ChaosWam
ChaosWam
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Yesterday and the day before I had a streak of toxic survivors when I decided to play Trapper, Doctor and Unknown because I wanted to practice them more.
- "It was a 3v1 because Feng didn't do anything + ur build is bad I escaped" The Feng was on gens and being chased.
- Told to ######## after playing Trapper and losing, a killer I barely touch. You can imagine how they acted in the match.
- Asked how a survivor did xyz because I was curious, proceeds to insult me and my build instead of answering my question, admits to using haste cheats when I didn't even ask. (Probably just to further insult me but at this point I mentally checked out)
- An entire swf spamming "ZZZZ" after a match of Insidious Unknown, which I had won.
- Almost every match having multiple survivors tbag at exit gates and spam ggez aside the examples above, regardless of the outcome.
Every time a new PTB comes out or a new chapter arrives, it seems to draw these players out. I don't even see this kinda BM on rank resets. But I will share one interesting match as Trapper running double Iridescents.
- Entire SWF consisted of Head On, Decisive, Flashbang, Resilience and flashlights with one survivor running Prove Thyself, Boon: Exponential, Buckle Up and For The People (I think, I can't remember if the others mixed on BU+FTP as well but you get the idea) And they sent me to Dead Dawg.
- I fall for a few locker baits trying to grab survivors at first, slowly realizing this team. I do notice later that they only popped one gen, while other gens sat at 50% so I start trapping lockers while they attempted to follow me and disable the traps.
- Manage to finally kill all of them, last 2 had to be bled out because they ran to a corner with no hooks left. Still 4 gens.
Now what is really interesting is they weren't toxic at all at endgame. They made 25k BP each just from spamming head on and flashlight blinds at pallets/chase times. I even got complimented despite needing to bleed two out, they were more content with their bloodpoint gain than losing. This is what I'd like to see more of, because these survivors weren't pushovers and could absolutely have demolished me and be smug about it.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3723322#Comment_3723322
It's fine to call proxy camping proxy camping in my opinion. No matter what we call it though, fact is it's not fun to go against, as it has almost the same effects as hard camping.
And yes, normal camping is still possible, you just can't stand as close to the hooked survivor anymore, but that doesn't change much.
It's an anti-facecamp mechanic, and that's it. It doesn't really do anything against normal camping. I don't see camping that often either, but when it happens, it's extremely annoying and frustrating to go against.
Patrolling a hook is DEFINITELY not the same as facecamping, except in the case of insta-down mechanics.
More than half the time it's still possible to get the unhook and run to a safe loop.
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The last few days I've been dealing with similar things.
One group claimed I tunneled when I went out of my way to avoid it until endgame and I only got the one kill. I also didn't run any regression (playing Insidious Unknown for the jumpscares with lightborn, Plaything and Corrupt) and another group that I 4k'd complained gens were blocked too long and I should 'learn a better loadout.'
Normally I get one or two bad actors a week but I can recount more stories this past few days than I can weeks prior. Even had to make a report on one going way too far in the chat saying things I should not repeat.
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I'm on the fence.
On one hand, Mori's are useful if survivors run to areas with no hooks and are on death hook/last survivor.
On the other hand, the possibility for more Mori's to be sold and a cool finish to a 4k is pretty nice.
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My main is Sadako and I think she should have 1 TV and a well to hide in until the match ends.
And a Mac10 submachine gun. -
I hit P100 on my Sadako the other day and decided to pick him up again.
Getting used to his shots has been trickier than I thought but I do love the Insidious mindgames.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3723115#Comment_3723115
You can still camp and proxy camp, the anti-face camp mechanic only helps against actual facecamping, and that's it.
Can't really camp until endgame, and when that happens then securing a kill is your objective and all bets are off.
Proxy camping, as I said before, shouldn't be called that. I see people claim proxy camp when a killer hooks and then searches the area. Other survivors should be doing gens until a new chase starts or someone manages the unhook.
Ever since the anti-facecamp, I've seen far less:
- Basement Bubba
- Basement Trapper (To a degree, a well trapped killer shack is going to still be tough but Trapper needs an edge I guess)
- Wraith cloaking near a hook
- Facecamping in general before endgame
What I have seen more of is:
- High mobility killers not losing much ground compared to M1's (as usual)
- Survivors unhooking in the killer's face or right as they're about to leave
- Killers choosing the injured survivor over the healthy one in most cases (tunneling, as per usual)
- Higher use in slowdown/regression
- Survivors deciding not to trade hook states (debatable and depends on the killer, instadowners are tricky to play around if they stay in the area)
I'm sure there's more if I think harder but off the top of my head, yes, there's been far, FAR less actual camping and new problems people have become attached to like proxy 'camping' when really it's holding a position around the hook which isn't a perfect scenario for every killer.
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I still think all these modifiers should be a permanent addition to custom lobbies at the very least.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3723115#Comment_3723115
It's called proxy camping.
Because you're near the hook waiting. Attempting to change the sematics doesn't do anything but make it seem disingenuous.
The whole reason I bring up the 'anti FACE camping' wording is because that is specifically used to claim that the devs are ok with proxy camping. And it happens every single time someone ever refers to 'camping' in general since that patch.
And yet, any time a killer is accused of it in my survivor matches, they aren't actually camping and are checking gens/lockers/totems/etc nearby hook. So calling it camping is a little weird.
I can recall maybe 2-3 killers my past week of playing who attempt staying near the hook and they usually lose 3 gens by the time I'm saved or died. I guess I just don't mind dying if the others manage to escape.
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@TatsuiChiyo said:
While I agree with OP, tunneling is actually a bit more complicated of an issue to fix. Lot of people will rage and scream at that but its true. Way I figure, there are 3 reasons Killers tunnel.
- They want to. Maybe its malicous and wanting to ruin someone's day. Maybe they are doing it for a meme, Lore Accurate Nemesis for example. Whatever the reason, the player themselves is going into the match knowing they will be going after a particular player for a reason.
- It's the best play. They may be losing gens due to bad calls or bad plays, they may have tried playing "fair" and couldn't snowball. Maybe they hooked a player, turned around only for a Survivor to immediately unhook them before the Killer could even step away, so now they want to punish the bad play. Plenty of reasons actually for tunneling to be the best option at that moment.
- The tunneling is accidental, which yes does happen. I'm talking the unhooked Survivor runs away and rounds the corner into the Killer, or the Killer goes to the hook and sees scratch marks going in two different directions and just so happens to pick the unhooked Survivor. In those instances, the Killer than makes the smart move and just downs the injured Survivor in front of them.
Now the question is, how do the devs fox any of these issues? The first point you can't really fix as players will do what they want. Base BT, less points, even game loss doesn't faze them. The 2nd points is what the devs acknowledge and do support, sometimes that is the best play and Killers should be able to make it to win. And third point again just...happens, so you cant really do much.
Obviously tunneling is more of a complicated issue than even what I put, but its not the black and white issue so many players try to make it.
I can feel #2 really hard as someone trying to not run slowdown on weaker killers and still get complaints…
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Eh.
I've met a lot of very nice SM players. I tend to be nice to them when most of the lobby DC's and they are pretty nice back for the most part, unless they want the match to end or practice chases on a living target.
Honestly, I like going against them more than Wraiths.
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The only thing I ask is it doesn't reveal to the survivor's it's active until 1 hook so they don't see the hex notification off the bat.
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@Wiccamanplays said:
Something I've not seen mentioned so far with all this is is map balance. Some maps have atrocious hook spawns, and sometimes it's impossible for Killers to hook Survivors in some places even without any being sabotaged.
And of course this change will affect weaker killers far more than strong ones. Wiggle off from a Nurse or a Blight? You get maybe 5 seconds before they just down you again. Wiggle off from a Trapper or Myers? He might never catch you again.
I absolutely agree with this take and it feels like a lot of survivor-leaning players either forget or ignore the killer power nuances and map design hiccups. Same can be said for why a lot of killers feel the need to run multiple slowdowns, regressions, tunnel and proxy patrol hooks just to have a chance against sub-optimal to optimized survivors. The sabo buffs are just going to effect lower tiered and M1 killers and maybe be an annoyance to the higher tiers at best.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3722967#Comment_3722967
Since this comes up every. Single. Time. this mechanic is discussed in any way, people need to take their own pill here:
Camping isn't fixed. People are very clear that it's anti FACE camping.
@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3722967#Comment_3722967
Camping wasn't fixed, how was it fixed?
Proxy patrolling isn't camping.
And if they return to hook and chase you, that's tunneling.
Otherwise, standing there near the hook has dramatically died down since the anti-facecamp. I play enough survivor to know this.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3722967#Comment_3722967
Its common sense for survivors to spread up and do gens seperately. This however leads to the killer consistently loosing 3 gens in 90 seconds.
This is not good and leads to the killer tying to win in toher ways than getting many hooks.
However, just fixing this problem will result in chaos because one has to ask: what happens when a killer starts to tunnel / camp when a slowdown mechanic is in place?
Both problems have to dealt with in one go.
I'm saying if the gen speeds were fixed, they could have a reason to fix tunneling.
As it stands now, if they remove tunneling as well, what are the worst of the roster going to do against a fully optimized team?
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Honestly, I think it depends on the killer. Mobility and ranged killers have it easier than others, they can reliably down quickly compared to base M1 killers or those with really telegraphed powers.
That said, after toying with gen speed builds myself, the optimization of survivor perks needs addressed. There's a good reason why killers run regression, and Chaos Shuffle doesn't highlight that much outside toolboxes.
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I just feel bad for all the M1 killers constantly getting L's with these updates and to those who don't even receive buffs to compensate.
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Well camping was fixed already, so there's one down.
Can we also address gen speed optimization from being so insanely fast, survivor BM and killer power disparity while we're asking for things like this?
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3704957#Comment_3704957
It’s funny how you wrote this and it became a power for Vecna!!🤣
It would be neat. I definitely still have my frustrations with her and I hope Bhvr will just tweak a few small things on her. She’s nearly there.
The directional lullaby is still killing any and all stealth I am trying to incorporate.
My foresight scares me sometimes and Vecna may be one I dedicate some time to now that I got to P100 on Sadako as well.
The lullaby being directional is absolutely a slap to the face too, that and apparently when I perused the bug section some have found out her demanifest intermittence on killer side isn't matching what is seen by survivors in third person, so mindgames aren't working correctly either.
Fun times as a Sadako main.
Edit: Referring to this video made a month ago by JCGlitchmaster:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvIkoeBKnBk -
Instead of skillchecks, have a Trauma Center minigame.
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Extra points if it's a Nic Cage.
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No thanks, I've watched videos on it and it seems like a nightmare to go against. I'm happy with the current hatch mechanic.
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I haven't noticed a change in sweaty playstyles for awhile now.
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@Hermit said:
"...off the record, into the ds, into the dh"
Seems like anti-tunnel perks are still working 😁
This is the only one I'll give them credit for. M1 killers mainly suffer from off-the-hook bodyblockers running this combo. I've ran it myself to a lot of success.
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@CountOfTheFog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717325#Comment_3717325
They never said it was going to be reverted, people just assumed it would be because of the reason it was buffed.
Patch 7.0.0:
The wording of 'need more options at their disposal right now' kinda allows us to assume, yes, it was a temporary fix.
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I actually hate running it because it makes me double guess myself on loop chaining. Maybe because I learned without it?
As for other perks, Alert and Troubleshooter combo'd is actually insanely good for chases. If the killer tries to play a loop after pre-throwing, you see them. If they break it, you see them.
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@vBlossom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717399#Comment_3717399
Apply your numbers to an active match against half of the lower roster. The killer still needs to chase other survivors, secure the down, hook, and make it to your gen. You're too focused on the 7 second shave to see it goes from 53 to 46 with just a few perks and not adding toolboxes to the mix. Every second counts when you have 4 active survivors.
I kinda don't see this issue and based on the forums/killrate, pickrate of said perks it's almost non-existing tbh
If you can loop the killer and hit great skillchecks quite often that means you are in higher MMR and so do killer you are versing, so they should adapt and improve their skills. And if someone is in high MMR then if they pick weaker killer they have to assume that games would be harder.
I don't know why dbd should be balanced around players that could often hit greats, can loop the killer for several gens and are kind of "veterans".
Except half the time, the killers ARE doing what they should. I recognize this in my matches, I'm not going against baby killers or killers who don't rotate their gens like they should. The problem is, by myself with these builds, I can progress it much faster than they can reliably regress it even with the pop/pain res combo at times because, unless they're killers like Blight and Nurse, they still need to get to the gen with whatever movement speed they have.
Which is where I have a problem with Deja Vu. It's free information on the problematic gens and snowballs speed to the last 3. By itself the speed isn't going to be a game breaker but it's absolutely being used for gen optimization more and more.
As for the killrates, it worries me that it's a possibility that gen speeds are a major contribution to escape rates and isn't being addressed while other aspects are being buffed (like how they tried to buff huntress before) and will create a weird balance issue down the line.
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@MaddieMage said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717391#Comment_3717391
Yes but in this scenario you are running an entire gen speed build meant to do gens quickly. That also leaves you open to vulnerabilities elsewhere like healing, being seen by aura reading perks from the killer and no exhaustion perks for chase.
We can say “but what about all 4 players running those?! But the stats have shown time and again that that o ly ever happens in higher MMR swfs which are not the norm in this game. Those situations are not common whatsoever. 4 man solo Q survivors are not coordinating like this.
It's a good thing I didn't make that argument since I can reliably pop gens with this build by myself. I get games where I manage to do 4 gens worth of work by myself if I get good at the great skill checks. If I get chased, I rely on strong loops and wasting as much time as possible for the others.
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@vBlossom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717391#Comment_3717391
Stacking Deja Vu and Prove will still be a dramatic increase.
No, it wouldn't.
Without: 90/(0.85*2) → ~53 seconds for gen
With: 90/((0.935+0.051)*2) → ~45,6 seconds for gen ~7 seconds saved per gen best case scenario
just 2 survivors alone can complete a gen in 52.94 seconds without perks
Yes, but they need to actually COMPLETE that gen and in this meta with constant PR into POP it's not a great idea to focus on one gen, but to split on two gens (it always was best idea to split and not do gens together btw).
Just let's think about it.
It's better to have two gens done for 35% than one with 60% progress, because when killer approaches said gen, two survivors are ambushed and have to run away instead of one.
With Streetwise + Built to Last + Hyperfocus + Stake Out. Okay, it's strong build, but you don't have any perk that gives you second chance, exhaustion perk, distortion etc. - something for something
Apply your numbers to an active match against half of the lower roster. The killer still needs to chase other survivors, secure the down, hook, and make it to your gen. You're too focused on the 7 second shave to see it goes from 53 to 46 with just a few perks and not adding toolboxes to the mix. Every second counts when you have 4 active survivors.
And yes, I don't have a second chance perk. But if I run this build and my fellow survivors run one deja vu/prove and ways to keep themselves alive, I can manage to get them out roughly 70% of the time depending on the killer even if they run Pain Res/Pop.
And really, I wouldn't have a problem with these things if gen progression itself had a hard cap on how fast they can be repaired/regressed. It's the biggest problem in my eyes.
Also can you address what I said two times already about Deja Vu being a huge assist to snowballing gens when the first few gens can be popped within the first chase due to strong toolboxes/perks/addons?
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@vBlossom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717371#Comment_3717371
If 2 people focus on one gen they have -15% penalty to charges, also this is not optimal playstyle, because that gen would 100% be hit by PainRes.
Other gen perks aren't good:
Overzealous require finding totem (wasting time, limited resources), breaking it (wasting time, again) and it's effect is mitigated when you lose health state.
Resilience puts you in unfavourable state as you have to be injured and you are insta-down.
Thalita perk is kinda bad, because it gives you something like-Deja Vu, for very limited time and when you go to another gen you can have no value at all.
But let's count that 2 people do one gen with Deja Vu, Resilience, Overzealous and Prove:
0.935cps each + 0.051cps from Deja Vu + 0.0765cps from Resilience + 0.085cps from Overzealous = 1.1475 * 2 = 2.295 cps for 2 survivors → ~40 seconds per gen.
Normal gen time for 2 survivors is ~53 seconds.
So yes, it's substantial difference -13 seconds from each genBUT…
Two survivors need to find dull totem, break it, be injured, go to gen marked on red and do it while being uninterrupted the whole time.
I don't know what is killer doing to allow this whole mumbo-jumbo to work, but you also need to see that those survivors don't have empty slot for Exhaustion perk, Distortion, DS, Off the Record or Windows of Opportunity, so are MUCH more vulnerable in chase or to tunneling.Even with the efficiency penalty, just 2 survivors alone can complete a gen in 52.94 seconds without perks. Stacking Deja Vu and Prove will still be a dramatic increase.
And why are we talking about every other progression perk than the ones I said? I also see a lack of Streetwise/Built To Last being mentioned as I combo those into Hyperfocus/Stake Out and do a gen by myself extremely fast.
But to keep this on the topic of Deja Vu, there's still the problem it's a massive snowball perk that only becomes better the less gens there are, ESPECIALLY if you break the 3 gen.
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The downplaying here is unreal.
And to those focusing on one survivor doing a gen with just Deja Vu, you're forgetting that it stacks with other survivors, other gen perks, toolboxes and benefits greatly from another survivor knowing how to loop halfway decently.
I'm speaking from experience here, running it in my Hyperfocus/Stake Out builds at times. It's an absolute snowball perk too, because the last 3 gens are guaranteed to be a speed boost even if they're completely spread out.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717101#Comment_3717101
I think the point they were trying to make is that the perks were too strong relative to the ease of activation, not that they were simply easy to activate and thus got nerfed. I don't know if it's a French to English translation thing or what, but BHVR tends to have a hard time when it comes to explaining its thought process in a coherent way.
That's a great way of looking at it, however, let's not forget the changes to addons like Billy's up to Adrenaline for similar reasons.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717048#Comment_3717048
Killer and survivor aren't the same game mode and shouldn't be judged by the same gameplay standards. It's comparing apples to oranges. Not everything in DbD has an equivalent between both roles.
That's not the point I'm trying to make either. The point is nerfing things because of 'ease' to activate is a problematic reason.
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@Yharwick said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717048#Comment_3717048
Alert/Troubleshooter/Urban Evasion - None of these are meta and UE is on the borderline of being a killer perk.
Distortion - I really really don't wanna have the distortion discussion in this thread because that will turn into it's own monster so the only thing I'll say it's a perk that has a chance to do nothing if the killer has no aura perks whereas pain/pop will get value every game.
Stakeout/Hyper - I've never used this and I've never really noticed it being used against me so I'm skeptical of it's power level but I can't really comment on it because I have no experience with it.
Built to Last/Streetwise w/ toolbox- This on the other hand I have a ton of experience with using and I don't think it directly compares to Pop/Pain because there's the devil edged sword of if you ever get caught in a locker with it that's a massive tempo loss so it does have a ton of risk attached to it not to mention I don't think I'd say going into a local as normal gameplay per se because going into a locker is so dangerous that taking the chase can be preferable instead a lot of the time. But I will concede it's extremely powerful when it does work if built to last worked only once instead of going 99/66/33 I don't think that would be unfair.
But again you seem to be missing the point with all these which is it's not just one thing of "playing the game and getting benefits" it's also power level. If we look at pop/pain it's two perks that are strong by themselves, do the same thing, and you don't have to go out of your way to use them. The closest survivor equivalent I can think of is prove/deja vu and is that too strong? Idk perhaps, tbh I think BHVR needs to avoid gen related perks entirely for both sides cuz it only ever causes trouble.
We aren't talking about power level though, we're basing this on the 'easy to activate' part. There's plenty other strong things in the game that are easy to activate and involve normal gameplay like Pain Res/Pop. Problem with this mindset is it's a slippery slope to weird and unneeded nerfs/changes to things further down the line that aren't that strong too.
We've seen BHVR try to change things in strange ways, like nerfing otherwise balanced addons while buffing things that make no sense to buff because they're already strong.
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@Yharwick said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3716933#Comment_3716933
Sprint Burst is a weird one cuz you have a little less control over it and you can actually be bad at using it if you just walk everywhere so it doesn't really compare to Pop or Pain Res which you can't really use wrong.
But sure we'll go with Lithe but here's the thing where Lithe deviates for Pop/Pain Res. You're not activating Lithe then going into balanced landing or dead hard. But you can absolutely Pain Res a gen and then go over and Pop it and it doesn't require you doing anything you wouldn't be doing anyway. It's not an issue of just powerful effects for playing the game it's an oversaturation of being able to get the same effect in a small time period just for playing the game.
Fair enough, then how about stuff like Alert/Troubleshooter for aura reading combinations, or Distortion/Urban Evasion for stealth, or my personal favorite do-nothing-and-benefit-greatly combo Stake Out/Hyperfocus so I barely worry about hitting great skill checks by playing the game near a TR.
Edit: I forgot to mention my other favorite one for toolboxes, Streetwise/Built to Last.
As to lower more bias toward survivor side, what of stacking aura reading? Lethal Pursuer with any other aura read is 'free x for playing the game' as well. And if we continue the idea that hooks is 'doing nothing' than my favorite combo of Nemesis/Furtive Chase is also just as 'free' as anything else.
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@Yharwick said:
Can we pretend there was some time cost to pop? YOU LITERALLY GET IT JUST BY PLAYING THE GAME. Stop pretending like putting survivors on hooks and checking gens wasn't what y'all weren't already doing.
Pop and Pain res were both guilty of this and while I don't think they're bad designs because having killers go on side quests isn't really something you can do with how little time they have it was clear they were too effective for what they did especially considering you could run them together. I think BHVR finally understands all anyone does is run 4 slowdowns and wanna temper how effective that is while buffing killer's basekits which is a choice I support but this is a transition that unfortunately is going to take a lot of time because you can't do this to killers en masse like you can to perks. I wouldn't be surprised to see more killer QoL and basekit buffs over the coming months while gen regression takes another hit or two.
We can't pretend it's just those perks that get value from 'literally' playing the game though. We can debate if they're too strong or not, but perks activate and deactivate from 'just playing the game' in general and opens up a can of worms in terms of balance justifications.
I had an example for We'll Make It doing this above, but what of perks like Sprint Burst and Lithe for more examples? Just simply holding shift and running activates them, regardless of the downtime much like how Pop/Pain Res' downtimes are between downs.
Or Windows of Oppertunity, a perk that highlights all untouched pallets/windows in a large radius simply from 'just playing the game.'
You see where I'm going with this?
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3716876#Comment_3716876
Like I said, I'm not weighing in here on whether or not Pop should be nerfed. That's a very different conversation.
I'm aware, just giving an example to your own example.
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@jesterkind said:
I'm pretty sure they meant that it's easy to use when it comes to what you're doing specifically because of the perk.
Yes, you have to invest time and skill into getting a hook, but you're doing that anyway. The unique thing you're doing to activate Pop is going and kicking a generator within 45 seconds of the hook after you get it, and that is easy. How often do you have Pop available but fail to activate it? Sometimes, but not frequently, right?
This, too, is not addressing whether or not it warrants a nerf, to be clear.
While true, there are survivor perks that do the same. We'll Make It can be argued to have the same amount of work to get to activate for a strong heal post-hook.
Survivor gets hooked > Naturally you unhook them to have a better chance to survive > +100% healing speed.
And I don't think a single one of us wants We'll Make It nerfed.
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I don't even understand the problem with Deadlock.
If survivors split gens, Deadlock can only target the highest one. And for it to activate, you have to lose a generator, actively losing your match to get value. It's like saying Fire Up needs to be nerfed because it's too easy to activate.
If they really wanted to nerf it, make it last less and less for each survivor killed or something.
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Just all killers? No nuance, no talk about different killer power differences?
Are we going to pretend all killers are as powerful as Nurse or Blight?
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Bamboozle's vault speed is only really good when you vault close to the survivor and if the vault in question is the only safe one around.
Superior Anatomy's speed opens up more wiggle room just by itself. Stacked even more so.
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I don't understand how people are mistaking this for greed.
We all know killers have vastly different limits to how they can be played and some REQUIRE the slowdowns if you want to have a chance with good survivors. Why is this never addressed?
And as far as stopping 'bullying', hook sabotage just got a massive buff. We're gonna see more sabo squads trying to abuse boil over builds.
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@Yharwick said:
What "genrush" perks are we talking about? Prove? Resilience? Neither of those are super crazy.
Resilience is actually not one to underestimate. By itself, sure 9% isn't much, but paired with another survivor running Prove, kitted out toolboxes with Built To Last, Streetwise, Hyperfocus, Stake Out, really any combinations of these perks can result in extremely fast and optimized gen speeds. Especially if survivors know how to utilize communication or the information on the HUD.
I escape far more of my of matches running Hyperfocus, Stake Out, Built to Last and Fogwise. Sometimes swapping Fogwise with Streetwise and Stake Out with Resilience if I'm feeling like my great skillcheck accuracy is on point. And I mostly play SoloQ.
Seriously, optimized gens are the problem.
Edit: Don't forget Deja Vu, also a strong perk to combine with other gen perks.
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@MoNosEmpire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3716277#Comment_3716277
For haddenfield my comments were mainly directed at the big white house, the street and the hedges to the right of it. They could've done a better job surely?
Big white house is Main iirc, so yes I agree they could have done that one better.
The street is either a hit or miss, sometimes it has good loops and sometimes one end of the street feels like a massive dead zone unless you have clearance to the small house nearby it. The hedges were redone a little better, no longer way too long for killer to deal with though so I'll give them a small gold star on that one.
But I agree, White House (Second floor mostly) and street need more love.
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That's my take away from all this, regardless of either side.
Strong stuff stays strong, the viable stuff will still be ran even if it gets nerfed, and all the useless perks continue to be neglected.
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The smaller buildings got decent changes imo, though indoor pallet loops were a bit silly.
What bothers me is the main house second floor. That side window on the right side (looking out from the front door for perspective) is now a death trap unless you run Balanced Landing since they put a giant hole very close to it, and that side of the house has no extended pallet loop for some defense. Not to mention, I haven't seen the other two rooms have a window vault either. I feel like they could have made a killer hole and a vault in those two rooms as well.
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@TheLastTreedad said:
Why would they nerf gen rushing. When it's the survivors doing gens is the only goal. Just like tunneling there's only so much you could do
What needs to be nerfed is how optimized it can become, not the genrush itself.
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My biggest gripe is, no matter where, there's a massive Us vs Them mentality.
I won't claim to be completely unbiased, since in my 2k hours I've players 60% killer and 40% survivor according to stats, but I never look at bad changes on either side and think "Thank goodness they got nerfed and not my stuff" or think one bad thing is justified because my side has other bad things.
That unfortunately comes with the territory with games like this, and it worries me that balance changes sometimes slip through because one side demands more for their side than the other. It hasn't been that terrible all things considered, but with sweeping regression changes with no changes to how optimized progression can become it worries me.
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I appreciate your ability to not use part of a killer's power, but this is kind of a bad argument against it really.
Personally I wouldn't mind scamper being tied to his M2 since they make a valid point of it being too easy to create lose/lose scenarios, but his M2 is kind of… Limited with it's movements in loopable areas anyway and becomes a different kind of lose/lose.
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It's weird to me because the arguments are 'Killers need more skill'
Okay, but what of killers that have no real mindgame potential and have no anti-loop or built in slowdown/gen defense? My Sadako games have become even worse with her 3.0 update since TVs are kinda too easy to deal with (Not to mention she's apparently bugged with her post-manifest intermittency), so her slowdown is dictated on whether or not you bring other slowdowns or if survivors neglect their condemned. On the other end of the Spectrum, killers like Freddy or Trapper suffer unless survivors make extremely bad decisions or misplays since Freddy is mostly just an M1 with a mediocre power and Trapper requires some setups that may not even pay off.
Every killer has a skill ceiling and a lot of the low tiers can only be so good. It's why you see players run more Blight, Billy, Wesker and Nurse because they can catch up quickly if they're skilled on those characters and can outpace gen repair speeds to a degree without slowdowns, with slowdowns they become extremely tough.
Really BHVR needs to address how fast gens can be optimized before nuking gen regression, or as I hope, while nuking gen regression. I'm hoping that the update will feature some kind of gen defense mechanic or progression limits that help low tier killers but aren't too oppressive against the high tiers, but that may not happen or even CAN happen.