Batusalen
Batusalen
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- Batusalen
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@MrDavidRay said:
That's it. That's the post. We still don't have good counters against camping/tunneling. When is this going to be addressed?
Don't unhook in front of the killer to make tunneling less appealing and if a killer is camping do gens, as with the changes it would punish him even more as now there is no regression perks whatsoever that allows him to regain pressure at the end.
There, your counters, the same ones that have being in the game as forever. You're welcome.
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With the changes in healing and DH, the change to PR is fine. The only thing that they should change is for it to be a "Scourge Hook" perk. I don't see the point of involving RNGesus anymore when it already have another condition and limitations.
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Dude, how many accounts have you made by now to cry about the exact same thing?
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Crying survivor main: "People have already stopped playing dbd because of the enormous changes it has gone through over the past 1-2 years."
BHVR checking the numbers and seeing their playerbase stable with peaks for that period of time:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37OWL7AzvHo -
Would people really prefer to smash their keyboards / controllers keys instead of just pushing one from time to time? Why?
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@AGM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3382486#Comment_3382486
Again I'd make the argument that his zombies are part of his power. And to be perfectly clear, I don't particularly want the interaction removed per se, I actually like the flashlight interactions with Nurse and Artist especially, I just don't understand why Nemesis was left out of the "item X shouldn't disable killer powers" pass.
And as for your point on killers with minions, I assume you mean autonomous, and I'd argue the Knight has minions that are semi-autonomous once locked on, and flashlights do nothing to them.
It just seems inconsistent to me, but I'm willing to admit that I could be in the minority on this. I'd just really love to hear from the devs about their reasoning when choosing to ignore this interaction but not all the others.
I already told you: The other interactions completely nullified the killer's power. That's not the case with Nemesis's zombies. But hey, I won't mind if they removed the interaction with the zombies, too. But they have the right call removing the rest, especially the Hag one.
And no, Knight's guards aren't the same that zombies, starting with the duration they have and that you should send them in while the zombies would do their thing without any input from you. Also, and again, The Knight without the guard would be useless as he doesn't have anything more while Nemesis has.
Now, I don't want to get offtopic too much here, but it just crossed my mind... can you blind Victor? Because if you can, there is no reason for that one to not being also removed.
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@HansLollos2 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3382201#Comment_3382201
Ahh i now get what you mean. But there is a Character that is kinda "into that" too. In the Resident Evil 2 Remake you can find a "nice Picture" of Rebecca Chambers when she was 17 Years old in Weskers Desk. So Wesker is also too much?
As Batusalen said, we are talking about a fictional Psychopaths that turned into a Demon that hunt People in their Dreams. Sorry, but it's a bit silly to complain.
Not only that, but The Huntress background story is literally she raiding villages to kidnap little girls to take care of them over and over because "every time, the girls would waste away and die of cold or starvation or sickness". And all this while killing everyone else in the process, including the girls families... I don't know, this seems pretty bad too. Should BHVR remove her from the game, or because she wasn't getting "physical" it is fine?
Now, that is something worthy to discuss in the "Feedback" forum: Where we draw the moral line on the unacceptable horrific and monstrous things a fictional psychopath killer can do? We must figure out at what point should we start opening our Twitter accounts and tweet about it. Think about it! What is the limit before we grab our digital forks and start a new hashtag to cancel Jason Voorhees? We don't know!...
Sorry, but so dumb 🤣
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Let me get this straight... is this really a complain about a fictional killer being a monster in their lore and because it is a fictional killer monster in their lore they should not be in a game full of fictional killer monsters?
Is this real? Are we canceling fictional psychopaths because they do psychopath things in their fictional worlds now?
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Oh, look! He / They have started picking avatars and confirming emails in his / their multiple crying accounts! It's learning! 🤣
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@AGM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3382359#Comment_3382359
But then why is it flashlights and not something base kit, as they did with Hag? Why is leaving the area, or using teamwork, or actually using a pallet to kill a zombie not appropriate counterplay? Why does one specific item now counter a non-insignificant aspect of (now) only one killer's power? Nemesis' add-ons modify his zombies; does this not make them intrinsically linked?
The real question is... why not? A blinded zombie doesn't have a big impact in you anyway as you can still move, chase, attack, use your real power and everything. In the other cases the flashlight neutralized the power in some way and degree, even more so in the case of the Hag. And if you think about it, a blinded zombie can be an advantage as it is a signal that not only he found a survivor, they are more than probably close to him. And all the things you said there are still an appropriate counterplay to them, but you can also blind them if you have the chance.
I don't know, I don't really mind for them to leave this specific interaction in as long as they maintain it constant in a future (in other words, if they add other killer with "minions" that have eyes, they can also be blinded).
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None of the other powers affected by flashlights have an autopilot and moves around the map without any direct input from you and for basically free, searching and hurting survivors. You can't drop pallets on top of the other powers either because that powers are not a separate entity from you.
I don't mind that zombies are still affected by flashlights as they are technically "extra minions" and not your main power... but for the love of the T-Virus, improve their AI! I'm tired of seeing survivors passing right besides the zombie and it going straight up the other direction the survivor is or simply not detecting him, among other things.
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@rmp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3381395#Comment_3381395
If tutorial is work, why beginner are so week. Tutorial just got one map and one killer with silly AI that is not enought for beginner to learn the game. That is why dbd currently got a lot tunneling and camping, because they don't know the next step for winning the game.
Who wants to search internet for many hour and play with AI all the time just for playing one trail.
You are totally right, tutorial should not be work, the tutorial should be vacation so beginners become months instead of weeks!
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It is funny the amount of new accounts with no avatar, just a few post, and almost always Unconfirmed that has being spawning in the forum recently. And all of them saying the exact same things, coincidentally.
I don't know, Rick...
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@yauniqua said:
*grabs popcorn*
Anyone capping in the replies wanna come back to further embarrass themselves?
I'll be bumping this thread right as the player count drops and BHVR is throwing out Bloodhunts and XP bonuses like it's a parade.
Oh my god, the drama!
They do one survivor nerf along killing all the current meta of the killers and you decide to revive an old post having even less arguments now that you had when you started it.
This is so fun.
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@Justinradtke14 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3381677#Comment_3381677
SO I WILL PUT THIS BIG AND BOLD FOR YOU AS WELL SINCE YOU FEEL THE NEED TO RAISE THE TONE BECAUSE YOU KNOW I'M RIGHT. YOU JUST DON'T WANT THIS PERK TO ACTUALLY BE WORTH A PERK SLOT BECAUSEYOU THINK IT WILL BE TO STRONG. THAT'S ALL IT IS. YOU DON'T WANT THIS PERK TO ACTUALLY BE STRONG.
You're the hypocrite who thinks he's logical who I guarantee isn't running the perk...and won't run it even after the buff. You show a video of Swarm a 10,000 hour DBD player as your justification to this perk being good as if he's the normal average player?
That's not anywhere close to logical. Plus you don't actually do the correct math in any of your examples BTW. The BNP and toolbox throw off all the actual time benefits and make the build "look good."
0.45% of players actually run it because it's NOT WORTH THE PERK SLOT. That's less than half of 1%.
You have to be "right" so you try to "put down" someone else and insult them in the DBD forms? For someone who acts logical you clearly are a fool. God bless.
I won't reply back when you want to get your last word in to make you "feel good" about yourself.
Taking aside all the fallacies and rants... "you don't actually do the correct math in any of your examples"? Oh, boy:
- 1 c/s base repair for one survivor repairing a gen. 90 charges per gen.
- Overzealous min bonus (Dull, Boon): 10% increase on repair = 1.10 c/s | 90 / 1.10 = 81.82 | 90 - 81.82 = 8.18
- Overzealous max bonus (Hex): 16% increase on repair = 1.16 c/s | 90 / 1.16 = 77.58 | 90 - 77.58 = 12.41
So, one survivor with Overzealous would shave off from 8.18 seconds (I said 8.2 to round up) to 12.41 seconds (I said "almost 13" to, again, round up) from repairing time.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3381613#Comment_3381613
Your 8.2 seconds 'saved' is a net loss. You spent 14 seconds on the totem in the first place. You lost ~6 seconds total.
If I start a gen at the same time you play with a totem and immediately do a gen with overzealous, I finish first by about 6 seconds.
If you activate it by blessing a totem with a boon like CoH, it won't be a net loss as you would already invest that time blessing a totem in the first place.
You would gain another benefit for something that you would do anyway. It is really so hard to understand?
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@Justinradtke14 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3381644#Comment_3381644
Thanks for telling everyone that you don't run the perk. Plus only 0.45% of survivors run the perk. People run perks that are actually good.
"Tu Quoque" ? Really? So what you say is "good" and what you actually do doesn't matter. Judging what someone says and what they actually do is the right method.
Nightlight.gg
Swarm runs a BNP, best toolbox in the game, deja vu, potential energy, resilience and overzealous. The BNP and tool box made the build good. Everything else was a net loss in time compared to just doing a generator.
Do the math.
I didn't said it is good now, I said it would be useful when the changes come. And even if that wasn't the case yes, "Tu Quoque", as me not using the perk doesn't mean that what I said isn't right. If you want to prove me wrong do it with arguments, not fallacies.
And whatever you say, even in the build of the video it is still up to 16% repair speed bonus, which means almost 13 seconds of the gen done just thanks to Overzealous. And with the change it would not be a net loss activating it with a boon as you would already invest that time doing it in the first place.
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@Justinradtke14 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3381613#Comment_3381613
How often do you run the perk if it's that good then?
LOL someone should search "Tu Quoque" in google.
But just for fun, the build I said earlier is one that I want to try when the changes are live and here is a solo genrushing build with Overzealous that can do a gen in 32 seconds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WJ4FgD0wYoIf you don't know how to argue against something, just stop answering. Don't go for the fallacies.
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@Justinradtke14 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3381347#Comment_3381347
You're asking a lot for the casual player base...
That's not going to happen. That's why no one is running the perk and no one will run this perk. The blessing buff is insignificant compared to taking one hit from a killer or getting fully infected by a plague, wasting time setting it up, and just to lose all benefit.
There isn't a net positive in time saved by running the perk.
Then the problem is the "casual player base", not the perk.
And there is a net positive if you play to not get hit for multiple gens. If what you want is being the cool kid and try to loop the killer for 5 gen (and fail trying) then yeah, obviously this perk is not for you. If you want to do gens and play more stealthy, then this perk would be pretty useful as it stacks with other progression perks and by itself shaves off 8.2 seconds from a generator.
And now you can have more benefits by pairing it with CoH to activate it, as you would be blessing a totem anyway.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3381381#Comment_3381381
It gives you an item which is being nerfed. How is that anything but a nerf to the perk? It’s an indirect nerf, sure, but it’s still a nerf. The advantage was both getting access to a healing item AND how quickly it healed you.
You can literally buff it and it will still likely be weaker than before, and that’s okay because green medkits were pretty broken tbf. I don’t even necessarily want it to heal you as fast as it did before. Just give it SOMETHING.
I give you a free lollipop. It is an apple flavored lollipop, and you don't like apple. That changes the fact that I gave you a free lollipop?
The advantage of the perk is being able to not bring a medkit but a toolbox, a flashlight or anything at all and be able to get a free medkit more safely the moment you need healing. And that is what the perk would still do after the healing change.
Nerfing the healing doesn't change the functionality or purpose of the perk in any way. Seriously, I think it's not so hard to understand.
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I agree that it would be cool to at least have offerings shared among all survivors or killers, in fact I also suggested this. But after thinking about it, it's not that easy because of how the Bloodweb works right now, as you would be getting a lot of items and offerings.
Maybe they can rework it like a single Bloodweb where you chose what survivor / killer you are going to level up, so you would get the same amount of items as only one survivor / killer is getting right now, but you can use those items with any survivor / killer you want.
The problem with this would be the way prestige level affect rarity of items appearing in the Bloodweb (as now you could get more rare items that you would on low prestige characters) and how make this work for the killers, as they should receive different addons for each one (maybe make it so everytime you start a Bloodweb level for an specific killer you should complete it before changing to another or something like that).
TL;DR: I think it would be a good thing to have, but it would need a rework of the Bloodweb system to limit the amount of items you would get, so I don't think we would get it soon... or at all.
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@Crowman said:
They cater to killers so much that they nuked the top gen regression perks
The game and community have being so survivor sided for so long that now even a balance change for both sides is considered "killer sided" 🤣
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Well, Legion would be one of the most benefited killers with the changes to healing. It would be wise to see how those changes affect him before doing any changes to him.
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@ad19970 said:
This nerf is surely also because of the nerf to healing. So it might be fine, now that killers can slow down matches more by injuring survivors, provided survivors still have enough reason to heal.
This. With the nerf to healing and DH you would down survivors more now, so you would get the effect more often making it do a lot of regression.
The only thing I would change is for it to not be an "Scourge Hook" perk anymore. If it is now token based and limited to the first hook, at least allow for the effect to trigger in any hook.
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@rmp said:
We know that the ability between the beginner and expert have a large distance. But limit the upper bound of expert technique is bad adjustment.
We should raise the lower bound of beginner, so I suggest that we can make the beginner whose devotion lower than 2 get special support.
For example, both survivor and killer get "Windows of Opportunity" to help them being familiar with environment.
Survivor see auras of generators by default, let them know generator location in evey map.
Killer get generator-breaking speed bonus to 20% and 150% regression speed by default, let them have more time to chase survior.
These supports not only shorter the distance between the expert and beginner but also help beginner play the game.
Nerf is not a good way for improving the game.
There is a tutorial, a custom match mode, and a whole internet of information in audiovisual form to shorten that distance from beginner to expert already.
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@Milo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3381350#Comment_3381350
So an indirect nerf to pharmacy. The same way, base healing changes are an indirect nerf to Self-Care.
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As for OP, I like the idea! But I still think they should just revert or semi-revert pharmacy to it's current state (keep the effects, if you're uninjured you can only get a guaruanteed medkit on first search, if injured you get a medkit everytime)
Read above.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3381350#Comment_3381350
A nerf to the item Pharmacy gives you is a nerf to the perk, even if it is indirect.
Stop being pedantic.
Stop being illogical.
The point of the perk is giving you access to healing, for free, whenever you need it while also making it safer to get it.
The advantage of the perk has nothing to do with the healing itself, but to guarantee you have access to it without having to bring your own healing method or depend in RNGesus and is how it will continue to work after the change.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3381333#Comment_3381333
Green medkits will take 24 seconds to heal instead of 10.5. That's a significant nerf to Pharmacy.
That's a nerf to the medkit, not Pharmacy. Pharmacy would allow you to always have a free green medkit at hand even if you don't bring one from your inventory, as it always did.
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I disagree. For the perk to be useful now you only need to pair it with CoH and you would become the "support" of your team. Not only you bring healing buffs, you would get generators done faster. And if it got deactivated, you only need to bless a totem again.
CoH + Overzealus + PT + Toolbox or Medkit and you have a pretty good base to multiple "support" builds centered more in healing or gen progression.
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The perk allows you to come empty handed or with another item, open a chest 80% faster, and get a guaranteed rare medkit for free that you can take with you if you escape.
I don't see how the healing time change affect Pharmacy in any way.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380659#Comment_3380659
In some games right after the patch, maybe.
But the long term effect is that health states are incredibly more valuable. Being healthy is worth roughly half a gen of progress, not directly, but because it'll only be worth healing if both survivors need it, and at that point a 48 second (base) heal to top off both of you is negligibly different from spending that time doing a gen together in 53 seconds (again, with no perks).
Add in perks and it's even more efficient to do gens: sloppy makes a single heal 30s *if* it doesn't get interrupted. Hex: face the darkness alone will do that for free if the killer is afk across the map.
Regardless, being healthy is infinitely more valuable. People will quickly learn to comp drop every pallet and deny any hit whatsoever. Sprint burst to delay the chase at all, pallets to stay healthy, and your team bangs out gens with Prove, resilience, toolboxes, and BNP. I hope you like jigsaw pieces, the 1300s, and joyful gardens. You're going there every match.
It'll be either that or never escape again, because tunneling and camping again get buffed by increasing survivor times. And people will tunnel every game because 'they have to' and 'gens fly' faster than ever before. Shoot, people will tunnel just to deny possible dead hard.
If that sounds familiar, that's how every competitive game of DBD is played.
Regardless, being healthy is infinitely more valuable. People will quickly learn to comp drop every pallet and deny any hit whatsoever. [...] It'll be either that or never escape again
Good. That would mean people would have to learn the game and get good at it instead of relying on the game to make it easy for them. DbD is a competitive game (in a PvP sense, not in a tournament pro level competitive sense) and people should aim to adapt to the game, not for the game to adapt to them so they can "have their fun".
Also, one thing that nobody is saying is that you now knows when the killer is busy chasing someone or not and the progression of gens thanks to the hud icons. In other words, you know when you can spend that extra time healing or when you need to push that gen even if you are injured.
because tunneling and camping again get buffed by increasing survivor times
I don't agree with this part. Tunneling and camping would be as viable as they are right now, and their viability would always depend of how survivors play.
Even now, true tunneling (getting someone right after unhook) is just possible and convenient if someone unhook when you are close. If they do not, with the Endurance and Haste on unhook, it will be better to chase other survivor as the one that got unhooked would make the chase longer. And camping always have being a viable strat because of what I call "over altruism". No matter how impossible the save is, survivor would try to pull it off to the point where a possible 1k transform in a 4k just because they all need to be 4 while going through the exit gates.
Camping would also suffer an extra hit, as now you don't have any regression perks to back you up. If survivors punish the camping by doing gens, you have less chances to be able to recover at the end game. You talk about the importance of stay healthy for survivors, but are not seeing how much gens done is going to hurt the killer now. Every second you spent not chasing survivors and hurting them now is allowing survivors do work that you won't be able to revert. Your main way to pressure survivors would be chasing and hurting them, so by camping you would only be letting them getting more pressure on you that you are inflicting on them. Let's not forget that gen progression won't be nerfed in any way, and even without any perk or a toolbox 3 survivors can do a gen in 42 seconds.
And last but not least, you said it yourself: People would learn to not get hit at all, making more difficult to being not only tunneled or camped, but to be hooked in the first place.
I reaffirm my point: You people are not seeing the bigger picture. Nobody is saying that some additional changes and balancing won't be needed after the patch release, but you all are so focused in the "survivors got nerfed" part that don't even take in count what all of the changes would mean for not only survivors, but killers as well. In paper, it is a well balanced change that would solve a lot of the problems that this game have being suffering for a long time. We will see what happens when it goes live.
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@TigerSnake said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380659#Comment_3380659
And what if they don’t heal and just focus all their energy into slamming the gens and leaving? Think about it, Resilience for the extra boost while injured, Sprint Burst to quickly get to a safe area, playing as safe as possible to prevent the killer from spreading damage. On top of that, medkits will probably still be useful, and We’ll Make It will also help survivors stay healthy. Killers are not gonna do well at all if they’re only left with crumbs as slowdown.
Then they would stay injured and you can easily take some of that gen rushing pressure back, as now you will down them with just one hit. Now it would be easier to apply pressure to survivors, and that pressure would pile on more than before. That's the difference. Before, they can gen rush at the same time they would heal and remove any pressure you could inflict on them in seconds. Now, they would have to chose to pressure the killer or remove some of the pressure the killer have on them.
Also, remember they also changed DH, which means that being injured isn't as safe as it was before, which makes the "injured gen rushing" more risky.
In short, regression wouldn't be as necessary even if they decide to genrush as now you would down them more easily than before and return that pressure to them. At least in theory, we will have to see when the patch is out.
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@Entitled_survivor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380675#Comment_3380675
A safe unhook means that the unhooked person won't get into dying state the first 10 seconds after the person gets unhooked,,you do realize that unless you stand still the person will get the DH but the killer will be free to tunnel you because you were farmed in fron of them or them being too close ?
Isn't that what already happens without any type of reward? Like I said in another post, that has being one of the main reasons people complains about "tunneling" and was there since I started playing as survivor. That won't change whatever the state of DH is.
And hey, maybe survivors will stop to use the basekit BT to shield others instead of getting the hell out of there as now their own mates will go all "You didn't allowed me to get DH!". Another point for the change!
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@theTARNavsky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380474#Comment_3380474
I don't really care about CoB or Overcharge, I never use them (unless for a challenge or something).
However, apart from occasional Jolt, I usually run Pain Res, so that's gonna be a big hit, but I know I'll manage somewhat with Deadlock or whatever.
So yeah, I'm mostly unhappy about the healing changes. I can also be happy for regression to be nerfed as survivor and could say I don't like them as killer. I don't have to have one edgy opinion about the whole update that covers all aspects. All changes are catered to different roles in different ways so I'm gonna have separated opinions about each of them for both roles.
You are wrong in one thing: All changes are catered to compensate for one another and to solve many problems for the game. If you maintain regression but not the healing, the game would be even more unbalance it is right now and viceversa.
Centering just around one part of the changes without seeing the big picture may not be "edgy", but it is obviously biased.
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@Entitled_survivor said:
Can't wait to be farmed in front of the killer without having my own DH active and having to run anti tunnel perks because solos being the monkeys they are will only care about their DH,,,guess those dust collecting bnps and toolboxes are about to be put to use
It would not give those "monkeys" their DH either because it only activates after a safe unhook, so... it's time to learn to not unhook somebody in front of the killer!
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@HansLollos2 said:
Is it possible that the upcoming Patch will change? It's horrible for both sides.
Healing is nerfed and Gen Slowdown Perks too? Who thought that was a good Idea? Now Killers have to deal with a massive Genrush Meta. And on the lower Ranks for new/inexperienced Survivor it will frustrating to play, since its even more killer sided on lower Ranks now. New/inexperienced Survivor don't always do Gens when possible, they get in chases really quick and if they manage to hide/escape for a while, then they barely cant even heal now.
You are not seeing the bigger picture. Gen rushing won't be much of a problem as now survivor would need to spend more time healing, and with the changes to DH chases won't be such a burden. That's why they reduced regression perks to compensate.
For the "inexperience survivors" part that has a pretty easy solution: For them to gain experience. If you are going to quit a game because you can't win in your first days playing it then I think you should not play any PvP game.
@Vultz said:
I exclusive bought Mikaela for the healing boon, and u gonna nerf it so its gonna be useless?! Then i want my money back!!!
Yeah, totally useless. Is not like it is still an infinite source of 50% bonus healing for almost free.
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@MegaFreeman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379882#Comment_3379882
Oh I'm not the blue guy. I'm the green guy. Blue guy is my ######### teammate that just got downed and prevented me from unlocking Dead Hard
And why you want the poor blue guy dead? Don't unhook him in front of the killer so he doesn't goes down the moment he touches ground!
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@Hex_TunnelBait said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380429#Comment_3380429
For the past several weeks, I have had killers tunnel directly off-hook in at least 40% of my survivor matches. I play mostly on the survivor side, so maybe I just play more survivor matches which would naturally lead to me seeing more instances of it. Either way, the BT and Haste do not stop it.
Not unhooking in the killer's face is also not always up to the survivors. If a killer is camping the hook - which also happens very often in my experience - then survivors may have no choice but to do an unsafe unhook. And especially in solo queue, where survivors often lack the coordination needed for a safe unhook against a camping killer.
I would definitely consider DH an anti-tunnel perk given that it gives a survivor something to defend themselves if the killer waits out the incredibly short BT. Clearly from my low number of posts, I'm new to this forum so I don't know what people have said in the past about whether DH is an anti-tunnel perk. But I'd appreciate not having my posts condescended as "I guess nobody could come up with a better argument against the changes" simply because you haven't heard it described that way before.
Anywho, DH change bad.
You said it yourself, "directly off-hook" and "survivors often lack the coordination needed". People are unhooking in front of the killer, and they need to have SWAT like voicecomms to be able to do a body block when someone is unhooking. This problems was there long ago, and DH and healing changes or not they would still be problems because those problems are created by the players, not the balancing of the game.
And don't get it personal, but the last posts in this forum complaining about the DH change are all about how it would make tunneling worst somehow, something that was never said in any point before when someone was saying DH needed a nerf as far as I know. If it was you who come up with it, well, you are simply wrong.
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Many things that you said, if not all of them, are result of how you and the people you are matched with play the game. Increased healing times would not have any effect on any of that because it wasn't related to the healing time in the first place. I'm also not good at looping, that's why I have a gen repair build and play in a most stealthy way the games I do as survivor. So, to answer your question: Adapt to the game. Don't pretend for the game to adapt to you.
BTW, funny that you play 50:50 but has nothing to say about the regression perks nerf they also announced. Should they not apply those changes either, or the only we don't like are the healing ones?
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@Emeal said:
Exhausting player base???? These are the most refreshing changes in a long age.
And the most balanced (at least since I started playing). But even if killers would also be nerfed, they're going to nerf survivors so the changes are trash and they don't know what they are doing, of course.
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@Hex_TunnelBait said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379944#Comment_3379944
>> Why would I go after the person who just unhooked? 3 hits to down again versus 2 hits to down is simple math.
Yes, that is the point. This will incentivize tunneling.
Basekit BT only provides endurance for 7 seconds or so, so the killer can simply wait that out and then immediately re-down the survivor. DH used to be an option to protect the unhooked survivor if the killer waits out BT, but now it's dependent on whether that survivor had a prior unhook to activate the perk.
Given that DH now can't be reliably used off-hook and gen regression perks are getting gutted, a lot of killers are going to tunnel even more because A) no active DH makes it even easier than before, B) its going to take longer to get an unhooked survivor healed, leaving them vulnerable for longer, and C) making the game a 3v1 will be an efficient way to offset the loss of gen regression perks.
Basekit BT also provides 10 seconds of Haste, meaning that unless you are there to hit the unhooked survivor the moment he touch ground most of the time it's not convenient to tunnel because the chase would be longer than necessary as that survivor have enough time not only to gain distance, but get to any loop they want. Also, in all the games I played as survivor I didn't see the sheer amount of tunneling everybody is claiming in this forum. There are some games, but most of the time the killer don't tunnel.
So, stop unhooking in front of the killer, using that BT boost to do a block or healing under the hook and you would see how tunneling is not such a problem. In fact, if anything the change to DH would incentivize people to not just unhook for the sake of it, but try to do a safe unhook and not literally kill your partner because the killer is in front of them and don't give a damn about the Survivor's Morals Rulebook.
Also, funny how DH never was an anti-tunneling perk, no one never defended it because its anti-tunneling utilities, but know everybody says that the problem with DH changes is that tunneling would be now a bigger problem as DH was detrimental to fight against it. Nobody could come up with a better argument to argue against the change, I guess.
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@BenSanderson55 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379614#Comment_3379614
Yeah it is, the irony is not lost on me so I came here to cry to try and balance the crying, this forum is very killer biased. I play soloq so killers crying is a joke any decent killer can get a 2k+ vs soloq (the majority of dbd matches). What happens is bad killers cant beat soloq then cry, decent killers get 4ks constantly vs soloq, mmr rises they get swfs all the time, lose, cry.
They already nerfed COH several times as well. With basekit healing being 24 seconds you're going to get a lot of DCs especially with sloppy butcher, only the tryhard survivors will remain eventually and guess what killer cry lol.
PS If you still don't believe me that this forum is killer biased count the number of negative or contrarian responses I get to people agreeing or even somewhat receptive to me. Your reply and others from my OP was all killer biased replies.
this forum is very killer biased
With this alone, there's no need to keep reading any of your posts.
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@mr_Beast_Artist said:
I don’t understand why some kind of perk should punish you if you took it. Decrease the reward and remove negative values.
0=0%
1=10%
2=20%
3=30%
4=40%
5=50%
Everything is logical and it will be easier for new players to understand how it works.
"Decrease the reward". Proceeds to give the same reward with the exact same low effort and conditions...
The problem isn't the "+15%" on skillcheck done, the problem is the perk gives you up to 50% of insta-healing by just doing normal skillcheck. That's why it "punish" you by starting negative, because it is insane strong the moment you level it up. You want the "punishment" out? The perk should be balanced in any other way.
I don't know how this is so hard to understand.
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@EvilSerje said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3374678#Comment_3374678
Of course you won't because you already start to contradict yourself. Like "First, nobody said "top tier tournament" balancing", but in your first comment your words was "Games need to be balanced around the "extreme" end of the bar".
To stop this fruitless arguing, I just leave something to think about, mostly for other people. Getting better at the game is super great and it should be that way. But not to the tournament level. And definetely it shouldn't be onesided. I have 1.5K hours, if Steam don't lie, and I have very big problems as survivor. Sadly, half of the time I have to play survivor, every match is always a tryhard pain and complete unfun experience with win rate 1/10. How many hours I need more to git gud? 1000? 10000? Why killer experience is quite the opposite: manageble, fun and controllable? SWF, bully squads, coordinated teams, you name it. Yeah, I lose sometimes, but who said I have to win 100% of time. Maybe killer-players should be better too?
Main idea is: now killers getting to upper-middle MMR (either by just playing or skyrocket by abusing cheap tactics) and stuck with skilled players because they don't belong there. If we imagine that BHVR will go crazy and buff killers, it will end up in getting ALL killers to Ayrun/JRM level, and they will still be complaining "why cannot I make a single hit? It's so unfair, make killer speed 6m/s!" Where on casual (aka MAJORITY of playerbase) level it will be literally unplayable on survivor side. It mostly is already, what I see.
Dude, reread the comments and you would see who talked about "extremes" and what he, and then me, was referring too. The only one that said that the "extreme" is "top tier tournament" was you, and now you want me to justify something that you said. I said what I said, I keep saying the same, I didn't contradict myself in any point.
Then you proceed to again spew random things without any coherence and thinks you made some grand point here, when in reality you only have shown your bias. Who said the killer experience is "manageable, fun and controllable" (whatever that means) and why it has anything to do with what I said? And yes! Killers should also get better. What makes you think that I wasn't referring to also killers with anything I said? And your experience is a "tryhard pain and complete unfun" one because you are playing a competitive game (NOT in a tournament sense, but in the PvP "playing to win over the other side" sense) and people are going to play to win and get better at the game! And you should be making your own fun, not depending on others to worry about you having it! Crazy, I know.
Seriously dude, do what you said and simply "stop this fruitless arguing", because you are only making it worst with each post.
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@Nos37 said:
"It is a token perk because it's only condition is doing something that you would already do in the first place." @Batusalen
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Glad you brought this up.
Save the Best for Last is a token system that gets tokens from something the killer already does in the first place.
That means that the devs should either remove the starting penalty from Autodidact, or they should make the successful hit recovery slower than the baseline until the killer has a couple tokens of STBFL.
Yeah, because it is totally comparable gaining a 30% reduction in cooldown when you would also be slowed down and the survivor would be speed up in a successful hit, to heal 50% of a health state by doing a simple skill check that even someone with 5 minutes of total gameplay can do. Exactly the same thing, without any doubt!
Also, STBFL has an extra condition and you can lose up to half of your tokens if you decide to down the obsession, so you have to build it up again. How many tokens do you lose when you miss an skill check with Autodidact? Oh, that's right! None! Not that you would miss an skill check in the first place, but yeah.
And what other condition Autodidact has? Right, the answer is none again. Come on, dude.
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@DEMONANCE said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373873#Comment_3373873
hmmmm you seem to have some problems and a sad mentality probably got teabagged a lot or something and it hurt your feelings and i am really not it in the mood to argue i should have just specifically addressed the other guy that was my bad.
Of course, it's not that you don't have any argument to make. You just "aren't in the mood"! That's why you just took the time to insult me instead of answer or simply not say anything more.
Nothing to be sorry about! It happens to the best, it can happen to you for sure.
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@DjEnderFox107 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/368355/gens-should-be-increased-to-100-110s
I mentioned in another post of adding a new entity that would block fully repaired generators for 5 minutes or however it needs to be to be balance and then killers can damage and regress that generator to slow down the match and make survivors use perks or items like the map to remember and head back to those generators. I can see an counter agreement being that this would cause the match to last forever but you can add features like those generators get a haste to repair speed and a slower regression speed.
That would not only solve nothing, as right now survivors can do the 5 gens in those 5 minutes, but only generate more problems and frustrations. It will be like letting survivors revive a fully sacrificed survivor. Sorry, but not a good idea.
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@EvilSerje said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3374584#Comment_3374584
For some reason, very shortsided point of view. If game is balanced around top-tier tournament players, who will play it? It will die faster than mayfly. Good example: Quake Champions. What needs to be done is finetune MMR, because that is the only way to match good players and casual ones with their respective opponents.
More of that, giving feedback is absolutely great, but how you determined what "complain" and what is a "real problem"? In your very example with Nurse you say there no need to improve? Why? I saw how Ayrun loop Nurse like there is no tomorrow. Another example: OP cry that gens fly and he need to camp and tunnel. I clearly see that author cannot see reason and consequence (gens flying because survivors has nothing else to do against camper). Better watch on YT how killers deal on high MMR, for example, even against genrush squads (real genrush, not what many talking about, most of cry-killers never seen real genrush squads).
And finally, why "we people" (I don't know who is "we" and is it some disregarding address) need to stop ustin "casual"? I'm not a tournament player, never will be, I bought a game and I want to play. Where is designated requirements that game only available for pro-top-tier players? And why it is not applied to other side?
So balance on extremes when on high MMR killer (where he doesn't belong, but skyrocketed there with cheesy tunnel/camp) get gens done in 3 minues to 10 minutes, on low MMR gens will never be done. 95% of players won't dedicate 10K hours to be able to play. Very silly idea to kill the game.
Sorry, but I'm not going to answer the sheer amount of strawmans and "off topic" arguments you wrote there. I would only say:
but how you determined what "complain" and what is a "real problem"?
In this forum? Whoever wants to give an argumented opinion of why it is a real problem or not. For real? BHVR, or at least is what they should do, not just listen to the cries of people.
gens flying because survivors has nothing else to do against camper
Gens always fly the moment 4 survivors, SWF or not (thanks to the Status HUD Icons) coordinate a little to do them, more so if some of them bring gen progression perks and tools. And this have being one of the biggest issue with the game since at least two chapters now. That's why it is a problem.
If game is balanced around top-tier tournament players, who will play it?
First, nobody said "top tier tournament" balancing. What I said is not balancing it around casual players. And would play it the people that really enjoy the game and want to adapt to get good at it, not the entitled players that want the game to adapt for them so they can play however they like and still win.
95% of players won't dedicate 10K hours to be able to play
Nobody said you have to need to employ 10k hours to start being good at the game. But even now you need to have a certain skill level if what you want is win games, and if you don't work to gain it it's your fault and only you. And that wouldn't be a problem if those people didn't want for the game to compensate for them not wanting to be good at it, like I already said (in reality it wouldn't be a problem if BHVR stopped listening to this kind of players, but oh well).
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@BlueHorkew said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3374503#Comment_3374503
Yeah, bhvr loves doing extra work. They have tons of time and all their ideas never create issues or need to be tested.
Even tho BT is in the game for years and they are probably comfortable with how it works.
But sure, believe that they will do crazy base kit changes like that because of 1 perk. And they are usually very quick at responding to problems
If it was other kind of thing, I would agree with you. But add a new buff to the game that it is already done?...
- Ctrl + C, Ctrl + V to copy the current "EnduranceBuff" effect.
- Change the name of the copied "EnduranceBuff" to "TunnelProtectionBuff".
- Change the line of code that applies "EnduranceBuff" on unhook so it applies "TunnelProtectionBuff".
- Make changes to "EnduranceBuff".
- Build it and put it in a PTB (for more than a week if possible) to see how the changes affect the game.
- If it will go live, make a new icon, change it and put the update in the live servers.
Yeah, a lot of "extra work", indeed. If it is any harder than that, they should seriously start refactoring their code.
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@EvilSerje said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3374493#Comment_3374493
You mean it should be available to 1% of playerbase? Well done! Welcome to BHVR planning team! I'm sure it would be very beneficial.
I have 2K hours and still escape 1 time of 10 (don't have any problems with killer, though). Probably I'm that poor guy that don't have any intention to be better and blame anything but themselves. Like too fast gens, t-bags, broken map layout, DH, comms,.... Wait.... Oh, right....
Then you are the perfect example of why you can't balance a game taking in count the casual players. If they balanced the game taking in count your skill level so you can escape more times, the people that are escaping 70-80% of the time would escape even more as they would have it more easy. I think it isn't so hard to understand.
And one thing is talking and giving feedback around genuine problems the game may have, other thing is losing because you can't or won't do better and complain about the balance. For example: I go against the Nurse like I go against any other killer, she use her power to teleport to me and hit me everytime I want to loop her at a pallet. The only conclusion is that Nurse power is broken and need to be nerfed, not that I need to learn how to play against her and get better at the game.
So, you people need to stop using the "casual SoloQ players" as an argument for BHVR to do or not do needed balance changes (like the ones being discussed in this thread) thinking it is a valid point to make.