Blueberry
Blueberry
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I've been saying this for ages. MM should have his stalk limit per survivor removed. On that note he should also have his multi-stalk back.
Removing these features is artificially limiting his skill cap and game play styles. His whole technique is supposed to be finding the weakest link and using that person to bring down the better players. He should also be rewarded if he can capitalize on survivors stacking out in the open with multi-stalk.
Removing these features makes no sense. It's another handicap put in place specifically because of low ranks that ends up hurting him tremendously against good players.
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@Volfawott said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1526964#Comment_1526964
Not disagree with your other points I think you're up points are pretty valid.
Just at the body blocking aspect of it tends to only work if the surviving question is it really using their brain.
Most legions will get as close as possible to the survivor before cancelling out their power to body block you usually have to try to get a head of the survivors.
Most good survivors will notice you trying to get ahead of them and simply divert their direction because feral frenzy is timer based you usually don't have the luxury of readjusting if you make the body block commitment.
Now with the heavy punishment of a 4 seconds stun it gives the survivor more enough time to divert themselves into a safer position.
Using cooldown add-ons to lower the fatigue can you help with body blocking but it still doesn't make it all that great against people who can notice what you're doing
I'm not saying it isn't weak, has lots of drawbacks and lots of counter play. All I am saying is there is an additional skill cap to it. Knowing how to fake like you're going to FF spread pressure and then double back and force their direction.
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@Volfawott said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1525522#Comment_1525522
Body blocking with frenzy and fatigue is not as strong as you think it is.
It relies on the survivors themselves messing up
I never once said it was strong.
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I'd be closer to buffing him than nerfing him.
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Hardly ever get to experience the maps in general when I'm on killer as it's always instant DC's from the survivors. I don't DC when i get thrown Ormond or Rotten Fields and maps like those are a pretty guaranteed loss if the survivors are even semi decent and you're not on one of the top tier killers.
On survivor side the problem is you're trying to "win" chases. Your goal is to extend chases. You win those maps by spreading out and all working on different gens. Aside from the few stealth killers you also always have a heads up there coming to stealth away.
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Pretty overrated imo.
There's only a few killers it is actually extremely good on like Demo or Deathslinger etc. The few that have reliable alternate attacks for damaging the obsession essentially.
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@johnmwarner said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1525480#Comment_1525480
I think Demo May need a sound rework honestly. His undetected addon, especially the one that makes it 10 seconds would be really fun and decently powerful if he didn’t walk like a Mack truck.
Oh I think he needs much more than just an addon rework as well. I was just mentioning addons specifically because it was the thread topic.
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@slim0b said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1525411#Comment_1525411
"hidden skill ceiling"
Also legion: m1 killer
When the point just flies right over your head.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1525411#Comment_1525411
Also, correct me if I’m wrong, didn’t the devs say they were happy with how Legion is performing and the rate of success most players were having?
In a round about way that is kind of what they said indirectly. How I would interpret what they said anyway, which is sad to hear.
Especially with how flawed those stats are to being near useless in terms of balance.
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@Zeus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1525411#Comment_1525411
I would disagree. He uses his power when he's close to a survivor and there's nothing that can stop him from getting the first hit. Predicting pallet drop isn't a skill exclusive to legion. I dont see any hidden skill ceiling to him. It's like the Devs saying that clown still has untapped potential.
The difficult part about him is getting the down..as an M1 killer.
"He uses his power when he's close to a survivor and there's nothing that can stop him from getting the first hit."
I disagree. Also, you already made a mistake if he got that close in the first place.
"It's like the Devs saying that clown still has untapped potential."
Except this was him implying Clown was good and didn't need changes, which is not what I'm saying or implying.
"The difficult part about him is getting the down..as an M1 killer."
Yes, that is the difficult part, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have other skill ceiling besides just knowing how to play an M1 killer.
There's a skill level for knowing when to use his FF for spread pressure or breaking for the m1. There's also body blocking with the fatigue, faking the FF spread pressure for a return, using the FF speed to redirect the survivor into bad pathing, determining when to force Mends to prevent saves and force the healthy survivor off a gen. There's a lot more to him than you're seeing.
As I said before, I'm not saying he's strong or even good. I think he's one of the weakest killers in the game and needs quite a few changes to fix him. I'm just saying there's more skill ceiling on him than you're giving him credit for.
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Demo and Pig
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@slunder said:
@Blueberry oh ok, we are in an english class now.
@clem1710 lol you did not even bother explaining why. Also someone who only plays killer (you very likely do) will not be able to feel the frustrations of the other side. I am going to check your posts and if you tend to think like a killer main, I will not bother arguing with you.
You're literally wanting to have a conversation about a word that you don't know the definition of. I tell you the definition and instead of a rational response you just mock the other person?
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"This post will ask a few questions, and it will determinate if are a one side thinking guy or if you are someone that understands both of them."
Your entire premise from the get go is already flawed as you are determining bias while not using the actual definition of bias. Bias does not mean you have a skew towards one side.
So hypothetically if all their answers show as they think killers need more buffs for example, that is not bias. Bias would be if they had an unfair slant towards one side. Something that is not being determined by these questions.
"Question 3: Do you think tbagging and camping is fine?
a) T-bagging is fine but camping is not.
b) Camping is fine but t-bagging is not.
c) Both are ok&both are bad.
"
Not to mention the questions are flawed in the first place. Here's one as an example.
Camping is helping you win faster and more efficiently, tbagging is not. Tbagging is literallly just you trying to be annoying and toxic.
Note that I am not saying whether camping is fine or not. What I am saying is that you are comparing apples and oranges. Those are not equivalent things.
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I disagree on the Legion skill level. I think he's got some hidden skill ceiling.
I also don't think he needs a full rework. He can be fixed quite easily with some small tweaks.
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@TruffleTurtle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1524214#Comment_1524214
Honestly I feel like some could just use some number changes here and there and they would be just fine. It should be easy to implement but im not a dev so its probably more complicated then that or they would just do that
That's why there's no reason perk adjustments should be taking this long. At least half that perks that need adjustments literally just need number changes as you've said. No work needed.
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For how many perks there are that need huge buffs/reworks we should be seeing much, much faster perk changes than we currently are. The current rate is just way, way too slow.
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I prefer original a lot more than licensed.
That said, it's probably Candyman. Which would be disappointing to me.
If it's for sure licensed, I hope it's Alien or Resident Evil.
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I find this weird as I see comments like that once every maybe 100 games, if that, extremely rare. Regardless, just report it and move on, it’s just words after all. I personally don’t even report it myself as it just doesn’t bother me and I just think it makes them look childish. I could care less what people type to me on a video game I mean really.
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Tbh items countering certain killers so hard feels like an outdated relic of the past. We shouldn't have items that hard counter killers like that, especially with the new system locking killers imo.
Plus none of the killers that get countered hard by items are near the "too strong" list, so I don't really see an issue with just removing that feature.
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I would say at least 75% of my matches at rank 1 are 3-4k's. Only reason there are 3's is because of hatch which is basically a 4k though.
Now this may seem high, but there are some things to keep in mind. Not only is matchmaking terrible now, but it has been for ages. As well as having messed up ranking and a broken derank system, meaning LOTS of survivors at high ranks that have absolutely no reason for being there.
My point is that with all these issues we've had for a very long time it means even at rank 1 we are being put against a lot of other "red ranks" that aren't really red ranks and are more like green or lower if we're being honest.
This is a good example of why kill stats are near completely worthless in terms of measuring balance.
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@Desh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1516056#Comment_1516056
Just going to post these stats here that were reported last year. Regardless if it's brand new players or seasoned vets, Freddy still comes out on top as the Strongest Killer, which he is.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/106566/stats-november-2019
Also, Lullaby is a prime example. Because it is devastating at Red Ranks because before MMR, I went against Rank 1-4 as a Rank 1 and when the hex wasn't immediately removed, it was extremely effective. Because even if they could hit those skill checks, they are too focused looking out for the next one and not their surroundings. The hex perks themselves do not need buffs. They are extremely good on their own without synergy which it what makes them great.
People understand how potent Lullaby is because that's usually the top 3 perks to immediately get removed along with DH and NOED. If people HAPPEN to see Ruin or Third Seal, they'll remove it of course. But they won't go out of their way to find it when it's a fast paced game and they don't have a lot of time.
As has already been stated by the devs themselves and debunked many times, these stats should not be used to draw conclusions for balance. They are skewed by many, many things to where they are near worthless.
"The hex perks themselves do not need buffs. They are extremely good on their own without synergy which it what makes them great."
No one that seriously plays both sides at rank 1 with a good amount of hours would think that.
"People understand how potent Lullaby is because that's usually the top 3 perks to immediately get removed along with DH and NOED. If people HAPPEN to see Ruin or Third Seal, they'll remove it of course. But they won't go out of their way to find it when it's a fast paced game and they don't have a lot of time."
Because they don't need to, because it's weak and because they'll randomly stumble upon it anyway because totem spawns are bad. Lullaby is not a good perk dude.
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@Desh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1515989#Comment_1515989
... Yeah it does? Even if you deviate from skill level, a Killer like Freddy for example gets very consistent skills due to his power and playstyle that anyone can pick up.
And again, also untrue. If you don't believe they are strong, I want you to imagine Ruin, Lullaby, Third Seal, Devour, and TOH as ordinary perks with the same abilities. Idk about you, but a Killer running around with Lullaby as a regular non-hex perk is significantly OP because there is no way to counter that unless you continually tap the gen to completion.
"... Yeah it does? Even if you deviate from skill level, a Killer like Freddy for example gets very consistent skills due to his power and playstyle that anyone can pick up."
No, what it means is that there are a lot of bad survivors on average that make killers look stronger than they are.
"And again, also untrue. If you don't believe they are strong, I want you to imagine Ruin, Lullaby, Third Seal, Devour, and TOH as ordinary perks with the same abilities. Idk about you, but a Killer running around with Lullaby as a regular non-hex perk is significantly OP because there is no way to counter that unless you continually tap the gen to completion."
You are misunderstanding what I'm saying. I am not saying those perks shouldn't be hex perks. What I am saying is that they aren't good enough to warrant being hex perks. In other words, they need buffs.
Also, Lullaby is a terrible example. That perk is extremely weak. Even if it hypothetically wasn't a hex perk..still weak. It literally just removes the sound before the skill check and extra penalty if you miss...that's it. That is doing nothing against survivors that are even half competent. That would be devastating on what...a rank 20? Rank 1's aren't missing those skill checks.
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@Desh said:
Use them all Hex build at Rank 1 and I get consistent 3-4ks. Granted I use Ruin / Lullaby / Third Seal / Devour. It's fun to use the build and allow the Survivors to dictate the flow of the game. If they get mad at me for using the build (and they usually always do), I just blame them for how they refused to cleansed.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1515402#Comment_1515402
No Hex perk is weak. If they were, they wouldn't be Hex perks. These perks are powerful enough that they have to be put as Hexes so it's up to the Survivor on whether or not it's worth cleansing them.
And I can get consistent 4k's at rank 1 with any killer using zero perks or addons, that doesn't mean that killer is strong.
"No Hex perk is weak. If they were, they wouldn't be Hex perks. These perks are powerful enough that they have to be put as Hexes so it's up to the Survivor on whether or not it's worth cleansing them."
No, they aren't hex perks because they are in fact strong, they are hex perks because the devs think they are strong and aren't the best at proper balancing.
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The vast majority of his addons are completely garbage. His best addon is even a grey. He does need a huge addon pass.
While I like your buffs, they still seem way too weak. They need much higher numbers and just generally how his portals work need improvements to make these addons more worth.
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Hex perks in generally are quite weak and not worth running.
The only hex that's currently worth being a Hex imo is DH. It's actually high risk/high reward. Almost all the other hex's are high risk/low-average reward.
Most their effects aren't good enough on top of totem spawns still being god awful years later.
Yeah they'll seem effective at lower ranks where people don't know what they're doing, but so will anything at that stage.
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@NoShinyPony said:
There is no logical reason why the MMR is hidden.
The only thing we can see clearly now is that the system is not working. Honestly, we can't even tell if the system simply isn't working or if it even doesn't exist in the first place.
That's the funny part. Hypothetically the entire thing could be completely made up and we'd have no idea since it's hidden.
Not saying it is, just pointing out the hilarity of having it hidden.
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Supposedly to prevent people from being able to manipulate it (which already happened with ranks anyway and is going to happen regardless of if they can see it or not) and so people don't feel bad seeing their own MMR (not a joke).
Honestly I can't think of a single good reason for it to be hidden other than preventing people from calling them out when it isn't working properly.
I can however think of some serious negatives of it such as confusing the heck out of new players that have no idea what's going on, among others. There's a reason almost all other games show their MMR.
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Ormond would be really cool to expand on.
Everyone generally hates Ormond because it's extremely unbalanced, but most people actually like it aesthetically. If Ormond was actually fixed balance wise I think it would be pretty popular tbh.
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Freddy or Spirit. An unpopular opinion.
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Even just an acknowledgement as to whether it's intended or a bug would be nice. I need to know if this is something we have to get used to.
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He's actually a killer I've been asking for a while. Perfect fit.
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The only real reason to hide it is if they think it's not gonna work properly. Saying people would better be able to know what makes it go up or down to manipulate it is just disingenuous. People know how to play bad and how to play good, that isn't going to stop them.
Hiding it prevents us from being able to call them out on it like we did when matching was based on ranks.
This is especially a nightmare for new players who have no idea what's going on. The only thing they see is ranks..that don't matter for matching..but make you think matching is screwed up...instead of the actual "ranking" that matches you...that isn't shown.
Like just look at how messed up and confusing that is for a new player...or even just in general. It's a mess.
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Update: Now it's also saying I don't own the game at all after logging out of steam and back in.
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I had the same issue. It took the Stranger Things DLC from me.
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I just logged into the game to find myself no longer having the Stranger Things DLC. It shows them greyed out on the character select screen. I already had both survivors and Demo at lvl 50 with Steve p2, Nancy p3, and Demo p3 with all perks in the game at T3.
Platform: PC
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I don't think they're powerful at all. They are meme addons. Meant for fun and messing around.
If the killer actually gets them to work in a game before all the gens are done then either me or my team played really bad.
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So far it doesn't even feel like there is a matchmaking system. I feel like I'm just getting the first handful of random people that queued up, anywhere from 3k+ hours to just downloaded the game.
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It's honestly a mess. For a new player coming into the game they are gonna have no idea about this "hidden" MMR system. They are simply going to see the rank differences and get pissed off.
We can't have this separate MMR system and rank system going on simultaneously. They need to be made cohesive for clarity, especially for the new players.
Hypothetically if the rank wasn't shown in the after lobby screen but their MMR was instead, that would be MUCH clearer.
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I agree on your base premise, but not about NOED or DS. The game would be much better without either of them.
They are bandaid fixes for core bad designs that need fixing. IE game speeds and hook spreading not being the most efficient way to win.
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Here's the funny part, hypothetically they could have made up the entire thing about releasing a new MMR matchmaking system and literally just left the matchmaking to be in its current bad state and you would have no idea because it's hidden.
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@xEa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1505701#Comment_1505701
Which is a shame because i really think slugging is a strong... often neccessary way to play the game (time pressure, DS etc) But you might be right tho, they probably will not make any changes like this. Thanks for your constructive feedback.
Oh I actually agree with you on that point.
In the games current balance you have to do some variation of slugging, tunneling, or camping if you want to win against "good" survivors. There literally is not time for you to one hook each survivor one at a time, working your way around. It's simply unviable if the survivors are even semi decent. Gens are just too fast.
Most people will slug as that's the least annoying out of the three.
That's why when people complain about slugging it really just tells me they don't play killer almost whatsoever at any meaningful rank.
Especially since as we've pointed out already, there are many, many counters to slugging that's been added over the years, as well as multiple nerfs to it in general when it already wasn't too strong imo. Slugging is also just in general extremely high risk, as it can backfire quite hard and cost you a lot.
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@xEa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1505561#Comment_1505561
Would be still a perk that has little to no use because there are better alternatives. Survivors dont heal in your terror radius anyway because of Nurses calling and if you buff it so the effect persists after they leave terror radius it might be broken on maps like game. With the suggestion it would have its own purpose (anti unbreakable/recovery) which is not in the game yet. And it would be a great purpose since you usually slug people to go for another down who is nearby (and therefore in your terror radius) and therefor you get almost always massive value out of it.
Broken? No. Situationally better on certain maps? Yes, but that's lots of perks.
We know people don't heal in the TR, that's the point of a lingering effect that you could potentially keep reactivating with high pressure around the map from the delayed effect.
While anti-recovery is cool and all, the devs would never do that. They've made it extremely clear throughout the years of nerfs to slugging that they really hate it. Not to mention all the anti-slug perks they keep adding.
I really don't think they want a perk making slugging any better.
Look at Knockout even. It actually got nerfed and it was already bad in the first place.
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The killer aura perks like Coulrophobia just need to persist for like 15 seconds after leaving their TR. Now it's solid.
The other aura perks for killer would still need more buffs though.
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@Kasmika said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1498700#Comment_1498700
Thing, it is a guess.
How do you exactly know if she's phase walking?
How do you exactly know if she's standing stil?
There's not enough information to be correct, it isn't a mindgame.
She can have maybe a phase walking effect that requires some survivor skills to be noticed and stridor needs to not counter iron will, then she will be fine.
You're missing my point.
If she's faking it or phasing is a guess. If you put yourself in a situation where your guess as to whether or not she's phasing determines if you get hit or not, you misplayed.
You are trying to react to what she's doing, instead of making her react to what you're doing. That is the difference that puts you in a guess situation or a mind game situation.
You want to force a mind game situation. You need to be pro-active, not reactive.
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@BigBrainMegMain said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/PMI5AZ54FGO2/randos-png.png
Does this sum your thread up?
This is the experience I have as well, but I think the reason this is actually happening is because when you're on killer most the survivors aren't actually randoms.
In other words, the worse players tend to solo queue and the good players tend to SWF much more. This is what creates the very polarizing experiences. Either really bad groups or great groups, without much in the middle.
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The first problem is people misunderstanding two definitions.
Guessing and Mind game:
mind game
a series of deliberate actions or responses planned for psychological effect on another, typically for amusement or competitive advantage
guess
estimate or suppose (something) without sufficient information to be sure of being correct.
-----------------------------------------
If you are providing fake information to mislead the other player it is a mind game, not a guess. Guess would be like when you are circling a high wall on an M1 killer and just guessing if they are gonna throw the pallet or keep running through it. In that loop no information was provided.
Now interactions with Spirit can be guessing, but that's if you play the interaction wrong. Sprinting to a window or pallet and you fast vault over. The Spirit immediately begins phasing and now you slow vault over. That was a mind game, not a guess. Before someone mentions it, no you don't slow vault over if she's phasing (or faking it) right in front of the vault, this is when she's further back. If you're ever slow walking to confuse her, you slow walk away from her husk just in case she is faking it.
The point here is that you force interactions that are mind games and not put yourself in a position that is a guess. If you run to a loop, let her stand at the pallet and you're at the outside of the loop, you just made a misplay and put yourself in a guessing situation.
This is why people like to call her OP. Her counter play is the survivor knowing how to get into the Spirits head and manipulate what she is hearing and seeing. Also making sure they force their interactions to be a mind game, not a guess.
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Pretty much the fix I had in mind. It only works for the person using it and as a downside it will no longer open for the last person. This prevents a 2 escape at the end with it.
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@zoozoom6 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1496733#Comment_1496733
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/WFYDDHMW96NN/my-image.png
i figured out how to sen the image. but to answer you (it may have been hard to understand without the visual aid i meant to go along with it) not too many but the ones on the bottom need to be buffed
Ah I see. I generally agree with most of that.
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So what you're saying is that too many killers have counters that are too easy or barely need much countering at all? If that is what you're saying then I agree.
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@Hippie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1496630#Comment_1496630
Well, many maps have low wall loops that look nice and provide variety. For example, Mother's Dwelling and Temple of Purgation. And maps with LOS blockers everywhere generally aren't favorable for most Killers, so I think adding more LOS blockers wouldn't be very fair.
I actually disagree. LOS blockers help the killer. This is one of the reasons why the indoor maps generally favor killers. It also now allows the killer to mind game the loop. It would be an improvement for killers.