ChaosWam
ChaosWam
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3736002#Comment_3736002
Well they just nerfed ds and I think tunneling increased instantly after that happened 5s was fine only bit too much for m1 killers. 4s would be fine if it disables killer power for short around time so then ds would actually punish S-tier killers. They should definetely give ds 80s timer like otr too that 60s goes too fast and I have to let killer down me often.
They nerfed DS and they nerfed the two top regression perks. Of course tunneling is getting worse.
And you can buff DS to the stars, it won't make tunneling stop. To some killers, it's better to risk the DS stun and go for the already weak survivor than start a new chase in a new chain of loops.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3736751#Comment_3736751
I played the other day againts a Sadako on this map And we got nuked. Tvs Across floors hitting you, TVs behinf walls, She being everywhere since Its also small map.
That is also an issue, but as Sadako, you notice a few things.
TVs next to each other, TVs that aren't near gens like they should be, entire areas where a TV should be are empty, way too large to reliable exchange tapes depending on the spawn logic.
It's not just easy to apply condemned in certain areas, it's also just really bad for her normal movements too. I consider it just badly implemented for both sides.
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Throw Sadako's TV's into the mix here.
@ChaosWam said:
I threw myself onto the new map to see how bad the TV spawns would be, I assumed due to the nature of the map having a long vertical setup it would turn out with some odd spawns, but I did NOT expect this. I'm the kind of survivor who enjoys facing Sadako on RPD and The Game, for the record.
I pretty much gave up and let the 4 others escape, because right next to killer shack was 2 TV's roughtly 8-10 meters away from each other. If I hook near it, wait for the save and teleport anywhere, it was a guaranteed 2 stacks.
So, after I let them leave that match I hopped on customs to really see if it was some kind of fluke. It's much worse than I thought, however, and I will provide photos of my findings:
Note: Some of this is speculation as I have not faced a Sadako on this map, but from my testing with bots I managed to rack up a ton of condemned, so let me know if you can gain multiple condemned stacks from TVs close to each other.
Let's start with exhibit A-1 and A-2: Knight Armor Hallway and Torture Room cell next to tunnel:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/U8QC21RSLU4D/capture-png.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/JHO5338EPD6Q/capture-png.png
This combo is the most consistant, and it seems (from my experience with how TVs spawn) the suit of armor hallway TV is supposed to be paired with the generator next to the bottom of the staircase leading to the dungeons, OR the arcane library room, I have not fully decided on that yet. This has three problems right off the bat:
- 1. The obvious, vertical condemned gain. Within reach of both TVs on a teleport, you'll get 2 stacks.
- 2. Getting to the generator from the knight hallway, both the stair gen and the library gen, is pretty far and kind of pointless without the fingernail addon.
- 3. Condemned does not reach the two generators I spoke of if they're working on them. Might be a pro for survivors, considering the tradeoff.
Exhibit B, or an example of a TV's logic being wonky:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ABLAFEBEK07R/capture-png.png
I drew lines to show which ones are paired with which TV as an example.
Exhibit C:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/CUHTMWCBOZ9M/capture-png.png
And Exhibit D:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/7XRQJ6O3YA93/capture-png.png
Main point being, I re-generated the map a handful of times and kept getting very similar situations with close-proximity TVs, TVs that aren't very useful to get to generators, and problematic TVs for condemned build up. I don't know how oppressive or not this is against Sadako, as I said this was just me experimenting, but I'd like other players insight on this. I'm also curious if Xenomorph's tunnels have the same oddities.
I was laughing my head off when I first went to the map and saw 2 TVs next to each other by killer shack because (I assume) the other TV isn't set to spawn next to the arcane library generator.
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The only thing good about Bedham is when survivors stop struggling as I drag them into killer basement because their plan to block me inside the school basement backfired.
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Personally I love the darker maps, makes it look like a real horror game.
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It's even more whack when I play Sadako, where sometimes the TVs can't even get me near a generator because it spawns one TV next to another TV on the surface instead of underground with it's paired gen…
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Don't tell that to the ones who cite the stats for arguments, he's way up there. He can't possibly be bad.
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I can't say much for killers I've faced, but I do have two things I enjoy doing on Dredge and Deathslinger.
Dredge, I slap on NOED/Game Afoot/Rancor/No Way Out with addons to reduce teleport cooldowns and break all the locks at endgame. I then teleport to lockers to watch survivors, letting his ambient dark stuff seep out of the locker. Sometimes, survivors just open the locker for me and let me get a stack of No Way Out. Once endgame hits, begin actually taking chases and get Mori's. No real BP gain, but I find it kinda funny to do.
Then there's Deathslinger, where I slap on Insidious, Franklin's Demise, Nurses Calling and Iron Grasp. I then send myself to any map with a house to use, and declare that my property. If survivors walk into my yard or into my house, I drag em in with the spear, take their item and chase them off. If I down them, I pick them up and put them on the sidewalk/edge of my property. I'll also change my steam name to 'Old Man Jenkins.'
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This is not a bad breakdown of her.
Me, personally, I will still argue she doesn't need both haste and hindered at the same time. My reasoning versus your Wesker argument is the hindered is applied if a survivor is max infected, where as skull merchants is just 3 tags from the drones AND she gets the haste at the same time. Wesker can move fast, but in smaller doses, where Skull Merchant's haste is active as long as each survivor is tagged. Which, to be fair, shouldn't be too much if survivors are careful with the drones. I guess between SM and Wesker, Wesker's mechanics feel more fairly implemented, which is important to distinct.
I also say this as someone who enjoys playing SM myself as a stealth killer.
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@Ohyakno said:
The problem is that sadako can do stuff, on occasion? Ok then.
The problem is consistency.
On most maps, it's just 'TV is near Generator' because that's the best way for her traversal and condemned spread without being too much (cough exceptswamp cough)
On this map, you now have multiple stacking condemned, which can or can not be easy to cleanse anyway, in exchange for your movement being kneecapped depending on how the map generated the TV's. Heck, some of the TVs can't even reach their paired generator in terms of condemned range.
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I don't know, have you SEEN their bots?
The ones I go against that have low hours and skilled looping are usually just new account players/script abusers depending on if they have subtle haste. I wouldn't jump to the bot thing.
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@HolyDarky said:
I didn't test it but the same goes for Xenomorph because the game use the same spawn logic for her and Sadako. I wonder how the fountain spawns for Plague looks like.
This is just awful. On other maps the spawn logic can be very awful but it's so sad that the developers keep doing this. The developers must rework these spawns.
And I thought the music room TV on Midwich was bad until I checked this out. That one has a spawn behind the reception desk under the music room, meaning you had to break open the secret stairway to get to that gen unless you use that TV to stack up condemned, bad for both sides.
But THIS? This is ridiculous and kind of funny I could consistently get these spawns.
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To avoid another Made For This situation.
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@WashYourHands said:
has this happened with dredge tp?
Dredge can thankfully leave that room. Unless you can heal yourself down there, Vecna's Hand can't bring you back out if you're injured.
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I got this pallet today.
I looked at it, then looked at the survivor who threw it, repeated that for a few moments and left.
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@tjt85 said:
It's Killer Instinct so yeah, no way to counter it.
Except getting the loot that shows the sphere.
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This has been happening long before Chaos Shuffle.
And to be fair, a few people had asked for something to be done on a mechanical level instead of buffing DS, which now anyone who tunnels will just eat the DS and continue to tunnel because it's most likely still going to be the faster option. And you can't buff DS further because of those who attempt to weaponize it with off-the-hook bodyblocks with OTR and rushing to lockers hoping the killer activates it with a grab.
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Lethal isn't a problem if you know how to loop or counterplay the killer.
The only one who gets extremely good value is nurse, and we shouldn't kneecap everyone else because of Nurse.
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I wouldn't mind that at all. Though I'm not sure what her power would be specifically.
Toshio should absolutely be a locker jumpscare of some kind, though.
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Just because the killer can see me, doesn't mean the killer can loop.
Love, an Object of Obsession enjoyer.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3733242#Comment_3733242
Remember when they nerfed medkits and killers complained about genrushing?
I remember genrush complaints alongside medkit complaints.
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@BbQz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3733234#Comment_3733234
"Testing" you realize a wiggle free isn't even a escape it's a 10-20 second delay of your capture tool boxes even with the buff are far cry from the effectiveness of a flash light. Period.
Your wasting gen speed (charges) on a hook your wasting repair time just to result in the killer dropping and chasing you instead now your in chase one is down and a third is most likely pulling away from objective to help the downed person all to basically turn the match into a Scooby Doo style chase as the whole team is buzzing around the hook as the killer switches from chasing one survivor to the next to protect their current investment (the downed person)
This is a "trap" update to get people off of gens why do you sabo isn't meta right now? It's just to much of hindrance on your whole team as it's just taking multiple people off the objective.
You forget there's 4 survivors with only 1 needing to commit to hook breaks when avaliable, using an Alex's Toolbox to nearly guarantee a save in SoloQ and absolutely guarantee it with coordinated SWF while 2 others knock out gens.
And what, is the freed survivor just running into a deadzone after? No. They're doing loops to extend the chase another minute.
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@ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:
Ive caught several people trying to go into the portal, i just pick them up once i get to the other side. The only invincibility they have is if they make it through before your hit connects same as a vault
I feel like it's kinda both true?
I've ran a few killers doing this and sometimes they get the hit, other times they just smack the wall. Sometimes they hit when I'm further in, other times it tells them no when I just start the transition. Perhaps it's latency playing it's role, but it's probably worth noting the portals could possibly have issues.
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It makes Sadako look better, it's kind to my eyes for scratch marks, I'm happy.
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You know I completely forgot about his buffs while I was playing him yesterday.
But I feel like he could benefit from one or two of your suggestions. I tend to run him with undetectable related perks due to the TR.
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I talked about it before, kept being told it wasn't going to be an issue.
From my own testing, it won't work well in SoloQ with uncoordinated teams, but even 1 save can result in 1-2 gens popping before another down if survivors are doing their tasks. So as I guessed, it's a SWF buff.
Prepare to drop your fun builds to counter it.
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I saw 3 hooks around shack, WITH basement inside.
I think a few of the outside hooks can be downstairs.
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Unless you get uncoordinated SoloQ and good hook spawns, you're risking squads just holding the match with sabo plays and map offerings.
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I also play both sides a lot, starting as killer and now have a 40/60 split with killer at 60% in my overall 2100 hours. I'll go through your list with my own experience.
- I also recommend this. There's horrible toxicity between the survivor and killer mains, and if they played both roles they'd understand more about the problems each side faces. I especially urge players to try every killer they can, and every survivor perk combo they can think of to fill different roles to really see the issues.
- This is also true, to a degree. Flashlights themselves are tricky to pull off, but add in Background Player and flashbangs and you'll be more consistent.
- Very true, and I'd also add a lot of killer perks are also kind of on the weaker side. I think survivors have it worse though, because they have more perks on average with more survivor releases than killers. We also have to remember with 4 survivors, having 1 good perk can stack to having 4 good perks and compound any issues. See Buckle Up+For The People, pre-nerfed Made For This, and the old versions of the Decisive Strike/Unbreakable/Borrowed Time/Dead Hard groups.
- Absolutely true. I've had good games, don't get me wrong and I'm escaping in SoloQ enough for me to not be too upset, but I'm finding my problems lie with the other survivors more than what the killer brings. I make mistakes, sure, but other survivors can straight up mess up you giving them a bodyblock of all things. I had a match today where I was taking a hit for someone and they Plot Twisted in the middle of chase. Best part? Killer kept going for me despite me not having a flashlight or Buckle Up+For The People. Even worse, I see survivors not touching gens or not getting unhooks at all, sometimes just… Standing around doing nothing.
- Agreed. I also say this for slugging. Both have their places and I can understand when it happens to me. It's just bad when it's at 5 gens.
- I can't bring myself to hate a specific survivor because they're all just skins with different scream pitching and pain noises. It's mainly just people who latched onto that content creator mindset I guess?
- I absolutely love going against Sadako players so I can relate. I love seeing their builds and what works for them that I don't normally do on mine. I also love seeing other survivors knowing nothing about counterplay. Really validates what I see as killer.
- I've been reported for unhooking. SoloQ.
- Agreed. Something to help with gen speeds, but something survivors will naturally do and not throw the match for.
- Know what feels even better? Seeing killers who RUN your build. I saw a Deathslinger run my gen trap build (Unforseen, Trail of Torment, Call of Brine, Surge) and it was whiplash feeling that being used against me, on the same killer I run that build on no less.
- Won't touch on that because that was answered above already.
- I was the same, but Vittorio is the one original survivor I like running. Otherwise, Yoichi is still my highest prestige because funny yellow coat.
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Ehh… Maybe, maybe not.
I'm more excited for Dracula.
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I don't think gen times need touching, but I do think progression/regression needs some kind of hard cap.
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@D0NN1ED4RK0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3730521#Comment_3730521
is holding tapes still makes survivors immune to condemn? Sorry for the random question I don’t play onryo but I’ve read most of the patch notes regarding her back and forth reworks
Nah, but taking tapes does stop the nearby TVs from being active for 70 seconds iirc. Pretty simple to just exchange the tapes around, I do that occasionally against Sadakos.
I'm guessing if I wanted to force condems I'd have to do slugs, which I am not looking forward to. At least with Pyramid Head I could try to play normal even against sabo squads.
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Vertical maps are fine, the problem with Bedham though is it's a mix of that and how large the map can be. Killers that don't have reliable movement suffer hard.
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I noticed the same. The pallet/generator/etc needs to be broken with the manual break, no killer powers.
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I just know sabo sqauds are gonna be the ones who get the most value, holding the game hostage as long as possible on maps with poor hook logic and layouts for boil over.
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@D0NN1ED4RK0 said:
Can’t wait to play even more phead and just cage survivors followed by outright deleting half of their builds and denying them their sabo plays 😎
I'm personally wondering if I can play in a way to force Sadako mori's, but Pyramid Head is looking mighty fine this patch.
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@Choaron said:
People like OnePumpWillie have proven for years now that you can reliably get Sadako moris every match against half-decent teams. It's against top level teams that you can't and no, you pretty much never go against those.
Ehh… Not really.
I get mori's only because survivors are careless about TVs. If they actually take the few seconds to handle a tape, they keep the condemned off of them pretty easily. Unless you're running ring drawing, survivors who know how the tapes work will keep their condemned low to none.
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Clunky but rewarding when you get hits.
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@ItsBoe said:
Oh okay. That's so weird because after gens are done is when they're most likely to camp….
It's also when the killer has no other objective but to get a kill. That's the reason it disables at endgame.
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@HEX_DEAD_BY_AI said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3730360#Comment_3730360
Yeah, if that was all, this post wouldn't exist 😎. I have a small note at the end of the post.
I'm confused then.
If this is endgame collapse…
And you're saying 'if that was all'….
…? What's the problem here?
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I mean, I main Sadako, but 40% of my playtime is survivor. So, not really a killer 'main'?
I guess a real killer main would exclusively run any and all killers and put all their time into killer role.
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If this is endgame, it's fair game.
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@HamsterEnjoyer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3730011#Comment_3730011
Might as well add MLP then
I'd certainly be afraid of the aftermath.
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Horror is subjective.
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@ecliptikk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3729809#Comment_3729809
this is interesting because i don't mind indoor maps on killer or survivor, but i loathe at the sight of entering RPD at the start of a trial. that's the only map i can think of that i truly dislike.
I enjoy it because it has a bit more predictable loop generation than the others and I enjoy stealth builds for killer, while dabbling in Object of Obsession builds for survivor. It's the only map I load into and think "Well this will be a nice break for my brain" because I won't need to identify what each loop generated as.
Which is why I don't know why I dislike Lery's because it kind of has the same situation, but maybe it's because it all looks the same outside the office and TV room? I can't put my finger on it.
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RPD is one of my favorites on both sides.
Though I'm not a big fan of Lery's, oddly enough.
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Pretty much.
When I play survivor one of my builds is a commodious+charge addons with Built to Last, Stake Out, Hyperfocus and Streetwise. Can swap streetwise with other things like Resilience, Deja Vu, or Prove Thyself and I can hammer out half the gens efficiently even in SoloQ with teammates dropping like flies left and right. Doesn't guarantee a win but if I'm doing half the objectives by myself, not counting what the others are doing, in the time it takes the killer to get 2-3 hooks something is off.
It's even worse if I play with friends who know what they're doing. Gen efficiency can be extremely quick against most of the killers who have no means to get around quickly or rely on quick downs.
Problem is I'm not sure how they'd fix it at this point. Personally I'd like them to revisit toolboxes like they did medkits (aside buffing sabotage…) and put caps on progression/regression so gen progress can't get put in these situations.
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@MoNosEmpire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3729210#Comment_3729210
The aforementioned changes would 100% help reduce the early DC rage quitting.
Matches nowadays feel very oppressive and it makes survivors want to just leave as soon as possible, there's a repetitive pattern when someone is on the hook and no one comes for them they are just given one life left, so instead of waiting for it to happen, they decide to quit out of frustration of no one coming to unhook. My change above was just a rough guideline, it would defo need tuning.
It feels more like it rewards players for staying in the match rather than the ones who give up immediately though. I'm not arguing it won't work in some cases and isn't a comeback mechanic for those sticking to it, but for the vast majority of survivors who give up on hook immediately they won't stay in the match that long.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3729083#Comment_3729083
The better question to ask is, why are we looking to nerf or change anything when the answer is to look up or down?
Have we really hit bedrock of skill floor that this is too complicated for people to pull off?
My point is being misread here, it's not about the counterplay or anything like that. Double blinds have no real reason to exist, they don't hinder most killers tracking, and it's really just a visual annoyance more than anything. Wouldn't it be better for flashlights in general to receive a considerable buff in exchange for losing something that's minor like this?