Blueberry
Blueberry
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Buff
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Grabs in general haven't been working well for ages. Essentially since dedicated servers.
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Very map dependent.
You have to make her guess your play by juking when she loses line of sight of you.
If you're out in the open without a lot of sight blockers you're just dead against a good nurse.
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@SirCracken said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1568836#Comment_1568836
Oh for sure. He could get lots of QoL improvements like having 2 of his brown add-ons, the rat tail and liver, being basekit among loads of other things.
But although there's way more things that need to be tweaked, I'd like it if he got a rework similar to Freddy's that adjusts his power to be more like it was originally intended to be.
Agree on the brown addons.
While I'd love that type of rework to do with him like they did Freddy I just don't see that ever happening.
They save those types of reworks for heavily flawed or problematic killers that aren't performing well. I think that generally speaking, they consider Demo one of the most balanced killers and in a good spot unfortunately. Another big decider is if survivors dislike facing him and unfortunately again, he usually makes most survivors top 3 favorites to face.
There are still a few killers that are actually in that badly designed spot and are probably on the radar for those types of reworks instead.
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They're already shot this idea down in the past as survivors would use it to troll their teammates.
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@SirCracken said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1568819#Comment_1568819
Apparently his entire power was going to be much more like his on-screen depiction. With survivors being able to be dragged into the upside down and having to track him in the real world by way of flickering lights around the map. But this was sadly scrapped due to time contrasts.
I think the Demo we have now is the flawed result of the design shortcut that was taken when he was being worked on.
Interesting. I'd never actually heard about that until now if it's true. That would indeed explain a lot.
I still think what we have now can be salvaged with some small tweaks. That other design would've been so much fun though that's for sure.
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@SirCracken said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1568794#Comment_1568794
Maybe some development time could be put into making an in-game tutorial in how to best counter all the killers in the game? And likewise for how to play as them effectively?
This may help the frustrations that people have against her and other killers they're having trouble with. Not to mention this being a long overdue feature.
Sounds like a challenging development, but I like the idea if they can.
Another interesting side note that I think relates to this topic though.
While Spirit may have gone a little too far in the "not intuitive" enough direction, I think we can also see some flawed development in the complete opposite direction in the form of Demogorgon.
Demo takes the complete opposite route which is where the counter play and what he does is spoon fed way too heavily. Everything he does is not only heavily telegraphed to the person in chase but to the entire team, to where they all know what he's doing at almost all times. IE such as needing to tell everyone every time he teleports to lookout instead of just knowing to watch out. There are quite a few other things as well though.
This is what leads to a lot of people generally thinking Demo looks extremely strong on paper from his tool kit, but for some reason always feels much weaker in practice. It's because he gives too much information (feedback). Exemplified even more as I said earlier because he gives it to the entire team.
He needs a reduction in feedback.
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@SirCracken said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1568770#Comment_1568770
I'd still argue that her power is just a weaker version of Nurses with less feedback. As far as I'm concerned when going up against a good Spirit, if I'm at risk of being downed when she uses her power and I have to try and mindgame her to get away I'm very engaged with the chase.
I'm not sure how people find predicting and conditioning an opponent to be boring in of itself. So I'm l'd be surprised if playing a different way was why so many people hate going against her.
I guess I should've been more specific. I don't think the "idea" of having to play differently is why they don't like her.
It's that they literally can't understand/figure it out. The vast majority of players still just circle a loop looking for feedback from her and then get upset that "she has no counter play" when they just tried to play against her like every other killer.
I think that the counter play to her that we described requires more game knowledge/critical thinking from knowing how a lot of the game works and the average player base I believe is around rank 10 or lower.
So I suppose in saying this I could see a fair argument that maybe her counter play is "fair" but not intuitive enough to pick up quickly for newer players. I could see that view point as pretty rational.
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@SirCracken said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1568740#Comment_1568740
This is the correct way to try and mindgame a Spirit. But it's not possible to tell when she starts phasing, and thus when you should start making her guess without guessing yourself. Which I think is why so many people don't like about facing her.
This is where I think people underestimate the power of holding W. She's extremely slow without using her power so she is going to waste ages chasing after you if she doesn't use her power to run you down. In this scenario you don't care about telling whether she is phasing or not. If she uses it to catch up then now you know she is phasing. If she faked it then you just left her standing there like an idiot while you leave. Also the fact that while holding W you will leave her TR very quickly so you will be able to know if she's actually phase chasing you almost instantly. People are trying to sit at a loop and mind game her which is where they lose as that was a mistake in the first place.
I think the reason people actually hate her is because she forces you to play completely differently from the other killers and people don't like adapting. She also puts much more of the outcome into how good the Spirit is and less into did I just mess up. Which is inverse to like 80% of the killer roster where much more of the outcome is how good the survivor is and did they mess up.
The way many survivors feel facing a "good" Spirit is how 80% of the killer roster feels facing "good" survivors.
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@SirCracken said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1568626#Comment_1568626
True, you can just stand still as Spirit and potentially get downs... against low skill survivors.
Like any mindgame, if you constantly choose to do the same thing over and over again your opponent will eventually get wise and start anticipating you. Survivors will start to predict you standing still, or phasing just after standing still, and use that knowledge to better break line of sight and gain distance. So the tactic of just standing still and phasing won't work against survivors who know what they're doing which is what the game should be balanced around.
What I mean by feedback is the reactions that the survivor gets when a killer uses their power. Lets take Nurse using her power:
- She starts charging a blink, allowing survivors to know how far she'll teleport.
- She blinks after charging which survivors can clearly see and hear.
- She reappears with a 2 second time window before she goes into fatigue
- She attacks
Everything about Nurse's power can be quickly analysed to judge how to best avoid it. But with Spirit's power:
- She starts phasing, with no clear signs for survivors to know when she starts if they're being chased by her.
- She reappears and attacks
Although there's a lot more technicalities going on when going against Spirit she has very little feedback compared to Nurse, despite being a weaker version of her. There's still a lot of skill involved in using her. But less ways to tell what she's doing.
Just a point on Spirit.
I think the issue about her not giving feedback is actually backwards. She makes you play the opposite of the other killers, which is getting feedback and then reacting.
With Spirit if you get put in that situation you are going to feel like there's no counter play because you are trying to react without getting any feedback.
What you're supposed to do is act first. Not after her. You then force her to react to your feedback. This is putting the "guessing" on her instead of yourself. I put guessing in quotes because I think it's more of a mind game because you are giving her false information(feedback) to react to.
I think if you are waiting for feedback against Spirit you have already played against her wrong and lost the chase.
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It's all just muscle memory and playing the game long enough to predict movement, that's it.
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@SCP_FOR_DBD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1568697#Comment_1568697
Thats fair, I just didn't want to deal with NOED.
That's understandable, but for future games if it's ever a camp fest you should just rush gens.
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Ignored the totems and finished the last gen. If he facecamped that hard then you still had almost all the pallets on the map left up so easy loops while the other teammate rescues and opens the gate. Or he just stays at the guy on the hook while y'all both open the gate and leave. You gave him that second kill for free by looking for totems.
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There's a lot of people that do that.
Especially to form their opinion from what they said and believe it so strongly as to come on the forums and argue with people that actually have experience with it.
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Second chance perks.
There happens to be much more of them on the survivor side, but I want them all heavily nerfed/reworked on both sides. I think they're way too strong to where they overshadow the other perks that exist and are simply unhealthy for the game in general.
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One of the main issues I saw was that he's assuming the killers are playing them near perfectly, like top 1% players...kinda like he says is an irrelevant topic in regards to survivors because those survivors that are that good are the top 1% which you rarely see supposedly.
Seems kinda one sided to mention balance problems from the survivor side assuming a 1% killer but we don't assume 1% survivors when looking at it from the killer side.
If we're gonna assume just decently good survivors when looking at it from the killer side, let's also assume just decently good killers when looking at it from the other. In which case a lot more counter play shows up imo.
Not saying whether I agree or disagree on the balance design of those 2 killers per say, but simply poking holes is some of the reasoning he chose to use. I feel while he may have some good points on the topic, he exaggerates the issues a little. More so with Spirit imo.
Ironically how a lot of survivors feel playing against a good Spirit, is how about 80% of the killer roster feels to play against good survivors, for oddly enough the near same reasons as well.
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I'd swap Tinkerer for STBFL and Surveillance with Corrupt for more early time to get a set up of tunnels.
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@BillyBigBrainBoi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1561970#Comment_1561970
Not really, I play on red ranks - Xbox one - South America
And I RARELY go against top tier players, maybe that's your experience, now I ask you, why should we balance around your experience?
"I disagree. You're talking about balancing for bad players. Most games don't do this. They balance around the high tiers."
I never said we should balance around bad players, if anything we should balance around G O O D, you hear me GOOD killers and survivor, but not top tier players, and if anything this isn't even good, cause this game is already hard enough for newbies players.....
Only esports game balance around top tier, and that's why they are "esports", do you ever think dbd is going to be a esports? lol.
"I want to lose because I was outplayed"
If you lost, you were outplayed, if they used things that are intended by devs, then you got outplayed, if they cheated, then no.
Are they balanced? Maybe no, and they need to be fixed.
"now I ask you, why should we balance around your experience?"
I actually already answered this question.
"Losing at lower ranks when it's balanced around high ranks means you lost because you simply weren't very good and need to improve. Losing at high ranks when you're balancing around low ranks leaves you losing because the game isn't balanced, not because you played badly. The difference is one outcome is in your control, the other is not. I like a game where the outcome is determined by my skill."
As i said above, if you balance for high ranks that will mean low rank lose because of their skill. That is a fair reason to lose and something they can improve on. It is within their control.
"I never said we should balance around bad players, if anything we should balance around G O O D, you hear me GOOD killers and survivor, but not top tier players, and if anything this isn't even good, cause this game is already hard enough for newbies players....."
When I say balancing around high tiers I am talking about "G O O D" players, not League of Legends champion players. We currently are not even remotely balancing around "G O O D" players.
"If you lost, you were outplayed, if they used things that are intended by devs, then you got outplayed, if they cheated, then no."
Not even remotely. That is just a complete logical fallacy. Just because you lost with something intended by the devs does not mean you were outplayed. That is just wrong.
"Are they balanced? Maybe no, and they need to be fixed."
You literally just agreed with my whole premise.
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1561951#Comment_1561951
Bingo.
What early game slowdown mechanic? I don't think i have seen anything about it.
Will it be in the game by 2025?
They mentioned they were working on an "end game collapse" for the the start of the match to slow it down some.
But yeah, 2025 seems about right.
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@BillyBigBrainBoi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1561854#Comment_1561854
And why should we exactly CARE and balance around 0,1 top tier players?
They're 1 out of 100 games, we just are humans and remember the game where we got outplayed, and forget the one where we destroyed the survivors/killers.
Devs are NEVER ever going to balance around 0,1 top tier players, this is a C A S U A L game, they're not going to screw their game, and their playerbase, cause im sure you and me are not even in the 0,1 top tier. Even a top tier player like Scott Jund is against this idea
Because those matches are much more prevelant at rank 1 than it is for most other people. IE it impacts my experience more than the average player which is why I care about it more than the average player.
"They're 1 out of 100 games, we just are humans and remember the game where we got outplayed, and forget the one where we destroyed the survivors/killers."
I don't agree with that number even remotely.
"Devs are NEVER ever going to balance around 0,1 top tier players, this is a C A S U A L game, they're not going to screw their game, and their playerbase, cause im sure you and me are not even in the 0,1 top tier. Even a top tier player like Scott Jund is against this idea"
I disagree. You're talking about balancing for bad players. Most games don't do this. They balance around the high tiers.
Losing at lower ranks when it's balanced around high ranks means you lost because you simply weren't very good and need to improve. Losing at high ranks when you're balancing around low ranks leaves you losing because the game isn't balanced, not because you played badly. The difference is one outcome is in your control, the other is not. I like a game where the outcome is determined by my skill.
I want to lose because I was outplayed, not because it wasn't a fair match.
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First step is shrinking most maps by at least 25%. Then get rid of all the loops that can be chained together abusively. Don't let the survivors spawn spread out and on top of gens.
That with the early game slow down mechanic they're adding should be enough.
I like the idea of it being the killers job to pressure gens to prevent them from going fast, but the issue is that the majority of maps are simply too large and too safe for most killers to be able to do that.
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Not having fun verse a SWF is worse than any reward they could offer. I'd simply rather just have a fun and fair game.
Sounds radical I know.
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@BillyBigBrainBoi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1561726#Comment_1561726
I use it a lot on high mobility killers and I get a good value of it.
Thing is, you focus way too much on 0,1% top survivor, why should I exactly care about them when 99% of the survivor playerbase are trash/average? I rarely go against a top tier swf, I use perks to have fun, and if I get a top tier swf, most of the time i get 1/2k and 2k is a balanced game for me.
"Thing is, you focus way too much on 0,1% top survivor,"
Because otherwise I can win regardless. I care about the matches where those perk choices mean the difference between winning and losing, not the matches that it doesn't matter.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1561676#Comment_1561676
30 seconds is a bit much I feel, especially for killers that have insta down potential, 16 seconds is more than enough time to sneak up on survivors working on the gen that is almost complete.
Most the killers with insta down potential are quite loud and you can hear them prior anyway. Also, feels bad ruining a perk for all killers because of just a couple. 16 is barely enough. On most maps it's rendered useless because you can see them coming anyway.
The payoff just seems so situationally good to where it's not worth the slot.
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Still feels really weak to me. The Undetectable needs to be like 30 seconds imo. Currently feels just too short.
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Boring = They got destroyed and/or couldn't bully you
Generally the case imo. It's usually just them being salty.
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Nothing about playing killer is distressing unless we're talking super low ranks or we're on one of the few top tier killers.
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Should've been secret offerings.
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Missed opportunity for Blights break animation to be him pulling out a vial and splashing it over the pallet as the acid melts it away.
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They said all killers will have one so yes, it just wasn't implemented yet for the PTB. It should be there on live.
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No, it's not good enough to be a hex. This could be said for most the games hex's though.
Even if it wasn't a hex it's still pretty mediocre as good survivors will just use the speed burst to go to a different loop. 15 seconds is also extremely short.
The fact that it also has a cooldown on top of all these other issues is just baffling.
Hex's are such an extremely high risk choice that their pay off needs to be near overpowered to warrant taking that risk. Most the hex perks in the game including this one just aren't even remotely near this. They're high risk/low-average reward.
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This is the biggest issue for survivors at the moment.
Between a broken ranking system making it way too easy for survivors to rank up and the terrible rank reset change preventing people from going down, it has led to a pile up of survivors at high ranks that have no business being there.
This leads to you getting on average, a lot of teammates that shouldn't be in your games at all and don't know what they're doing.
Side note from the main topic, but this is also what gave us long queue times for low rank killers and "high rank" survivors. There is an uneven distribution in ranks between killer and survivor.
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It's not even remotely broken and we aren't going into a hex meta.
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I actually love this idea.
Another I had was making it increase footstep sounds when walking/running.
Inversely Lightweight would also quiet walking/running footstep sounds.
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@SquirrelKnight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1555886#Comment_1555886
The meta isnt changing, not because new perks are all bad. Its because the big meta perks for survivor are SO overwhelmingly good that it makes all new perks seem bad in comparison. "Is this better than DS+Unbreakable? No? Then its trash."
^ This guy gets it.
There are a lot of weak perks that need improvements, but in general so many of them just look bad because the meta perks are just on a completely other level of power that makes everything else look bad by comparison.
Hypothetically if all the second chance/Exhaustion perks disappeared tomorrow we'd side a large variety in perks being used.
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@Sheridan_LT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1554912#Comment_1554912
I appreciate your input, hence why I put that useful "None" section in there. And I tend to agree with you, except Facecamping which I do feel strongly about, but EVEN then it usually doesn't benefit a KIller and punishes them in the long run with being bored out of their minds and low bloodpoints.
If facecamping were more common I would consider it an issue. The only reason I don't is because it's insanely rare. I mean I see someone get facecamped literally maybe once every 30 games? If that. I typically think a lot of people consider scenarios facecamping that really aren't.
Also as you mentioned, when they do facecamp they are basically throwing the entire game and losing just for that 1 kill. So even when it's done it isn't a winning strategy that benefits them, it just lets them get their anger out on that one person.
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We must be playing different games because I disagree with everything in this post.
Those 3 new perks aren't even remotely OP. Most of them even need improvements.
Survivors are also still very much the power role in this game.
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I'd be really curious to see some current stats on average game lengths by rank.
I'd wager they are much shorter than 15min.
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15min seems like a pretty fair time to aim for.
Enough time for a lot of fun interactions without it getting drug on too long.
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BT is one of the top 3 best perks in the game so this seems like an easy one.
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I really wish there was a "none of the above, they're all bad". The Nurse and Billy addons are the closest to being decent with everything else being near meme worthy.
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The perk is just really bad. I didn't see a good option for my recommendation. Even making it a non hex perk it would still be mediocre.
Non hex and make it block pallets outside of your TR would be a bit more useful and worth considering.
The fact someone thought this was not only good, but good enough to warrant being a hex is highly concerning.
This will only seem strong against new players that have no idea what they're doing but garbage against actual good players. This is the complete opposite of the design perks should have.
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Both shouldn't have had a cooldown to begin with. Completely unnecessary negatives.
TT would need a limit to 1 activation per down so it can't be spammed, but that's it.
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None of these are really issues.
The only real issue on survivor side is a bad ranking system and a broken rank reset that leads to lots of survivors being boosted to ranks they shouldn't be at. This leads to you getting on average, quite bad/potato teammates that don't know what they're doing.
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What are you considering playing sweaty on the killer side? I literally can't think of a single thing that would give me that impression if I was on survivor.
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Given how many issues he's got I'm thinking around 3 weeks. Generally 2-3 weeks though.
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@Pryzm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1551238#Comment_1551238
First, that is the story of all hex perks. I just lost Ruin in the first 30 seconds of my last match. Just wasted a perk slot. But, with a 6 second aura site, you can mitigate those chances. Add in the idea that if you are running HG and Undying, there is a 66% chance the first one cleared is HG. Then there is another 66% chance the next HG is cleared. The odds are in your favor. That is very strong, added to the aura site, too strong IMO. I'm more thinking about solo que. We are already seeing a drop in solo que compared to last year. It is harder and harder to compete in it. I don't want to face SWF every game. We keep making solo que harder, we only hurt ourselves, then we cry about gen rushes.
"First, that is the story of all hex perks."
Which is why most hex perks are bad.
"Add in the idea that if you are running HG and Undying, there is a 66% chance the first one cleared is HG. Then there is another 66% chance the next HG is cleared."
You need consistency against good survivors, not a luck roll as to whether you win or not.
"But, with a 6 second aura site, you can mitigate those chances."
With the time it takes to cleanse the totem and the time it takes you to walk over there, in most scenarios the totem will be gone before you can make it.
"We are already seeing a drop in solo que compared to last year."
I don't actually think we are. Link the stats you are referencing please.
"It is harder and harder to compete in it."
How so? I don't think solo queue is in a bad place at all. Our only current issue is the current ranking system and the bad rank reset change they implemented artificially boosting people to ranks they shouldn't be in.
I feel like you're under the assumption that solo queue survivor is weak at the moment. A sentiment that I vehemently disagree with.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1551165#Comment_1551165
I would argue Dh and Ruin are both very good. Ruin in fact is incredibly powerful. Maybe not as good as it used to be, but really good. Admittedily, perks like Lullaby or Third Seal won't see an increase in usage, but Ruin in particular will benefit from the perk.
Actually, I feel like every map has quite good totem spawns, when hidden well. Jungle jyms for example have a nice hiding spot for totems. In general I find the totem spawnsto be fairly good, with certain exceptions.
Ruin is like barely passable to me. It's good, but good enough for the fact it's a hex? Not to me. Especially not with how most maps have terrible totem spawns imo.
Yeah if it's hid super well that it lasts for minutes into a game that ends up being pretty decent, but that is just extremely rare. Most games it's gone in less than a minute. Against good survivors you need consistency, not luck. Which I would say is not in your favor based on what I said before.
"Actually, I feel like every map has quite good totem spawns, when hidden well. Jungle jyms for example have a nice hiding spot for totems. In general I find the totem spawnsto be fairly good, with certain exceptions."
I just disagree with this completely. I think the vast majority of maps are god awful with spawns to where if the survivors are even semi decent that totem will be gone extremely fast.
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@Pryzm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1551185#Comment_1551185
I'm not sure if you are kidding or not here. Imagine Undying with HG. You could literally run through HG 3 times. Not including seeing auras for 6 seconds.
You are picking a rare and absolute best case scenario.
You lose Undying as your first hex and now you just gave up a perk slot for literally nothing. It is a high risk/high reward gamble you are making. Against good survivors you need consistency not luck.
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It seems weak to me.