ChaosWam
ChaosWam
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- ChaosWam
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@MoNosEmpire said:
Maybe the solution is very simple and everyone here is overlooking it.
Everyone wants the DC'ing to stop and give survivors hope even when the game is lost right?
So maybe the solution is to give one random survivor a 100% chance to escape a hook or get off of the floor once all survivors are downed when there are still 4-5 gens left. There could be more pre-requisites of course but I think it's best if the dev's keep this info hidden from the player base to give players this supposed "hope" to stay in the game and hope it's them who gets a chance to bring the game back.
It would even make for fun content for streamers who save the game.
Now for the flip side, why do killers DC? Main issue is gens being done too fast, so the answer would be to force the game to not allow survivors to do 4 gens up until a certain amount of time has surpassed, if it is reached, gens are locked by the entity for X amount of seconds until this time has elapsed, giving the killer a chance to compete, making the mid game interesting and full of chases and making survivors choose other perks and not just 4 gen rush perks.
The problem is specifically this:
So maybe the solution is to give one random survivor a 100% chance to
escape a hook or get off of the floor once all survivors are downed when
there are still 4-5 gens leftMost survivor's giving up on hook, aren't doing it before someone else is downed. It's as soon as they're slapped on a hook. I've had it at 5 gens, I've had it at 3 gens, doesn't matter. They give up for various reasons too. My personal experiences on both sides has been:
- Going down first in the match
- Going down too fast
- Playing against a killer or perk they disliike
- Fellow survivors aren't doing what they expect/demand of them
- Simply throwing matches
- Attempting to lower their MMR
- Making a misplay and deciding to be done
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As long as adept challenges exist, I think it's fair to do.
Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose is the way I see it.
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Not exactly sure you can fully fix it.
I'm all for adding ways to stop throwing on first hook, even if it means getting rid of the 4% and delegating that to slippery meat or something, but survivors will just go afk or something instead, or just not participate in the match at all.
Which is really sad to me, because I've been grinding survivor for months now and I'm doing well against killers the community seems to DC/Throw against like Skull Merchant, Knight and even Nurse from time to time. I'd love for these players to at least try to play against the things they dislike, I still dislike going against Wraith personally, but I'm not going to throw and mess up my teammate's chances of escape either.
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My experience with it is as follows
- Don't farm and play normally, survivors who bring BPs complain at endgame
- I bring BP's and goof off, I get survivors being tryhards, trolls, and extremely toxic at endgame for the next 10 matches
- I go back to playing normally
- Please return to the top of this list and repeat
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I mean, I'll be in the very small minority that likes the back and forth with the drones and deciding which ones need to be disabled and which need to stay up just to do gens.
I do think some things can be tuned here and there, not a fan of haste and hindered both being in her kit as well as survivors having no real way to remove lock-on stacks, but otherwise I've had decent wins and losses against them when nobody else DC's.
Her lore is still my least favorite though. I don't know how you'd fix that.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3729034#Comment_3729034
Pretty much every animation lock is 3 seconds or less (kicking gens, pallets, etc.). Or even blade wiping, which you can actively look away while the animation is playing.
The first blind is due to animation lock, sure.
Any additional blinds are purely on the killer player not looking away as soon as they're blind the first time. You're never 'forced' to eat more than one blind unless you're playing with your feet.
Flashlight saves have enough time to get the double blind, I know that very well.
Also, you have to account for addons/strong flashlights that increase blind speeds. I know for a fact I've gotten double blinded after going for a *pallet break as well if the first blind starts at the first frame, orange glyphs making it a guarantee, with the second blind coming at the very end of the animation before I can control my movements. Unless that's something dubious, I'm going to assume it's a possibility since I run into it enough.
*Changed from stun to break, don't know what I was thinking there.
Also, I am curious, why are we defending double blinds anyway? They have no real practicality for survivors since killer can look away in most cases to avoid it, and it's not like it saves you much time against killers who know where to path when blinded. I'd much rather have the blind duration increase and put in a soft invuln timer between blinds, and possibly add a buff (an addon buff?) that removes scratch marks from showing up during the blind duration or something. That seems like a reasonable exchange to me.
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I would LOVE to run no slowdowns in normal matches, but I actually find RPD to be the most manageable in terms of gen defense than other maps, especially the large maps. Gens fly like crazy when fully optimized on a level playing field, and I can slam them out with my usual build in normal matches pretty quickly. Only issue is if other survivors can loop.
In Chaos Shuffle though, it's highlighted that if survivors are halfway decent, gens are manageable and killers should have at least 1 slowdown. I love the mode, don't get me wrong I think it's the best thing to come out for DBD in ages, but the problems with the game are highlighted on both sides and explains why there's a meta in normal matches.
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@Caiman said:
Can survivors still phase through the killer during pick-up? If so, there's nothing you can do, and there won't be anything until BHVR changes that.
It's still happening to me at walls.
The others here trying to give advice are in the right place, but are forgetting because of BGP+FB combo they can just phase right through and get the blind regardless.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3728822#Comment_3728822
So you would buff Flashlight Add Ons, because some players are not able to look up or down when getting blinded?
And I thought people want to balance for the Top…
When you're locked in animation and forced to eat the double blind, you can't?
And why not buff flashlight addons as an exchange?
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I'd gladly have flashlight addons have a small blind timer increase in exchange for chain-blinds to be removed.
Not particularly because of it being useful or anything, but being double blinded can get visually annoying.
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I've been noticing it from time to time, even watching survivors as it happens.
No walking, no perks that effect scratch marks, yet there will be gaps and inconsistencies here and there.
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I say they shouldn't for two reasons
- Sabotage would be more important and could have better uses. Good sabo squads already can abuse certain hook placements, so it reasons that a hook being spent on a death that will otherwise become a deadzone can still be sabo'd and incentivize trying to run something like that. It also makes buffing sabo more reasonable.
- Better reason to revisit hook spawn logic. It's always bugged me sometimes up to 4 hooks will spawn within 10-15 meters of each other but then corners will have 1 solitary hook, if a hook spawns there at all.
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Another body for the killer to go after, even for a moment.
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Ghostface usually gets a jolt out of me from time to time.
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@VampireHimbo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3727172#Comment_3727172
Well crying about Nurse and pretending the other Killers have it bad is very dishonest considering there are winstrekas of 800 Oni wins, 300 Onryo wins, 2000 blight wins, 500 clown wins, etc.
Meanwhile the highest winstreak for Solo Q is 34 escapes in a row. Solo. And those wins happened thanks to hatch + key + old dead hard.
It's ok to admit the game is killer sided. We don't want retribution or anything like that, so nobody's gonna hurt you. normal players just want balance.
Citing winstreaks like it's a reasonable thing to balance around is mind boggling.
Also, yes, I do think SoloQ needs help. But so do the low tier killers. Both can be true. Problem is SoloQ is going to always have bad players. Killer only has themselves to rely on. It's why killer's can do winstreaks but SoloQ can't. You can give SoloQ endless buffs but you'll always have bad teammates who throw, and then have survivors who can decimate the low tiers with ease with every tool they're given.
Something we tend to overlook is SoloQ has potential to be nearly as good as SWF. I've had SoloQ games that worked out flawlessly because we coordinated without needing coms because I'd get lucky enough to land 3 other useful teammates. You get one bad teammate who throws early game and boom, another point for the Nurse's winstreak.
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RPD is my favorite map on both sides. This has been great for me, and useful psychological warfare for others.
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No thanks, don't need survivors DCing more.
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I don't think it should reach into the basement. Basement should be a stronger hook situation than the others, and therefore have that advantage over the other hooks.
But I will say reassurance should have a slightly wider activation range, not a taller one. Unsure if BHVR can pull that off though.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/415390/michael-myers-rework
Why would you ever run tombstone when it does basically the same thing as an ebony mori? Without the negative aspect of needing to stalk for longer?
I would also make it so that stalk starts regenerating before running completely dry or at a reduced rate after being empty.
I will defend that change to tombstone for only one reason: They are planning to introduce the last survivor Mori system in the future. So Myers having a replacement for an ebony mori would kinda track. It would make a lot of sense to go that direction with tombstone once that is in place.
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On one hand, I'd actually be okay with this. If there's a variety of people sharing their opinions and balance philosophy then a possible decent outcome can come from it.
On the other hand, this is DBD. I reckon they won't listen to half of the suggestions and the other half will be a lot of survivor/killer main arguments.
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I'd certainly like it if the new engine could handle it.
Not only would it be nice to catch hacking players, but also just to review my own plays and see where I can improve.
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Subjective opinion.
I for one enjoy it, especially when the killer makes it the focus of their slowdown as opposed to the usual Pop/Pain Res.
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Turn it into the exam minigame from Yakuza LAD.
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@bloodyknife said:
I didn't know generators had legs.
I've been trying to tell y'all this for months, it's impossible to catch up to those grease buckets when they run so fast. No wonder killers use Grim Embrace/Pain Res. 😤
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@Junylar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3727172#Comment_3727172
The difference between the 4 slowdown nurse with meta addons and a perkless addonless trapper is similar to the difference between SWF and soloQ, if not lower. So it works both ways.
A SoloQ team could absolutely decimate a perkless, addonless trapper.
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The problem is one I continue to echo over and over: Killers are too varied in power and the stats we get are due to top tier killers doing well, low tier killers scraping by, and a looooooooooooooooooooooooot of getting out of the game off first hook.
Anyone who does a generalized sweeping opinion of killers linking them to killrates without mentioning that not every killer is Nurse, I tend to ignore because it's generalizing one of the bigger issues of the game. You make a sweeping nerf of all killers and the low tiers suffer while the high tiers kinda shrug it off.
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I think this game and R6 Siege may have had the worst in-game communities I've seen, with Siege being slightly more because of voice chat. I've met some really nice players here, don't get me wrong, but a majority of players are always ready to flame if you say ANYTHING at endgame chat. And I'd blame the 4v1 aspect, sadly. There's always going to be a group of survivors flaming the killer for anything they do, ganging up on them for the most part. Heck, they'll even turn on a teammate if they didn't play perfectly.
I've had many times, as killer and survivor, having to defend the other side or a specific person because a SWF started flaming them for x and y, when I witnessed otherwise.
"Feng just hid all game and opened chests" No, I chased and hooked them, twice off gens from what I saw and they probably tried to heal themselves.
"Trash Bubba tunneled me" No, I unhooked you and despite him being right there and focusing me at first, you immediately went to the gen behind him and caught his attention as I took a vault.
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I think Artist.
I always see people complain about her anti-loop and how she can 'put you in a lose/lose', which she can do but I feel is very specific, but you can easily just go to the next loop most of the time when you hear her charging, her birds don't do damage if they need to go through a wall of any kind, and the damage is still a limited range. All she does is punish being too greedy with loops.
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I actually have pretty good matches against them these days.
Very unpopular thing to say I know.
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It's kinda the same for me honestly, just less needing to stress as killer.
It does highlight optimizing gens is still superior, and survivors not touching gens is still a problem.
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If I ask survivors anything I get a stream of toxicity and complaints, even if it's a nonsense question.
Honestly I'm close to giving up on endgame chat if not for the rare decent folk.
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I'm not a fan of it, especially before the MFT nerf.
Thankfully more of it has restrictions/conditions but I don't believe maps are designed with unrestricted haste in mind half the time.
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No thanks I'll stick to DBD.
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I know what you mean. I've been enjoying getting interesting builds but some limitations feel so unrewarding.
Some perks do deserve their limitations, but others… Oppression and Potential Energy come to mind for two that can either get some love or may possible be a problem if buffed.
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@vBlossom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3725914#Comment_3725914
Survivors who are good have adapted
Then it's your turn bestie
Auras: Lockers. They've been in the game VERY long.
aight lemme go to the locker just in case killer has perk
Tunneling: Basekit BT
Alexa set timer to 5 seconds
Brother I play both roles with Sadako/Yoichi as my mains, I adapted far better than you'd think on both sides.
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@vBlossom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3725892#Comment_3725892
if you think just bringing flashbang should allow you to get free save in somewhat entitled.
As I wrote above:
If you bring Flashbang, do 50% of gen, craft it inside locker, then, be nearby downed survivor and timeout flashbang correctly, you deserve to save someone.
I didn't write "just Flashbang should allow to get free save!!!!!"
The killer already had to spend time to chase and down the survivor, had to use mind games, to use the power correctly
And patch after patch it's only easier and easier?
Because one side has or had uncounterable things doesn’t make it right for the other.
This game is 8 years old and there is yet no basekit resolution to camping, tunneling or revealing aura.
If you bring Flashbang, do 50% of gen, craft it inside locker, then, be
nearby downed survivor and timeout flashbang correctly, you deserve to
save someone.By that logic, killers deserve the hook since they need to start a chase, win mindgames, avoid pallet stuns, avoid bodyblocks, avoid flashlight blinds, and reach a hook that hasn't been sabotaged. Heck, even half of that amounts to the work put in to a flashbang.
And patch after patch it's only easier and easier?
Not really. Survivors who are good have adapted to loops and generators very efficiently. It's usually only a stomp when survivors give up, most of my survivor matches I lose is due to my teammates for a number of reasons. I barely can blame the killer at some points.
This game is 8 years old and there is yet no basekit resolution to camping, tunneling or revealing aura.
Auras: Lockers. They've been in the game VERY long.
Tunneling: Basekit BT was added, and heck, I also agree tunneling may need more but it's a difficult situation to balance. Sometimes the killer has to tunnel late game for pressure. Other times they have no reason to. And with perks like OTR and DS, it's becoming harder to justify a way to balance it and is why I say perks shouldn't be a band-aid on problems inherent to the game.
Camping: We have the anti-facecamp. It's gotten rid of the worst of camping and you know it. What you're mad about is patrolling hook and objectives, something most survivors are terrified of taking a hit over even if it's just an M1 killer, and even if it means the survivor on hook dies with no attempts. I can agree with insta-down powers it's a bit of a problem and could possibly need some tuning or a 'anti-exposed' mechanic or something that's reasonably balanced, but for the most part I don't see true camping anymore.
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It's very nice to see the community enjoy this modifier enough for BHVR to extend it. Personally, I'm enjoying addon-less M1 only Knight in this mode, so I'll probably keep doing that.
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#9 speaks to me on a personal level, preach it
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I'm still in the belief perks should be gameplay enhancing or create new challenges, not a requirement for base game issues. I can't say I know the best way to fix every base game issue everyone has, but having to possibly purchase a license or wait out the shop for the right perk to be able to counter problems everyone faces is pretty bad.
And this goes both both roles.
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I'd rather avoid another MFT situation on either side.
Personally I don't think haste outside exhaustion perks is a good idea in general with how maps are balanced. If there needs to be haste, it needs to have drawbacks or mechanics in place to not make it too easy to use. Batteries Included is a decent example, losing gens and gaining haste in a small area where it's most likely a deadzone for killers to even patrol and punish survivors slightly for taking chases to them away from other gens and useful for endgame.
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Unsure if they'd dedicate chapters to these, I'd bet they'd make them skins though.
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@RaSavage42 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3724903#Comment_3724903
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3724911#Comment_3724911
It was also a thing in the lights out (minus the perks part)
And while it shouldn't be one Survivor doing all of the Gens… having all 4 Survivors doing Gens is also a bad thing (in a way)
But with the way Gens are right now… adding in more steps for Survivors will only make things worse
Adding in Perks like Corrupt, Deadlock and Grim Embrace (and to a lesser extent Thrilling Tremors)
Honestly a soft basekit Corrupt is the only thing I can think that could help ease it a bit, but even then how do you justify it when killers like Nurse and Blight exist? They get downs far too efficiently and are usually the best counter to gen optimization already.
But yes, out of all our options that may be the best because of the killer power differences.
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@rysm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3724894#Comment_3724894
Like you said, they were previously 80 secs and atm the gens are flying. If anything the modifier highlighted how shockingly fast the gens can be done when killers don't have the usual regression perks. In nearly every one of my survivor modifier matchs the killer was overwhelmed by the gen progress, in my killer modifier mates they were going insanely fast. On the survivor side it was refreshing to not have your progress "erased" but on the killer side it felt awful to feel powerless against the speedy gens. There needs to be a fundamental balance here.
I do think there needs to be a fundamental look at survivor gen progression and regression perks. The OPs idea sounds very interesting and personally i'd love to try it. Complete gen rework.Gen rework or not, I agree with this sentiment. I always tried to play fun builds without relying on too much slowdown and gen progression can be optimized far too efficiently. Chaos Shuffle has just highlighted what I've been trying to say for a long time about it.
Even in my survivor games I can do over half the overall gen progress by myself with Stake Out/Hyperfocus against most low tier killers, even worse if I add a commodius+charge addons and Streetwise/Built to Last. With 4 survivors and a lot of resources, that shouldn't be a thing that 1 survivor has the ability to do reliably.
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My usual complaints are 'Deathslingers are all mean' even though I play him like everyone else I play, but this is a new one I haven't seen yet.
I don't even know how you can convince them unless they play 'Slinger themselves.
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What I don't understand is why toolboxes aren't getting a similar treatment to medkits.
Not as severe, but just make them better in ascending order and equalize the branching toolboxes to their respected function. I mean, commodious is still going to be the toolbox of choice anyway so what's the point?
Not to mention all of the slugging this will bring about. Yet another slap to the face to M1 killers.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3724471#Comment_3724471
"Just pick up at walls" is currently bugged, because survivors can clip through the killer, and drop the flashbang while overlapping with the killer, which works even if the killer is facing a wall.
Good to know it's a bug then, I was going nuts after 10 straight games of it.
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I know most will say otherwise but this is why I've started running lightborn once background player became popular with flashbangs.
The 'just pick up at walls' crowd doesn't know the struggle of doing so and still getting denied because the flashbang radius is either bugged or intentionally messed up enough to get blinds at walls. I'd rather play a match risking it with just 3 perks getting value than deal with it at this point.
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Not so much SWF I think, I'm more concerned with how optimized repair speeds can be and need to be looked into.
We also have to account for the difference in killer skill ceilings and power gaps they have between each other.
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My main, my first P100, my favorite killer despite the drastic changes over the years. Love playing as and against em'.
Does need some adjustments though, the lullaby having directional audio, her tapes being a bit too easy to deal with and her intermittency is bugged and doesn't match what the killer sees vs what the survivors see by roughly a second, but ignoring those she makes up for being an M1 killer by having a passive slowdown via her tapes.
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I too have been enjoying the Chaos Shuffle.