Stop basing your opinions completely on what streamers and youtubers say.
Don't you have any sense of reflection? Do you just hear what they say and take it as granted? Are you incapable of thinking for yourself?
Its okay to take their opinions into account and formulate your own. What is not okay is to take their opinion and put them into a pedestal, spam their videos and take everything they say in them as an axiom.
Yes, I know it is a player a 100 thousand hours in the game, yes, I know it is a player that knows how to play very optimally, yes, I know it is a player that can 4k as clown 100 games in a row, does that make everything he says about the game true? No. Learn to think critically.
Thanks for listening to my rant.
Tagged:
Trusted
Comments
Totally agree, I’m not a huge fan of sourcing other people’s opinions like it proves a fact. It’s fine to reference a streamer’s argument, but people shouldn’t take them as objective fact.
im tired of posts that go “thing A has no counterplay, see look at this streamer that agrees with me so it’s true”
If you agree, how would you be able to tell the difference? Maybe people agree with the streamer because their opinions/experiences/outlooks match. Maybe no one takes them seriously but they know the streamer with 10k live viewers that has the same opinion may have more influence and their opinions given more weight.
Given that many of these people literally play the game as a full time job, and even by your own admission have ungodly hours of experience, maybe you should listen to them, or rather, maybe BHVR should - especially if/when they all agree. I'm not sure who you're referencing or why but yea.
Does BHVR actually have employed playtesters? Serious question, I'm not talking about Devs who implement and play their lunch idea for 10 minutes and think it's great. The number of bugs and often bad decisions makes it seem unlikely.
Thank god someones talking about this. I like hearing what people like Otz and Scott have to say but if someone sends me one more video with no other context and says something like "They've done this for how long, I think they know a little more than you do pal!" I'm gonna lose it.
Most people tend to watch content creators if their personality/opinions align with their own.
Take Scott for example, he is one of the most analytical when it comes to DBD, he has always been open about his opinions on killers like Spirit yet still attempts to remain objective in his videos. People who always agree with what he says may not be agreeing because he is their favorite streamer, but because his views match their own. I fall into this category myself.
bUt iT's THe smALl pEepEE BuILd aNd iT's ABuSe
No streamer will convince me that Corrupt Intervention is worth running on most Killers. :P
I agree. Learn to think critically. And a large portion of critical thinking is analysing which opinions have the most weight, and who is coming to the table with the most experience and facts. Which, like it or not, is usually the people who play the game for a living and genuinely attempt to critically analyse the situation presented to them.
Well actually no matter how much experience you have you can never eliminate your own bias. Content creators' words should always be taken with a grain of salt because like regular players they have a personal agenda and will say or do things in a way that benefits their agenda. Critical analyse is for the individual, and should never be delegated completely to someone else.
You will never be able to convince people to make a sound decision on their own. Too many people are far too lazy to get better at something or research something on their own. They just jump on bandwagon hate trains or any other hot take mimic'd my others who had similar experiences.
"Deathslinger beat me, I couldn't tell when he was going to shoot, not fun, boring." You hear this over and over. Something new I am seeing is that survivors who claim that "boring" doesnt mean a weak killer that is easy to beat, is that they try to say Nurse and Huntress are "fun" to go against.
Yeah new Nurse is "fun" to go against I bet. They wouldn't be saying that with old Nurse. What's "fun" for survivors are extremely high skill cap killers who survivors know are few and far between. Majority of Nurses they will go against are going to be a joke, majority of Huntresses they go against won't hit all their hatchets.
What's "boring" to survivors are killers who remove or make it very difficult to use standard looping tactics against. Killers SHOULD be the power role, but they aren't. Survivors shouldn't be able to ever loop a killer forever, its a 4v1 not a 1v1. Too many survivors think they should be able to 1v1 a killer at all times, otherwise the killer is "boring".
There's a lot of people that do that.
Especially to form their opinion from what they said and believe it so strongly as to come on the forums and argue with people that actually have experience with it.
Sadly it is only because you dont have any option to slow the game down at the start so its only there by default
I suspect they're right that Corrupt Intervention is a good perk to give yourself extra time in the beginning of the match to get someone down before any gens are done. I don't run it though because it just seems kind of dull, especially when they just go into hiding or start cleansing totems or looking for chests and it might take a bit to find them depending on how good they are at slinking around and how good you are at finding hiding survivors. Personally I prefer Whispers because it serves a similar purpose, getting you into a chase very quickly at the start of the match, but it also gets the action going quickly more consistently and can be used at the end game to find the last one or two survivors who might be hiding from you.
That all applies though mainly to killers who are intentionally trying to get into chases immediately. With a killer that wants setup time like Hag or Trapper or maybe Demogorgon I can see Corrupt Intervention having more value.
This problem is not even restrictive to dbd. So many people eat up every word that e-celebs say like it's the new gospel.
Except that personal agenda doesn't mean "I want killers/survivors to be the superior." Unlike random individuals on forums, many content creators have built themselves on the concept of "fair play." If it is someone's bias that the game should in fact be fair and fun for everyone, and they stake their income on that concept, then clearly their opinions hold more weight than others.
They stake their income on entertaining content. That doesn't necessitate being fair and fun for everyone, nor should you ever assume that this is what someone's bias favors. I guess maybe you could find out what their bias favors after studying their content for a long time, but in that case you critically analysed that person so of course you can trust their motives.
People agree with streamers most of the time because they have the best knowledge and experience in the game than most players. You shouldn't believe everything they say, but you should try to acknowledge that what they say could be true/false.
I was actually debating making this same thread earlier today, I just find it rather annoying when people say stuff like just watch Tru3 or Jund or Paulie or Cows or whoever, If people defended their own points instead of just pointing to content creators with similar opinions it would make discussions a lot more useful, sure you could give a video/clip as supportive evidence, but don't just use that and expect it to be enough, and likewise don't just make new threads parroting whatever their newest content claims, You can definitely bring it up sure, but I see so many threads that basically act as summarys.
But the streamer is a Fog Whisperer. lmao
Streamers behaviors and opinions heavily influenced this community. May as well make peace with that fact because you can’t change it.
I don't mind people using streamers opinions to back their view up. What I hate is this annoying mentality of WELL SCOTT JUND SAID IT SO ITS TRUE!
Exactly
Whilst some streamers do make good, valid points, it's all based on their objective point of view. No matter how many hours someone puts in, they will only ever have their own experience, which will differ from other players.
Also, despite how many hours they've played they can become "blind" to certain ways of thinking. For example, in my line of work in the health sector, a fresh set of eyes often can solve problems that people with years of experience have not. Familiarity breeds contempt, and such.
I completely agree with OP. Take ideas from your own play and various sources. Experiment. A Youtuber is just one opinion, regardless of how many hours they've played.
Tru3 is a Fog Whisperer yet most survivors hate him because he doesnt spew the pro-survivor rhetoric that a lot of Fog Whisperers do. He plays both killer and survivor equally, and points out flaws on both sides.
However any Fog Whisperer killer main that thinks SWF isn't a big deal or offers a massive advantage, or that 2 escape 2 kill is fair is considered a "good" killer.
100% agree.
I feel like many of these individuals who post these videos aren’t really trying to validate a point, because they are either so lazy to actually explain their own view that is like one sentence and a link to a video.
It almost makes it feel like they are more trying to use these streamer’s platform as a validation point than actually trying to form an opinion of their own.
“I play the game but I am bad so I’m going to hand you over to Joe who has 10000 hours in the game and they know more than you”. 😂
Nothing objective about a guy with what...7000+hours playing what amounts to a party game suggesting changes that would outright kill it for a majority of the current playerbase.
You can try to be objective and I say that as a guy who's views on balancing align with his but you won't be.
If I find a youtuber that agrees and has similar views does not mean I'm following them blindly.
Are you referring to me well here you go:
My point all in one thread I wouldnt even mind if you outright @'d me. I have 2.5k - 3k hours ik what I'm talking about. Although its frustrating to repeat a point to people who disagree with you.
I've never heard tru3 speak negatively or point out any flaws on the killer side recently only survivor side quite odd dont you think?
It is nothing wrong on it, to learn from streamers. They have much more experience usually as the casual gamer.
I have as example learn many things from Monto's how to videos and at least in parts it had bring me 1 time too the red ranks (well and having enough time and patience for it).
But nobody should make the error and just agree on everything they say. Think critical. If that is true what they saying, if they maybe saying it to push out their own agenda etc.
It is always bad if you just hang around with people that agree with you, because then you will never grow up mentaly.
I am as example, a 100% killer main, but even I have often talk with survivors about their thoughts.
Why should I not? That had make out me a better killer (if I think on killrates), less raging about survivors, I understand them better and many I could also told my point of view as killer. Things like this are a win-win-win-win situation.
I like such situations.
That are just my 2 cents to it :).
No it's not odd at all really, survivors are the power role and need nerfs. Too many killers are weak at the higher level. You just don't like to hear it.
No optimal swf is the power role not survivors. There are alot of weak killers that need buffs. Survivors need buffs and qol you domt like to hear that.
You shouldn't comment if you are gonna have a bias towards killers. You dislike anything survivor related and are ok with the devs neglecting the survivors.
Dont say tru3 points out flaws with both sides it's only killers even though killers have many flaws.
Dude it's not just optimal SWF, any SWF in red ranks is going to have an advantage over the killer. I agree that survivors do need some basic QoL changes, but not buffs overall. You can't buff solo survivor without making SWF stronger.
And dont talk to be about bias, you are incredibly bias yourself. I play killer more than survivor yes, so I see a lot of the problems killers face at the higher ranks. Everyone agrees that killer is way more stressful and difficult at the higher levels than survivor, so whenever anyone wants to buff survivors further I take it as a joke.
I know solo queue sucks, but lets be real, almost every single match will have at least 2 SWF in it. I don't even remember the last time I had a full solo queue match in red ranks.
I agree.
Ok sure every swf has an advantage due to map wide communication. Thst does not mean they can loop optimally. Not every swf is an optimal death squad which is what you are assuming and implying. You cant nerf self without nerfing solo. The best course of action is to by off solo to swf level then buff killers to compensate.
I am not bias myself I favor survivor over killer but I always play rank 1 killer to understand kille problems and see what they struggle with to make my views more objective rather than subjective. Survivors do need buffs that's the thing for one if a map like shelter woods is chosen their should be a guaranteed jungle gym I've had variations with zero that's not fair considering the bad pallets.
That's the reason you rarely see solo, solo sucks and playing with friends is better and more fun
TRUE
Your suggested buff to survivors seems more a problem with the tile strength formula the game uses moreso than anything else, yes, getting a map with nearly nothing to work with is extremely annoying as survivor, as is getting Shack into Jungle gym into cowtree as killer, the system itself I think is the problem more than anything else.
As a Hag main I can promise you Corrupt Intervention is not mandatory even though it’s super powerful.
No I am not assuming and implying that every SWF is a death squad. But every SWF will have an inherent advantage due to communication. The better the rank survivors in that SWF the bigger the advantage.
You are very bias, no matter what you say, your posts and responses make it evident. You want to be able to 1v1 every killer in the game otherwise you deem them "boring", this game is a 4v1, I said it in your last thread. Lets say you are as skilled as you say, if every survivor in your team was you, you would escape every game because the killer would never be able to catch any of you. How is that even fair or fun? The killer should be, and needs to be stronger and have an advantage over a singular survivor.
I agree with your map statement, too many maps at the moment are terrible for killer, way too big. Some are bad for survivor, The Game, etc.
Rank 1 solo survivor I sweat way less, and its way less stressful than rank 1 killer. I agree playing with your friends is fun, but you cannot deny the unbalance that brings.
You don't need to loop optimally, drop the pallet early and if he breaks run to the next one. don't try to play for fun, don't open chests just hold m1 and W for distance, It's not rocket science, there's more than enough defensive ressources in most maps.
I do have a sense of reflection. But when i have played this game for 1000 hours and have problems, and then see streamers who play this game literally AS A JOB have those same problems and talk about how this is a big problem for the game, then i see i'm not the only one with the problem. Then i start to think about it objectively and try to identify the root of the problem. Streamers help validate my opinions, and they often help me provide proof and evidence of my opinions, because of course they do. They are recording every game they play, so its easy for me to look back on their footage and see the evidence of my opinions.
Just because someone posts a streamer video, doesn't mean they are only taking that streamers opinion as fact. They are presenting the streamers experience as evidence because not everyone plays this game for a job and not every records every single match they play.
And that's completely fine as it's supplementary, as the OP put it 'Its okay to take their opinions into account and formulate your own'. I don't think many people would say that this is wrong in any way.
Finally someone says it, thank you dude
Thats not how people treat it though. I have also made posts where i discuss issues i see with the game, experiences i have had and then post a video of a streamer. Suddenly the conversation turns to how "terrible that streamer is" or "posted a streamer game, ignoring the post".
Both sides of the argument have a problem. People need to stop taking streamers words as gospel, but people also need to stop completely ignoring them and pay attention to what they are saying when they present evidence.
I mean yeah, their opinions should both be taken on board as well as critiqued, same as everyone else, also what do you mean by evidence? footage of whatever is being discussed occuring or what?
Generally yeah. The typical thing i see is someone will talk about gen speeds or gen rushing or something of the like, then post of a video of tru3ta1ent. People then spend the time discussing how true is apparently terrible at the game or how they are ignoring the person because they post a true video. I did so a while back and got the same treatment. But people generally are posting these videos as evidence of problems they have also experienced, because, as i said, they aren't recording every game they play.
Tru3 just posted a video of 4 gens being done in 3 minutes. But survivors will say hes #########, and he needs to pressure better. They wont acknowledge how strong SWF is, and splitting up on gens at the start of the game is.
Yeah I've noticed that Tru3's stuff that from the inclusion of one of his clips it just derails the topic, personally I don't like the almost arrogant 'Told ya so' attitude he presents things with, but he has some good ideas and some bad ideas from what I have seen. not sure what could be done to get people to stop either of the things of ignoring points or blindly accepting points just because of who they come from. While it would be nice I don't think much will change.
@azame
I wasn’t referring to anyone specific, OP specifically said “base your opinions completely...” which there are players who come on here post a video and never even bother to discuss any further than the video, leaving those who don’t even watch these people wondering if they ever even bothered to learn/experience through their own trials and errors.
They just want the attention. I would post links but I am not going to gonna name and shame. They are out there.
This was directed at anyone who implies something is right or wrong based on the streamers opinion not through their own experience.
I watch OhTogu for example, do I agree with everything he says? Absolutely not. Do I think he has valid points even on stuff I have brought up on the forums, sure. Doesn’t mean I can’t form my own opinion based on my gameplay experience. Because there may be things (small or big) that don’t really align with my thinking. So I opt not to post videos. In fact I think the only time I have was in my deathslinger post, which wasn’t even anyone that I had heard of before, but they expressed exactly my point and with a video so I posted that. It was later in my thread.
Its not that he's #########, absolutely not, but as soon as he starts losing its immediately fault of the game mechanics and SWF/DH/DS/Stream snipers and its obviously fault of the game, never of the mistakes he makes, blaming it on the genrush boogeyman. If we analyze the game closely, he makes a ton of mistakes in the early and it's not until the third gen pops that he realizes he is seriously ######### up. Plus, to top things of on the crap cake, he was affected by the infamous 99% bloodrage Oni bug.
Do I think that SWF is perfectly fine? No, it can be easily abusable, but you cant keep away people from playing with their friends.