, but no mobility and need Setup. Bubba has an Insta-Down without Setup, but not the Map Traverse. But Billy has it all and if something is good for M1-Killers, it is even better for Billy.
I am not happy with the Add Ons tho. I dont like some of those, because there is not really any real scenario where I want to be a 4,4m/s-Killer just for some Chargetime or where I want to go a little bit faster while being flashlighted.
That’s what I was telling people here for months. The instadown is incredibly powerful, thats why most have a time limit, except for old Bubba but it was balanced off with slowing him down worse than a survivor while charging and a huge tantrum if he hit an obstacle. Billy basically had no drawbacks and with tuning guide/thompsons mix/plug combos that chainsaw basically replaced his M1.
The add ons are weird but I think they want to avoid add ons that mess with the chainsaw timing and curves, since those were part of the problem on Billy to begin with. Without touching the chainsaw charge times he cant mindlessly spam the chainsaw like an M1 against good survivors anymore.
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Yes, very much in fact.
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I’ll tbag on his grave 😎