CaulDrohn
CaulDrohn
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@DarkMagik said:
I Leveled Nemesis,Pyramid Head,Cheryl,Jill,Bill,& Leon Level 50
I bought the Teachables Monitor & Abuse,Corrupt Intervention,Tinkerer,& Inner Strength
I Unlocked the Crowns for Dwight,Jeff,Felix,Ace,& Legion
I level all my killers to P3-50 All Perks. Trapper through Blight just needed Nemesis perks, Twins and Trickster from P3-50 with about about 100 per tiers, Nemesis was leveled from P3-1 on (thats why I had more then 180 ckaes with him, which I'm gradually using up now ^^).
After levelling the killers, currently levelling my survivors equally (all on P3-50 or P0-50 already) to get them some more perks (around 90-100 perk tiers currently). I have Bill maxed out with all perks, don't need another one with all perks. Being able to play with any survivor decently well is more important for me, since I like to switch through them frequently.
I repeatedly bought all shrines perks for the BP, stopping when I was down do 20k shards (so I could buy a new killer and survivors with shards), down from maybe 65k shards.
Unlocked crown for all survivors and killers where a crown was available.
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@Lord_Tony said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2374055#Comment_2374055
the guy told me he doesn't care if he gets 0 points
Why even play then? If just for the fun, they could just play custom games.
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Since the addon change, I had a few huntresses, but none used iri head.
I myself used iri head one time, but equipped her other, new ultra rare with it.
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@Lord_Tony said:
I managed to get a 3 gen situation (survivor's fault) so instead of them doing any of the gens they just hide near the hatch.
So I found both of them near the hatch so I downed 1 of them then went for the second guy only for the guy I just downed to DC which opened the hatch for his friend and he escaped.
So then in end game chat they are telling me this is a legit strategy, it's a gameplay mechanic and it's not cheating.
is it really a "legit strategy" because almost every survivor that does this has told me it's a legit strategy.
And why does the hatch open instantly anyways? It should be a 30 second timeout at least.
Even if it would be legit, it's an incredible dumb move. The one DC'ing forfeits all their BP for the other to get 7k more (at max.). A net negative for the survivors in most cases. Sure it might rob the killer of some points as well, but that will only be something like 1k, givevn that you get a DC compensation. It only really hurts when a BBQ stack DC's.
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@baseballfan4877 said:
Yeah the stridor change is dumb. Why should a survivor perk ever trump a killer perk? I mean it totally nullifies it. Where as the oak offerings you would need 4 survivor offerings to match the single offering from the killer. So i'm not sure why this is different. The only time I have used stridor is on Freddy to try out the new swing chains, and that was super niche. I don't even use stridor on spirit. So with this change, stridor is just another perk that you never want to see on almost anyone. Just another great perk to find on the fun bloodweb grind along with overwhelming presence, dead mans switch, and cruel limits
"Why should a survivor perk ever trump a killer perk?"
Like Calm Spirit against Infetious Fright?
LIke Quick and Quiet against I'm All Ears?
LIke Distortion / Off the Record against BBQ or Nurses (albeit max three times for the former)?
You see, that's a non-argument, bc we already have that situation with other perks. Why is it ok for the other perks to completely counter killer perks, but not ok with Iron Will trumping Stridor? Just because Iron Will is meta ans Stridor is not?
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Furthermore, does no one complaining now remember the numerous threads where someone wondered why Iron Will would not work against stridor, since it should remove any injured sounds? The current additive approach is just not INTUITIVE, it's not what you would expect when reading the perk description. They upcoming change will correct that, so Iron Will will work exactly as expected. Try to see it more like an consistency change.
Sure, Iron Will will be buffed by that change. I think we can all agree that at least the breathing noises should not be muted as well. So Stridor could still help you find injured survivors bc of their louter breathing. That would be another required change for consistency.
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@ShinobuSK said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2371574#Comment_2371574
Regarding the number of crowns collected so far, as well as the highest number of players on Steam, the console playerbase is at least twice as big.
But they never opt PC out of crossplay since the biggest reason for them to add crossplay in the first place, was to lessen the PC players queue times.
Also explains why platforms don't have their own logos, PC players don't need it. Just to know if they are console or not is enough for them.
Regarding the logos, thats actually a licensing issue. The devs said in a stream they would love to use small xbox / PSN icons, but they are not allowed to do so.
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I just want my 100% achievements again, the RPD one is the only one I'm missing. Currently it's very rare to be sent there, and the offering is disabled. Can't wait for it to be activated again so I can get that last achievement!
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5/2 π ~ 7.854
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Killer adepts were even harder to get right after the emblems got introduced. You would practically lose Iri Gatekeeper when the survs managed to do more than two gens. Luckily they changed that later, so now you can still get Iri gatekeeper with one gen left, as long as the first four gens were not done too fast. And never let them open a gate, even after closing the hatch.
Kill adepts are still way more difficult than survivors, but it is manageable now, even in red ranks. Sure there will be lobbies where you stand no chance. But there will also be lobbies with suboptimal survivors you can beat easily to get your adept.
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Pre-change Franklins was only really useful against keys and maybe flashlights, but you had to ensure that the items get comsumed by camping them, otherwise it would be picked up again, reset the "destruction" timer.
New Franklins can totally destroy any item usage now, draining medkits, flashlights, maps, keys for aura reveal of their charges. Toolboxes are not effected when they are used at the start opf the match, obviously. Compared to Pre-change Franklins, even short durations on the ground will have an effect and drain some charges. And if you do not get the chance to pick your item up in a timely fashion (e.g. being hooked), the charges will be gone fast, and your item is useless, without you having any chance to use it. The only thing that new Franklins does not counter right now is key escapes, but thats going to change with the mimd chapter patch (when keys require at least one charge for opening the hatch).
So all in all, the new Franklins received a massive buff against all items except keys as of now, and will outperform the pre-change one totally when the mid-chaper update kicks in.
Edit: An on top of that, I think it's even more fair now, since you do not loose the item anymore. So you have a chance to take it with you when escaping. New Franklins works against the item usage now, not the item itself, which is more healthy imo.
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@Snowbawlzzz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2361847#Comment_2361847
Franklins is on me though, I misread that perk. Still though, it's not very helpful considering how long it takes items to lose their charges. they get 1.5 to 2 entire minutes to go grab their stuff.
Just one second on a brown medkit is enough to prevent you from healing fully with it (except you hit a great skillcheck). Same goes for ranger medkit or yellow madkit with gauze, you won't get two heals out of it if you are not lucky with the skill checks.
And don't underestimate how long it might take for you to pick your item back up again. If the killer commits to you after the first franklins hit, you will spend some more time in chase, being downed and hocked, and waiting for your unhooker. One hook state is 80 seconds, that alone can deplete your item more than 50%. If you are not in comms with others so they can pick up your item for you, the charges will likely be gone when you get off the hook.
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To flex a bit, I managed to P3-AllPerks all my killers during this anniversary event, the increase BP helped alot, also the daily new shrines :D.
In partitcular, I leveled Nemesis from P3-1 to P3-50 All Perks during the event, and now have 180 event cakes on him to spent :D. I already played like a dozen matches with him using the ckaes, so I don't know how many cakes I got from the bloodwebs in total.
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@Northener1907 said:
Title. Because all of them have fair counters.
Ruin + Undying Combo - Do bones. Killer can not be everywhere. Survivors have numbers, so please stop being lazy and destroy them. And survivors already have so much perks for totems, just use one of them.
Corrupt - This perk limited with time. So if you see killer have this perk, just hide somewhere. Search chests, clean totems near you etc. Killer have to find you, make him search area and have fun with this.
Tinkerer - Maybe only this perk little stronger but Spine Chill is already countering this perk.
Pop - Only this perk have not counter but this perk is rewarding killer for hooks. But you can block generator with Repressed Alliance or you can trap generator with Blast Mine.
Also you can use generator perks, they all countering sloowdown perks so well.
Prove Thyself - This is really so good perk. Removing penalty for doing gens with others.
Streetwise + Built to Last - This combo will make your toolboxes so well. Great perfonmance.
Stake Out - Not best perk for genrush but it can help sometimes. If killer have 3 gens, you can get tokens and use them easyly. Because killer will have 3 gens in small area.
Rookie Spirit - Killer kicked one gen and started chase survivor. This perk will show you this gen. You can go and finish it. This perk can save game so many times, i started use this perk on my gen builds.
Fast Track - Punish killer for hooks.
And there is more perks i did not mentioned. For example you can see auras with Bond and you can go to help them for gens.
Please stop complains. There is so much weapons you can use. Maybe give them try and do not worry. You can escape without your meta perks.
The problem is not the perks on their own, but stacking them together with a high mobility killer. LIke recently, we faced an Oni with Ruin, Undying, Pop and Tinkerer. Thats really overkill, and not really fun, esp. when the totems are once again unfindable, like they nearly always tend to be whenever you have to cleanse them to get a chance.
Let's get into your suggestions:
Ruin-Undying: As if the totems are always easy to find and to cleanse, they are not. Esp in solo Q. Even perks for it can fail you: Detective Hunch -> No gen gets done, or you are occupied with running away. Small Game -> Need to scan the whole map for it. Counterforce -> Need to find your first totem to get the chain rolling. And it's still very time inefficient.
Corrupt: I would LOVE to just wait it out, but again, Solo Q. Someones always being found.
Tinkerer: Can be outplayed reasonably well with good coordinations (oops Solo Q) or leaving the gen prematurelyat aroun 70%. But thats only when there's no ruin active. Tinkerer+Ruin or Tinkerer+Pop cannot really be countered.
Pop - Can be dealt with if the teammates are not potatoes, that means have reasonably long chases and do not tap gens without need. But ,you know the drill by now, SOLO Q!
Prove Yourself: Sure that helps alot. Unless the killer has discordance, than your perk might be pretty much wasted. Or you do not find anyone to do gens together. But it sure comes in clutch pretty often.
Streetwise + BUilt-To-last: Only viable in well organzied 4man / tournament squads. The teams that have the least issues with many gen regression in play to begin with.
Stake Out: To much of a niche perk. If it would always give you the 2% repair bonus on greats, it would be much better, but you only get that when you use a stack to convert a good skillcheck ot a great one.
Rookie Spirit: So good on paper, so little impact when you actually run it. Have done so in a dozen games, where it worked reasonably well like two times.
Fast Track: Fun perk, but rarely has a game changing effect.
So all in all, stacked gen regression perks can really be disgusting and make a really miserable experience. The more when you play SoloQ. It's not necessarily about the players refusing to "use the weapons", as you phrase it. Sometimes there's just no winning against an Oni with an unfindable Ruin+Tinkerer.
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@gibblywibblywoo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2357888#Comment_2357888
Its the same speed. There's just a placebo as the tentacle retracts faster in the animation.
@TeabaggingGhostface said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2357888#Comment_2357888
No you dont, you only get an extra meter
Really? DbD wiki says the same, alright.
But missing feels so much more forgiving in T3, strange.
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@TeabaggingGhostface said:
A cooldown reduction would be nice
You already get that in Tier 3.
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@DBD_IS_AWSOME said:
I bet a lot of Nemesis mains or just anyone who plays Nemesis knows that Tier 3 Nemesis is absolutely worthless 90% of the time. So, I was thinking what they could do for a Tier 4. Tier 4 would be just a bit harder to unlock than Tier 3 but this is how it would go.
Tier 4 Boosts:
Increases Range from 6 meters to 7 meters
When hitting a survivor with the Tentacle attack it infects and takes a health state. This does not apply when the survivor is in the injured state
what do you think?
Saying that it's worthless tells me that you do not understnad what's tier 3 giving you. It's not just an increased range, thats actually the lesser effect. The great thing about Tier 3 is his significantly shorter cooldown after striking with the tentacle. This allows you to somewhat spam the tentacle without giving up to much distance due to the cooldown. With Tier 1 and 2, it is really painful if you miss the tentacle, with tier 3 it's only a nuisance.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2356090#Comment_2356090
Forgive me for going almost word for word from their official Twitter account
If they actually might throw another patch out before the mid chapter, that would be great, but I wouldn't expect it.
And the mid-chapter itself might not be the end of the required patches, since console players cannot test it on the ptb.
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As survivor, you can play off-meta perks quite easiliy. I do that regularly, switching through my survivors which all have just a bunch of perks, only BIll having all. Often I do not even have an exhaustion perk equipped, and still can perfrom reasonbly well.
As killer on the other hand, playing off-meta often just results in you being "genrushed" and getting 2 to 3 hooks, if you don't wanna play scummy (cmaping/ tunneling). Esp. on weaker killers. Hell, with Trickster I don't even know what meta-perks to run, both ruin and pop are a wasted perk slot if you neither have map pressure (for ruin) nor get frequent hooks (for pop). So for killer, going off-meta is often just no fun at all, compared to survivor.
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"Still no update on performance issues."
We just had a PTB with various performance fixes, one would think that is "update" enough. And of course they won't release another hotfix patch if the mid chapter is this near.
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Another thing thats bad about this perk:
Even if it works, it effectively preserves the pallet. So you will have to deal with it in the near future again. Whenever I had the perk equipped, I wondered if it woulnd't be better they just drop the pallet, so I can destroy it.
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@SleepyWillo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2354943#Comment_2354943
lmfao that'd be the most broken perk in the game in that case 🤣 You're saying no pallets in chases!
You still need a hit to activate it.
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@GannTM said:
Doesn’t that completely remove the whole point of the perk? Trail of Torment, just like Tinkerer, Dark Devotion, and any other perk that makes you go undetectable is meant for killers to get surprise attacks. You put in that aura reading ability for the survivors and it completely gets rid of the purpose because they’ll be able to see it coming and will likely be more attentive about it.
I think Trail of Torment would be a decent perk if the survivors didn’t know that the killer is using the perk. I think it won’t be too strong and could offer another fun and above average perk that killers could use. Let’s be real, we’re all getting sick of the usual meta perks so let’s shake things up, not that I think Trail of Torment will be meta with this buff but it will still be more worth running.
The yellow aura is perfectly fine, imo. It lures the survivors to the gen, so you can potentially ambush them, they might waste time doing so, and you can use it for tracking (as long ad you stay undetectable, you know that gen is still regressing, so no one touched it). Additionally, with the addition of blast mine, ppl might mistake it easily with something other.
What's way worse for this perk is it's lengthy cooldown, and the fact that you lose undetectable when the gen reaches zero. Esp furiating is the edge case where you hit a gen with pop, it reaches zero instantly, and still ToT goes on cooldown without giving you anything. These twp things should be changed:
- Decrease the cooldown massively, something like 30s would be perfectly fine. With the yellow aura still being a thing, you might even consider to remove the cooldown alltogether.
- You no longer lose Undetectable when the gen reaches zero, the gen needs to be worked on / tapped for you to lose Undetectable. (or hitting someone, of course)
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You need to catch two survivors (may be the same one twice) with the same trap, so you may not pickup the trap, but need to reset it on the ground. Or use iri stone, so they reset themselve. Might be easiest when farming.
Edit: Maybe it's actually simplier, but you are guaranteed to get it if you catch two with the same trap, thats for sure (I got it that way).
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@BronzeHandModel said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2347756#Comment_2347756
Damn ok that is a very simple and obvious answer. I think my question is answered.
And that answer is wrong!
The devs have communicated it MULTIPLE times, that they are going to review/adjust the more recent killers in mid-chapter patches. They have done so with Twins in the last mid-chapter patch, they doing it now with Trickster, and they will do so with Nemesis in the next mid-chapter patch after this one.
Of course they should give Trapper some love as well, no one in their right mind would deny that. But this trickster review/buff was planned right from his release, you could say. So it's got nothgin to do with Trickster being a killer to buy (which is also a silly argument, since you can get him with shards, so you do not have to pay a single cent).
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Self Preservation for me, never used it outside of getting the adept.
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@Pilot said:
Just wanted to give a shoutout to all the killers that camp & tunnel with 3 or more cakes.
- If the match doesn't go right for killers, at least they get compensation. Their BP gain & score are usually higher than that of survivors, even when they escape.
- Survivors who get camped and tunneled get a measly 3-8k Bloodpoints, essentially making the cake offerings wasted.
My first game of today was against a clown with exposed bottles that constantly slugged, shook his head, hit us on hook, tunneled, camped and more.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/QDVIWPM3R2LB/image.png
Didn't have space to include the part where they use their strongest addons. Almost forgot to mention the Mori.
"But shouldn't x play optimally"? - Shut yer trap. That doesn't excuse your scummy play style whilst there are 4-5 cakes offered. The unnecessary tunneling & camping on top of other things.
All the killers that I've encountered today were so lovely...Bless the wraith that was actually a nice guy...
Survivors have to deal with 5x more BS than killers in this Event. The reason you see more keys as killer is because of BHVR's poor condition to get crowns as survivor.
And sometimes survivors force the killers to play that scummy.
Just got out of a particular frustrating demo game. They split up on gens from the start, powered through them without healing. Whenever I approached they sprint bursted / lithed away, w shifting as much as possible. And to top it all, even denied me my measly third hook by using flashlight. I only got two hooks this game, for trying to play nicely without camping / tunneling, since three cakes where in play. I would have def. got more with doing all the scummy tactics. Sure I got about 20k points, but that does not change the pure frustration and powerlessness I felt about this game.
So when a killer is fed up with such BS, I cannot really blame them for switching to scummy tactics. Don't know about your Clown, for obvious reasons, they could just be giant jerk.
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@DemonDaddy said:
Survivors should be happy with no nonsense killers. Brutal and straight to the point is better than mercy chances to make up for your own mistakes.
Tunnel, camp, baiting, iridescent add-ons, use every tactic at your disposal and try to kill us all with no mercy. I prefer a test of my ability over any handout.
You can still be a merciless force 4king all without being a total scum about it. How is it a "test of my ability" when the killer finds me first in a bad spot (may happen fast with Lethal Pursuer), and then camps / tunnels we down until I'm out of the game? "Bring certain perks" is hardly skillful.
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@BBQnDemogorgon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2323547#Comment_2323547
Limited time cosmetics, community wide in game goals, new event theme objectives like the goo flowers that one Halloween event had.
Basically 2017-2018 DbD events.
I also liked that events. But know what? Even then the forum was flooded with complaints from surviors about the event, bc their fellow survivors would only do the event things and no gens were being done. So BHVR thought about ways to change events that they are not that impactful to the general gameplay.
To sum it up: Our constant bitching in the past is one key aspect of why we do not have great events anymore. Think about that for a second.
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Tinkerer on its own is perfectly fine and you can play around it without much issue. Sure it has no direct cooldown, but it has an indirect one, since it can only prog on a gen again if the gen progress fell below 70%. And thats why it gets so oppressive with ruin and can be really annoying with pop.
So, if anything, the Tinkerer+Ruin(+Undying) combo would need a tone down, but surely not TInkerer on its own.
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@Mandy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2305985#Comment_2305985
This is not a bug, but by design. Knock Out does indeed block the aura's of perks such as Empathy.
Ok, nice unknown buff to the perk. Now that we have confirmation for that, is there a chance for updating the perk description to better clarify this aspect of the perk? Something like "This trumps all other survivor aura reveal effects." would be sufficient. At least for me, the new perk description did not reveal this change to me at all, and I'm guessing I'm not the only "veteran" player who missed that.
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@bjorksnas said:
When it was updated in 4.1.0 it also changed to trump all aura reading perks
You are right, it's even stated in the DbD Wiki:
Trivia
- Knock Out used to be trumped by various Perks that allow Survivors to see their injured peers, but this was changed with Knock Out's changes in Patch 4.1.0.
But if thats the case, I feel it should be clarified in the perk description. Since it worked differently before 4.1.0, older players like me still expect it to being trumped by survivor aura perks. The current description is not specific enough in this regard, imo.
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Works as intended, oblivious survivors do not hear the TR music and do not count as "in your terror radiius". So this anti-synergy of Hysteria with Legions power is intended and correct.
Remember old Object (see killers aura when outside their TR), which enabled you to see Freddy all the time when in dreaming state. The actual TR did also not count there. Oblivious will also prevent you from screaming due to Infectios Fright and Unnerving Presence won't work on you.
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We tested it out in custom games, and Knockout dedinitely hides alle yellow auras, including Bond, Empathy, Kindred, Better Together and when being hooked. We did not check Aftercare, but that shouldn't behave differently.
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It definitely did not work that way in the past! Empathy was always a hard counter to knockout, and Better Together / Kindred / Bond should work exactly the same. Also keep in mind, there is no Undetectable for survivors (except through survivor perks like Distortion and Off the record, and that does only work against killer auras), so an aura perk should always show you the respective auras as long as you are not under Blindness debuff.
Edit: Some more clarification: Knockout prevents you from seeing red survivor auras from a certain distance. Being on a hook and survivor perks give you a yellow aura, which should not be prevented by the perk. The only means to hide this would be Blindness debuff. /Edit
I have the fealing the devs messed up the aura reveal when they reworked the perk. It might even be intended, but then it should be stated as such in the perk description. @Almo @MandyTalk Do you have any info whether this was changed intentionally?
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@Milo said:
The situation of being over the top is similiar with how old Pig's daily worked (4 deaths via traps).
Kinda suprising they did the same thing again after that amount of time.
That was a thing, really? I already played the game when pig came out, but I didn't have her available until later, so I didn't know that her dailies were so screwed.
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@Babawizwiz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/259091/nemesiss-daily-needs-to-be-changed
Demogorgon has an even worse imo, having to fully charge shred attacks and get hits. With nemesis at least you're guaranteed to hit tier 3 per game so you know you're making progress.
It's pretty easy to hit a fully charged shred, you can enforce that and have the dily finished in one game. With the nemesis daily, you have to play it at least four times, there's no way around that. Thats exceptionally stupid!
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@Sluzzy said:
At first, I thought Blight needed a lot of skill to do well. I've seen enough and maybe some is needed but it is far less than required from the survivor. He is carried because there is not enough cooldown between his power and being able to M1 at full speed. Perks only adds a lot of icing on top for this character. I got out of a match on the killer-sided Ormond and it was one of the worst bloodbaths in a long time. He has virtually no challenges here, sprints across the map instantly downing everyone too easily. Very unacceptable. You cannot win against a Blight on most maps because they are too open. It is too easy for Blight to win. Too many deadzones, all he has to do is bump into something and it is a free down, most of the time. He also can turn too much at the end of his sprint so there is almost no counterplay to his spammable power.
His charges replenish too fast and there is not enough cooldown after the M2. Not enough cooldown, no punishment at all for missing a M2. He can spam his power and in only a few seconds he is fully charged again. Why is that possible? A well coordinated team should not be required to have a slight chance at winning. If you are less than a 4 man, you shouldn't automatically lose against this killer loaded down with oppressive perks. His cooldown after using his power should at least be twice as long. He has no punishment for using his power.
Blight needs nerfs and survivor needs buffed so it is fair to play against this killer.
It's funny that you complain about a Blight on ORMOND! When thats one of the maps where blight will glide from every rock without bumping into anything.
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@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2260115#Comment_2260115
i think you are severely overrating both Coup and Hoarder
like, your main critisism about BoP is that "the stars have to allign properly for you to use it", but you use the exact same argument as an upside for Coup? like, what are the chances of a gen being completed right at the second i am in the perfect Coup distance around a loop for me to get a good effect out of it?
and yes, not going for lunge attacks all game to save your precious tokens is a huge downside. Ive seen Otz play this Perk a lot and his gameplay always ends up being the same: walking up to them so close that he physically touches them to then hit them in order to not lose the stack. that around loops literally means eating more pallets than usual / losing window loops you otherwise would have won to wait for them to fall for a mindgame so hard that they run straight into your arms, wasting so much time that you could have spend elewhere pressuring generators. and if you just go for lunges, you got a dead perk - well, unless the starts happen to allign properly for you to use it that is.
this means the perk is, at best, the same as BoP (absolutely useless except for that one in a hundred scenario) and at worst directly working against you.
and for Hoarder i think you severely underestimate the effect two bonus chests can have for Survivors. Thats two more chances at looting a Key or a Medkit to quickly heal themselves up (the later isnt even a rare occurence). Hoarder in its current state might aswell be a Survivor Perk, given that they are the only ones getting some actual use out of it. If i want a tracking Perk i am going to pick literally anything over that. god i'd rather not run any Perk than running Hoarder!
That Perk is literally always working against you. and even if there is that one super rare clutch moment where it reveals someone in the basement on the chest that you wouldnt have heared without the Perk anyway (another one in a thousand scenario btw), it still provides the Survivors with bonus items. What good is a Killer Perk that actively buffs Survivors? its literally the Killer being nice and equipping a Shiny Coin offering for them!
Maybe i overrate it, alright, but you are heavily underrating it as well. No you do not have to wait for a gen to be completes in the right time. I actually was talking about the opposite: A gen being done while you a lunging to hit someone, so it wastes a token unintendedly. That might happen, but rather rarely. That's why you try to preserve them, to use them in the right time. You cannot do anything like that with BoP. Of course you should not play it like not doing lunges at all so you always preserve the stacks, bc that will hurt you bad. But more often than not it's perfectly possible to just walk a few steps further to avoid a lunge and hit with a quick attack, keeping your totem. Yes it can happen that your Coup evolves to a dead perk, not denying that. But at least it's not dead from the start, like BoP.
Coup is not "absolutely useless" as you claim it. When trying Twins adept, I got use out of it at least once every match. A thing I cannot say about BoP (whenever I had it equipped). When using it for fun on Wraith together with Devour, I got some very surprising long range instant down. Coup leaves the survivors in the dark about it's power until it hits them. BoP is noticable once it kicks in, and then you likely are not even in a position to use it for mind gaming.
Yes hoarder generates chests, which can turn out bad for you. IF they open chests. Hoarder on it's own can really be bad, yeah. But that brings me to another aspect we haven't covered yet, where Twins perks "perform better" than Huntress perks:
Synergy with other perks:
Oppression has great synergy with every other gen kicking perks, so Pop, Overcharge, Brutal Strength and the new Nemesis perk. Also Surveillance, since it will highlight affected gens. Hell, there's even some synergy with Huntress Lullaby, Lullaby will affect the difficult skill checks fomr Oppresion and grant the bonus regression.
To get more use out of Coup, you could pair it with one shot perks like Haunted Grounds, Devour, Make Your Choice. To know when you get a token, you can equip tinkerer.
For Hoarder, using Franklins is the way to go for mitigating the additional items. Also they survivors will want to pikc their items back up again, so you get more value out of it. Granted thats just a meme build, but can turn out pretty will if the survivors are particualr stingy with their items.
Lullaby has some synergy around skillchecks, so Unnerving Presence, Overcharge and Oppression (all not that great perks, right). Aka Impossible Skillcheck Builds. But thats about it. And that particular build is not even useful for anyone except Doctor.
Beast of Prey has .... actually no synergy with any other perk! There's nothing to make you gain Bloodlust faster, or give you some other effects during bloodlust. Hell, you could say it has some synergy with Coup, bc that would allow you to get a hit easier when the survivor does not now where you are coming from. You could also say Bambozzle, but when you use this, you should be able to hit the survivors fast enough without needing BoP in the first place.
Territorial Imperative has ... again no real synergy. Make your choice in case someone is hooked there maybe, but you will have to wait until the unhook happened until you come back. TI has no impact there at all. The only scenario where TI is useful is together with Demo and Make Your Choice.
So all in all, with Twins perks, you can use them to complement builds or base the build around their perk. For huntress perks, only Lullaby can be integrated in a certain build, that only works somewhat with Doctor, the other two lacking any synergy (apart from TI + MYC with Demo).
I think thats the main reason why I see Twins perks as better than huntress perks, and is actually the reason why I bought twins in the first place (I did not want to buy them bc i found them unappealing, but I liked the perks): The perk synergies with other perks of Oppresion. And Coup having a genuine effect. Sure the individual power of the perks way be weak (although I still think huntresses are weaker), but at least there are ways to complement them to get more use out of them. I cannot see that with the huntress perks. Even for Impossible Skill Check builds, Lullaby is likely the weakest link in that all, bc it's a hex and will be cleansed after 5 minutes max.
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"i wont deny there are scenarios where Coup can come in clutch."
Yes, a thing you cannot say about Beast of Prey (theoretically it might as well, but the stars havbe to allign right to do so) or Territorial. Maybe for Lullaby, but thats also questionable since it will not live long enough to torture survivors with it's no-warning skill checks (also thats just RNG).
"first of all, you lost gens - thats never a good thing in the first place."
Yes, and that will happen in nearly every game, even when winning. It's occasionally rare to 4k with no gens being done. Even when dominating hard, you will lose 1-2 gens easily, giving you the same number of coup stacks.
"secondly you have been actively avoiding to perform any form of lunge attacks in any of your previous chases to not accidentally lose your precious Coup token, which at the very least made chases take longer for you to win and in the worst case cost you a multitude of possible downs that you didnt want to take in order to not waste your Coup."
Avoiding a lunge is not that hard, just wait half a second longer until hitting. There's usually enough time to do so. If not, sure use the token to hit where you would have hit with a normal lunge. Better waste a token than not hit anyone bc you want to keep it. You just have to play it right, than there won't be a downside. Sure that might waste each and every token if you are unlucky, which makes you whole perk be wasted (so like a ruin being found right at the start of the trial). But i'd argue that won't happen often, esp. when you have some experienve with it.
"this perk is not "okay", this perk is straight up trash. The benefit of it gets outweight heavily by all the downsides and requirements."
Like i said, If you do not play to defensively with it, there is no downside. The downside comes with playing the perk wrong. The requirements are easy to meet (some gens will always get done, and if not, you do not need coup at all).
"Hoarder also isnt "underwhelming" - its probaply the worst Killer Perk in this entire game right now. You literally just spawn two bonus chests for Survivors to loot items they can use throughout the trial from and the only upside is that, IF you are close enough, you get told they do so."
And still it's better than territorial. Both perks are not expected by survivors, which is good. But territorial can easily be missed, the audio cue is just to miniscule. Or the perk does not activate bc you are still to near to the basement. Hoarder can also tell you when someone is in the basement (opening a chest). When I played Twins for adept, Hoarder gave me some intel in ever game, sometimes allowing me to surprise a survivor in the basement. A thing I cannot say about Territorial. You play multiple games without it being of any use for you. The only somewhat consistent way of playing it is camping the basement from far away. And we all now how fun camping is.
"Oppression is one of those Perks that COULD be good, but just end up being bad thanks to the unnecessary restrictions on it. it has way too long of a cooldown plus is extremely RNG reliant due to the random choosing of the 3 affected Perks. Its not horrible, but it gets outshined by pretty much all of the "combination Perks" you listed above."
Yes, the cooldown is unnecessarily long, wish it would be halved. It does not have to outshine the mentioned perks. It's there to complement them.
"the verdict for Twins: two absolutely horrid Perks and one okay one."
One ok (Coup), one underwhelming (Hoarder), one decent (Oppresion) in my book.
"Beast of Prey is very underwhelming in its effects. However, at the very least it rewards you with bonus BP and does not inflict you with a downside that actively hinders you, unlike Coup or Hoarder. that alone makes it better than those two."
The bonus BP are neglectable. Hunter is a very easy category to get points in. Also the are awarded in the trial, not post trial, so all it does is maxing out Hunter faster. If our games are over fast, sure you will get more out of hunter, but in a regular long trial, you will hit hunter may easily without it. Yes it has no downside, but its upside is barely existent, giving it a net zero imo. Coup played right will only be net zero if you are really unlucky with your lunge attacks. Hoarder will if the survivors do not open chests.
"now for Hex: Huntress Lullaby, you are right its a rather underwhelming Hex Perk. However, that doesnt mean it would be a weak Perk. The 6% bonus regression on missed Skillchecks can be huge, especially on Killers like Doctor or in combination with other Perks that make Skillchecks harder to hit, and the audio cue removal can make the Perk quite powerfull against People who might not be very concentrated on the gen aswell as force them to concentrate on their generator more than usual, meaning they become more oblivious to ambush attacks from stealth Killers. Its by no means an amazing Perk, but it certainly is better than Oppression is."
Yes the bonus regression is nice. But since it's a hex it has to live long enough. Which it usually doesn't, esp if you struggle hooking survivors. With ruin, you get the effect imidiately. Not with lullaby, weaker effect which needs build up. At least Oppression can be used from the start, only limited by its oppressive (pun not intended) cooldown. It grows stronger the less gens are available. Lullaby would get stronger as well, but the longer it stands the more likely it gets finally cleansed.
"the verdict for Huntress: one useless Perk, one severely underwhelming one and one decent Perk."
This i can agree with ^^.
"it might not be by much, but Huntresses Perks are definitely better than the Twins."
Not in my book.
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@Altarf said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2257870#Comment_2257870
People undervalue Beast of Prey. Sure, it's not the best perk, but you get level one of Bloodlust pretty fast, relatively speaking. Moving 5% faster AND having no red stain during a chase can actually lead to hits you wouldn't have gotten otherwise. I'd take it over Hoarder, and at least it's consistent, unlike Coup de Grace.
Where the hell is Beast of Prey consistent? You have no real control when Bloodlust kicks in or when it activates, other than chasing for some time. You have to be lucky to get it activating in a loop where hiding your red stains helps. And you could do the same by just moonwalking. It's a straightout bad perk, bc you have to play "bad" (aka getting Bloodlust) to get any effect. And it only helps for mindgames, it does nothing for you when the survivor you are chasing sees you all the time. Also, when they know you got undetectable, they will play it more safe if possible.
Compared to that, Coup is way more consistent, bc you decide when to trigger it (apart from being unlucky when lunging whilke a gen gets done). You have the total control when to use it, if you are mindful of your lunge attacks. With some practice, you will get some surprise hits with nearly every stack. And compared to Beast of Prey, you can use it in every loop, regardless if the survivor sees you or not. If you can time it right, there's nothing a survivor can do to prevent the hit. Sure, gens need to be done in order for you to get stacks. but that will happen in the majority of the games, its rare to 4k with 5 gens remaining (and then you did not need coup at all). You will get 2-3 stacks in nearly every game, more if you are performing bad. Its up to you to use them in the right moment to get value out of it. Compared to that, You wouldn't get so much more Beast of Prey acrtivations in the same time frame (of course if you are chasing badly, it would be more), with hardly any situation where it really helps you, since you have no immidiate control over it.
If Beast of Prey would be changed to have its Undetecable Effect being triggered voluntarily (by pressing a button), maybe after chasing survivors for 30 seconds or something, then I would consider it being better than Coup. But as of now, it's one of the worst perks in the game, only slightly better than such jewels like Predator and Monstrous Shrine. Coup is by no means great, but significantly more useful than Beast of Prey, imo.
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@Mister_xD said:
sure!
you have one that straight up buffs Survivors (Hoarder), one that is 100% RNG with a 50 hour cooldown (Oppression) and one that is super hard to get, immensly underwhelming, while also being extremely easily wasted on accident (Coup de Grace)!
in terms of Perk vaule the Twins are, in my humble opinion, the worst Killer in the game. Even Huntress has better Perks and that says a LOT.
Dude, Twins perks are way more useful than huntresses!
Beast of Prey and Territorial Imperative both do literally nothing for you in 9 out of 10 matches. And the one time it does have an effect, its not even great. Huntress Lullaby is one of the weakest hex perks. It might be useful with 4 or 5 stacks, but then it's usually gone. Apart from "impossible skillcheck" builds, Huntress Lullaby has no purpose. And even in this sort of builds, it's just icing on the cake, and easily replacable with better perks.
On the other hand, Coup even when just working once can give you a surprise hit or down. That alone makes it leagues better than Beast of Prey and Territorial Combined. Oppresion works really well together with Pop and Surveillance, and esp. shines in protecting a 3 gen. It's not just about the difficult skill check, it saves time bc you do not need to kick the gens yourself. I played all my matches with P0 Twins with it, bc I did not have better slowdown perks, and it allowed my to prevent or at least delay the completion of the last gen(s) multiple times. Hoarder is the weakest of Twins perks, but again can result in some suprise hits or downs, bc survivors won't expect it.
Overall, we have two trash and one underwhelming perk for huntress, and two ok and one underwhelming perks for Twins. Sure Twins perks are not great, but saying they are even worse than Huntresses, that's just so wrong.
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@TheBus4K said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2252977#Comment_2252977
Keep saying it's great, I'm very afraid of the survivors who use that combo 😈
Seriously, whats wrong about using Self Care + Botany + Medkit, tell me? Self Care is only a detriment to the survivor team if it is used badly, always running to the edge of the map and healing there, possibly even through mangled. If you heal on the spot the moment you are no longer chased, using your medkit, you are healthy again in just a few seconds. What is your problem with that?
Self Care is not bad per se, neither is Urban Evasion. It's the players using it wrong that hurts the team. I use Self Care + Botany + Medkit from time to time myself, and usually do not need to use Self Care at all bc the Medkit holds long enough. Which it does bc. of Self Care's secondary effect.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2254225#Comment_2254225
Oh damn I thought it said before ANY generators are repaired
Those poor survivors I absolutely bodied...
You evil person, you :P
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@Shroompy said:
Probably because of that challenge where you need the game to end without a single gen being done
EDIT: *with Corrupt Intervention
The challenge states "Finish the trial before ALL generators are repaired while using the perk Corrupt Intervention.". So not end it without a sinlge gen done, but before the 5 got done / the gates were powered.
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@Soulslayer618 said:
a large number of people hate keys I acknowledge that
my question however is do you change how you play when you see someone has a key? why or why not?
keys have many uses other than just "opening hatch" I personally like to use it for the bond effect but I cant because it gets me tunneled every time and I dont think its fair to the person being tunneled because they get rushed and cant play the game, the other survivors because they dont get to do chases which makes the game boring for them, or the killer because they just wasted their time to "put that survivor in their place so they dont get a 'free win'."
I usually let the last one out through gate or hatch when they did not annoy me. But not when they are holding a key. And esp not when they picked it up from a sacrificed survivor. If they drop it (again) they are free to go. If not, it's hook time!
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@Sluzzy said:
Out of the last 10 matches, only 1 saw the gates opened. Killers definitely need toned down.
Or, maybe, git gud?
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@TheBus4K said:
Thanks for showing me that you use Self-Care, now I understand a lot of things.
Again, thank you for helping to make my games easier.
Self Care + Botany + Medkit, thats perfectly valid. Sluzzy posts enough questionable things, correspond to that instead of shaming bc of Self Care.
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99'ing the gates does more harm than good for the survivors.
For one there's the obvious case, you being injured and chased by the killer. You simply do not have any time to open the gate, not even tapping it. A 99'ed gate kills you in this scenario. If another survivor stays at the gate to open it if need be, it won't matter, but it's not uncommon that no one is there to open it for you when you need it.
Sometimes you may not even know whether a gate was indeed 99'ed, bc you cannot see the switch until being very close. You will only see a closed door from far away. With the killer on your heels, you might be tempted to run further instead of to the gate, even if you would have time to on-tap it and go out. With an already opened door it's crystal clear that you can get out there.
And lastly, like others have mentioned, the killer gets more time to kill and hook ppl bc the survivors do not want to leave anyone behind. I had SO MANY games that went really bad, with only like 2-3 hooks until all gens were done, only to have the survivors getting them killed repeatedly after that, so I go out with 10+ hooks multiple sacrifices, compared to 3 hooks and one sacrifice.
Regarding Bloodwarden, that one is used SO RARELY! And even when it triggers, you can easily outplay it: Just do not hide at the exit, but nearby. The only real danger is a late bloodwarden, so the entity kills you due to EGC. But than can be easily dealt with (running out before someone get's hooked, or proactively trigger it early by opening the gate right BEFORE someone gets hooked!).
To summarize:
For killer, 99'ing the gates gives them a chance to get some more hooks / kills of the game went bad.
For SWF survivors, 99'ing the gate is fine, since you can coordinate via comms.
For soloQ, 99'ed gates do not help you in the majority of games, but may be your death sentence.
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@PubStar87 said:
Soooo enjoying the train of basement camping bubbas, insta-teleporting MYC Demo's, and camp happy basement Trappers.
Fun
I did use Bubba, but without excessive camping. I just equipped Agitation, Iron Grasp and Mad Grit (helped me secure two hooks which would wiggle free otherwise!), carried them to the basement and went out again to find my next victim. Sure I would return to the basement when someone was resvcued and I didnt find someone else in the meantime, but then would let the unhooked run away or at least crawling away. It only took me 2 games, with the second game alone I made 10 basement hooks.
Imo hardcore basement camping just leads to more games you have to play until you get all 12 basement hooks.
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I recently got my last one (Trickster), now I have ALL achivements (until the new chapter hits, that is) *flex*